Captain America: Brave New World (2025) – MCUniverse

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[00:02:30] Hello and welcome to the MC Universe with Comics vs. a Lorehounds podcast. I'm Alicia. And I'm Jean. And this is our reaction to the newest MCU movie, Captain America Brave New World. We'll start with our spoiler-free hot takes for anyone who hasn't seen the movie yet and wonders if they should, and then give you a warning and a commercial break before we get into our spoilery breakdown.

[00:02:53] But still, we reserve the right to talk about spoilers from any Marvel comic or MCU movie or TV show that has come before. So you've been warned. Stick around until the end for news about the network and a chance to be part of future podcast discussion. And yeah, so we are gathered here today to talk about Captain America Brave New World. Oh, it's like a funeral. It was supposed to feature a funeral, but it kind of felt like it. Anyway.

[00:03:21] Anyway, so originally this movie is called New World Order. They changed that for political reasons. Don't disagree. It is technically the fourth Captain America film after the first Avenger in 2011, The Winter Soldier in 2014, and Civil War in 2016. But it's a new cap, and you don't really have to have seen any of these because this one's actually more of a direct sequel to The Incredible Hulk from 2008.

[00:03:50] That's the one where Edward Norton played the Hulk. And Falcon and the Winter Soldier, which became Captain America and the Winter Soldier by the end in 2021. And yeah, we're going to be talking about this as if people haven't seen the trailer. So we're not going to talk about things with Ross's character at the end because the trailer does include major spoilers. But Jean, what's the log line for this?

[00:04:15] So Sam finds himself in the middle of an international incident after meeting with President Thaddeus Ross. He must soon discover the reason behind a nefarious global plot before the true mastermind has the entire world seeing red. And there we are. So spoiler-free hot takes, what did you overall think of this film, Jean? I have issues with the film.

[00:04:44] I've got issues with Cap. You don't say. Yeah, I've got issues with Cap. I'm not saying this was, you know, a terrible movie because it wasn't terrible. But just some of the choices that they made in regards to Captain America's character, the reason of his entire existence in this movie is just, to me, felt wrong.

[00:05:12] And that's, and I just can't get away from it. I can't get away from this Captain America not being what I want him to be. What do you want him to be? I want him to be more honest about what the world is like.

[00:05:37] And I understand the change in title because this movie wants to be hopeful, right? But I think they should have kept the title that was original and maybe the movie would have been different. Yeah, but the reason they changed the title is because the phrase New World Order is linked to really extreme right-wing propaganda. So I get that.

[00:06:06] But Brave New World is also the name of a dystopian novel. Yes. So. But I see, when I say it's more hopeful, I see what their attempt to do with the framing of how Captain America sees this world, this universe. And the way he interacts with it. So it is, to me, a more hopeful thing.

[00:06:30] And I just don't, I didn't appreciate, and this is not against Mackie's acting because I thought he did well. But it's more of how they want to have Mackie portrayed a character. And I'm just not down with it. And we'll get into it when we hit the spoilers, but that's my overall thing.

[00:06:56] And I was very disappointed in who Sam Wilson is in this movie and what he kind of represents. Yeah. And I can't get away from it. I just can't. I'm trying to. I try to, but I just can't. And as far as everything else in the movie goes, you know, the action sequences were perfectly fine for me.

[00:07:24] They had some fun moments. There was a lot of, there are some things that don't make sense as to who and where certain characters are not. But, again, we'll talk about that in the spoilers. So there were things that I did not understand why, you know, were being withheld almost.

[00:07:51] You know, like hidden away in some pocket universe. And it just didn't feel right to me. I thought Thaddeus, you know, General Ross was really good. I thought Harrison Ford was fine. I had thoughts that he wouldn't be. I didn't know what to expect from him in the role. And I thought he did fine.

[00:08:18] So I enjoyed his Thaddeus Ross. I don't think it did a disservice to the character or he did a disservice to the character. Um, there are, there's one particular character I had no affinity for. I don't know why she was in the movie at all. Yeah. I think I know who you mean. Yeah. Oh, wait, I'm not sure. There's actually two options. Yeah, there's two options. But then, you know, there's one that I was just like, what is she doing here?

[00:08:48] Why is she here? Does she, yeah. Why does she even exist in this movie? Like, what's the point of having this person, this character involved in any manner? Um, so there are things that I definitely didn't like, but again, just, uh, if you want to take positives, I think they did well with the action sequences. I think some of the, the costuming was, was well done.

[00:09:18] Um, yeah. And that's really, and let me just say, um, I forget the actor's name, but Joaquin was really good. Yeah. Danny Ramirez. Yeah. Thank you. Um, he was really good. I think he was one of the bright spots, um, definitely in this entire film. So I want to see more of that guy, but I don't even know if we're going to see more of that guy. Oh, yeah. Um, I mean, I think, yeah, he's definitely was the best part of this movie.

[00:09:48] So, um, what, what was your theater experience? Very muted. Very muted. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very muted. Yeah. So I ended up seeing this movie a week later than I intended just because of other stuff. Um, and I, uh, I tried to avoid spoilers, but I actually, I just saw no spoilers, which is kind of weird.

[00:10:12] So it just told me that there wasn't buzz, you know, it was just, and the responses that I've seen have been like, yeah, okay. Okay. Um, my theater was also very muted. Um, it livened up at a certain cameo, but that's, yeah, we'll get to that. Uh, I think overall the film looked pretty enough, you know? Uh, there was some really interesting closeup camera work on some of the actors faces that,

[00:10:40] uh, I found noteworthy, but, and I think there was this cherry blossom setting, uh, you know, set in DC during cherry blossom season. And that became part of the plot. And I think that was a good idea, but they just really, it was really clunky the way that they used it, you know? Yeah. And that was kind of the problem with the whole thing felt really cut apart and pasted back together. And then it felt like they left all of the interesting bits on the chopping room floor. Yeah.

[00:11:09] Um, I, I think just, it was just too safe and too corporate. Yeah. That's a great way to put it. That's a great way. I don't know. Sean, have you listened at all to the official Marvel podcast? I have not. No. I mean, I can't, I didn't want to listen to anything until we did. No, I mean, I, I just, I honestly can't really recommend it because it's just very clearly scripted.

[00:11:34] Like there's no personality coming through just very, you know, it feels like AI could have written the podcast and, and use the voices, you know? Um, just, I, I think it's just this extreme want to control things. And that's what I'm feeling in this film also. Wow. Okay. Um, I don't know. It's not, this is not another secret invasion for me, but it's one of my lowest rated MCU movies. Definitely.

[00:12:03] I think I haven't even thought about where I rank it. Yeah. I mean, I, I, you know, I'm, I'm a Marvel girl. Like I, I am kind to MCU movies, but this one actually, I have to be honest, I gave it two stars out of five. So I wouldn't quibble with that. I wouldn't quibble. I might go half a star higher. Two and a half. I thought maybe two and a half, but then I don't know. I was just kind of like, am I even going to remember this? I don't know. Um, I, I did struggle to stay awake a little bit toward the end, uh, despite it being the

[00:12:32] middle of the afternoon when I saw it. Um, but I also have to say, you know, Cap was never one of my favorite characters to begin with. I mean, it's fine. And I'm also, I'm not as bad as you, but I'm also, I'm not like, I'm no Mackie super fan. It's like, he's fine. You know, I've seen him do good things. I'm not saying he doesn't have talents. I'm just not like, uh, you know. Are you not a fan of Mackie's Captain America or Captain America period? Chris Evans, Captain America. I mean, it's not that I'm not a fan of either.

[00:13:02] I just am not like, it's not, you know, yeah, it's just, you know, all these other characters are going to turn my head more. Like when it came to the original, um, Avengers lineup, Captain America is probably my least favorite, not in like a negative way, but just in a, I liked the other ones better way. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. And I feel that way about, about Anthony Mackie too. Like, I don't dislike him, but I just, I don't know. He's fine. Um, I think, okay.

[00:13:31] So the New York times, uh, they wrote the only wisps of tangible political intrigue to be found were either unintended or from allusions to previous subject matter and Falcon and the winter soldier. And I think that's spot on that. The best bits of this were when they were referring back to the other TV show, which had its own problems, but at least had a bit more, tried to dig a bit more beneath the surface. Yeah, definitely. Oh, let me just say one, one thing.

[00:13:59] The treatment of Carl Lumbee, Isaiah was. Yeah. We're going to get into that for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and there's just, there was so much expository dialogue, which is, again, goes back to what I was saying about this feeling that this is, and we know for a fact, this has been cut apart and pieced back together and just kind of sucked out of the meeting. But as you were saying, yeah, Denny Ramirez who played Joaquin Torres, AKA the new Falcon,

[00:14:29] definitely the best onscreen charisma. I just kept, I was like, please give this man some good lines. Like he's doing his best with what he's got, but come on, we can do better for him. Um, okay. But now that we've shat upon it, me especially, I guess, to whom would you recommend seeing this? Like, and would you say see it in theaters or wait for streaming? Oh, you can wait for streaming. And I would only really recommend for Marvel completists.

[00:14:58] Like if you're saying, you know, I have to watch every Marvel movie to fit pieces and get answers to certain things or whatever your reason is, your completists, then yeah, you, you, you watch this movie. Anyone else, this is something you can skip. Yeah. No. Yeah. I, I completely agree. I completely agree. Um, I don't, I think the visuals were decent. Um, yeah, the visuals were fine.

[00:15:26] Uh, but I, I think you can watch it at home and yeah, only really, if you watch all the Marvel stuff, it's not one, like I always think of, you know, for instance, my mom is someone who she doesn't watch all the Marvel stuff, but I'll tell her like, Oh, this one's for you. Watch, you know, watch Agatha, watch, um, uh, Ms. Marvel watch, you know, um, watch Loki, but I'm not going to tell her to watch this one. Right. Uh, just a few production notes, but on this side of the spoiler block.

[00:15:56] So, uh, the director was Julius Ona and he's also the only other thing of his that I've seen is a Cloverfield paradox, which was also wolf, even worse, I would say. So, um, I think though, what really went wrong, you can see on the writing credit side. So the story, uh, story by credits go to first to Rob Edwards and Edwards is known for writing

[00:16:23] like episodes of fresh Prince, uh, the movies, the princess and the frog and treasure planet. Like he is someone I really believe in him. You know, he's a proven entity in the world of writing. Um, and then the story by is also, there's a team of two Malcolm Spellman and Dallin Muson who both worked on Falcon and the, in the winter soldier. That makes sense. Okay. That all makes sense. So that's the story by credits.

[00:16:49] The screenplay by credits is the three of those with two names officially added, uh, Julius Ona, the director's name and Peter glance. And it also, uh, there was reports that Matthew Orton joined for reshoots too. And, um, I think that this last part is where things went wrong is that they were just, I'm sure that the original three writers gave them something of depth to chew on. And then they were told to gut it and they did gut it.

[00:17:18] And I have to note, I think most of those names I said are all black men, except the last two, which are white men. And I feel like there's just a general, we have to tone it all down. We have to tone it all down. You know what I mean? That's why I wanted to get into once we get into the plot. Yeah. A lot of that. Yeah. Um, yeah.

[00:17:42] So, uh, the rotten tomato score is for, for critics, it's 49% for the audience. It's 80%, which I'm honestly surprised by because I haven't heard really many raves. I've heard some people who just love it, but those tend to be the people who are like, it's great. We have another Marvel movie. Aren't we happy? You're like, okay, fair. For that. But what I've, what I've heard from people that it's not, no one is saying it's terrible.

[00:18:10] You know, it's a passable movie. It's just, but you know, for me, I want, I want black Captain America to be more than just a passable movie. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And Metacritic, um, that side isn't so kind. So it's 42 from critics and 4.7 from audiences. So, and that's out of 10, of course. So yeah, this is, but this has been out just over a week and it's already got a box office

[00:18:39] of 210 million as of the 21st of February. That was. So we'll see what the, what happens in the second weekend. You know, there's been some mediocre word of mouth. Will that mean a slump? But yeah, deadline Hollywood reported that the film needs to make 425 million worldwide to break even, um, because the reported budget is 180 million, but then there's all those marketing costs and everything on top of that. So I don't know. What do you think?

[00:19:07] How do you think it's going to do this weekend as we're recording? Um, I don't know if it's going to hit the mark. Mm-hmm. Worldwide because there's, uh, what's the, um, the, the Chinese film. Oh, there's Nezha 2? Mm-hmm. Yes. It's animated film. Mm-hmm. Yeah. The animated film. The first one made over a billion and yeah. Exactly.

[00:19:36] So I think that film is going to keep, um, this film from doing well in that market. Mm-hmm. And that will, you know, affect the worldwide, um, intake. Yeah. That one definitely has better word of mouth, but it's also, it's, yeah. That one's more for, yeah. I don't know. Is this for kids? I guess so. I guess it's not, not for kids. I don't know. I don't know if it's for kids. I mean, it's animated. So yeah, you're probably a lot of kids.

[00:20:04] No, I mean this one, the Captain America, because Nezha is for kids. It's not for kids. Yeah. It's not, it's not a kid movie. No. But that one does get good word of mouth. Um, yeah, but this one, I mean, there was a famously, there was a lots of production turmoil. You heard us talking about that for, uh, at least a year now, I think.

[00:20:27] Um, they were definitely ripping pieces out, moving them around for political reasons or because Kang changed or because of like the shifting stuff in the Marvel multiverse storyline. Um, or yeah, there was famously a bad testing test screening. And then they ended up recording, re filming like a third of the movie or something. Yeah.

[00:20:51] Ona, the director said that the reshoots, the idea was that it was the original version was too heightened with like this, the serpent society. You know, they had Seth Rollins and Rosa Salazar as members of the serpent society. And they decided to make it more grounded. And that's when we got Giancarlo Esposito as Sidewinder. I don't know. I mean, so basically I was worried about this one going in.

[00:21:19] I am not worried about Thunderbolts and Fantastic Four the same way. And, uh, I think we should keep in mind that the last thing Marvel did was Agatha. So we should take the lesson, give creators more creative control. But yeah. How are you feeling about Thunderbolts and Fantastic Four? Yeah, we haven't gotten those type of reports for those two projects that we got for this one. Right.

[00:21:41] As far as, you know, reshoots, rewrites, you know, and reframing and this entire hodgepodge of, you know, let's put this piece here, put this piece there. We're not getting that from about the Thunderbolts or about Fantastic Four. So that gives me a lot more hope that what you just said, give creators creative control is actually what they did with those two movies.

[00:22:11] We can see the results of not doing that. What happens in a film? Yeah. Right. We've already seen what happens when you do that in a TV show. Um, but you can see that in this film that way too many cooks were in the kitchen. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And there were, um, reports with Daredevil of extensive reshoots, but everything that we've heard about that, it's, it's for the better, you know?

[00:22:38] Like they were just trying to do too much of a different thing instead of just, and now we'll talk about that a lot more. We're going to be covering Daredevil, but just, they decided to, let's just make this a continuation of the Netflix story that people like. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Any more thoughts on the spoiler-free side? Any final thoughts for people who are considering whether to spend time on this? Nah. No. No.

[00:23:07] I'll say, honestly, you can just listen, Sean and I on the other side of the commercial break, we're going to recap the plot. So if you prefer to experience a story that way, then we got you. We'll, we'll be back in just a moment with that.

[00:23:40] Okay. And we are back. This is the spoiler zone, spoilers, spoilers. And just to make it as spoilery as possible, we are about to recap the plot with the help of some amended wiki material. Thank you for saving us a bunch of time. Sean, do you want to kick us off? Sure. So five months after Thaddeus Ross is elected president of the United States, he sent Sam Wilson and Joaquin Torres, the new Captain America and Falcon, respectively, to Mexico.

[00:24:08] To stop the illegal sale of classified items stolen by the Serpent Society or rogue special ops teams led by Sidewinder. They recover the items, but Sidewinder escapes. Ross invites Wilson and Torres to a summit with world leaders at the White House and Wilson accepts on the condition that long done wrong black Captain American prototype Isaiah Bradley is also invited.

[00:24:31] During the summit, Ross explains that a new metal adamantium has been discovered on Celestial Island, which was formed when the Celestial Teemut emerged in the Indian Ocean in the underrated film Eternals. Everybody watch that instead. The recovered items were the first refined samples of the metal and were stolen from a Japanese mining operation. To avoid an arms race, Ross proposes a treaty to govern adamantium's mining and distribution.

[00:24:57] As he is talking, the song Mr. Blue plays and causes several men, including Bradley, to begin shooting at Ross and other dignitaries. Apprehended by Ross's head of security, former black widow Ruth Bat-Saraf, the men regain their senses and deny any knowledge of the attack. While investigating, Sam Wilson is ambushed by Sidewinder and captures him.

[00:25:22] Torres tracks a call on Sidewinder's phone to a hidden black site in West Virginia called Camp Echo One. Ross tries to salvage the treaty, but the Japanese government blames him for the theft of their adamantium and the subsequent White House attack. Ross realizes that the mastermind behind these events is Dr. Samuel Stearns, who gained advanced intelligence after being exposed to Bruce Banner's blood during the abominations rampage through Harlem.

[00:25:50] That was in the Hulk movie in 2008, 2009. Ross imprisoned Stearns at Camp Echo One, publicly blamed him for the abominations actions, and promised to release him if Stearns helped him advance to the presidency. Wilson and Torres find Stearns and learn how he used technology and the song Mr. Blue to control minds. He escapes while they are fighting mind-controlled soldiers.

[00:26:18] Batsaraf investigates Camp Echo One herself and helps Wilson and Torres. Wilson's military friend, comics character Dennis Dunphy, has Sidewinder in custody, and Wilson learns enough from Sidewinder to deduce Stearns' plans to destroy Ross's reputation. Wilson, Torres, and Batsaraf go to Celestial Island, where Ross and the Prime Minister of Japan are racing to claim ownership of adamantium. Stearns controls the minds of two American pilots who attack the Japanese fleet,

[00:26:46] and Wilson and Torres intercept the planes and convince the Japanese to stand down. Torres is critically injured in the fight. Ross tells Wilson that he is dying of heart failure and had Stearns develop pills that have prolonged his life. Ross refused to release Stearns for fear that he would no longer make the pills, leading to Stearns' anger and plans for revenge. Sam Wilson is consoled by his friend Bucky Barnes.

[00:27:13] Stearns kills Dunphy, who discovered the pills have been adding gamma radiation to Ross's body, and surrenders himself to Wilson. Stearns' arrests and connections to Ross are publicly revealed while the latter is at a press conference. Ross loses control of his emotions and transforms into a red hulk, destroying part of the White House. Wilson attempts to calm him down by reminding him of visits to Washington, D.C.'s cherry blossom trees with his estranged daughter, Betty.

[00:27:41] The two fight until they're exhausted and Ross reverse to normal. Later, Bradley is exonerated. Cap invites him and a recovering Torres to join the Avengers, and the treaty is ratified. Ross resigns and has himself incarcerated at the RAF, where Wilson and Betty visit him.

[00:28:04] So, we got a couple small pieces of feedback I thought we could use as a framework to begin to talk about this film. So, we heard from Kevin W. He said, just out of the cinema, you definitely don't need to see it on IMAX. Just shoot him below the shield. I definitely know there's a bigger meaning behind it, but just take the serum. Let's pause there.

[00:28:24] What did you think about the way the film handled his relationship, the fact that he's not a super soldier Captain America and his feelings about that? Yeah. The idea that he shouldn't take the serum that Bucky put out made no sense to me. It makes no sense to me. Number one, in the comics, Sam Wilson does have a superpower. Right?

[00:28:55] He may not be as strong, but he does have a superpower. He's connected to all sorts of, to all winged animals, birds. Right? Mm-hmm. So, he's not just a regular human. He is advanced. He is superpowered in that way. Which aids him in his fight against other superpowered beings. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm.

[00:29:19] So, the idea that he shouldn't take the serum, especially when he's not an inventor like Tony Stark is, who can, you know, go into his lab and come up with different forms of armor that will allow him to take on these characters, makes absolutely no sense.

[00:29:38] He's dependent on others to have any shot of doing anything against these sorts of, this sort of level of, you know, problem. Mm-hmm. Why wouldn't he take the serum? I mean, I found it interesting. I mean, it was, this was much better addressed in Falcon and the Winter Soldier.

[00:30:03] And, and I do also find it interesting just to show, you know, that he is at a disadvantage, which they also show through the Isaiah character, just because of racism. You know, he's at a disadvantage in that way. And this is a way to represent it. But I just think they did not handle this discussion at all well in, in this movie. And even he's like, oh, I should have taken the serum. And like, okay, I don't know. Like, what are, what's the point we're even making with that now?

[00:30:34] That, there is no point to it. In a way, yeah. In a way, I'm glad it didn't happen in this movie though, because I'd rather be handled in another where it's handled better. That's fair. That's fair. But to even bring it up and to suggest that he shouldn't, you know, as, as Bucky claimed, like some sort of moral play, like to bring hope. Like, what is he, a magical Negro? No.

[00:31:00] You know, for, for those who don't understand, you know, when I say magical Negro, he's the black guy that, you know, all of a sudden, you know, drops in and makes white people's, you know, existences make sense, makes them better. Or gives them, teaches them a lesson, you know, to make them better people. No, he's a fucking superhero. He should be, you know, he should be a superhero.

[00:31:25] And if he has the opportunity to, it's like telling Black Panther, don't take the, the, the heart rate curve. Mm-hmm. You don't know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's, it's, it was, it seems really lame and contrived, the fact that he hadn't in this film. So. To try to keep him human. Mm-hmm. As if that makes him more relatable to other humans. Yeah. It's bullshit. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:31:52] I guess, I mean, I do have to say though, I thought his, the beginning, his, his, his, his, sorry, not adamantium. Now I'm thinking the other metal. Vibranium. Vibranium. His vibranium wings at the beginning. That was really cool in the way like, you know, he can fly and also protect himself. That was really cool. Absolutely. But now he has to go back to the, to the Wakandans and ask for another suit. Yeah. Yeah. Because he can't make them himself. No, it's true.

[00:32:21] That's, that's my whole point. You know, he, he is dependent on others. Whereas, you know, if given the opportunity to become superpowered in order to combat these sorts of, of, of villains, these sorts of, you know, superpowered beings, why wouldn't he take it? Yeah. How would you feel if something like completely different from the comics, if he just sprouted real superpowered wings?

[00:32:51] I'm cool with that. Make him a mutant. I don't care. Yeah. I'm cool with that. I would be. Make him angel. I'd be okay with that too. But it just, it didn't sit right with me that whole conversation about him not taking it. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe if they framed it in another way, I would accept it, but I can't accept it the way that it was framed. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So Ken continued. Where's Banner? The love of his life is back.

[00:33:21] And why didn't Bucky stick around? Yeah. We're definitely going to get into, well, I mean, what do you think about the fact that Bruce Banner didn't show up? Again, both of these points that Ken makes about Bucky and Banner were the same things that I was asking throughout the film.

[00:33:42] Like, why wouldn't this idea that Bucky Barnes, you know, who is effectively in these stories, one of his closest friends, right? Along with Steve Rogers. Mm-hmm. Sees him fighting a Hulk. Mm-hmm. And says, nah, he's got that. He got it. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[00:34:12] He's got it. Yeah. I mean, I think they just didn't want to bring in anyone to detract from Sam, but I think they should have just given Sam a stronger story instead, you know? Like, yeah. But that, again, that doesn't hold water for me because just because you're bringing in Bucky or someone else doesn't mean it distracts. It adds to. It can add to, as we've seen in other Marvel films. Yeah.

[00:34:40] I think it just kind of shows a lack of confidence. Absolutely. Yeah. Ken ends. Anyway, didn't hate it. Just a Marvel movie. Thunderbolts better be good. Ken W. We have faith in Thunderbolts, Ken. Yeah. Yeah, we have faith in Thunderbolts. And Ian said, not much to say. Saw it on the weekend. It's an average film. Definitely in the bottom rung of MCU films. But I feel some of the reaction calling it the worst MCU film has been OTT. What do you think?

[00:35:10] What are your worst MCU films in mind? I mean, yeah. I don't think it's worse than Thor Dark World. I like Thor Dark World, actually. I know you do. Yeah. So I think it's worse than Thor. I know you do. I wouldn't even. I mean, there's other ones I'm thinking about, like Quantumania. I don't know. It's like on par with Quantumania and the Thor 4. Love and Thunder? Love and Thunder.

[00:35:40] No, Ragnarok is a top one. Ragnarok was a great film. But Love and Thunder, you're right. Yeah, Love and Thunder is near the bottom. Quantumania is near the bottom. This one's near the bottom. I don't think it's worse than Black Widow. Black Widow had such great chemistry that places it significantly higher than those other ones I said. Yeah, I mean, I always would crap on the old Hulk movie, the one that this is a sequel to.

[00:36:09] But to be honest, that one's grown on me a little bit. Agree. Agree. For me, it's not at the bottom of my rung. It's not the worst MCU film for me. It's a contender for being the worst MCU film, but that's a high bar. You know? Right. In general, I like MCU films. Right. So it's not... I've watched worse films within the last week than this one. Just to put it in perspective. Are you talking about your Oscar preps?

[00:36:39] Yeah. Well, now I'm in the extended death race. So, yeah, I'm watching like... Oh, man. Brutalist, anyone? I think Brutalist is definitely a better film than this. But it is three and a half hours long. It is unnecessarily long. Even I know there's a break in between. But then I was sat there in the theater twiddling my thumb for 15 minutes. Oh, gosh. Anyway. Okay. So I guess we've kind of...

[00:37:06] So Anthony Mackie as Cap Sam Wilson. I guess we've kind of talked about that. It's just... It's not that I don't think he's capable of doing it. I think he was much closer to it in Falcon and the Winter Soldier than in this film. To nailing that. Yeah. I think he nailed what they wanted him to nail. But my whole thing with Captain America being black.

[00:37:34] And so Sam is very... Let's get on with the world as it is. Mm-hmm. Right? Like, I'm a symbol of something that is higher and more dear than the hardships

[00:38:02] that the people who look like me have gone through. Mm-hmm. Right? If this is not my thinking, because MLK was much more radical than people give him credit for. Right? Mm-hmm. But this is almost making a clear line with, let's say, Malcolm X on one hand, MLK on the other hand. Right?

[00:38:30] With respectability and revolutionary. Mm-hmm. And I feel like Captain America, Sam Wilson, has bought into the respectability. Mm-hmm. Like, I am black, I am Captain America, and I show what this country can be. Despite its faults, I am here. Right.

[00:38:57] Without ever really tackling its faults. Mm-hmm. Yeah. When he's talking to Isaiah, and Isaiah is telling him about the faults of this country, Sam has a look on his face like, yeah, but. There's no yeah, but, my brother. Mm-hmm. We can't, yeah, but this. You know what I mean? You can't just say or behave as if, well, things are better now because look at where I'm at.

[00:39:28] Mm-hmm. Yeah, look at where you're at. But, to deny the history, which I feel, I feel is being done in the MCU because Rhodey is much the same way as a character. Mm-hmm.

[00:39:45] Their blackness is often, to me, not central to their character. Okay. So, I'm watching Sam, and I'm watching Isaiah, and Isaiah is telling him, how can I believe in this country? They kept me in jail for the better part of my life. Mm-hmm. They experimented on me. They did all these terrible things on me.

[00:40:14] And Sam was just like, well, yeah, but look at where you're at now. No. Mm-hmm. No. It's not where, look at where you're at now. How do you deal with the things that happen? How do you go forward with those things that happen to people and are still happening to people now? Mm-hmm. I remember in the show when he was, you know, I think he went to the bank, and he only got the loan because he was capped, because he was shouting.

[00:40:44] Mm-hmm. Right? And this is the reality. Right. That he's almost denying in this film. Mm-hmm. Because he's Captain America. Yeah. Yeah. And it becomes this, you know, we'll get to the Thaddeus Ross character, but it becomes him like kind of deciding to sell out and suck up to a very questionable president. Yes. Mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah.

[00:41:14] Not on board. And it's so, and the modern day, the current Sam Wilson in the comics who is Captain America is not this. Mm-hmm. I have issues with the first two issues of this current run. Mm-hmm. I won't get into it right now. I won't get into it. Mm-hmm. But I got some, I got some questions about what direction they're taking Cap in right now. Mm-hmm.

[00:41:39] But for the most part, since he's become Captain America in the comics, his Blackness has been central to the character. Mm-hmm. What it means, what it represents, the hardships that come with being a Black Captain America, comes with being the Black Captain America. Mm-hmm. Yeah. How do you get past that? How do you get past the history?

[00:42:05] How do you get past, you know, everything that this country has done to Black folk and still wear the flag as your uniform? Right. And ask that. Mm-hmm. This movie does not ask that. No. We don't talk about that. How can you not talk about it? I mean, I have a lot of questions because he did a lot of good character work with him in Falcon and the Winter Soldier.

[00:42:33] And obviously, all this stuff with Isaiah and talking through all these things that you're talking about, but also just showing him at home in Louisiana working on his boat with his sister, Sarah. And I'm like, well, where's Sarah? Why are we introducing these other random characters when you already built up, you know, why? His family. Mm-hmm. Yeah, his family. And we'll talk about some other characters. I'm just like, what are we even doing here? And why are we not?

[00:42:58] It just, this should have been a continuation building upon the Falcon and the Winter Soldier. And I give Falcon and the Winter Soldier a lot of passes because of all the COVID nonsense that affected us. This film does not get that pass from me. No, I agree. And this is, and yet the Falcon and the Winter Soldier, despite all the COVID stuff, was a better story. Was a better, you know, it actually grappled with things. It actually, yeah, attempted to do some things.

[00:43:26] And whereas this just feels like, how do we connect the dots? Give, you know, like we write moments on paper. Like we're going to have Red Hulk show up at the end. How do we connect the dots to get there? And not really thinking about going on a journey. Just like checking off a list. And not going on a journey with this character is sacrilegious. It makes absolutely no sense.

[00:43:50] How you could have a movie and not do that sort of character exposition. Yeah. Is mind-boggling to me. Yeah. Like how you don't have that introspection from this character in this time is a major miss. It's a major miss. This is not just a, you know, a regular MCU movie.

[00:44:20] Right? Right. This is not some Asgardian coming down. This is not some gamma-irridated monster. Right? Mm-hmm. This is a Black man putting on a suit that has the American flag and calling himself Captain America. How you don't explore that and what it means to him and to those around him is baffling. Yeah.

[00:44:50] And he was outshone in his own movie by The New Falcon, by Joaquin Torres, Danny Ramirez. Because, like I have in the notes, stole the show whenever he was on screen. So is that why they had to hospitalize slash sideline him? I guess. That's funny. But it's also, we see, I guess, like the idea is supposed to be that Sam is feeling really protective of Joaquin. Because Joaquin also is not a superhero.

[00:45:19] I mean, you know, he's not superpowered in this. Right. So he, and then this terrible thing happens, then why are we not, we didn't, they didn't really explore then how he feels about, like he was protective of him before that. And then this terrible thing happens to him where he's hospitalized. That didn't pay off in any way in affecting Sam's story arc. Right. It just felt, I don't know, like why did, why did we do that?

[00:45:47] Like, did you just put him in the hospital so that there's a reason why he doesn't show up in the next whatever? Yeah. And then, yeah, I know we have to talk about Isaiah Bradley played by Carl Lumbly. So he was, you know, you've, you've talked a bit about him, but he basically is like, I don't want to go back to jail. And then Sam's like coaxes him into going back to jail and he spends half the movie in jail.

[00:46:18] Do you know how pissed off I was? Yeah. And this goes back to my, to my, you know, talking about who Sam Wilson is in this movie. How could you tell this man this? Oh, that he has to go back to jail. How do you do that? Even Captain America, Steve Rogers was like, you got taking my best friend to jail.

[00:46:47] You got to be the, get the fuck out of here with that. I'm going on the run with my boy. I'm going on the run with Bucky. Y'all going to have to take me and him down. What are you talking about? Yeah. You would not let them take Bucky to jail. Yeah. And Bucky was a murderer. And he, Captain America, Steve Rogers said, no, you're not doing that to my boy. Yeah. And this Captain America looks at this black man. You have to cooperate.

[00:47:14] Who was wrongly incarcerated for decades and experimented on and looked at him with a straight face and said, yeah, man, you, you, you really got to go back, man. It's the best thing. What the fuck? Yeah. Yeah. What the fuck? I mean, he's gone full collaborator in this film and it feels wrong.

[00:47:39] Speaking of who he's collaborating with, what did you think of Harrison Ford as Thaddeus Ross slash Red Hulk? I thought he did a good job. I thought he was serviceable in the role. You know, I felt his anger towards Sam Wilson. I felt he was as cantankerous as he should have been. And I thought he did a very good portrayal.

[00:48:08] I have no problems with Harrison in this movie. Yeah. He, by the way, is replacing the, this role was previously played by William Hurt, who sadly passed away. So he's stepping into this role. And apparently Harrison Ford really, he wanted to do something Marvel. Like he's the one who's like, let's, let's have a talk and find a role for me. And I think this was a good place to put him. No complaints about him in this role, but I do have complaints about the story they gave him. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's different. He did well with what they gave him.

[00:48:39] Yeah. Yeah. And I was also, I was, you know, I was excited for Liv Tyler to come back as Betty Ross and she did, but it was just like the whole movie is like, oh, real sad about my daughter. Real sad, but we don't even see her until the end. And then there's this whole clunky thing about the cherry blossoms because they used to go look at the cherry blossoms together, but then they don't go look at the cherry blossoms together. He destroys them instead at the end. And it's just like, okay. Okay. Sure.

[00:49:07] Why, why is this like this? Yeah. It felt like they were, you know, using that, the Black Widow song, you know, with, with Bruce Banner, you know what I mean? Like as a way to calm him down, like Black Widow, whatever she did. Yeah. Yeah. The sun's getting real low. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So that, that felt like what they were trying to set up, but it was terrible.

[00:49:36] It was just downright no good. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, she didn't even show up into, I don't know. I was like, is it because I know they filmed, there was supposed to be some sort of funeral scene. So was maybe, was Thaddeus Ross supposed to die in the original version and they decide not to, and I think it would have been a mistake to kill him off because they haven't even really used Red Hulk properly yet. Like, you know, he's supposed to be verbal and stuff and he hasn't got there at this point.

[00:50:06] Yeah, he's not a, he's not a mindless creature. He's, he's smart. He retains everything that Thaddeus Ross has as far as mental capacity. He's able to speak. He's able to strategize. He's, he's Thaddeus Ross, but just a Hulk. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't mind him starting out in this way because, you know, it's his, it's his first transformation and he's confused and enraged and it doesn't have control of his feelings. But then you need to get him there. And then. Yeah.

[00:50:35] It just felt so like. Why wasn't Betty standing, the one standing in front of him telling him to come down? That made no sense. Exactly. Exactly. And I'm, I'm, I guess it must've been because of reshoots or something. Cause it just felt so pasted on at the end where she finally shows up. And then we have this phone call where I'm like, well, that must be because she wasn't available for reshoots. So they just had to literally phone it in. She should have been the one in the middle of the street saying that, you know, calm down, please.

[00:51:05] I love all of that stuff. All that good stuff that you expect. But yeah. We got him talking to Sam and Sam was the one that calmed the nom. I mean, come on, give me a break. Yeah. He hates Sam Wilson. He hates what Sam Wilson stands for. He hates that Sam Wilson is Captain America. Mm-hmm. He hates it. And there should be some. Sam Wilson in the Captain America suit is the one that calms him down? No. Yeah. And there should be some exploration of him. You know, he also hates, he hates Bruce Banner.

[00:51:35] He hates the Hulk. He hates what all that stands for. And there should be some grappling of him becoming the thing that he hates. Yes. Yes. Yeah. None of that. But they, they set something up that I guess is supposed to pay off in future movies. He, uh, he asked Will Sam Wilson to help him reform the Avengers. Where do you think that plot line is going to lead? Nowhere. No. Because I don't think Sam Wilson is going to be the one who reforms the Avengers. No?

[00:52:04] I mean, who do you think will be then? I don't know. I don't know. I'm just not confident in their ability to tell, to give Sam Wilson a strong leading role. I mean, I think the plan is to have him do that. Whether they execute on a higher level remains to be seen. Because, yeah, we know he's going to be in the next two Avengers movies. Um, Doomsday and, uh, Secret Wars.

[00:52:36] Wow. Well, they have to do a whole drastic change. Yeah. To get him to be the leader that they want him to be. Hmm. Because I don't see it from this movie. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So, I think the Thunderbolts, that's named after Thunderbolt Ross. That's a nickname of Thaddeus Ross. But I guess not in this world. Or, uh, there's the asterisk on the Thunderbolts title.

[00:53:04] And they said in the trailer, like, oh, we can't use that name. So, does that have something to do with this? I'm wondering, that's not going to become the Dark Avengers, is it? Um. With the Bucky crossover? I don't think so. I don't think so. Because I don't see how the only, there are kind of villainous characters on the Thunderbolts roster. But not the entire roster.

[00:53:33] Like Dark Avengers, they were all villainous. Right. Right. They were all villains at some point. Yeah. No, I think these are all anti-heroes. But, yeah. Yeah. Who do you think is going to be on Sam Wilson's Avengers? Um. I mean, but that's the thing. Like, so, is it going to be, like, they bring Scarlet Witch back? But then, uh, I don't know. Does it make sense to have Sam Wilson as the leader of, like, Wanda and Vision?

[00:54:03] That's what I'm saying. Let me give you some names. Let me give you some characters. Tell me yes or no. Okay. Okay. Falcon, of course. Yeah. Okay. Uh, Ant-Man. Yeah. I mean, they made references to him in this movie. Captain Marvel? Um, yeah. I mean, I guess she's always, like, she just shows up when she wants to show up. I don't even know if she's a full Avenger. All right. But will she be a full Avenger? That's what I'm asking.

[00:54:34] For when they need a deus ex machina. When? Yeah. Oh, man. You're very contrarian. Shang-Chi. Uh, yeah. Yeah, I think so. Although, I'm still hoping for a West Coast Avengers, which may be, yeah. I don't know. I mean, because I still, you know, Shang-Chi's out in San Francisco, where you have, Vision's going to be out there. Wonder Man's going to be out there. I want a West Coast Avengers.

[00:55:04] Shuri? Yeah. Uh, Shuri. Yeah. Sure. Why not? Banner? Um, yeah. I mean, I guess so. Mm-hmm. At least they already have a relation. They know each other, you know? Star-Lord? I don't know. I don't think so. Okay. Um. Rhodey? War Machine? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, and Ironheart? No, Ironheart's got to be in Young Avengers. Yeah.

[00:55:34] What about Spidey? Spidey? I think I would rather see Spidey in Young Avengers or with the Defenders. What about Daredevil? I mean, again, I think Defenders will be a separate team. Okay. So you, you think, so right now you would say Ant-Man, Falcon, Banner. Shuri. And Shuri. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:56:00] I mean, I don't know because I think, I mean, I don't, I like the idea of them having different teams, but I don't know. Maybe they'll introduce some more. Okay. All right. What about you? Um. Um. I can see Banner. I can see Rhodey. I can see, um, Falcon, of course. Um. Ant-Man. And I can see Carol. Yeah.

[00:56:30] Yeah. Yeah. They're keeping it classic. Yeah. Yeah. And I could also envision a world where after, um, Vision Quest, we get Vision Scarlet Witch. Hmm. Yeah. But I want them to be West Coast Avengers. West Coast Avengers. West. But eventually that, that dissolves too. All right. This is a good spot to take a quick break.

[00:56:57] And when we get back, we're going to talk about the other characters and major moments. Be right back. Okay.

[00:57:21] So this brings us to, I'm sad to report that there are basically two major female characters and they are both the ones that I immediately thought of when you said, why was she even there? So, uh, we're talking about Ruth, Ruth Batsaraf played by Shira Haas and, uh, Layla Taylor played by Zosia Rokamore. And which one did you mean? Ruth Batsaraf. Okay. Okay. Okay.

[00:57:49] So, yeah. In the comics. Hmm. Confusion. Yeah. In the comics, she plays a mutant. She's a mutant. And they made her a black widow here. Probably again, she's another character that was severely cut down upon because she's an Israeli character with Mossad connections in the comics and they're like too controversial. Um, so they just, I feel like they didn't know much what to do with her anymore.

[00:58:20] I, I, whether they knew what to do with her or not, I questioned why she's in the movie at all. Period. Even before. I'm like, you know, we get obscure characters all the time, but this, this felt like that. I'm watching this woman on screen. And I'm like, what's her purpose? Yeah. Yeah. So she brings, what does she bring to this movie? What does she bring to these characters? What is she bringing out of them? What is she? Nothing.

[00:58:49] There was nothing. Here's what I, I think that she, so she plays a mutant, as I said, named Sabra in the comics. And I wonder if this was supposed to be another X-Men seed. And then they decided to back up off of that for various reasons. No, they should have backed all the way to fuck up out of here with that because, because she made no sense in this movie. For me. Yeah.

[00:59:19] Well, I had also, like, I had the same feeling about the other character, Layla Taylor. She was just, it seemed, yeah, who is she? It just seemed like she and Sam know each other, but she came out of nowhere, you know? Like, is she supposed to be replacing Maria Hill since they, you know, oh, I just want to say bad words, killed her off in the show that shall not be named, even though I named it earlier. Yeah. It seems so, like, she must have had a purpose that they cut down on, which is like. But what's the purpose, though?

[00:59:49] What's her relationship to Sam? How did she get to where she's at? Why is she agreeing to work with him? Like, there's so many things that went unanswered, unexplained. And, you know, if you're going to do that to characters, don't put them in the film. Yeah. Yeah. And it's also, it comes back to, like, why, because then they're saying they don't have room for other characters. Like, originally, Elijah Bradley, who is Isaiah's grandson, who we met in Falcon and the Winter Soldier.

[01:00:19] And I'm waiting for them to set up for Young Avengers, these patriots. Why give this screen time to a nothing character that does nothing and seems to play no role instead of building up a character you already have? You already established, right? That people are familiar with. Maybe they didn't want to cut the only two female characters. But again, I point to Sam's sister, Sarah. Where is she? Right. Right. And Maria, bring her back from the dead.

[01:00:47] Give me, you know, LMD Maria. Life model decoy robo Maria. Agree. Yeah. So, okay. All right. The other major characters are the two baddies. We have Giancarlo Esposito as Seth Fulker, or Sidewinder. And Tim Blake Nelson back from the last, from the Incredible Hulk movie as Samuel Stearns, aka the leader.

[01:01:17] Let's start with Sidewinder. He was kind of like the last addition to this film during the reshoots. And he was just sort of like- Unnecessary. They were going to do the whole comic Serpent Society thing, and then they decided like, okay, actually, it's too heightened, as I said, a quote of the director saying. So let's just have Sidewinder be this more grounded version. Unnecessary. Did that work? No, it did not.

[01:01:46] And not because Giancarlo is terrible. No, he's always great. The character is terrible. So, yeah. There's no reason for the character to exist in this movie. Another character. What's the purpose? Yeah. To give up where, you know, Samuel Stearns is. That's the whole purpose of this guy. Yeah. Just to tell Sam where to find Samuel Stearns. Right. That's true. We could do better for Giancarlo in any movie.

[01:02:16] Mm-hmm. Give him something more meaty to do. You know, if you're going to use the Serpent Society, he didn't use them. Don't give me this bullshit. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I guess, yeah, I don't. I guess they wanted to have the tone of Winter Soldier, this grounded tone of espionage. But then don't promise, don't make comparisons to Winter Soldier.

[01:02:42] And then unless you're really feeling good about your film. Right. Don't make those comparisons. Then do this. Right. Right. And, you know, there's some people, I heard people speculating that they added Sidewinder because the leader just wasn't, like, popping as a villain. So when he was introduced, the leader was at first kept in shadow, like Count Orlok was in Nosferatu, which I thought was a wise move.

[01:03:11] But then, can I ask, did your theater respond when he was revealed, when we first saw the brain thing? Nope. My theater burst into laughter. Yeah. It was, the hell is that? Yeah. I mean, I didn't think it was that bad personally, but it was just, I don't know. Yeah. They had other designs that were made into toys. So I don't know. They might have, should have used the other designs. Yeah. The other designs looks more like the comic book where he just has, like, a really big forehead and hair. Yeah.

[01:03:42] And this looks just, like, stupid. Yeah. I mean, I'm kinder to it, but yeah, I can. I must say that the response, that was one of the few times that there was any response in my theater and I didn't feel like it was in support thereof. Yeah. But the one, the best response that I did get in my theater was when Bucky showed up. Although I have to say, but by the time Bucky showed up, I was getting frustrated before that

[01:04:11] because by this time, they've already revealed that this is about mind control. And I'm like, how is nobody mentioning Bucky in, you know, this is a sequel to a story where he was a central character and a huge part of it is about mind control. And now there's some. Yeah. Because there's a Black Widow literally in the movie. Right. Right. Yeah. But on the plus side, well, I mean, first of all,

[01:04:41] okay, let's take a minute to, so Bucky was like the biggest surprise, I think, of the entire film. And it was a disappointment. It was the highlight, but yeah, it was like. It was, you could say it's the highlight, but it's also the disappointment. Mm-hmm. Like. It's a disappointment that it's the highlight. Yes. And also that he was so, he wasn't used really. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It goes back to what we,

[01:05:10] we said earlier. Where were these guys when, you know, he's fighting for his life here? Yeah. He's like, oh, I got a campaign speech to do in North Dakota while Sam is, is in Washington, D.C. fighting for his life? Come on now. Yeah. Yeah. Come on. Yeah. Um, we, we did though finally get recognition of Celestial Island. We've been waiting for that since the Eternals. So that's again where in the,

[01:05:39] in Eternals, there was the Celestial Tiamat. We found out that, um, every planet is basically kind of like an egg for a Celestial and, uh, people live on it and our energy of being alive powers them until basically they're ready to hatch, destroying the planet and everyone on it and a new Celestial is born. But the Celestials think that's for the greater good. So, and then, yeah, they ended up killing him in Eternals, but as he was emerging, so we end up basically

[01:06:08] with this part of a head and a hand reaching out of the Indian Ocean, uh, which is why Japan and India are the ones fighting with the U.S. over Adamantium. Um, what did you think about this whole Celestial Island and how it was used in this film? Yeah, I'm just glad that we got a recognition of the fact that there's a big hand sticking out of the ocean on the planet Earth or new mountain range or whatever, however you want to call it. I'm just happy that they finally admitted it.

[01:06:38] Um, as far as the claim that Adamantium is stronger than Vibranium, I think it does a nice, um, setup to have Wakanda and the other countries of the world on an arms race. Um, so that was, you know, I noted that when they, when Ross said it. Um, and I thought it was, it was a perfectly fine, you know, bit of

[01:07:08] storytelling to use that as a conflict point. It made sense to me. Hmm. So, about Adamantium, so if, I mean, the fact that Tiamat the Celestial turned into Adamantium when he died, I think has something to do with Cersei's, like, um, matter changing properties. I don't, or is it that there are other dead Celestials out there who created Adamantium elsewhere in the universe? No,

[01:07:39] I don't, no, I don't think so. I don't know. That's a good question. Because at one point, um, for example, we see, we see Thanos, um, he breaks Cap's shield with his sword. Could that have been Adamantium in his sword? from somewhere else? Hmm, that's a good, that's a good question. I never thought about it. Because if it's out there somewhere, it could pop up again. But I don't know. I don't even know

[01:08:08] if they've thought of it, to be honest, so. Yeah, I don't think, in that movie, they were giving thought to the future. Right. I don't think the Rousseau's thought they would be back. Hmm. Yeah. Um, another, so this, this whole fight at Celestial Island was a moment, another moment where it felt so patchwork because, was it just me or did you at all think it was weird when, when Falcon went down, when Joaquin Torres went down, there was like,

[01:08:39] it was like, there's this weird, Sam was like, I'm gonna save him and then they're like, no, you, uh, we'll get him, you have to keep fighting. He's like, okay, and then there's like this weird cut to him already being helped in the water and, I don't know, it just felt like something weird was cut out or changed there. Yeah. I didn't pick it up when I saw it, but when you said it, I kind of picked it up, picked up on it. But in the moment, I did not. Yeah. I mean, I don't know, not much to say about it. Just like see,

[01:09:09] I see the stitching from the Franken movie. I thought the, the flying sequences were really well done though. Hmm. Overall, I thought the flying sequences were much better because I was the VFX department. I was not impressed by the fight choreo in this movie. Like it felt so stagey, all the fight scenes on the grounds for me. Yeah, I was okay with it. I didn't think they were poorly done. I mean, they were competently done. I thought they were fun. I thought the final conflict

[01:09:38] was, was fun. Okay. So yeah, let's talk about that cherry blossom clash at the end. Besides that, the imagery, just the fight between the two of them. I thought it was, I thought it was fun. It was sufficient comic book for me. The last fight, I think, was the best one for me. Yeah, I was comic book doubted and I was like, yeah, this is what it's supposed to be like. So I was happy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I thought it was, the final fight was fine for me. It was,

[01:10:07] it was the earlier on the ground fights where I really felt like, you could hear them going like one, two, three, four, and then I grab you here and then you, you know, for me, I just saw the choreography, choreography. I don't know, I guess, so that brings us to the final jail scene. They're on the raft, which in case anyone doesn't remember, this is like this superhero jail that's out in the middle of the ocean and we've seen it turn up various times. We've seen a number of our heroes

[01:10:36] spend some time there. So they make some jokes to that in this as well. Like after Civil War and also it was in Black Widow. So, yeah, we talked about the Liv Tyler thing and then we, we now have Red Hulk, we have Ross kept there. I guess that's another reason like, oh, he won't be in the next film because he's on the raft. But, you know, Red Hulk could be

[01:11:06] on the next Avengers scene. Now I think about it. Hmm. He could be because Sam seems to, to, to like him. I mean, we still have, we still have the Bruce Banner. Why would he call them, why would he call them, yes sir, Mr. President. The fuck out of here, Sam Wilson. The fuck is wrong with you? Excuse my language. I'm sorry. You piss me off. Hey, yes sir, Mr. President. What the hell is wrong with this guy?

[01:11:37] And we got, uh, in the credit scene, there was one credit scene and it was, uh, Sam Wilson in visiting Stearns, the leader, who's now imprisoned again and Stearns warns him there's an attack coming from other worlds, which I think is an interesting way to frame it as an attack. What did you think of the credit scene? Yeah, um, it did nothing that I didn't already know they were planning on doing. Mm-hmm. So it didn't add to anything for me, no. Mm-hmm.

[01:12:07] Yeah. It didn't add it. No, it felt like Marvel and, you know, maybe if you're not in tune with Marvel and you, you don't read about what they're planning, you know, the next movies, blah, blah, blah. This would be like, oh, okay, attack. Who's attacking? But for me, it was just like yawn. Yeah. That's the thing about the whole movie. It was just milk toast yawn. Wow. Well, any, any final, we've been, we've been harsh on this one, but I,

[01:12:37] yeah, and I'm okay with being harsh on it because it should have been better. It should have been better, you know, and they, and they were billing it as, oh, this is the start of something new. I'm like, I hope not. I hope this is the end of that, you know, kind of mediocre stream of movies that we've been, bringing movies we've been getting. Yeah. Um, but on the more exciting side, we are both looking forward to our daredevil coverage plans. Yes. Yes. Yeah. In a week.

[01:13:06] The first two episodes drop. Yeah. Yeah. First two episodes drop on Tuesday, March 4th. And so you and I were recording a prep episode that's going to be on the subscriber feeds on Patreon and Supercast. And that's, we're going to be talking through basically what came before in the Netflix Defendersverse series where this version of Daredevil and Fisk and et cetera come from. Um, and then on the public feed, we're going to be

[01:13:35] covering Daredevil sporadically. We're going to be doing a response to the first two episodes for sure. And then coming back every couple, two or three episodes probably to check in on this series. How's your hype level on Daredevil? Yeah, I'm super duper. Mm hmm. Yeah, no, I'm yeah, I I'm slightly dulled in my hype by this film, but I just have to keep remembering like Agatha, Agatha, they do better at TV. Right.

[01:14:06] Um, and yeah, so subscribers, you have that Daredevil born again, prep upcoming, uh, but also watch out for upcoming Second Breakfast and Elevensees episodes with, uh, Lynch's Eraserhead, the subject of this month's Elevensees. And then, yeah, John, I, you and I were discussing it's a little busy right now and I need to catch up on your friendly neighborhood Spider-Man. So we're going to be checking in, we're going to be talking about that first season in early March, but you, you liked it a lot, right?

[01:14:41] really enjoyed it. So that made it even higher, put it even higher on my enjoyment list. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm about halfway through the season because they just dropped it too fast. They dropped like three episodes a week. Um, and yeah, I'm deep in Oscar season and stuff, but, uh, yeah, I'm, I'm quite happy so far, you know, I'm having a good time halfway through. So looking forward to finishing up. Uh, and yeah, so as I mentioned, I'm deep in the Oscar coverage wrapping up, uh, this week with the

[01:15:11] ceremony is Sunday, March 2nd. So in case you have missed that, uh, series, me and a slew of specialized guests have, uh, been walking you through everything about what's competing, who's expected to win. And plenty of ideas for what movies you might want to watch on your own watch list, as well as, you know, the, the controversies and questions of, of this season and everything else that's going on. Um, and also meantime, already warming up for our wheel of time coverage. That's going to be John and I.

[01:15:41] So, uh, there's a spoiler cast out with a response to the first, to the first full trailer if you missed that. Um, but do check out if you haven't seen it yet. Amazon prime released the first 10 minutes of the third season. You can find that on prime, uh, or on YouTube and yeah, it, it goes hard. Did you get a chance to watch that yet? I didn't watch it. I, I, I kind of like don't want to watch it cause I want to be surprised when I

[01:16:09] really start the series, but I'm probably going to give in before the series. stop. Yeah, that, that one is dropping, uh, three episodes on March 13th, Amazon in there three episodes and then one a week after that. And we're going to be covering it weekly, but so that that starts March 13th, but there is an online, uh, fan event that Amazon prime's putting on where you can watch the first episode, March 8th,

[01:16:39] but you need to go RSVP while you still can. So Google, uh, wheel of time prime fan event, uh, if you want to watch it the first episode a week early. And then of course, uh, check out the link tree in the show notes where you can find links to, uh, all of the supercast Patreon stuff. Also we'll shift dust where we just finished up silo going into dune, those star Wars canon timeline podcast,

[01:17:09] radioactive ramblings is, uh, doing invincible coverage right now. Another show I need to catch up on. I hear good things about the season, although apparently Mark's being annoying. Um, and nevermind the music speaking of different Mark. And, uh, there's also a separate severance feed, which I know lots of you have been finding because there's been lots of chatter about that. Um, Laura Hound subscribers, in addition to all the

[01:17:39] other stuff I mentioned, you can get separate, uh, extra severance episodes, deep diving into some of like the psychological concepts and stuff. Uh, but there's also a discounted season pass for anyone who's not a subscriber who just wants to pay $5 for access to these extra severance episodes. So all that in the link tree in the show notes and also a link to the discord where John and I are both very active. Yes, yes, yes. I will. I will answer questions and you're dropping your weekly comic book

[01:18:08] recommendations after, after we caught today, I'm going to, I'm going to drop for this week's polls. Okay. Yeah. And you'll find their under current shows. Now, um, it's usually under franchises. If you're listening as we're recording this or as we're releasing this, it's under current shows, Marvel section. Uh, there's chats under there for this movie, Captain America and for the upcoming daredevil show. So you can chat about everything there. And yeah, we, we want your feedback in general. So, you know,

[01:18:38] please send your Marvel thoughts about this movie about daredevil to MCU at the lower hounds.com. And also general thoughts can go to lower hounds at the lower hounds.com. But you have any, any final thoughts on, uh, no, on Captain America and what's coming up. Let us know when you guys watch it on streaming, how you feel about the flick. As soon as you watch it on streaming, you know, VOD, let us know. All right. As always,

[01:19:08] I'm going to shout out our, our lower masters and discord server boosters. And this time I'm pulling from the epic folder. No idea what's coming, but it's called bully. Here we go. Oh, wow. Thank you to our discord server boosters. Aaron K. Aaron K. Aaron K. Tiller, the thriller, dork of the ninjas, doove 71, Athena, Adjalea, Tina, the stew, Nancy M. Ghost of partition, radioactive Richard. Thank you most especially to our subscribers, to our lower hounds, and to most of all, to our lower masters,

[01:19:38] our highest tier of subscribers. We shout them out every episode and their names are for some Martian, Michael G, Michelle E, Brian P, SC, Peter O. H, Bettina W, Adam S, Nancy M, doove 71, Brian 8063, Frederick H, Sarah L, Gareth C, Matthew M, Sarah M, DJ Miwa, Andra B, Kwong Yu, Dead Eye Jedi Bob, Nathan T, Alex V, Sub Zero, Aaron K, Dally V, Mothership 61, Narls, Kathy W, Lisdu,

[01:20:08] Jeffrey B, Elisa U, Neil F, Ben B, Scott F, Stephen N, Julia F, Carly S, Ilmariel, and always last, Adrian. And Jean, do you have any final words before we go? Kevin Feige, Black Panther, Recast, Jamsin, Idris is your guy. The Lorehounds podcast is produced and published by the Lorehounds.

[01:20:38] You can send questions and feedback and voicemails at thelorehounds.com slash contact. Get early and ad-free access to all Lorehounds podcasts at patreon.com slash the Lorehounds. Any opinions stated are ours personally and do not reflect the opinion of or belong to any employers or other entities. Hey everyone, David here.

[01:21:08] Severance is back. The Lorehounds are partnering with Properly Howard to bring you in-depth weekly coverage of season two. Join me, John, Anthony, and Steve as we unpack every twist, theory, and revelation. We've created a dedicated feed just for our Severance coverage. Simply search for Severance Lorehounds in your podcast app or find the direct link in our link tree.

[01:21:37] Our weekly episodes dig deep into the show's mysteries, themes, and bigger questions about identity and consciousness that make Severance so compelling. Season Pass and regular community subscribers get ad-free access to our weekly episodes, plus exclusive content like our Supply Closet bonus series, featuring fascinating conversations with experts like the team from Nevermind the Music. We've explored the neuroscience of memory and personality,

[01:22:07] decoded the hidden meanings in the show's musical themes, and there's much more to come. You'll also get Steve and Anthony's complete season one rewatch series. We believe in total transparency with our listeners, and unlike Mammalians Nurturable, we're happy to share all of our secrets. Find the link for the Severance feed in the show notes below, or search Severance Lorehounds wherever you get

[01:22:37] your podcasts. Come theorize with us about what's really happening at Lumen.