Doctor Who - S01E01-03 - The Church on Ruby Road, Space Babies, & The Devil's Chord

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[00:01:12] Welcome to the Sonic Screwcast, where The Lorehounds, your guides to all of time and space. I'm John.

[00:01:21] And I'm Alisha, and this is our coverage of the BBC and Disney Plus series Doctor Who.

[00:01:27] In this episode, we'll be discussing the first three episodes of the soft reboot season one of Doctor Who,

[00:01:33] titled The Church on Ruby Road, Space Babies, and The Devil's Chord.

[00:01:39] And as much as we enjoy discussing the show amongst ourselves, we also really want to hear from you.

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[00:02:28] Alicia, we've been here before in Who-land, but just briefly, and I believe we had a guest, Simon.

[00:02:35] Right.

[00:02:36] This is our first real coverage. We were discussing whether to do it or not,

[00:02:41] and I think we were pretty committed most of the time.

[00:02:43] Yeah.

[00:02:44] And I'm really excited to be here in the new Who.

[00:02:50] Mm-hmm.

[00:02:52] How about you?

[00:02:53] How about you?

[00:02:54] Yeah, I'm excited. Indeed, we talked about it in the previous episode where we talked about

[00:03:02] the specials with David Tennant, but I've been following this series now for years.

[00:03:10] I've watched everything since 2005, since The Ninth Doctor. And you, I know, you've been going

[00:03:17] back to the beginning though.

[00:03:19] Oh, yeah. I've been having a great time with William Hartnell. I just actually finished his

[00:03:24] run last night. So tonight I'm going to start the Patrick Trotten era.

[00:03:31] So you've met Susan, the granddaughter?

[00:03:33] Yeah. She's not even in the series that long, believe it or not.

[00:03:36] Okay.

[00:03:37] She's only in, I think, season one and a part of season two.

[00:03:41] So that's why they've been able to forget her ever since. But well, we'll talk about it as we

[00:03:46] go. But a lot of people think that that backstory might play a role this season.

[00:03:51] Yeah. I believe she shows up in some of the later reunion specials.

[00:03:56] Okay.

[00:03:56] So she's not just gone, but she is at some point dropped off in, I think, the 25th century after

[00:04:05] they defeat the Daleks at some point. And she falls in love with a guy living in the 25th

[00:04:12] century and the Doctor's like, hey, this seems to be where you want to be. So I'm going to leave

[00:04:16] without you. I don't need you. It's all right. And he promises to come back, but he hasn't yet.

[00:04:24] Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I mean, or has he off screen? Because a lot of things, we learn a lot of things

[00:04:31] about the Doctor along the way that happened in between episodes, so to speak.

[00:04:37] Yeah. It's a good question. Yeah. So I was a big fan. I became a fan just before the 50th,

[00:04:43] like a year before the 50th, I would say. And then I was big on Matt Smith. When Matt Smith

[00:04:50] left, it was hard for me to get into Capaldi. I stopped watching for a long time ahead of the 60th,

[00:04:55] I guess anniversaries are when I come back, ahead of the 60th.

[00:04:58] That's what they're for, those episodes.

[00:05:00] Yeah. I binged what I had already seen from 2005 on and finished the 13th Doctor since our last

[00:05:08] podcast. So I've watched all of New Who and I've watched seasons one through three of Classic Who.

[00:05:14] Okay. Yeah, an ex got me into it during the Tenet era and then I've been watching ever since. I

[00:05:20] actually don't think he does anymore. But yeah, I struggled a little bit during the Jodie Whittaker

[00:05:29] era, not because of Jodie Whittaker actually, but because of the shipnel part of it, the writing.

[00:05:34] Yeah.

[00:05:37] But I loved her as a Doctor, so I just found it like she was underutilized. But then there were

[00:05:42] some great ones, episodes in that era as well. But I'm very excited about this new lease. Now,

[00:05:50] yeah, I'm curious how much the acquisition by Disney is going to change the tone of the series.

[00:05:58] Do you see a change?

[00:06:00] I don't think the tone. I think it felt very Doctor Who, felt very BBC still. The budget

[00:06:06] definitely helps. It's a noticeable change in visual effects.

[00:06:10] Absolutely. Yeah. What do you think about people? So this is supposed to be an onboarding point

[00:06:18] where people who have never experienced Who before can jump in, like the way that you and

[00:06:23] I did with the 2005 reboot. How do you think it's delivering on that as being an entry point for

[00:06:30] people who know nothing? I think it's a good entry point, but it'll be much more enjoyable

[00:06:36] if you've watched at least new Who. Okay. I think they do a good job of introducing who the Doctor

[00:06:45] is, introducing some of the central mysteries. Where did the Doctor come from? This idea of

[00:06:52] found family and whatnot. I think that it's a natural progression for the 2005 series,

[00:07:01] but it's also... It repeats some of the comforts of the pilot and second episode of

[00:07:08] the 2005 series as well. I'll get into that once we get into episode two.

[00:07:13] Mm-hmm. Yeah. How about you? Yeah. I think that the Christmas special did well as just a little

[00:07:25] teaser. A taste of Who, if you will. A taste of Who. Yeah. Then the first episode of the official...

[00:07:32] I don't know whether to call it the first or the second episode, but Space Babies.

[00:07:36] I'm going to number it two and three for the new episodes because that's what they did in Disney Plus

[00:07:41] and I don't want to confuse people. Oh, they did? Okay. Okay. Yeah. I was surprised to find

[00:07:44] the Christmas special in there, but also it makes sense. Yeah.

[00:07:48] But yeah. Okay. So then episode two, I found a bit of an exposition dump at times, but also necessary.

[00:07:56] But I hope... Yeah. We'll get into it when we get there, but I do think that was quintessential

[00:08:01] Doctor Who. Yeah. No, that's true. That's true. I did ask my... I watched the Christmas special

[00:08:08] at Christmas, strangely enough, with my sister and brother-in-law who are always Hugh Curious,

[00:08:15] but never got into it. And I asked for their... They didn't have time to watch the other two

[00:08:19] episodes this weekend, but I asked them for their impression of the Christmas special as newbies.

[00:08:26] Just in case it's helpful to other people who are considering like, I don't know, should I get into

[00:08:31] this? All right. Does it have spoilers in it? It has very mild spoilers for the Christmas special.

[00:08:38] Okay. So we're going to play this. If you want absolutely no spoilers,

[00:08:42] just fast forward like two minutes. So I knew that Doctor Who is a very long running TV show

[00:08:51] with different actors as the main character, but the main character is always,

[00:08:57] I think, some sort of doctor who has magic or is able to use elements of the universe in a way

[00:09:08] that seems magical to humans. And I know he time travels and I think that's maybe some part of how

[00:09:15] they explain the different characters or the actors they use throughout this franchise. And of

[00:09:22] course, I know he time travels in a telephone booth that's blue and it's called the TARDIS.

[00:09:30] What about you? What did you know going into it? A lot of the same things. I really just knew that

[00:09:36] it was some kind of like mystery sci-fi show that's been running forever. And a lot of it

[00:09:43] focused around a singular character kind of running around either solving mysteries or

[00:09:48] going on adventures and traveling in a blue photo booth or a phone booth.

[00:09:55] Right, right. Phone booth. So what seemed interesting about it was,

[00:10:02] I guess the sci-fi mystery part of it just seemed like right up my alley with that and a little bit

[00:10:08] of humor and kind of whimsicalness to it that just seemed really like a good blend of all those

[00:10:14] things. And it had been running for a long time, just seemed that there was something to it that

[00:10:19] seemed interesting and I always wanted to try it out. Yeah, the fact that it's been running for so

[00:10:24] long and has so many fans made it intriguing to me. Also overwhelming because it's been on for

[00:10:32] so long and I'm one of those people who like plays a video game to 100% completion. So to not see the

[00:10:39] whole thing always felt like, well, if I can't watch it all, how can I possibly start? But I guess

[00:10:45] they do help with that by maybe by changing the character for each chunk of the franchise. It

[00:10:51] makes it easier to step in at different points so you don't feel like you actually have to have seen

[00:10:56] all of it. At least that's what I'm hoping as we get into this newest season or, I don't know,

[00:11:04] chapter of it. I'm not sure what they're called. But hopefully by making those changes with the

[00:11:10] different actors as the lead character and I guess all the other changes that go along with

[00:11:16] it, maybe it makes it a little easier for someone like me to jump in and very late in the game.

[00:11:22] So we did see one episode so far. Yeah. The Christmas special. What did you think?

[00:11:31] I really liked it. I think going into it, all the basic information I knew

[00:11:38] was clear and answered. And then the story itself was kind of everything I was expecting.

[00:11:44] The mystery, a little bit of humor, horror. There's a whimsicalness to it, but still almost like tiny

[00:11:51] elements of horror with the little goblins and how they looked in The Goblin King.

[00:11:54] And eating the baby. Yeah.

[00:11:57] Yeah, it was definitely more humorous than I expected. I think I expected it to be somewhere

[00:12:04] more like a Twilight Zone where it has a little more serious in tone. So I was actually kind of

[00:12:09] surprised it was so silly and the goblins were kind of ridiculous. All of it felt a little

[00:12:15] more ridiculous than I expected, which is fun. I think I just have to change my expectation for

[00:12:22] the rest of it. I'm not sure if this is what it was like before as well, or if this newer part

[00:12:27] of it just happens to be a little more goofy. But I did feel that the first episode gave

[00:12:33] a story that felt complete. I thought it was fun with the emphasis on coincidences

[00:12:40] or whether they really are coincidences. And I also love any kind of introduction of the

[00:12:48] butterfly effect in anything. So when they have a bit on like going back and changing time in the

[00:12:53] past and how much it can change current time, and then trying to undo that. I do like that when

[00:12:59] they introduce it into movies and shows. I think it's a fun thing to consider of how just the

[00:13:04] smallest action can change so much. Even though this was really just one baby not being adopted

[00:13:10] changed a foster parent, but that then changed dozens of foster children. So I don't know. Do

[00:13:17] you think you'll keep watching? I would definitely like to keep watching. Yeah. Yeah, I am intrigued.

[00:13:22] I will go into it maybe with lower expectations. No, knowing that it's a much sillier show than

[00:13:29] I expected. But I think it could be something fun to watch and see where they explore and what

[00:13:34] adventures they get into. You with me? Yeah. All right, let's do it. Looking forward to it.

[00:13:41] Well, thanks for calling in Ashley and Jose. Yeah. Do you think my sister sounds like me?

[00:13:48] Yeah, a little bit. A little bit. Different timbre of the voice a little bit, but I can

[00:13:53] definitely hear the relation. Yeah. People used to get us confused on the phone all the time.

[00:13:59] But yeah, I can say completionist syndrome definitely runs in the family.

[00:14:04] Yeah, yeah. I hear you. And I feel that too. And that's why I'm currently

[00:14:09] binging 60 years of TV. As much as you can.

[00:14:16] Yeah, yeah. They yeah, like season three only had like 12 episodes. Season four only has like

[00:14:21] six episodes that you can watch right now. But anyway, I it's something that I really

[00:14:29] was struck by in that voicemail was this magical thing that kept coming up. Because magic was never

[00:14:37] really a thing in Doctor Who. It was very, you know, this is all science. You just don't understand

[00:14:42] it yet. Yeah. Oh, it's I mean, but it's soft sci fi. But I think when she rephrased herself and

[00:14:47] said using elements of their surroundings in a way that appears magical to other people,

[00:14:53] I think that's, that's more what it is. Well, what I what I was gonna say was,

[00:14:58] I do think that this new series is more magical, is more magical is exploring these things that

[00:15:04] the doctor doesn't really understand. Like the language of ropes. Yeah, the language of ropes.

[00:15:10] And, and I again, I'm trying to stay spoiler free before we take a break. But you know,

[00:15:17] especially episode three, I think really confirms that this season is going into

[00:15:24] the the rules of the universe are bending and magic is possible. Right? And that that's

[00:15:29] interesting because it's a new story in Doctor Who. Mm hmm. So that would be the change of tone.

[00:15:36] Yeah. Yeah, I do think the silliness is part of it for sure. Yeah. And it's important to know

[00:15:42] that it's silly going in because you need to turn off your more serious brain with this. You know,

[00:15:47] you shouldn't be analyzing the science. But once you if you just like go in for the ideas, and

[00:15:55] there's some surprising moments of depth and a lot of fun. Yeah, yeah, I think that it's

[00:16:01] there's a lot of like morality plays in it. And like you said, it's techno babble, right? It's

[00:16:08] it's not real science. You just have to go with it. Just just take the doctor at his word.

[00:16:13] Yeah, yeah. And they do. I'm glad that in episode two space babies, they do clarify things like

[00:16:19] whether he's a medical doctor and what kind of booth the TARDIS is and things like that,

[00:16:23] because especially Americans will not know the latter. Right? Especially I heard phone box and

[00:16:29] that voice. No, it's a police box. Yeah. Existed in the 20th century England. Yeah, exactly.

[00:16:38] But yeah, if they keep watching, I'll keep asking them for their impressions as the season progresses.

[00:16:43] And given what my sister said about the butterfly effect, I definitely want to hear her reaction to

[00:16:48] space babies. Yeah, definitely. I heard that I was like, Oh, you know, like the opening.

[00:16:55] All right. Can we give some spoiler free impressions of the first three episodes?

[00:17:01] Yes. Yeah. So just briefly, I thought the Christmas special was delightful. I loved

[00:17:07] every moment of it. And I hope that there are they keep continuing to continuing these musical

[00:17:12] elements in new new who space babies was not my favorite. It was a bit of an exposition dump,

[00:17:19] as I keep saying, but and I was more like so so in the story and elements of it and

[00:17:25] certain aspects of the effects didn't really work for me and were distracting.

[00:17:28] But you know, that's kind of like part of the course for watching who some you're going to

[00:17:33] like more than others, but I worried about it a little bit as a first impression. But then

[00:17:38] they totally made up for it with the devil's court. I'm so glad they released both episodes.

[00:17:42] Because, I mean, the devil's court is one of my favorite entertainments and favorite entertainers

[00:17:48] playing a villain for the ages. So yeah, that was that just really nailed it for me. What about you?

[00:17:55] Yeah, the Christmas special I was mostly really positive on I think that the some of the song

[00:18:01] parts I was cringing a little bit but it and especially because this was sort of the first

[00:18:07] impression of Disney Doctor Who. And I went Oh, no, is this gonna be like the thing? Are we gonna

[00:18:13] do like silly songs all the time? Please make it the thing. Oh, no, I'm not. I'm not a huge fan of

[00:18:18] that. But I did really enjoy there's another musical number in episode three. And I really

[00:18:23] enjoyed that. So I think that as long as they do it, well, it'll be fine. Right? Space Babies.

[00:18:32] I started off strong and it just kind of had its ups and downs. And I do think some of the

[00:18:38] social commentary was a little on the nose. Not that I don't want social commentary on Doctor

[00:18:42] Who. It's always been there. That's like a right entity in the show. But I do think that it was

[00:18:48] a little bit like here is the message of the show. Right? And that that bothered me a little

[00:18:52] bit. But overall, I think it was a good introduction to the doctor and the lore of this universe.

[00:19:00] And they keep doing that as a gradual, a gradual reveal of information through the first couple

[00:19:07] episodes. And then the devil's cord, like you said, this new villain is is just the best villain

[00:19:15] they've made in years, like the best original villain they've had in years. And I'm so excited

[00:19:19] to see where this is going. I'm so excited for the broader implications of this category of villain

[00:19:25] that they're introducing. And I just I can't wait to see more. Yeah, yeah, I'm excited to it makes

[00:19:32] Yeah, it's, it feels like there's a fresh vigor in this, you know, new season. So I'm very excited

[00:19:39] to see how it plays out. Yeah, and I just want to say overall, shooty is killing it. Yeah, the

[00:19:45] doctor. Incredible performance really, like immediately feels like the doctor, but in a new

[00:19:51] vibe. Yeah. It feels like the doctor just like, just like having his having his, you know, fun era.

[00:20:00] Yeah. Yeah, the doctor finally gets to have fun. But then they still you know, they still brought

[00:20:06] up the situation of Gallifrey. And I don't know, we're counting exposition is exposition dump

[00:20:13] backstory as spoilers. But yeah, you know, I've always said like, Matt Smith, I think,

[00:20:19] most perfectly captures the whole dangerous person plus goofy fun guy. He's my doctor. Yeah.

[00:20:28] And I, you know, David Tennant will always be my doctor. But but Matt Smith, I think better

[00:20:34] captures that balance. We haven't seen that sort of rage within the 15th doctor. And I wonder if

[00:20:44] that rage has been turned has been sort of dug deeper into the sadness that it was the whole

[00:20:49] time. Yeah, or maybe just I they said they wanted, you know, did something about the by generation,

[00:20:56] which, you know, go back and listen to our 60th anniversary special coverage if you want to know

[00:21:01] what that is. But they said the point of the by generation was supposed to be about giving the

[00:21:07] doctor time to refresh and not be so haunted going into the new series. So I guess that's that's the

[00:21:16] vibe. You know, it's someone who's like, I've been through tough stuff, but I've healed and I'm ready

[00:21:21] to take on the world again. But but even when you've healed, it doesn't go away, right? Like,

[00:21:26] no, you never fully scar tissue. Yeah. And I think we see that in space babies, especially.

[00:21:33] Yeah, I agree. All right, why don't we take a quick break? When we get back,

[00:21:38] we will get into full spoilers for the new season. And we're back. All right. So I've recapped,

[00:22:02] you know, the brief synopsis, all three episodes. So I'm gonna go one at a time. And then we can

[00:22:06] talk about our thoughts. Okay, episode one, the church on Ruby Road on Christmas Day 2023. The

[00:22:13] doctor meets a young woman named Ruby Sunday, named after the church she was found abandoned on

[00:22:19] at Christmas Eve 2004. When Ruby's adoptive mother gets another baby to foster, it is kidnapped by

[00:22:28] goblins who intend to eat it. The doctor and Ruby save the baby in a musical adventure in the sky.

[00:22:33] The doctor goes back in time to save Ruby as a baby, seeing a mysterious figure place her in

[00:22:39] front of the church. In 2023. The doctor tries to leave. But Ruby bursts into the TARDIS. Ruby's

[00:22:46] neighbor Mrs. Flood gives a knowing look to the audience. Hmm. What you've never seen a TARDIS

[00:22:53] before? Yeah. Okay. So who is Mrs. Flood? Is that just is that just Susan? I mean, this is

[00:23:03] the question, but then why play the games? But yeah, so I don't know. Also, another thing that

[00:23:10] people are keeping an eye on is that there is an actress whose real name is Susan Twist. And

[00:23:17] she has been showing up in the background of each episode as a different character.

[00:23:21] So do you think that they're above casting someone called Susan Twist to place?

[00:23:28] It might be. It might be just a fun coincidence. But they have her showing up in each episode so

[00:23:33] far. Oh, no, I just mean it might be a fun coincidence that that's her name. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:23:39] No, yeah. There's definitely a reason that she's in the background. Either that or it's,

[00:23:44] you know, it's Ruby's mom. Yeah. And maybe maybe Ruby's mom is Susan, right? Right.

[00:23:51] Is Susan Foreman. But then who's Mrs. Flood? It's confusing because here's the thing. When

[00:23:56] Doctor Who first came out, the doctor wasn't even necessarily an alien. The doctor was like

[00:24:01] probably just meant to be a human genius from the future. And so Susan had a first and last name.

[00:24:10] But from the beginning, they're like, oh, Dr. Foreman. He's like, oh, that's not my name.

[00:24:14] So it's very confusing what their intent was with it. But I think Susan really was like kind of

[00:24:21] meant to be a human at first. And boy, did they write her as a stereotypical 15 year old girl

[00:24:29] in the 60s. She was not very well written. She was almost always like fainting and having a hard

[00:24:36] time with everything. And it's a shame because I think that it would be interesting to see,

[00:24:41] you know, the doctor's daughter as a more strong willed person who is who is able to

[00:24:47] hold her own. Well, maybe that's why they would they could have her come back as one of these

[00:24:53] more nefarious seeming characters who who might be have been playing games the whole time or

[00:25:00] something like that. I don't know. Would you like that? I haven't watched her originally, so

[00:25:05] I don't know if that's ruining her legacy or making her more interesting.

[00:25:08] She had sometimes an adversarial relationship with her grandpa, though. She loved she loved him,

[00:25:14] but she but she sometimes, you know, had the, you know, 15 year old stomping her foot and being mad

[00:25:19] at her grandpa. Yeah. And I don't know. The thing is, Carol Ann Ford is still alive.

[00:25:25] Carol Ann Ford played Susan Foreman. Right. And I kind of wish if they do have Susan come back.

[00:25:33] Use her. Use her. Well, use her at least to like show regeneration.

[00:25:38] Right. Like show me her regenerating into Mrs. Flood or whoever it's going to be.

[00:25:44] I think that would be nice. Also, you got to explain how and why doesn't she have like a name

[00:25:49] like the daughter or something? Well, I think I think that's because she wasn't a time Lord,

[00:25:57] right? She was a Gallifreyan. So that's something if you're new to the series,

[00:26:02] that is a distinction that they make at some point that like not all Gallifreyan,

[00:26:05] which are people who live on the planet, the doctor was from. Not all of them become time

[00:26:10] Lords. That's like a title you earn. Okay. And then you choose your name, I think from there.

[00:26:17] So you only this is new news to me. So you only regenerate if you're a time Lord?

[00:26:24] I believe that's true. Okay. But I don't know. I don't know. I know

[00:26:30] the timeless child stuff made me all confused with who gets to regenerate or not. Yeah.

[00:26:34] Yeah, I actually so people keep questioning, do we want them to go back to the timeless child,

[00:26:38] which was part of the Jodi Whitaker arc? And I say yes, because I found that that was to me,

[00:26:45] the most intriguing story element they introduced during that time.

[00:26:49] Yeah, so the timeless child, I really like it in concept. I think that just it got really muddied

[00:26:54] with the storytelling, but you can definitely do an interesting thing with that.

[00:26:59] Especially, you know, the doctor could theoretically find more of his species.

[00:27:06] And apparently Davis said that he found it an interesting concept too. So I think

[00:27:10] we should consider it on the table for further exploration.

[00:27:14] Definitely. And I mean, it's alluded to here, right? Like I was adopted to he says that

[00:27:18] in this episode. Right, exactly. And the next episode, right? Or no, is it this episode?

[00:27:24] No, is it this episode? I don't know. They kind of talk about the their origins in both.

[00:27:29] Yeah, they they, they bring it up several times. So I think that we're not letting go of this

[00:27:33] lore, which is fine. I liked it. Yeah, that's good. What do you think about Ruby as a companion?

[00:27:39] Yeah, I mean, I like her. She's funky. She's give she gives me a bit Billy Piper vibes,

[00:27:44] you know, from one of the classic companions. Yeah. And the first companion of new who right?

[00:27:50] Right? Yeah. Well, yeah. Okay. So do you think they're trying to parallel that with the same

[00:27:55] energy? I do. And I yeah, so they're obviously not gonna make a romance though. There's a theory

[00:28:02] going around. Do you know about this one? No, I don't know. Ruby is the child of the meta crisis

[00:28:08] doctor and rose. Oh, okay. Hmm. How would you feel about that? Let it go. Let those people just

[00:28:20] go off into the sunset. I think we've had enough of that whole story.

[00:28:25] What if she was a child of River Song?

[00:28:29] I'd be okay with that. I am a big rigor River Song Stan. I love her. I'm depressed that she's

[00:28:36] gone. Mm hmm. Why hope that she comes back in some way? Yeah. Yeah, never gone forever. And who?

[00:28:42] Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But yeah, I do think that roses a little bit on the nose with some of the

[00:28:48] rose parallels like, you know, a blonde haired 19 year old who's not very wealthy living in London.

[00:28:57] Yeah. No, it does seem like they're like, Oh, remember that that you liked or you know,

[00:29:01] or this works last time. But yeah, she does it. Well, she's I love her facial expressions,

[00:29:08] like both she and Shuji are giving really good face throughout the episodes. A lot of the stuff

[00:29:15] for me comes from that the way they react to things. Yeah, I do think that she's a really good

[00:29:21] pair with Shudi. Mm hmm. You know, they have like, the in season in episode three,

[00:29:27] they're really big on the fashion thing together. And I thought that was a really

[00:29:30] charming interaction. Yeah, agreed. Yeah, I would get excited to about getting dressed up

[00:29:35] in mod. I want to be hive. Yeah. I want to say that I hated the goblin song.

[00:29:43] It felt like a but I liked it. That's fine. That's fine. Because it was also it was a

[00:29:49] goblin song. It was Disney five, but it was about eating babies. It was about eating babies. And

[00:29:54] I'll give you that. But I don't need a song about eating babies. I didn't need it. But I was glad

[00:30:01] I got it. Okay, fair enough. Fair enough. I thought it was overall a really good episode. It was it's

[00:30:08] an interesting mystery regarding Ruby's identity. But I have heard a critique from the adoption

[00:30:15] community. Okay, the only story they ever tell about an adoptee is who are my parents? Oh,

[00:30:22] that's fair. And I agree with that. Yeah. Do you do you like this as a mystery box for the season?

[00:30:30] About who her I mean, I guess it depends how it resolves. If it's just being strung along for

[00:30:37] nothing, then meh. But if they, you know, milk some interesting character twists out of it,

[00:30:45] then it could be very exciting. So it's too soon to say, I think we only have six more episodes,

[00:30:50] right? So right. It's gonna go quickly. Yeah. So it's not gonna be dragged out too long. And we

[00:30:56] know that she's not going to be past season two, right? Um, well, we don't really we had we thought

[00:31:05] that she might be being replaced with a new companion. But then we also just adding, right?

[00:31:14] But also, yeah, there's been the latest news is apparently the new companions going to briefly

[00:31:19] show up in this season. So but could that be something like, I don't know, there's lots of

[00:31:25] theories going around wild. I don't want to spread any of them. But I don't know things like a

[00:31:30] regeneration or thrown around or who knows? Right. And the budget, the budget is clearly

[00:31:39] noticeable here. Yes. Yeah, but it still has that charming shonkiness. You know?

[00:31:46] Yeah. And I do like that. I think it needs to have a little bit of that feeling duct taped together

[00:31:53] energy to feel like Doctor Who. Right? Absolutely. What do you think about Ruby's family dynamic?

[00:32:04] I loved her grandmother in the Christmas special. And my biggest disappointment of the first two

[00:32:11] new episodes of episodes two and three is that she didn't get enough time to, you know, she was

[00:32:19] my favorite part of the Christmas special. And then she was barely in the other two episodes.

[00:32:23] Yeah, she was a lot of fun. Yeah, a lot of fun. I really like the relationship that Ruby has with

[00:32:28] her mother too. It feels very genuine. Whenever there's like and you were so small that felt like,

[00:32:33] you know, as a parent myself with two young kids. I got a little choked up there. Yeah.

[00:32:40] Yeah, yeah. They're very charming family. I want you know, I'm sorry, what is her grandmother's

[00:32:46] name again? Cherry Sunday. I want cherry to be on the TARDIS by the end of the season.

[00:32:55] Well, we could we could have another wolf. Yeah, I'm good with that.

[00:32:59] Yeah, just yeah, just for a fun excursion. Not like

[00:33:02] feels very Willy Wonka if she's like in the bed. They fit the bed on the TARDIS.

[00:33:07] She was standing in the living room in the other episodes.

[00:33:11] Yeah, oh, true. True. All right. Any other thoughts on the Christmas special before we

[00:33:17] talk about the media episodes we got? No, just I think it was a charming introduction into

[00:33:24] this is the idea of who if you like it, keep watching.

[00:33:27] Yeah, yeah, I agree. There wasn't a lot of like, deep content in this, but it was a lot of fun.

[00:33:32] And that's what a Christmas special should be. Yeah. And some horror elements to which I liked

[00:33:37] with the with the goblin accidents. My sister asked me if I have goblins following me because

[00:33:44] I'm always getting into stupid accidents. Oh, boy. I hope not. No.

[00:33:51] OK, episode two, Space Babies, the doctor and Ruby make a quick stop to the age of dinosaurs

[00:33:57] where Ruby steps on a butterfly and dramatically changes the future before the doctor revives it

[00:34:01] and she returns to normal. They then end up on a space station with a monster chasing them.

[00:34:07] They find their way to the real purpose of the station, which is to birth babies for the local

[00:34:12] system. They learn that the sponsoring planet ran out of money, but the law wouldn't let them

[00:34:17] shut down the birthing machines. So only an accountant stayed to take care of the babies.

[00:34:22] The babies then grew up as more mature babies instead of adults and started running the ship.

[00:34:27] The doctor figures out that the monster is made out of the baby's snot because the machine made

[00:34:33] a monster for the baby story. Nanny tries to shoot the monster out of an airlock, but the doctor

[00:34:40] saves it as the last of its kind. He then launches the space station to a refugee planet with the

[00:34:45] power of farts. I just my first note here is we are so back. This is right out of the original R.T.D.

[00:34:57] era. Goofy, kind of almost low budget looking monster. The doctor talking to himself, trying

[00:35:08] to figure everything out. It's really, it's really very R.T.D. It's quintessential like ninth doctor

[00:35:16] episode. But I did I have to admit I did find the CGI for the baby's mouths a bit distracting.

[00:35:24] Yeah, it didn't look great, but I got used to it. I just stopped looking at the mouths.

[00:35:29] But I really feel like these new episodes are it's really focused on this sense of wonder.

[00:35:36] So I see why this magical feeling like we were talking about, and it's got more of this fairy

[00:35:42] tale feeling overall, which I think is part of it. It seems a lot of it seems very focused on

[00:35:47] folklore and fairy tales, you know, going back to the 60th anniversary special with the

[00:35:51] counting of the salt. But this one, do you feel like they're keeping it pitched for a lower

[00:36:01] younger age for more family viewing? Maybe on this episode, although that monster is pretty

[00:36:08] spooky. I think Episode three felt very much like a show for more adults. OK. Especially I don't

[00:36:16] think kids care about the Beatles these days, do you know? But I don't think that part was

[00:36:21] important if you don't, you know. Yeah. Fair enough. Shooty just absolutely nailing it as the doctor.

[00:36:30] Yeah. It's it's this lighthearted nature and not taking anything too seriously,

[00:36:37] but while simultaneously caring deeply about everyone and everything.

[00:36:41] Yes. Yes. I think that the actor, you know, I know him from sex education and he was great there. But

[00:36:48] here he's he really gets a chance to even shine more as the lead and he gets more of a layered

[00:36:55] inner life, you know, because the doctor is so many things and he has the depth for that

[00:37:02] complexity to shine. Yeah, I think he's absolutely nailing it, all the little micro expressions and

[00:37:09] just and I love the details of the costuming, too. Like I noticed they apply a sort of shimmer

[00:37:14] to his face just to give him that extra. This is someone who just glows magical quality.

[00:37:21] Yeah. And I got to say, he rocks the mustache. Yes. Really rocks the mustache. I wish I could

[00:37:27] rock a mustache like that. Yeah. I love in general that they're letting the doctor now

[00:37:33] change clothing every time. And yeah. Yeah. It's not just, you know,

[00:37:37] nine wearing a leather jacket into everything. Right.

[00:37:41] I really loved the why am I scared thing? But I don't think that's accurate at all. Like I was

[00:37:48] thinking back and I was like, what about the ninth doctor in the room with the Dalek in season one,

[00:37:53] like banging on the door? Let me out. Let me out. Yeah. But I guess the point is that it's

[00:38:00] rare enough that when it happens, the doctor takes note. And so the audience is supposed to take note

[00:38:06] Yeah, maybe. I guess so. But maybe it was also like the Daleks are, you know, established as a

[00:38:15] galaxy ending threat. And the doctor's like, this is something so trivial, just one little monster.

[00:38:20] Why would I be scared of something so trivial? Yeah, fair enough. Yeah, I get that. I get that.

[00:38:27] But he was afraid of one little Dalek. By the way, they made the comment about Star Trek. We

[00:38:32] one day and I was like, what the hell? And I had to look up. I'm like, no, they still

[00:38:37] Star Trek is owned by Paramount. So I don't know about Paramount's for sale. So maybe this is how

[00:38:41] Disney's announcing their bid. That's funny. That's funny. Imagine that that would be really

[00:38:46] cool if we had a crossover episode. Yeah, no, I would be here for it. Absolutely. Why not?

[00:38:52] Yep. Yep. This was a cute premise to me. The patient is like, I'm not going to be

[00:38:57] Yep. Yep. This was a cute premise to me. The pacing was off and it dragged a little but

[00:39:04] the premise was good. I like the funny twist with the snot monster. I love I love them being in the

[00:39:09] room of snot. And just the doctor realizing and laughing and Ruby being horrified. That was a

[00:39:15] great little contrast. But how hard must it have been to work with all those babies? I can't imagine.

[00:39:23] Yeah. Yeah, I have a hard time keeping two babies calm at the same time.

[00:39:29] Yeah, they all seems and you can see sometimes their face was like crumpling and they're trying

[00:39:35] to work it into the like, Oh, no, no. Yeah. So what did you think about the

[00:39:43] social commentary aspect? I mean, I took a picture of one of the exchanges because as you said,

[00:39:51] as you said, it was quite on the nose with at one point they're literally like,

[00:39:56] so they just they just want the babies to be born but then they don't take care of them.

[00:40:02] What? Yeah, that was the line that really bugged me.

[00:40:04] Yeah. Yeah. Which is I'm glad to hear that called out. But indeed, it felt a little when you're that

[00:40:12] on the nose, sometimes the people who need to hear something tune out.

[00:40:17] And I as someone who agrees with that sentiment,

[00:40:21] right, I totally agree with that sentiment was cringing at it. Because I think if you left that

[00:40:27] line out, it actually would have been okay. I think that was the line that brought it over the edge.

[00:40:32] Right? It's like, did you get it? See? See? Did you get it? Like, no,

[00:40:36] trust your audience, you know, right? It felt very pedantic. So and I said before, but social

[00:40:45] social commentary, social justice aspects of Dr. Who have always been a thing, right? You have

[00:40:52] you have I was just watching the gunfighter I think it's called this old first doctor story.

[00:40:57] He's like, Oh, I don't like violence. I don't I don't do guns, things like that. I

[00:41:01] people need to stop handing me guns. He makes it he yells at them. But but yeah,

[00:41:08] it needs to be woven in in a way that feels organic. Right? Because if you I think that

[00:41:14] the best way to convince someone to your side is to tell them a story that lets them get fully

[00:41:20] engrossed and empathize with people. It's not to be like, this is what you're supposed to get out

[00:41:26] of this. Right? Exactly. Right. Because when you are thanking people over the head with the moral,

[00:41:32] then they are, they're not you have to connect with people make them feel something in order

[00:41:38] for them to really start thinking about Oh, how would that be? How is that applicable to other

[00:41:44] things? When you're just like, this is the moral of the story. Then people like, Okay, yeah, yeah.

[00:41:50] Moving on. Yeah, exactly.

[00:41:55] One thing that I wondered about is that he repeated several times in this episode

[00:42:01] that people on his world are known by titles and keeps giving these examples, you know.

[00:42:07] And of course, repeating some old favorites, but I did wonder,

[00:42:11] does that include the Toymaker? Is that that's a title?

[00:42:16] The Toymaker is not a time Lord, but the Toymaker I believe, you know, David Tennant says and I

[00:42:22] haven't watched the original Toymaker story because it's lost. Right. But the Toymaker

[00:42:27] appears to be from a different universe where the rules are different. And that's the whole idea.

[00:42:31] But then so is the doctor?

[00:42:34] Right? Yeah. So so that is a question I had to is, is are they sort of the same class of being?

[00:42:43] Yeah, I just noticed that several times they're like, Oh, we just all have these titles like

[00:42:48] blah, blah, blah, the Ronnie and the you know, right? I forget what else he said.

[00:42:53] So here's my question is the fob watch. Is that reducing the doctor's powers that would be on the

[00:43:01] level of the Toymaker and maestro? Maybe, because the doctor currently is subject to the limitations

[00:43:11] of a fob watch. Which was if you if you didn't watch Oh boy, this is gonna be if you didn't

[00:43:20] watch classic new who the fob watch is sort of a device that and I forgot the official name of it,

[00:43:30] and I forgot the official name of it. But it's essentially a device that will

[00:43:34] take the memories and abilities of a time Lord and put it into a watch so that they are

[00:43:40] human biologically, and they don't have their time Lord memories. And it's a way for them to hide

[00:43:46] themselves away from other time Lords and other villains. But the doctor was already subject to

[00:43:55] we was revealed in the 13th Doctors era that the doctor already had a fob watch, erasing

[00:44:02] like all the regenerations before what became known as the first doctor.

[00:44:06] And the question is because the doctor is not a time not biologically a Gallifreyan. The doctor

[00:44:12] was made you know what was found and the Gallifreyan received the ability of regeneration

[00:44:19] from the doctor's biology. The doctor my question is, is the doctor biologically a Gallifreyan now,

[00:44:27] but would be something greater without the fob watch limitation?

[00:44:32] I mean, that's that is a valid question. But didn't didn't the doctor recovered most of

[00:44:40] what they stored away in the fall batch, right? Am I remembering that correctly?

[00:44:44] The doctor never opened it. Oh, oh, the doctor tossed it into the center of the TARDIS.

[00:44:49] Okay. So you think yeah, that maybe we're got celestial power waiting there?

[00:44:57] Yeah. Okay. Could be. I mean, if the doctor is going to need to what here's a cool,

[00:45:04] here's a cool climax. The doctor opens it uses it and is like this is too much power for anybody.

[00:45:10] And then uses the fob watch again. Wait opens what? And then opens the fob watch like gets

[00:45:17] it out of the center. Oh, and then put you do a whole episode where they go into the center

[00:45:21] of the TARDIS again. Okay. And they they find it. And then the doctor uses the power of a celestial

[00:45:26] to defeat the celestials. Right? And then puts it back because this is nobody should have this

[00:45:31] much or shares it again like happened with Donna. Hmm. Anyway, Ruby regenerates at the end of the

[00:45:40] season. Oh, now we're cooking. Now we're writing the series ourselves. Overall, I thought this was

[00:45:50] a mid tier episode. I don't think it's gonna go down in the grates of Doctor Who, but it was good.

[00:45:55] Yeah, I don't know. I think I was slightly lower on it than you. But as I said, the episodes on

[00:45:59] either side of it more than made up for it for me. Fair enough. Fair enough. Why don't we talk

[00:46:05] about that third episode, the devil's chord. A powerful being called maestro is freed when a

[00:46:11] secret chord is played. I heard there was a secret chord that David played and I pleased the Lord.

[00:46:17] The baffled king composing Hallelujah.

[00:46:21] She travels time stealing music from musicians until there's no more music in the world.

[00:46:26] The doctor and Ruby arrive in 1963 to see the Beatles record their first album at what would

[00:46:31] become Abbey Road Studios. When they get there, the Beatles and other legendary musicians can't

[00:46:36] play well at all. Ruby plays the piano and attracts maestro who the doctor and Ruby escape from.

[00:46:44] The doctor shows Ruby what the future looks like without music and London is destroyed.

[00:46:49] They end up in a musical battle with maestro when maestro forces a secret song from Ruby's soul,

[00:46:54] which is Carol of the Bells. The doctor almost completes the chord to banish maestro,

[00:46:59] but hits a bad note and is covered and is captured. The piano goes into the path of

[00:47:05] John Lennon who plays the final note and finishes the chord to banish maestro.

[00:47:12] Yeah, I mean, first of all, we have to point out that Jinx got to play the doctor who intro was

[00:47:18] maestro played the doctor who intro which was a great way to open the episode just like

[00:47:23] sets the tone like this is who's in charge for this episode.

[00:47:26] Right? And and it really reminded me of Peter Capaldi playing the guitar for the doctor who

[00:47:32] theme in one of those episodes that was really good. So I love when they do this.

[00:47:37] Exactly, especially because they don't do it every time. So when it happens,

[00:47:41] it's really like, Oh, this is something special.

[00:47:43] Right? What'd you think of this episode overall?

[00:47:46] Yeah, I mean, I thought that this was, this was a really fun one. I, of course,

[00:47:52] it gets a little hokey at the end with Ruby's soul song or whatever, but and being held up

[00:47:59] by musical notes. But this is, yeah, quintessential who as you said, I love between this and the

[00:48:07] multiverse of madness. I love the new prevalence of music fights.

[00:48:14] Yeah, I see. I really liked the music fight here because it wasn't filled with like stupid

[00:48:18] lyrics and whatnot. That was cool. I really enjoyed that.

[00:48:22] Yes. No, this was good. And by the way, did you notice when maestro showed up? Of course,

[00:48:28] this is explained by the end of the episode. But we get the giggle arpeggio that we got from the

[00:48:34] 16th anniversary that ha ha ha ha ha ha. Right? Right. And, and the doctor calls it out right

[00:48:41] away. He's like, Oh, no, we're not doing this. I gotta run.

[00:48:46] Yeah, so it was I mean, we get explained by the end that that maestro is a child of the

[00:48:51] toy maker. But yet that actually kind of retroactive retroactively explains.

[00:48:58] I don't know, I guess it just there's explanation on both points on both sides,

[00:49:03] why they would have that arpeggio. Because a toy maker, of course, was taking it from like the pop

[00:49:07] up thing. And maestro is obviously musical. Yeah, yeah. So maestro as a villain, and this idea of

[00:49:19] this pantheon, because they use that word, I think the doctor uses it right? Right on of

[00:49:24] of new villains that have magical powers, basically. Mm hmm. Who's next?

[00:49:30] Yeah, so you think there's gonna be another kiddo showing up or something?

[00:49:34] I think yeah, it's a pantheon of children of the toy maker.

[00:49:38] Right? I mean, I feel like I should be looking at the episode names to see if there are any clues.

[00:49:44] But so we've had toys, music, something else playful that has to that speaks to the human

[00:49:50] soul. I don't know, maybe some sort of writing muse.

[00:49:54] Writing muse.

[00:49:56] Ooh, that'd be good. Maybe they could like control you via writing your story.

[00:50:03] Maybe the comedian shows up.

[00:50:07] Or the comedian. Yeah. Maybe they keep a Watchmen reference.

[00:50:12] I wonder if they're gonna keep the keep the, you know, having the North American accents for this

[00:50:19] pantheon. Yeah, I wonder why that is a thing.

[00:50:24] I mean, maybe it makes sense if they're all coming from the same place. But I guess on the one hand,

[00:50:29] it's to appeal to the new American audience, like, oh, here are some celebrities from your side of

[00:50:34] the world. But then on the other hand, it's also kind of funny to make it's a British show where

[00:50:40] the Americans, the Canadians are the are the villains.

[00:50:45] Yeah. And may I say the show has come a long way in depicting American accents,

[00:50:49] because I'm watching the gunfighter last night. And literally, they have an American accent

[00:50:57] saying that somebody went mental. And I'm like, that's not that's not something we say over here.

[00:51:06] Yeah, they, they were just like, all right, get the Brits to pretend to be Americans.

[00:51:10] Yeah, no, no, no, let's get the real North Americans.

[00:51:14] Right. Right.

[00:51:15] Um, I just loved though, for our main to the looks on their faces, you know, this was the

[00:51:21] episode where I especially was enjoying their reactions, especially, like when the Beatles

[00:51:25] started singing that dog song. Yeah, they were like, Oh, God,

[00:51:29] like, oh, no, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

[00:51:32] something is up. And I and I did like the interaction when it was like, Oh, can we see

[00:51:37] the Beatles make their first album? And she thinks that he's disappointed at first. And then

[00:51:42] he's just like, that is the greatest idea. Why haven't I done that? Yeah.

[00:51:48] No, fair enough. Why have they never gone back to the Beatles? I mean, they have they've been

[00:51:52] included in other ways. But yeah. Well, I'm, I thought it was honestly, hilarious that they

[00:51:59] did a whole Beatles episode with no Beatles songs. Yeah, I mean, I guess that's probably

[00:52:04] a rights thing. It's probably very expensive. I don't know what it is now. But back when I was

[00:52:10] in school for music production, I was told by by professors in the industry that like you could not

[00:52:16] just license one Beatles song, you had to license the full catalog. Oh, man. And it started at a

[00:52:21] million dollars. Oh, and that was like 10 years ago. I think it changed. ownership at some point

[00:52:29] was I don't know if that was before or after that. But yeah, Michael Jackson owned a large portion of

[00:52:34] it. And I think I think the Beatles have it again. I think I think McCartney has it again.

[00:52:38] Okay, but I could be wrong. Yeah. But regardless, I would expect Beatles songs are expensive.

[00:52:45] Yeah. But I love the lore behind it. Right? Like this was an in universe explanation of why you

[00:52:52] don't actually have Beatles songs. And that that was really clever. Yeah, no, I agree. No, I think

[00:52:57] they handled that well. Um, I mean, I guess I expected like the Beatles to be in on the adventure,

[00:53:03] I think it's probably better that they weren't because then it might have been distracting. Like,

[00:53:09] I don't know, that would be a little gimmicky. And you're expecting them to be mimicking the

[00:53:13] real ones. And right, that's not you don't want Paulson there the whole time. Like, doctor.

[00:53:20] Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So a question I had lore wise is, is this the consequence of Gallifrey's

[00:53:29] destruction? Because something that I've seen posited online is that Gallifrey was sort of

[00:53:35] holding this almost like in the MCU, you know, the sacred timeline, like this, there is,

[00:53:43] you know, people, different universes can't just come in here. There are walls of this universe,

[00:53:49] our rules of this universe, and without the Time Lords holding that together. Now people like the

[00:53:54] Toymaker and Maestro can come in. I mean, I would say on the one hand, that's that could be

[00:54:00] a source. But then I think the tipping point was that 60th anniversary special with the,

[00:54:06] you know, when he's saying it, you're what is it? enacting superstition at the edge of everything.

[00:54:15] And I invoked a superstition at the end of the edge of the universe,

[00:54:18] right. And so that lets entities in. So I'm assuming that that's the real tipping point

[00:54:23] where it's like, you know, when you have all these demon shows where you lock the demon in a circle

[00:54:29] of salt and you sort of brush it aside and they can slip through. Right? I think that's what

[00:54:33] happened during the 60th anniversary specials. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's right. We talked about

[00:54:42] Susan a little bit. Susan Foreman. This is the most discussion we've ever had about her in New Who.

[00:54:48] Right. Yeah, she showed up in a picture on Capaldi's desk. That was it.

[00:54:53] Right. I think they're definitely signaling to us that it's time to address this situation.

[00:54:58] I'm really glad because it's always felt like this weird blind spot that nobody wants to talk about.

[00:55:03] Like, oh, we don't talk about that side of the family. You know?

[00:55:05] Exactly. And maybe there's a good reason. But tell us. Give us.

[00:55:10] I think it's the doctor's guilt. Honestly, it's like I promised her I'd go back. It's

[00:55:14] been like 1000 years. What's going on? I mean, he has a time machine.

[00:55:19] Right. Right. Right. Yeah. And what's this weird comment that he made to Ruby about? Well,

[00:55:25] I don't know if the destruction of Gallifrey hurt her where she was like she was on Earth in the

[00:55:29] 25th century. How does that make sense? Yeah, exactly. I mean, this is I mean,

[00:55:35] maybe there's is there supposed to be some sort of tie to I don't know. I don't know.

[00:55:40] I don't know. There I will say there is a lower reason she would be able to

[00:55:47] get a time machine and start following the doctor is that later in the first doctor's run,

[00:55:53] we see that the Daleks to have time machines that time or it can operate.

[00:55:59] So I think that it's possible that because Susan stayed there after the Daleks were defeated.

[00:56:06] So I think it's possible that Susan finds a time machine and is like, Oh, I know how to use this.

[00:56:12] What if she was somehow banished to the other universe? And what if this is just, you know,

[00:56:19] swinging big here? What if you know, we hear in this episode, the one who waits is almost here?

[00:56:24] What if she's the one who waits? I like that a lot. I like that. She's she's leading an army

[00:56:34] against the doctor. Is that what it is? Maybe I mean, the one who unless the one who waits is

[00:56:38] what's his face Rory coming back? I hope not. I'm I love I love Rory. I'm a Rory and Amy Stan. But

[00:56:48] I know we've told that story. Yeah, that's over. Yeah, that's over.

[00:56:52] But I do like that they're carrying some things over. Like I love that

[00:56:56] they're still saying mavity instead of gravity because of the 60th anniversary special.

[00:57:00] So I wonder if if little things like that are going to be popping up where it's actually

[00:57:05] like punching a bunch of little different holes in the fabric at the edge of the universe through

[00:57:10] these butterfly effect moments. Yeah, that's a good question, because I don't think that we've seen

[00:57:17] such a dramatic effect of anything as we did in the intro of this, right? You step on a butterfly,

[00:57:24] literally, she is a different species. Yeah, they're emphasizing this butterfly effect. Yeah.

[00:57:31] So the question is, again, is the destruction of Gallifrey allowing time to be changed much

[00:57:36] more rapidly? Because you know, the doctor, I think in an earlier season of new who the doctor

[00:57:41] is like, Oh, well, you know, time, you can change a few things and time generally will correct

[00:57:45] itself. You know, history will correct itself. Even like the Van Gogh episode. It's not Van

[00:57:51] Gogh, you Brits. The Van Gogh episode. It's actually Van Gogh, but okay.

[00:57:58] Well, anyway, I will not be corrected by your European slander.

[00:58:04] This is the country he was born. And by the way, horror doesn't it's not it's just a way of saying

[00:58:11] like here anyway, sorry. That doesn't translate well. My whole point is, you know, you look at

[00:58:16] the Van Gogh stuff when the doctor shows him the impact he had on the world and he still takes his

[00:58:21] own life. And I think that's that was like how history worked in early new who, but now that

[00:58:29] Gallifrey is really gone, not just hidden. Now things can be changed much more rapidly and

[00:58:34] dramatically. Right? Yeah, I mean, because that would be an interesting way because one of the

[00:58:41] issues that this show has to contend with would have with having so many decades of lore built up

[00:58:48] is that it gets a bit messy. You're tripping over things you've already said and right,

[00:58:53] you can feel a bit locked in. So something like that could be an explanation, opening up

[00:59:00] new possibilities, sort of wiping the slate clean a bit more. Right? Yeah, like the secret wars of,

[00:59:08] you know, Marvel's gonna have secret wars to do that. And this could be that for

[00:59:11] Doctor Who. Right, right. Any other thoughts on this episode?

[00:59:18] Just I hope that I would love to see the Toymaker and I would love to see Maestro back again. So

[00:59:26] I'm hoping that maybe at the end of the season there's some big, you know,

[00:59:32] the whole family gets together. Avengers assemble. Right. Villains assemble.

[00:59:36] Yeah. Yeah. And it would remind me of, I don't remember the name of the episode or even the

[00:59:43] season, but when the 11th doctor is cornered by all the villains and they're like, we're all

[00:59:47] afraid of you, buddy. Like you're the problem. We all allied against you. Reminds me of that.

[00:59:54] One thing that struck me is I don't think we've ever seen the doctor revive something before.

[01:00:01] Right. Yeah. I was wondering like, is he he's giving away some of his regeneration energy,

[01:00:07] I guess? That's what I was thinking is, is this that he still has residual regeneration energy

[01:00:13] from the Christmas special or from, you know, assuming that there hasn't been a lot of time

[01:00:18] since the by generation. Right.

[01:00:22] I'm wondering. Well, how long was he watching Ruby?

[01:00:25] Because in the Christmas special, we see that he's kind of just everywhere that she happens to be.

[01:00:29] Yeah. Which I assume is on purpose.

[01:00:31] And I think, I think David Tennant has said like the first 24 hours after regeneration or something

[01:00:36] like that. Or is it coincidence? Sorry.

[01:00:38] Yeah. Or is it coincidence? But, but again, I don't know if we have to be

[01:00:44] controlled by the rules of previous statements of the doctors.

[01:00:47] Right. Rule number one, the doctor lies.

[01:00:50] Yeah. And the doctor doesn't know everything either. So there's that.

[01:00:54] Right. But I'm just me. I just mean, we're not dealing with eyes to die here.

[01:00:58] You know, the doctor can straight up tell.

[01:01:00] No, that's true. The doctor can just say a complete knowing untruth. Yeah.

[01:01:05] Right. Right.

[01:01:06] But we also trust on the doctor having a certain moral integrity.

[01:01:11] Yeah. But I think the question is, you know, when you're dealing with a villain,

[01:01:16] Yeah. But I think the question is, you know, when you're dealing with a villain that you need to

[01:01:20] defeat, otherwise, right, people are going to get hurt. I think it's morally justifiable to

[01:01:24] tell a lie to deceive them. Right. Okay. Okay.

[01:01:30] Anyway, anyway, I think that's it for me for the episode. Anything else?

[01:01:36] I know I'm just totally on board for what's going to happen this season. Like I said,

[01:01:42] give me the pantheon of the pantheon. Keep bringing on the fun villains and musical numbers.

[01:01:50] Don't tell John. Yeah, I didn't mind any of musical numbers except the goblin except the

[01:01:56] goblin. So I think I'll be okay if they do that. All right. Well, thanks everyone for listening.

[01:02:02] Let's get into our outro and show notes. Elisa, you've launched a new feed recently. Why don't

[01:02:07] you talk about it? Yes. So it's the Star Wars Canon timeline podcast. And we are just going

[01:02:15] through all of the Star Wars shows, books, games in timeline order. You don't have to have read or

[01:02:24] watched anything that unless or played or whatever, unless you feel like it. But we're doing a quick

[01:02:30] history blitz this month, going through like the dawn of the Star Wars universe and the Old Republic

[01:02:36] and leading into the Hyperpublic leading up to the Acolyte, which John, you and I will be covering

[01:02:41] on a weekly basis. Yes, you and I are going to be seeing more of each other over the next month.

[01:02:48] For a while, I didn't pod with you very often because you were always in that MCU stuff that

[01:02:53] I don't care about. But now we're doing the Star Wars thing together because David has abandoned

[01:02:58] Star Wars apparently. And you are also feeling Marvel, at least one Marvel thing these days?

[01:03:05] Yes, you and I are going to talk about X-Men 97 because I put it on because I was like,

[01:03:10] Oh, check it out. People are saying it's good. And I was just floored with how good it was.

[01:03:16] Yes. See everyone catch up and watch.

[01:03:19] And yeah, I'm someone who is not really a Marvel guy. And I loved it. So definitely check it out

[01:03:24] if you're at all into superhero stuff at all. I think I think something to know that I didn't

[01:03:29] know going into it, and until I looked it up, was that it's not like you don't have to

[01:03:36] know anything about the MCU really, because it's not connected to it.

[01:03:40] Right? Right. No, it's a different universe. And you also said that you haven't watched

[01:03:46] the original series from the 90s. And you're still following it just fine.

[01:03:51] Yeah, I haven't. Well, I probably saw like a little bit when I was a little kid.

[01:03:54] Right, right.

[01:03:54] I was born in 93.

[01:03:55] But nothing you remember.

[01:03:56] But yeah, I don't remember any of it. So yeah, I have I have nostalgia for other reasons. But

[01:04:02] I want to save it for the pod.

[01:04:03] Yeah, yeah. No, so but it just for people who haven't watched that you can still jump right in.

[01:04:08] And another recommendation. Another upcoming one shot is David and I are going to talk about

[01:04:13] Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes, which has now become my second favorite film of the year so far.

[01:04:18] Really?

[01:04:20] I really liked it.

[01:04:21] Very cool. Yeah, well, we've got other affiliates too, that I want to talk about.

[01:04:25] We've got Radioactive Ramblings. They are now covering Invincible and starting up a Fallout

[01:04:31] lore podcast. So that should be a lot of fun. Check out that feed over there. We've got a link

[01:04:38] tree in the show notes now. So it's a lot easier actually to find all this stuff.

[01:04:42] We've got Rings and Rituals every other week. Marilyn and Dr. Sarah Brown are talking about

[01:04:48] the Rings of Power season one through the lens of ritual, pulling from the greater Tolkien

[01:04:53] legendarium and having these really deep, fantastic conversations. So yeah, check it out.

[01:05:01] We've got we'll shift us what's going on over there.

[01:05:04] Yeah, this week, we have our next episode for Beacon 23 season two coming out covering

[01:05:10] episodes four through six.

[01:05:14] Cool. How's that season going?

[01:05:17] I mean, it's very so we've got different showrunners and we've got like major cast shakeups.

[01:05:21] So it's feeling very different and they're going with a different angle. But yeah, it's intriguing.

[01:05:27] And we have promises that it's all going to pull together in this back end. So I'm very

[01:05:33] curious to see how this season ends.

[01:05:35] Cool. Properly Howard movie review is of course, going strong with Anthony and Steve talking about

[01:05:42] felonies and fugazis. They are talking about all these crime based movies. They just did

[01:05:49] Pulp Fiction. I think this week, they're re releasing the Dune two conversation that you

[01:05:52] were on Alicia. And then they'll be back with gross point blank. exciting stuff.

[01:06:00] I like that movie.

[01:06:02] I haven't seen it. I haven't seen like any of these movies except. No, I don't think I've seen

[01:06:06] a single movie on this list actually. But it's a lot of fun. Okay. It's still a lot of fun. Like

[01:06:11] I been listening anyway. And they just joke around about the movies. I love hearing them debate like

[01:06:17] whether Keanu Reeves is a good actor or not. That's been a lot of fun.

[01:06:20] I have that debate within my own head all the time.

[01:06:25] You know, you know, it's funny is, is I think Steve made a case for like Keanu Reeves is a

[01:06:30] good actor in real life. So he's a terrible actor on screen because anyway, I can't I can't do it

[01:06:37] justice. You just got to listen to it. All right, break is a great one. Yeah. So like you said,

[01:06:43] Alicia, we're gonna be covering the acolyte you and me weekly on this feed and on the Star Wars

[01:06:47] canon timeline feed. We are David and I are going to be talking about House of the Dragon

[01:06:53] weekly, full coverage. We've already started our season one rewatch. And we've been doing two

[01:06:58] episodes at a time. Another episode will be out this week covering episodes five and six of season

[01:07:03] one. And of course, check out the show guide for that if you're a patron or supercast subscriber,

[01:07:08] you can get access to this really great show guide that I put together with the help of Aaron K and

[01:07:12] Brian 8063 on the discord. And we've put a character guide, Aaron made a family tree,

[01:07:19] we've got logos for all of the different houses. We've got a location guide, a faction guide,

[01:07:26] we've got everything, everything you need to know for season two is there and we even have a recap

[01:07:30] of season one in written form. With images it has pictures picture. Other projects coming up.

[01:07:39] This week, we have another Shireside chats coming. I'm going to record that this week and get that

[01:07:45] out. Nice. And yeah, David and I are also doing our Star Wars film fest on a new hope we're gonna

[01:07:53] be talking about the 1977 original Star Wars movie this week as well. So plenty of stuff coming on the

[01:07:59] feed. All right, let's do our thank yous. Alicia, relieve me.

[01:08:07] All right, so we've got a first to thank our discord server boosters Opus in the Machine

[01:08:12] Narls, Aaron K, Tiller the Thriller, Dork of the Ninjas and Dove 71. And then always our lore

[01:08:18] masters who make all this possible. Some Martian, Michael G, Michelle E, David W, Brian P, Nick W,

[01:08:26] SC, Peter O H, Bettina W, Adam S, Nancy M, Dove 71, Brian 8063, Frederick H, Sarah L, Gareth C,

[01:08:37] Eric F, Matthew M, Sarah M, DJ Miwa, Andra B, Kuang Yu, Jedi Jedi Bob, Nathan T, Alex V, Aaron T,

[01:08:46] Sub Zero, Aaron K, Dally V21, Mothership 61, Narls, and forever last, Adrian.

[01:08:58] I love the special requests. If anybody else has them, then they don't, they can't conflict with

[01:09:03] the existing special requests. So I'm going to say that. But yeah, if anybody else has them,

[01:09:09] we're happy to incorporate.

[01:09:11] Keeps it fresh.

[01:09:13] Yeah, exactly. Keeps us giggling. So a lot of fun talking to you about Doctor Who, Alicia. I think

[01:09:20] this is going to be an exciting season. I wonder if I can convince you to come back more frequently

[01:09:24] than we've already discussed, but I know we're both busy.

[01:09:27] Yeah, well, let's play it by ear. But it's a promising season. And I hope that lots of people

[01:09:34] are going to be using this new entry point as an excuse to get on board.

[01:09:39] Definitely, definitely. And I think next episode is written by Stephen Moffat, right?

[01:09:44] Right. Yeah, that's gonna be a big deal.

[01:09:46] Yeah. So I might call you up and say, Alicia, I need to talk about this.

[01:09:50] Yeah, we might. Yeah, we might. We might have to just because especially for that one. That's the

[01:09:56] one that I'm most curious about going into this season, to be honest.

[01:10:00] I think too, this show is not so dense where we have to do a full

[01:10:04] scene by scene recap. And we could have like a quick half hour pod on a single episode. And I

[01:10:08] think that would be good. That's true. You make a good point.

[01:10:13] I'll sell you on it. Eventually, I'll recruit you to the to the TARDIS again.

[01:10:18] All right. So I just want to say because I didn't do the pitch earlier and

[01:10:23] I don't want to forget to say that the Patreon supercast stuff gets you for as little as three

[01:10:29] bucks a month, you can get early and ad free episodes like this will go out, I think a day

[01:10:32] before the public feed. You will get the show guides, you will get the show tracker where

[01:10:39] you can see a timeline view that David made, where you can see everything that's coming.

[01:10:43] And you get some exclusive episodes like second breakfast, which Alicia is now on,

[01:10:47] where we talk about everything and nothing. And we talk about a breakfast food every month.

[01:10:51] I think we're doing a poll this month that patrons are voting on.

[01:10:55] Yeah, I was going to campaign for a particular movie, but we said we weren't going to say who

[01:10:58] voted for it. Fair enough. So we've got Scott Pilgrim versus the world, Eternal Sunshine of

[01:11:04] the Spotless Mind and Zoolander competing for the movie that we talk about on second breakfast. So

[01:11:10] if you're a patron supercast subscriber, get on that poll. It's a great time. And if you're not,

[01:11:15] you could still vote in the poll for I think another few days. So get on it quick.

[01:11:21] Thanks, everyone, for being with us on our journey through time and space.

[01:11:25] We will see you next week.

[01:11:55] Hey, everyone. Welcome to Star Wars Day. I'm excited to introduce the new Star Wars Canon timeline podcast,

[01:12:00] where we will piece together the complete story of that galaxy far, far away in timeline order

[01:12:06] from the dawn of the Jedi through the great unknown following the sequel trilogy.

[01:12:10] This is a podcast for both Star Wars super fans and complete newbies.

[01:12:15] Listen to the short intro episode now to hear how it works and what to expect over the coming weeks

[01:12:20] as we set the stage for the new television series The Acolyte, which we will be covering with weekly

[01:12:25] breakdowns. Subscribe to the Star Wars Canon timeline podcast wherever you listen to take

[01:12:31] part in one of the most epic and expansive stories ever told following all the twists and turns from

[01:12:36] start to finish. May the fourth be with you all, all month and beyond.