Doctor Who - S01E05 - 73 Yards

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Sonic Screwcast, where the Lorehounds are your guides to all of Wales.

[00:00:21] I'm John.

[00:00:22] And I'm Alicia, and this is our coverage of the BBC and Disney Plus series Doctor Who.

[00:00:28] In this episode, we'll be discussing Season 1, Episode 5, titled 73 Yards.

[00:00:34] And as much as we're enjoying letting you listen in on our conversations about the show,

[00:00:38] we would love to hear your thoughts as well.

[00:00:41] So please do send us an email at TARDIS at the lorehounds.com or visit our website at

[00:00:46] the lorehounds.com slash contact.

[00:00:48] And there you can either use the contact form or leave us a voicemail which we can drop

[00:00:52] right into the episode.

[00:00:54] And of course, we'd love for you to join our discord server.

[00:00:57] We have a fun community.

[00:00:59] We're chatting about Doctor Who and a bunch of other shows and books and games and everything

[00:01:04] else.

[00:01:05] Also, please consider supporting us on Supercast or Patreon for as little as three bucks a

[00:01:10] month.

[00:01:11] You get ad free episodes, show guides, much more.

[00:01:14] Subscribing is a great way to help us make more timey wimey podcasts and afford to pay

[00:01:19] on our magic phones.

[00:01:21] And of course, all those links are in the show notes below.

[00:01:24] All right, Alicia.

[00:01:26] We're back with our weekly Who coverage that I bullied you into like the Welsh bullied Ruby.

[00:01:33] Well, now I am very glad for it because I like this episode even better than Boom.

[00:01:39] Yeah, this was really good.

[00:01:41] This was really, really good.

[00:01:42] I was watching and it felt like we were right back in like the peak RTD era.

[00:01:47] Right, exactly.

[00:01:48] Yeah, this is...

[00:01:50] I saw someone online called it like the most Torchwoody episode.

[00:01:52] I'm like, yes.

[00:01:54] I see that's the RTD influence is why I like Torchwood so much.

[00:01:57] Yeah, super good.

[00:02:01] So what were your thoughts on this episode overall?

[00:02:04] I know we're going to go right into spoilers.

[00:02:05] So if you've not watched the episode, please leave, watch it and come back.

[00:02:11] Go 73 yards away.

[00:02:12] Sorry, go ahead.

[00:02:13] Exactly.

[00:02:14] So, I mean, it was a bold choice to have no doctor for most of the episode, especially

[00:02:19] this new into like a new companion and a new doctor.

[00:02:24] But for me, that really worked because it just added to that, the growing feeling of

[00:02:29] dread and helplessness that was building throughout the episode.

[00:02:33] I love it was I mean, it's Welsh folk horrors.

[00:02:36] So that's literally one of my favorite genres.

[00:02:41] And it feels like a bit of the anti It Follows also, which is one of my favorite horror movies.

[00:02:48] I've seen that one.

[00:02:49] I saw that one in theaters when it came out.

[00:02:51] And what do you think of it?

[00:02:53] I liked it a lot.

[00:02:54] I thought it was it was a lot of fun.

[00:02:56] They Follow comes out next year.

[00:02:57] I'm very excited.

[00:02:58] Really?

[00:02:59] You got to make plans.

[00:03:01] This is like the anti version of that in a way because in that it's still the creeping

[00:03:05] dread but there you have someone relentlessly walking the same pace to catch up to you and

[00:03:10] here it's you know, you can't confront what's following you because it's always 73 yards

[00:03:16] away.

[00:03:17] Right.

[00:03:19] I like that a lot.

[00:03:20] It's a it's an interesting concept to have something always near you.

[00:03:24] Semper distance.

[00:03:26] Right, exactly.

[00:03:28] Yeah.

[00:03:29] And have you ever watched the Davies show years and years?

[00:03:34] No.

[00:03:35] It's a limited series and it's one that I think about all the time.

[00:03:39] I don't know.

[00:03:40] I watched it years and years ago.

[00:03:41] No, it's not that old.

[00:03:42] Like, I don't know, five to 10 years old.

[00:03:46] But it's about, it follows this family in the UK through years and years and covers

[00:03:53] all of these like a mix of some technological points.

[00:03:57] Like there's someone who's a transhumanist also other like immigration from a personal

[00:04:03] angle and it's just kind of one of those shows that touches on everything with the full roller

[00:04:07] coaster of emotions and this episode reminded me of that a lot.

[00:04:12] So I'd say anyone who liked this episode, check out years and years.

[00:04:15] Okay, sounds good.

[00:04:17] Yeah, this was, you know, making people get old to confront themselves is definitely an

[00:04:24] RTD thing.

[00:04:25] I mean, see the doctor in the specials before he left or was that the specials or was that

[00:04:30] his penultimate season?

[00:04:33] I don't remember.

[00:04:34] I don't remember what happened in what episode anymore.

[00:04:36] You've watched more recently than I have.

[00:04:38] I think it was the first master run.

[00:04:41] It was the first, you know, Saxon master.

[00:04:44] All right.

[00:04:45] Yeah, I mean, I thought this was a great episode at first I watched it and I was like, wait,

[00:04:50] that's the ending.

[00:04:51] And I was I was a little disappointed.

[00:04:53] And then the more I thought about it, I was more into it then on second watch because

[00:04:57] I showed my wife this episode who is not at all a whovian.

[00:05:01] She's very not like anti-who but certainly no interest would not choose to watch it.

[00:05:08] Yeah.

[00:05:09] I was like, you got to watch this one because she loved it follows.

[00:05:11] I was like, right.

[00:05:12] Kind of similar.

[00:05:13] Why don't you try this one?

[00:05:14] And she liked it.

[00:05:15] So this was I don't know if it would be a good starter for anyone, but I think it was

[00:05:20] a good starter for her.

[00:05:22] I messaged my sister too, because, you know, they watched the first episode so far and

[00:05:26] I know why they haven't had time to catch up on stuff.

[00:05:28] But I was like, episode five is Welsh folk horror.

[00:05:33] You've gotten the whole Alicia clan into Welsh folk.

[00:05:37] Oh, well, I mean, because my our interest in the Welsh side probably just comes from

[00:05:42] us.

[00:05:43] That's our mom's side of the family being Welsh.

[00:05:46] And then my sister and I just yeah, I grew up had a love of horror.

[00:05:51] I transferred that to her.

[00:05:53] We talk about it a lot.

[00:05:54] So if anyone's interested in the Wolshift Dust breakdown of the House, the fall of the

[00:05:58] House of Usher.

[00:05:59] But so I transferred that love of horror to her.

[00:06:02] And yeah, obviously this genre fits in with our identities as sisters.

[00:06:09] Yeah.

[00:06:10] Cool.

[00:06:11] All right.

[00:06:13] Shall we get into the full episode?

[00:06:15] Yes.

[00:06:16] Here's a synopsis.

[00:06:19] The Doctor and Ruby land on the coast of Wales where the doctor breaks a fairy circle and

[00:06:24] disappears.

[00:06:26] An old woman begins whispering and signing something at Ruby from a distance.

[00:06:30] No matter where Ruby goes, she follows.

[00:06:33] Ruby makes her way to a local pub where she's bullied by the Welsh.

[00:06:38] She then she sees that every time somebody talks to the woman, they look at Ruby and

[00:06:43] run in fear.

[00:06:44] Ruby returns home to her mom who tries to talk to the woman for her but runs away in

[00:06:48] fear and disowns Ruby.

[00:06:50] Kate Lethbridge Stewart offers her help, but her whole team abandons Ruby when they approach

[00:06:57] the woman.

[00:06:59] Ruby then sees Roger App William campaigning for prime minister and remembers the doctor

[00:07:04] calling him the most dangerous prime minister in history.

[00:07:09] She volunteers for his campaign and uses the Semper Distens Woman to make William run away

[00:07:14] before he can launch his recently acquired nuclear weapons.

[00:07:19] Forty years later at the end of her life, Ruby is in a care home trying to sleep when

[00:07:25] the strange woman begins to come closer.

[00:07:28] Ruby flashes through time and finds herself as the older woman warning the doctor and

[00:07:33] her young self not to step.

[00:07:36] Young Ruby stops the doctor from breaking the circle and the doctor avoids being taken

[00:07:39] away.

[00:07:40] So, yeah, I thought it was very interesting that they also literally point out in this

[00:07:50] that the cliff tops are a boundary between land and sea and then say word for word, a

[00:07:56] liminal space where rules are suspended, which reminded me a whole lot of that 60th

[00:08:02] anniversary special at the edge of space.

[00:08:06] Also I just want to like sit down and have lunch with that woman who's inventing words

[00:08:13] and talking about the liminal spaces.

[00:08:16] I just I feel like you just say something to her and she'll come out with something

[00:08:20] genius.

[00:08:21] Listen, the Welsh are a lyrical people.

[00:08:23] It's in the blood.

[00:08:26] The blood is everywhere according to them.

[00:08:29] You know why we have so many castles?

[00:08:31] Yeah, torture.

[00:08:33] Man, they got me with the magic phone bit, I got to say that.

[00:08:37] I was like, oh, is she in like the 80s or something?

[00:08:39] Yeah, I didn't know what year it was.

[00:08:41] So I was like this, but I understand it's a bit insulting if it is 2024 or whatever.

[00:08:46] Right, right.

[00:08:47] That sparked some debate in our Discord if the Welsh were too mean.

[00:08:51] I saw this comment on Reddit that made me laugh that said a bunch of people just asking

[00:08:56] you why would you do that is very Welsh.

[00:09:03] It was a really fun pub scene, though.

[00:09:04] I really love the way that they introduced the magic with some levity.

[00:09:08] Like they they really like get you sucked into and you're like, oh, this is going to

[00:09:11] be really camp and really, you know, like explicit magic.

[00:09:17] And then when they're messing with her, I'm like, oh, that was a really good way to sort

[00:09:21] of tease the magic, but not take it too seriously.

[00:09:24] Right, exactly.

[00:09:26] And we have to point out that the hiker she meets on the way is now the most explicit

[00:09:31] meeting she's had with Susan Twist.

[00:09:33] And she asks her because now she saw her directly, you know, in the last episode as the as the

[00:09:40] A.I. in the ambulance.

[00:09:42] And now she asks her, have I met you before?

[00:09:45] So we are seeing this whatever being Susan Twist is playing, coming more and more to

[00:09:50] the foreground.

[00:09:51] But do you think the hiker knows that she's all these different people or do you think

[00:09:59] there's something else?

[00:10:00] I don't know.

[00:10:01] I don't know if it's that or if it's like a Clara situation where she's like in these

[00:10:05] different time.

[00:10:06] Right, exactly.

[00:10:07] That's what I'm wondering if she's like split or something.

[00:10:12] So Susan Twist is not Mrs. Flood, right?

[00:10:16] No.

[00:10:17] So we also got Mrs. Flood and it seemed like she only shows up for a second to nag and

[00:10:20] doesn't say anything else that intriguing.

[00:10:22] So it's just it feels like they're just reminding us that she's there and they're seeding that

[00:10:27] for later.

[00:10:28] But it feels like the Susan Twist thing they're putting forward more in the forefront.

[00:10:31] Well, there was a theory for a while that Mrs. Flood was older Ruby.

[00:10:36] And I think that can be put to bed now.

[00:10:38] Because we know what Ruby looks like.

[00:10:40] Right.

[00:10:41] Good point.

[00:10:42] Yeah.

[00:10:43] Did you notice at one point they were showing a transition with Ruby playing with her ear?

[00:10:50] I haven't really noticed that before.

[00:10:51] I don't know if she's been doing that all along, but I'm going to be paying attention

[00:10:54] if there is a reason why they kind of zoomed in on that or if that was just used for the

[00:10:58] sake of transition.

[00:10:59] I didn't notice that, but I see what you're saying there and that's interesting if there's

[00:11:04] something there.

[00:11:06] Yeah.

[00:11:07] What do you think about the return of Kate Lethbridge Stewart?

[00:11:12] Yeah, it was.

[00:11:14] So we got units explained for the newbies and that's good.

[00:11:19] But also just this escalating thing where like first her mom runs away and then so like

[00:11:25] home isn't even safe.

[00:11:27] And then you see when Kate Lethbridge Stewart shows up or like, oh, units here.

[00:11:31] Oh, thank God.

[00:11:32] You know, and then they all run away too.

[00:11:34] And it's just the building, the building dread.

[00:11:38] But I also have to shout out that it's funny that also this week, I can't help but draw

[00:11:42] parallels with what else I'm watching.

[00:11:44] But in an interview with the Vampire, they introduced a prominent similar organization

[00:11:49] there called the Tala Mosca.

[00:11:51] Oh, that's funny.

[00:11:52] That's funny.

[00:11:53] You know what's funny?

[00:11:54] Yeah.

[00:11:55] Sorry, go ahead.

[00:11:56] I was going to say, did you notice Kate Lethbridge Stewart had red nails, which I saw side by

[00:12:01] side images from this episode and from the 60th anniversary when a red nailed hand picks

[00:12:07] up a golden tooth?

[00:12:10] Oh, interesting.

[00:12:13] The master might rear his ugly head again.

[00:12:16] Yeah.

[00:12:17] Also, can we just say with Roger App William being referred to as the most dangerous prime

[00:12:24] minister in history, I'm just looking at Harold Saxon going, do I mean nothing to you?

[00:12:31] Yeah.

[00:12:32] And I also wonder, well, first of all, just have to shout out that the actor playing him

[00:12:37] was Anurin Barnard, who I think you watched 1899, right?

[00:12:41] I did not.

[00:12:42] Oh, you did not.

[00:12:43] Okay, sorry.

[00:12:44] But he was one of the main characters in there, so I had recognized him from that.

[00:12:48] I'm a fan of his.

[00:12:51] So I wondered if the doctor, because the doctor brought him up at the beginning before he

[00:12:57] disappeared, but then that was all in this whole alternate timeline.

[00:13:00] So how did the doctor remember him in the beginning?

[00:13:02] Does he still exist after that?

[00:13:03] Could we have an overlapping time loop situation a la Dark?

[00:13:08] Yeah, I don't know.

[00:13:10] I don't know if that ever happens, that Ruby stops this guy.

[00:13:14] So maybe they'll have to stop him again later.

[00:13:16] Interesting.

[00:13:17] Yeah.

[00:13:18] Or maybe he was stopped a different way in the main timeline.

[00:13:21] Who knows?

[00:13:22] We might just let this go.

[00:13:23] Especially with an actor like that, it would be nice to use it more than once.

[00:13:26] Yeah, yeah.

[00:13:27] Yeah.

[00:13:28] By the way, I dropped.

[00:13:30] I realized that we're trying to do this podcast for new and old whovians.

[00:13:33] So Harold Saxon, what I refer to there is a character that was really the master, which

[00:13:40] is this adversary of the doctor stemming all the way from the classic series and through

[00:13:44] new who and basically the master pretended to be human and became the prime minister

[00:13:50] of Britain and did a lot of bad stuff, did like a whole lot of bad stuff.

[00:13:56] So that's why I'm making the joke of do I mean nothing to you?

[00:14:00] And also to elaborate on what I said, the master was last referred to in the 60th anniversary

[00:14:06] special when the toy maker who we talked about with the maestro episode, the toy maker

[00:14:13] said that he had the master in his gold tooth.

[00:14:16] And then after the toy maker was taken care of, a gold tooth was on the ground and a red

[00:14:20] fingernail hand picked it up.

[00:14:23] Do you think that if it was Kate, do you think that she wanted the master as like a surety

[00:14:34] against the doctor in case the doctor goes rogue?

[00:14:37] I don't know.

[00:14:38] Does Kate play like that?

[00:14:40] I don't know.

[00:14:41] I mean, would you unleash would Kate be the same type of person to unleash a bad guy to

[00:14:47] stop?

[00:14:48] I don't know.

[00:14:49] I mean, I could see on the one hand she's like, well, let's just, you know, for safekeeping,

[00:14:54] let's pick this up.

[00:14:56] And then maybe later, yeah, there is something that makes her feel like she has to force

[00:15:00] her hand.

[00:15:02] I'm calling it.

[00:15:03] We're getting a Suicide Squad spin off led by Kate Lethbridge Stewart.

[00:15:09] Yeah.

[00:15:10] By the way, I've been I've been binging classic who I finished the second doctor's era and

[00:15:14] I'm into the third now.

[00:15:16] And Kate's dad is a cool dude.

[00:15:20] He's all over the place.

[00:15:21] I mean, especially the third doctor, the doctor is exiled on earth and just gets a job at

[00:15:26] unit.

[00:15:27] Yeah.

[00:15:28] And that's just the whole thing.

[00:15:29] And I think that's what people were hoping with with David Tennant being, you know, hanging

[00:15:33] out with Donna, but being a consultant for unit.

[00:15:36] I mean, he could show up eventually like that.

[00:15:38] But I agree with the people who say there should be some time to let Judy got what

[00:15:44] really inhabit the role more.

[00:15:45] Oh, I agree.

[00:15:47] Can I ask you, though, even if it's off screen, why didn't Kate reach out to 14 to help with

[00:15:54] the missing doctor situation?

[00:15:56] Um, why?

[00:15:59] Yeah, that's a good question.

[00:16:04] Maybe in this, in this version, he doesn't exist or I don't know.

[00:16:07] Or maybe she.

[00:16:09] I mean, maybe she went to Ruby first and then immediately it was like, OK, step one, let's

[00:16:14] confront the woman and then whatever the woman said, you know, it seems like whenever the

[00:16:18] woman speaks to someone, they just drop the whole thing forever.

[00:16:22] Yeah, but also she is asked by Ruby, like how does the world get on without the doctor?

[00:16:29] And Kate replies, well, that's that's classified.

[00:16:32] Is she referring to 14 there or is she referring to something?

[00:16:34] Oh, yeah, that could be a good point.

[00:16:37] That could be.

[00:16:38] Also, somebody made a great joke on Reddit.

[00:16:40] They said when it's how does the world get on without the doctor?

[00:16:44] Kate turns to Cameron says for twenty four ninety nine, you can get the big finish audio

[00:16:48] of me and the rest of units saving the world.

[00:16:54] I love actually there's been some good doctor who audio drama.

[00:16:58] So, oh, I agree.

[00:16:59] I'm currently going through the ninth doctor ones.

[00:17:01] OK, oh, cool.

[00:17:02] Cool.

[00:17:03] You know, they got Christopher back.

[00:17:05] They got Eccleston back.

[00:17:06] Oh, yeah.

[00:17:07] Yeah, I did hear that.

[00:17:08] I haven't listened to those.

[00:17:09] I need to I need to go back and at least rewatch the ninth era because I feel like I lacked

[00:17:15] a proper appreciation that in retrospect, I think is due.

[00:17:20] Yeah, I, I like nine better now than I did before for sure.

[00:17:26] I like him better than the first doctor, that's for sure.

[00:17:29] OK, fair.

[00:17:33] All right.

[00:17:34] What else we got here?

[00:17:36] Go ahead.

[00:17:36] Well, so OK, so I have questions about the future.

[00:17:41] First of all, this is maybe just a random world building timeline thing.

[00:17:44] But so when Roger when Roger is saying he says the app in my name means that, you know,

[00:17:53] that I'm the son of Wales, it's not like the apps you used to have in your phone in the

[00:17:57] old days. And first I groaned at that and then I was like, wait a minute, apps are gone.

[00:18:04] There's no more apps in this world.

[00:18:08] Yeah, yeah.

[00:18:09] I think it's weird because it does seem like she's using something on her phone to

[00:18:16] measure distance.

[00:18:18] But they don't call them apps anymore.

[00:18:22] Yeah, that seems like one of those silly science fiction things where you're just

[00:18:26] like, oh, we don't do that anymore.

[00:18:29] But I don't think that's plausible.

[00:18:31] I think that we will still have apps.

[00:18:33] We'll just maybe they call something else.

[00:18:35] Yeah. I don't know.

[00:18:37] Yeah, I do like, though, how the Marty character was handled.

[00:18:42] That was very subtly done where it seems like she probably experienced a sexual assault

[00:18:47] from him. I'm going to ask you about that.

[00:18:49] Like what was the deal with her in general?

[00:18:52] And I guess that's why Ruby's apologizing to her.

[00:18:55] Like I couldn't save you.

[00:18:56] Right. I didn't do it soon enough because Ruby was as soon as he's like, oh, who's that

[00:19:00] over there? Ruby was kind of you could tell her red flag was, you know,

[00:19:05] going up. But so my question is, why did Ruby have to wait?

[00:19:12] I maybe I mean, so that maybe this ties in.

[00:19:16] I think it's possible we learn later what Ruby what the woman was saying to the

[00:19:20] people who came up and talked to her and ran away.

[00:19:24] But maybe Ruby needed to be alone to figure it out.

[00:19:32] Hmm. I was alone for years, for like 15 years before that.

[00:19:35] Yeah. Well, yeah, for a long time.

[00:19:38] I did love how and I don't know why it continued after that.

[00:19:42] The woman there the whole time, I guess to make that connection to for her to jump back

[00:19:47] in the past. But I love an alternate timeline story.

[00:19:49] And this one I thought did it well.

[00:19:52] And I love the fact that Ruby can never directly confront what's chasing her because

[00:19:58] it's always 73 yards away so she can never get closer.

[00:20:01] She just has to live with it until she.

[00:20:04] I don't know why on her deathbed she makes that jump.

[00:20:07] Did you expect the woman to be Ruby?

[00:20:10] I kind of did think at a certain point I was like, oh, that's old Ruby warning.

[00:20:15] I really did. I like halfway through the episode I was like, I think that's just her.

[00:20:19] Yeah, I did too.

[00:20:21] But then I wondered if it could be her mom also.

[00:20:22] And then now I have like new theories brewing.

[00:20:26] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:20:27] But I don't know.

[00:20:28] Damon Targaryen sure was harassing Ruby a lot in this episode.

[00:20:34] But yeah, I I I don't understand why she needed to wait.

[00:20:38] And I and I also don't think that.

[00:20:45] I don't think that the the specter of Ruby, old Ruby was meant to get rid of William.

[00:20:53] I think that was just something that Ruby did with it.

[00:20:56] Right. Because then otherwise, why stick around after that?

[00:21:00] Right. I think that this was just her warning her through her whole life.

[00:21:04] Like you're not supposed to be in this timeline.

[00:21:06] Right. But there's also so she's doing sign language the whole time.

[00:21:11] So I don't speak British Sign Language, but I can tell

[00:21:15] I could tell that she was saying something about love.

[00:21:18] So I had to look it up.

[00:21:19] And apparently the official translations from on ITV,

[00:21:24] they have this doctor who unleashed after show.

[00:21:26] And they said the translation is bless you.

[00:21:28] Thank you so much.

[00:21:29] That's so kind of you.

[00:21:30] When you gave me that little thing, it was just so precious.

[00:21:33] How am I ever going to repay you?

[00:21:35] But we will think of something.

[00:21:36] And then starting over from bless you.

[00:21:38] Thank you so much, et cetera, et cetera.

[00:21:41] I guess to the doctor.

[00:21:43] But it seemed to be to Ruby because she's signing it to Ruby the whole time.

[00:21:49] Oh, OK. So then I'm like, what if Ruby's her own mother?

[00:21:54] But I don't know.

[00:21:56] I just there seems to be something.

[00:21:59] And then to the other thing is this 73 yards thing.

[00:22:03] So I had to look up like what could 73?

[00:22:05] Why specifically that number?

[00:22:07] And something I found that I found really interesting is that

[00:22:12] so when you ham amateur ham radio users,

[00:22:16] they apparently sign off by saying 73.

[00:22:19] And they translate that as saying that means best regards.

[00:22:22] But where it actually comes from is that the telegraphers like they

[00:22:28] in the early days, they were sending messages so much.

[00:22:31] They didn't want to be repetitive.

[00:22:33] So they started substituting numbers to mean different things.

[00:22:36] And they actually in 1857, they published a code and

[00:22:42] National Telegraphic Review Operators Guide

[00:22:45] that codified these numbers and what they mean.

[00:22:47] And 73 literally meant then my love to you.

[00:22:53] Huh? I like that a lot.

[00:22:56] That's cool.

[00:22:57] I wonder if that had to be intentional, right?

[00:22:59] Like 70. Yeah, so specific.

[00:23:01] Yeah. And apparently Davies was like measuring out literally 73 yards for it.

[00:23:06] It seems like an important number to him behind the scenes.

[00:23:09] That feels obnoxious for the actors.

[00:23:12] Like, how am I going to tell?

[00:23:15] That just feels obnoxious.

[00:23:17] I'm so sorry, older Ruby or whoever was the stand in.

[00:23:20] I don't know if it was the actor for older Ruby, but it was because

[00:23:25] oh, we just can't photograph her face. It's crazy.

[00:23:28] Yeah. Oh, creeping dread.

[00:23:31] Yeah. I don't I don't love faceless things, you know.

[00:23:33] Remember the whole Slenderman thing?

[00:23:35] Mm hmm. Yeah, it was a whole thing.

[00:23:37] That was a whole thing when I was in high school.

[00:23:39] Somebody sent me like videos on that and that freaked me out.

[00:23:43] Yeah. Well, what did you think about?

[00:23:46] They called attention to the snow again, like when she's in this alternate timeline.

[00:23:50] She's like, I used to be able to call up snow.

[00:23:53] And like, that's nice. Dottie, old lady.

[00:23:55] I know. I love that. I love that.

[00:23:57] But she's all with it, too, right?

[00:23:59] Like I think the older Ruby is still very much with.

[00:24:03] Yeah. Oh, yeah. She she's like, yeah, they don't believe me.

[00:24:05] And I don't feel like putting in the effort to explain.

[00:24:07] Yeah. Whatever.

[00:24:08] Yeah, because right before that was a thing that lights she's like

[00:24:11] lights worked the same when I was a kid,

[00:24:13] which is kind of funny because she's the one who goes, do you take you know?

[00:24:18] Do you take Apple pay?

[00:24:19] Right. Go to show you.

[00:24:22] Which honestly, I think they reacted too harshly to that.

[00:24:25] A lot of places don't take Apple pay.

[00:24:27] Yeah. No, I think they were just they just decided to have some fun with this girl.

[00:24:32] Maybe they judged her the moment she walked in

[00:24:35] and she's like barely dressed with short shorts and stuff. Mm hmm.

[00:24:39] Yeah, I think so, too, although I'll say England is very Apple pay.

[00:24:45] Like, yeah, but also maybe that's mobile pay.

[00:24:49] Yeah, but that's the thing.

[00:24:50] This is Wales and they're used to the English coming in and being like,

[00:24:53] oh, you think we don't have technology and right. Right.

[00:24:57] I mean, in fairness, you got candled out like like what are you going to do?

[00:25:00] It's atmospheric. Yeah. Fair enough. Fair enough.

[00:25:04] I don't know some of those guys like that seemed like such a mismatch

[00:25:09] mismatch group of people.

[00:25:11] You know, you have like the the punks. Mm hmm.

[00:25:15] You had the older man who's like, you know, blue collar coded. Right.

[00:25:19] You have, you know, this old woman who's like a philosopher. Right.

[00:25:24] Yeah. Small town, one place to hang out.

[00:25:27] It's just funny.

[00:25:27] Like that's so many different people in one room. Yeah.

[00:25:33] I wonder if like like the young kids,

[00:25:35] one of them could have been somebody's grandkids who are there, you know, just

[00:25:38] it's just a small town and where do you go? Yeah.

[00:25:43] So the magic thing, I want to talk about that, too.

[00:25:46] What was that?

[00:25:48] Because, you know, you have the whole thing with William later saying

[00:25:51] oh, well, they called me Mad Jack.

[00:25:53] But was that connected to the letters and how?

[00:25:57] I mean, somehow it seems to be, but it's

[00:26:03] it does this in any way, this whole affecting us

[00:26:07] permanent, barely noticeable change in reality?

[00:26:10] Does it in any way tie to, for instance, what we see with the fact

[00:26:13] they use mavity instead of gravity because of what happened in the 60th special?

[00:26:18] Right.

[00:26:19] And if listeners who haven't watched the 60th special

[00:26:22] are starting to get the feeling they should, then yeah, go for it. Yeah.

[00:26:25] I think there's three episodes. You can do it. I believe in you.

[00:26:28] There's some good groundwork laid that I think is going to be coming back.

[00:26:31] Like, you know, there was just a delight. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:26:34] Yeah. It's it's it's a good episode.

[00:26:37] This episode, I it makes me think so hard about. Yeah.

[00:26:44] And I think there's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's

[00:26:48] and I think there's it's two cases.

[00:26:51] So, yeah, my favorite episodes are the ones that you have to think about

[00:26:54] for a little while after to make sense.

[00:26:56] But then also, I wonder what fall, how the episodes that follow the rest

[00:27:01] of the season might change our perception of this episode or answer some questions.

[00:27:05] We have lingering.

[00:27:08] And we're also building the same theme of magic through the season.

[00:27:12] You have Kate Lethbridge Stewart saying things are turning more supernatural these days.

[00:27:17] Mm hmm. And that's different.

[00:27:19] And she mentions that they're wearing salt, right?

[00:27:21] Oh, I missed that. OK.

[00:27:24] Yes. But when when she's trying to say like, oh, the woman is not going to be able to affect us,

[00:27:27] she's like, oh, we have psychic training.

[00:27:29] We're wearing salt necklaces or something like that.

[00:27:32] So, yeah, it's it's definitely like whatever the 14th doctor did on the edge

[00:27:37] of the universe definitely messed some stuff up.

[00:27:40] Yeah. I feel like the answer of what the woman was saying to people to get them to run away.

[00:27:45] That answers must still be coming because it's too big of a question to not address.

[00:27:51] Yeah, I agree with that.

[00:27:55] The other thing is I really do think and I think I mentioned this last podcast,

[00:27:59] but I think that we are building to this idea that without the time lords alive at all,

[00:28:05] because before they were hidden away, but they were still around.

[00:28:08] Mm hmm. Without the time lords around kind of guarding what you think of as the sacred timeline

[00:28:14] in MCU terms, a lot of weird stuff is coming in.

[00:28:19] Yeah. And magic is real again.

[00:28:22] Right. It's it's all like the that whole idea they keep repeating of, you know,

[00:28:28] there being a sort of demon circle and somebody smudged the salt and it's just letting stuff through.

[00:28:34] Like, yeah, that again now from the water to the land on the liminal cliff side.

[00:28:39] Yeah. There's definitely a recurring theme.

[00:28:43] And the question is, obviously we know the pantheon maestro and toy master.

[00:28:47] That's something that was let through.

[00:28:49] But is everything else linked to them or are there other entities or forces at play?

[00:28:56] I don't know.

[00:28:58] There's also I wonder if we're going to have any more rogue time lords.

[00:29:01] I mean, maybe I'm just thinking in classic who terms because I've been watching classic who and I've already met.

[00:29:08] Yeah. Well, the Ronnie doesn't show up to the seventh doctor, but I've already met the monk and the war chief as far as time lords.

[00:29:17] And I'm like, man, are we going to get the master?

[00:29:20] Are we going to get a we're going to get the monk at some point?

[00:29:22] I don't know if the monk dies in classic who.

[00:29:25] But the point is there's plenty of other rogue time lords around.

[00:29:28] And does it ever really die?

[00:29:30] How many times has the master died?

[00:29:33] Right, right.

[00:29:33] Well, we did see zombified cyber time lords in the 13th Doctor's Hour.

[00:29:39] I'm still mad at at Chibnall for destroying Gallifrey.

[00:29:43] I really am.

[00:29:44] I think that it was so silly to destroy it right after it came back.

[00:29:49] Yeah, I mean, but again with Doctor Who, that doesn't mean it stays destroyed because maybe there's still because it wasn't Gallifrey previously in another dimension in a painting.

[00:30:00] So you can always have something crazy like that going on.

[00:30:04] Yeah, it was like time locked twice, I think.

[00:30:07] Right.

[00:30:08] Which is wacky.

[00:30:09] But I mean,

[00:30:11] Gallifrey being the planet that time lords are from like.

[00:30:14] Yeah, yeah.

[00:30:15] I I'm a little I'm a little like how many times can you bring it back before it becomes silly?

[00:30:20] You know?

[00:30:21] Yeah.

[00:30:22] Yeah, it was silly to just destroy it because it would be interesting to explore it.

[00:30:27] I think they just didn't let it breathe enough.

[00:30:29] Like Chibnall did not let Gallifrey breathe enough.

[00:30:32] Right.

[00:30:33] You just had Moffat bring it back.

[00:30:36] Right.

[00:30:36] And then he's like, OK, it's gone now.

[00:30:39] Yes, I agree because then the new people who don't even know why they should feel attached to it, except for the fact that it's the Doctor's planet, of course.

[00:30:47] Yeah.

[00:30:48] At the same time, maybe they just you know, maybe he's on the phone with RTD and RTD is like, look, the first time it really helped to not have to explain all the Gallifrey and alien stuff.

[00:30:58] Yeah.

[00:30:59] So if you could just take care of Gallifrey for me so that I can onboard new people when we reset with Disney, that would be great.

[00:31:07] I mean, but it's not like that difficult to explain the the doctor can just say I'm from a planet called Gallifrey and then, you know, dribble out.

[00:31:16] Yeah.

[00:31:17] And then dribble out explanations of it as the episodes go on.

[00:31:22] That's true.

[00:31:23] That's true.

[00:31:24] One thing one other thing I want to talk about is the fear of abandonment and how that really drives this episode.

[00:31:31] Yes.

[00:31:32] And it's like she had to embrace that fear in order to get through it and, you know, achieve her purpose to warn the doctor basically not to step on the ferry cycle.

[00:31:43] Everyone's abandoned me my whole life, but I haven't been alone in 65 years.

[00:31:48] Because she always had herself.

[00:31:50] Right.

[00:31:50] Right.

[00:31:51] It's it's almost like that classic advice, like love yourself before you can love somebody else.

[00:31:55] But it is true in a sense.

[00:31:58] Like you do need to learn to sit with yourself to have a healthy outlook, I think.

[00:32:02] Yeah, I agree.

[00:32:06] And I do like how as time goes on, she stops fearing the mysterious Simperdistance woman and she starts just like looking at her lovingly like, oh, my friend's still here.

[00:32:17] Right?

[00:32:17] Well, I can imagine.

[00:32:18] Yeah, that point you have for how many decades you have this entity always there with you.

[00:32:24] It's it's a constant.

[00:32:26] It's a comfort.

[00:32:27] Right?

[00:32:27] Until, of course, it gets onto your bed.

[00:32:30] Right.

[00:32:33] So to me, that that meant like it was becoming part of her.

[00:32:37] Right?

[00:32:37] Like, right.

[00:32:38] What you read it as?

[00:32:39] Well, so that is the question is, was it always Ruby?

[00:32:43] Or did that change somehow with this merging?

[00:32:48] Like, was it and could it be like a Ruby's?

[00:32:53] Could it be that Ruby's people are whatever this entity was, and maybe from another dimension?

[00:33:01] From you know where the Pantheon comes from or whatever, whatever is leaking in from the outside now.

[00:33:08] It's a good question.

[00:33:09] I also think Ruby clearly has a human anatomy because otherwise somebody's going to catch that by the time they would have caught it.

[00:33:18] Yeah, elderly.

[00:33:19] Yeah.

[00:33:20] Yeah, if she had two hearts like I'm just watching the first time they introduced the two hearts business with the third doctor like he's in the hospital unconscious after his regeneration.

[00:33:31] They're like what is going on with this body?

[00:33:33] Mm hmm.

[00:33:34] And yeah, I just think they would have they would have noticed that or different blood types and things like that.

[00:33:40] Right?

[00:33:40] But I guess we got confirmation basically last episode that she's human.

[00:33:46] Yeah, yeah.

[00:33:47] And the aging.

[00:33:48] I mean, I guess we didn't see her die and possibly regenerate.

[00:33:52] But also, there is this.

[00:33:55] There is this theory that I agree with that a time Lord needs to know that they have a regeneration coming and activate it.

[00:34:05] Okay, do it like you don't automatically do it.

[00:34:07] You have to kind of trigger it.

[00:34:09] Okay, because you think of 1111 probably had regenerations left because of the timeless child business and 11 not knowing that he had more generations left.

[00:34:21] Let him age and almost die.

[00:34:24] Yeah.

[00:34:25] So I have a question.

[00:34:26] They haven't explained the regeneration thing to new people yet, right?

[00:34:31] I well yeah if you haven't watched the 60th then yeah you've only and even if you did you only had a weird regeneration right that's not the usual way it goes.

[00:34:41] Would you like to explain it?

[00:34:43] Well sure it's just basically the doctor.

[00:34:47] This is obviously behind the scenes just a way to keep the show going when they have to recast the doctor which they do every few seasons now.

[00:34:55] But the idea is that time Lords they instead of actually dying, they just regenerate into a new person so they hold the memories of the old of the old forms that they had in the most case with some exceptions we won't get into now.

[00:35:10] But they become a new person with a new personality and new physical appearance.

[00:35:16] Yeah and this really was band-aided on when william hartnell the first doctor had health issues and they still wanted the show to keep going on so they were like okay the doctor now looks like patrick trotten.

[00:35:31] And apparently john likes him a lot more now.

[00:35:35] Oh i love patrick trotten i think he's like maybe one of my top three doctors now.

[00:35:41] So him so him tenants and smith.

[00:35:45] I think so i think so and i think smith might be edging out.

[00:35:49] Oh tenant the more i think about it the more i'm like i actually really like yes portrayal.

[00:35:55] I think um i think that shooty has the gut has the um he could become my favorite let's see where this goes.

[00:36:05] Yeah he i haven't seen enough of him to make a judgment yeah like i like him but i just don't know where he's gonna go.

[00:36:11] But otherwise it's smith for me yeah.

[00:36:14] Yeah.

[00:36:15] With tenant closely thereafter.

[00:36:17] They're both so good and they're both different flavors right you have a time lord supreme and you have mr goofy.

[00:36:26] I like mr goofy yeah yeah yeah he's i think that smith and i think that shooty is starting to do this especially last episode in boom smith is really great at capturing like the duality of the deep sadness plus you know laughing through life.

[00:36:43] Right right and i think yeah shooting out was doing that also i also loved that we got so older watchers will know of a character called river song who's most famous quote is spoilers so this episode when he said oops spoilers that felt like him remembering her.

[00:37:00] Yeah yeah river scrape.

[00:37:04] I wouldn't mind having her back again cuz you know.

[00:37:07] Yeah tell me why me yeah yep.

[00:37:10] Bring it back doesn't matter that's that because if you're if you're new to doctor who.

[00:37:15] We can make anything happen like anything happened because the rules can always change the sonic screwdriver does anything you need it to do in that moment so does the hardest.

[00:37:25] So do the timelines sometimes you can go to a parallel universe and it'll break everything sometimes you can go there and it's fine whatever you want.

[00:37:33] Whatever you want that the writer wants to do in that moment as long as that's not as long as it's internally consistent in that episode.

[00:37:39] Right it's about taking these ridiculous situations to explore like fundamental human truths.

[00:37:45] Right and that's what i love about it you know great time so you're ready for feedback.

[00:37:51] Yeah let's do it we got a couple of a rodent and essay would you like to start reading it.

[00:37:57] Sure um.

[00:38:00] Oh and and before you do i should mention you can also send feedback like faded yes by writing into tardis at the lore hounds dot com going to the lore hounds dot com and clicking on the contact page or tagging us on discord and telling us hey i want this in the feedback.

[00:38:15] Yes please do.

[00:38:18] Okay so favorite my name is face she her i've listened to the lower hounds podcast since the first podcast on the rings of power so yeah another original and i'm really excited.

[00:38:30] Who's that and i'm really excited that alicia's joined as a regular lore hounds podcast welcome thank you fey yeah.

[00:38:36] This is my first time writing and i'm not usually a big fan of our td i think the space babies episode is about the worst doctor who episode of ever seen it's not my favorite either.

[00:38:47] Some surprises say that my email is actually in defense of an rtd episode and doctor who the episode but not really rtds writing style okay.

[00:38:57] I've seen and heard quite a bit of feedback about this episode online saying it's confusing makes no sense in the ending isn't satisfying because it leaves so many on unanswered questions i don't disagree but i think that this time.

[00:39:09] It actually just works within the genre that the episode seems to be using.

[00:39:14] It's pretty much agreed upon that each episode this season is taking on a distinct genre of storytelling if so.

[00:39:21] This one is a supernatural folk fairy tale this is one of my favorite genres so i was already primed to like this episode but it seems that a lot of doctor who fans aren't quite sure what to make of it.

[00:39:32] In this genre there's usually quote unquote fay magic or supernatural occurrences which are by their nature unexplained no one asks how the fairy steel children and put a changeling in its place,

[00:39:45] how fairies can disguise themselves as animals or other people are put curses on people such as speaking only riddles or never being able to find their livestock etc.

[00:39:54] There isn't a question of how in the stories because it's just very magic and the story carries on.

[00:39:59] So yeah just pausing here i am also hugely into folklore particularly northern european folklore and which obviously is where all this fae fairy stuff comes from and yes i completely agree and this is why this one of the reasons why this episode worked for me what do you think john.

[00:40:21] I agree with that and i understand some of the backlash to having magic and doctor who at the same time.

[00:40:29] Magic is absolutely always been a part of doctor who whether you call it that or not because.

[00:40:35] They like we just said like there's no rules to this universe is like very loose rules of don't have bad paradoxes but then when they need a paradox so they do it anyway.

[00:40:45] So i don't know i think it's totally fine and i think it's exciting to see them go into a new area because again this would be season forty if you never started remembering and a lot of ideas have already been explored and just to go back to the same villains over and over again is bored.

[00:41:02] Right i agree this is why i'm not as in love with the daleks and cybermen.

[00:41:07] I like yeah yeah yeah i get it.

[00:41:09] The fake continues so that's not to say that using the genre is just an excuse to write everything off as well it's magic in folk stories surrounding supernatural spirits and fairies there are usually there often rules set up ahead of time that are important for besting the fairy spirit such as winning a bet.

[00:41:26] Dressing in a manner to trick a fairy outsmarting the fairy in some way to break a contract etc but by telling the story from ruby's perspective rtd has kind of gotten away with using the idea of fairy magic for his folk tale without setting any parameters and since it's just a single episode of television it pretty much works in my opinion see i think.

[00:41:46] I'm interjecting as a leash again i think that.

[00:41:49] Just because parameters aren't explicitly stated or maybe not yet explicitly stated doesn't mean that they're not there because we did get for instance is seventy three yards per meter right right.

[00:42:00] I also gotta say i really love that we are going to like dark fairy stories because that's that's sort of what they were originally right and.

[00:42:09] You know we have the change on last year that was really cool with a dark fairy story you have this and i gotta say the tinker bell pr firm is not doing very well for fairies these days.

[00:42:21] I'll clap i believe in fairies now.

[00:42:25] Sorry are we gonna have who played her who played her in hook.

[00:42:31] Oh was it julia roberts it was julia roberts we're gonna have julia roberts as as tinker bell again i always think that i believe in fairies peter.

[00:42:40] Sure bizarre casting it would be like sydney sweeney now.

[00:42:46] Yes yes oh my god it's really can i just take it aside i love it's a great movie but that was the weirdest casting for tinker bell i could possibly imagine.

[00:42:56] It was an outside the box casting i didn't mind at the time but it yeah if you think about it like that's a.

[00:43:02] That's not who i would expect right right exactly.

[00:43:06] So fake continues there's plenty of lore about fairy circle specifically although it's more common for that reference to mean a naturally occurring circle on the ground of yeah made of mushrooms or grass this is what i know it to be and the consequences for stepping in them.

[00:43:21] The consequences are curses range from being transported to the ferry rome dying at a young age becoming invisible yes i did wonder if he was in the ferry rome anyway becoming invisible.

[00:43:32] Dancing to the point of death by exhaustion which was a real thing actually that happened in history or finding it impossible to leave or be found in this episode it seems like the curse is tied to ruby's own fear slash history of abandonment yeah as you said john.

[00:43:47] As a doctor is the first of many to abandon her the question of where did the doc where did the doctor go isn't really important because the curse is just that people abandon ruby and where they go is inconsequential but here's my question as alicia.

[00:44:03] If why is she cursed when he's the one who stepped in the circle.

[00:44:08] Because she opened the uh she deliberately i would say she deliberately opened up the uh the notes.

[00:44:17] True that is when he disappeared yeah okay good point good point.

[00:44:24] So if a continues the biggest clue about this episode is what kate directly tells ruby and us as the audience when faced with something inexplicable our brain makes up rules to try to explain it,

[00:44:34] i think this is where the political story comes in ruby assumes that stopping guillem is.

[00:44:40] Guillem is what she is supposed to do to resolve her situation but she's really just making up the rules to the unexplained as it ends up not having an effect at all except perhaps changing that time loop to avoid nuclear war.

[00:44:56] Also i have to mention that when listing her soldiers defense methods kate specifically lists necklaces of silver and salt in case of witchcraft which seems not only apt for this episode but also for the idea that the 14th doctor did indeed make some significant changes to reality when he sprinkled that salt on the ground at the edge of the universe.

[00:45:15] Yeah.

[00:45:16] Yep yep it's you get the sense that 14 when he did that he had a bit of a haggard moment i should not have said that i should have said that.

[00:45:24] Yeah.

[00:45:26] I've seen a lot of people complain that the ending doesn't make sense or at best is confusing and i think that's kind of the point this time it doesn't need to be explained with with logic because it's not a case of typical doctor who time travel it's a case of magic that makes the time loop possible it seems that there's two options at the end but both amount to the same thing one,

[00:45:49] the old woman actually is ruby see the haunting of hill house from twenty eighteen for a really similar example of this idea that is really well done that's a good show,

[00:45:59] yeah or it's just that old ruby has some kind of influence over the woman and her dying moments it isn't really clear and again doesn't really need to be made clear,

[00:46:08] but it seems that in her final moments of life which in this genre is typically seen as a moment of transition and therefore a time when interacting with the fairy world is easier or more likely,

[00:46:18] ruby is able to impede the curse by inserting her own message of don't step and therefore break the fairy magic.

[00:46:26] Yeah i agree yeah i like that a lot i like that do you think that it was.

[00:46:34] That she.

[00:46:37] You know doing a good thing sort of earned her the ability to intercede.

[00:46:42] And what was the good thing was big but this is decades after she chases him away so right right but then but then faber is a good point of like this is a yeah that's what i thought it sort of unlocks.

[00:46:55] Yeah yeah i mean i like your interpretation where you know the woman whether it's ruby or whatever there that it wasn't meant to be used to specifically chase him away,

[00:47:09] but ruby just kind of i like the idea of her having the agency and cleverness to think like well i can use this curse right in this way.

[00:47:18] I also like how she gets older by putting on glasses that's like that's like a different way to show she's always yeah.

[00:47:27] But it worked for me i was like that's a bad way but i understand now time is past and she's older.

[00:47:33] Yeah.

[00:47:34] So fake includes this kind of episode which ends with almost no ending explanation is an unprecedented see midnight in doctor who,

[00:47:43] the difference here is that it's not meant to be explained as a mysterious alien life form but as a stories of the supernatural and sometimes very creepy spirits of the realm come to life in this episode so i am frequently frustrated with our tds propensity to skip explanations or not even attempt to address,

[00:48:00] oblivious plot holes she says am i yes but this time our tds style has served as serendipitously aligned with this episodes genre to create a creepy and interesting supernatural fairy folktale story,

[00:48:16] and it works because he specifically didn't set up any rules about how this magic works allowing himself the freedom to do whatever he liked.

[00:48:24] If you made it to the end of this long email thank you so much for reading i really enjoy all the lower hounds podcast look forward to your discussions and insight each week thank you for that was a lot of thank you for you know laying out all of that folklore background that's really helpful framework.

[00:48:41] Do it should evaluate this episode.

[00:48:44] Yeah thanks for writing and it's nice to hear from you thanks for being a listener since rings of power it's a it's always great to hear that people are following us through our journey through time and space.

[00:48:54] Also you brought up midnight i just wanna respond to that i've heard a lot of talk about this being sort of close to midnight i actually think this is more of a turn left this is donna,

[00:49:04] right you recall if you've not watched this is an episode where donna previous companion of the doctor your listener i'm i know it at least watch it i'm educating the listener who is yeah i know i know,

[00:49:16] but this is an episode where donna previous companion of the doctor gets.

[00:49:21] Like attacked by a time beetle i forgot what they called it exactly and sent back into our timeline so that she never meets the doctor and then the doctor like fails because she wasn't there to help him and it's a whole.

[00:49:33] Chain of events until she can kind of save herself and then she can go back and stop this from happening.

[00:49:38] Yeah i mean i think people say i think people say midnight because it's got that creepy vibe but actually for me it was most like blink which is also an episode that the doctors barely in where the weeping angels which are some of my favorite doctor who.

[00:49:55] Villains or whatever you wanna call them antagonist that's the episode their introduced and it's with carrie mulligan of all people young carrie mulligan i know i know it's a great career after that.

[00:50:06] Yeah but that's also that's a classic stand alone episode and that's what this remind me of because the creep with sorry i was gonna call them the creeping angels are the weeping angels it's a similar vibe you know they just it's as soon as you're not looking at them they get closer.

[00:50:22] Yeah i the weeping angels i love the weeping angels but i'm okay to not see them for a season or two right now i think i'll really overuse them.

[00:50:32] Yeah and yeah it kind of took some of the creepy magic out of them for me what was done with them in the whole flux storyline but that's my issue with the flux storyline.

[00:50:41] Yep.

[00:50:42] Alright marilyn are peculiar also wrote in and said i've got a million questions about episode five but first and foremost what in the world did old ruby say to all those people to make them run away in terror including mad jack himself.

[00:50:55] Yeah yeah that's an excellent question.

[00:50:58] We just don't know i hope we find out by the end of this yeah i think that would be that would be a nice bit.

[00:51:04] And also marilyn took issue with the way they represented the welsh she says they're far more kind and welcoming to strangers than was depicted in the show and then there was some debate between a few members of the discord saying like well she did kind of be like do you know what a phone is.

[00:51:19] Yeah yeah i mean i think also davis is he's actually i think if i remember correctly he's from swansea which is where my family was from to it's the second largest city in wales.

[00:51:35] Basically your cousin then.

[00:51:37] Basically that's how it works yeah.

[00:51:39] You should write to him get him to bring on the show.

[00:51:41] Exactly i would like to be a doctor who villain and then cut to me in ten hours of makeup to become a weaving angel.

[00:51:49] But no but i'm a yeah it's it's a it's a city on the southern coast and maybe that's more like city behavior actually than small town behavior.

[00:52:01] Fair enough fair enough all right well thanks everyone for writing in of course you can get in on that.

[00:52:09] Tardis at the lorehounds dot com for now we're ready to wrap this thing up so we've got a patreon and a supercast you can get early and ad free access to all our podcasts there.

[00:52:19] You can get show guides for some of the shows that were doing like house of the dragon you can get you can get a whole bunch of stuff it's it's a great time we do second breakfast elisa you just had your first second breakfast how was it.

[00:52:30] Yeah it was a lot of fun and i'm looking forward to we're gonna talk about our movie this week too.

[00:52:35] I know eleven z's a new offering.

[00:52:38] Eleven z's with eternal sunshine of the spotless mind it was really good to rewatch that movie.

[00:52:43] It's a great movie absolutely absolutely great really early two thousands and vibe hope you enjoy it.

[00:52:50] You can also check out our affiliates radioactive ramblings is on and off week but they'll be back with more fallout lore next week.

[00:53:01] Rings and rituals has a new episode coming on episode seven of the rings of power where they're gonna look at it through the lens of ritual.

[00:53:09] They're doing a full rewatch of season one so that you can be prepped for season two.

[00:53:15] Will shift just a leisure tell me about what just in the star wars can timeline.

[00:53:20] I guess i will shift just two things one for the main timeline we're gonna be recording later this week because it's a busy week for the last two episodes of season two of being twenty three.

[00:53:32] So you still have time to get in feedback if you have any about those last two episodes and or anything else of course.

[00:53:40] And for the book club i'm releasing the long overdue shift book breakdown so it was a monster editing job but it's coming out this week.

[00:53:50] And then for the star wars canon timeline there's final to pre acolyte episodes is gonna there's an episode that where we break down season one of young jedi adventures where i talk to bob again about the lower and everything in the story and.

[00:54:07] Healthy my professional animator friend also as well.

[00:54:12] And then the last episode is a final preview of the acolytes with you know the characters and who might show up and things like that.

[00:54:22] Nice menu and i will be on the acolyte and then we're doing our weekly breakdowns next week of the week it's a week after right a june they say june fourth comes out but i'm guessing that's only in the us so i'm in june fourth fifth.

[00:54:34] All right sounds good looking forward to that season or sorry by us i mean the entire america's because it's north america.

[00:54:42] I want to also say same time zone okay all right right right i get you.

[00:54:48] All right properly howard movie review is our last affiliate i want to talk about they are finishing up their season on philanies and fugazi with rocky.

[00:54:56] That should be out by the time that you listen to this episode so go check them out check out all our affiliates or head to our discord server if you want to chat with us find everything in the link tree in the show notes below.

[00:55:10] We've got to do our thank you so lisa.

[00:55:13] Okay so thank you first to our discord server boosters who i especially you know bob and i have been having to record through discord because of a technical issues so.

[00:55:23] The boosting really helps us to be able to make better recording so thank you so much to narles.

[00:55:28] Aaron k tiller the thriller dark of ninjas do you have seventy one captain gingy fifty six and then our lore masters who make all this possible.

[00:55:40] Some martian michael g michelle e david w brian p nick w sc peter oh h betina w adam s nancy m do seventy one brian eighty sixty three.

[00:55:52] Frederick h sarah l gareth c eric f matthew m sarah m dj miwa andre be quang you did i did i bob nathan t alex v.

[00:56:03] Aaron t sub zero erin k dali v mothership sixty one narles.

[00:56:10] I know that was a complete mispronunciation narles and always last adrian.

[00:56:20] Well well do you know what i forgot to talk about alicia what what we're doing on this feed.

[00:56:25] Oh yeah i'm the lorehounds because now this is this is also on the doctor who sonic screw cast feed.

[00:56:32] Right which with new episode art a new podcast art and everything.

[00:56:36] Very exciting and and erin k if you know him from the discord and the host of radioactive ramblings did the art and it's looking great.

[00:56:44] And you can see the preview of my smug derpy cat avatar in the i know i know we gotta get that finish up.

[00:56:53] So you're doing kingdom of the planet of the apes.

[00:56:57] Yes so yes kingdom of the planet of the apes is also coming out this in the next couple days yeah.

[00:57:03] Cool so we it's actually it's not just kingdom of the planet of the apes actually the first half is david and i talking about the original series and then i'm joined by another guest to talk about the new films.

[00:57:13] That's very cool.

[00:57:14] I'm liking it.

[00:57:16] We are also of course doing doctor who weekly we're doing the acolyte coming up weekly we're doing house of the dragon right now we're finishing up our rewatch doing the last two episodes this week and then we will be doing a podcast with maester anthony from electric boogaloo and properly howard.

[00:57:32] Do you talk about our hopes and dreams for season two.

[00:57:36] What else we got lorehounds play i literally posted it to patreon before we started recording on final fantasy seven or rebirth.

[00:57:44] And we've got eleven days coming up which we already talked about.

[00:57:48] So thanks everyone yeah thank you we're having a great time we'll see you next week.

[00:57:54] Do the lorehounds podcast is produced and published by the lorehounds you can send questions and feedback and voicemails at the lorehounds dot com slash contact get early and add free access to all or house podcast at patreon dot com slash the lorehounds any opinions stated are ours personally and do not reflect the opinion of or belong to any employers or other entities.

[00:58:13] Thanks for listening.