Second Breakfast - Top 10 TV for 2023

[00:00:00] Oh my god. Hey David, what's for breakfast? Leave it in. Leave it in. Leave it in. I didn't realize it was me. Sorry. It was you. It's me. It's breakfast on the go, John. Yeah,

[00:00:26] I didn't need breakfast on the go today. I was up at 2.30 in the morning with my son. Oh lordy. Oh. He decided he was ready to be up for the day at 2.30 AM. He was like, I need some tell... I got to catch up on my top 10 dad.

[00:00:40] Yeah. I got to get my top 10 list. He had a hard day, but he's asleep now. We actually had to start recording late because he woke up again. So hopefully he stays slumbering through this recording and we have a night before Christmas here.

[00:00:54] That would be nice. A nice night before Christmas. Breakfast on the go, do you have a go-to standby for your fast out the door breakfasts? If I'm literally running late, we often stock these fig bars that are natural fig bars and not fig beans.

[00:01:18] Quote unquote fig bar. Natural. Yeah. But they're slightly better than a fig newton. And they're like a, the child will not eat anything else desperation snack. And sometimes I'll just grab one of those if I'm really running

[00:01:32] late. But that's basically... Otherwise I just won't eat breakfast if I'm running late. Right. And you just keep going. Do you at least get a cup of coffee or anything like that? I cannot function without coffee. Okay. You are the spice.

[00:01:47] So I just pour a cup of cold brew and then I head on my way. Cold brew. That'll wake you up. That'll turn your crank. I'm a cold coffee boy. That'll turn your crank. What about you? What's your go-to on the go breakfast?

[00:02:03] I think if I could get a coffee and a baked product of some kind, some toast, a muffin, half a bagel, something that's a little crispy with some butter on it. Or we've been... My spouse

[00:02:21] made a bunch of muffins recently and I like to toast those up, throw a little butter on them and head out. So yeah, something baked full of carbs, carbs and caffeine. If I can tick those two boxes,

[00:02:35] then I can get myself moving and going forward. Back in the day when I lived in the city, I'd hit the bodega next to the subway stop and get myself a sausage, egg and cheese.

[00:02:49] But out here in the wilds of Vermont, there's not a bodega to be had. Not too good in upstate New York here either. It's just... Well, there's some stuff. It's not so far from New York City where it's bad, but it's not as good.

[00:03:05] You're in the outer perimeter. That is for sure. It's so different to walk out of the subway and grab something than it is to go drive somewhere and go back home or go to work. So car dependent here. That's one of the reasons where we,

[00:03:20] at least where we live, we made a choice to be in walking distance of our school and of downtown. So we can shop and get to school and do... And the hardware store and all these kinds of things all on foot if we want to. That's cool.

[00:03:34] I feel very lucky, unfortunately. Because Vermont is very rural. It's very car dependent. Yeah. Pretty much the same here, although I'm closer to a minor city. But yeah, speaking of cars, my car, of course, broke down this weekend. Oh joy. Perfect for the holidays.

[00:03:53] Absolutely. Especially we're going away for the holidays. So we were like, okay, what are we going to do? We're going to have to rent a car. And anyway, so they wanted 3300 to fix it at the first place I went to.

[00:04:04] And it seemed like it was running fine. It's just the check engine light was on. Oh God. And I was like, that doesn't sound right. And that was a chain place because they were the

[00:04:14] only place open on Saturday. And then I went to a local place that was reputable today. They fit me in because they had a cancellation or something. And this place had great reviews. They're doing it for 1600 and it's not nearly as bad.

[00:04:28] What's the, did you get a readout on the check engine light? Yeah. It's like they were trying to sell me a whole new turbocharger at the first place. Whereas it's just like a piece that goes on the turbocharger. Okay.

[00:04:40] That was faulty and they had to do something to it. But yeah, they were way more honest at the second place. So if you're going to hold onto that car, I would suggest getting one of those,

[00:04:50] I don't know, they're like 20 or $30, the little skin or there's a little. Yeah, I'm gonna, I always, you know, it's something that you only think about buying when something goes wrong and you need it now. Exactly. That's the problem.

[00:05:02] That's your Christmas present. I'm buying you one of those little scanners. Well, thanks. That's all right. I'll put it on Santa's list right here. Car scanner. But anyway, that's your lesson here for the kids at home is, oh, well, first of all, from you get

[00:05:19] the car scanner, but for me get a second opinion on your car. For sure. Especially if it's running. And yeah, if your gut tells you something's wrong here, it probably is. Right? Right. Yeah. That's shady. 3,300 bucks. They're like, oh, we're going to fill the stockings. We got the.

[00:05:36] Yeah. I was like, yeah, no thanks. I'll take it back. Right. Yep. At least you weren't towed in because that's when they got you. Yeah. Yeah. Cannot get away. Indeed. I just drove it to the other place. So enough with car troubles and sleep deprivation.

[00:05:52] Let's talk about some stuff. Breakfastes. Yeah. So we have so much content, not only for the end of December, which I think there's going to be like almost a podcast every day or every other day. Yeah. It's a lot.

[00:06:06] We backed up a little bit. Our editing coffers got a little full and so now we just fill it out. It's my fault. Let's just, it's my fault. I've been busy. Mm. Yeah, you were because your maternity, your paternity leave thing.

[00:06:18] My maternity leave. Yeah. I'm really busy if I had maternity leave. That's right. My paternity leave did end and work's been busy and home's been busy because now, see, here's the thing is I, I had a baby and a toddler. Yes. And now I have two toddlers.

[00:06:35] You're outnumbered. It's, it's so much harder. It's functionally three to one. Right. Yeah. It's not one V one. It's actually, they're three and you're two. Right. Yeah. You're outmanned. They are quite the team, I would say.

[00:06:54] But my daughter, I will say my daughter is getting easier every day. She's really maturing. She's asking a lot more questions. She's playing pretend. She's being kind. If I give her a snack, she'll break off a piece and give it to her brother. Oh, that's sweet. Oh.

[00:07:10] So she's getting a lot better. She's becoming a little girl instead of a baby, which is nice. Right. My son, on the other hand, is picking up all of the demonic toddler traits- He's a monster.

[00:07:23] That my daughter is leaving behind. And so I will not escape this for another two years is really the end story. I'm so glad we only have one. Well, you know- Look, I love both my kids, but I can't wait for the toddler stage to be over.

[00:07:39] Yeah, absolutely. When you're a working parent, when you're a- I know, well, regardless of whatever stage you're parenting and working and however you balance your family life, it is just, yeah, you're in the pinch point right now. And if you have a busy, demanding job,

[00:07:57] and God, if both parents have to be working, it's even worse. Yeah. It's just tough. So modern life. How's your family doing? We're good. We're good. We're in the last week of school before the kids go on their break. And

[00:08:16] it's a short break this year. It's only the five days of that one week. And then they go back in on the second. So I'm self-employed, so I gave myself vacation starting today. That doesn't mean I'm not

[00:08:29] doing nothing, but I'm not taking regular appointments and doing regular work. So I'm looking forward to catching up on some things and just letting go a little bit and relaxing a little bit, letting my mind wander and not feel rushed every day.

[00:08:46] But on the content front and on this podcast front, we had so much content that we're actually going to break Second Breakfast up into two podcasts. There's going to be a front side of

[00:09:00] this, which is our sort of normal Second Breakfast stuff. And then the back half of this podcast of this recording was going to be our top 10, which we actually recorded yesterday is podcast recordings go. So. Wibbly wobbly timey wimey.

[00:09:16] Exactly. So that'll be one podcast. And then we're going to have a second whole podcast that's going to have all the interviews with all of our co-hosts are Astari, as we like to call them.

[00:09:26] And that's Brandon, Jean, Alicia, Marilyn and Anthony. And we review their top three shows and their bonus questions for the year in wrap up. And then we have a special guest joining us this

[00:09:43] evening, a little bit later this evening, Anna Claus. She's a writer and she does these really hilarious takedowns of holiday rom-coms on her sub stack. And I happen to know her personally.

[00:09:55] My spouse is good friends with her. So we said, Hey, why don't you come on and help us take Falling for Christmas, the Lindsay Lohan tour de force. We're going to take it to its pieces and she's going to help us do that.

[00:10:09] Yeah. It's quite the movie. I'm glad we have some help for it. Yeah. It's otherwise we would just be kind of going, gosh, what a terrible movie, but she's got some insights into it. So that interview for the second Breakfast movie and all

[00:10:25] of those Astari interviews, that's all going to be a second podcast and we will release it just after this. But in this podcast, in this beginning part, we're going to cover some of the usual stuff,

[00:10:37] some warhounds news, some industry news, quick updates on what we're doing, playing that kind of stuff. And then we've got a whole bunch of Christmas cards, virtual Christmas cards from

[00:10:49] a lot of you folks. And we're going to read those out on air and that should be fun. A little bit of holiday cheer before we get into the top 10 stuff. Cool. I'm excited.

[00:11:02] Yeah. It's that time of the year. Do you have any vacation time coming? Oh, you're going on vacation. You're actually going to be gone. I have some vacation time saved up because luckily paternity doesn't affect that. Yes.

[00:11:13] But yeah, so I'm going away for a week with my family to a cabin in Otis, Massachusetts. Lovely. That'll be nice. We'll have a good time. You're staying put, right? Yeah. We're just hanging out. We're going to maybe take some day trips, catch up with some friends

[00:11:30] and yeah, just kind of be chill. We used to travel a lot for Christmas, especially when our daughter was younger. My family's all back on the West Coast. So we would fly back to Seattle and do this

[00:11:45] sort of Seattle, Portland, Port Angeles thing, friends, family, really hectic. And then we would, until we learned that you could fly on New Year's Eve for fricking cheap. Sometimes we would have to wait until five or six days after New Year's Day to actually get affordable flights again.

[00:12:07] Wow. So then we started coming back on New Year's Eve. Wow. And that was really nice. And we'd get home like 11 o'clock or so to our apartment in Brooklyn, just completely hashed out. And then the fireworks would start outside our window.

[00:12:22] Not the city fireworks, mind you, but just all the neighborhood people who spent thousands of dollars on some serious fireworks and they're exploding at sort of six and seven story building level

[00:12:33] right outside our windows. So yeah, so it was good. That was always good. I mean, it was hectic and exhausting and F the pandemic, but one of the changes that was good that has come out of it for

[00:12:46] us is that we've just slowed down our travel and taken things a little bit easier. Yeah. So we're just hanging local, hang out with some friends. We're starting a little tradition of going to a restaurant called Panda North, which does, it's kind of a Pan-Asian restaurant and it's

[00:13:04] probably the best restaurant for that kind of food in our area. And that place gets rocking on New Year's Eve. So we slip in there about five o'clock with some other friends of ours. Nice.

[00:13:17] Our daughters get sort of dressed up and have some fun and we get all kinds of crazy food and drinks and then come home and fall asleep by about 11 or 12, by like 11 or 8, we're out. Fair enough. I don't remember the last time I saw the ball drop.

[00:13:33] I'm an old man now. You're an old man. Yeah. I turned 30 last week. Hey, happy, yes. And what's your birthday present? What are we going to, I'm going to get you a car scanner by God almighty. Don't worry about it. I will tell you-

[00:13:45] Everybody write in and say happy birthday to Joan. I bought myself like two Pokemon packs for my birthday and I got a Lugia, which is, it's an excellent Pokemon card from Silver Tempest if anyone out there is listening.

[00:13:58] And it was great. I also got a couple of magic packs. I got one of the collector edition green God cards. So whatever you think that is, it probably is not it, but it's okay. Okay. It was very cool. It was very cool. Not one of those cards?

[00:14:16] Oh no, no, no. He just said it gives you mana and whatnot. It's very good. Anyway, good stuff. You playing some games? Honestly, no. I haven't actually been to the card shop since our last second breakfast,

[00:14:31] I don't think because I've just been so busy and haven't really been playing video games either. I've just been binging Doctor Who in any leisure time I can find really because

[00:14:44] I'm just into it and I'm trying to finish it. So most of my leisure time. Any gaming for you? Yeah. My old online, we were in person and then we went online during pandemic and we played all

[00:14:59] the way through the pandemic. So that group, one of the other main guys emailed everybody a few weeks ago and said, Hey, how's everybody doing? Anybody want to do a one shot over the holidays?

[00:15:09] So he is going to do Swords of the Serpentine, which is a D20 fantasy, a spinoff from some of the creators or some of the people that have worked on Dungeons and Dragons. It's a cool little system, but we're going to do a one shot actually tomorrow night

[00:15:26] in relative to when we're recording. So looking forward to that, that's going to be a lot of fun. My neighbor across the street texted me a while back and he said, Hey,

[00:15:36] do you know anything about this Call of Cthulhu game? I'm like, well, why yes, indeed I do. And he's like, Oh yeah, I'm thinking about running one. I might grab a couple of people.

[00:15:49] He'll get around to it eventually in his own time, but that would be really interesting if we get a Call of Cthulhu game going on. Especially an in-person one. Yeah, exactly. Those are so rare these days.

[00:16:01] But I have to say in our town, the talk of D&D is, I'm hearing chatter all over the place. A lot of kids are getting into it. We got a new comic book store that opened up on our main street. Oh good. It's always good to see.

[00:16:14] There was a guy who was running some one shot style type of things at the town recreation center. I was talking to the principal at our school and they had somebody who was doing some Pokemon

[00:16:31] afterschool club things. And I'm like, well, I can't organize it, but if there was something organized, maybe I would run a couple of simple games for the kids. Wizards of the Coast just recently released a whole bunch of material that is specifically targeted for educators and afterschool clubs.

[00:16:49] Oh, interesting. So simplified rules and pregenerated characters and all kinds of curriculum support materials. So if you want to talk about it in your classroom, there's all this stuff. And I'm like, that's really smart. That's really cool.

[00:17:06] Did you hear about all the layoffs over there? Wizards in Hasbro? Brutal. Hasbro. Yeah, well, it was Hasbro. I believe it was 20% across the board. So every division. Yeah. So Wizards didn't escape? No, no, they did not escape. And it was just before Christmas. Thanks guys.

[00:17:20] That's awful. I mean, honestly, the problem is Wizards is like the only thing making money over there. Everything else is faltering. Magic is actually, I don't know how D&D is doing

[00:17:31] specifically, but magic is like making more money than it ever has largely because they did so many of the marketing things like Lord of the Rings. Right, the crossover. So the Fallout show's coming out next year. They're doing a Fallout set for magic. And they

[00:17:45] did a Doctor Who set for the anniversary. They're really on their brand management right now. That's amazing. Yeah. They even just put out like a super deluxe, you can pay a bunch of money, these secret lair cards that are special edition for specifically the 14th Doctor, David Tennant

[00:18:02] and all the characters that you meet in the specials. So they know what they're doing. That's incredible because you've got to have restricted access of some kind to the plot and the characters and the actors. And then you've got to get all that art produced. Yep.

[00:18:18] And you got to go through all the revisions and the layouts. I mean, obviously they have a machine in place to be able to do that effectively to turn it around so fast, but it's still a lot of

[00:18:29] work with the artists and all the turnarounds with those kinds of things, setting up the printing for that. That's incredible. That's absolutely incredible. Yeah. So those two guys, those two divisions are doing great, but now I guess the rest and it's, I don't know what is it?

[00:18:46] It's some sort of tax thing too. If you can lighten the books at certain times and it's, it really, you want to talk about bad economy vibes. Well, that's one of the bad vibes is that

[00:18:56] if you work for a big company at any stage, you could be let go like that for investor shareholder reasons and not because of anything having to do with the actual business of making the widgets

[00:19:08] that you're making at your company. Anyway, maybe I shouldn't get all Scrooge McDuck on the podcast for the humbug. I tell you what, anyway. So yeah, I'm, I, and I'm looking forward to maybe trying

[00:19:22] to sneak some a Baldur's Gate three. And once I get, I'm trying to unload some project work and some things that have been building up even though I'm technically on vacation. Yeah. Once I light my

[00:19:33] load a little bit, I'm going to see if I have a little time for some Baldur's Gate. Cool. Yeah. I picked it up on Xbox so I could play it like in my mobile or rig more mobile rig. And I'm going

[00:19:44] to bring my Xbox on this vacation. So if we have family watching the kids, cause they just like to play with the kids and maybe I'll just sneak off and play a little Baldur's Gate. That would be

[00:19:54] nice. Hand off the children to the grandparents and the extended family and say, see ya. That's what I'm saying. Do it. I see him enough during the year. They'll be fine. They, yeah, they,

[00:20:06] they will love it. I don't know. Every time we would get together with my in-laws, we would come home on the weekend. I would swear this is when our daughter was a little younger. I would swear

[00:20:17] that she had matured by like a year and a half or something just by being with her grandmother, right. And having a different parental interaction and it just is so stimulating for them. It's so

[00:20:26] good for them to be with family and stuff. So yeah, I'm sure it'll be a fun time. That's good. Um, yeah, cool. So a little industry news, I guess, before we talk about some lore houndy stuff. I don't know if you saw that next Netflix started releasing data.

[00:20:49] No, well actually no, I did hear about this. You told me about this last night, actually. I think. I don't know. I don't know where I learned things anymore. Yeah. I heard it somewhere. So it was a six month snapshot for like 18,000 different titles and it's got some

[00:21:03] funky metrics and there's, but it's the spreadsheets apparently have tons of data in them. And apparently they're going to do this every six months or so for the public. They're just going to roll over some books and let people see into stuff. And there was a really good

[00:21:19] podcast interview with Ted Sarandos on the town podcast, which is one of the ringer podcasts with Matt Bellany. And he, you know, he used to be an entertainment lawyer and stuff like that. So he

[00:21:29] knows a lot of this, this stuff around Los Angeles. So he had this really interesting interview with Ted Sarandos and they pressed him a little bit, like, why haven't you done this before? And

[00:21:38] why the change now? And, you know, he had some answers that were not complete fluff, but it's really interesting. They've decided that now is a good time to start releasing data and they're going to start doing it on, on the regular. They've been releasing data to the,

[00:21:53] the creators, but it's always like a isolated right now. Now that I'm in NDA, et cetera. Yep. So now this is like six months snapshots of, of all of this. And I'm not sure all the metrics that they're using and how they're measuring engagement and, you know, watch

[00:22:10] to completion and all this kind of stuff. But I think it's really interesting. The scary thing is though that the top three shows for that snapshot for that six months were the night agent,

[00:22:21] Ginny in Georgia and Wednesday. So I don't know two of the three of those. Exactly. Right. That's what I'm saying. The night age, I tried to watch the night agent and I thought it was really bad

[00:22:33] and I've never heard of Georgia and these are the shows that were having the most hours watched or something like that. Yeah. So, Ooh, interesting. Super interesting. Interesting. Good for Netflix. I mean, I wish they would stop raising prices, but

[00:22:50] I think we're going to settle out. And I think we're going to, I think we're going to see a little consolidation and I think we're, I think streaming wars, I think Netflix won the streaming

[00:22:58] wars. We talked about this yesterday on the, on the top 10 stuff. Yeah. We don't have to rehash it, but no rehashes if people aren't going to get this tomorrow. So you'll hear us tomorrow. Talk

[00:23:08] about the streaming wars a little bit in this podcast. In fact, actually. Oh yeah. So today we'll be wobbly. Tell me where we're segmenting up all these podcasts. So anyway, and other sad

[00:23:21] news. I don't know if you saw the news about Andre Brower who's an actor, Brooklyn nine, nine, which you might know him from. I did hear about this. I don't know anything about Brooklyn nine, nine except like, Oh, I think he'd really enjoy that show.

[00:23:36] Probably people always tell me that. And then I never watch it. Yeah. Yeah. There you go. Anyway, he was an amazing actor and it's really sad passing. And there was a show that he was on for much longer before that, which

[00:23:49] preceded the wire. But it was a spinoff of Pelicanos and Simon stuff. I was Pelicanos involved in it. I'm not sure, but it had to do with that whole homicide life on the streets

[00:24:00] thing, which the wire is based on. And it was called the homicide life on the streets. In fact, and it was an amazing, I think five or six seasons if that, and maybe even seven. It was

[00:24:10] incredible. He was a powerhouse of an actor and it was really, really sad news at the end of the year. Yeah. So there's probably not, you probably don't have much else news wise because you've been

[00:24:21] so busy being Mr. Dad. Well, there is the one piece reboot. That is the weirdest thing I've ever heard of in my life. Do you have a read on that? I posted the video and I didn't understand

[00:24:34] what it was. It sounds like they're just doing a full reboot of the anime while still continuing the current anime. Okay. So they just want to- A reboot of the anime. So it's not even

[00:24:45] going to be a live action. It's just going to be- So they're going to continue on the live action. I think it's been renewed. And then I guess with the people they bring in with the live action,

[00:24:54] they don't want you to have to watch a thousand episodes to catch up. So they want to bring you into the anime. So they're rebooting the anime with modern animation because it's a 20 year

[00:25:04] old show. The early episodes did not age well with animation. Got it. Okay. But I mean, they're really good stories. It's just that it's 20 years old and it was pretty low budget at the time. And

[00:25:15] so I think that this will probably have more resources. It seems like the one piece community is actually pretty favorable towards it. Okay. They're like, you know what? It's interesting. They're great stories. I can watch them be told as many times as you show them to me.

[00:25:30] So yeah, they're calling it the one piece instead of just one piece. And it's like the suicide squad. Right. That's interesting. Okay. Well, I mean, if they're just going to kind of retell the stories, that's not bad. I think that's okay. Yeah. That's fine.

[00:25:48] Freshen up the animation and sort of capitalize on that. I said to Mrs. Lorehound, I said, if they're rebooting this, will you watch it with me? And she said, no. Not happening. She does like anime. She just hates my anime. That's really...

[00:26:05] That's the issue. It's not her, it's me. That's the problem. Got it. Well, you've always got Moses to podcast about one piece. Yeah. We got to get back on our one piece train. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you got bumped by who? There's so many projects that we start.

[00:26:23] So many ideas. And I want to finish them. It's just that we just need 5,000 Patreon subscribers. I know. Right? So. Well, for now, I see that you sent me a Notion link. Yes. So it seems like you have something to show me.

[00:26:38] I do. I want to show you the show tracker. All right. I'm in. And I want to kind of do a little bit of a live demo so that I can entice people into utilizing this labor of love, this thing that I've been crafting.

[00:26:53] My... Are these my Silmarils? These are these things that I'm jealous and possessive of. No, I want to share them. I want the world to see their light. You're no Feanor. No, I am not. I have used a lot of different websites

[00:27:09] to track TV and movies. I've used a lot of different apps and none of them suffice to what I need. So for the last year, I've been rolling my own, trying to figure out how to use Notion in

[00:27:24] the best way, which is this crazy database, wiki page, make your own wiki page kind of thing. But it's not wiki. It's something far more interesting and versatile. And I finally hit

[00:27:38] upon a format and the right amount of data and to make it, I think, interesting and useful. And potentially, utilizable for our patrons going forward, especially around the idea of collecting

[00:27:56] data every year for our top tens. And if people want to rank their shows sort of real time, that kind of stuff. So that's still got to be in development. But for now, just the basics of

[00:28:07] a thing where you can go to and you can see what shows are on in what order, how they overlap, what season it is, what platform it's on, what night it airs, how many episodes it is, and some

[00:28:22] genre information, plot synopsis, maybe the trailers as they're published, all on a single page. So I think are you looking at the- It's looking great. Are you at the table view there? I was at the timeline, but I can- Ooh, the timeline's even better. I like the timeline.

[00:28:40] Yes, I love the timeline. Yeah, just so on that either the timeline or the table view, if you click on a title, I don't know, click on True Detective Night Country, I guess. Oh, I clicked on The Brother's Son, so I'm just the rebel.

[00:28:53] Okay, The Brother's Son, that works. No, I'm going to True Detective. Don't worry. All right. Don't worry, I'm here. So there we've got a nice banner image. You've got a little icon that shows you what the streaming platform is, the log line. And then I've got links

[00:29:07] for going to the YouTube trailer, links to a couple of other websites that track shows if you want to read in more information. And then down in the bottom, I can embed the trailer from YouTube.

[00:29:22] So it's actually there in the page. Nice. Wow, this is a lot of work you did. I know. Thank you. Yeah. And so yeah, with the timeline, it's great because you can then see how shows overlap each

[00:29:37] other. So you can say, oh, well, True Detective runs over when Masters of the Air is running, which overruns Mr. and Mrs. Smith, but then that finishes before Shogun, but Masters of the Air is still on while Shogun is on, da-da-da-da-da. And so we can-

[00:29:57] Hold on, they're remaking Mr. and Mrs. Smith? It looks great. Click on the thing. Click on the- Is it a movie or is it a series? Click on the thing. Okay. All right. Oh, eight episodes? Yeah. That's too much. And look who it is. It's Dan and Glover.

[00:30:12] Oh, wow. Donald Glover and Maya Erskine. Wow. Yeah. All right. See, you have me interested. My interest peaked. Yes. So this is going to be a Patreon benefit. I'm going to put up a post on it. I will add it to

[00:30:30] the thing with a link and people will be able to interact with it. I'll be just updating it as we go. I'm hopefully trying to recruit a couple of people from our Discord to help me backfill

[00:30:42] information. And then I think going forward, what I want to try to do, I'll probably start with Loremasters is creating some sort of access where those people who want to opt in can actually

[00:30:55] kind of keep a running track of their shows. So at the end of the year, if they're doing their top 10 list or we do a community survey, that day we can just take all that data and just plug it in,

[00:31:04] press a few buttons and wave a magic wand and we have our community survey done. Very cool. Yeah. Well, thanks, David. This looks great. You know, it's really driven out of my need to understand what's coming up so that I don't get blindsided by things.

[00:31:21] It's very easy to do these days. Yeah, hugely. Things just come up like Fargo. And yeah, exactly. And then it was born out of our need to like try to have a rational plan for what we're going to be podcasting.

[00:31:33] Yeah. Let's try to not redo the Wheel of Time. I almost said Fallout because I was reading Fallout Foundation, Ahsoka nonsense. Look, I love all those shows, but that was a lot of time. Yeah. A lot of time.

[00:31:48] And we'll have to, yeah, well, and that's why we have a nice podcasting family now. We can maybe spread the load out a little bit. So. I saw you were expressing interest in the Fallout series. I'm keeping an eye on it. Definitely. I think it's worth considering.

[00:32:07] I can't say I know anything about it, but it looks like a crazy, visually interesting sci-fi dystopia, madcap sort of thing. So what the hell? Yeah, it's very. So I played the first few hours of three of the games, and it seems to be that the

[00:32:27] connecting factor is just the world gets blown up. You were safe in a vault. You crawl out and the world's ruined. What do you do? Right. And so you could do a lot with that. It's a very basic premise.

[00:32:40] Right. Well, if you click on the title where it's listed, you will see that there's a trailer there. Very nice. Well, we don't have time for it right now, but I'll watch it later. Speaking of what we're going to be covering in the future,

[00:32:58] do you want to talk about sort of what's in the offing for 2024 for Lorehounds? Some things that we could say that we're definitely going to cover, assuming we have dates in the future. Which already looks like too much. Right.

[00:33:11] Now that I'm looking at it. Well, I guess that's, it's over a year. That's all right. True Detective. Yeah. Right. You've convinced me on that one. Yep. You've sold me. Severance. I think we've talked plenty about that with Steve and Anthony.

[00:33:27] House of the Dragon. We'll jump in for season two. Maybe we'll do like a preview pod for our lack of season one coverage. Rings of Power, of course, that's how we started. We'll keep it going. And or. Probably.

[00:33:41] We've discussed. It's probably not coming back next year, but we'll try. Yeah. We'll try. If it happens, we'll definitely cover it. The Boys. I think you and I both really love that universe. Yep.

[00:33:51] And it would be great to see. And Doctor Who, I think Alicia and I will cover. We haven't discussed if we're going to do full coverage or not. So I'll leave that open ended for now. But honestly,

[00:34:01] I feel like every time I ask Alicia to do something, she's like, yeah, sure. Let's do it. She's more game. Yeah, exactly. And then we don't know about the Alkalite. The Alkalite? Alkalite. Alkalite. Mm-hmm. Better learn to say it before the show.

[00:34:15] I know, right? Stranger Things may be back this year. They're only starting filming in January. Oh, they're definitely not back this year. Yeah. Okay. No, you're good. Nevermind. That's fine. I'm very keeping my eye on Shogun and Masters of the Air,

[00:34:29] but maybe those are one shots because I think Shogun and True Detective are overlapping. So that's would be a bit of a stretch. Okay. And there are three films for sure that are going to get talked about. Who and when and how we do it

[00:34:46] is yet to be seen, but Furiosa, which is a Mad Max prequel to the sequel, the one that we had. Yeah, I guess. A pre-sequel. A pre-sequel. And War of the Rorim is coming.

[00:35:03] Yeah, they saw that. And that's a very cool story. I hope that it's good. We know that it was done just to keep the rights, but that doesn't mean it can't still be good.

[00:35:13] That is fine. And it is going to be out, let's see here, end of the year. It is slated for December 13th at this stage. That could change, but that's what we've got so far. And then Dune 2, which is going to be huge. And that's March 1st.

[00:35:32] All right. So there's plenty coming. Alicia and Jean are talking about some DC comic related stuff. We're about to announce Maryland's show. We recorded the little teaser thing for that. And when we're actually official, that will come out.

[00:35:54] I'm excited to hear that one. That's going to be really cool. I'm excited to see here, Jean and Alicia do. I didn't mean to steal their thunder, but Maryland's been talking this up for a while. So I know more about that so far.

[00:36:05] Right. And I know Alicia has got a whole bunch of other things that she's got cooking. She's always got stuff cooking. That is a busy kitchen. That stove's always on. That's right. So there's going to be a lot happening this year, dear listeners. So buckle

[00:36:19] up because I don't think this is going to be... Everybody said, oh, it's going to be slowing down. There's going to be consolidation, this, that. I don't know. It feels like a fire hose at this

[00:36:28] stage. And we're barely into the year. We're not even into the new year and we have so many shows listed with no dates. And there's always the things that have no dates and then just pop up and they're just in your face.

[00:36:42] I know. I know. And as we look at this list, I'm like, yeah, there's a lot. There's a lot. You even brought up Avatar The Last Airbender with me the other day, which I'm very nervous about. Right.

[00:36:53] Absolutely love that cartoon. But there was... Do you know about the drama with the showrunners? No, no. I haven't heard anything about that. So you know how M Night Shyamalan did a horrible movie of it back in the day?

[00:37:07] No, I did not see that. Airbender was a good... Gosh, I missed it by a clean mile. So it was just never part of my world. It's a great cartoon and it's not long. It's only three seasons. I would recommend it if

[00:37:23] you have the time and want to do it at some point. It's got a lot of heart. It had a clear beginning, middle and end. It's really great. But anyway, so the original show went three seasons on

[00:37:36] Nickelodeon, very well received. M Night Shyamalan liked it and made a horrible movie about it. And he wanted to do multiple movies. They only covered the first season in it and they were

[00:37:46] just like, no, it's so bad. We're not doing any more. And then they finally greenlit this... And there was a sequel anime too, I should say. And then now they've greenlit this live action adaptation. And originally we had heard that the showrunners from the original show

[00:38:07] were on board and they were doing it with them. And that was great. And then like a year ago, we heard that they left out of creative differences, the people who made the show

[00:38:18] that we liked. And we're like, that's not a good sign. Now the trailer looked cool, so it could still be good, but it makes me very nervous that the people who made the beloved work

[00:38:33] were like, yeah, this isn't the vibe. That's not a good indication. That's a bad sign. Okay. Well, I know John and Alicia said that they're both interested in it too. So maybe

[00:38:49] it's a one shot. I mean, I'm not going to not watch it. Right. Exactly. It's eight episode binge. Definitely a one shot. We're done covering binge shows as full coverage. Yeah. It's just very hard. It's very, very hard. Okay, John, I think that's enough chitter chatter

[00:39:11] and we've got a whole bunch of holiday messages, what normally be our feedback section. A bunch of people wrote in to send their holiday greetings to us into the Lorehounds community. How Christmassy. You should play the music again. Oh, wait. Yeah, here we go.

[00:39:32] Got to remember to put this on the Patreon benefit. Yeah. I heard your Doctor Who theme this morning when the episode dropped and it didn't sound like it wasn't the Doctor Who theme. You know what I mean? It sounded like that's what should be the Doctor Who theme.

[00:39:53] It's so close to the sound that we normally do that I was like, oh, that's actually a perfect theme. So I didn't want to skip it. It's a good one. All righty. First up is Marilyn R. Pukula, our favorite Tolkien scholar.

[00:40:12] She just wrote in the Discord, holiday greetings, blessings and joy on whichever holidays you celebrate. Well, thanks, Marilyn. And to you. Do you want to read Nancy M's? Sure. We can go back and forth a little bit.

[00:40:26] Nancy M says, and Nancy M is a lore master, of course. Season's greetings, John, David and the Lorehounds community. Where to start? I was first introduced to you by Bald Move. I wanted more than just a scene by scene rehashing of plot.

[00:40:41] And with you, I got thoughtful dives into the lore and the author. Then you decided to continue coverage of other shows. And I watched and listened along. You decided to add books to your repertoire. And I started reading and reading and reading. You created Discord. We created Discord.

[00:40:56] We created Discord. That's an accomplishment. We're millionaires. I know. I know. Maybe billionaires. Who knows? Maybe even billionaires. Yeah. And I found a community of people I could connect with. You added Marilyn, Alicia, Anthony and Steve. And I fell in love with all of them. And Jean.

[00:41:12] And Jean. Yeah. Let's not forget him. It didn't take long for me to realize that the Lorehounds had become a big part of my life while doing housework, gardening and walking the dogs or sometimes just sitting on the deck with a glass of wine, listening and laughing along.

[00:41:24] So the next logical step was to become a lore master. Your shout out at the end of every episode is not necessary, but it sure does make me feel special each time. Well, Nancy, that's such a lovely comment. Thank you for writing in your season's greeting.

[00:41:37] I'm so happy that we can be with you throughout all your housework and make it a little easier for you. And I'm spiritually there with you. We're spiritually there with you. We're on the deck with you drinking wine. Exactly. All bundled up in the winter weather.

[00:41:52] Maybe we're sitting by the fire in this case. I think it goes to the thoughtfulness that we're trying to approach this is that we're not just trying to be one way out kind of thing, but we really do want to create that sense of community,

[00:42:09] even though we don't talk to most of our listeners. The fact that people feel like they're part of something as opposed to just consuming one way media traffic. So yeah, definitely. And it's really nice to hear this because I've had podcasts

[00:42:26] where I feel like I'm sitting with friends and this sounds like you've gotten there with us and that's really meaningful to me. Yeah. Next up, Doves71, our lore master Dove, who has been a faithful writer in and an active part of our community. He says, Hi, David.

[00:42:44] Hi, John. Wow. How time flies, eh? 2023. It's been a strange year for me. Starting off with an incidence of poor mental health, necessitating leaving my job. It was the newly found spare time, which saw me walking the woods with my dog, Riley,

[00:43:02] coupled with wanting some more deep dives into Andor that led me to the wonderful worlds of the lore hounds. You guys turn out such a consistently great product, but it's so much more than that. You have built a welcoming, inclusive, and massively geeky community

[00:43:18] that has filled the year with so much amazing analysis and hot takes. I've been introduced to the truly beautiful Earthsea saga via you and Marilyn, the mysterious and intriguing worlds of Hugh Howey with Alicia, as well as coming along for the ride

[00:43:33] on the hit or miss rollercoaster of Marvel with Jean. And who could forget Properly Howard? Those guys have been responsible for some funny looks from passersby as I've burst a spontaneous into spontaneous giggles and belly laughs with their unique takes on some of my beloved cultural touchstones.

[00:43:53] All in all, it's been a really benefit. It's really been a benefit. All in all, it's been really beneficial to be a small part of such a vibrant community. And I've really enjoyed putting some more thought and feedback into shows like Foundation.

[00:44:06] And I'm immensely grateful to John and Alicia for turning me on to the Wheel of Time. Book six, and I'm still going strong. Book six is my favorite. So I hope you like it, dude. That's my favorite book of all time in that series.

[00:44:23] So at this time of the year, I can reflect back on where I started and where I am now, much happier, healthier. And even if I'm eating too many minced pies. So thanks guys for being such an enjoyable part of my year. I'm winding down from my business.

[00:44:37] I've got my girls home for the holidays and I'm gearing up for the Lord of the Rings rewatches extended editions. So life is grand. Hope you guys have a well-earned break and get to spend some quality time with your loved ones. And I'm really looking forward to seeing

[00:44:52] what you've got cooking for 2024. Dove, what can I say? You're always writing in and it's great to hear from you. And I'm always glad that you're part of the conversations because it's so much more fun to have the dialogue when people are talking back with us

[00:45:07] and sharing their hot takes. And yeah, it's great to have you as part of this community. And it's interesting too, the way he says that, how the podcasts have been with him on sort of a journey and it's part of his life, like Nancy said,

[00:45:23] or who was it that was in hospital a long while back? Oh yeah, I don't think it was a patron. No, but anyway, one of our listeners. During The Last of Us, I think. Yeah. And these kinds of things. And you and I, when we started this,

[00:45:39] we were like, let's just nerd out on some Lord of the Rings, esoteric. A few episodes. It was a three episode run originally we were planning to do. And here we are. And then it doubled and then it tripled and then it kept going.

[00:45:52] And now we're over 150 podcasts for the year. So half of your year has been consumed by us being in your feeds. Mm-hmm. We are invading the ear holes of all of the world. That's just a wrong, wrong- Well, I said it and I can't go back. Brian8063.

[00:46:12] Brian8063 and Doof71, I think they joined about the same time. So for me, they always occur as like these two lore master brothers, you know? Because they both have good takes and are thoughtful and thinking about stuff and they both joined around the same time.

[00:46:29] And they were both like really active in the community, like right away. And so I always sort of twin them in my mind. I always think of them together. Yeah. And also they both are very active, both in the Discord and through feedback.

[00:46:45] So we feel like we know them well. In a parasocial kind of way. Nancy M's always writing in too and I appreciate that. Oh no, no, don't forget to read her. Sorry. Oh, sorry.

[00:46:53] I skipped it because I was focusing on Nancy M because we had it pasted twice in the- Oh, did we? In the outline. That's all right. Second Breakfast. We see it's... If you're not on the Patreon and you're like, this is much more loosey-goosey

[00:47:07] than I'm used to on the Loreons feed, that's what it is. This is Second Breakfast. We keep it real. We keep it real. Brian8063 lore master writes in and says, I just wanted to wish everyone a happy holiday.

[00:47:18] We have a tradition in our home of watching the Albert Finney movie Scrooge from 1970. Oh, that's a really good one. On Christmas Eve. Yeah. So this is not the Bill Murray Scrooged. Isn't it? Oh, no. Maybe it's not. Oh, no. You know, I was thinking Scrooge.

[00:47:31] That's my bad. I don't think it is. Yeah. I think this is a different one. Yeah. I think you're right. Okay. I do like Scrooged. Maybe next year we'll do that one. Ooh, that would be fun. Yeah. Anyway, it's always a great gift to listen to these podcasts,

[00:47:45] hear the insights and get me thinking about the lore and the content. Every podcaster works hard. So I hope everyone gets a break and enjoys the time off. You all deserve it. Well, thanks, Brian. Our larger community is another gift that keeps on giving.

[00:47:58] Talking with everyone on Discord is a treat as we build a positive community. Over the year, I got great book recommendations, show slash movie insights and laughs. So cheers to a new year of interaction and content. All the best, Brian8063. Cheers to you, Brian. Brian, you're.

[00:48:16] Yeah, go ahead. First of all, no, you should go first. You go first this time, David. I've been hogging the mic. I just had an idea and I had to roll with it, but you go. Go for it. Go for it.

[00:48:27] I just think, you know, Brian, I think, and Stu and Nancy and everyone who wrote it. When we get messages like this, it just feels like, okay, yeah, we're doing the right stuff, right? We're reflecting back the right kinds of things.

[00:48:43] I remember when we were doing the White House Plumbers, which was, I wish it was a better show. It was a medium show. It was a medium show, indeed. And yeah, it was just great to have somebody like Brian who knew something about the subject and we

[00:49:00] could give them a voice to share something that they know as part of the community and back to the community. So I just really appreciate Brian willing to throw in with that kind of esoteric information and

[00:49:13] deeper insights, which is very much about who we are as a community. Yeah, it makes it a lot better, a lot better when you're watching a show that you're not maybe super into. I wanted to say that, Brian, you've inspired me now to develop, I would say,

[00:49:30] spooky Christmas or edgy Christmas for next year? So we got Scrooged, let's do Krampus. Okay. And then what's that one with Hopper where it's like a horror thriller for Christmas? That's a genre I know very little about. Hopper, Stranger Things. I have to figure out the actor first.

[00:49:53] Okay. Okay, that is David Harbour. Yes, that's right. David Harbour and he did Violent Night. That's what it's called. So this is, you should watch the trailer, David. It's a thriller on Christmas where he's like a badass Santa Claus fighting things off.

[00:50:14] I like this idea of having, we can obviously, spooktober is an easy themed thing, but having a different theme for Christmas, or for December, we should say, not Christmas, but December. But there's no good Hanukkah movies. It's going to be Christmas movies. It really isn't. There are no.

[00:50:31] What are we going to do? But then we can throw in different films. I like this idea and have some fun with it. Do a little bit of extra coverage in the month on some of these sillier films. Yeah. Yeah. We'll have a fun time.

[00:50:46] I need to put that in the notes. I got to make a note of that right now before I forget. Violent Night. Violent Night, Krampus and Scrooged, which actually, Scrooge is the odd man out on that one. Okay. It's intense though, Scrooge. It is. It is.

[00:51:04] Night, Scrooge, and what was the other one? I'd put Violent Night, Scrooge and Krampus. Krampus. Which is the Germanic evil Santa. Right. I guess the premise is that the boy wishes his family would go away and Krampus comes to grant the wish. Okay. Can we do it like-

[00:51:22] It's Home Alone, but reversed. Can we do an action themed one? Do stuff like Die Hard and Lethal Weapon? Yeah. Lethal Weapon on Christmas. Lethal Weapon is a Christmas movie. No, it's not. It takes place during Christmas. I don't believe you.

[00:51:39] I've never watched it, but I don't believe you. Have you ever watched the- You have not ever seen the original Lethal Weapon? Oh my God. I have not. I have not. I have seen the fake sequels by the It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia crew. Okay.

[00:51:50] You know they do that? No, I have not seen those. They've done three of them. We can trade. They've done three fake sequels. Okay. One of them is no longer available for public conception because it was too inappropriate. They took it off air.

[00:52:03] I'm sure the internet has it. It had blackface in it. Okay. Oh, okay. It was not great. Okay. It was not great. But anyway, the characters are portrayed as being assholes, but it's just like, let's not do that anymore. You know what I mean?

[00:52:17] Let's just not even have the bad characters do blackface anymore. No, not a good thing to do. Anyway, but the other ones are very funny. Okay. Well, next up is Nancy M., another lore master. Season's greetings, John, David and the Lorehounds community. Where to start?

[00:52:37] Wait, we read this. Yes, that's what I was trying to tell you. Goodness me. I was trying to cross it out, but then- We had a whole thing. We had a whole thing with it. There we go. Hey, bloopers and all on Second Breakfast. Aaron K., Loremaster.

[00:52:52] Hey, Lorehounds, Aaron K. here. Wishing you and all your families happy holidays this winter. Thanks for all the amazing content that keeps me company on dog walks. There's a lot of dog owners here in the Lorehounds community. We're the cat people.

[00:53:06] While writing papers and of course, while holiday shopping, I can't express enough gratitude for the great content and welcoming community that you've all built and wish you guys continued success. I'd also like to shout out my fellow Lorehounds community members who are always having fun

[00:53:21] and engaging conversation on the Discord. Happy holidays, y'all. Thanks, Aaron K. Yeah, happy holidays. I think we've pretty much said what we need to say about developing community at this point. We discussed about that for the last three ones. That's right. Copy, paste, Aaron K.

[00:53:41] It's the same sentiments apply. We really, really appreciate that you're writing in and that you're being a part of our community and we chat with you on the Discord. So thanks. Yeah, thanks for being a Loremaster too. All your guys' support.

[00:53:57] I just was doing some end of year books and boy, there's software and subscriptions and all kinds of stuff and we try to make sure people's time, we respect our other co-hosts' time so that they're being taken care of as well.

[00:54:11] So the Loremasters really hold the center of things together. And so thank you for choosing to be a Loremaster. Absolutely. All right, we've got Peter O.H., Loremaster again. Hello, David. Hello, John. Hello, Peter O.H.

[00:54:31] I just wanted to wish you and your families a happy and peaceful Christmas. I have very much enjoyed listening to you both and your collaborators these past 12 months. Around this time last year, I had always... I had... Man, I'm going to restart this line.

[00:54:46] Around this time last year, I had just started my new job. I had unexpectedly lost my previous one about a month earlier. I was a little down during that time, but listening to the Lorehounds for a few hours a week was a welcome escape from my real life.

[00:55:00] So thanks, you guys. Well, that's lovely. I'm sorry that you've lost your previous job, but it sounds like you're back on your feet. So nice work. Myself and my family are looking forward to relaxing over the holidays. One of our favorite Christmas movies is The Muppet Christmas Carol.

[00:55:20] So that will definitely merit a rewatch. Michael Caine is just fantastic. For 2024 and beyond, the shows I am most excited for are Andor, Rings of Power, and Noah Hawley's Xenomorph TV show. That can't be a thing. Yeah, we talked about it. Remember on the... That's the alien.

[00:55:39] The alien is Alien from Aliens. It's called Xenomorph. I'm sorry. I thought... For some reason, my brain was telling me anamorphs. Do you know what anamorphs are, David? No, I do not. All right. I need you to go on Google right now. I'm right now.

[00:55:53] And go to Google Images and look up anamorph like 90s covers. Anamorphic. Anamorph. Anamorph 90s covers. And look at the horrors that they were feeding us in the early 2000s. Wait, what am I looking at? Anamorph what? 90s covers because they're book covers. 90s covers. Okay.

[00:56:14] Yeah, you can go to Google Images and they'll be right there. Oh, they're like... They're shapeshifters. Yes. I see this. But look at how horrific these transformations are. It's terrible. It's absolute garbage. And this is what we had in the early 2000s. Oh, the girl... This was art.

[00:56:39] So this is what I thought that they were saying Noah Hawley is doing next. Okay. I'm glad it's not. The cat one's not bad. The kid that turns into a snake is really weird. Oh, it's bad. It's bad. Super bad. I've never seen these before.

[00:56:55] And if you're listening and you don't know what I'm talking about... Starfish, what the hell? Yeah. It's just crazy. Yeah. And it's really bad AI art. Can we just feed an AI engine with this stuff? Probably. I'm sure somebody has. This would be perfect.

[00:57:12] We had a lot of weird stuff like this in the early 2000s. There was a secret life of, I think, Alex Mack, I want to say. And this was about a girl who could turn into a pool of oil. Okay. That was her superpower. Amazing.

[00:57:25] It was just so many things. Anyway, all right. I would have to get to the cheetah. There's one of somebody turning into a cheetah and another one of somebody turning into a cat. And I kind of have to get those for my daughter now.

[00:57:38] She's a big time cat mom. So if you really want to, then go for it. Oh, wow. There's two. The beast inside. Make sure you get the classic covers though. The classic horrific covers. Yeah. No, these are amazing. Yeah. The least. Peter OH continues.

[00:57:54] Anyway, thanks again for the hours of entertainment. And I look forward to seeing what 2024 brings for the lorehounds and the lorehounds community. Do you know how to say this, David? No. I'm not. All right. You know what? I'll try. Okay. No, I don't know. I don't know.

[00:58:15] I think it might be. Is it Irish or what? Probably Gaelic something. I don't know. I don't know. Peter OH, if you want to write in again with what it means. Yeah. But maybe we should just look it up. Yeah. Happy Christmas in Irish Gaelic.

[00:58:28] Oh, does it give you the phonetics? I suppose if I said, there's a pronunciation. Yeah. How to say here it is. Here's a, there's YouTube videos on it. Okay. And wait, here we go. No leg. Honour. Rich. No leg Honowitch. That doesn't make sense. You know what?

[00:59:01] The Irish, you have letters together that don't make sense. And I, that's not my problem. That's not my fault. Peter OH, thank you for your email and whatever you just said back at you. A lore master. Yep. As well. Next up, we've got a dork of the ninjas.

[00:59:18] One of our lore hounds, a frequent contributor in our MCU space. He was even wanting, he was willing to throw in on some Baldur's Gate three with us if we'd I know I saw, I saw it and then we got our lives. Baldur's Gate. Yeah. Organized.

[00:59:34] But we can't do mixed console play. Right? Yeah. Yeah. You gotta, I mean, I think dork of the ninjas has. I'm on Mac though. Oh, you can, you can do PC and Mac. You just can't mix with like Xbox and PlayStation. Oh, oh.

[00:59:48] So like if you, if we were all on steam and running on a computer. Oh, well that gives me hope then. I was really, I had lost all hope. Yeah, no, you can mix with PC. Okay. As long as it's not like a console. Right, right. Yeah.

[01:00:02] X, Xbox or PlayStation or whatever it is. Yeah. Okay. All right. Cool. Well, he's got a voicemail, so I'm going to click play on that now. Hey guys, just wanted to say happy holidays and Merry Christmas everybody.

[01:00:16] Hope everybody has a great new year, enjoying all the work y'all doing and all the content you've been putting out. Hopefully you just keep growing. Hopefully we'll be hearing at least 200, if not 300 patrons in the coming year. Oh, patrons.

[01:00:31] I thought he was going to say, but we will just see that happen. And I'm here to on the ride to see where we go. All right. Have a good one. Thanks, Michael. Thank you. We would love to have a lot more patrons. That is for sure. Yeah.

[01:00:45] And it would help us get our podcast count up. Michael, maybe we'll give you a call for Boulder Skate if we ever get our lives together. And thanks for calling in. I love when people call in. It's nice to have different voices show up on the pod. Yeah.

[01:00:58] And hopefully when Alicia and Joan get around to formulating their comic book DC plans, there'll be some more stuff to talk about in those universes as well. So looking forward to some more contributions from you, Michael. Michael also calls in for all the MCU stuff, right?

[01:01:19] Yeah, that's what I was saying. Yeah, that's what I was saying. Okay. Okay. Gotcha. Cool. For Lisa, I slipped this one in. It was in the discord. Yay. Slipped in during our recording last night. Oh, says and is a lore hand, by the way. Love this community.

[01:01:34] Love talking TV genre, talking, Le Guin, et cetera, et cetera. Happy halls, everyone. Yay. Happy halls. For Lisa. Yeah. I had to have her as part of our community. And again, one of our test listeners for our original pod. And we're always grateful for that. OG.

[01:01:53] That like OG before OG. Is there like a pre OG? Is there something that comes before? I don't know. We'll have to workshop it. Davie Mac, who I have to give a big special thanks to because him and Greg Saw did a

[01:02:10] tremendous amount of work on cleaning up the data, getting in there with pivot tables and slicers and all kinds of Excel Kung Fu and got everything put into shape so that we can

[01:02:25] present the data to you guys about what were the shows that as a community we ranked as our favorites for 2023. So Davie Mac, thanks so much. He's working all the way in a far other time zone in Japan as it is.

[01:02:42] And so we catch him in the mornings and the evenings as he was opposite starting his day. And he's like, OK, well, I'll see you tomorrow morning. And then we'd just be starting our day. And he'd pop back in the afternoon to do some more work.

[01:02:55] So Davie Mac, thank you so much for being such a enthusiastic member of the community. And he says it's been great chatting and connecting with everyone through the discord this year. And I hope you all have a great holidays. Thanks, Davie Mac.

[01:03:09] And again, like David said, I can't say enough how cool it is that you were able to do so much work with the data and make it look as pretty as you did alongside Greg. So zero. Yeah. So thank you so much.

[01:03:23] Danny, who is a lore hound, says happy holidays to the entire lore hounds community, wishing you all the best. It's been great to connect with you all and talk about the things we love and sometimes don't without a lot of the negativity that comes with other social media.

[01:03:37] Always look forward to jumping on the discord and seeing what you all are saying. Cheers. That's good to hear. I think it's an important point that we're really trying to be on the positive side of the feedback thing, even if we disagree with something or we don't

[01:03:54] like something, we're not doing it just to be naysayers. We're not just doing it to be negative, but because we love it, we care about stuff. And when we're disappointed or upset by something, we have to express it.

[01:04:06] And we want to be able to express it in constructive ways where other people can engage based on what we've said, not just engagement for engagement sake. Right? Yeah. I like when we can respectfully disagree and whatnot.

[01:04:20] And when you have a super wrong opinion, like Joel being a monster, that's... Or what was it? No, Joel not loving Ellie. That was it. No, he's a monster. When you're just wrong, then... We had a whole second podcast based on just that one statement. Yeah.

[01:04:39] Because we got so much feedback. That was a banger show, man. That was a huge show for us. That was fun. For us as a podcasting community. Yeah. It was great. All right, Corey G. Lorehound.

[01:04:51] Hey guys, found myself listening to the November 2nd Breakfast, eating fast food in my car again. No. Corey, this is becoming a disturbing pattern. As high winds knocked out power at my home while I was at work.

[01:05:06] Thankfully it's only out for about seven and a half hours this time compared to three days last time. I think Corey's up in Nova Scotia, I think if I remember right? I think so. But when he wrote this in, the weather report here is relevant.

[01:05:24] And high winds and rain are again being forecast for Tuesday the 19th. It's almost as if the weather is waiting for you to record your next second breakfast episode. Hey, that's when we're recording right now. It is actually. Good Lord. That's funny.

[01:05:39] We couldn't have timed this better because this got bounced. We've chopped up the recording segments and this is like the third day of recording for this one podcast. So we could not have planned that better. John, are we weather gods? Do we actually control the weather? We might.

[01:05:53] I didn't think so, but I mean, I guess you hit publish on Red Circle and it just controls the weather. I like it. Merry Christmas, happy holidays to you and all and see you next year. Thanks Corey G. Hope to see you before then.

[01:06:06] And just happy to be in the car with you while you're eating fast food. Always. And I hope your power plant stays functional. Hilarious. Okay. I guess I'll read the first part of this. Yes. And then we're going to have, okay.

[01:06:20] Adrian Loremaster always last but not least on the order. And I'm assuming that you put him last partially for that reason. Partially for that reason, but then also partially to save my throat, save my voice. Yeah.

[01:06:34] So I walked into you rehearsing what you're about to do when we were about to record. And I was like, what the hell is he doing? I had the screen open and I was just watching the video really quick and just waiting for

[01:06:47] John to show up because we were trying to synchronize. I didn't realize it was open. I kind of forgot that it was there. Yeah. All right. So Adrian starts off with a normal message saying, this is for the second breakfast.

[01:06:59] My message is to be read in a regular voice. And so I read this part and I was like, why do you tell me to read it in a regular voice when I always read it in a regular voice? All right. Happy holidays to the lorehounds family.

[01:07:11] I feel very fortunate to have been involved with such a loving, kind and intelligent group of people. It's been a fantastic year full of lovely TV and movies and even lovelier discussions about them.

[01:07:23] I'm thankful for all of you and look forward to our conversations in the discord and over the podcast airwaves in 2024. Well, thanks Adrian. Would you like to respond to Adrian's serious message before we move on to the next part?

[01:07:37] I just really grateful for Adrian who recently joined up and has been very active and has contributed a whole bunch of stuff recently, especially around movies and things like that. And yeah, it's just been really lovely.

[01:07:52] He's also apparently lives in the same neighborhood that I used to live in Brooklyn. And so, yeah, we had a whole interaction around that. So we've got our New York contingent in the house with him and a few other people.

[01:08:05] So yeah, it's just been really fun having him super active in the last few months. Nice. Happy to oblige your being last always on the Patreon shout outs. I thought that was pretty funny.

[01:08:19] Now to be read by David in the style of Mr. Randy Macho Man Savage Esquire. Okay, I got to get in character for this. This is probably going to kill my voice, but we should put the link. Oh, I didn't copy the link in the email.

[01:08:34] It's still probably in the email somewhere. We should put that in the show notes so people can see it. You're publishing it. So go ahead. Okay, here we go. Oh, yeah. Nothing, nothing except the lore hounds, which means everything because the cream rises to the

[01:08:57] top. Let me see it out loud and let me point the finger to all the other podcasts. We are the cream of the podcasting world, and you will rise to the top. Oh, yeah. If you need inspiration, thank you both. Much love, Adrian. Good job, David. Thank you.

[01:09:22] Fantastic job. And thank you for requesting it was a staple of growing up with the World Wrestling Federation stuff. So David has privately pledged to take on any impression you request of him. So anyone. Oh, I'm hot now. My throat. It wasn't that bad.

[01:09:43] Actually, the thing about Randy much of it averages that it's like really constrained and constricted. So anyway, well, that's the last of our messages. So thank you all for writing in and sharing your greetings with the community. And I think after this, we're going to do our top 10.

[01:10:02] John, do you have anything else you want to wrap up with for this segment? Well, I guess a happy new year to all of you, except you, David, because you made me watch Kaleidoscope. I thought I had atoned for my sins already for that.

[01:10:20] But that's later in the podcast. So. Oh, okay. Right. All right. Right. You're already working it out. Yes. Wibbly wobbly time. You want me got it. You're setting up the podcast. Very good. All right, John.

[01:10:30] Well, we will see you on the other side of this little musical interlude. And from there, we will get into our top 10. All right, John, it is that time of year for us to look at the year in review and do our top 10 rankings.

[01:10:57] I kind of it kind of shocks me that we're here, like that. It's the end of the year already. I'm kind of I don't know. I'm still in a stunned state. It went very quick, but also we recorded like what, like 150 podcasts or something.

[01:11:11] So it's not like we weren't busy. I guess on any given day, there's a 50% chance you had new content from us. That's right. That is. Yeah, that's right. Every other day, almost given the thing. And we're not done yet.

[01:11:26] There's still probably going to be a couple more popping out at the end of the month. Yeah, and to think that we started 2023 off with Kaleidoscope. Yeah, I still haven't fully forgiven you for that, but maybe by the end of 2024.

[01:11:45] And or doesn't give me enough bank to carry on for a couple of years. You did convince me on and or and Fargo too. All right. All right. I think you've earned it back. Just squeaked through. Just squeaked it. Squeaked in.

[01:11:56] Although Kaleidoscope is a big, that's a heavy hitter on the negatives. Compared to some of what else that we got this year, it really was kind of tough. Yeah. And we were breaking ourselves in a little bit on different formatting ideas.

[01:12:11] And we tried to do, we had two triple coverage zones this year because we had the full coverage of Wheel of Time Foundation and Ahsoka. But earlier in the year, we had Barry, Ted Lasso. And what was the third one? White House Plumbers, which was it.

[01:12:33] I wouldn't say that's nearly as bad as Kaleidoscope, but it was a little bit of a dud. But it was down there in that bottom thing. And we were trying to do that short form coverage and get them out quick and turn them around. Yeah.

[01:12:46] We experimented a lot this year with our formatting. We came up with one shots. That's been, I think, a successful new format. And- Got plenty of stuff going. Yeah. We've grown the family quite a bit. That's, I think, our biggest achievement of the year.

[01:13:04] I think our editing workflows have gotten so much better now too. I'm editing now. You can too. And yeah. And we've got all that done. That feels like I was able to turn around the one shot with Brandon on the Leave the World Behind movie really quickly.

[01:13:26] It was just, oh, boom, boom, boom. And it was out the door. Nice. So yeah. Yeah. It's nice when you have a quick edit like that. Yeah. Very easy. Get them out the door. So how do you feel about television? What's the state of television in your mind?

[01:13:41] It's funny because I wasn't a huge TV guy, like Prestige TV, always catching every new thing that came on until last year when we started doing this. And then I decided to just follow everything. And I did watch almost everything that were on people's lists,

[01:13:58] which is scary because that's a lot of time. But I did it. And honestly, I enjoyed TV this year more than I have probably any other year of my life. Oh, wow. There were just so many great hits, so many good shows.

[01:14:17] I think it was very easy to miss a good show this year because there was just so much on. The end of the year push here, too. There's like a whole bunch of stuff that I have barely even had a chance to catch up with.

[01:14:29] Even Fargo could have been on this list, right? If it hadn't finished. Exactly. Exactly. Scavengers reign. I mean, there's just all this stuff. It's like, where the hell? And then all the movies that are coming out at the end of the year. Yeah, it felt like a lot.

[01:14:45] It was a weird year, too. We thought we were going to probably have a few more shows and a few more movies, but then the strike happened. And then the streaming wars have been pretty interesting. It feels like Netflix is dominating the game right now.

[01:15:03] Which is weird because I feel like they have the weakest content. We were all singing their death knell. We were thinking that they were circling the drain last year and into the beginning of this year, and suddenly they're really strong and they're really flexing their muscles. Yep.

[01:15:20] I don't know. They keep raising the price and we keep buying it for some reason. For some reason. We have these not great shows and we just keep coming back. Mm-hmm. But the video on demand, what they have in their library is pretty deep.

[01:15:39] And more often than not, our eight-year-old is watching stuff on Netflix. There's a huge amount of content for baking shows, other silly competition things. There's lots of good animal stuff on there. Yeah, we're on Netflix a lot.

[01:16:00] I would say after that it would be Disney and then maybe HBO Max. Those are the three real solid things. But then a lot of the Friday night watching that we're doing with my spouse and I, it's either Apple TV or Hulu, it feels like. So- Interesting.

[01:16:20] I would say my top used apps are Max and Disney. Okay. Those would be my top ones. Apple, I love the content on Apple, but I basically only use it when there's something new on. I don't use that for browsing random stuff.

[01:16:38] I'll just go on Max or sometimes Netflix, but usually Max for a documentary or something like that. And then as you know, I've been annoyingly watching Doctor Who all the time and that's all on Max. So- Right, right. And now it's going to be on Disney.

[01:16:52] So I guess my two apps will still be working for me. There you go. You know, for Apple TV, for being the leader, you know, a, the leader, if you want to say in software and hardware technology, the UI, the user interface on Apple TV sucks.

[01:17:10] It's the worst. Yeah. But also the resolution and reliability on the image is probably the best, I would say. Is it? Okay. It's very, very good. And even if you get like the Apple TV box, which I had at some point and I don't use

[01:17:26] it anymore, but it's known for being like the best connectivity compared to like a Fire Stick or a Roku or something like that. Interesting. So they are, they are into the tech. I think that they're just UI is kind of awkward. Yeah. Yeah. I kind of like Hulu.

[01:17:41] I like their interface a little bit better. The Disney one is terrible for scrubbing when you're trying to do podcasting and you got to like review a scene really quick. That's really annoying. So I do like Netflix gives you the option to speed up. I do love that.

[01:17:57] Yeah. If you're only in browser, but still it's something. It's so useful. It's so useful because there's sometimes there's shows where I'm, yeah, I just want to, I want to move along with it. And when it won in 1.2 was great. Dishonorable mention of an app.

[01:18:12] I've been using Brit box to watch classic doctor who and it's horseshit. No, really? Because you can't even do picture in picture and I'm sorry. But if I'm watching a serial from 1963, I'm definitely multitasking. Right. You're, you're, you're second screening. Yeah. You're doing two things for sure.

[01:18:31] Especially on the phone for sure. On a tablet. Absolutely. So how is the who going? You're, you're going deep. You're going, I've nearly finished new who, of course we, there's not a consensus yet on how to name the new, new who.

[01:18:47] Because the, the new who is getting a whole new numbering sequence. It is getting a new numbering sequence because Disney basically was like, Hey, if we're funding this, we're calling the season one because we don't have seasons one through 13. Right. So yeah. Hey, it's season 14.

[01:19:03] Go back to the 1960s and go subscribe to max. Oh no, no, no. That season 14 would be if you only count from 2005. If there's like, I think like 30 seasons in the 20th century. Something like that. Yeah. Yeah. This show goes back to the 19th century. Yeah.

[01:19:20] It's a 20th century. Yeah. Amazing. And it looks like you guys are going to probably pick up some coverage on that into the next year. Yeah. We had a lot of fun talking about who we brought on a guest, Simon from the UK.

[01:19:35] So we, we had a variety of whovians in the chat and we, we had a really good time. I think we were all very hopeful for the future of it. Okay. It's not, it's not on my list because it didn't have a season this year.

[01:19:46] So I didn't even consider it. It just had specials. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Right. But I, but it may have placed if it were a full season. Three or four specials. There were three specials and there's going to be a fourth one on Christmas. Okay. Got it.

[01:19:58] And I watched the first one. It was fine. And I need to catch up on the next couple. I would say the second one is the best one of the three. Okay. The first one was very kid-friendly. Right. But this isn't a Dr. Who podcast, David.

[01:20:09] We have to rank our shows of the year. We do. And it didn't, it didn't rank. So it doesn't, it doesn't get included. Exactly. Well, let's talk a little bit about the criteria for how we're doing this and some of the special

[01:20:23] things that we cooked up for this year. If you listened to us last year, you will know that John has no criteria. It's all vibes. I'm all vibes. It's all vibes. And I have a really funky idiosyncratic thing where I classify by whether they're S-tier or

[01:20:47] A-tier, B-tier, that kind of thing. So that helps me group up the shows into different classes. And then I give them a one to 10 score for, and I call it the industry score. And this is for plot, CGI, acting, all of the developmental stuff.

[01:21:06] And if it's a show that in some way moves the needle and changes the industry itself and is groundbreaking in some way, then it can get an 11. And that is a signal that this show is so exceptional that the state of television has changed forever.

[01:21:27] So a Breaking Bad or a Mad Men would be in an 11 thing because it's opened up a new- You've got your spinal tap category. Exactly. This one goes to 11. This one goes to 11. We were doing that with our daughter the other day.

[01:21:38] She had something about something going to 10, and I kept saying, but what if it went to 11? Obviously, she's clueless about it. And my wife was laughing. She was having a little bit of a laugh. But why don't you just make 10 louder? Exactly. But this one goes to 11.

[01:21:51] It goes to 11. And then my third criteria is my personal enjoyment factor. Everything from, oh my God, this was so painful to watch. I can't believe that I suffered through this. I need to squeeze lemon juice in my eyes to clear it out.

[01:22:07] All the way through, hey, through five. It's a one through five score. And it's entirely subjective. Did I really enjoy something? How jazzed was I? How entertained was I? And that sort of helps me break a tie.

[01:22:20] So if something's at a 7.5, but one of them was, oh, it was fine. I enjoyed it. And then another one was like, that was great. That was amazing. That gives me a bump in the score. Nice. So, and it works for me.

[01:22:33] And one of the things that we did this year as well, besides adding our three bonus questions, which are what are our guilty pleasure shows? What were our biggest missed shows? And what were our most anticipated shows for coming up in the future?

[01:22:50] We asked those three questions as well to not only to all of our co-hosts, which you'll hear in the bonus second breakfast podcast. I think we're calling it 11 Z's. Our second, second breakfast. Gotta have 11 Z's. That's right. We asked that to our listeners.

[01:23:10] So if you're a Patreon subscriber, you had the opportunity to fill out a survey form. And thanks to some of our listeners, Sub-Zero, who had some inspiration and some ideas, and then Davie Mack and Greg Saw, who did a ton of work.

[01:23:29] And Greg Saw even further took it into a platform called Tableau, and we're able to visualize the data. And so we actually have a community ranking of all the shows that people plugged into the survey. And we weighted them.

[01:23:45] Sub-Zero said, well, why don't you guys do a Mario Kart ranking? And I was like, what's that? Basically, the different positions get assigned different point values. And then so- Yeah, it's helpful. It's helpful to see this kind of thing. Yeah.

[01:23:59] And then what we discovered even further was that we could look at platform data. So we could see what platform won the year that had the most points built up from having the most number of successful shows.

[01:24:14] And so all of this data is going to be available to Patreon subscribers early. And then once these podcasts go public, then we'll have some links for those so folks can see this data as well if you're not a subscriber.

[01:24:29] But to everyone who participated in the community draft, thank you so much. It was a lot of fun to put it together. And I think this is going to be a new ongoing tradition.

[01:24:39] And I think we've got some plans for next year to make it technically work a little bit better. This year, we're figuring out a lot of stuff. So I don't know. You've been able to look at some of this. What are your general impressions? It's so cool.

[01:24:53] And I'm so appreciative of our community for coming together and creating these cool graphics. It's incredible. And it's amazing to see how different things fared in the eyes of the community as we go. Sometimes, and I didn't change my rankings based on this,

[01:25:08] but I was like, am I going to have an unpopular opinion here? Because there's somewhere I was like, oh, that does not match the community. But oh well. We got to be honest with ourselves and with our community. So you can at me on Blue Sky. That's right.

[01:25:24] And the Discord. So join us on the Discord. So the way this... Some more stuff about how this works. This is for television shows that had their first episode air in 2023. Now, unfortunately, there was a couple of shows that are going to be spanning the new year.

[01:25:42] Like Fargo isn't finished yet. And some... I'm not sure if there's many more than that. And then there's other shows that just came out at the end of the year that we were just not able to fit into our end of the year viewing. So that's fine.

[01:25:58] I think that at least the top five, I don't think anything changes based on what has come out at the end of this year. So I'm feeling pretty solid about that.

[01:26:10] And I think if it works for you, John, what we can do is we can count down starting at 10. And we'll read the community survey ranking for that position first. Okay. And then we'll alternate between reading off what our top 10s are. And then we'll discuss those.

[01:26:31] And if we have... So say if my 10 is your 7, we'll just talk about it at 10. And then if you have other thoughts that you want to add when we get to your 7, we'll do it that way.

[01:26:42] I think last year we reversed it where we held the show until it got up. And I think this year we'll flip that a little bit. All right. If that's okay for you. Works for me. Okay, cool. All right. So let's get started.

[01:26:54] Number 10 for the community ranking was, get this, Ahsoka with 59 points. I'm impressed at how wrong everyone is. It didn't come near my list. I didn't even think about putting it on the list. I'm going to be honest with you. It is on my list at number...

[01:27:16] Let's see, where is it? I've got to open up this little spreadsheet thing here. It was at number 20 for me. Okay. I didn't go past 10. Sure, that's fine. You don't need to. The others are from my brain. I've got all this spreadsheet madness. Number 20. Yeah, all right.

[01:27:31] That might be fair. That might be fair. I mean, great. I'm glad people liked it. That's the nicest thing I could say about it. I'm glad that people liked it. I loved watching Hayden Christensen come back. And that was really a joy to see.

[01:27:45] Even the Ahsoka backstory, getting to see some live action Clone Wars. Some of the middle episodes were some of my favorite TV of the year, which is why it was such a shame it fell flat for me. But honestly, I don't blame people for picking it.

[01:27:59] I'm being facetious all here, but I don't blame people for picking it. It was largely an enjoyable show. And what's interesting is Mandalorian, it edged Mandalorian by one position. Mandalorian came in at 55 points at the 11th spot. Because I would have put the Mandalorian above Ahsoka.

[01:28:18] I didn't place the Mandalorian either. I'll just say that now. Mandalorian came in number 18. Actually, all the Star Wars were batched for me. That was 17, 18, 19, and 20. Okay. One Star Wars I almost put on my list, but I didn't, was the Bad Batch.

[01:28:32] I almost put that on my list, but I knocked it out for a couple other things. The last three slots on my list changed about five times. Right. So I just want to say some honorable mentions as we go because- Sure. Of course.

[01:28:46] I, it was really tough to knock people off the list at the end, but I did have to do it. And then at the end of the day, you just got to go, no matter what kind of crazy system you have, like me,

[01:28:58] at some point you just got to go with your gut. Yeah. And it can get tricky. I've got nothing but gut. So John, your number 10 is what? My number 10, as I erase it so that I can remember what I put is drum roll please. There it is. Silo.

[01:29:22] Okay. Because I changed this one a million times too. Okay. So it's Silo. I did really enjoy Silo. I wouldn't have watched it if Elish hadn't vouched for it, but it was really a refreshing take on a dystopian story.

[01:29:36] And those are stories that usually exhaust me to an end. But it really was very refreshing. I may be a little biased because I read all the books after I watched it. And I just feel like the story,

[01:29:51] the way that the ending sets up the rest of the story, the ending of the first season sets up the rest of the story, really makes it unique compared to other science fiction dystopian works. Right. Right.

[01:30:04] And it's great that Apple TV is investing in all these sci-fi properties. It makes me feel really good for the future of that service. So Silo on the community ranking is higher. We'll save, we'll wait for the reveal for that. Okay. All right.

[01:30:19] And for me, Silo came in at number 11. All right. Close. I really enjoyed that season. I thought the characters were really, I thought the world was really compelling. And for me, it just slightly fell short. And this is in by no means like a negative, right?

[01:30:39] This is such a battle of finite millimeter, whatever, small units of measurement. But I just feel like it's got a little bit more time to grow before it hits maturity and ranks up higher on my list. I mean, I'm looking forward to season two for sure. Fair enough.

[01:31:01] Yeah. But it wasn't just, it just kind of a little bit off for me. All right. A couple of scenes. Agree to disagree. No, I had a really great time with it. I'm really grateful that Alicia brought that to our attention and

[01:31:15] I joined our network just to cover it. Yeah, exactly. That's right. That was her entree into full on having her own full feed. And Hugh Howie seems like he's not slowing down. Hopefully we'll see a lot more. He's got two shows out this year. That's crazy. Yeah.

[01:31:30] Have you been catching up on beacon 23? I have not. I have not. You know what I've been doing. Yes. Everyone knows what I've been doing. Let's do a podcast in the last month. What was your number 10 though?

[01:31:42] So this is going to be maybe a little bit of a dark horse runner, but it was full circle. Okay. I've never heard of this. Right. It was a max show. It was directed by Steven Soderbergh.

[01:31:59] It starred Claire Danes, Zazie Beetz, Timothy Oliphant, Dennis Quaid, and a bunch of other folks. It was a wild ride and I loved almost every single minute of this show. It was a murder mystery set in New York City and it spanned a couple of countries and it

[01:32:24] involves three different groupings of people. I don't want to say too much that all get intertwined over something that happened in the past. There's three separate groups of people, but their lives are all intertwined.

[01:32:49] A murder plot goes awry and brings everybody into conflict, but they don't know that they're in conflict. They don't know who they're in conflict with or why or what's going on. So you're seeing the story shift from perspective to perspective.

[01:33:08] While one thing is going on over here, then they cut back and some other stuff is going on here until the story all comes together and then resolves. Steven Soderbergh literally was gorilla filming this on the streets of New York City.

[01:33:26] He was holding the camera in the passenger side of the car, filming his actors. They're in a van, right? There's a kidnapping thing, murder stuff going on, right? And so there's a group of people in this van and he's in the passenger seat of the van

[01:33:41] filming the driver who's an actor and the people in the back who are all actors. And they'll just pull up on a street corner, jump out and doing all this gorilla style filmmaking. That's super impressive. It was extraordinary.

[01:33:55] The acting talent across all of the different roles was incredible. Zazie Beetz was amazing. Timothy Olyphant was amazing. Claire Danes, I haven't seen Claire Danes. She was acting the hell out of this. It was so compelling too.

[01:34:13] So if you want a contemporary murder mystery style story that involves international conspiracies and deep history, things that people have been kept hidden secret in their past and not telling anybody and now the truth is out and all these frictions between families and stuff is happening.

[01:34:38] It was really exceptional television making. And I just was so enamored with the visual quality of it. And like I said, the acting and it was just such a compelling story. It kind of surprised me that it landed at 10, but it feels right.

[01:34:56] It feels really good to have it there. Well, if it feels right, it is right. Yeah. That's how these rankings go. So check it out. I mean, if you got time to circle back to it full circle, it's...

[01:35:07] And if you lived in New York, it's a lot of fun because there's a lot of New York in this. College shows like that. Park is there. Yeah, it was a lot of fun. So. Cool. All right.

[01:35:18] On to number nine and on the community rankings, this one really surprised me. I did not think it was going to... It was a shocker, but the community came in at 60 points. So just one point above Ahsoka for Yellow Jackets season two. Interesting. Yeah. Wow.

[01:35:43] I guess that's one of my misses for the year now. I'm going to add that to my big misses. All right. And so you didn't even have it. I didn't watch it at all. Okay. Did you?

[01:35:52] I watched a couple of episodes and I didn't really vibe with season one. And so I thought, I'll give season two a little bit of a try. And I just still... I don't know. There was something about the tonal shifts that they go through between the

[01:36:10] because there's three time frames, right? There's the flashback stuff. There's the plane crash stuff, which is also in the past. And then there's the current contemporary stuff. And I just had a really hard time and all three have very different tones.

[01:36:25] And I had a hard time really cutting across that. And I was really interested in the metaphysical, weird, what's going on, what's really going on here. But like there wasn't enough of... They weren't feeding me enough of that to keep me interested on a voyeuristic standpoint of like,

[01:36:44] oh, this is an interesting horror show, right? Right. That's doing this. Yeah. So it never quite hooked me. Okay. Well, that's all right. It didn't hook you at all. It didn't. Yeah. I mean, I watched the first...

[01:36:58] I think I watched the first two episodes of season one and I was just like, eh, it's a little violent. And I'm not Marilyn by any means. I mean, I don't need the Pukila test. But sometimes I'm just like...

[01:37:08] I think what bothers me is like really gratuitous violence, which that show often feels like it is. Okay. Right. Which is very much in the plane crash stuff. There was a lot of gore in the season one for sure. So yeah. All right, John.

[01:37:22] Well, what is your number nine for 2023? My number nine is What We Do In The Shadows. Wow. Oh, a half hour comedy makes the top 10. They deserve recognition too. And I want more good shows like this. There's very few out there now. True.

[01:37:43] There's very few good half hour comedies out there. That are true comedies. Not like a Barry or something. Right. Right. And I watched it with, as Lotso would say, my good lady wife. And it's just such a delight.

[01:37:56] And what I think speaks to me the most about it is that they actually make you care about a lot of the characters, even when they're doing awful things. And they actually make you go on an emotional journey with some characters.

[01:38:11] I don't want to spoil the last season, but one character's journey was very moving in this crazy show where you have cursed hats and they're just constantly just like terrible at being vampires. There's genies and nonsense. If you haven't watched it, it's basically just The Office,

[01:38:30] but for incompetent vampires instead. Right. And it does the whole floating camera, snap zoom stuff as well. And the look to the camera, like breaking the fourth wall. Yeah. It's perfect. It's perfect. I mean, I haven't seen... And I should say it's on season five

[01:38:49] and it's still as good as it's always been, if not better. Amazing. I dipped in and out a little bit of it last year. And I have just definitely not given it due consideration. Something I'm bad at, I'm just realizing this now,

[01:39:03] I'm not good at just popping on a 30 minute sitcom like that and just sort of folding some laundry and watching something like that in the background. And I don't know, maybe I should change my... It's very relaxing. That's like a...

[01:39:19] It's become a default show for us to put on if we're just hanging out at night and you want to watch a quick show before bed. That's a good idea. That's really the one that we default to now.

[01:39:29] And we used to only default to The Office, 30 Rock, Parks and Rec, things like that. So now we're moving on to vampires. That's also a good suggestion because my spouse and I sometimes on our Friday night watches, if we're in between something

[01:39:41] or we're watching a show right now that's weekly and we're caught up, we don't have two shows to go back to back to. So we might try to see if I can add that in the rotation. I don't know if she'll like that kind of humor.

[01:39:57] That's a good question. I don't know if she'd enjoy it or not. It kind of reminds me a little bit of, there was a show back during the 90s on television. It was a British one called Red Dwarf. Very much reminded me of that.

[01:40:10] Very much like Doctor Who or what was the... Oh, IT Crowd, things like that, where they're just silly and each one's independent. You don't have to have known the history of the whole arc and you can just enjoy it as you go. Yeah.

[01:40:27] Well, anyway, credit where credit's due. And I think credit is going to what we do in the shadows for my number nine. That's amazing. How about yours? Mine is, this one might be a little bit unfair because the season is not over yet,

[01:40:42] but it's Slow Horses on Apple TV, starring Gary Oldman. It is great fun and I am surprised it also ranked this high. It is pure television enjoyment. It's silly stuff, right? It's about a group of spies that are... It's like the office for MI5, right?

[01:41:10] They're the incompetence who've been shuffled off to something called Slough House, which I think wasn't in the British office. What was... Weren't they in Slough? I think that was the... I don't know. Yeah. I've never watched more than one episode of the British office and I don't remember.

[01:41:27] And they are sort of the incompetence, they've screwed up in some ways and so they've been relegated down. I was just being reminded of Ted Lasso. Anyway, and then they invariably end up in these high stakes things that challenge the power, the very centers of power and whatnot.

[01:41:50] And seasons one and two were pretty trashy in that there were some plot... Some of their plot elements were just completely unbelievable. This season, it's tightened up a lot more and the filming, the cinematography is excellent. Not a wasted shot. They're efficient. They are technically excellent.

[01:42:16] The acting is perfect. Gary Oldman as a over the hill, overweight guy who still smokes and has really bad body odor and running around the halls of power at MI5 and not giving any Fs is amazing to watch. And I got my wife to watch it with me.

[01:42:39] She is completely enamored with the show as well. We finished the most recent episode the other night and she's like, okay, let's play the next one. It's 1030 and it's like, well, we've got to go to sleep soon. And I'm like, well, we're caught up.

[01:42:52] And she's, what do you mean we're caught up? I'm like, it's not a binge show. It's a weekly show. We're caught up. She was like, her. It's just so damn entertaining and it's so technically well executed that I really hard

[01:43:08] time of them seeing that they're going to not land the plane on this season. Well, I'm glad it got its lip service here since it sounds good. I would like to see it.

[01:43:23] If you like spy stuff, if you like spy nonsense, it's a great show and it's contemporary. Oh, it depends. It really depends for me. It's sometimes I cringe to see it and sometimes I like it, but it's like, I'll enjoy an old Bond

[01:43:39] movie, but in the same way, I enjoy a lot of cringey things that were older. I think the modern spy stuff makes me go. This is more like, so they're MI5, but they're not like beat cops, but they're just, you know,

[01:43:53] they're normal everyday people who wear street clothes. They're in London and it's all very contemporary. So it's not like wrist rockets and x-ray vision glasses or anything like that. That's good with me then. It's mundane in the sense of it's here. It's set here on the primary earth.

[01:44:09] So. All right, cool. Yeah. All right. We're up to number eight and the community actually, interestingly enough, the point spread is the same, but the distribution is a little bit different. Mrs. Davis in at number eight for the community.

[01:44:30] Now that one of the things when we released the Tableau site, you'll be able to hover over the horizontal bar showing the number of points that a show gathered. Yep. And then if you hover over that, it will show you the distribution,

[01:44:47] how many votes it got at each position. So say with Mrs. Davis, it got two number one picks where Yellow Jackets got zero number one picks, whereas Yellow Jackets got two number nine picks and Mrs. Davis got no number nine picks, but it got a number 10.

[01:45:08] So you can see how the distribution falls across where people ranked it in the positions. So this is really cool data. It's really interesting. Yeah, it is. I mean, I love seeing all this. I'm so grateful to the community, honestly, because this is incredible looking.

[01:45:27] Yeah, it looks great too. So, all right, John, what is your number eight? My number eight, which I am revealing now in my Excel nonsense, is the fall of the House of Usher. Wow. Ranking it above what we do in the shadows, but it had a few nitpicks.

[01:45:51] There were some monologues that made me go, maybe that was a little too self-indulgent. But overall, Mike Flanagan's best work, I think. His best work, it told an amazing story about greed and what it can do to a family.

[01:46:08] And it had this seven deadly sins aspect that I really loved. It really wove in sort of, I want to say Western mythology. And I loved the way that it was narrated and strung together. I think that Carla Gugino had a masterful performance

[01:46:28] playing a ton of different kinds of characters in there. And I could not have asked for a better season. It was so good. It was really, really good. Every episode, I think, stood on its own legs. Wow. And that's a hard thing on a bin show, right?

[01:46:46] Yeah, for a limited series that was interlocking, but then for each of them to stand on their own, that's pretty wild. I personally think that I could recall what happened in different episodes because they were so well done. Hmm. Interesting. Because they felt like they had a theme.

[01:47:03] There was a reason why this episode had this and this episode had that. Right. And that's beautiful. The production design was great. They matched color schemes for the different characters. So they would do this thing where as a character would get closer to dying,

[01:47:19] the color that was assigned to them would get stronger in the background. Oh, wow. Like the film, the gradient would change. Wild. It was really cool. So overall, just amazing writing, amazing acting, amazing production. Very good. Go watch it. Okay.

[01:47:36] I started watching it and I got through about, I think, episode four. Okay. And I just haven't gone back to it. I haven't felt compelled to go back to it. Okay. And I think it just, yeah, I'm just sort of, I wasn't excited by it,

[01:47:52] but I wasn't turned off by it either. You know, it was just very neutral. It's a neutral oil for me. The community ranked it at number 12. So it got some good recognition overall. And I know Alicia really enjoyed it.

[01:48:08] And obviously she did a whole bunch of, you guys did a crossover pod and she did another crossover pod with Anthony on Bukalu. And so it generated quite a lot of buzz. That's really good that Mike Flanagan is, you know, like I'm going to put him in the

[01:48:22] same category of like Sam Esmail and Noah Hawley, young gun directors who are really pushing the boundaries of television, what we can do with this medium. And now that sounds cool. Like that kind of stuff of doing the visual, subtle visual cues. Yep.

[01:48:41] Like that's, I love that kind of stuff. You know, I neared out about that thing. It's also a very unique combination of inspiration and adaptation because this is not, you know, it's based on the stories of Edgar Allen Poe, but only loosely, but he'll pull in quotes

[01:48:56] and he'll pull in references to different stories that make sense and that tickle your brain for it. So there's, there's this sort of inspiraptive adaptation, you know, it's, it's, it's really, really good. It's really good.

[01:49:10] And I love seeing unique adaptations that I love when we try to tell a new story with old things. It's so impressive. And I will also say the reason I wanted to really include it on this list is this is the first landing. I think he's stuck completely.

[01:49:25] Okay. Every season, I think that he has a good, not great ending. And this season I felt the ending was incredibly satisfying. That's good. That's good. Yeah. What was the one about the island? The little community. Midnight Mass. Yeah. Midnight Mass.

[01:49:40] I was really disappointed by the ending in some ways just because it looks like they ran out of budget and there was just so much stuff that, but yeah, there was this huge buildup and then I was like, oh, okay. Yeah.

[01:49:52] You landed, you know, but so that's really great because I don't think that he's done. He's got a lot more to do and a lot more to say. It sounds like he's going to Apple next. Really? He's done with Netflix. Yeah. Oh, he's gonna throw some Apple money.

[01:50:09] Give him the bag. There you go. Wouldn't that be cool? That would be fun. That would be great to see some stuff. I mean, well, we'll talk about it when we get to the end, Apple's position in the overall platform rankings, but- Surprising.

[01:50:22] That would own, that would give them a really big advantage on things. So. Right. Cool. All right. Well, my number eight is another, I don't know, my bottom three here are very idiosyncratic shows. Okay. And shows that are not big marquee things, right?

[01:50:43] There's things that you would not have necessarily, you know, been blasted by their marketing department pushing them out and that kind of stuff. So for me, number eight is the gold, which I talked about earlier on some earlier podcasts. It really knocked my socks off.

[01:51:04] Again, it's a modern day UK crime show. There's a little theme here going on with all of mine. And it was based on a real historical event, the Brinksmatt gold robbery in England in the seventies.

[01:51:24] Some robbers went in to rob a bonded warehouse that's next to the airport. They have some trouble achieving their objective. And then they suddenly realize that they're staring at pallets full of gold, which were on this sort of unscheduled transit.

[01:51:44] And they're like, well, we can't get the things that we came here originally to get. So we'll just steal, you know, these, you know, I forget how many tons of gold it is, but like three tons of gold.

[01:51:55] And what you realize is it's through the course of the show and why the title of the show is The Gold because the, you know, what's the grammatical term for it? It's a proper pronoun preposition, something I'm going to get slaughtered. It's a definite article. Thank you.

[01:52:13] That's what it is. The definite article, The Gold is because the gold has its own weight and its own gravity and it bends society to it. And so as this cabal of criminals are trying to deal with and process the gold, as that money,

[01:52:35] as it gets laundered and it goes out into the systems, how it starts to affect the old power centers in England and the class structures, how it activates class structure in UK society.

[01:52:50] And then you have law enforcement and police and how they're tied into the power structures as well. And sort of old, literally old boy networks protecting certain aspects of, and people. It was expertly acted Hugh Bonneville, who was the patriarch in Downton Abbey.

[01:53:13] And he's been in some other stuff. You'd recognize him. He was just incredible in a way I've never seen him before. Jack Loudon, Charlotte Spencer, they just incredible performances. There's one woman is a detective and she comes from the East side kind of thing.

[01:53:35] And her father was a criminal, but now she's a cop. And so that has all of these conflicting elements for her. Really just an interesting look at English society, at British society, and then looking at how criminal syndicates work and what the imperatives are and how money warps

[01:53:54] and shapes society in this way. So the ending was a little bit soft. It was like, oh, they could have punched a little harder, which is why I didn't rank higher on my list.

[01:54:07] I really thought it was going to go into the top five, but the ending was just slightly off for me. But they have indicated that there's going to be a season two and they're going to pick up the real world story of what goes on next.

[01:54:19] So they left it open there a little bit. So. It's good to see shows getting renewed. I see there was a lot of worry about the strikes impacting renewals. And well, I think perhaps a few shows had that happen.

[01:54:33] It certainly wasn't the wave that we were worried about. It feels like even with all this talk about the streaming wars and because interest rates have changed and so free money is less available and Wall Street demand, blah, blah, blah, all this stuff.

[01:54:46] I don't feel like we're going to have that much of a noticeable contraction going into 24 and 25. No, I agree. I agree. I'm keeping our curated list of shows, which is going to be a new Patreon benefit soon. We've been sort of rolling it out, testing it.

[01:55:01] But I've got a whole show tracker thing. And as I'm looking at what's coming and keeping tabs on everything, there's a lot coming. 2024 is going to be a busy year for sure. And some heavy hitters like House of the Dragon probably Rings of Power, a lot.

[01:55:19] Can you imagine Rings of Power, House of the Dragon and what was one other big one? Wheel of Time. Wheel of Time, yeah. Let's not put that in the universe. How about that? I think it's going to happen. And then watch them slip Andorian right at the end.

[01:55:32] Well, Rings of Power and Wheel of Time will never be next to each other. Not again, no. Right, because they're Amazon. Same property. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, and then watch Disney try and slip Andorian right at the end of the year for us. God, that would be-

[01:55:46] Andor, I'm predicting 2025. I think so. I think it's going to be- I don't think it's coming 2024. I don't want them to rush it. I don't want them to rush it. I don't want them to rush it. I don't want them to rush it.

[01:55:54] I don't want them to rush it. I don't want them to rush it. I would rather wait another year and have them do it right rather than try to rush it out. Okay, cool. Well, number seven on the community rankings with a strong-

[01:56:10] Oh, you know, what did I do? Did we- I didn't even read. I got so nerdy on the data analysis that I actually didn't read the number seven for the community. It was Mrs. Davis. You did read it. I'm pretty sure. Did I? I thought you did.

[01:56:24] But if you didn't, then you did now. Because it was both at the points of- It has 60 points, the same as Yellow Jackets, but it had a different distribution. And so we didn't actually talk about Mrs. Davis at all. Is it higher on your list?

[01:56:38] It is higher on my list. I will say that. Okay, got it. I will say that. Let's save it. Got it. Yeah, yeah. Let's save it until we get there. But it was the number seven for the community ranking. It's not on my list.

[01:56:50] Wait, was it or was it number eight? 10, nine, eight. My bad, eight. I'm getting lost with the numbers here. That's all right. So- Just don't want to be out of order. We're reading the wrong numbers as we go forward. We got to keep it straight.

[01:57:05] Okay, so now what is your number seven? Well, what's the community's number seven? The number seven of the community is Ted Lasso by a strong step up from Mrs. Davis. So he came in at 90 points. For number seven. I didn't place Ted Lasso. Did you? I did not.

[01:57:30] It's down at number 13 for me. Okay, so maybe we should talk about it here. Yeah, why not? Did you lasso the Ted? I loved this season of television. It was so charming. It was so funny. I loved the way that they resolved everything.

[01:57:53] And yet there was some real sloppy production, some stuff that for me was just really bad. Sort of these CGI things on the football pitch or there was even in the first episode, when they're at the airport, the lighting was all wrong. They backlit. It was crazy.

[01:58:12] And then I felt like we dithered on some sub storylines, which were satisfying in and of themselves, yet were not significant to the overall story. We spent a lot of time with Keely and Jack when we really should have been spending a

[01:58:32] lot more time with Nate and Jade was his girlfriend and Rupert and working through that. Because when they resolve the Nate storyline, it was kind of like, oh, here we are and everything's great as opposed to how did Nate and Rupert go through the...

[01:58:50] And Jade because she was the third leg in that stool. How did all of that play out? And we just barely touched on that. And relative to the Jack Keely story, which was charming and interesting and I liked it,

[01:59:07] it just shouldn't have had as much screen time as Nate and Rupert and Jade did. It was a bizarre decision to have Nate quit the team off air. Right? That was a bizarre decision.

[01:59:19] I understand that that's something that people choose to do sometimes to make it more impactful. Right. I cannot imagine why they thought it would in this case, because seeing Nate struggle through quitting but do it anyway would have been a really powerful moment. I agree.

[01:59:34] And a really great moment for people to see someone standing up to a bully who's turning them into a bully. That would have been a really great thing to have Nate face himself in that, he's becoming

[01:59:47] this real Darth Vader right at the hand of the emperor kind of thing. And then look... And then say with Jade and then find she's activating and reminding him of his humanity. And we were robbed of that nexus point, that crucible where he had to actually come through

[02:00:07] and choose a side. Right. And I just think that that was a really bad decision in the season. Overall, I really loved the season. I think that Ted is of course a delightful character. Coach Beard was nicely developed. Rebecca's journey was good.

[02:00:23] There were some weird choices with Rebecca, like the random Dutchman. And the flying Dutchman. And like you said, Keeley and Jack, it really just unnecessary. It felt like they broke up Keeley and Roy to no end. It just felt like it was just, oh, and they broke up.

[02:00:40] And it just felt really nonsensical and meaningless. And Roy ended up acting really out of character, all of a sudden, kind of misogynistic where he had not been in the past. And it just felt like it came out of nowhere.

[02:00:55] A few character decisions that I think were not in line with who the characters had been previously in order to... It felt like the characters were following the story rather than the other way around. Right, right. And I think that that was my issue with the season.

[02:01:09] It was still a great season. It ended the show in a really satisfying way. Good. I just didn't want to place it because I did have those issues. Also, the episode lengths were all over the place and it was making pacing a mess. Right, right. Okay.

[02:01:25] Well, and I will probably still go back to watching it again at some point. It was... Yeah. There were some great feels in there. It's a great comfort show. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, cool. So what then is your number seven? My number seven is Loki. Whoa!

[02:01:50] Which is shocking to me. That's right. So listeners obviously can't see this, but we have our ranks in a Google spreadsheet and we've got the names blacked out. So I can't... John hasn't seen mine and I haven't seen John's.

[02:02:05] That's why I'm taking a minute to say my thing because I have to click the button to unblock it. Holy smokes! That's my number seven too. Is it? Yeah. Wow, what a day. What a day. We can just talk about it then.

[02:02:20] Yeah, and it looks like it is one, two, three, four, five. It is the community number... It ranks at number five for the community. Wow. So let's just talk about Loki all together here now. Yeah. What the heck happened to you? You were like, oh, you know, guardians.

[02:02:39] What did you see earlier on the year that you were not a big fan of? And then Secret Invasion came out and you're like, okay, that's it for me. Yep. And here you are placing Loki. So I saw Guardians, that was my first MCU thing of the year.

[02:02:55] And I didn't think it was horrible. I just thought it was kind of like, eh, you know, been there, done that. Yeah, it was just meh. Had a kind of just fan service kind of over it.

[02:03:03] And then Secret Invasion, I don't remember what it was, but I hopped on a podcast. Yeah, YouTube channel. Yeah, that's right. And I was like, yeah, all right, I'll keep watching this. And I got to episode three and went, no, thank you. I don't want this.

[02:03:17] Yeah, imagine us trying to podcast through that. It was really- I know. And I felt badly, honestly, because it just seemed bad. I actually listened to your wrap up, even though I didn't finish the series, and it felt cathartic for you guys. It felt good. Yeah.

[02:03:31] Because sometimes when we all suffer through a show together, it's nice to sort of wring our hands of it, just like be done with it. Right. But then Loki came around. I don't remember why I started watching it, but I think I was sick or something.

[02:03:48] And I just popped on season one, and I was like, huh, that's an interesting premise. And you liked season... Right. You had not seen season one. I had not seen season one. Right, okay, got it.

[02:03:57] So I started it right before season two, and I binged it in a day because it was that good. Oh my Lord. In season two, I started, I got distracted by... I think we were doing triple coverage, and then I was just a little burnt out,

[02:04:11] and I was just like, I just want to watch my comfort shows. But I started season two. I got through episode three, and I was like, I need a break. Then I finished it, and I thought it finished incredibly. It was really, really great.

[02:04:26] It was such a journey for the character. Oh my God. Yeah. The visuals looked amazing. What did Marilyn say? The spaghetti-ing? Yeah, Alicia, I think it was... Is that something that you guys were saying on the pod? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. The spaghetti effect was so cool. Yeah.

[02:04:42] Yeah. I don't want to spoil the end, but the last shot is just so amazing. Beautiful, heartfelt, sublime. Absolutely. Yeah. And I was genuinely moved by this in a way that I didn't think superhero stuff could move me anymore.

[02:04:57] I think it's because it wasn't, here's a big bad guy who is bringing the end of the world, this is it, right? Do or die, we have to save the world. We've seen that over and over and over again. And this was something entirely different.

[02:05:16] And this was a journey of self-discovery, a journey of trying to resolve the past and what that means and who you are for yourself, but also who you are for your friends and your family.

[02:05:33] And to see a God, right? Loki is a God who has infinite, has all this power and ability to go through this very human journey, but then to place them, but then to bring it around back

[02:05:48] to being a God and doing something that only a God could do. Right. But he earned being a God. He did, totally. And that's what made it great, especially in season one, they made it very clear,

[02:06:03] these people are above what's happened before. They have infinity stones as paperweights. Right. That was such a great little- Amazing way to tell you the stakes of this world. Completely. And it was a show not tell, right? It was like, oh yeah.

[02:06:17] Right. So my question is, could you take those infinity stones back to the real world and use them anyway? Anyway, let's not go there. But, and especially, wait a minute, they have reactivated the powers by the end of season two in the time vortex, in the time TDA,

[02:06:35] can they use the infinity stones to solve the problem? Anyway, it's fine. It's fine. You're going to have to come on an MCU pod and talk to Jean-Luc about that. I got questions. But overall, I think that they really did the character arcs perfectly. And I'm

[02:06:48] really excited to see what they do next with that. I know that there's no more Loki coming, but I think they'll take that seed and hopefully grow it well. And of course, you've got the Jonathan Majerus issues where like, what are they going to do? Are

[02:07:02] they going to recast? Are they going to pivot to another character? I don't know the right answer because I don't know enough about what's going on in the MCU right now, but it does seem like that is the pivotal question for that franchise right now.

[02:07:15] And we're seeing a lot of movement in who's attached to what project, and we're getting a lot of signals from Disney about slowing down and this whole quantity over quantity thing.

[02:07:28] And I think Jean and Alicia and I recorded earlier today a preview. Well, it was a recap for season one of What If to get ready for the season two of What If. But I think we're hopeful that MCU is

[02:07:45] going to find a middle ground, just like Loki was able to sort of find this pathway through this. I think if they can deliver that kind of show that Loki was, that storytelling was incredible. And if

[02:08:01] they can let creatives and storytellers do what they're there to do, then I think we're going to end up with that kind of quality. And it would be better, I think in my mind, to have 10 show,

[02:08:16] what is it? RBIs over home runs, right? If you want to money ball it, right? If you want to go to that route. I'd rather see a whole bunch of mid-level shows that were really good and told

[02:08:24] really good stories rather than one giant big blockbuster, right? I think that's the thing. And if they can continue to deliver stuff like Loki, then man, that would be awesome. Right. And it always felt like the big set pieces were in service of the story and not

[02:08:42] the other way around. Whereas I think that's the issue with Marvel lately is that it always feels like we're building to this big epic fight. But that's not what you should be doing. The big epic fight should be the result of the conflict that you're creating between characters.

[02:08:55] And this is something even beyond the MCU, I'm keeping a close eye on because, and I'm sorry, this is probably the last time I bring up Doctor Who tonight, but maybe not. No, don't restrict yourself like that. Be out and proud.

[02:09:10] So we're looking at now Doctor Who has Disney money, right? That's a thing that people are concerned about is are they going to Marvelify it? Because they've already rebranded the franchise to the Whoniverse. They've already done that. In the last special, they had basically

[02:09:26] Avengers Tower with what is basically SHIELD, which is a unit in the Doctor Who universe. And there's other decisions that I don't want to spoil because they are very spoilery for the last special, but there's decisions that they've made that make me think

[02:09:42] they are very much looking to do a series of spinoffs from this show. Interesting. Okay, so they're going to go the IP route, right? Yeah. Well, they had spinoffs before. They had them in the early 2000s. They had Torchwood.

[02:09:54] They had the Sarah Jane Adventures with a robot dog and they were decently received. And it's the same showrunner now as it was back then. So maybe he'll be careful about what he

[02:10:07] does, but we were talking about this on the Doctor Who pod, like you don't build a set that intricate if you're not going to use it again. Good point. Good point. So it's something I'm keeping an eye on. Can you manage these big franchises and not overdo it?

[02:10:24] Right. And it's a danger for all of them. Star Wars, we can see is struggling. MCU has been struggling. DC, the DCU is definitely in a confused space. It really does take a lot to pull a big integrated IP universe together and keep it together.

[02:10:42] Yeah. All right. Number six. Number six on the community's ranking was Wheel of Time. Solid showing for a show that had a really rocky season one. It did have a rocky season one. It had a much better season two.

[02:11:04] But I will tell you this now, David, I did not place it. I left it off my list. I left it off my list. We're so in trouble with Alicia. When she said Wheel of Time, I'm not going to say her ranking, but it's on her rankings.

[02:11:18] You're right. You could guess, right? Oh no. Oh boy. She's not going to be happy with us. It landed at 15 for me. Okay. Yeah. Number 15. Yeah. I enjoyed it. I had a good time. It just didn't blow me away.

[02:11:36] There was some... The production was fine. I enjoyed learning more about the world. I'm looking forward to season three for sure. But for me, it didn't swing as hard as some other shows did. Yeah.

[02:11:56] I think that's fair. I think that there were good episodes and there were bad episodes. I really struggled with pacing. I don't even want to say there were bad episodes. There were less good episodes. The show still has some way to go to get to a polished state,

[02:12:16] because sometimes it does feel like I'm watching a little bit of a cosplay-y thing. And I don't want that. Listen, this is one of my favorite universes ever. Full stop. I have read these books multiple times. I love this world. And it's not that I necessarily need

[02:12:35] it to be closer to the book, but I need them to do a better job of capturing what makes the book special. And I don't know if they always do that. Sometimes they make really confusing cuts,

[02:12:44] like Ing-Tar, I'll name drop in the finale. Yeah, we talked about that. Just felt like a missed opportunity. All the big character moments seem to happen. And I'm more concerned with the big character moments happening than I am with a flaming dragon above a tower.

[02:12:58] And so I would like to... And again, I'll do a little bit of lip service to my big complaint of stop making it the Rosamund Pike show. But overall, I think that she could play a less

[02:13:11] prominent role. Because I would like to see The Immense Field Five really shine, because those are the characters this story's about. Those are the characters that should be driving the wheel forward, not their Gandalf. Right, right. Right, right. That Gandalf, yeah, very good point.

[02:13:28] Gandalf doesn't drive the Lord of the Rings, it's the hobbits who do it, right? Yeah, that's a very good point. And he's there to help and guide and check and provide inspiration and solace at key times, but it's not Gandalf's story, you're right.

[02:13:43] Right. And sometimes he just fucks off for a while because that's okay. That's right. Because he's the guide, he's not the hero. Right. Yeah, and then we got a little bit... So yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, I feel,

[02:13:54] yeah, there was uneven storylines. There were some stuff that was really intriguing, but then other times I was watching average fantasy, an average fantasy show. And I will say, I did find myself needing to explain things more than I should for any show.

[02:14:14] It was a heavy lift for me for being not at all in the world. So I can't imagine how you were having to deal with all of that. Well, I just mean, I know what's going on because I've

[02:14:24] read it multiple times and I don't know if they always did a great job onboarding. Right. I think that they sometimes struggle with that because there's a lot of proper nouns, there just are, and the magic systems get complicated. It's kind of a hard magic system

[02:14:41] not difficult, but there's rules, there's rules of what you can and can't do that are very important and intricate. And you have to be really careful about how you introduce those and how consistent

[02:14:51] you are because they've already toyed a little bit with possibly breaking some of those rules. And I don't know if they can keep doing that regularly and get away with it. Right. Interesting. Okay.

[02:15:05] But overall, listen, I want to end on a note of positivity. I liked the season. I really liked the season. It was good. It was not great yet. And I hope that season three is tighter than season two was. Right. We're hopeful for stronger and stronger seasons. Yep.

[02:15:22] And one more thing I just want to say is just that I think that they need to stop rushing it. It needs to stop being an eight episode season. They need a 10 episode season. Okay. Right. Let it breathe a little bit. Right. Yep.

[02:15:34] Yeah. Cool. Okay. So what is your number six? Oh, boy. I forgot already. Barry. Barry is number six. This was big influence from your industry score kind of thing. Oh, so it was my ranking system? Okay.

[02:15:54] It's still primarily vibes, but I did certainly consider industry score, especially as we get higher up the list because a lot of these shows I liked and I really enjoyed pretty similarly,

[02:16:06] but I wanted to go, what did this change for the way we watch TV? And I think Barry is an incredible achievement in, I don't even want to call it comedy. It's human storytelling, the human heart in conflict with itself. Right? That's what you like to say.

[02:16:23] Yes. I'm in your head, John. I'm in your head. Ranking systems, hearts in conflict. I know you're winning the fight. And it's just incredible to watch Bill Hader evolve as an actor, as a writer, as a director, telling the story of this morally reprehensible person

[02:16:44] in such a Walter White way where at first you're like, is he just brainwashed? No, he's actually really selfish by the end. Right? I think that's where you land. And it leaves you on such a bleak note, but that is so realistic

[02:17:00] that I just loved it. I just love the ending. It was one of the most depressing shows I've ever watched. And yet it is a joy too because there's so many laughs along the way.

[02:17:13] I'm really interested. If this is your number six, I'm really interested to see what else has been placed up. I can guess a couple of things, but I'm really shocked that it's this low on

[02:17:23] your list. I thought it was much higher. I thought about this hard. This was higher originally. And I think I lowered it. Okay. It's higher for me, but I'm going to say,

[02:17:35] I'm not going to reveal it yet. That's fine. That's fine. Why don't you do your number six? Okay. And just for the record, Barry is 11, 12, 13, 14, number 14 on the community list.

[02:17:46] So I can see why a lot of people would miss this show or have not picked up on it. So I understand that. It was also directly after succession at Ray Knight. Which is a tough time slot to fall.

[02:17:56] It was weird. It was a very weird decision. Scheduling this year was weird. As much great television as we had, the scheduling was really cockamamie at times. All right. My number six. And I'm taking a risk on this one as well. Fargo season.

[02:18:20] I think that everything that I'm seeing going in at this stage at episode five at the time of recording is, I think this is the greatest Fargo season that has come yet. I think that Noah Hawley

[02:18:38] has transcended to some new demigod plane of being able to synthesize the work that he's done before to take the cultural, the zeitgeist and the prevailing winds and countercurrents and all of these things and roll it into the show that simultaneously confronts you, but

[02:19:07] comforts you and entertains you. Chills you. I've never felt comforted by Fargo. There's never one time where I feel safe watching that show. It's true. And when I look at Juno Temple's character this season, I'm somehow comforted.

[02:19:24] Really? Because the minute she drops her accent, I go, oh my God, I need a bulletproof vest on me. Right. But yet there's something I'm just so rooting for. And then what he's doing with this season, and if you're interested in a little bit deeper

[02:19:39] examination of the different character archetypes that are present in the Fargo pantheon, go catch our coverage of episodes one through four. He's taking these characters that are pretty well known from the Fargo verse and he's inverting them and then causing us to

[02:19:59] root for bad guys or the people that we should be dead set against. We're suddenly seeing their humanity and are rooting for them. I don't know if you caught up to episode five yet,

[02:20:09] but episode five just blew me away with how he was able to invert and subvert these character types. And then just in what he's doing to narration in the way that we do storytelling, it is really exceptional. And I'm taking a chance here that my

[02:20:31] number six is actually going to pay off, but I think he's got this. There's such confident filmmaking and such clear vision in what he's doing that I think this is going to be the

[02:20:43] best Fargo season that there ever will have been. I mean, who knows what's in the future. We will check in with you in January. Absolutely. And we're going to do another recap once we get around to it. Yep. So you hadn't seen episode five yet?

[02:20:56] I have seen it. Oh, you have. I have seen it. It was very good. It was really impressive. And I guess the reason I'm not willing to give it the benefit of the doubt yet is that I don't know this guy as well. Sure. Yeah. Yeah.

[02:21:09] And so I don't know if I can trust him yet. He's still on thin ice with me. Okay. And we've only gone on one date. We're in Fargo territory here. You could fall. Yeah, that ice is very thin.

[02:21:20] So I figure it's more reasonable for you to place it because- Big risk. You know the guy pretty well at this point. And between him and Sam Esmail are two directors that I'm going to be

[02:21:33] watching very closely and listening to very closely in the coming decade or so. I think they're really both pushing the bounds of playing with the medium and what we can do with this kind of storytelling. So yeah, it's a big swing, but I'm willing to take it.

[02:21:50] Yeah, that's cool. That's cool. I'm liking it. I like the risk taking here. Cool. Okay. So we are at our number fives and the community number five was Loki. So we've already talked about that, but it's scored strong. It's a clear break.

[02:22:06] It's the first show that scores in the triple digits and it placed across the board and it got a lot of number threes. A lot of people put it- Interesting. In their number three slots. I think I know who put it in their number one slot,

[02:22:22] but yeah, it's got a good spread all across. It's got everything. It places in every ranking except for number nine. So- Interesting. Yeah. All right. Cool. Okay. So what is your number five? I don't remember. I'm undoing it now. The Last of Us. What? That low? That low.

[02:22:45] God, what is in your top three? I put a lot of thought into that. What is in your top three? I put a lot of thought into that. That is... John, oh my Lord. Okay. All right. Talk me through it. The Last of Us is different

[02:23:02] ranking in the community thing, so we're going to save it. So you're going to have to make your case for number five because I've got a higher two. I loved the show. I loved the video game. I covered the video game with Brandon in addition

[02:23:17] to covering the show with you. We did two feedback episodes on the back half of it. God, do you remember that? We had so much feedback. Don't think I haven't considered this. I took points off

[02:23:30] for failing to make the threat of the zombies feel real because they took out so many violent bits that it just made it feel like this was just a normal world and people were being assholes about it.

[02:23:46] We could have used at least one more clicker scene, right? Somewhere out when they're out in the woods or something. Yeah. And the other thing I think is that the pacing was a little bit all over the place too.

[02:23:58] I think that the finale was way too short and we didn't get to sit with the emotions of those decisions long enough. Those were my big gripes with it. But Pedro Pascal and- Ella Ramsey.

[02:24:14] Ella Ramsey, that's her name. I couldn't remember for a second. Did an incredible job capturing the characters and I couldn't have asked for better casting. I'm really looking forward to season two. It was an amazing experience and I gave it more points because

[02:24:33] of its industry factor of being the first good video game adaptation ever, in my opinion. Right. Right. However, I did take points off for certain things. That's incredible. I'm- So just wait. Okay. Yeah, I'm really intrigued now. I'm really intrigued now. Okay. So my number five is Foundation.

[02:25:00] Okay. Good show. Yep. Foundation ranks higher in the community and you haven't said anything about it yet. So I'm curious as to where it places. I'm going to observe whether I left it off or whether I placed it higher. Wow. Wow.

[02:25:15] I don't think I'm going to say anything that I left off at this point. Okay. We're getting close here. Anything could happen. So for me, it fit in the S tier. So I have S tier, which is exceptional,

[02:25:26] A tier, which is very good. And then I have B tier, which is entertaining, and then C tier, which is trash. And then I've got some categories for stopped or didn't watch, or it's just sort of a casual fun watch. It's not something serious.

[02:25:44] And so this is the first, Fargo was actually at number six was the first exceptional. So if it's in an exceptional category, it's automatically going to be in the top 10 probably. Yep. Yep.

[02:25:55] Actually, no, I lie. My exceptionals started at number eight with the gold and then Loki is exceptional. Fargo is exceptional in television. But this was a 9.5 and it scored an entertainment value of five for me as great. I really enjoyed the season. The visuals were incredible. The scope,

[02:26:17] the breadth, the way that he's rolling the story, the Clionic dynasty. We talked about a lot of this on the podcast, so I don't need to go over too much. Lee Pace. I mean, Lee Pace is a whole point here. He made it of himself.

[02:26:30] As is Hober Mallow, I think. Yeah. But then there was just some stuff that just fell off. It didn't quite play through. Some of the action scenes didn't hold solid for me. I know you were not super happy with the ending.

[02:26:42] Yeah. Yeah. And the ending really knocked me back a little bit, but I couldn't not place this in the top 10. It's just a big show with big ideas. It's gorgeous and it has legs. I just think it's

[02:27:01] going to be something that is going to be in the long run, just a really excellent entry in the annals of sci-fi television. Yeah. It was an incredible season. Give us the number three

[02:27:18] quick or the number four, sorry. Give us the number four community really quick because then I'll reveal my number four. Two, three, four. The Bear. The Bear. Great show. Let's wait to talk about it.

[02:27:28] Yeah. I have a feeling. I think I know. Yes, we're going to wait to talk about The Bear. Yeah. My number four was Foundation. That's why I said let's just move on. Oh, okay. Oh, good. All right. All right. All right. So you're right there. You're right there.

[02:27:42] I was right next to you. Yeah. Okay. I was at number four. I loved the ending, contrary to public opinion, I think. I was enamored with this season. This was a show that I went in

[02:27:54] thinking this could be a huge mistake that we cover this. Right. Yeah. Yeah. You had some trepidation. I honestly considered saying we shouldn't cover this because season one did not hit me very well when I first tried watching the first few episodes. But then I went back,

[02:28:13] I did enjoy the rest of season one when I finished it. And then season two, every episode was great. Yeah. Watching Demerzel finally become a fully formed character was amazing. Incredible. The addition of Hober Mallow actually made it so much more enjoyable with the consumer.

[02:28:31] I know that David Goyer said in our interview, maybe this is part of why I ranked it so high is that I got to talk to David Goyer and I feel like I understand it better. But David Goyer even

[02:28:40] said it was an intentional change to make it funnier because there needs to be levity in this heavy of a story. Right. And I thought that they struck that balance perfectly. Even scenes like Lee Pace stabbing somebody with his toe accidentally, stabbing his bride with his

[02:28:56] toe when he's trying to make love to her. Right. It was so funny. The naked fight, the naked fight is just, there's so many great moments in here. In addition to examining the

[02:29:09] human condition in such a way that I've never seen before. You're reminding me of so much that was good in this season. Yeah. The Demerzel stuff was absolutely incredible. Yeah. That scene with

[02:29:22] her. What is a person? Yeah. That question is so interesting and that's in this so deeply. Yeah. Yeah. So for me, foundation is a 9.5 and so everything going up here from four on up,

[02:29:36] right? That's how hard this season was to rank. I don't, for me, I don't know how, yeah. Like you said, you were struggling with it too. It was tough. It was tough. What was your number four

[02:29:45] though? The Last of Us. Okay. Now I was shocked that for you that it was so low at five because I thought for you, this would certainly be in a much bigger position. I'm not that easy.

[02:29:58] So this was a 10 for me and so it maxed out on the human scale of shows. It was exceptional. It scored a 10 on industry and it was, it scored a five in terms of my entertainment value. I

[02:30:12] absolutely thoroughly enjoyed watching that episode. Not a bad episode amongst them. Like you said, I think I agree with your points. We just needed a little bit more clickers and the end was compressed. I think I'm in full agreement with your assessment. So yeah.

[02:30:28] Should we reveal when? Well, no, we're going to keep it. We'll just keep rolling on up the ladder here. So the community had the bear at number four and so the community number three

[02:30:41] is Silo. Wow, that's really high. Really high. It ties with the bear at 152 points and the bear had 151 points. Good for Silo. Good for Hugh Howey. Yeah. The bear had five ranks in number one

[02:30:59] and Silo, interestingly enough, Silo is more spread out across the board. It has much more distribution, whereas the bear has a much more concentration. So it sounds like if you watched the bear, you loved it, but more people watched Silo. Exactly. Yep. I would say that. Good job,

[02:31:19] Alicia for bringing Silo to the community. For sure. Because it was not at all on my radar. I knew nothing about it. Okay. So for you, number three, what you got? This is- The bear. What? Number three?

[02:31:38] Number three. What the... John, I thought this was going to be your number one. Well, you were wrong. I was way wrong. Oh, Lord. You really did struggle. I'm going to anger this whole community tonight. You didn't put Bluey or something.

[02:31:54] I didn't put Bluey. I didn't put Bluey. Brandon put Bluey as his number one. I saw that. I saw where everybody put Bluey. He defends it well when I had a conversation with,

[02:32:06] I recorded his interview today and he defends it well. All right. No, it's not something silly for my top two, so don't worry. But yeah, I loved the bear. I thought that season two was much

[02:32:20] better than season one. The Christmas episode alone was enough to get it at number one. I think this was my number one at one point and I changed it. Wow. I think Foundation was my number two at one point.

[02:32:33] Yeah, that's what I was thinking. This really changed quite a bit as I went through. But the last week it's been steady, except I did change a couple of things. I'm not even going to say today. But other than that, other than that, it has remained pretty steady.

[02:32:49] See, I would've- But I loved the bear. I would've put... Yeah, I have no idea now what your number ones and twos are. Wild card. Completely. I was thinking Bear Foundation, Last of Us,

[02:32:59] Barry were all going to be in your top fours for sure. And yet here they are, they're down in this- I feel like you don't even know me. I know, right? I'm just kidding.

[02:33:08] Good Lord. Okay. Well, do you have any more you want to say about the bear or... Just incredible, incredible acting all around. The tour that Sydney takes around Chicago, having food, amazing cinematography there. I took some points off. Here's where it didn't

[02:33:26] get to number one. I thought that the Clara plot line was boring. I thought that it... I think that they didn't do her character justice. It was good to have Carmi examine, I'm a workaholic, I don't do personal relationships well. That was good.

[02:33:42] I think that there were points where I was like, this is not a fully formed character and you deserve to give this woman better lines. And that was my biggest criticism though. Most of it was

[02:33:52] very good and most of the characters felt very fleshed out. Watching Richie's redemption arc was amazing. Oh, so good. Really, really great. I want to go back and watch that episode actually. I know. So good.

[02:34:05] Yeah. And seeing Marcus staging in Copenhagen, just seeing John Bernthal again being a crazy man, a wild man. Yeah, the forks. So good. So, so good. And what an all-star cast they got for the Christmas episode too. Yeah. Jamie Lee Curtis, she was incredible. Absolutely- John Mulaney even.

[02:34:28] Yes. And Bob Odenkirk. Yep. Yeah. Unbelievable. Sarah Paulson. You could just keep going and there's just a list of great characters there. Okay. How about you? All right. My number three, this is the first of the 11s. So this is a show that has, I think,

[02:34:49] changed television forever. I think there are so many true to life memes, not just like, oh, that's a funny joke. Ha ha, we can mean this. But things that actually mean something

[02:35:01] in our modern parlance have come from the show now. I did not watch the show. I dropped in for this season of television and I didn't miss a thing from the previous season. So for me, number three was Succession. Okay.

[02:35:20] It was an incredible, it was, I don't mean to, it literally was Shakespearean in some ways, in the ways that it was acted, the stage acting that was on display, the way that they filmed it,

[02:35:38] the emotional impact that these characters, you just are just like, God, these are awful people. They're playing with our society in these ways just to get one-ups on each other as siblings.

[02:35:55] The way that they ended this, the way they went out the way they wanted to go out, not only did they end the story the way that they wanted to, but they ended it by the actors going off script and they're literally following them around with a camera.

[02:36:14] And they're literally worried about the actor's safety because the guy's so in his role that they don't know that he's not actually going to do something rash. And you just felt every ounce and

[02:36:27] every bit of acting that went into the show, every bit of design and production. It was, they're awful people and it's an awful story about modern day capitalism. And it has changed the landscape of television forever, just like Game of Thrones did

[02:36:47] and a number of other shows. It goes among the greats, things like Pain Sponge, these are common phrases in business context now. It is truly extraordinary. And it was a monocultural event. The amount of people podcasting about this, the amount of people

[02:37:05] commentating about it. I know we should have podcasted about it. We should have. Yeah. Both of us judged this show before we watched it. Yeah, prejudged it. And now we're pre grieving it because we prejudged it.

[02:37:19] Yes. And I came in, I didn't go back and watch any other previous seasons. I just came in on it for the season. I was like, oh, what the hell? I'll side watch it. This is a big cultural event.

[02:37:29] I should know what's going on because I podcast about television now. So, Succession comes in at 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 on the community rank. That's crazy to me. Yeah. Because I thought it was amazing. Maybe because we didn't cover it. People weren't watching it.

[02:37:45] It's got one, two and three. It's got one rank and one, two and three, and then a couple at the bottom. So yeah, people did watch it. Of course this will be skewed because this is from our community. Right. And so things that we cover will do better.

[02:37:57] Sure. Right. Right. Yeah. So it's got to be in your top two here. It is my number two, David. Oh, very good. Very good. Do you want to guess my number one? Because I don't think you're going to guess it.

[02:38:11] I don't think I can. I'm looking. I can't. Oh, I think I have an idea now. I think I have an idea. All right. I think I have an idea. If it is, I'm going to be surprised. Okay.

[02:38:23] Because I'm going to really want to know. It was probably a very good show, but I don't understand why you would have put it as your number one. Okay. But I could be wrong. I could be wrong on my guess.

[02:38:32] Okay. I don't know what you're thinking. So maybe we should just move on with this. Succession was my number two because it was, I did actually go back and watch everything before I watched the last season. And I thought that that made it really impactful when you see

[02:38:45] all these siblings come together and betray each other and just completely screw each other over. I thought the ending was perfect. It could have gone on. I could have watched another three seasons

[02:38:57] of it, but they ended it on such a good note, on such a high note that I'm just so happy with that. And I want to reward that with a great ranking because I don't want shows to go on forever until they're bad.

[02:39:08] No. And that's a different kind of television. That's a different style of television. That's not this... Somewhere between a movie and I don't know, in television, we're in this new space.

[02:39:20] Whereas you could have what we do in the shadows and that can run for 11, 12 seasons. I know it's going to be great, but it is what it is. It's not a succession. It's entertainment. It's not, I don't know, transcendent somehow.

[02:39:33] The performances were incredible. The characters remain complex. And I was just thinking like, man, it would be a traditional show to put X sibling on top. I'm not even going to spoil what happened because I think everybody should watch it if you haven't. It would be a traditional

[02:39:52] thing to put X sibling on top or even Y sibling on top. But this was out of left field for the end, but it made complete fucking sense that this is the way... If everyone screws each other,

[02:40:07] then the vultures come out at the end. And it just really was an incredible series and season. And I loved every minute of it. I could not wait to watch the next episode. I couldn't stop watching. And that's why it placed so high.

[02:40:26] Well, my number two is basically a tie with succession and I'm giving it to this title because I think it is such a clear and visionary piece of work. And again, I think it's changed

[02:40:42] television, not in the way that succession changed the wider culture at large, but I think what it has proven to television makers, writers, cinematographers, Barry, I think broke so many expectations about what you could do with television. And I just have to give it to Bill

[02:41:11] Hayter and not only to Bill Hayter, but to all of the people because it wasn't just him. It wasn't an auteur's vision, right? It was a collaboration with his actors, the writers, the people producing

[02:41:23] it. They, I think, delivered on something that was unique and I don't know if we'll ever see the like again, but to be able to push something like this through the television apparatus, I think really deserves something exceptional, some exceptional acknowledgement.

[02:41:49] And so yeah, it's got an 11 and I thoroughly enjoyed the season. Yeah. Barry was an incredible season and an incredible accomplishment. And honestly, I feel badly that HBO put it after succession because I think they should have

[02:42:03] treated this as one of their prestige 9 PM on Sunday shows. It would have done better that way because it wasn't just a comedy. I mean, I think Curb Your Enthusiasm works great at 10. I don't think that Barry works great at 10. I think this was a 9 PM premiere show.

[02:42:18] Right. Yeah. I think it'll change the way television is produced in ways that we're not going to overtly see. I think it changed things underneath and that's why I had to put

[02:42:33] it up so high because for Bill Hader to be able to execute this vision and just to do the stuff that he did is ridiculous. Some of the scenes in this, him walking through the whatever Walmart or

[02:42:48] whatever with all the guns strapped to his back was such a condemnation, such a damning finger, but yet it was so hilarious and played perfectly into the role of this character. And I think

[02:43:01] by doing that kind of stuff, he's changed the boundaries of what other filmmakers are going to be able to accomplish. Yeah. Well, thanks Bill Hader. Yeah. So the community number two is Foundation. Okay. That's cool. Really, really strong showing at 194 points, really strong showings. Five people ranked it

[02:43:24] as their number two, five people ranked it as their number four. So yeah, really high up there in the community's estimation. No eights, nines or tens. It's all up at the top.

[02:43:35] I knew when I watched the Foundation season finale that it would be in my top five. I didn't know where, but I knew it would be in my top five. All right, John. Well, this is it. This is the

[02:43:44] big moment. Our number one. Can you do the 8-bit version of that? Can you do the Lorehounds version of that? I should have. I should have before this, but I did make a Christmas song.

[02:43:56] Yes, you did. Thank you for doing that for short notice. So, okay, John, sock it to me, baby. Well, I thought we have to do the community. Oh, we do, don't we? I keep doing this. I was waiting for you to reveal it. The Last of Us. Cool.

[02:44:12] With a commanding lead of 236 points, which the next Foundation scored 194. So, it got some scattering down low, but for the number one and number two positions, it ranked really high for a lot of people. So, it cleared the field. Nothing came close. Right.

[02:44:39] So, I guess that says something, this community and what people enjoy watching. I think that it crosses the video game thing. I think it crosses the strong narrative storytelling stuff that we want in science fiction and fantasy. Exactly. Perfect, as we said, exceptional acting and

[02:45:01] writing. So, yeah, I think it strongly deserves to be a number one for sure. I cannot argue with it at all, even though it's lower on mine. Right. Exactly. I'm totally fine with people putting it number one,

[02:45:12] and I hope that people realize that I'm largely positive on the show. And I think that that story is one of my favorite stories of all time. Right. I would have done a few things differently in the show. And I will say that the show really

[02:45:24] surprised and delighted me at times. I really enjoyed the way that they changed Bill and Frank. Yeah, it was lovely. That was a really great surprise. Exceptional, yeah. There were some great surprises they made. I think it was Henry. I can never remember which one is Henry.

[02:45:38] Henry, right. But it's the child. Yeah. Oh, my Lord. Gut-wrenching. They made him deaf, which I think was really smart. That was a really great way to make those scenes feel a little bit more intimate. Yep, for sure. So I really enjoyed that whole season.

[02:45:55] All right, John, can I guess? Yeah, you can guess. Mrs. Davis? You're right. You did it. Amazing. It had to place on your list. It just had to. And you hadn't brought it up before. That's incredible. That's really astonishing. I think I'm really interested in why

[02:46:16] Mrs. Davis bested all of these other competitors. I mean, the bear, for God's sake. I know. That is incredible. I said what I said, David. Yeah, yeah. So, Mrs. Davis, make your case. This show was flawless from beginning to end. Really?

[02:46:33] And it was the weirdest show I've seen in my entire life. In the most perfect way. It said so many things about humanity and what it means, like who do you put your faith in? What do you believe? Who can you trust?

[02:46:52] And the nature of what AI is, what AI could do for us, what's good about AI, what's bad about AI. How does AI compare to God? Just absolutely incredible. Absolutely incredible. I could

[02:47:06] not believe how good it was. Every episode surprised me. I could not tell you how the show was going to end at any point. And I couldn't tell you what the next episode would be about at

[02:47:15] any point. It wove together mythology and modernity and posterity in such incredible, amazing ways. And I've never seen a more unique story make it to the screen. Wow. And I would love to see more people take risks like this. High praise. Yeah.

[02:47:37] I just haven't seen such a risky show do so well. Incredible. And so, I want to see more risks in the industry. So, Industry Score played a lot into this. Interesting. Okay. All right. So, this was like an 11 for you. Yeah. This pushed the boundaries of television.

[02:47:50] Yeah. This pushed the boundaries. This changed what I think you can pull off in a TV show, especially an eight episode TV show that really... I think it was eight episodes, that really felt like it was contained in that. And I don't think they're doing a season two.

[02:48:04] That was a mini series. Yeah. Right. And it was so great. It was just so great. Wow. Very cool. It's my biggest miss. It's a lot of people's biggest miss. I think it's the communities, right?

[02:48:19] Yeah. So, on the data sheet when we released this, we also ranked that besides the platform, we have biggest miss, guilty pleasure, and most anticipated. And yeah, you're right. Mrs. Davis is the biggest miss above Black Mirror and The Bear. I guess a lot of people

[02:48:35] didn't watch The Bear. That's interesting. Okay. Very cool. I am going to probably regret having not watched it this year. You got to watch it, man. Yeah. There's still time. It's great. There's still time. There is still time. You can amend your list. I could. I can't.

[02:48:54] You're going to text me and be like, I hated that. That was stupid. You know, I watched the first episode. Did I finish the first episode? Don't judge it by the first episode. Okay. Because the first episode you're like, I mean, I liked it from the first episode,

[02:49:08] but I could absolutely see somebody being like, this is just random and doesn't feel like it goes together. Yeah. It's kind of weird. I don't get the world. Yeah. What's going on? Yeah. By a couple episodes in, you're like, oh, I'm really curious about how that happened.

[02:49:21] And it does, everything meaningful gets answered by the end. Okay. They leave you with big existential questions, but like, you'll know how things happen. There's not going to be anything that was like magic. Right. Well, I don't know if I'll say that, but you already know.

[02:49:34] Yeah. Yeah. It's still in the world. Right? Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. And you and Marilyn had a podcast about it. That was one of our earliest one shots, I believe. Yeah. I think that was the first one, actually. I think you're right.

[02:49:48] You had the idea and then we happened to be recording a Mrs. Davis one and you were like, Brandon, this. And I'm like, cool. That's great. And I know Marilyn really enjoyed it as well and it ranked high in hers. And so,

[02:49:59] yeah, it'll be in the 11sies podcast for her conversation. So what was your number one, David? My number one was The Bear. The Bear. Good choice. Yeah. It was exceptional. It was an 11. It's groundbreaking. It's changed the

[02:50:16] face of television forever. And you know I don't know if you've heard of it, but it's and you know I don't like to swear a lot on our podcast, even though we're rated explicitly. But I fucking enjoyed.

[02:50:28] Yeah. I enjoyed the fuck out of that show. The acting. I don't know that I need to say anything more. We've kind of said it all. Go watch it and go experience the human heart in conflict with itself. Watch people resolve decades old family conundrums and resolve

[02:50:47] something and still stumble and still struggle and still not know which way to go in the blinding snow of human relationships. The setups, the fact that it was so inexpensive to make,

[02:50:59] that it's taken a bunch of actors who we don't really know. Who knew Evan Moss Bacharach before this? I mean, yeah, he was an Andor, but the ensemble cast, just the visionary nature of it

[02:51:13] just is so endearing. And to me, there was no better show of the year. And it clearly, I mean, I can't go higher than an 11, but if I could and my own made up list, I would maybe. It was just incredible.

[02:51:28] Yeah. I don't blame you for putting it number one. Like I said, it was briefly my number one. Yeah. I figured, I thought it was going to be up there for you. I thought it was going to be like, well, it's in your top three.

[02:51:37] It was three. Yeah. I think that's pretty solid for a year of amazing TV. So, and it's interesting because for me, the human heart in conflict with itself, drama thing won number one. And for you, it was heady, existential, philosophical, historical weirdness.

[02:51:55] I don't know. I don't know. You haven't watched Mrs. Davis though. There's a lot of human heart. There's human hearts and other hearts in conflict with themselves. Okay. All right. So cool. So maybe it's the best of all things.

[02:52:06] It's incredible. Absolutely watch it if you haven't. And that's also part of why I made it my number one was I think it's criminally under watched. Right. Right. And I want people to know how strongly I feel that you should go watch it.

[02:52:19] Well, you get a podcast. So I know. That's right. Excellent. Well, I think these are really good lists. I really like the communities list. I think it was an exceptional look into taking in other people's points of view. I'm

[02:52:34] really glad that we, I didn't think we were going to be able to pull this off. And thanks to our community. They had the answers. Greg saw Davey Mac sub zero. Thank you all so very much for

[02:52:45] your inspiration in the hard work that you put into it. We'll definitely be thinking of you once we get some more benefits into the pipeline and making sure that you guys are thanked. And

[02:52:57] if you are on the discord and you know, those three folks give them a shout out and tell them thank you for all the hard work they did. Absolutely. Thank you. Thank you three. So let's talk really quick. Let's cool down. Let's cool our humors.

[02:53:14] The takes were just so hot. My hands are burned. I'm sweating over here. And my throat's going out and yeah. I know we're almost two hours and we haven't even done the second breakfast. No, we're going to do that tomorrow. I think.

[02:53:26] You suggested, Hey, let's record two different nights. And I said, no, I think what you're doing on one night. And you were like, no, let's record two different nights. And you were right. You're right. I'm admitting now that you were right.

[02:53:35] Okay. Not that I was trying to be right, but I was trying to save us both. I think from a, and you did. So thank you. Yeah. So John, what was your guilty pleasure? And I put air quotes around guilty pleasure. This,

[02:53:48] we were Adrian correctly pointed out that, you know, we shouldn't make ourselves guilty about our pleasures. Just enjoy them. But there, I don't know how else to call them. You know what it's a show that you wouldn't ever rank, but you enjoyed the heck out of

[02:54:05] and you just enjoyed watching it. And it just salved the wounds or, or made you feel a certain way. So what was your guilty pleasure show? Mine was one. I only watched a couple of weeks ago

[02:54:18] with, with my wife and it is called school spirits. It was a paramount plus show that somehow made its way onto Netflix eventually. And they just did their first season this year. It is about a

[02:54:33] teenager in high school who you might recognize from a Cobra Kai. If you ever watch it, she's, she's in that show too, but she wakes up as a ghost haunting her high school

[02:54:49] and she can only see the other ghosts in the high school. So it's like all these students in one teacher and she can't remember how she died. Whereas all the other ghosts can.

[02:55:02] So she's trying to figure out how she died, right. Murdered was she, so it's, it's a teenager comedy, you know, a school, a high school comedy, but it's, it's also like really heartfelt. There's

[02:55:13] a lot of, you know, cause she might've died, you know, she might've been murdered. Right. You know, has troubles with her mother and things like that. So it's really, it's really, really good. And there's like a central mystery that makes me want season two,

[02:55:24] like right now. And it was, it was shockingly good. I did not think it would be that good. And it was one of the pretty little liars, executive producers is attached to this.

[02:55:35] Apparently. Okay. So that's the acting is really great. The casting was really great. I it's it's fun. All right. Saved by the bell meets a ghost. Yeah, it's good. It's good. It's amazing. Okay. Very cool. Mine. I have two one was reboot, which was a one season wonder

[02:55:56] about a rebooted comedy special sort of old style live action, you know, live in front of a studio audience type of show had Jordan Peele in it. And Oh, who is the guy from Jackass? Johnny Knoxville

[02:56:10] is also in it. And it was my wife and I watched it. We loved it. It was hilarious. It was cutting. It was smart. The stuff raw or not Rob Reiner, but Oh, I'm blanking his name. Anyway, there's just

[02:56:24] some great old comedy standbys that were in there from television days. And they have this writer's room with sort of these millennial Gen Z's and these old, you know, pre baby boomers getting

[02:56:36] together. And some of the jokes were absolutely hilarious. So, and I'm really sad that that was not renewed because I thought it would, it would go for a good run. My other big guilty pleasure

[02:56:46] was a hundred foot wave, which is a HBO documentary or is it a max? I'm not sure. And it's no difference anymore. Yeah. Well, yeah, I really hope there is, but anyway, it's about the big wave surfers off the coast of Portugal in Nazarene.

[02:57:04] Oh, cool. And I've talked about this before. It's ridiculous. It's a ridiculous show. I would never, these people are going out there. They're trying to surf waves that are a hundred feet tall

[02:57:13] and putting their lives in jeopardy and putting the lives of people who rescue them in jeopardy. And it just, the mob, thousands of people lining the cliffs, drones flying everywhere, jet skis in the water everywhere. All these people trying to make their name in big wave surfing and

[02:57:32] for these silly contests, you know, to win these big trophies and whatnot. It's utterly ridiculous culture and it's gorgeous and breathtaking and death defying and really compelling in a lot of ways. So yeah, it's fun. Yeah. I think there's going to go another season, so we'll see. But

[02:57:55] yeah, it was definitely, it was visually, visually it's beautiful. It's a really well put together documentary. So like that holds together for me. And so with that, I can just follow these ridiculous people out in these ridiculous surf. Well, you know me, I watched my 90 day fiance. So

[02:58:11] I'm used to following ridiculous people around the world. That's right. Okay. So biggest miss, I smuggled in a whole bunch of things here. So I see that. And you have not, I apologize.

[02:58:21] They should have told me you can smuggle a few things in. That's okay. Honestly, there weren't a lot of things this year that I wanted to watch and I did. I did a pretty good job keeping up.

[02:58:31] Very good. Gen V was my biggest thing. I did not watch Gen V. I need to watch it because I think we're going to cover the boys season four. Boys is a solid cover for us. And it seems like it's

[02:58:43] going to be very important for the boys. Yeah. It seems like it. I'm going to have to catch up on it too. Yeah. I'll throw in Yellow Jackets since it plays so high. Maybe I'll throw that

[02:58:52] in. I didn't watch that and it seems like it was probably good. Cool. How about you? Yeah. Like I said, I've got three. Mrs. Davis, obviously that's a big one. Res Dogs. Season

[02:59:03] ended this year with season three and listening to some of the other podcasts that I listened to about television, universal praise for the show. Some people say that season two is a little bit

[02:59:14] stronger in season three, but overall as a show, I think it goes in that category with Atlanta, just truly exceptional television, heartwarming characters and all of that. And I did not watch

[02:59:26] it and I feel bad because I didn't. It's one of the shows I'm like, that was bad, David. You should have really been on top of this show. And then my last one, but I think we're going to start

[02:59:37] watching it. I convinced my wife to watch it the other night. We watched an episode after, well, it's two episodes in fact, back to back after we watched Slow Horses. So I'm hopefully

[02:59:49] we're going to be on a good run and catch up on that season. My other big one, which I've also started to watch, two episodes in Scavengers Reign. Oh my Lord, John, incredible animated show

[03:00:05] on Max. I have no idea how they got this green lit. I have no idea who, when, how they sold this, but it's that Mobius style art. And it's about this colony ship, I guess, that

[03:00:23] kind of has a misadventure and then a bunch of the escape pods land on this planet and this planet is truly bizarre and they're all over the place. And so we're following different stories, the stories

[03:00:37] of one, two, three different groups of survivors. And it is incredible. It's the world that they've imagined, this planet that they've imagined. It is bizarre and incredible. So I really, like I said,

[03:00:55] I watched a couple episodes and I can't believe that we didn't hear about this until now. I've never heard of this in my life. So- Google it right now if you can, if you're able to look. Yeah. It's, I really think- Scavengers Reign.

[03:01:11] We have not really covered any animated shows, but I would think that if it comes back for a season two, it's worthy of a one shot, if not episodic coverage. Oh, I remember you mentioning this actually. You did send me the animation, yeah.

[03:01:26] Yeah. Some of the folks on the Discord were popping off about this and saying it was really great. And so thanks to those folks, I forget who exactly, it might've been Rocky Zim or somebody

[03:01:36] else. There were a few folks chattering about it. And I really think that if it does come back for a season two, that it gets covered in some way. Yeah. It seems really cool.

[03:01:46] Yeah. So the most, let's see, the biggest miss for the community was Mrs. Davis, Black Mirror, and The Bear followed by Fall of House of Usher and Wheel of Time. The guilty pleasure shows,

[03:02:02] there's just too many all over the place. So there was no clear dominant show that people felt that was their guilty pleasure, which I think is to be expected. And then most anticipated. So

[03:02:15] what show are you most looking forward to? And it could happen anytime in the future, just something that's out there in the future that you're really looking forward to. And John, you are in Simpatico with the community. Oh, good. Severance. Severance. Yeah.

[03:02:32] Great show. Looking forward to season two. I was listening to Anthony and Steve's coverage of the finale of season one today, and it got me really hyped. So I'm really excited. They made this

[03:02:43] amazing joke on that podcast that had me cracking up so much. They said something like, maybe the waffle party was just a scheduling error. Like they sent the... It really is just a waffle party

[03:02:54] and they sent the dancers to the wrong room. Cracked me up. I love listening to them. Yeah. We're just waiting for season two coverage to be, or season two scheduling to be announced. And then we're going to be covering

[03:03:09] it with Steve and Anthony. So that's going to be interesting, a four person podcast. That'll be a new thing for us in our- It'll be cool though. Yeah. I'm looking forward to it.

[03:03:17] We did... We've done them before, but usually for one shots, right? Not for a full coverage show. Full weekly coverage. Yeah. Episode to episode. Hopefully Apple will continue to give us screeners for their shows. That would be really helpful.

[03:03:30] Yeah. They were pretty generous. So most anticipated in the community, so it's Severance followed by Andor and then House of the Dragon followed by The Last of Us and then Foundation

[03:03:42] and The Bear down from there. And there's a bunch of good shows even further on down that list. Mine are Andor. I thought long and hard about what other shows I might be anticipating. And

[03:03:55] there is one other one, but Andor I'm really excited for. And yeah, I think it's going to be 2025. I think you're right. Yeah. That's why I didn't include it. Not because I'm not looking forward to it, but I was like, it feels so far away.

[03:04:07] It does. Yeah. But I watched... I did a full season rewatch recently. It holds up. It holds up. I mean, I wasn't crying like a baby during the one-way-out scene, but I was still just amazed at the quality of television making that that show represents.

[03:04:26] Let me tell you my beef with Andy Serkis since you mentioned one-way-out. I got the Andy Serkis narrated Lord of the Rings Fellowship of the Ring on my Audible, and I fell asleep listening to it last night. And I woke up to him singing the Tom Bombadil songs

[03:04:45] horribly. Oh no. Horrible. Oh no. It sounded like a cat being tortured listening to these Tom Bombadil songs. Yeah. I don't see him as a singer. They really should have brought in a ringer for the singer. Yeah.

[03:04:59] I don't know why they let him do it, but they did and it was not good. So there's my beef with Andy Serkis. Ding, ding Andy Serkis. All right. So my other big most anticipated show is something that I know

[03:05:11] you haven't watched, Pachinko. We don't know when season two is going to be coming out, but- I didn't even know there was going to be a season two. Yeah. I thought it was like a mini series.

[03:05:22] I'm super, I can't wait. It scratches that itch for me that station 11 did, which is this real and the same for The Bear. I don't think it's as good as The Bear, but it's that kind of emotional, it hits in that emotional zone for me. Cool.

[03:05:36] And it's a really interesting story about a family, a Korean family in Japan post-war. They flashback through a lot of stuff and it's a really interesting storyline. So I'm looking forward to it, but we don't know yet. It's an Apple TV show. So- Cool.

[03:05:56] Yeah. Well, John, my throat is- Same here. I've been chugging water every time I mute. Right. And yeah, I don't know. These are really good lists, both on the community side and between the both of us and-

[03:06:15] Yeah. I mean, my list is best, but I respect the other two lists too. Very nice. So a reminder that we interviewed all of our co-hosts, Brandon, Jean, Alicia, Anthony, and Marilyn. And we have nice little chats with all of them. And we're going to wrap

[03:06:33] those all up at a podcast along with our friend, Anna Claus, who's somebody new. But she writes on a sub stack. She does takedowns of holiday rom-coms. And so she's going to join us to talk about the Lindsay Lohan vehicle that was supposed to reboot her career.

[03:06:55] Oh, it's so bad. It's so bad. But it's- Falling for Christmas. You know, of the three that I picked, it's the one that is the worst. It is really the worst. And it was a tie. It was a tie on the Patreon poll to choose which movie.

[03:07:07] It wasn't? Yeah. We had eight votes and it tied with the Princess Switch, I think it was the other one. Oh, interesting. So I had to do this little thing where I did one of these online wheel spinner picker things. And that's what we ended up with.

[03:07:22] Okay. All right. Lindsay Lohan. Yeah. Lindsay Lohan, definitely coming back to do something. I don't know why it was so bad. Anyway, but we have to talk about it because there's a lot of

[03:07:34] interesting stuff that's going on underneath it. Anyway, that's going to be all packaged up into a bonus episode that we're calling 11 Zs, because if you've had one breakfast, you got to have a second one, a second, second breakfast. And so look forward to that. But

[03:07:48] otherwise, John, it's been a pretty incredible year for us in terms of podcasting. It sure has. Over 100 podcasts. I think we'll probably have talked about it more on 11 Zs once we're doing our Lorehounds update, but it has been an incredible year.

[03:08:02] Well, that'll be in second breakfast, which will actually have occurred already by the time we record this because we're recording our top 10 first. I don't know what your thoughts are, man. You're just going all over the place.

[03:08:11] Yeah. We'll do the second breakfast stuff ahead of this and then put this at the... Yeah. I got a plan. I know what I'm talking about. Okay. All right. As long as somebody has a plan.

[03:08:18] Yes. But yeah, I don't know that we're going to be able to hit 150 podcasts next year. We'll see. We'll see. That was an incredible pace. It depends on what's on the top. Maybe we'll talk to our affiliates. We'll get to it.

[03:08:29] Yeah, for sure. But it's been an amazing journey, John. I'm really grateful for... This is some of the most fulfilling, fun, creative stuff that I've done in a long time. Same here. So I'm very appreciative.

[03:08:40] I'm very happy to be still making podcasts with you about a year and a half later, David. Amazing. Given that we didn't know each other prior to this, that we've actually been able to weather the storms that we've weathered and come out stronger for it. Yeah.

[03:08:57] So our hearts are not in conflict. Only with themselves. All right, John. Till the next time, have a great rest of your holidays. Good day.