Silmarillion Stories - E17 - The Noldor in Beleriand

[00:00:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to Silmarillion Stories, where the Lorehounds are your guides to Tolkien's world of Middle

[00:00:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Earth.

[00:00:24] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm John and this is our podcast for Of The Noldor in Beleriand, the 17th portion of

[00:00:30] [SPEAKER_00]: the Silmarillion.

[00:00:31] [SPEAKER_00]: In this episode we're going to be discussing the founding of Gondolin and the Wrath of

[00:00:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Fengal.

[00:00:36] [SPEAKER_00]: If you want to get in on the Tolkien Talks send an email to lotr at thelorehounds.com

[00:00:40] [SPEAKER_00]: or visit thelorehounds.com slash contact to leave a voicemail or contact for a

[00:00:45] [SPEAKER_00]: entry.

[00:00:46] [SPEAKER_00]: One more note, if you want to support us directly click the link tree in the show notes and follow

[00:00:50] [SPEAKER_00]: it to Supercaster Patreon where you can get early and ad free access to all of our

[00:00:53] [SPEAKER_00]: podcasts plus bonus content like second breakfast 11'sies and Shire's Eye Chats.

[00:00:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Today our returning guest is Arryn from the Lore of the Rings podcast.

[00:01:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome back Arryn to the Lorehounds podcast.

[00:01:07] [SPEAKER_00]: It's been a while, although I've been on your podcast but it's been a while

[00:01:10] [SPEAKER_00]: since you've been on an episode of Silmarillion Stories.

[00:01:12] [SPEAKER_00]: How are you doing?

[00:01:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, thank you John.

[00:01:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for having me back.

[00:01:16] [SPEAKER_01]: I feel honored that you reached back out to me and that we can talk Silmarillion and

[00:01:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Tolkien at always a fun journey.

[00:01:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Of course.

[00:01:23] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean the last time we did an episode together I don't even remember what episode it was.

[00:01:26] [SPEAKER_00]: They all blend together after a while but I remember we were in the Discord.

[00:01:30] [SPEAKER_00]: You joined our Discord shortly there.

[00:01:32] [SPEAKER_00]: I did.

[00:01:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody was like this is great.

[00:01:33] [SPEAKER_00]: This guy's great.

[00:01:34] [SPEAKER_00]: He knows all the Tolkien stuff so you know it's rare because I'm so deep in

[00:01:39] [SPEAKER_00]: the stuff it's rare that I have a conversation with someone and I'm like,

[00:01:44] [SPEAKER_00]: oh wow he knows more than me.

[00:01:45] [SPEAKER_00]: And you definitely make me feel like that so I appreciate you coming on to share your wisdom.

[00:01:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Well the feeling is certainly mutual because I talk with you and I'm like,

[00:01:53] [SPEAKER_01]: wow I wish I knew as much as John did.

[00:01:55] [SPEAKER_01]: I wish I could think about things that way so I guess we're in good company I suppose.

[00:02:00] [SPEAKER_00]: There you go.

[00:02:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Good conversation with good minds.

[00:02:03] [SPEAKER_00]: What more could you ask for?

[00:02:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:02:07] [SPEAKER_00]: You want to talk a little bit about your podcast before we jump in things?

[00:02:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Sure, absolutely.

[00:02:11] [SPEAKER_01]: So I am the producer and the single host of The Lore of the Rings podcast.

[00:02:17] [SPEAKER_01]: On that show we wander the world and works of J.R.R.

[00:02:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Tolkien and it's really geared more for folks who have seen the movies

[00:02:25] [SPEAKER_01]: and maybe have attempted to read the books but found them a little bit

[00:02:28] [SPEAKER_01]: difficult.

[00:02:29] [SPEAKER_01]: They're not the easiest read for most people.

[00:02:31] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I really just try to wander into the written word that Tolkien provided us

[00:02:37] [SPEAKER_01]: and try to draw it back to the movies.

[00:02:40] [SPEAKER_01]: So a big thing in the movies you don't really see a lot but there's the two

[00:02:45] [SPEAKER_01]: trees of Alenor they're every single one of the movies.

[00:02:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Well those are actually really big pieces of lore in Tolkien's world

[00:02:52] [SPEAKER_01]: and it enriches your viewing experience when you see that lore

[00:02:57] [SPEAKER_01]: and then you can point out to small details in the Peter Jackson films

[00:03:01] [SPEAKER_01]: where he's pulling from that wider lore that now when you go watch those

[00:03:05] [SPEAKER_01]: movies it's a much deeper experience.

[00:03:07] [SPEAKER_01]: So I really try to cater to that.

[00:03:08] [SPEAKER_01]: I really try to cater to connections and the family line connections

[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_01]: and origin stories and how that plays out in the future.

[00:03:16] [SPEAKER_01]: So the wandering, the connection that's kind of what we do over on

[00:03:19] [SPEAKER_01]: The Lore of the Rings podcast.

[00:03:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Very cool.

[00:03:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm loving your podcast.

[00:03:23] [SPEAKER_00]: They're bite-sized episodes.

[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_00]: They're about 15 to 30 minutes.

[00:03:27] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's very digestible and that's great because

[00:03:31] [SPEAKER_00]: that's a lot of what we try to do here.

[00:03:32] [SPEAKER_00]: That's a lot of, you know, let us be the experts and we will help

[00:03:37] [SPEAKER_00]: you have a working knowledge of it.

[00:03:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:03:41] [SPEAKER_01]: I kind of like to think of the role of Gandalf or Aragorn as

[00:03:43] [SPEAKER_01]: mighty wanderers, right?

[00:03:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Who had wandered all over the land and they sort of guide Frodo

[00:03:50] [SPEAKER_01]: and Sam and the others on this quest.

[00:03:51] [SPEAKER_01]: And I kind of like to feel like I can kind of step into

[00:03:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Aragorn's boots just a little bit and be like, let me guide

[00:03:57] [SPEAKER_01]: you through this land.

[00:03:58] [SPEAKER_00]: All right, let's take these stinky hobbits back on a journey

[00:04:05] [SPEAKER_00]: back all the way to the first age.

[00:04:07] [SPEAKER_00]: We're way before the time of The Lord of the Rings and we're

[00:04:10] [SPEAKER_00]: on a continent that doesn't even exist or a portion of a

[00:04:13] [SPEAKER_00]: continent that doesn't even exist at the time of The Lord

[00:04:16] [SPEAKER_00]: of the Rings back in Beleriand all the way looking at two

[00:04:22] [SPEAKER_00]: to three, two with a hint of a third kingdom within this

[00:04:26] [SPEAKER_00]: chapter.

[00:04:26] [SPEAKER_00]: And I want to add, I have not yet recorded my episode of

[00:04:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Beleriand and its realms.

[00:04:31] [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm recording these episodes in reverse and and boy, is

[00:04:35] [SPEAKER_00]: this a better chapter.

[00:04:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this chapter is there's some story here.

[00:04:41] [SPEAKER_01]: There's some dialogue here.

[00:04:42] [SPEAKER_01]: There's some intrigue and mystery.

[00:04:45] [SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of oaths.

[00:04:46] [SPEAKER_01]: I think there's at least three oaths that come into play

[00:04:50] [SPEAKER_01]: here.

[00:04:51] [SPEAKER_01]: And so this chapter is is a lot more fun than simply the

[00:04:55] [SPEAKER_01]: geography of Beleriand and its realm.

[00:04:58] [SPEAKER_01]: So this is a good chapter.

[00:05:01] [SPEAKER_00]: It's interesting that you bring up the oaths.

[00:05:02] [SPEAKER_00]: I noticed the oaths, but I didn't notice how many.

[00:05:05] [SPEAKER_00]: That's that's super interesting.

[00:05:07] [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm glad you brought that up.

[00:05:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Let's let's talk about that once we get to the Doriath

[00:05:11] [SPEAKER_00]: section.

[00:05:11] [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's where it comes up.

[00:05:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for sure.

[00:05:14] [SPEAKER_00]: So this chapter is pretty short honestly, and it's

[00:05:17] [SPEAKER_00]: pretty condensed into two sections.

[00:05:20] [SPEAKER_00]: The section about Gondolin, the section about Doriath.

[00:05:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Let's start in Gondolin.

[00:05:24] [SPEAKER_00]: So we've got Umo telling Turgon that it's time he's

[00:05:29] [SPEAKER_00]: allowed to settle Gondolin.

[00:05:31] [SPEAKER_00]: He's allowed to find this this hidden rock and and

[00:05:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Turgon has this, you know, workforce working in secret

[00:05:38] [SPEAKER_00]: trying to build up this kingdom.

[00:05:40] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's supposed to be, you know, the whole the

[00:05:43] [SPEAKER_00]: whole big the whole big deal of Elven culture from

[00:05:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Tyrion is back now.

[00:05:48] [SPEAKER_00]: It's back, baby.

[00:05:49] [SPEAKER_00]: It's it's in Middle Earth.

[00:05:50] [SPEAKER_00]: What what's your what's your read on Gondolin?

[00:05:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Are you are you a big Gondolin?

[00:05:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Stan?

[00:05:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I really love the story of Gondolin for a lot of

[00:05:59] [SPEAKER_01]: different reasons.

[00:06:00] [SPEAKER_01]: One is it's it's ties back to the origins of Elrond.

[00:06:04] [SPEAKER_01]: So you get you get some Elrond connections there.

[00:06:07] [SPEAKER_01]: You the fall of Gondolin was actually one of the

[00:06:10] [SPEAKER_01]: first stories that that Tolkien started to

[00:06:15] [SPEAKER_01]: articulate, shall we say, you know, even from the

[00:06:17] [SPEAKER_01]: trenches of of World War One, right?

[00:06:19] [SPEAKER_01]: 1917.

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_01]: There's there's copies of this or sketches

[00:06:23] [SPEAKER_01]: and drafts of this story that go all the way back to

[00:06:25] [SPEAKER_01]: then.

[00:06:25] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's interesting to see the the founding of

[00:06:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Gondolin, which really this chapter is is really

[00:06:31] [SPEAKER_01]: dealing with.

[00:06:32] [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, Gondolin, I'm a big fan of Gondolin.

[00:06:35] [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's a really cool interesting place.

[00:06:37] [SPEAKER_01]: If I were to go to the first first stage of

[00:06:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Middle Earth, Gondolin would be on my list of

[00:06:41] [SPEAKER_01]: places to visit.

[00:06:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, definitely.

[00:06:43] [SPEAKER_00]: You know they've got a million craft breweries.

[00:06:45] [SPEAKER_00]: They've got all of the leisure activities

[00:06:48] [SPEAKER_00]: that you want from an Elven kingdom.

[00:06:50] [SPEAKER_00]: They've got it in Gondolin.

[00:06:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was as close to Paradise as they could

[00:06:55] [SPEAKER_01]: get.

[00:06:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:06:55] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they left their city Tyrion on the

[00:06:57] [SPEAKER_01]: on the hill of Tuna over there in Valinorway

[00:07:00] [SPEAKER_01]: in the West.

[00:07:01] [SPEAKER_01]: And that was that was really Tergon's like

[00:07:03] [SPEAKER_01]: inspiration was how do we get as close to

[00:07:05] [SPEAKER_01]: that paradiseical city as we had?

[00:07:08] [SPEAKER_01]: And they achieve that.

[00:07:09] [SPEAKER_01]: They achieve that for what they could do in

[00:07:11] [SPEAKER_01]: in Middle Earth.

[00:07:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:07:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Craft breweries, art galleries, whatever

[00:07:16] [SPEAKER_01]: your whatever your choice of leisure.

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure they had it in Gondolin.

[00:07:20] [SPEAKER_00]: That's awesome.

[00:07:21] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, if you bring up a good point,

[00:07:23] [SPEAKER_00]: though it's close to Tyrion, but Omo makes

[00:07:26] [SPEAKER_00]: a really strong point to Tergon.

[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Don't forget, you know, I'll allow you to

[00:07:33] [SPEAKER_00]: outlast all the other kingdoms of the

[00:07:35] [SPEAKER_00]: elves in Middle Earth.

[00:07:37] [SPEAKER_00]: But your real place is in the West and I

[00:07:40] [SPEAKER_00]: can't change that.

[00:07:41] [SPEAKER_00]: I can't get you out from under Mandos's

[00:07:44] [SPEAKER_00]: doom.

[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_00]: I can't I can't make this a permanent home,

[00:07:47] [SPEAKER_00]: but enjoy it while you have it.

[00:07:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And perhaps that's a lesson for us all,

[00:07:50] [SPEAKER_00]: right?

[00:07:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:07:52] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's a really interesting prophecy

[00:07:55] [SPEAKER_01]: there that Omo provides, right?

[00:07:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Which is this place is going to outlast

[00:07:59] [SPEAKER_01]: all of the other strongholds.

[00:08:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Right, which implies that they will

[00:08:02] [SPEAKER_00]: all fall.

[00:08:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, that they all lost.

[00:08:05] [SPEAKER_01]: None of them will last.

[00:08:07] [SPEAKER_01]: And and even when the messenger comes

[00:08:10] [SPEAKER_01]: and maybe we're getting a little ahead

[00:08:11] [SPEAKER_01]: of ourselves, but even when the

[00:08:13] [SPEAKER_01]: messenger comes to warn them that

[00:08:15] [SPEAKER_01]: it's time for them to leave Gondolin

[00:08:17] [SPEAKER_01]: at that point, Tergon has forgotten

[00:08:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Olmo's warning here of he loves his

[00:08:21] [SPEAKER_01]: city, right?

[00:08:22] [SPEAKER_01]: And he thinks it's safe and they don't

[00:08:24] [SPEAKER_01]: want to leave.

[00:08:26] [SPEAKER_01]: And and Tergon really forgets this

[00:08:28] [SPEAKER_01]: blessing from Omo.

[00:08:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And that does lead to the downfall of

[00:08:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Gondolin.

[00:08:32] [SPEAKER_00]: It's funny because when we first

[00:08:33] [SPEAKER_00]: started the Silmarillion reading, I

[00:08:35] [SPEAKER_00]: tried to implement a spoiler policy

[00:08:37] [SPEAKER_00]: of don't spoil a for spoil future

[00:08:39] [SPEAKER_00]: portions of the Silmarillion.

[00:08:40] [SPEAKER_00]: And as I was going through it, I

[00:08:42] [SPEAKER_00]: was like, well, Tolkien spoils

[00:08:43] [SPEAKER_00]: himself, so I don't care anymore.

[00:08:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, we're just going to go with

[00:08:45] [SPEAKER_00]: it. We're going to talk about all

[00:08:46] [SPEAKER_00]: the connections.

[00:08:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. And I don't remember all of the

[00:08:49] [SPEAKER_01]: connections of Gondolin.

[00:08:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Gondolin is actually mentioned in The

[00:08:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings books

[00:08:53] [SPEAKER_01]: many times.

[00:08:54] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think in at least half of those

[00:08:56] [SPEAKER_01]: references, it's referenced in

[00:08:58] [SPEAKER_01]: connection with Nargothrond and

[00:09:00] [SPEAKER_01]: also with the fall of both Nargothrond

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_01]: and Gondolin.

[00:09:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Right? So there's this connection.

[00:09:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Nargothrond is the place that

[00:09:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Finrod will found Olmo inspired

[00:09:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Finrod to go create Nargothrond

[00:09:11] [SPEAKER_01]: and then Olmo inspired Tergon to

[00:09:13] [SPEAKER_01]: create Gondolin.

[00:09:14] [SPEAKER_01]: But and so you can't talk about

[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Gondolin without its

[00:09:18] [SPEAKER_01]: fall because that's that's why it was

[00:09:20] [SPEAKER_01]: so important was because it became the

[00:09:22] [SPEAKER_01]: last stronghold and that and it fell.

[00:09:24] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's hard not to have that spoiler,

[00:09:26] [SPEAKER_01]: but but that's yeah.

[00:09:28] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, nobody spoils Tolkien like

[00:09:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Tolkien. That's my motto and

[00:09:31] [SPEAKER_00]: especially in his extended writings.

[00:09:33] [SPEAKER_00]: But you know,

[00:09:36] [SPEAKER_00]: both of them, I love that they get

[00:09:38] [SPEAKER_00]: twin dreams and they both and they

[00:09:39] [SPEAKER_00]: both wake up after one wild night

[00:09:41] [SPEAKER_00]: out and they're like, I have

[00:09:42] [SPEAKER_00]: something to do when they just run

[00:09:43] [SPEAKER_00]: away from each other.

[00:09:44] [SPEAKER_00]: But that's that's super cool.

[00:09:46] [SPEAKER_00]: And and Boyd is Tolkien love

[00:09:49] [SPEAKER_00]: his kingdoms hidden in caves.

[00:09:53] [SPEAKER_00]: That's just he just loves a hidden kingdom.

[00:09:56] [SPEAKER_00]: It's I is Melkor like super bad

[00:09:58] [SPEAKER_00]: at geography where he can't find

[00:10:00] [SPEAKER_00]: any of these places.

[00:10:02] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I don't know.

[00:10:03] [SPEAKER_01]: And I remember reading a reference

[00:10:04] [SPEAKER_01]: somewhere at some point that the

[00:10:06] [SPEAKER_01]: eagles of Banway kind of keep

[00:10:08] [SPEAKER_01]: his his overhead spies from

[00:10:10] [SPEAKER_01]: actually getting close to Gondolin.

[00:10:13] [SPEAKER_01]: I can't that's not in this chapter.

[00:10:15] [SPEAKER_01]: And I can remember if that's in the

[00:10:16] [SPEAKER_01]: similar or where I picked that up.

[00:10:17] [SPEAKER_01]: But but I do remember reading that.

[00:10:19] [SPEAKER_01]: But it's like, yeah, by process

[00:10:21] [SPEAKER_01]: of elimination, Melkor, you probably

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_01]: could have figured out, hey, those

[00:10:25] [SPEAKER_01]: really tall mountains that I can't

[00:10:26] [SPEAKER_01]: see anything over.

[00:10:27] [SPEAKER_01]: There's probably something behind them.

[00:10:30] [SPEAKER_01]: But but you know, it's

[00:10:32] [SPEAKER_01]: this is one of the characteristics

[00:10:34] [SPEAKER_01]: of Tolkien's villains is they have

[00:10:35] [SPEAKER_01]: these weak spots that seem so obvious

[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_01]: to us.

[00:10:38] [SPEAKER_01]: But they are weak spots for

[00:10:40] [SPEAKER_01]: in the hubris of these villains

[00:10:41] [SPEAKER_01]: that they just don't think about

[00:10:42] [SPEAKER_01]: something, you know, Sarra never

[00:10:44] [SPEAKER_01]: considered that somebody would

[00:10:45] [SPEAKER_01]: actually destroy his beautiful

[00:10:46] [SPEAKER_01]: golden ring.

[00:10:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Right. And that it was downfall,

[00:10:49] [SPEAKER_01]: right? So maybe there's something

[00:10:50] [SPEAKER_01]: there with Morgoth where it's like,

[00:10:51] [SPEAKER_01]: no, nobody could actually get

[00:10:52] [SPEAKER_01]: through those mountains.

[00:10:53] [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm not even going to worry

[00:10:54] [SPEAKER_01]: about it. I don't know.

[00:10:55] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'll at least say

[00:10:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Doria at least has the

[00:10:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Gurdrull of million.

[00:11:00] [SPEAKER_00]: It at least has actual

[00:11:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Maiar defense.

[00:11:03] [SPEAKER_00]: And I guess Gondolin has a little

[00:11:05] [SPEAKER_00]: bit of Umo defense too.

[00:11:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. Yeah, it does.

[00:11:07] [SPEAKER_01]: So so you know, yeah,

[00:11:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Nargoth as well.

[00:11:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Nargoth has the river.

[00:11:12] [SPEAKER_01]: I think what is it? Is the river

[00:11:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Syrian?

[00:11:14] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't have I don't have a map

[00:11:15] [SPEAKER_01]: in front of me right now, but,

[00:11:16] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, that river was like

[00:11:18] [SPEAKER_01]: almost protective river.

[00:11:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Gondolin is in this sort of veil

[00:11:22] [SPEAKER_01]: in these mountains.

[00:11:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think in the history of

[00:11:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Middle Earth, they mentioned that

[00:11:26] [SPEAKER_01]: this was sort of an ancient

[00:11:27] [SPEAKER_01]: lake bed where the link had then

[00:11:29] [SPEAKER_01]: kind of dried out, had left

[00:11:31] [SPEAKER_01]: and kind of left this place.

[00:11:33] [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, you've got a lot of

[00:11:34] [SPEAKER_01]: connections to water with Gondolin.

[00:11:37] [SPEAKER_01]: The there's all these fountains

[00:11:39] [SPEAKER_01]: that that Turgon has built

[00:11:41] [SPEAKER_01]: within Gondolin.

[00:11:42] [SPEAKER_01]: And even the the Quenya word

[00:11:44] [SPEAKER_01]: for Gondolin is and I'm

[00:11:46] [SPEAKER_01]: going to have to pronounce this.

[00:11:47] [SPEAKER_01]: So so bear with.

[00:11:49] [SPEAKER_01]: On Dolin Dele,

[00:11:51] [SPEAKER_01]: on Dolin Dele, something like

[00:11:53] [SPEAKER_01]: that, which means

[00:11:55] [SPEAKER_01]: which means the music, the rock

[00:11:56] [SPEAKER_01]: and music, the rock of the

[00:11:58] [SPEAKER_01]: music of water.

[00:11:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Right? Yeah.

[00:12:00] [SPEAKER_01]: And so you've got all these

[00:12:00] [SPEAKER_01]: connections to water in both

[00:12:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Nargoth round and Gondolin

[00:12:03] [SPEAKER_01]: all inspired by Umo.

[00:12:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And so you have that a little

[00:12:06] [SPEAKER_01]: bit of protection from Umo,

[00:12:07] [SPEAKER_01]: who is the valor of

[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_01]: of the water, right?

[00:12:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Of the seas and the oceans.

[00:12:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Do you think that the

[00:12:14] [SPEAKER_00]: discord of Melkor, the

[00:12:15] [SPEAKER_00]: destruction of Melkor upon

[00:12:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Middle Earth had something to do

[00:12:19] [SPEAKER_00]: with the formation of these

[00:12:20] [SPEAKER_00]: caves and these underground

[00:12:22] [SPEAKER_00]: areas? Because I'm a little

[00:12:24] [SPEAKER_00]: bit of the idea that everything

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_00]: was pretty bland before

[00:12:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Melkor did his whole

[00:12:29] [SPEAKER_00]: improvisational jazz solo

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_00]: on Middle Earth.

[00:12:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_01]: So you talk about the

[00:12:35] [SPEAKER_01]: perfection of the creation

[00:12:36] [SPEAKER_01]: of Arda, right in the Valor

[00:12:38] [SPEAKER_01]: kind of created these beautiful

[00:12:39] [SPEAKER_01]: things. And it was only with

[00:12:41] [SPEAKER_01]: the adversity and the

[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_01]: discord, as you say, of

[00:12:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Melkor where new things

[00:12:46] [SPEAKER_01]: came into thought and being

[00:12:47] [SPEAKER_01]: great.

[00:12:49] [SPEAKER_01]: So like there

[00:12:50] [SPEAKER_01]: there was water, but then

[00:12:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Melkor introduces cold and

[00:12:54] [SPEAKER_01]: then you get the beauty of

[00:12:55] [SPEAKER_01]: snow and ice, right?

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Which can be biting and

[00:12:58] [SPEAKER_01]: horrible. And one reason why

[00:13:00] [SPEAKER_01]: I just left Utah, but

[00:13:01] [SPEAKER_01]: it can it also has its

[00:13:03] [SPEAKER_01]: beauty and it's and it's like

[00:13:04] [SPEAKER_01]: wonderful things too.

[00:13:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And so you see that Melkor

[00:13:09] [SPEAKER_01]: kind of prods along

[00:13:11] [SPEAKER_01]: these forces of light and good

[00:13:13] [SPEAKER_01]: to create something better than

[00:13:14] [SPEAKER_01]: what they than what they

[00:13:15] [SPEAKER_01]: otherwise would have thought of.

[00:13:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Now, I don't want to

[00:13:18] [SPEAKER_01]: necessarily say that that

[00:13:20] [SPEAKER_01]: evil then in Tolkien's

[00:13:22] [SPEAKER_01]: cosmology cosmology that

[00:13:23] [SPEAKER_01]: evil is a necessary thing

[00:13:25] [SPEAKER_01]: to advance and progress.

[00:13:28] [SPEAKER_01]: But I would say that the

[00:13:29] [SPEAKER_01]: beauty of the

[00:13:31] [SPEAKER_01]: the beauty of divinity is that

[00:13:32] [SPEAKER_01]: it can take any sort

[00:13:34] [SPEAKER_01]: of discord or adversity, any

[00:13:36] [SPEAKER_01]: bad situation and turn it into

[00:13:38] [SPEAKER_01]: something good.

[00:13:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Right? So you have planes,

[00:13:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Morgoth creates caves.

[00:13:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, let's turn it into

[00:13:43] [SPEAKER_01]: something good. Let's create

[00:13:44] [SPEAKER_01]: some hidden kingdoms or

[00:13:45] [SPEAKER_01]: some things like that.

[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Right. And so I think

[00:13:48] [SPEAKER_01]: that that speaks to the hope

[00:13:49] [SPEAKER_01]: and the optimism that is

[00:13:50] [SPEAKER_01]: generally found throughout

[00:13:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Tolkien works.

[00:13:53] [SPEAKER_00]: It's very much in line

[00:13:55] [SPEAKER_00]: what you're saying with the

[00:13:56] [SPEAKER_00]: music of the iron ore, how

[00:13:58] [SPEAKER_00]: you have the beautiful

[00:13:59] [SPEAKER_00]: melodies of all the Valar

[00:14:01] [SPEAKER_00]: except Melkor.

[00:14:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Melkor comes in plays a

[00:14:04] [SPEAKER_00]: dissonant chord and

[00:14:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Eru Luwitar says, hold my

[00:14:08] [SPEAKER_00]: beer.

[00:14:09] [SPEAKER_00]: And just plays an amazing

[00:14:12] [SPEAKER_00]: jazz solo, an amazing

[00:14:14] [SPEAKER_00]: harmonization on top of

[00:14:15] [SPEAKER_00]: everything that makes

[00:14:16] [SPEAKER_00]: everything feel right.

[00:14:18] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's that's Tolkien's

[00:14:20] [SPEAKER_00]: worldview, I think is that

[00:14:21] [SPEAKER_00]: the pain is not good,

[00:14:24] [SPEAKER_00]: but it's necessary for

[00:14:26] [SPEAKER_00]: the beauty.

[00:14:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the growth can come

[00:14:28] [SPEAKER_01]: from sorrow and

[00:14:30] [SPEAKER_01]: from evil things happening

[00:14:32] [SPEAKER_01]: right that they can all

[00:14:33] [SPEAKER_01]: turn to good.

[00:14:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Right. Sure.

[00:14:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we get a Cinderella

[00:14:36] [SPEAKER_00]: story next.

[00:14:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, which is you have

[00:14:40] [SPEAKER_00]: to make armors to these

[00:14:41] [SPEAKER_00]: measurements and a sort

[00:14:44] [SPEAKER_00]: of this this specification

[00:14:45] [SPEAKER_00]: and leave them in never

[00:14:47] [SPEAKER_00]: asked, leave them where you

[00:14:49] [SPEAKER_00]: are now for someone to

[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_00]: come warn you later.

[00:14:52] [SPEAKER_00]: What if Toren didn't go

[00:14:54] [SPEAKER_00]: on a diet?

[00:14:56] [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?

[00:14:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Like what what happens?

[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_00]: He gains a couple pounds.

[00:14:59] [SPEAKER_00]: He can't fit in the armor.

[00:15:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Gondolin's gone.

[00:15:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, that's

[00:15:03] [SPEAKER_01]: an interesting question.

[00:15:04] [SPEAKER_01]: It speaks to like how do

[00:15:06] [SPEAKER_01]: the Valar know what's going to

[00:15:07] [SPEAKER_01]: happen in the future?

[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Right. Therefore they can take

[00:15:10] [SPEAKER_01]: steps now to prevent what's

[00:15:12] [SPEAKER_01]: going to happen in the future

[00:15:12] [SPEAKER_01]: and almost knows down to

[00:15:14] [SPEAKER_01]: the inch what sort of armor

[00:15:17] [SPEAKER_01]: or maybe maybe he

[00:15:19] [SPEAKER_01]: had taught them how to make

[00:15:20] [SPEAKER_01]: like flexible armor

[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_01]: or something.

[00:15:23] [SPEAKER_00]: He invented the elastic

[00:15:24] [SPEAKER_00]: waist just there you go.

[00:15:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, the elastic waistband

[00:15:27] [SPEAKER_01]: on these on these

[00:15:30] [SPEAKER_00]: elastic chain mail.

[00:15:31] [SPEAKER_00]: I know.

[00:15:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but but you know, they

[00:15:35] [SPEAKER_01]: almost seems to have some

[00:15:37] [SPEAKER_01]: portent of the future and is

[00:15:39] [SPEAKER_01]: able to take action now.

[00:15:41] [SPEAKER_01]: And even in this chapter,

[00:15:43] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, Millian will say

[00:15:45] [SPEAKER_01]: later on that that the Valar

[00:15:46] [SPEAKER_01]: are going to leave those in

[00:15:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Middle Earth to kind of their

[00:15:48] [SPEAKER_01]: own devices, except for

[00:15:50] [SPEAKER_01]: the uttermost need.

[00:15:51] [SPEAKER_01]: And so almost sort of playing

[00:15:52] [SPEAKER_01]: interventionist here and he

[00:15:54] [SPEAKER_01]: of all the Valar was the only

[00:15:56] [SPEAKER_01]: one who was like, I'm still

[00:15:57] [SPEAKER_01]: going to help you.

[00:15:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, even though I can't.

[00:16:00] [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I just wonder

[00:16:02] [SPEAKER_01]: I haven't done the math here,

[00:16:04] [SPEAKER_01]: but I just wonder how long that

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_01]: set of armor and that sword sort

[00:16:06] [SPEAKER_01]: of sat in the ancient

[00:16:08] [SPEAKER_01]: halls of Nevarast

[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_01]: all alone.

[00:16:11] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, and that was on the

[00:16:12] [SPEAKER_01]: coast. Like is it collecting

[00:16:13] [SPEAKER_01]: like you get the sea breeze?

[00:16:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Is it starting to rust or

[00:16:16] [SPEAKER_01]: was it just that perfect that

[00:16:18] [SPEAKER_01]: that it didn't have to?

[00:16:20] [SPEAKER_00]: I get the sense that Elvin

[00:16:23] [SPEAKER_00]: smithing is similar like

[00:16:25] [SPEAKER_00]: like high elf smithing

[00:16:26] [SPEAKER_00]: is similar to like Valerian

[00:16:28] [SPEAKER_00]: still in the Game of Thrones

[00:16:29] [SPEAKER_00]: world, whereas it just doesn't

[00:16:31] [SPEAKER_00]: dull because you see, you know,

[00:16:33] [SPEAKER_00]: sting in the hobbit and Lord of

[00:16:34] [SPEAKER_00]: the Rings, right? It's just

[00:16:35] [SPEAKER_00]: sharp, even though it's been

[00:16:37] [SPEAKER_00]: a troll then for however long.

[00:16:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:16:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's true. And even

[00:16:40] [SPEAKER_01]: ring, even as we're talking

[00:16:41] [SPEAKER_01]: about gondolin, you know,

[00:16:42] [SPEAKER_01]: you have those two swords

[00:16:43] [SPEAKER_01]: that Gandalf and Thorin pick up

[00:16:44] [SPEAKER_01]: and they were still shiny

[00:16:46] [SPEAKER_01]: and bright even from

[00:16:48] [SPEAKER_01]: the work of the first stage.

[00:16:49] [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, maybe they did have

[00:16:50] [SPEAKER_01]: some some skill or some

[00:16:52] [SPEAKER_01]: magic power.

[00:16:53] [SPEAKER_01]: They got the zhush.

[00:16:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, sure.

[00:16:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Elvin, Elvin, Gennis Aquah.

[00:16:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there you go.

[00:16:58] [SPEAKER_00]: We have we have a listener from

[00:17:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Gebek, as he would say.

[00:17:02] [SPEAKER_00]: And he he writes in using

[00:17:06] [SPEAKER_00]: French with French phrases

[00:17:08] [SPEAKER_00]: within his English emails

[00:17:09] [SPEAKER_00]: just to harass me.

[00:17:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Just to make me say that.

[00:17:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yes.

[00:17:13] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's a lot of fun.

[00:17:15] [SPEAKER_00]: There you go. There you go.

[00:17:16] [SPEAKER_01]: That's great.

[00:17:17] [SPEAKER_00]: So any other thoughts on

[00:17:19] [SPEAKER_00]: gondolin before we discuss

[00:17:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Doriath?

[00:17:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so

[00:17:26] [SPEAKER_01]: right before we right

[00:17:28] [SPEAKER_01]: before we leave gondolin,

[00:17:29] [SPEAKER_01]: a couple of mentions here

[00:17:31] [SPEAKER_01]: mentions Idril also called

[00:17:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Kela Brindal.

[00:17:34] [SPEAKER_01]: She will be the mother

[00:17:36] [SPEAKER_01]: of Eidindil.

[00:17:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Eidindil, of course, will carry

[00:17:41] [SPEAKER_01]: one of the Silmarils.

[00:17:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Sorry, spoiler alert for the

[00:17:43] [SPEAKER_01]: rest of the Silmarillion here.

[00:17:45] [SPEAKER_01]: But Eidindil is the father

[00:17:48] [SPEAKER_01]: of Elrond and

[00:17:50] [SPEAKER_01]: and then, of course, all

[00:17:51] [SPEAKER_01]: the Elrond stuff that you get in

[00:17:52] [SPEAKER_01]: the Lord of the Rings.

[00:17:53] [SPEAKER_01]: So this is where Elrond's

[00:17:54] [SPEAKER_01]: connection to gondolin comes.

[00:17:56] [SPEAKER_01]: It's it would be his grandmother

[00:17:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Idril was sort of born and raised

[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_01]: there in in Gondolin.

[00:18:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think I think that's good

[00:18:06] [SPEAKER_01]: on gondolin for now, but I just

[00:18:07] [SPEAKER_01]: wanted to make that Elrond

[00:18:08] [SPEAKER_01]: connection before we left.

[00:18:09] [SPEAKER_00]: That's a good connection.

[00:18:10] [SPEAKER_00]: That's a good point.

[00:18:11] [SPEAKER_00]: So I know next month

[00:18:13] [SPEAKER_00]: we'll be doing of Maglun

[00:18:15] [SPEAKER_00]: and then we'll get even more

[00:18:16] [SPEAKER_00]: gondolin nonsense.

[00:18:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, absolutely.

[00:18:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Maglun is a that's a tragedy of a

[00:18:22] [SPEAKER_01]: tale.

[00:18:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I know, but it's one of my favorite

[00:18:24] [SPEAKER_00]: tales. I can I tell you, I so

[00:18:26] [SPEAKER_00]: hoped for rings of power

[00:18:28] [SPEAKER_00]: to have Maglun

[00:18:31] [SPEAKER_00]: as part of this like lost El

[00:18:33] [SPEAKER_00]: thing, this like dark elf kind of

[00:18:35] [SPEAKER_01]: thing. Yeah.

[00:18:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Because it's not explicitly stated

[00:18:38] [SPEAKER_00]: that he dies ever.

[00:18:39] [SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like the Stannis

[00:18:40] [SPEAKER_00]: death in Game of Thrones.

[00:18:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Like he doesn't die on screen.

[00:18:43] [SPEAKER_00]: It could could still live.

[00:18:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:18:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I get thrown over a wall

[00:18:48] [SPEAKER_01]: and bouncing off the wall.

[00:18:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I think three times into the fire.

[00:18:50] [SPEAKER_01]: I guess, you know, well, I guess

[00:18:52] [SPEAKER_01]: if we're going by Star Wars, then

[00:18:54] [SPEAKER_01]: if you fall into a pit, you're

[00:18:55] [SPEAKER_01]: more likely to survive than to

[00:18:57] [SPEAKER_01]: not. So right, right.

[00:18:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Here we go.

[00:18:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Look, if if you can make

[00:19:02] [SPEAKER_00]: rings out of myth, if if a

[00:19:03] [SPEAKER_00]: myth roll is Silmaril juice,

[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_00]: then I think that we can have

[00:19:08] [SPEAKER_00]: we can have Maglun still around.

[00:19:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, we could.

[00:19:12] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not exactly a big fan of

[00:19:13] [SPEAKER_01]: myth realist Silmaril.

[00:19:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I'm not either, but I'm

[00:19:16] [SPEAKER_00]: living with it at this point.

[00:19:18] [SPEAKER_00]: No, you have to.

[00:19:19] [SPEAKER_01]: It's just have to.

[00:19:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:19:21] [SPEAKER_00]: All right, let's talk about

[00:19:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Doriath for a little bit.

[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Galadriel is hanging out in Doriath.

[00:19:26] [SPEAKER_00]: She's real chill about it.

[00:19:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, Finn Rod is going on

[00:19:30] [SPEAKER_00]: forging Nargothrond and

[00:19:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Melian.

[00:19:33] [SPEAKER_00]: He's like, hey, can you give me

[00:19:35] [SPEAKER_00]: the gossip just between us?

[00:19:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Just between us girls.

[00:19:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Yep. Yep.

[00:19:41] [SPEAKER_00]: But and Galadriel gives us

[00:19:42] [SPEAKER_00]: essentially the rings of power

[00:19:43] [SPEAKER_00]: opening, which is just

[00:19:45] [SPEAKER_00]: no lower propaganda of we

[00:19:47] [SPEAKER_00]: came to get the Silmarils back

[00:19:49] [SPEAKER_00]: and nothing else.

[00:19:50] [SPEAKER_00]: There was there were no hiccups

[00:19:52] [SPEAKER_00]: along the way. We were just fine.

[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_00]: We all sailed together and we

[00:19:55] [SPEAKER_00]: all held hands.

[00:19:56] [SPEAKER_00]: I love Melian here.

[00:19:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Do I not strike near the truth

[00:20:01] [SPEAKER_00]: and Galadriel replies near?

[00:20:05] [SPEAKER_00]: It's so I love young Galadriel

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_00]: and I feel like we were robbed of

[00:20:10] [SPEAKER_00]: a lot of writings of Galadriel by

[00:20:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Tolkien dying when he did.

[00:20:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yeah.

[00:20:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, we know that he was

[00:20:15] [SPEAKER_01]: working on her on her tail.

[00:20:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Even in the last month of his life.

[00:20:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Right?

[00:20:19] [SPEAKER_01]: I think Christopher Tolkien let us

[00:20:21] [SPEAKER_00]: know that's right.

[00:20:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:20:23] [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, young Galadriel here in

[00:20:24] [SPEAKER_01]: the first age, you know, and she

[00:20:25] [SPEAKER_01]: came to Middle Earth because

[00:20:27] [SPEAKER_01]: she wanted to rule kingdoms of

[00:20:29] [SPEAKER_01]: her own. And it's interesting here

[00:20:31] [SPEAKER_01]: that she actually doesn't

[00:20:32] [SPEAKER_01]: necessarily end up doing that in

[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_01]: the first stage.

[00:20:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Here in the first stage, she's

[00:20:36] [SPEAKER_01]: hanging out with Melian for a

[00:20:38] [SPEAKER_01]: long, long time.

[00:20:39] [SPEAKER_01]: And she gets that tutelage

[00:20:41] [SPEAKER_01]: from Melian. They have a lot of

[00:20:42] [SPEAKER_01]: different conversations.

[00:20:44] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think Galadriel learns

[00:20:45] [SPEAKER_01]: a lot from Melian.

[00:20:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Melian's really wise and

[00:20:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Fingal is,

[00:20:50] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, you think Melkor is

[00:20:52] [SPEAKER_01]: pretty stupid. Well, here's

[00:20:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Fingal, you know, he's married to

[00:20:54] [SPEAKER_01]: like a demigod and he hardly

[00:20:56] [SPEAKER_01]: listens to her.

[00:20:57] [SPEAKER_00]: The smartest thing that

[00:20:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Fingal ever did was marry

[00:20:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Melian. And that was the last

[00:21:00] [SPEAKER_01]: smart thing. That was the last

[00:21:01] [SPEAKER_01]: thing you did. Yeah.

[00:21:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.

[00:21:04] [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, Melian is she's

[00:21:06] [SPEAKER_01]: pretty wise. She's kind of

[00:21:07] [SPEAKER_01]: guessing what's going on here

[00:21:08] [SPEAKER_01]: and Galadriel is not really

[00:21:10] [SPEAKER_01]: willing to say

[00:21:11] [SPEAKER_01]: she's not lying.

[00:21:13] [SPEAKER_01]: But she's just saying, yeah,

[00:21:16] [SPEAKER_01]: there's more of it, right?

[00:21:17] [SPEAKER_01]: And maybe Fingal needs to know,

[00:21:19] [SPEAKER_01]: but I'm not the one to tell

[00:21:20] [SPEAKER_01]: him like it's not really me.

[00:21:22] [SPEAKER_01]: And you know, to her credit,

[00:21:23] [SPEAKER_01]: she didn't really participate

[00:21:24] [SPEAKER_01]: in the kin slaying.

[00:21:26] [SPEAKER_01]: They kind of showed up afterwards.

[00:21:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And in fact, their mother was

[00:21:31] [SPEAKER_01]: of the Tulare who were

[00:21:33] [SPEAKER_01]: victims of the kin slaying.

[00:21:34] [SPEAKER_01]: And so that's why they're even

[00:21:36] [SPEAKER_01]: connected here into Doriath

[00:21:38] [SPEAKER_01]: anyway.

[00:21:40] [SPEAKER_01]: But but still, she doesn't want

[00:21:42] [SPEAKER_01]: to give give the whole truth,

[00:21:44] [SPEAKER_01]: nothing but the truth.

[00:21:46] [SPEAKER_01]: And you know, what are they

[00:21:48] [SPEAKER_01]: saying in court? The truth,

[00:21:49] [SPEAKER_01]: the whole truth and nothing

[00:21:49] [SPEAKER_01]: about the truth. Is that how it

[00:21:50] [SPEAKER_01]: goes? Yeah, there you go.

[00:21:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I you know, I think

[00:21:54] [SPEAKER_00]: that.

[00:21:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Galadriel and Finrod both do a

[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_00]: similar thing where they go,

[00:21:59] [SPEAKER_00]: well, that's not my story to

[00:22:00] [SPEAKER_00]: tell because that was not my

[00:22:02] [SPEAKER_00]: wrongdoing. And they don't

[00:22:03] [SPEAKER_00]: know they don't want to

[00:22:06] [SPEAKER_00]: throw the sons of feyn or

[00:22:08] [SPEAKER_00]: under the bus. I think

[00:22:09] [SPEAKER_00]: that's where they're at.

[00:22:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, they don't.

[00:22:12] [SPEAKER_01]: And they also know they they're

[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_01]: aware of the doom of Bandos,

[00:22:15] [SPEAKER_01]: right? And that doom of Bandos

[00:22:16] [SPEAKER_01]: and that's connection to the

[00:22:18] [SPEAKER_01]: oath of feyn or so this is one

[00:22:19] [SPEAKER_01]: of the oaths that kind of comes

[00:22:20] [SPEAKER_01]: into play in this chapter was

[00:22:21] [SPEAKER_01]: the oath of feyn or in his sons.

[00:22:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so let's go to that.

[00:22:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Let's go. Melion.

[00:22:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Melion.

[00:22:27] [SPEAKER_01]: She's able to she goes.

[00:22:28] [SPEAKER_01]: She learns this stuff from

[00:22:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Galadriel. She goes and she

[00:22:30] [SPEAKER_01]: talks to Thingall

[00:22:32] [SPEAKER_01]: about this stuff.

[00:22:34] [SPEAKER_01]: And and Thingall

[00:22:37] [SPEAKER_01]: realizes, yeah, the noldor

[00:22:38] [SPEAKER_01]: they didn't really come.

[00:22:39] [SPEAKER_01]: They weren't really messengers.

[00:22:40] [SPEAKER_01]: They haven't really come.

[00:22:42] [SPEAKER_01]: They came just in time to help

[00:22:44] [SPEAKER_01]: us in the previous chapters.

[00:22:47] [SPEAKER_01]: And but they only came,

[00:22:49] [SPEAKER_01]: he says they came at the right

[00:22:51] [SPEAKER_01]: time by chance, right?

[00:22:53] [SPEAKER_01]: And chance is

[00:22:55] [SPEAKER_01]: an interesting theme when it

[00:22:56] [SPEAKER_01]: comes to Tolkien and Lord of

[00:22:58] [SPEAKER_01]: the Rings.

[00:22:59] [SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot to do with chance

[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_01]: of Gandalf meeting

[00:23:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Thorin, Bilbo finding

[00:23:06] [SPEAKER_01]: the ring, Frodo barely

[00:23:08] [SPEAKER_01]: escaping the Nazgul like this

[00:23:10] [SPEAKER_01]: theme of chance comes up a lot.

[00:23:12] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's and it's right here

[00:23:13] [SPEAKER_01]: again in the Somerilian.

[00:23:14] [SPEAKER_01]: And so whenever you hear

[00:23:16] [SPEAKER_01]: the word chance and talking,

[00:23:18] [SPEAKER_01]: it's worth taking just a moment

[00:23:19] [SPEAKER_01]: to sit back and think, oh,

[00:23:21] [SPEAKER_01]: well, what would have happened

[00:23:22] [SPEAKER_01]: if that if that hadn't

[00:23:24] [SPEAKER_01]: happened? And it seems

[00:23:26] [SPEAKER_01]: that there's more than it's

[00:23:27] [SPEAKER_01]: not just luck or chance,

[00:23:29] [SPEAKER_01]: but there seems to be some

[00:23:30] [SPEAKER_01]: divine intervention

[00:23:32] [SPEAKER_01]: or will that is happening.

[00:23:34] [SPEAKER_01]: And to the players on the stage,

[00:23:35] [SPEAKER_01]: it feels like chance.

[00:23:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:23:37] [SPEAKER_01]: But when you look at it across

[00:23:39] [SPEAKER_01]: the whole broad spectrum,

[00:23:40] [SPEAKER_01]: there's actually it's actually

[00:23:41] [SPEAKER_01]: more than than just chance.

[00:23:43] [SPEAKER_01]: There seems to be some

[00:23:43] [SPEAKER_01]: divine intervention there.

[00:23:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's some there's

[00:23:46] [SPEAKER_00]: some error nudges, let's say.

[00:23:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, some error nudges.

[00:23:50] [SPEAKER_01]: I love that. That's great.

[00:23:51] [SPEAKER_00]: He's doing it.

[00:23:52] [SPEAKER_00]: You know what his thing?

[00:23:53] [SPEAKER_00]: I do really like

[00:23:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Fingal goes

[00:23:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Silmorels.

[00:23:57] [SPEAKER_00]: That seems like a big deal.

[00:23:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Like he's like, hey,

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_00]: that's the name of the book.

[00:24:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, that's the name

[00:24:04] [SPEAKER_01]: of the book.

[00:24:04] [SPEAKER_01]: That's the title.

[00:24:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. And he's like, oh,

[00:24:07] [SPEAKER_01]: a feanor. He must have been a great

[00:24:09] [SPEAKER_01]: person because I've kind of heard

[00:24:10] [SPEAKER_01]: about him, even though he seems to

[00:24:11] [SPEAKER_01]: have passed on.

[00:24:12] [SPEAKER_01]: But he doesn't yet realize

[00:24:14] [SPEAKER_01]: that, you know, what me,

[00:24:16] [SPEAKER_01]: what Mellion has been able to

[00:24:17] [SPEAKER_01]: articulate, like the whole fate

[00:24:19] [SPEAKER_01]: of the world, the whole fate of

[00:24:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Arta, it's now tied and connected

[00:24:22] [SPEAKER_01]: to these Silmorels.

[00:24:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:24:26] [SPEAKER_01]: And and she's able to really see

[00:24:28] [SPEAKER_01]: that. Think all this and get

[00:24:29] [SPEAKER_01]: picked up on that.

[00:24:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't think any of the

[00:24:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Noldor or any of the other elves

[00:24:32] [SPEAKER_01]: really pick up on that.

[00:24:33] [SPEAKER_01]: But right.

[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_01]: The story of the Silmorels

[00:24:35] [SPEAKER_01]: and and even more specifically,

[00:24:37] [SPEAKER_01]: I'd say the story of the light of

[00:24:39] [SPEAKER_01]: the two trees.

[00:24:40] [SPEAKER_01]: That is the story of

[00:24:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Middle Earth. Right.

[00:24:45] [SPEAKER_01]: What happened to those two trees

[00:24:47] [SPEAKER_01]: is captured in the Silmorels.

[00:24:49] [SPEAKER_01]: All of the implications of that

[00:24:50] [SPEAKER_01]: all the way down to Sauron.

[00:24:52] [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, Sam has this

[00:24:53] [SPEAKER_01]: beautiful moment.

[00:24:54] [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's in the Two Towers

[00:24:56] [SPEAKER_01]: book when he's like, I

[00:24:57] [SPEAKER_01]: wonder if we'll be in Songs for

[00:24:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Tales. And he's like, oh, I

[00:24:59] [SPEAKER_01]: just realized we're in the same

[00:25:01] [SPEAKER_01]: tale that Bill Bo used to tell

[00:25:02] [SPEAKER_01]: us about Baron and the Silmorels

[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_01]: like, Malion has been able to

[00:25:06] [SPEAKER_01]: figure this out pretty quickly

[00:25:07] [SPEAKER_01]: that the whole rest of the world,

[00:25:09] [SPEAKER_01]: the fate of the world is now

[00:25:11] [SPEAKER_01]: connected with these three

[00:25:12] [SPEAKER_01]: little gems that contain the

[00:25:14] [SPEAKER_01]: light of two trees.

[00:25:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Wow, I really like that.

[00:25:18] [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, that's interesting.

[00:25:20] [SPEAKER_01]: You just never see like, oh,

[00:25:21] [SPEAKER_01]: this thing led to that thing

[00:25:22] [SPEAKER_01]: led to this thing led to that

[00:25:23] [SPEAKER_01]: thing. And it all ties back

[00:25:24] [SPEAKER_01]: to something.

[00:25:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:25:27] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's some it's

[00:25:29] [SPEAKER_01]: it's easy to see in retrospective.

[00:25:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Malion here is really showing her

[00:25:33] [SPEAKER_01]: wisdom or she could see it in

[00:25:35] [SPEAKER_01]: real time.

[00:25:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Right. And her words specifically,

[00:25:37] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to I'm going to quote

[00:25:38] [SPEAKER_01]: from the book.

[00:25:40] [SPEAKER_01]: It says, this is a great

[00:25:42] [SPEAKER_01]: matter greater indeed than the

[00:25:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Noldor themselves understand

[00:25:46] [SPEAKER_01]: for the light of Aman and the

[00:25:47] [SPEAKER_01]: fate of Arda lie locked

[00:25:49] [SPEAKER_01]: now in these things, the work

[00:25:51] [SPEAKER_01]: of Faeanor who is gone.

[00:25:53] [SPEAKER_01]: They shall not be recovered,

[00:25:55] [SPEAKER_01]: I've foretold by any power of

[00:25:56] [SPEAKER_01]: the Eldar and the world

[00:25:58] [SPEAKER_01]: shall be broken in battles that

[00:25:59] [SPEAKER_01]: are to come ere they are

[00:26:01] [SPEAKER_01]: rested from Morgoth.

[00:26:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Like Malion is able to

[00:26:05] [SPEAKER_01]: to piece this together

[00:26:07] [SPEAKER_01]: and she can see the

[00:26:09] [SPEAKER_01]: end from this little

[00:26:11] [SPEAKER_01]: middle piece right here.

[00:26:12] [SPEAKER_01]: And she can even foretold like

[00:26:13] [SPEAKER_01]: even the Eldar, the Eldar or

[00:26:15] [SPEAKER_01]: all of the elves, they're not

[00:26:17] [SPEAKER_01]: going to be able to get the

[00:26:17] [SPEAKER_01]: simmaryls back.

[00:26:18] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's interesting the one

[00:26:20] [SPEAKER_01]: simmaryl that they do get back.

[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_01]: It's from her own daughter,

[00:26:24] [SPEAKER_01]: right? Who is half elf,

[00:26:26] [SPEAKER_01]: half half Maya,

[00:26:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Luthien and the man Baron

[00:26:30] [SPEAKER_01]: who team up and they're able

[00:26:31] [SPEAKER_01]: to get one of those simmaryls.

[00:26:33] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's I just think

[00:26:35] [SPEAKER_01]: she's a pretty wise person,

[00:26:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Malion and Fingal would do

[00:26:38] [SPEAKER_01]: better to to to listen

[00:26:40] [SPEAKER_01]: to her counsel a little more

[00:26:41] [SPEAKER_01]: often. Absolutely.

[00:26:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you've got

[00:26:46] [SPEAKER_00]: you've got Finrod here

[00:26:47] [SPEAKER_00]: and Finrods getting

[00:26:50] [SPEAKER_00]: accusations thrown at him

[00:26:52] [SPEAKER_00]: by by Fingal

[00:26:53] [SPEAKER_00]: in the end.

[00:26:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Finrod, just like his sister,

[00:26:56] [SPEAKER_00]: doesn't want to spill the beans

[00:26:57] [SPEAKER_00]: about everything, doesn't want

[00:26:58] [SPEAKER_00]: to throw the sons of Faeanor

[00:26:59] [SPEAKER_00]: under the bus.

[00:27:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Engrod, of course,

[00:27:02] [SPEAKER_00]: who we know was spurned by

[00:27:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Karen Thier

[00:27:05] [SPEAKER_00]: last last couple

[00:27:07] [SPEAKER_00]: chapters ago.

[00:27:08] [SPEAKER_00]: And it has this grudge against

[00:27:11] [SPEAKER_00]: the sons of the nobler.

[00:27:12] [SPEAKER_00]: We know he stocked off angrily

[00:27:13] [SPEAKER_00]: after telling them the ruling

[00:27:15] [SPEAKER_00]: about oh, you can settle these

[00:27:16] [SPEAKER_00]: lands from Fingal.

[00:27:18] [SPEAKER_00]: And he comes

[00:27:20] [SPEAKER_00]: and he's like, actually,

[00:27:21] [SPEAKER_00]: they're ugly and they

[00:27:23] [SPEAKER_00]: destroyed everything.

[00:27:24] [SPEAKER_00]: And here's my burn book

[00:27:26] [SPEAKER_00]: about the sons of Faeanor.

[00:27:28] [SPEAKER_00]: And they called me names.

[00:27:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Right, right.

[00:27:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. So Engrod really spills it

[00:27:32] [SPEAKER_01]: all. He really spills it all.

[00:27:34] [SPEAKER_01]: These are Finrod and Angrod,

[00:27:35] [SPEAKER_01]: two brothers of Galadriel who

[00:27:36] [SPEAKER_01]: are visiting her sister there.

[00:27:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Fingal is their great

[00:27:41] [SPEAKER_01]: uncle of some sort.

[00:27:43] [SPEAKER_01]: I forget the exact family

[00:27:44] [SPEAKER_00]: somewhere in there.

[00:27:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. But their mother was to

[00:27:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Larry related to things.

[00:27:47] [SPEAKER_01]: All the family connections

[00:27:49] [SPEAKER_01]: are there, right?

[00:27:50] [SPEAKER_01]: And and it's interesting

[00:27:51] [SPEAKER_01]: talking when he's like

[00:27:53] [SPEAKER_01]: he sometimes he glazes over

[00:27:55] [SPEAKER_01]: some of the plot points that

[00:27:56] [SPEAKER_01]: he doesn't quite have

[00:27:57] [SPEAKER_01]: figured out.

[00:27:59] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, that's like this whole

[00:28:00] [SPEAKER_01]: conversation started because it's

[00:28:01] [SPEAKER_01]: like suddenly these

[00:28:03] [SPEAKER_01]: brothers were visiting Galadriel

[00:28:05] [SPEAKER_01]: and you know what, Fingal,

[00:28:07] [SPEAKER_01]: he was a little heated that night.

[00:28:08] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, maybe he had a little too

[00:28:09] [SPEAKER_01]: much too much to drink that night.

[00:28:11] [SPEAKER_01]: And and

[00:28:12] [SPEAKER_01]: he accuses these guys of what

[00:28:15] [SPEAKER_01]: they're doing.

[00:28:15] [SPEAKER_01]: And I just love he can just kind

[00:28:17] [SPEAKER_01]: of glazes over that.

[00:28:18] [SPEAKER_01]: But then we get this whole

[00:28:19] [SPEAKER_01]: conversation.

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Angrod does.

[00:28:21] [SPEAKER_01]: He spills all of the beans.

[00:28:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. The sons of Faeanor,

[00:28:25] [SPEAKER_01]: they did this kinslaying.

[00:28:26] [SPEAKER_01]: It's just a very tragic and evil

[00:28:28] [SPEAKER_01]: thing to do.

[00:28:29] [SPEAKER_01]: But he still says we were not a

[00:28:31] [SPEAKER_01]: part of that, right?

[00:28:32] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to quote from the book

[00:28:33] [SPEAKER_01]: again. He says, guiltless.

[00:28:35] [SPEAKER_01]: We came forth, save maybe a folly

[00:28:37] [SPEAKER_01]: to listen to the words of fell

[00:28:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Faeanor and become

[00:28:40] [SPEAKER_01]: as if besotted with wine

[00:28:42] [SPEAKER_01]: as if briefly.

[00:28:43] [SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, he kind of says,

[00:28:45] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah, Faeanor did that.

[00:28:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Hina's sons did that.

[00:28:48] [SPEAKER_01]: We didn't participate in it.

[00:28:50] [SPEAKER_01]: And then they left us behind.

[00:28:51] [SPEAKER_01]: They took all the boats

[00:28:52] [SPEAKER_01]: and they took them across the

[00:28:54] [SPEAKER_01]: sea and they burnt them.

[00:28:55] [SPEAKER_01]: And then we had to atone for

[00:28:57] [SPEAKER_01]: whatever our folly was

[00:28:59] [SPEAKER_01]: by passing through the grinding

[00:29:00] [SPEAKER_01]: ice.

[00:29:02] [SPEAKER_01]: And we go back to the trailers

[00:29:04] [SPEAKER_01]: of season one of Rings of Power

[00:29:05] [SPEAKER_01]: and there was this passage of

[00:29:06] [SPEAKER_01]: elves going through ice.

[00:29:07] [SPEAKER_01]: And we know now that it was sort

[00:29:09] [SPEAKER_01]: of that opening scene of episode

[00:29:10] [SPEAKER_01]: one. But my one of my first

[00:29:12] [SPEAKER_01]: theories was we're going to see

[00:29:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Galadriel and Finrod and all

[00:29:15] [SPEAKER_01]: their folks traveling through

[00:29:16] [SPEAKER_01]: the grinding ice at the first

[00:29:17] [SPEAKER_01]: age. Right.

[00:29:18] [SPEAKER_01]: We kind of glazed over that

[00:29:19] [SPEAKER_01]: in the prologue of Rings of

[00:29:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Mourn. But but yeah, that

[00:29:22] [SPEAKER_01]: crossing of the ice

[00:29:24] [SPEAKER_01]: not an ideal situation

[00:29:27] [SPEAKER_01]: for those elves.

[00:29:28] [SPEAKER_01]: And right.

[00:29:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And think all seems to buy it.

[00:29:30] [SPEAKER_01]: He seems to say, OK, yeah,

[00:29:31] [SPEAKER_01]: maybe you didn't participate

[00:29:32] [SPEAKER_01]: in this. Yeah, maybe you were

[00:29:34] [SPEAKER_01]: a little bit caught up in Faeanor

[00:29:35] [SPEAKER_01]: sort of vision of going back

[00:29:36] [SPEAKER_01]: to Middle Earth and reclaiming

[00:29:37] [SPEAKER_01]: the Silmarils.

[00:29:39] [SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, you did have to pay

[00:29:40] [SPEAKER_01]: for it through the grinding ice.

[00:29:42] [SPEAKER_01]: So he sort of forgives them

[00:29:43] [SPEAKER_01]: for that.

[00:29:44] [SPEAKER_01]: But he this is

[00:29:46] [SPEAKER_01]: this is another one of the Oaths.

[00:29:47] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to call it an oath

[00:29:48] [SPEAKER_01]: that thing all makes.

[00:29:50] [SPEAKER_01]: And he essentially provides

[00:29:52] [SPEAKER_01]: the first censorship of Middle

[00:29:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Earth.

[00:29:55] [SPEAKER_01]: He says that the language of

[00:29:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Quenya or the language that

[00:29:58] [SPEAKER_01]: the Noldor speak is no longer

[00:30:00] [SPEAKER_01]: allowed to be speak anywhere

[00:30:02] [SPEAKER_01]: where the Sindar elves

[00:30:03] [SPEAKER_01]: are.

[00:30:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And so just just

[00:30:06] [SPEAKER_01]: quick recap, the Noldor came

[00:30:08] [SPEAKER_01]: to Valinor.

[00:30:09] [SPEAKER_01]: They saw the light of the trees.

[00:30:11] [SPEAKER_01]: The Sindar were willing to make

[00:30:12] [SPEAKER_01]: that journey, but they never

[00:30:13] [SPEAKER_01]: actually made it to see the

[00:30:15] [SPEAKER_01]: light of the trees.

[00:30:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Right. So there's a lot more

[00:30:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Sindar than there are no Lord

[00:30:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Middle Earth.

[00:30:19] [SPEAKER_01]: But it's from this point

[00:30:21] [SPEAKER_01]: forth that Fingal says

[00:30:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, if you speak Quenya, the

[00:30:24] [SPEAKER_01]: language of the Noldor,

[00:30:25] [SPEAKER_01]: then I'm going to count you as

[00:30:28] [SPEAKER_01]: as a trader.

[00:30:29] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to count you as a

[00:30:30] [SPEAKER_01]: treasonous trader and you will

[00:30:32] [SPEAKER_01]: not be allowed in my presence

[00:30:33] [SPEAKER_01]: or in my in my realms.

[00:30:35] [SPEAKER_01]: And the elves, the elves pick

[00:30:37] [SPEAKER_01]: up on that. And they follow

[00:30:38] [SPEAKER_01]: that that language ban.

[00:30:41] [SPEAKER_01]: And what does that mean for

[00:30:42] [SPEAKER_01]: you and I? Well, what that

[00:30:43] [SPEAKER_01]: means for us is that most

[00:30:45] [SPEAKER_01]: of the Elvish words that you

[00:30:47] [SPEAKER_01]: and I know and most of the

[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Elvish here, like in the

[00:30:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Peter Jackson movies, that is

[00:30:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Sindarin Elvish.

[00:30:53] [SPEAKER_01]: It's not it's not Quenya,

[00:30:55] [SPEAKER_01]: right? Like, for example, I

[00:30:56] [SPEAKER_01]: mean, we talked about Gondolin

[00:30:57] [SPEAKER_01]: before. Well, Gondolin is

[00:31:00] [SPEAKER_01]: the Sindarin word for that

[00:31:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Hedding Kingdom, right?

[00:31:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Tolkien gave us the Quenya

[00:31:05] [SPEAKER_01]: word on on Lindele or

[00:31:07] [SPEAKER_01]: whatever that was that I

[00:31:08] [SPEAKER_01]: couldn't pronounce earlier.

[00:31:09] [SPEAKER_01]: He gave us that one.

[00:31:11] [SPEAKER_01]: But even something like, you

[00:31:13] [SPEAKER_01]: know, when the fellowships

[00:31:14] [SPEAKER_01]: outside the doors of Moria

[00:31:15] [SPEAKER_01]: and Frodo's like, oh, it's

[00:31:17] [SPEAKER_01]: a riddle. What's the Elvish

[00:31:18] [SPEAKER_01]: word for friend? And Gandalf

[00:31:19] [SPEAKER_01]: says Melon, you know,

[00:31:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Melon, that is a Sindarin

[00:31:22] [SPEAKER_01]: word. Galad, as in Galadriel

[00:31:25] [SPEAKER_01]: or Gilgalad, that is the

[00:31:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Sindarin word for light.

[00:31:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Ameladris, the the Elvish name

[00:31:31] [SPEAKER_01]: for Rivendell is a Sindarin

[00:31:32] [SPEAKER_01]: word. Lothlorien, where

[00:31:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Galadriel will end up is a

[00:31:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Sindarin word. The Quenya was

[00:31:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Lorien, something like that.

[00:31:40] [SPEAKER_01]: And so all of not all of

[00:31:42] [SPEAKER_01]: it, but most of the Elvish

[00:31:43] [SPEAKER_01]: that people can pick up on and

[00:31:44] [SPEAKER_01]: kind of remember it is that

[00:31:46] [SPEAKER_01]: that sort of Sindarin

[00:31:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Elvish that every day speaking

[00:31:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Elvish and Quenya sort of

[00:31:52] [SPEAKER_01]: becomes this language of Lor

[00:31:54] [SPEAKER_01]: our real world equivalent would

[00:31:56] [SPEAKER_01]: be like Latin, where you know,

[00:31:58] [SPEAKER_01]: we kind of study Latin, but

[00:31:59] [SPEAKER_01]: nobody really speaks that.

[00:32:01] [SPEAKER_01]: That's sort of what Quenya or

[00:32:03] [SPEAKER_01]: the language of the Noldor

[00:32:03] [SPEAKER_01]: becomes because of this.

[00:32:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. And it's an interesting

[00:32:07] [SPEAKER_00]: thing in rings of power, they

[00:32:10] [SPEAKER_00]: choose to have the Numenoreans

[00:32:12] [SPEAKER_00]: to have Elendil speak to

[00:32:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Galadriel in Quenya, not

[00:32:16] [SPEAKER_00]: in Sindarin.

[00:32:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And I wonder two

[00:32:19] [SPEAKER_00]: the two theories I have on that

[00:32:20] [SPEAKER_00]: is just he comes from

[00:32:23] [SPEAKER_00]: the line of Elros. Elros was

[00:32:25] [SPEAKER_00]: a Lor guy, probably

[00:32:27] [SPEAKER_00]: dealt a lot in Quenya more than

[00:32:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Sindarin wouldn't have had a

[00:32:30] [SPEAKER_00]: lot of reasons to speak in

[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Sindarin. But the other thing

[00:32:32] [SPEAKER_00]: is I know that this is your

[00:32:34] [SPEAKER_00]: language Galadriel.

[00:32:35] [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm going to speak this

[00:32:36] [SPEAKER_00]: one to you.

[00:32:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:32:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Like did he did?

[00:32:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Did he know both dialects

[00:32:42] [SPEAKER_01]: of Elvish?

[00:32:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Smart guy.

[00:32:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Like yeah.

[00:32:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. And so it's an it's an

[00:32:47] [SPEAKER_01]: interesting choice. And we do

[00:32:48] [SPEAKER_01]: know that the Noldor, even

[00:32:50] [SPEAKER_01]: amongst themselves, they sort

[00:32:51] [SPEAKER_01]: of kept the language alive.

[00:32:52] [SPEAKER_01]: But but mostly for for the

[00:32:55] [SPEAKER_01]: friendship with with the with

[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_01]: the Sylvan elves, they do

[00:32:59] [SPEAKER_01]: pick up Sindarin as sort of

[00:33:01] [SPEAKER_01]: the everyday language.

[00:33:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Right. I wanted to go back

[00:33:03] [SPEAKER_00]: to your point on that thing

[00:33:05] [SPEAKER_00]: will just kind of accepts what

[00:33:07] [SPEAKER_00]: they say.

[00:33:08] [SPEAKER_00]: There's this concept that are

[00:33:11] [SPEAKER_00]: frequent Tolkien scholar.

[00:33:12] [SPEAKER_00]: We call her our favorite

[00:33:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Tolkien scholar.

[00:33:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Marilyn Arpochila, who

[00:33:17] [SPEAKER_00]: she always brings us up.

[00:33:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Osanwe Kenta, have you heard

[00:33:20] [SPEAKER_00]: this term?

[00:33:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Because I have for her.

[00:33:23] [SPEAKER_00]: This comes from an essay

[00:33:25] [SPEAKER_00]: in Morgoth's Ring.

[00:33:27] [SPEAKER_00]: OK, that says basically

[00:33:30] [SPEAKER_00]: people, especially the wise,

[00:33:32] [SPEAKER_00]: mostly the wise in Tolkien,

[00:33:34] [SPEAKER_00]: can sort of see

[00:33:36] [SPEAKER_00]: the light intention

[00:33:38] [SPEAKER_00]: of each other's minds.

[00:33:40] [SPEAKER_00]: And so I can open

[00:33:42] [SPEAKER_00]: myself up to you and so

[00:33:44] [SPEAKER_00]: that you can understand my

[00:33:46] [SPEAKER_00]: intention and my my

[00:33:48] [SPEAKER_00]: general vibe, my general

[00:33:49] [SPEAKER_00]: thoughts.

[00:33:51] [SPEAKER_00]: And people can close off.

[00:33:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And so when Anatar goes

[00:33:55] [SPEAKER_00]: to Kela Brimbor, he's closed

[00:33:56] [SPEAKER_00]: off, which is why Kela Brimbor

[00:33:58] [SPEAKER_00]: was suspicious of of

[00:34:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Anatar.

[00:34:01] [SPEAKER_00]: And I've thought about this

[00:34:03] [SPEAKER_00]: a lot in as I go through the

[00:34:05] [SPEAKER_00]: chapters now. And I think this

[00:34:06] [SPEAKER_00]: is probably one of those where

[00:34:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Finrod says, you know, take a

[00:34:09] [SPEAKER_00]: look a little bit, you know,

[00:34:10] [SPEAKER_00]: understand my mind

[00:34:12] [SPEAKER_00]: and understand that I'm telling

[00:34:14] [SPEAKER_00]: you the truth here.

[00:34:14] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's why the elves

[00:34:15] [SPEAKER_00]: are able to trust each other more

[00:34:17] [SPEAKER_00]: than men are, more than

[00:34:19] [SPEAKER_00]: non-numinoean men are because I

[00:34:20] [SPEAKER_00]: know the numinoean men are

[00:34:22] [SPEAKER_00]: capable of doing this too.

[00:34:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they kind of pick up on

[00:34:24] [SPEAKER_01]: that a little bit.

[00:34:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's really interesting

[00:34:28] [SPEAKER_01]: and and forgive me

[00:34:29] [SPEAKER_01]: the Star Wars reference, but

[00:34:30] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, Yoda speaks to Luke,

[00:34:32] [SPEAKER_01]: right? Yeah.

[00:34:33] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, luminous beings are

[00:34:35] [SPEAKER_01]: we not this crude matter?

[00:34:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Like that that no

[00:34:38] [SPEAKER_01]: that in Tolkien, that is so

[00:34:40] [SPEAKER_01]: true with the elves, like

[00:34:41] [SPEAKER_01]: they are not just

[00:34:44] [SPEAKER_01]: beings of flesh, right?

[00:34:47] [SPEAKER_01]: They there's this spiritual

[00:34:48] [SPEAKER_01]: component to them, this

[00:34:49] [SPEAKER_01]: this other dimension

[00:34:51] [SPEAKER_01]: that is not necessarily objective

[00:34:54] [SPEAKER_01]: or physical, but

[00:34:55] [SPEAKER_01]: there is certainly this sort of

[00:34:57] [SPEAKER_01]: metaphysical, spiritual,

[00:35:00] [SPEAKER_01]: telepathic dimension

[00:35:01] [SPEAKER_01]: to how elves communicate.

[00:35:03] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, even when elves

[00:35:04] [SPEAKER_01]: first found men, they couldn't

[00:35:06] [SPEAKER_01]: speak in language, but

[00:35:06] [SPEAKER_01]: but suddenly I can't remember

[00:35:09] [SPEAKER_01]: the elf we found him, but he's

[00:35:10] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, strumming on his guitar

[00:35:11] [SPEAKER_01]: or his harp and like the men

[00:35:12] [SPEAKER_01]: start to kind of understand

[00:35:14] [SPEAKER_01]: the intention of his mind,

[00:35:16] [SPEAKER_01]: right? And so they are able to

[00:35:17] [SPEAKER_01]: to communicate somewhat

[00:35:18] [SPEAKER_01]: telepathically there.

[00:35:19] [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, that I love that.

[00:35:21] [SPEAKER_01]: What did you call that again?

[00:35:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Osanway Quinta.

[00:35:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Osanway Quinta.

[00:35:25] [SPEAKER_01]: OK, that's awesome.

[00:35:27] [SPEAKER_00]: I'll set it in the chat

[00:35:28] [SPEAKER_00]: so you have the spelling.

[00:35:29] [SPEAKER_00]: This is this is exciting stuff.

[00:35:31] [SPEAKER_00]: I actually had to Google it

[00:35:32] [SPEAKER_00]: and I had to do three Google

[00:35:33] [SPEAKER_00]: searches to find the right

[00:35:34] [SPEAKER_00]: term because yeah,

[00:35:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Marilyn just throws his terms

[00:35:37] [SPEAKER_00]: at me and I'm like, I don't know

[00:35:38] [SPEAKER_00]: what that means.

[00:35:39] [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah.

[00:35:40] [SPEAKER_00]: And so I just I Google stuff

[00:35:43] [SPEAKER_00]: and that's it.

[00:35:43] [SPEAKER_00]: That's how we become more

[00:35:44] [SPEAKER_01]: hounds. Exactly.

[00:35:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Those those token scholars,

[00:35:47] [SPEAKER_01]: they can be a little intimidating.

[00:35:48] [SPEAKER_01]: They can they know their stuff.

[00:35:50] [SPEAKER_01]: They know their stuff.

[00:35:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they know a lot of stuff,

[00:35:52] [SPEAKER_00]: especially something from Morgoth's

[00:35:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Ring. Yes.

[00:35:55] [SPEAKER_00]: I've not read Morgoth's

[00:35:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Ring. I don't know about you.

[00:35:57] [SPEAKER_01]: I'd like to do two pages.

[00:35:59] [SPEAKER_01]: I think two or three pages.

[00:36:00] [SPEAKER_00]: OK, OK.

[00:36:01] [SPEAKER_00]: My goal is to eventually read

[00:36:02] [SPEAKER_00]: all of history of Middle

[00:36:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Earth. I'm not there yet.

[00:36:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Wow, that's a.

[00:36:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's a long term goal.

[00:36:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it's a long term goal.

[00:36:10] [SPEAKER_01]: That's a that's a lifelong goal

[00:36:12] [SPEAKER_01]: right there. Yeah.

[00:36:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:36:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, so that's kind of the two

[00:36:17] [SPEAKER_01]: the two oaths that we've talked

[00:36:19] [SPEAKER_01]: about thus far, you know, kind

[00:36:20] [SPEAKER_01]: of the oath of Feyenoordesans

[00:36:22] [SPEAKER_01]: and how that leads to the doom

[00:36:23] [SPEAKER_01]: of Bandos and the Noldor are

[00:36:25] [SPEAKER_01]: there in Middle Earth or sort

[00:36:26] [SPEAKER_01]: of doomed there.

[00:36:27] [SPEAKER_01]: The second oath there is

[00:36:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Thingol, you know, no more

[00:36:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Quenya that we have a band

[00:36:33] [SPEAKER_01]: on that.

[00:36:33] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'd say there's one more oath

[00:36:35] [SPEAKER_01]: here that comes into play in

[00:36:36] [SPEAKER_01]: this chapter.

[00:36:37] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's in the very last

[00:36:38] [SPEAKER_01]: paragraphs that Tolkien seemed

[00:36:40] [SPEAKER_01]: to kind of throw into this

[00:36:41] [SPEAKER_01]: chapter.

[00:36:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Gladrile is visiting Finrod

[00:36:43] [SPEAKER_01]: back at Nargothrond.

[00:36:44] [SPEAKER_01]: And she's like, hey, how come

[00:36:46] [SPEAKER_01]: you're not married yet?

[00:36:47] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, like, right, you know,

[00:36:49] [SPEAKER_01]: that's what we always ask.

[00:36:51] [SPEAKER_01]: We do. Yeah.

[00:36:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. You're single and she's

[00:36:53] [SPEAKER_01]: single. Why don't you get

[00:36:54] [SPEAKER_01]: together? So.

[00:36:57] [SPEAKER_01]: And Finrod kind of has this

[00:36:58] [SPEAKER_01]: foresight into the future.

[00:37:00] [SPEAKER_01]: And he's like, you know what?

[00:37:01] [SPEAKER_01]: There's some there's some

[00:37:02] [SPEAKER_01]: future oath that I'm going to

[00:37:04] [SPEAKER_01]: have to be free to make.

[00:37:07] [SPEAKER_01]: And and and so he's like, I

[00:37:09] [SPEAKER_01]: can't be wed now so that I can

[00:37:10] [SPEAKER_01]: go ahead and make that oath

[00:37:12] [SPEAKER_01]: and spoiler alert that oath is

[00:37:14] [SPEAKER_01]: going to be with Baron

[00:37:16] [SPEAKER_01]: in helping Baron to reclaim

[00:37:18] [SPEAKER_01]: one of the Silmarils so that

[00:37:20] [SPEAKER_01]: he can win the head of Luthien.

[00:37:21] [SPEAKER_01]: So you come all the way back

[00:37:23] [SPEAKER_01]: full circle of what Melian has

[00:37:24] [SPEAKER_01]: already known that the fate of

[00:37:25] [SPEAKER_01]: art is tied to these Silmarils

[00:37:27] [SPEAKER_01]: and even Finrod and his own

[00:37:30] [SPEAKER_01]: personal journey and this oath

[00:37:31] [SPEAKER_01]: this future oath that he's going

[00:37:33] [SPEAKER_01]: to have to make is tied

[00:37:35] [SPEAKER_01]: back into those Silmarils.

[00:37:37] [SPEAKER_01]: And plus it also helps that the

[00:37:38] [SPEAKER_01]: elf that he loved didn't come

[00:37:40] [SPEAKER_01]: to Middle Earth.

[00:37:41] [SPEAKER_01]: She stayed over there in Valinor.

[00:37:43] [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, you know,

[00:37:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Finn, he's got his high school

[00:37:47] [SPEAKER_00]: sweetheart waiting for him.

[00:37:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:37:49] [SPEAKER_01]: She's all the way back there.

[00:37:50] [SPEAKER_01]: He's living the bachelor life

[00:37:51] [SPEAKER_01]: and he's going to help out Baron.

[00:37:54] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, she was he was a

[00:37:56] [SPEAKER_00]: skater boy.

[00:37:57] [SPEAKER_00]: She said see you later, boy.

[00:37:58] [SPEAKER_00]: And and that was that

[00:38:00] [SPEAKER_00]: that was that man.

[00:38:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, man.

[00:38:03] [SPEAKER_01]: If if any of your listeners get

[00:38:04] [SPEAKER_01]: that reference, then we'll know

[00:38:05] [SPEAKER_01]: that that's there.

[00:38:06] [SPEAKER_01]: There are generation.

[00:38:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, if I can see the analytics

[00:38:09] [SPEAKER_00]: on Red Circle, they are

[00:38:11] [SPEAKER_00]: absolutely our generation.

[00:38:13] [SPEAKER_00]: They are 30 to 37 or whatever.

[00:38:16] [SPEAKER_00]: That's awesome.

[00:38:17] [SPEAKER_01]: That's awesome.

[00:38:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, everyone, it's it's been

[00:38:20] [SPEAKER_00]: a lot of fun.

[00:38:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Aaron, any other thoughts

[00:38:23] [SPEAKER_00]: on this chapter before we close

[00:38:24] [SPEAKER_00]: it out?

[00:38:25] [SPEAKER_01]: No, I don't think so.

[00:38:27] [SPEAKER_01]: I just well, actually,

[00:38:29] [SPEAKER_01]: let me just say one.

[00:38:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Galadriel and Melyon, I wish

[00:38:32] [SPEAKER_01]: we had more of that relationship

[00:38:34] [SPEAKER_01]: because you see Galadriel,

[00:38:36] [SPEAKER_01]: she's a powerhouse, right?

[00:38:38] [SPEAKER_01]: She speaks up with

[00:38:39] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, with all of the stuff

[00:38:41] [SPEAKER_01]: that's going on before they leave

[00:38:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Valinor.

[00:38:43] [SPEAKER_01]: She wants to have kingdoms of her

[00:38:45] [SPEAKER_01]: own, which eventually she will.

[00:38:47] [SPEAKER_01]: But this she's able to grapple

[00:38:49] [SPEAKER_01]: come to Melyon and that

[00:38:51] [SPEAKER_01]: tutelage, I think from one of

[00:38:53] [SPEAKER_01]: the Mayar who is living in

[00:38:54] [SPEAKER_01]: this in this physical realm,

[00:38:56] [SPEAKER_01]: I think tempers her a lot.

[00:38:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. And I just wish that we

[00:39:01] [SPEAKER_01]: could explore more of

[00:39:03] [SPEAKER_01]: a Maya mentor

[00:39:05] [SPEAKER_01]: to to a first age Galadriel.

[00:39:08] [SPEAKER_01]: I just that's a missed opportunity

[00:39:09] [SPEAKER_01]: in my book and I would really love

[00:39:11] [SPEAKER_01]: to have died for on that.

[00:39:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we can ask for a spin off

[00:39:14] [SPEAKER_00]: after rings of power.

[00:39:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, absolutely.

[00:39:16] [SPEAKER_01]: If they can get rights to the

[00:39:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Silmaril, Silmarillion.

[00:39:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe one day.

[00:39:20] [SPEAKER_00]: I think I think we might have to

[00:39:21] [SPEAKER_00]: go one more generation down for

[00:39:23] [SPEAKER_00]: that. Yeah, exactly.

[00:39:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.

[00:39:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, thanks everyone for listening.

[00:39:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Aaron, thanks for coming.

[00:39:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Can you tell everyone again where

[00:39:32] [SPEAKER_00]: they can find you?

[00:39:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, head on over to the Lore of

[00:39:35] [SPEAKER_01]: the Rings podcast.

[00:39:36] [SPEAKER_01]: We're on Spotify,

[00:39:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Apple podcast, anywhere where

[00:39:39] [SPEAKER_01]: you listen to podcasts.

[00:39:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Also Instagram, Facebook, just

[00:39:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Lore of the Rings podcast.

[00:39:44] [SPEAKER_01]: You'll find me there and

[00:39:46] [SPEAKER_01]: look forward to Wandering

[00:39:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Middle Earth with you over

[00:39:49] [SPEAKER_01]: on the Lore of the Rings podcast.

[00:39:51] [SPEAKER_01]: And John, thank you for letting

[00:39:52] [SPEAKER_01]: me wander Middle Earth with

[00:39:53] [SPEAKER_01]: with you today.

[00:39:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Of course, I any time, if

[00:39:56] [SPEAKER_00]: you ever want to cover another

[00:39:56] [SPEAKER_00]: chapter, you just send me an

[00:39:58] [SPEAKER_00]: email.

[00:39:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I love I love these bite

[00:40:00] [SPEAKER_01]: size.

[00:40:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Let's let's focus on one Silmarillion

[00:40:02] [SPEAKER_01]: chapter. So yeah, I probably

[00:40:04] [SPEAKER_01]: will. This has been fun.

[00:40:05] [SPEAKER_00]: All right. Thanks, Aaron.

[00:40:06] [SPEAKER_00]: See you soon.

[00:40:07] [SPEAKER_00]: All right. Thanks, John.

[00:40:08] [SPEAKER_00]: As always, that was a lovely

[00:40:10] [SPEAKER_00]: conversation with Aaron from Lore

[00:40:11] [SPEAKER_00]: of the Rings. I hope everyone will

[00:40:12] [SPEAKER_00]: go check out Aaron's podcast.

[00:40:14] [SPEAKER_00]: For now, I want to talk to you

[00:40:15] [SPEAKER_00]: about what's coming next on the

[00:40:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Lorehounds feed.

[00:40:18] [SPEAKER_00]: We are in mid August

[00:40:20] [SPEAKER_00]: and I am recording this in the

[00:40:21] [SPEAKER_00]: past. So if I get some things

[00:40:22] [SPEAKER_00]: missing, you know why.

[00:40:24] [SPEAKER_00]: For now, I know that there's

[00:40:26] [SPEAKER_00]: this episode this week.

[00:40:28] [SPEAKER_00]: You should have already heard all

[00:40:30] [SPEAKER_00]: our coverage of House of the

[00:40:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Dragon and the Acolyte.

[00:40:33] [SPEAKER_00]: And coming soon is our coverage of

[00:40:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Rings of Power.

[00:40:35] [SPEAKER_00]: So make sure that you check out

[00:40:37] [SPEAKER_00]: our full breakdown of both

[00:40:39] [SPEAKER_00]: the teaser and the San Diego

[00:40:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Comic Con trailer.

[00:40:43] [SPEAKER_00]: You can find those both on

[00:40:45] [SPEAKER_00]: this feed and in the

[00:40:47] [SPEAKER_00]: main Lorehounds feed, which you

[00:40:48] [SPEAKER_00]: can find in the link tree in

[00:40:49] [SPEAKER_00]: the show notes.

[00:40:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Marilyn Arpukila will be joining

[00:40:51] [SPEAKER_00]: us for all of our coverage of

[00:40:53] [SPEAKER_00]: The Rings of Power.

[00:40:54] [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to be doing a main

[00:40:55] [SPEAKER_00]: podcast, maybe a feedback

[00:40:57] [SPEAKER_00]: podcast, depending on volume

[00:40:58] [SPEAKER_00]: and definitely a Lorecast that is

[00:41:01] [SPEAKER_00]: going to be exclusive to

[00:41:02] [SPEAKER_00]: subscribers on Patreon and

[00:41:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Supercast and our season

[00:41:05] [SPEAKER_00]: pass. So the season pass should

[00:41:06] [SPEAKER_00]: already be launched.

[00:41:07] [SPEAKER_00]: That's in the show notes.

[00:41:09] [SPEAKER_00]: You can get basically the

[00:41:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Patreon or Supercast treatment

[00:41:12] [SPEAKER_00]: for just Rings of Power content

[00:41:14] [SPEAKER_00]: for 10 bucks flat fee.

[00:41:15] [SPEAKER_00]: So you don't have to worry

[00:41:16] [SPEAKER_00]: about recurring subscriptions or

[00:41:18] [SPEAKER_00]: you can be with us recurring

[00:41:19] [SPEAKER_00]: and for as little as five bucks

[00:41:20] [SPEAKER_00]: a month, you can get all of our

[00:41:22] [SPEAKER_00]: coverage of every other thing

[00:41:23] [SPEAKER_00]: we're covering.

[00:41:24] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure what else is coming

[00:41:26] [SPEAKER_00]: out on the Lorehounds network

[00:41:27] [SPEAKER_00]: right now, because again, this is

[00:41:28] [SPEAKER_00]: in the past. But please check out

[00:41:30] [SPEAKER_00]: all our affiliates like Rings and

[00:41:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Rituals, Walshift, Dust,

[00:41:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Radioactive Ramblings, Properly

[00:41:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Howard in the show notes.

[00:41:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Check the link tree.

[00:41:38] [SPEAKER_00]: And I just need to do our

[00:41:40] [SPEAKER_00]: thank yous before we head out of

[00:41:41] [SPEAKER_00]: here. Our Discord server

[00:41:43] [SPEAKER_00]: boosters are Narls, Aaron Kay,

[00:41:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Taylor the Thriller, Dork of

[00:41:46] [SPEAKER_00]: the Ninjas, Dove 71,

[00:41:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Captain Jinji 56,

[00:41:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Athena A, Loremasters,

[00:41:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Submarsion, Michael G,

[00:41:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Michelle E, David W,

[00:41:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Brian Pede, S.C., Peter

[00:41:57] [SPEAKER_00]: OH, Bettina W, Adam S,

[00:41:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Nancy M, Dove 71,

[00:42:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Brian 8063, Frederick H,

[00:42:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Sarah L, Gareth C, Eric F,

[00:42:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Matthew M, Sarah M, DJ

[00:42:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Miwa, Andre B, Kwon Yu,

[00:42:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Dead Eye Jedi Bob, Nathan T,

[00:42:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Alex V, Aaron T,

[00:42:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Sub-Zero, Aaron Kay,

[00:42:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Dali V, Mothership 61,

[00:42:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Narls, Kathy W,

[00:42:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Stuart B, Jeffrey B,

[00:42:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Elisa U, and Adrienne.

[00:42:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks, everyone.

[00:42:26] [SPEAKER_00]: It's always a pleasure to talk

[00:42:28] [SPEAKER_00]: talking and we will see you on

[00:42:30] [SPEAKER_00]: the next Silmarillion story.

[00:42:32] [SPEAKER_00]: The Lorehounds podcast is

[00:42:33] [SPEAKER_00]: produced and published by The

[00:42:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Lorehounds. You can send

[00:42:36] [SPEAKER_00]: questions and feedback and

[00:42:37] [SPEAKER_00]: voicemails at thelorehounds.com

[00:42:39] [SPEAKER_00]: slash contact.

[00:42:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Get early and ad free access

[00:42:43] [SPEAKER_00]: to all Lorehounds podcasts

[00:42:44] [SPEAKER_00]: at patreon.com slash The Lorehounds.

[00:42:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Any opinions stated are ours

[00:42:48] [SPEAKER_00]: personally and do not reflect

[00:42:49] [SPEAKER_00]: the opinion of or belong to any

[00:42:50] [SPEAKER_00]: employers or other entities.

[00:42:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for listening.