The Acolyte – S01E08 – The Acolyte

[00:00:01] Okay, David, this is where we're supposed to choose a side. Green or black? John, my soul is as black as night. Your turn. I am black for life. So, we're not fighting? I thought this is where HBO wanted us to, like, pick sides and fight and stuff.

[00:00:24] Don't worry, I'm sure we'll find plenty to disagree about on the pod. But we seem to agree on one thing. We both really like this show. The politics, the drama, the lore. It was made for The Lorehounds. And since we just finished recapping season one,

[00:00:38] we couldn't be more ready to defend our black queen in the Dance of the Dragons. And with the season pass option in Supercast, listeners can get early ad-free access to each weekly scene-by-scene deep dive, plus our custom show guide with all the characters and connections.

[00:00:53] See you in The Lorehounds podcast feed each week for our dragonfire hot, but probably positive, takes. The Lorehounds House of the Dragon coverage is also safe for team green consumption. Side effects may include a deeper understanding of dragon lore, a hardened conflict with itself,

[00:01:06] and an inescapable urge to read the book Fire and Blood by George R.R. Martin. Dragon seeds may experience burning. Alicia here, representing both the Star Wars Canon Timeline podcast and The Lorehounds today, because I'm afraid John is under the weather.

[00:01:37] But fear not, I will walk you through the recap and lore breakdown, talking about those cameos as well. And then we still have one more finale mailbag episode to go before this Star Wars Canon Timeline podcast, Lorehounds Acolyte crossover series comes to a close.

[00:01:52] Once John's feeling better, we'll get his takes on the finale and season as a whole as we talk through all the thoughts and theories you guys have been sending in. After that, Lorehounds listeners are released from the Star Wars Canon Timeline podcast spoiler policy

[00:02:07] and you all have a spoilerific wrap-up episode coming your way on The Lorehounds feed too. I promise it will be an especially fun one. Listeners to my silo coverage have an idea of what to expect.

[00:02:18] I have a lot of plans for the Star Wars Canon Timeline podcast feed too, from a chat about the old Republic myths with Marilyn, to a walkthrough of the High Republic Phase 2 books with John and Jean,

[00:02:32] to dives into the origin stories of key characters in the prequel films like Mace Windu, Count Dooku, Jango Fett, and Maul. Stay tuned until the end of this episode to hear what's going on with all of the feeds coming up,

[00:02:45] including an opportunity for Lorehounds listeners that's closing at the end of the month. But first, we're here to talk about The Acolyte, the season finale of The Acolyte. Yep, the episode got the same title as the show so you know it's the important one.

[00:02:59] And for the record, this was recorded on July 20th, 2024 and everything I'm saying now is true at the moment to the best of my knowledge but may need to be updated later as the canon continues to get filled in. And apologies, this one is coming just slightly late.

[00:03:15] I actually recorded the entire thing yesterday and then when I went to edit it, realized it was a blank file so you know sometimes podcasting is fun like that. Now just at the top, my overall thoughts on the episode.

[00:03:28] I won't get too much into reviews because I'll talk through that with John when we get to record the feedback episode. But yeah, I'm very happy. I think that this was a satisfying end to the season. I got more answers than I dared to hope.

[00:03:43] Yeah, of course I will riot in a semi-respectful way if there's no season two. I thought the Plagueis cameo was perfect. Obviously we're going to talk about that in this episode and I think that the Yoda cameo was well handled too.

[00:03:56] I wasn't sure I wanted that but I think that they did it in just the right way. I would urge people to stop comparing this show to House of the Dragon. I know that they're out at the same time but I just think it does a disservice

[00:04:10] to both formats because they are just two different kinds of shows. I do think that this is some of the best writing that we've seen in Star Wars personally. It asks us to ponder complex questions and maybe these questions are more complex

[00:04:26] than some of the audience is ready for in this particular franchise. But it does combine this moral grayness with peak Star Wars camp. We've got aliens, we've got compelling new characters that echo what we love about this galaxy

[00:04:38] and of course some of the most epic lightsaber fights in the series. So I've enjoyed every second of watching and analyzing this show. Now today for this episode in absence of Jon I'm going to let showrunner Hedlund weigh in instead via post finale interview she's given.

[00:04:53] And don't worry I know some of you think showrunners talk too much. I steered clear of anything that might be over explainery or there were some things that could be light potential spoilers for a season two if that happens

[00:05:08] in the Collider interview I'm going to be referring to. Just a heads up on that. But the quotes that I've sprinkled here throughout this recap is just some insight into Leslie Hedlund's perspective as a showrunner while creating certain characters or beats

[00:05:23] because some of you I know like me also enjoy this insight and it just helps us to think about the creative process and everything that's involved in it overall. So just to start this quote comes from Hedlund's interview with Star Wars.com

[00:05:40] and it's about her goal with the series overall. So I think this is a good place to begin. She said one aspect that I was very interested in exploring in the show was depending on the way

[00:05:50] you look at it anyone can be the bad guy and depending on the way you look at it anyone can be the good guy. Nobody wakes up in the morning and thinks they're the villain.

[00:05:59] Everybody is doing what they think is either best for them or what's expected of them or trying to fit themselves in a particular paradigm or ideal that is important to the institution, family or place in the world that they find themselves in.

[00:06:13] Borrowing a quote from Mother Anastasia Hedlund adds it's really not about good or bad. It's about the power and who's allowed to use it. The theme of this show is duality and reflection so the good guys also have to admit the parts of them that are bad.

[00:06:27] I don't see the Jedi as antagonists. I see them as flawed and it was a story that I felt really excited to tell. And this is also one of the reasons why I particularly enjoy this show as Alicia speaking again.

[00:06:40] I just I do love exploring the nuances of morality and we'll talk more about what that is meant in this episode and in this series in particular. I do think though that it's important that we're able to empathize with antagonists in the stories we love

[00:06:58] because this teaches us important real world empathy skills. We need to be better at understanding why people do the things they do. And we also need to be able to admit that the people and institutions we look up to are inevitably flawed.

[00:07:11] Nobody or nothing is perfect and blind idealization is dangerous to ourselves and to those that we're idealizing because this doesn't challenge them to get better or to take hard looks at themselves and where they may be swerving from their good intentions.

[00:07:31] Do also keep in mind when it comes to the Acolyte that this is the story or at least a link in the chain of the story of why the Jedi fall. And yep, spoiler time.

[00:07:42] Now that we've reached the last piece of canon content in Era 3, I can tell you the title of Era 4 is Fall of the Jedi.

[00:07:51] And this is you know this prequel series and the Clone Wars show and a bunch of books and comics and other things we'll talk about. But first, wrapping up the Acolyte. I've divided this episode breakdown into four arcs.

[00:08:05] So what I'm going to do is I'm going to recap each arc briefly and then pause to dive deeper into that arc with a little commentary and lore. So Episode 8 again called the Acolyte.

[00:08:17] This is the only non-paired title in the series but I would say that makes sense because it's sort of the result the pulling together of all of the ideas and the titles before it. The credited writer for this episode is Jason Mikaloff.

[00:08:31] He also was one of the credited writers on Episode 2. And the director was Hanel Culpepper who was the director of Episode 6 which is where this one basically picks up from. So, so ends the tale of Varosha and Mayho Anasea for now. Heavy is the Helmet.

[00:08:51] Picking up where Episode 6 left off, Osha is trying on the Kratos's helmet. Chimera discovers her in the throes of an upsetting vision and she lashes out with unknown power turning his eyes black as she unwittingly invades his head in the way her mother could.

[00:09:06] But he struggles through it to remove her helmet and free her from what she's seeing which she thinks is her sister holding a lightsaber but killing Saul without it. She knows where to find them and she's not telling Chimera but he's welcome to tag along.

[00:09:21] So this first interaction we see here, this is foreshadowing what we see at the end of the episode where she bleeds the Kyber crystal. We'll talk about what that means but where she turns her Saul's lightsaber red.

[00:09:35] And we're seeing that you know Osha's emotions are very strong and tied to this power that Chimera has seen but we haven't necessarily seen as much on screen until this end of the series especially this finale.

[00:09:51] So Sub-Zero, I just want to pull up one item from the feedback that's relevant here. Sub-Zero said I think it demonstrated that she has Force Witch powers and combined with traditional Dark Side powers it would make her extremely dangerous.

[00:10:06] So I think that's indeed what it is because you know she's going to be, we talked previously about the unpredictability and how that can throw off the Jedi who are very institutionalized and used to doing things in a certain way.

[00:10:21] So this makes her, yeah, makes her and Chimera an interesting duo indeed as if you don't know the internet will tell you very quickly. So this was indeed a great moment for Oshimere shippers.

[00:10:36] People are talking about the whole quote-unquote man-wife thing of like where he lets her take the lead this episode which I don't really love that concept. It is a little sexist to me but whatever.

[00:10:47] But for me the moment of real romance here at the beginning of the episode is where he's struggling through her lashing out with power at him

[00:10:55] to help her out of that helmet and of course when we get it off we see the reflection of that red lightsaber in her eyes. But she thinks that she was seeing a vision of her sister. She doesn't realize what we learn at the end of the episode.

[00:11:10] She was seeing a vision of herself which technically I guess we're supposed to understand her sister and herself are the same thing. That's definitely something we need a little more clarity on.

[00:11:22] I think when Saul says they're the same person we don't, yeah does that mean that we know they're twins of course but we know that further they have the same force fingerprint which is just not a thing that twins should have.

[00:11:39] So it does seem that they are two halves of a whole complementing each other and that definitely sets up an interesting situation for the next season where they basically swap places by the end of this episode.

[00:11:55] And of course as Osha and Chimera leave the unknown planet this is where we get our glimpse of our Sithy cave creeper friend. And he's looking exactly as I would have hoped from legends granted maybe a little bit older but I suspect maybe he's looking into some rejuvenation.

[00:12:15] Now this is we all suspected it it's beneficially confirmed this is Darth Plagueis and Darth Plagueis is an important character from legends continuity. He's the most important Sith coming out of this age and was the master of the most important Sith of the next age.

[00:12:35] So it was very exciting to see him show up and also he's been confirmed in canon most famously in the prequel trilogy where one character tells another character the tale the tragedy of Darth Plagueis the wise.

[00:12:52] Which is I mean well if you don't know that you can look it up on YouTube. John also recited it in his best Sith voice on our bonus episode midseason.

[00:13:04] But yeah this is a character who again like a lot of things confirmed in canon but not fleshed out in canon the way he is in legends so we don't know still don't know what aspects of him they're going to take over

[00:13:20] but one thing that people were afraid that they might change is the fact that he is a mune that's his species he's not a human he's immune and that's what we got we got immune he looks exactly as I would have hoped.

[00:13:32] In legends his real name is Hego Damask the second and he is a member like most of his species of the intergalactic banking clan.

[00:13:42] Now this is a clan from the El Barrio sector of the Outer Rim and their home planet is Scipio which is an ice planet with snowy mountains but they also colonized other planets in the sector like the more temperate Mune-list.

[00:13:58] And Plagueis' planet in in legends is the crystalline Migito.

[00:14:04] Plagueis yeah they munes in general they have big brains as you can see they're quite tall they have an average height of just under two meters long heads and they are especially good at math hence the whole banking thing.

[00:14:17] They one feature that they have that really caught my eye as soon as he showed up on screen here is they have the outer two fingers are a bit shorter than the others and I actually I don't know if this was like a detail in the Plagueis novel that I just you know read over and forgot because you know or if this is from some reference book but I looked it up and it's true that the mune are supposed to have the two outer fingers shorter so that's good attention to detail.

[00:14:43] One thing that's always been inconsistent with this species is the nose so we've seen anything from this very flat nose like nostril-less basically noseless face that we saw in this version to a much more defined nose with nostrils.

[00:15:00] I definitely prefer the version that we got in this show this is what I was hoping for and yeah glad to see it really need a second season for this and many other reasons.

[00:15:09] We know that Leslie Hedlund the showrunner wants to tell his story if given the chance so I really hope that that does happen.

[00:15:18] So yeah so Plagueis he's obviously he's a smart Sith I mean a lot of Sith are I have to say on the smart side and like many of the Sith that came before him he was quite the researcher.

[00:15:31] He the classic Sith theme he wanted immortality he wanted to find anything that would help him extend his lifespan cheat death basically so he's studying midichlorians, force dyads, mind transference.

[00:15:47] You can imagine that Ocean may whatever circumstances surrounded their birth whether he was involved or not we don't know. I tend to think not but we don't know yet he would be interested in any case for sure.

[00:16:00] So Leslie Hedlund the showrunner said to IndieWire about him it was important in the figures physicality and also the blocking of the shot to create the sense that Plagueis and the Sith aren't the armor clad visually imposing powerhouse villains we sometimes associate with the Sith.

[00:16:16] They're hiding out the Sith and this time are fighting for survival. Hedlund and her creative team wanted to infuse him with a sense of graceful horror and make it clear even at a glance that this is a monster who wants things.

[00:16:28] And I thought that he was completely CGI generated in this version if we get that second season they'll definitely do something with mocap or something like that so he can interact with people but this version was pure CGI and I thought they did a great job with like the way that the eyes just narrow it a little bit at the end as he was watching Osha and Chimera.

[00:16:48] Apparently this was a complete surprise to even the cast and most of the crew not the director of the episode but she got let in but yeah the cast when they saw this episode before they just saw a blank spot in the cave and only found out you know not long before the rest of us what was filling that blank spot.

[00:17:12] So yeah obviously a lot of people are wondering if he is Chimera's master and yeah of course that makes sense could well be.

[00:17:21] And then if that is the case and the question is has he sanctioned him taking on an acolyte you know is he interested in that so that they can find out information about the birth of these women or is Chimera taking on an acolyte behind his back to maybe train her up to help defeat him which is kind of basically the Sith way.

[00:17:47] Or just throwing out there another possibility that I'm leaning toward personally at the moment is maybe he's not Chimera's master at all maybe he's Chimera's rival.

[00:17:56] Now there is a Legends book not canon but Legends so we don't know which aspects of this book are going to be brought into canon but it's called Darth Plagueis it's a good book.

[00:18:08] I've already talked to Dead Eye Jedi Bob about it and we're gonna do an episode about that in the Star Wars Canon timeline podcast feed in a couple months basically breaking it down and yeah what's in the book and what we think they might bring into canon.

[00:18:23] One of the characters in this book is a Sith wannabe I suppose called Venomous and Venomous he's not human like Chimera he is a Bith and the Bith are like the insect-y looking species with these face folds.

[00:18:42] And that does play a role in the story because Tenebrous the master of Plagueis and Venomous is also a Bith and so Plagueis thinks like oh well maybe Venomous is Tenebrous's secret son and you know or in any case feels a bit left out for being a different species.

[00:19:05] So that does play a role but again yeah that's all Legends so in canon could be human we still don't know what's going on with Chimera he's made references to being around for a long time maybe this isn't even his original body.

[00:19:19] But yeah Tenebrous is confirmed in canon Venomous is not yet but one very interesting skill Venomous has is levitation and that's something we've seen Chimera do a couple times including once this episode.

[00:19:34] So we'll see we'll see just throwing that all out there for your information you decide what you what your theory is going into season two but in any case I'm more convinced than ever that the unknown planet is Baldemic from that novel.

[00:19:48] It's just yeah it just matches up perfectly with the cortosis and the landscape and the fact that Plagueis is there now especially so. I do want to point out though since I've acknowledged that it is known that Plagueis' apprentice coming out of this age is Darth Sidious.

[00:20:04] I've seen a lot of speculation online and I would just want to point out that Sidious is in canon according to the Timelines reference book his birth year was 84 BBY.

[00:20:15] Now that's slightly retconned from Legends where they said 82 BBY on the Keeper of the Holocrons blog but yeah that's barely any change in any case that's 50 years after the events of the Acolyte and I'm pretty sure Sidious is not alive at this point in the timeline especially not as an adult.

[00:20:33] I think that Leslie Hedlund if she gets the chance to tell Plagueis' story she's more interested in talking about his rise you know rather than that would be more toward the end of his story.

[00:20:45] Okay moving on to the second arc in the episode we're going to swap to the other side of the yin to the yang the yang to the yin not sure which is which at this point but on Sol's ship Sol says that he's going to let Vernestra know to meet them on Brendok's because he wants to show her the virgins and the twins there side by side so that he can prove that that something unnatural happened.

[00:21:15] With their birth and that their mother was scary powerful and he hopes that this will exonerate him with a Jedi but I also I think probably with himself from the fact that he killed their mother.

[00:21:25] But she and Pip they seem to be bonding which I'm happy about and she uses Pip to escape her bindings first and then she escapes in a smaller ship and she she decides to plunge into the debris of a ring around one of the moons of Brendock and that was for me one of the coolest visual experiences I've seen in Star Wars.

[00:21:50] I think like the coolest one I've seen since we saw the eye and and or. So he's just desperate now trying to follow her into the debris with his much larger ship I don't think he realized that Basel was on board.

[00:22:06] But at some point he starts locking into my ship and we don't know if he's going to shoot her or try to like tractor beam her in or something but Basel is not feeling the vibes and ends up sabotaging this control panel and both ships end up plummeting to the planet below but everyone ends up being okay.

[00:22:25] And all paths converge on Brendock and in the burned out remains of the witch's fortress the sisters reunite in their childhood bedroom and they confront their past they fight it out.

[00:22:38] Mirroring them Sol and Chimera have their own final confrontation and Saul ends up winning slicing through Chimera Sabre. So okay before we move on from there let's just go back and take a little deeper look at some of the details that happened during the sequence.

[00:22:56] So one thing that people are talking about online I see is that may before she escapes all ship she yells out see you in hell Jedi and just to point out that this is far from the first time that words been used in Star Wars I think the first time comes from the original trilogy when Han says it.

[00:23:12] And we've heard others use you know taking the hell name in vain there is actually a hell in Star Wars lore although it's more often referred to as chaos or the void but they say in legends at least they say that chaos is also called hell by the Corellians Corellia being a core world that is the home planet of Han Solo and also other popular later characters like Kira and Wedge Antilles and some non-humans too.

[00:23:40] But yeah it said that this is one of those concepts it's named in canon fleshed out more in legends we don't know what's being pulled over but the way it is in legends at least is chaos is where the darksiders go when they die and basically they get to just be miserable forever stewing in their losses in the void.

[00:23:59] But like the hell that we talk about in the real world not everyone believed that chaos was a real place for example Plagueis did not.

[00:24:10] According to the Naboo people who we've talked about that's Jar Jar's planet and where we're going to meet a Queen Amidala according to their mythology they say that chaos is a pit held back by six impenetrable gates.

[00:24:25] So this is a motif you see sometimes popping up in Star Wars stories when there's somewhere really scary and there'll be six gates around it.

[00:24:33] So yeah I love that like I said that Mei is bonding with Pip now the kind of the way Osha must have once upon a time you know I called her resetting him the most evil thing that she's done and I think that yeah this is just part of their maybe there's a sort of ebb and flow between the sisters in terms of you know dark sidedness light sidedness.

[00:24:54] Or maybe she just realized how useful Pip is too.

[00:24:58] But the interesting thing is by the end of this episode Mei like Pip her memories also wiped so they're going into this new situation side by side in the same sort of state where they've lost a lot and but they're also they also have a clean slate so they're going to be building their story from here together.

[00:25:19] So that's another thing I really want to see.

[00:25:21] So yes this is also when Osha is using her mech neck skills to get into the witch's fortress and she's like well the only way in is to do this or to climb up the mountain referring to Sol of course and Chimera is like oh really and then we hear his voice echo away.

[00:25:37] That was him I think doing his levitation powers again to get in.

[00:25:41] And then yeah that mirrored fighting sequence was so cool first we see the sisters you know if they're the same person of course they're using the same moves on each other even though they've had different training and stuff they're just they think the same apparently.

[00:25:54] But then we also not only get like their movements mirroring each other but then the way that they're fighting ends up being mirrored in the fight that's going on between their masters.

[00:26:03] And it's also very noticeable this is a scene where it really stands out that the girls have swapped their color schemes you know that they're really swapping sides for the fight that's going on outside with Sol and Chimera I just want to point out that Chimera this time he is using jar Chi, which is using two sabers and so he's got the long saber and he's got the short one the show to, but he's not doing we talked about before that he did to talk about before when he killed Jackie he did something called a flash and slash.

[00:26:34] And yeah we didn't see him do anything like that this time you know we talked about how that's considered a somewhat dishonorable move.

[00:26:43] But if anyone actually did to talk about this time it was Saul, he did the unbalancing block move, which is where you're you have your sabers locked with someone like we saw here.

[00:26:56] And then you know he suddenly turned his saber off and that through Chimera off balance and that's how he was able to come around and surprise him and slice his saber off.

[00:27:06] So yeah it's considered dishonorable to do a move like that but I also can we really blame him like if if you're fighting a Sith and or a wannabe Sith or whatever Chimera is.

[00:27:19] How, where do you have to draw the lines for yourself in terms of you know what you do or don't do to stay alive, and to end this fight in your favor.

[00:27:29] Just one of the many gray questions that this show asks us and I'll let you ponder over a quick break, and then we'll be back to talk about the final confrontation and the denouement, and what to expect from the channels in the coming weeks and months.

[00:27:46] See you on the other side. Okay, let's get into the final confrontation.

[00:28:12] So given the chance to execute Saul with his own weapon, Mae tosses his lightsaber away because she no longer hungers for revenge. She wants justice and she wants Saul to admit what he did to the High Council.

[00:28:24] But Saul he admits to her killing their mother not realizing that Osha walks in hearing this with shocked eyes, and Saul turns to her and instead of apologizing, he's adamant that he did the right thing to protect the twins.

[00:28:40] And this confession it pushes Osha over the edge. She trusted him and he lied to her face for 16 years, raising her to believe his version of the truth and blame everything on her sister.

[00:28:51] And of course she obviously had no idea about the killing her mother part. So she tells him to stop talking and when he doesn't she stops him from talking.

[00:28:58] Her anger not only leads her to force choke her former Jedi Master to death, but she without seeming to realize it channels that rage and despair into the kyber crystal of the lightsaber she's holding.

[00:29:10] Her father figures lightsaber and the lightsaber that killed her mother. And when she turns it on, the blue blade bleeds red.

[00:29:18] The stranger we all know as Chimera finally has what he wants a powerful acolyte and Osha makes a deal that she will train with him if he lets me go. And may agrees to a mind wipe so she can't find them erasing all memories of the last 16 years and of her sister.

[00:29:36] May returns to Coruscant with Jedi where she is not as much used to them as they'd hoped. And Osha returns to the unknown planet with Chimera where the two look out across the ocean toward their future with hands clasped around her new lightsaber.

[00:29:51] So I thought that this was personally a visually stunning end to the season. And of course, yes, there is gonna there is another scene we're going to talk about. We're going to talk about the whole Vernestra arc next.

[00:30:03] But just see how them standing next to each other hands clasped lightsaber between them looking out apparently, they were supposed to be looking out in that way, you know, giving you the sense of their equals, but it was Manny Jacinto his idea to reach out and hold hands.

[00:30:20] And I think that was a really nice touch. I agree that a kiss would have been too much at this point, but that just adds it's something to show. Osha may be giving herself over to this relationship for better or worse. And I'm sure a lot of people think for worse, but definitely a lot of people want to see this play out.

[00:30:39] Yeah, the fighting here was just spectacular. Overall, we got those yeah, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon influences, of course, Manny Jacinto's background and dance was certainly put to good use the whole thing felt like a dance together. Some of the most elegant fighting we've seen in Star Wars.

[00:30:56] So this is the part where Hedlund said she rewrote the finale because she thought there would be riding in the streets if there wasn't a final face off between Sol and Chimera after she saw Manny Jacinto screen tests and training. And she said that his level of performance actually raised her own game as well. She told Collider, Manny was giving this incredible performance all through this. So I'm like, how do I live up to this?

[00:31:21] My wife asked, What do you want to say? I was like, I want to say that people don't want me to exist as a gay woman, as a woman in this particular space working in this wild sandbox. There was a whole crew of people who believed in me. But deep down, I felt like I am unaccepted for who I am because of what I believe and in wanting to wield my power the way I'd like without having to answer to the legion of people that just exist out there.

[00:31:46] By the way, I think everybody feels this way. I think that's why it resonates when you're honest about yourself and you get personal about it. When he says I want freedom, that's what I want. I just want freedom. I want to be able to just be out there and be myself and be the type of artist I want to be without having to answer to anybody. That's why I feel so close to him.

[00:32:06] So she says that he is an avatar for her in some ways in the series. And I get that. And you know, John and I have made the jokes about I use the term villain fucker. But what I really mean if we're being a bit more serious about it is just the idea that there is some part in all of us that feels chafed by, you know, what we are expected to be.

[00:32:28] And this is why we can often identify with a character who we may call villains or antagonists or however you want to put it, but people who fight back against expectations. And now we definitely have a quite interesting one here. Not that we should, of course, emulate his behavior. Nobody's saying let's go murder people. But there's a reason why we are drawn to watching these characters on screen.

[00:32:59] Yeah. So we do see also both sisters in some way they give up a part of themselves, they sacrifice a part of themselves the way that their mother said that they would have to when they were talking about the ascension ceremony. And in other ways, they reclaim a new version of themselves that they want to be.

[00:33:15] So first we see Mae, she rejects this path that she had been on by throwing away the saber. She says, you know, I feel like I've been misled. This is not what I want. I want, I just want justice. In the end, she realizes all she ever wanted was justice.

[00:33:32] And also, of course, that throwing away the saber is a key moment. The camera zooms in on it. And at first I saw the casing crack and I thought, oh, another broken lightsaber. Okay, so we've got two lightsabers down fine. And I didn't realize until we saw that close up of her clenching the lightsaber.

[00:33:53] And you can see, of course, you see the crystal is morphing from blue to red. But also you can see that the crystals poking through the casing and touching her hand. And that is really key. Because the way that a Sith makes their saber in canon and this is a change from Legends and Legends they had synthetic crystals. And as I've talked about with John before, I love all the lore from legends about lightsaber colors, except for the Sith ones.

[00:34:23] For the canon version where they call it bleeding a kyber crystal. So we've had this described bleeding a kyber crystal number of times now I think the first time was actually in the Ahsoka canon novel from 2015 which is one of my favorite books definitely going to be talking about it on the canon timeline podcast.

[00:34:41] And then we've actually quote unquote seen it in some comic books like in a Darth Vader comic book and a Kylo Ren comic book and also in the Jedi survivor game we see a character bleed a kyber crystal. And the way that we see it done in these cases is they take the crystal out of the lightsaber, they bleed it in their hand I'll give you a quote that will define that a little better in just a second.

[00:35:06] And then they put the crystal back and when they turn it on the blade is red. So we haven't really seen this like progressive bleeding up of the blade like this but I think that that was a great visual choice a great storytelling choice and I really love that that's one of the visuals from the finale that's going to stick with me.

[00:35:22] So as far as what the bleeding of the crystal actually is I'm going to quote a canon reference book called Star Wars the secrets of the Sith. And this is a quote attributed to Darth Sidious who again is the main Sith of the next era. And he says since kyber crystals are naturally attuned to the light side of the force, those who serve the dark side must follow a different path.

[00:35:47] First, they must seize a pure crystal from the lightsaber of a Jedi they have vanquished in combat, for the saber of a Sith is not given, it is taken. Then, they must infuse that crystal with their pain, anger and hatred, bending it to their will. This corrupts the crystal, aligning it with the dark side and making it bleed with unbridled crimson power.

[00:36:09] The bleeding process can yield unpredictable results. Some crystals shatter, making their energies unstable and unpredictable. Others resist their realignment, refusing to be bent toward the darkness. Once a crystal has been properly bled, the primal power it releases becomes not only a deadly instrument in the hands of a Sith Lord, but a symbol of their true strength in the dark side.

[00:36:32] So yeah, this is obviously the moment that Chimera realizes that Osha is his true acolyte. And just in case anyone brings up a certain famous fallen Jedi from the next era, FYI I said that this was in a Darth Vader comic and people want to know why when we see the scene where this character falls in the movies, why the blade doesn't turn red then.

[00:36:57] And simply it's because these conditions have not been met. First, it has to be the saber of someone you've vanquished, which we see obviously that's what happened with Oshin Sol here. And you have to be touching the crystal, which is what we see. And also, well, I won't spoil that.

[00:37:14] But yeah, that's why in a certain film, when somebody does something, one of the worst things that anyone does in all of Star Wars, their saber doesn't immediately turn red because they haven't met those conditions at that point. It's something that they take care of later.

[00:37:30] And for the record, you can also reverse this process. It's called purifying the crystal. And after purification, the blade, the lightsaber blade will be white. So if you see someone with a white blade, which do turn up in Star Wars canon, then that means that they have purified crystals.

[00:37:48] We're definitely going to be talking about this in, uh, there's a short coming up in the next, I guess, the beginning of Era 5 actually, and then an even better book. And yeah, we find out what the killing without a weapon means. Apparently it's force choking, which is not even new at this point in the timeline. So I'm like, okay, I guess, I mean, is that's not a weapon, but poison is sure I'll go along with that.

[00:38:15] Um, I do still like the idea that destroying someone without a weapon is destroying their reputation. And we do obviously see that also happens with Sol. So I guess it does work both ways. But what I really want to call attention to here is that Osha demonstrates why turning someone away from a group or an institution for experiencing negative emotions can be dangerous.

[00:38:37] Because when this person feels like an outcast, they will seek belonging with other people who share these negative feelings. And that tends to amplify each other. And this is where we can get groups who can cause trouble like the Sith.

[00:38:52] But yeah, we get a we get a bunch of answers in the sequence, including we now know how May survived and got out. And that was actually foreshadowed or at least at least set up in Episode Three, when we saw Osha escaping also through these through these tunnels under the compound.

[00:39:12] But I just imagine May waiting by the tree for Osha for God knows how long, I really want to find out what happened after that between sitting next to the tree, how she got off the planet and when she met Chimera.

[00:39:25] But we see here a nice conclusion to maze arc for the season because we saw in their childhood that she was the one who was trying to block Osha from doing what she wanted to do. You know, she wanted to cling so hard that she didn't want Osha to make her own decisions because it meant leaving her and now at the end, may asks Osha what she wants.

[00:39:49] We get this emotional tender moments of wiping maze memory. And I think as much as Chimera proclaims to want to kill me, he does seem to have a real fondness for her. So I think he definitely sees Osha as an upgrade. And we also see that main Chimera both are seen genuinely genuinely worried about Osha worried that the Jedi will kill her like they killed their mother once they once a Jedi realize how powerful and the dark side she is.

[00:40:19] We get a little tidbit pointed out where the girls don't know who made up the rhyme that they have been saying back and forth all season. I like to think that they spontaneously generated it together. I've been noting that so far we've seen the rhyme going the same way, where in both cases, it was Osha giving Osha to may. And in this case, it was reversed this last so as may was I give you you you know,

[00:40:49] it was may giving me to Osha. So it really is Yeah, may is ultimately the one sacrificing the most of herself at this moment, I think it's going to be interesting to see if the if the scales rebalance in future seasons.

[00:41:04] And then maze left with the memories of an eight year old so 16 years of experience wiped away that's two thirds of her life. This is a mind wipe on par with the one that we talked about in Knights of the Old Republic in the game and the all you know, in the second era that Revan underwent. Otherwise, I don't think we've ever seen a mind wipe this powerful. So this is far from the first impressive force feat that we've seen Chimera do he's obviously quite

[00:41:33] strong. But I think it also makes a difference that may let him wipe her you know, she completely opened her mind to it. She didn't fight it at all. And also, it can't hurt from a real world psychology perspective that they're standing next to the bunta tree, which is the last thing she now remembers from when she was eight years old. So that just kind of lines up a nice continuity to make this work better.

[00:41:57] Alright, going into the fourth and last arc of the this episode that we're going to cover. That would be for Nestor's mission. So meanwhile, while all this is going on with everybody else, Senator Ray in court surprises for Nestor with a visit pressing his campaign for an external review of the Jedi.

[00:42:16] For Nesta finds out where Saul is, and she gathers Jedi Knights to seek a resolution to their investigation into the murders. And so she takes this team to Brenda, where she recognizes a presence in the force that she thought was that she did not realize was still alive. But she's too late. She finds Saul's body and realizes she has the opportunity to place the blame for the entire situation, pin all the murders on him, calling him a

[00:42:46] rogue Jedi who killed to keep the secret of the murder of the witches of Brenda. For Nesta hopes this will help the Jedi escape Senate intervention, led by loudly Jedi skeptical Senator Ray in court. And in the final scene, though, for Nesta turns to perhaps the only Jedi master alive more powerful than herself. And at more than 750 years old to for Nestor is about 115, likely more wise, Grandmaster Yoda.

[00:43:12] And the final words of the season are she says, Sorry to disturb you, Master. We need to talk.

[00:43:43] I do have to ask, so what happened to yours, Padawan, the Zygerian Tessie Loa? That needs to be answered because she was there in the beginning. And then she just wasn't involved in anything after that. So I want to see more of her. Was it like difficult makeup? Or why? Why did she seem to get cut out?

[00:44:00] A lot of people, of course, in the sequence are talking about what Senator rain court said, because a lot of people are identifying with it, you know, not just in terms of what he's saying about the Jedi, but how it translates to the real world. So just to quote him quickly, he says, I think the Jedi are a massive system of unchecked power, posing as a religion, a delusional cult that claims to control the uncontrollable.

[00:44:24] For Nesta response, we don't control the force. And he says, not the force your emotions, you project an image of goodness and restraint, but it's only a matter of time before one of you snaps. And when not if that happens, who will be strong enough to stop him?

[00:44:39] For Nestor says that's certainly an opinion and not one shared by the rest of the Senate. He responds, the majority of my colleagues can't imagine a galaxy without the Jedi and I can understand why when you're looking up to heroes, you don't have to face what's right in front of you.

[00:44:53] So yeah, incredible quote on point in this world and the real one. But I do wonder like, are his intentions as noble as they sound? Or is it possible that he's being influenced by anyone? That's another question I'm going to have going into season two.

[00:45:10] About the whole idea of the Jedi and people worrying about it being tarnished. Hedlund said to Collider, I think it's very clear that this is not a blanket Jedi are the bad guys. It's saying, I think that you have too much power. I'm not saying you guys are bad guys. I'm saying you have too much power. And it's something that no one is looking into right now. So yes, I have a vendetta against you.

[00:45:35] We also see Rey in court taunt for Finesstra about her tummy in hyperspace. And she responds, it's my head actually. So a reminder for all the non hyper public readers for Nestor gets hyperspace visions. This has been referenced obliquely a few times like this in the season. So I would expect it to play a role in season two.

[00:45:55] I also want to point out just because the Star Wars databank points it out that the Chancellor Drelak, who's the Chancellor leading the Senate meeting that Finesstra has, his species is a Tarsant. And we also saw a youngling Tarsant studying with Saul at the beginning of the series. But Drelak is like the third Tarsant diplomat or so featured in Star Wars.

[00:46:19] They're from a planet of the same name in the mid rim. They look like friendly monkeys with long beardy manes and a lot of long face and big nostrils, but we don't really know much about them. They seem to have an affinity for politics and diplomacy though.

[00:46:33] I think one of my favorite moments of this episode though, relating to Finesstra is when she shows up on Brendok and she realizes like, oh, I sense a presence in the force I didn't think was around anymore. And Chimier gets his helmet on real quick when he senses that she's there.

[00:46:50] I saw someone somewhere suggested that this might be the moment where Finesstra decided to lie about the whole situation. That maybe it's not so much about hiding about Jedi dying, but the bigger threat that she's worried about is them finding out about Chimier.

[00:47:09] Yeah, definitely. I think one of the foci of a season two that I would most look forward to is finding out more about her relationship with Chimier. But just to address people who are worried about changes in Finesstra, the character from the books that were set during her teen years.

[00:47:29] She was a Jedi prodigy as a teen and she was quite idealistic. And now she's apologizing to the body of her friend and she gives him a Jedi funeral pyre, even a floating Viking style one this time. And then she stabs his memory in the back.

[00:47:47] So she might not have been revealed to be a Sith, but her pile of secrets is definitely growing. And now she's enlisting May to help find Chimier, who she calls a pupil of mine before he turned evil, which is interesting wording because it echoes wording that Darth Vader's old master uses to describe him in the original trilogy.

[00:48:09] So yeah, Leslie Hedlund definitely subscribes to the sentiment Star Wars is like poetry. It rhymes.

[00:48:15] We'll talk about the main theory going around about the link between Finesstra and this former pupil as she calls him in the mailbag episode. But it does make me wonder if Plagueis and or Chimier might have already progressed in the mind transference experiments because Chimier did say at one point that he was a Jedi a long time ago, and he doesn't look old enough to have been a Jedi a long time ago. So many, many questions.

[00:48:42] Including just a rhetorical question, but I'm asking myself is Finesstra's betrayal of Saul maybe the biggest in the series? I feel it must feel that way to the soul patrol. Marilyn, let us know. To me, this is indeed the real killing of Saul without a weapon. Even though Finesstra she obviously feels terrible about it. She describes she says Saul is her friend to May and describes him as a kind, brilliant and compassionate man who did a terrible thing.

[00:49:12] Well, now Finesstra is doing a terrible thing as well. And what's worse, this is only making the Jedi sound even scarier to the Senate. So the only reason she would be throwing her friend under the bus like this is if she has bigger worries. So what does Finesstra know?

[00:49:26] Headland said about Finesstra to Collider.

[00:49:56] I think with Finesstra, her version of balance is that administrative keeping everything together, making sure that there's protection around the Jedi Order. She's seen a lot of people go through there being the age that she is. I think that also speaks to her age and I say maturity and her stature.

[00:50:18] I think that anyone who is part of that for as long as she is at some point evolves into it's like when a tree grows around something. I think it's just something where you wake up one morning and you realize you're that person, which is similar to how I've been reading it. You know that you often as people age, they grow more conservative.

[00:50:43] This is something that we see a slight tendency toward in scientific literature. And in this case, she's been through a lot and that can make you more protective of yourself, of your identity as a Jedi in this case. So yeah, I don't think it's out of character for Finesstra to be like this. But I do hope that she has a little bit, you know, that she comes out looking a little bit better next season. Fingers crossed on that.

[00:51:11] Another reason we need to see some too.

[00:51:13] And yeah, I was not at all surprised to see Yoda. I was glad that they kept it that minimal last final shot. We just saw the back of his head in his ears. This is clearly then who Vanessa contacted earlier in the episode. And in the next era, Yoda knows about the rule of two. I think he tells Mace Windu about it in the prequel trilogy. So maybe we're going to find out what he knows and how he knows it.

[00:51:43] I know some people are worried that this might like quote unquote, ruin Yoda. But I just have to say he's always been flawed and he's always he's participated in multiple cover ups in the past and the future from this point. But always he does these things with his heart in the right place. Not unlike Sol. But Yoda does have the extra wisdom of many centuries. He's already well into his 700s by the acolyte.

[00:52:07] We talked in depth about Yoda and his species in the Young Jedi Adventure season one episode if anyone wants more information on that. And we're going to talk about him more in the first character origins episode in era four.

[00:52:20] Now about the season two that I keep saying I want in terms of renewal prospects, we obviously don't have any word yet. I do think that there is a strong chance. Leslie Hedlund has said if you know people want it renewed what she asks people to do is you know talk it up online and tell more people to check it out and watch it.

[00:52:39] I do have to say that hashtag renew the acolyte has been trending on Twitter and threads since episode seven aired. So there is a lot of love for it. There's also obviously we've talked about it. We don't need to dwell on a lot of hate for it online. We just have to remember that the lovers and the haters are both just small slivers of the viewership.

[00:52:58] And there was a recent report that went around with viewing numbers and they said that the acolyte started as the strongest of the Star Wars shows and it fell off in the I think like 30 percent a week to 10 percent a week after that went up a little bit later. But we can't really judge these numbers. It was comparing them to shows that where they had 12 weeks of viewership numbers and there hasn't been 12 weeks for this show yet.

[00:53:25] So we're going to have to wait for that to make a final decision because of course you have to take into account I know several people are binge watching it right now because some people just prefer to consume media that way. So we'll see. But I think you know this is definitely been one of the most talked about shows online and that's not going to go unnoticed. I think our chances are quite good.

[00:53:47] And I think this is an important story to tell. You know we need to know the origin of Plagueis. Yeah and there's so much room for more good storytelling. So there is a San Diego Comic Con coming up next week and some people are hoping that maybe we'll get a renewal announcement there. I honestly think that might be a bit too soon. I think they're going to wait it out make us sweat a little bit longer. We do have D23 at the beginning of August.

[00:54:15] I still think maybe that's too soon. With Ahsoka we didn't get the season 2 renewal announcement until three months after the show stopped airing and that's pretty typical for other shows that I follow. So yeah we should just temper our expectations but I think that there is a good chance.

[00:54:33] Now as for what we'll be doing on our feeds now that the acolyte is done. First up there's going to be of course we're going to have the feedback episode where we get John's takes and we're going to hear from a lot of members of the community and all the different reactions to the entire season and final theories and all that fun stuff. And then we're going to have next week a season wrap up. It's going to be on the Lorehounds feed and the canon Padawan feed.

[00:55:01] And this is going to be a fun kind of game show style just to reflect on the season and the spoiler restrictions going to be completely removed. All Star Wars will be spoiled so if you haven't seen the animated series beware.

[00:55:15] The next Star Wars coverage in the Lorehounds feed. Well I think that I assume the guys will continue their film club when things are quieter. Things do seem to be quite busy for the next few months but the next big live action show for Star Wars is Skeleton Crew coming out late this year we don't know exactly when yet.

[00:55:36] This is Jude Law and it has a good cast. I just saw the list of directors for some of the episodes and that's looking really promising like the Daniels who did everything everywhere all at once Bryce Dallas Howard the director of Twisters. Yeah it looks like a good lineup but I don't know if we'll be doing weekly coverage because it is quite kid focused. We'll see I think it just depends how busy we are at the time and how it edges up with the holidays but definitely there's going to be some sort of

[00:56:06] coverage there. It will not be covered on the Star Wars Canon Timeline podcast live because it's much later in the timeline era seven. It's the same part of the timeline where the Mandalorian the Book of Boba Fett and Ahsoka take place. There will definitely be some Lorehounds coverage of it at least. No spoiler policy. We'll see what form the coverage takes as we get closer.

[00:56:28] And then of course in the meantime on the Star Wars Canon Timeline podcast the contents will be continuing. Episodes are now going to be released about every two weeks and so just released this week soon to be backdated to the Old Republic part of the timeline is the Sith Legends of the Old Republic episode looking at three episodes of the Visions animated anthology series.

[00:56:53] Next up on the Canon Timeline podcast feed in two weeks is going to be Canon Myths of the Old Republic with Marilyn. So it's gonna be more Sith information in there also some werewolves and a flood myth. Check the Canon Timeline podcast feed notes for which stories will be included. If you don't have time to read them all yourselves don't worry we will fill you in on what you need to know.

[00:57:14] And then following that there's going to be two more Visions episodes looking at the echoes of the Sith in the High Republic. There's gonna be mailbag episodes mixed in with those you're gonna hear from Bob again and we're also planning an episode covering the High Republic phase two books comics and short stories.

[00:57:33] So we're going to be covering phase two first because that's first chronologically in the timeline and so we'll come back and cover phase one later. Phase three again won't be complete until spring 2025. Also coming up soon there's a Young Jedi Adventures season two part one releases August 14th so sometime after that I think probably Bob and I will be talking about that new part of the season.

[00:57:58] And also like I said we're gonna be we're gonna do an episode about the Legends Darth Plagueis book because that seems quite relevant for everyone to know and it's a good book. So and then once we've done these flashback episodes we're caught up with the end of Era 3 the High Republic.

[00:58:17] Like I said this is the last piece of canon content in the High Republic the Acolyte. So it's time to start Era 4 and as I said at the beginning of the episode that is called the Fall of the Jedi that's what we've been setting up here.

[00:58:30] Era 4 includes the prequel movies and the Clone Wars show but before we get to these I'm going to dive into the origins of certain key characters one episode at a time. So there's gonna be an episode for Yoda, Dooku and Mace Windu, an episode for Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan, one for Maul, one for Jango Fett and the Mandalorians and a mini Ahsoka episode in there as well.

[00:58:54] So I will release in the not so distant future an Era 4 overview with more details about what exactly is going to be included in that and what the Era 4 content or coverage plan is going to look like for anyone who wants to follow along and watch, read or listen as we go as well.

[00:59:13] I mentioned that there was an opportunity for potential Lorehound subscribers that was closing at the end of the month so I just wanted to mention that quickly here and basically what that is is we've decided to close our $3 tier of subscribers on Patreon and Supercast just because the amount of bonus material we've been putting out for subscribers has gone up quite a lot and there's three of us to support now and all of that.

[00:59:37] So what this means is if you are in the $3 tier which is now called the Lore Founders tier by the end of July, so before August 1st, 2024, then you are grandfathered in and you can stay in that tier whether you do annual subscription or monthly subscription, you can stay there for as long as you want.

[00:59:56] If you leave the tier, if you stop being a subscriber and then you come back later, then you'll be asked to rejoin the next lowest level tier which is the $5 tier which we're now calling the Lorehounds tier.

[01:00:10] So just FYI that option is open to you until like I said August 1st is when it closes. Okay, well, on the rest of the network obviously the big news right now is all of the House of the Dragon coverage.

[01:00:28] Jon and I have made our plans to cover the new Deadpool and Wolverine movie on the Lorehounds feed the week after it comes out and Jon's going to be joining us for the opening of that episode as well. So looking forward to that.

[01:00:41] And yeah, well, I think since you're going to be getting another episode from Jon and I this weekend going through the mailbag, we can talk a bit more then about what else to expect in the near future on the network. That was enough news for now.

[01:00:54] But of course I can't let you go before we shout out our discord server boosters and lore masters. In honor of our Darth Sithi moonskin cave creeper the first melody is called Lurking.

[01:01:08] Thank you to our discord server boosters Gnarls, Aaron K, Tiller the Thriller, Dork of the Ninjas, Dove71, CaptainJinji56, and Athena Adjalea.

[01:01:20] And thank you especially to our lore masters, Samartian, Michael G, Michelle E, David W, Brian P, SC, Peter OH, Bettina W, Adam S, Nancy M, Dove71, Brian8063, Frederick H, Sarah L, Gareth C, Eric F, Matthew M, Sarah M, DJ Miwa.

[01:01:46] And of course we're going to reload the music. Our next song dedicated to Mae and her memory, Her Loss.

[01:01:55] Thank you Kwong Mew, DeadeyeJediBob, Nathan T, Alex V, Aaron T, Sub Zero, Aaron K, Dally V, Mothership61, Gnarls, Kathy W, Stuart B, Jeffrey B, Alisa U, and always last, Adrienne.

[01:02:19] Okay, thank you guys. See you shortly with Jon in tow for his final thoughts on the season and all of yours as well in that mailbag episode coming your way in the next few days.

[01:02:30] This is produced and published by the Lorehounds. You can send questions and feedback and voicemails at thelorehounds.com contact. Get early and ad free access to all Lorehounds podcasts at patreon.com slash the lorehounds and connect with us on Twitter at the lorehounds.

[01:02:48] Any opinions stated are ours personally and do not reflect the opinion of or belong to any employers or other entities. Thanks for listening. Okay, David, this is where we're supposed to choose a side, green or black. Jon, my soul is as black as night. Your turn.

[01:03:19] I am black for life. So we're not fighting? I thought this is where HBO wanted us to like pick sides and fight and stuff.

[01:03:27] Don't worry, I'm sure we'll find plenty to disagree about on the pod, but we seem to agree on one thing. We both really like this show. The politics, the drama, the lore. It was made for the Lorehounds.

[01:03:38] And since we just finished recapping season one, we couldn't be more ready to defend our black queen in the Dance of the Dragons. And with the season pass option in Supercast, listeners can get early ad free access to each weekly scene by scene deep dive.

[01:03:52] Plus our custom show guide with all the characters and connections. See you in the Lorehounds podcast feed each week for our dragonfire hot, but probably positive takes. The Lorehounds House of the Dragon coverage is also safe for team green consumption.

[01:04:05] Side effects may include a deeper understanding of dragon lore, a hardened conflict with itself, and an inescapable urge to read the book Fire and Blood by George R.R. Martin. Dragon seeds may experience burning. But of course, sooner!