David, John, and Marilyn complete their journey through the Earthsea Cycle, this time covering the final novel, The Other Wind. They discuss the inversion of power balances, the anthropology at the heart of LeGuin's work, and the reexamination of past works by their creators.
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Marilyn R. Pukkila, Research & Instruction Librarian Emerita, Colby College
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00:14 --> 00:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the book nook where the lorounds your guides to the archipelago of earth sea.
00:19 --> 00:19 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm John.
00:20 --> 00:21 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm Marilyn.
00:21 --> 00:26 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is our continuing coverage of our reading of the earth sea cycle by Ursula K. Lukewin.
00:27 --> 00:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, who else is here?
00:30 --> 00:31 [SPEAKER_00]: The archmage has returned.
00:32 --> 00:33 [SPEAKER_01]: I have no power.
00:33 --> 00:35 [SPEAKER_00]: From gaunt at the hour of our need.
00:36 --> 00:37 [SPEAKER_01]: But your big fan of goats now?
00:39 --> 00:40 [SPEAKER_02]: You never know where you are with a goat, John.
00:41 --> 00:41 [SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
00:41 --> 00:42 [SPEAKER_02]: A wise man not said.
00:43 --> 00:43 [SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
00:44 --> 00:45 [SPEAKER_00]: And another wise man repeated.
00:46 --> 00:46 [SPEAKER_02]: Indeed.
00:46 --> 00:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Hello, it's good to see you.
00:48 --> 00:49 [SPEAKER_01]: We're back.
00:49 --> 00:50 [SPEAKER_01]: We got the gang back together.
00:50 --> 00:52 [SPEAKER_01]: We're, you know, it's just yesterday.
00:52 --> 00:55 [SPEAKER_01]: We recorded our Dragonfly episode our last episode.
00:56 --> 00:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Yesterday in 2024.
00:57 --> 00:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
00:59 --> 01:01 [SPEAKER_01]: We make a way to the wild.
01:01 --> 01:02 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, a whole year.
01:02 --> 01:02 [SPEAKER_02]: Two years.
01:02 --> 01:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Two years.
01:03 --> 01:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Two years.
01:04 --> 01:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Two years.
01:04 --> 01:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Jesus.
01:05 --> 01:07 [SPEAKER_02]: He put this off for two whole years.
01:07 --> 01:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, what were we doing in between us?
01:10 --> 01:11 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's like 300 episodes.
01:12 --> 01:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
01:14 --> 01:24 [SPEAKER_02]: Streaming TV just might not Yeah, and our podcast and our our desire to podcast kind of also went nuts at the same time Well, I couldn't say it happened.
01:24 --> 01:24 [SPEAKER_00]: You did so.
01:25 --> 01:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes Well, we are back.
01:28 --> 01:36 [SPEAKER_01]: We wanted to close out this Earth C series without skipping the last major entry the last novel in the series the other wind
01:36 --> 01:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Which is the end of the main story of Earth's see now.
01:40 --> 01:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Marilyn will tell you that there are quite a lot of short stories that add a lot to this.
01:46 --> 01:53 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, we may revisit that at some time, but I think for now this is going to be our last or see episode closing out this main series.
01:53 --> 01:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's probably good.
01:54 --> 02:01 [SPEAKER_00]: And listeners, if you'd like to wonder through the short stories, let us know and we'll see what happens.
02:02 --> 02:03 [SPEAKER_02]: I had a whole plan for that, too.
02:04 --> 02:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, there you go.
02:04 --> 02:08 [SPEAKER_00]: If you want to hear David's plan, then, right to us.
02:08 --> 02:11 [SPEAKER_02]: Pass lots of money, and we'll be able to do that.
02:11 --> 02:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Sorry, that's going to be so crass and commercial, but.
02:14 --> 02:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, or you could just send us all the emails you can to book at thelorhounds.com that will get you to us.
02:21 --> 02:24 [SPEAKER_01]: You can go to thelorhounds.com slash contact.
02:24 --> 02:31 [SPEAKER_01]: You can set us a voicemail, or you can record one with your phone and email it to us, or David, where can they get in on the rest of the conversation?
02:31 --> 02:40 [SPEAKER_02]: I think they could join the discord and they could probably find a link for that in the show notes With the dedicated earth sea channel.
02:40 --> 02:43 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, we in fact have one of those but wait.
02:43 --> 02:55 [SPEAKER_01]: There's more Billy Mays here We have a patreon super cast subscription where you can get bonus content We have a lot of other fantasy content coming this year.
02:56 --> 03:00 [SPEAKER_01]: We're gonna be kind of covering house dragon We did at night of the seven kingdoms earlier
03:02 --> 03:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, somebody's going to be covered with the generic way.
03:06 --> 03:11 [SPEAKER_02]: I may have somebody lined up since Maryland replaced me on foundation.
03:11 --> 03:15 [SPEAKER_02]: I figure it's only fair that you can
03:15 --> 03:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Sit this one out John if you really are feeling who we'll talk about it.
03:19 --> 03:23 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll talk We'll talk and of course there is a glimmer of a ring in the distance.
03:23 --> 03:34 [SPEAKER_01]: There's actually three rings and seven rings and Possibly nine rings and one ring so we have you do expect the rings of power to come this year This year we yeah, it's been two years this year.
03:34 --> 03:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, okay.
03:35 --> 03:38 [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, just like our part our earthsea podcast.
03:38 --> 03:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah
03:40 --> 03:43 [SPEAKER_01]: We only do Earthsea Podcasts in the years that they're on rings of power.
03:43 --> 03:43 [SPEAKER_00]: That's just that.
03:43 --> 03:46 [SPEAKER_00]: What the phenomenon is.
03:46 --> 03:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
03:47 --> 03:49 [SPEAKER_01]: So we'll come back into the short stories in 2028.
03:50 --> 03:52 [SPEAKER_02]: Do they are they giving an estimation for rings of power?
03:52 --> 03:54 [SPEAKER_02]: Like a fall or something?
03:55 --> 03:57 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think we have no notion right now.
03:57 --> 03:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, all right.
03:57 --> 03:59 [SPEAKER_01]: But we're not here to talk about rings of power.
04:00 --> 04:05 [SPEAKER_01]: We are here to visit the aisle of gaunt in the land of Earthsea.
04:06 --> 04:09 [SPEAKER_01]: and uh, and to fly off on the other wind finally.
04:09 --> 04:12 [SPEAKER_01]: So spoilers for everything on earth.
04:12 --> 04:16 [SPEAKER_01]: See, if you want to hear about the rest of the books, there's a whole series.
04:16 --> 04:18 [SPEAKER_01]: This is, I don't even know what number episode this is.
04:18 --> 04:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Is that 11?
04:19 --> 04:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Is that accurate Marilyn?
04:20 --> 04:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Did you double check that?
04:21 --> 04:22 [SPEAKER_00]: I did not.
04:22 --> 04:23 [SPEAKER_00]: I did not.
04:23 --> 04:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, we're we're through a lot of episodes now.
04:26 --> 04:30 [SPEAKER_01]: We were this intro is really going swimming like could we don't have any information for you?
04:31 --> 04:34 [SPEAKER_01]: But we do have a lot of enthusiasm for this series.
04:35 --> 04:42 [SPEAKER_01]: So we're going to be, you know, talking about the whole part of this book, the other wind, the 2001 novel is that right?
04:43 --> 04:43 [UNKNOWN]: Yes.
04:44 --> 04:57 [SPEAKER_01]: and we're going to take you through it we're going to have quotes we're going to have deep discussions of themes and we're going to have a great time if you haven't read the book and really recommend you go watch a you go read it oh my god i'm so used to cover a TV now and really recommend you go read it
04:58 --> 05:00 [SPEAKER_01]: other than that, stick around.
05:00 --> 05:01 [SPEAKER_01]: We can tell you the plot.
05:02 --> 05:14 [SPEAKER_00]: If you can afford a splurge, look from the one blind collection, the books of Earthsea with wonderful illustrations by Charles Vess, and you know it's pricey, but you get it all there.
05:14 --> 05:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Nothing you'll get left out.
05:17 --> 05:23 [SPEAKER_00]: even the essay earth sea revision which is very hard to find is included in this beautiful beautiful book.
05:23 --> 05:25 [SPEAKER_00]: So for those true book here it's out there.
05:26 --> 05:29 [SPEAKER_00]: If you don't have the stat, I would recommend it at least checking it out.
05:31 --> 05:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, all right then.
05:32 --> 05:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's get right into it.
05:33 --> 05:36 [SPEAKER_01]: So spoilers, abound.
05:36 --> 05:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's go, Marilyn, you have very helpful we wrote a summary here of the first four books at one short story, Dragonfly that we've covered.
05:44 --> 05:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Do we want to alternate who's reading them?
05:46 --> 05:47 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's better now.
05:47 --> 05:47 [SPEAKER_01]: A little bit.
05:48 --> 05:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Excellent idea.
05:49 --> 05:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
05:49 --> 05:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Go for it, Marilyn.
05:50 --> 05:51 [SPEAKER_01]: How does it go, Marilyn?
05:51 --> 05:52 [SPEAKER_01]: David, me.
05:53 --> 05:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Sounds good.
05:54 --> 05:56 [SPEAKER_00]: So the first book is called it was a diversity.
05:57 --> 06:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Earthsea is a world of islands connected by oceans and inlets and bays and reaches.
06:03 --> 06:11 [SPEAKER_00]: was made by magic, which is based in the knowledge of the true name of every single thing, person, creature, and all of their parts.
06:13 --> 06:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Wizards who can earn their staffs on the aisle of rope can use the true speech to shape things and events.
06:20 --> 06:25 [SPEAKER_00]: There are also sorcerers who well-not-estrogues wizards, nonetheless can use magic as well.
06:26 --> 06:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Villages will often have witches, so called.
06:30 --> 06:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Women who know perhaps one or two words of the true speech and have good solid knowledge of herbs, midwifery, healing, and so forth.
06:38 --> 06:50 [SPEAKER_00]: There are also dragons who speak only the old speech and are notable, though if a wizard can speak to one without being eaten by it, then that wizard is deemed to be a dragon lord.
06:51 --> 07:10 [SPEAKER_00]: And during this first book, we see Ged do his student work with Oguyan the Wise on the island of Gaunt and then go to school on the Alevroke where all true wizards are made, it's an expression of names.
07:10 --> 07:16 [SPEAKER_00]: And during this time, he comes to know more about himself, particularly his darker side and how to integrate.
07:16 --> 07:22 [SPEAKER_00]: so that he is whole and can move on in greater strength from that knowledge.
07:24 --> 07:26 [SPEAKER_00]: David, do you want to tell us about the tombs of Atuan?
07:27 --> 07:37 [SPEAKER_02]: Sure, I think we join the story of the tombs of Atuan from Tenars perspective and we don't encounter Ged until much later.
07:37 --> 07:42 [SPEAKER_02]: She's a priestess of the, oh, what was the God's name?
07:42 --> 07:44 [SPEAKER_02]: The, um, the
07:44 --> 07:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Arha was our priestess name.
07:46 --> 07:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that was her priestess name.
07:48 --> 07:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Is the eating one?
07:48 --> 07:50 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, she's eating one.
07:50 --> 07:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm just trying to remember.
07:51 --> 07:52 [SPEAKER_02]: Old God's the old power.
07:52 --> 07:53 [SPEAKER_02]: The nameless, right?
07:54 --> 07:58 [SPEAKER_02]: And the card can now pronounce it.
07:58 --> 07:59 [SPEAKER_02]: I just broke my mouth.
08:00 --> 08:00 [SPEAKER_02]: She's Karkish.
08:00 --> 08:01 [SPEAKER_02]: Karkish, thank you.
08:01 --> 08:02 [SPEAKER_02]: Yep.
08:02 --> 08:19 [SPEAKER_02]: And so, we meet Ged, who is combing the tombs of Atwan in order to recover the missing half of the ring of Erath Akbe, to restore peace and holdness to the world.
08:20 --> 08:27 [SPEAKER_02]: He befriends the high priestess of the tombs to know her, and together they escape the fury of the gods she once
08:27 --> 08:34 [SPEAKER_02]: with the restored ring, they return to have no air, but to no air, because on to roll to stay with Ged's master, he'll be on.
08:36 --> 08:42 [SPEAKER_01]: And the third book, this is the closing of the original trilogy, the farthest shore.
08:43 --> 08:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Ged eventually becomes archmage, and together with the young Prince Aaron, whose true name is Le Bonin,
08:49 --> 08:54 [SPEAKER_01]: goes forth from Rook to discover why magic is draining out of the world.
08:54 --> 09:01 [SPEAKER_01]: They track Kaba, Rook's source for her to his hiding place in the dryland, and the realm of the dead.
09:01 --> 09:07 [SPEAKER_01]: And get uses all his power to close the whole of the world which Kaba had created.
09:08 --> 09:12 [SPEAKER_01]: The Bonin then helps get to return with him to the land of the living.
09:13 --> 09:27 [SPEAKER_01]: get where get kneels and proclaims Lebanon the new King of Earth sea and flies off on the back of the dragon, Kalesen, home to rope, where as the master dorky perses, he is done with doing home to gaunt.
09:27 --> 09:31 [SPEAKER_00]: I believe that was supposed to say it was and I take full responsibility that's okay.
09:31 --> 09:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Missing.
09:32 --> 09:33 [SPEAKER_01]: That's all right.
09:34 --> 09:39 [SPEAKER_00]: So these three books were completed by I believe
09:40 --> 09:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think the last one was 1972.
09:41 --> 09:43 [SPEAKER_01]: I was looking at that.
09:43 --> 09:44 [SPEAKER_00]: OK, great.
09:44 --> 09:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Excellent, thank you.
09:45 --> 09:54 [SPEAKER_00]: And so some 20 years passed during which time the second wave of the women's movement reaches its peak.
09:54 --> 09:58 [SPEAKER_00]: And Lagoon is very much involved with it.
09:58 --> 10:10 [SPEAKER_00]: And eventually realizes that she needs to return to Earthsea, which she thought was finished, because she has some unfinished business
10:11 --> 10:16 [SPEAKER_00]: things, such as why is it that all women's magic is wicked?
10:18 --> 10:20 [SPEAKER_00]: And she does this in the book, Tahanu.
10:22 --> 10:32 [SPEAKER_00]: During this time of Gets Final Task, what we just heard about in the farthest shore, to not has lived on the island of God as a farmwife, and raised two children.
10:33 --> 10:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, Owida, with both children grown, she takes in a
10:39 --> 10:44 [SPEAKER_00]: All of Earth's see is experiencing the effects of the damage done to it by Cobb.
10:45 --> 10:54 [SPEAKER_00]: When Tanar received a message from Ogion, she and the child, who she named Theru, go to him, and Tanar helps Ogion to make a good death.
10:55 --> 11:00 [SPEAKER_00]: After he receives his final vision, in which he says, all changed.
11:01 --> 11:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Shortly after, this get returns to Oguyen's house, but is deeply wounded by his journey in the dry land of death, and by his loss of his wizardry.
11:12 --> 11:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Eventually, he is healed and returns to Tanodra and Thathra with the farmhouse in time to save him from the attacks of Masterless Men.
11:19 --> 11:30 [SPEAKER_00]: They spend the winter together, and then return to Oguyen's house by a false summons,
11:31 --> 11:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Thelru is left free and is able to summon the greatest dragon of all.
11:36 --> 11:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Kalesen, to come to their aid, get speaks to Kalesen and learns that Thelru is actually the dragon's daughter, named Tehanu.
11:48 --> 11:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, that's the name of the book.
11:50 --> 11:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Got it in one.
11:52 --> 12:11 [SPEAKER_02]: Dragonfly is a short story, sometime later in a different island, a young woman named Dragonfly seeks to enter the wizard's school on rope, her male disguise fails her, but the doorkeeper admits her anyway, she spends some time with the master patch her nir in the imminent grove.
12:11 --> 12:14 [SPEAKER_02]: the center of the world, or so they think.
12:14 --> 12:17 [SPEAKER_02]: Things have gone ill with the masters of Rook.
12:17 --> 12:24 [SPEAKER_02]: The seminar having summoned himself back from the drylands, contrary to all the laws, the known laws of the time.
12:25 --> 12:40 [SPEAKER_02]: He's furious with the presence of a woman on Rook in challenges, dragonfly to a confrontation to cast her from the island, dragonfly challenges him to climb rope null with her thus revealing their true shapes.
12:40 --> 12:44 [SPEAKER_02]: Summoner is a dead skeleton and dragonfly is a dragon.
12:45 --> 12:50 [SPEAKER_02]: She flies off to the furthest, a west in order to learn her true dragon name.
12:50 --> 12:57 [SPEAKER_02]: And the doorkeeper says it's time for the school of rope to open its doors wide to change.
12:59 --> 13:00 [SPEAKER_00]: You've heard me say it here before.
13:00 --> 13:02 [SPEAKER_00]: I love the doorkeeper.
13:03 --> 13:05 [SPEAKER_00]: I think he is my favorite of all that.
13:05 --> 13:06 [SPEAKER_01]: He's very cool.
13:06 --> 13:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
13:06 --> 13:08 [SPEAKER_00]: He is my favorite of all the wizards too.
13:08 --> 13:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Caramatterner is pretty chill too.
13:10 --> 13:11 [SPEAKER_01]: I do enjoy the patterner.
13:12 --> 13:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and the master name right kid.
13:15 --> 13:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Caram.
13:15 --> 13:16 [SPEAKER_02]: Cook.
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13:37 --> 13:39 [SPEAKER_01]: We have a hot take section.
13:39 --> 13:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Are we calling them hot takes anymore?
13:40 --> 13:46 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like that's highly in dispute now, maybe it's a hot take to call it a hot take.
13:46 --> 13:49 [SPEAKER_01]: So give us your hot take squared Maryland.
13:50 --> 13:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, this is probably the most overtly political of all your C series, which I find kind of interesting.
13:59 --> 14:05 [SPEAKER_00]: There's obvious shadowing a Middle Eastern customs and stereotypical quote unquote Western responses to them.
14:06 --> 14:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Irrespective of the fact that the archipelagans are actually darker skin and the cards are a very light of skin.
14:13 --> 14:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
14:15 --> 14:20 [SPEAKER_00]: There's interestingly some degrees of barbarism on the different islands of the cards.
14:21 --> 14:23 [SPEAKER_00]: And we hear a little bit about that.
14:24 --> 14:28 [SPEAKER_00]: I was delighted to learn that archipelagans
14:29 --> 14:34 [SPEAKER_00]: which is a nice knot to talk in, I think, from she had great respect.
14:34 --> 14:44 [SPEAKER_00]: In the Havnorian lays, it says, 100 warriors, 100 women sat in the great hall of Geml's seaborn at the King's table, quickly and talk.
14:44 --> 14:50 [SPEAKER_00]: handsome and generous gentry of haventor, no warrior's braver, no women, more beautiful.
14:51 --> 14:59 [SPEAKER_00]: So she gets a chance to flesh out haventor a bit more as the largest island, the capital city, et cetera, et cetera.
15:00 --> 15:03 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'd just like these little touches of culture that she throws in.
15:05 --> 15:09 [SPEAKER_00]: And in the book, Liguin completes the revisioning that she began into haventor.
15:10 --> 15:15 [SPEAKER_00]: answering questions about death, dragons, and the limits of magic.
15:17 --> 15:25 [SPEAKER_00]: And just a little quote here from the book I like this because it demonstrates how politics go on Havner.
15:27 --> 15:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Debate in the Council tended to be tumultuous, though Prince Sege kept strict rule, not letting anyone interrupt another or speak for more than one turn of the two-minute sunglasses.
15:39 --> 15:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Bablers and donors were cut off by a crash of the Prince's silver chip staff, and his call to the next speaker.
15:47 --> 15:56 [SPEAKER_00]: So they talked and shouted back and forth at a fast pace, and all the things that had to be said and many things that did not need to be said were said and refuted and said again.
15:57 --> 16:00 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, what a great political system, right?
16:01 --> 16:04 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, okay, anybody can have your say for two minutes.
16:04 --> 16:05 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we move on to the next person.
16:05 --> 16:11 [SPEAKER_00]: And we just keep it going until everybody has either said all that they want to say or feels exhausted.
16:12 --> 16:13 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't say anymore.
16:14 --> 16:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it does have like Prince Sige does keep some kind of order here.
16:19 --> 16:23 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, if it works, I guess that's great for them.
16:24 --> 16:27 [SPEAKER_00]: And it teaches them how to say the important things in two minutes or less.
16:28 --> 16:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
16:29 --> 16:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Anything else on your hot takes Marilyn or you want to save it for the main?
16:32 --> 16:33 [SPEAKER_00]: No, no.
16:33 --> 16:34 [SPEAKER_00]: We can we can move on.
16:34 --> 16:36 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, David, your hot takes.
16:37 --> 16:50 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I should first state that I am not fully prepared in as much as that I have read the other wind I read it back when we thought we were going to do it and we never did it.
16:51 --> 17:02 [SPEAKER_02]: And then we scheduled this and realized that oh my gosh, I should start reading it and I did not get a chance to fully read I got a thing about maybe half a half-ish way.
17:02 --> 17:07 [SPEAKER_02]: And then I kind of just read some summaries to finish up for today.
17:07 --> 17:11 [SPEAKER_02]: So I apologize for that for not being fully prepared.
17:11 --> 17:19 [SPEAKER_02]: And I was trying to think about, boy, we used to do a lot of work on these like when digging in and playing up our notes and all that kind of stuff.
17:19 --> 17:23 [SPEAKER_02]: So I feel, but you know, we'll have a nice conversation.
17:23 --> 17:28 [SPEAKER_02]: So there was a couple of things that struck me.
17:29 --> 17:33 [SPEAKER_02]: today as I was getting ready to have our talk.
17:34 --> 17:37 [SPEAKER_02]: And the first, they're kind of interrelated.
17:37 --> 17:50 [SPEAKER_02]: There's this idea of this resonance with Tolken, you know, and whatever her positions were in her relationship to Tolken, but these are both works where there's a sort of a legendarium.
17:50 --> 17:52 [SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of thought.
17:52 --> 18:04 [SPEAKER_02]: In terms of the peoples and the histories, there's a lot of examining of morality and mortality and structures of power.
18:05 --> 18:10 [SPEAKER_02]: and then a lot of council meetings, people talking about things.
18:10 --> 18:20 [SPEAKER_02]: But then once we move into the heroic tales and the deeds of great heroes, and then there's a sort of an aftermath after the calamity of all of this stuff.
18:20 --> 18:28 [SPEAKER_02]: There's this sort of a return to the quiet work of rebuilding following this.
18:28 --> 18:33 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that in some way mirrors a little bit tokens on,
18:32 --> 18:37 [SPEAKER_02]: experience with war and then, you know, the aftermath of war.
18:37 --> 18:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but it gives you like four epilogue.
18:39 --> 18:41 [SPEAKER_01]: It is book, right?
18:41 --> 18:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Whereas here we get like two pages, right?
18:44 --> 18:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's done.
18:46 --> 18:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I like you pointing that out though because so many of the hero stories don't point out the fact that
18:53 --> 19:05 [SPEAKER_00]: If there is going to be cleaning up to be done after any calamity, and it's very easy to assume that the heroes just get to kick back and relax and everything will be fine.
19:05 --> 19:15 [SPEAKER_00]: I really like that both to how new and the other wind are showing, even if the problem
19:15 --> 19:18 [SPEAKER_00]: We have to solve the problem and it's effects as well.
19:18 --> 19:19 [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
19:19 --> 19:21 [SPEAKER_00]: And the effects are very wide reaching.
19:22 --> 19:22 [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
19:22 --> 19:25 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, some 20 years later, they're still rippling.
19:26 --> 19:29 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's why the scouring of the shire was so important to Tolkien.
19:31 --> 19:33 [SPEAKER_00]: The very same reasons.
19:33 --> 19:37 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, this kind of,
19:38 --> 19:52 [SPEAKER_00]: wrong wound to the world is not only going to happen just in the place where the hero you know feels the wound or heals the wound or whatever it's going to have ripple effects sort of very long time as we see in this book.
19:52 --> 20:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah and both internally to the the people who were a direct and indirectly affected by
20:00 --> 20:09 [SPEAKER_02]: this as well as to the land itself and the institutions that beings, that thinking beings come together to create.
20:10 --> 20:23 [SPEAKER_02]: And I fear we're going to have some rebuilding to do in the next in the next little while because it's amazing how quickly institutions and structures and balances can be thrown out of balance.
20:23 --> 20:39 [SPEAKER_02]: by one person and this idea that and you know something that we concept that we circle around a lot within the Lauraham community is the idea of power over versus power with and we can see what happens when power over is abused.
20:40 --> 20:42 [SPEAKER_02]: and what it can do to the world.
20:42 --> 20:45 [SPEAKER_02]: And then how do we go about doing that?
20:45 --> 20:52 [SPEAKER_02]: And I don't know if we're going to get a two minute hour glass and class systems of governance.
20:53 --> 21:01 [SPEAKER_02]: But then there's the down, and it's just sort of in the real world reflection, there's also the downside of too much debate, like sometimes you got to get stuff done.
21:01 --> 21:02 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, we have a bridge that we got to rebuild.
21:03 --> 21:08 [SPEAKER_02]: You got to suspend some things and build it, but then also in there, there's a danger that lies in that.
21:09 --> 21:19 [SPEAKER_02]: So, I think it's interesting that both Laguin and Tolkien, or she's resonating with Tolkien and in her own ways.
21:20 --> 21:32 [SPEAKER_02]: And these are two, you know, or see as it huge, like Tolkien, she didn't work out the phases of the moon, you know, to the degree.
21:32 --> 21:38 [SPEAKER_02]: But there's a lot as much of depth of soul and introspection, I think, in both worlds.
21:39 --> 22:03 [SPEAKER_02]: But then the other thing that I'm really interested in because for me, the first three books, we know when I read them at that time and who I was in that moment and how those books resonated with me, they're beloved by me and you know what I remember when we read them, I was still affected in the same way that I was, what I was a young man,
22:04 --> 22:15 [SPEAKER_02]: And the second three books very different in tone and structure and what she's saying and as she says, you know, in the two decades, you know, feminism happened.
22:15 --> 22:16 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
22:16 --> 22:20 [SPEAKER_02]: That there she had to think about this this world.
22:20 --> 22:24 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think it's really interesting that, you know,
22:24 --> 22:46 [SPEAKER_02]: She's racconning her own legendarium to retell what is true by not tearing down what she wrote originally, or destroying that initial world, but uncovering the truth to tell the tale with the added voices that were not included in the first one.
22:46 --> 23:03 [SPEAKER_02]: So I think it's really ingenious, both from a writer's standpoint of how she's going to deal with like, how do I, quote unquote, fix or how do I add to what I originally wrote, which it's incomplete.
23:04 --> 23:08 [SPEAKER_02]: And if I, you know, if it's incomplete, then it doesn't have to be torn down.
23:09 --> 23:10 [SPEAKER_02]: I can add to it.
23:10 --> 23:11 [SPEAKER_02]: And I can illuminate.
23:11 --> 23:15 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think the way that she works her own personal
23:18 --> 23:39 [SPEAKER_02]: as a political, as a person who is politically conscious, as a person who thought about ethics and morality and philosophy, as a daust, as a Western daust, you know, somebody who was interested in that philosophy and of monism, as opposed to dualism, right?
23:39 --> 23:44 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, sort of, if I'm using those phrases correctly,
23:45 --> 23:55 [SPEAKER_02]: that her own journey as a person and as an author is kind of embedded in this retconning of her story.
23:55 --> 23:59 [SPEAKER_02]: And I don't, retconning is actually kind of a word, I don't even think it's the right word, I was just not the right word.
23:59 --> 24:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Not the right word either.
24:01 --> 24:03 [SPEAKER_01]: We contextualize, yeah, I think that's it.
24:03 --> 24:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Even we can actually say it's adding, it's whole, it's, we were on one side of the story and we had to move around to the other side to see something that was always present,
24:14 --> 24:24 [SPEAKER_01]: No, it isn't that what re-contextualizing it is so like I see re-contextualizing as like illuminating the darker sides of the of the coin, right?
24:24 --> 24:26 [SPEAKER_01]: The parts that you hadn't looked at yet.
24:27 --> 24:31 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, you bring in new material to view the older material in a different light.
24:31 --> 24:32 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's what I think she does here.
24:33 --> 24:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
24:33 --> 24:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Where as retconning would be, I'm gonna rewrite the book and have Tinarra have a different role.
24:40 --> 24:40 [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
24:41 --> 24:44 [SPEAKER_00]: What the word she is toward is revisiting.
24:45 --> 24:53 [SPEAKER_00]: And in that, I see her looking at the world as she's created it and saying, why is it this way?
24:53 --> 25:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, what things about this world is this telling me that I just didn't know or that I overlooked.
25:02 --> 25:04 [SPEAKER_00]: And now, some of them are kind of getting up my nose.
25:06 --> 25:09 [SPEAKER_00]: So, what am I not seeing?
25:10 --> 25:12 [SPEAKER_00]: How do I see this with different eyes?
25:13 --> 25:15 [SPEAKER_02]: What did I know when I wrote the first one?
25:15 --> 25:16 [SPEAKER_00]: What did I know when I wrote it?
25:16 --> 25:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
25:17 --> 25:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
25:18 --> 25:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Without any sense of bad me or anything like that, because she only knew what she knew then.
25:26 --> 25:31 [SPEAKER_00]: And some of what she did was, was incredibly forward thinking for the 1960s.
25:33 --> 25:39 [SPEAKER_00]: At the same time, it was very, very much structured
25:41 --> 25:54 [SPEAKER_00]: and to find the power in a housewife, a widowed housewife, to see that the power to heal a child was the pivotal moment for the feeling of the world.
25:56 --> 26:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Was a radical act, but it was because she was willing to see her own world through different lenses.
26:03 --> 26:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Or if you like, take off the lenses that we're blinding her.
26:07 --> 26:11 [SPEAKER_00]: to what was actually there and to think, all right, so why is this there?
26:11 --> 26:13 [SPEAKER_00]: And she's still doing it in the other wind.
26:14 --> 26:17 [SPEAKER_00]: There will be moments when we will see the same kind of thing.
26:18 --> 26:22 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, she's doing it for certain types of magic that had a very bad reputation.
26:23 --> 26:29 [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, there's a lot of looking at, well, all right, you're from a different place.
26:29 --> 26:31 [SPEAKER_00]: They don't understand your language.
26:31 --> 26:34 [SPEAKER_00]: You sound to them just like they sound to you.
26:34 --> 26:35 [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
26:35 --> 26:39 [SPEAKER_00]: So let's like go of all that and just figure out, how are we gonna communicate?
26:39 --> 26:41 [SPEAKER_00]: How are we going to make this work?
26:42 --> 26:43 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
26:43 --> 26:50 [SPEAKER_02]: And she was in her late 30s when she wrote Wizard of Earth C. She was born in 29.
26:50 --> 27:19 [SPEAKER_02]: and uh... she wrote the book in like sixty seven sixty eight so this idea that you know where she came from and what she knew at that time a full of the world to then when she wrote the second trilogy right there was some major uh... uh... uh... we went through a lot of uh... evolution in thought
27:20 --> 27:35 [SPEAKER_02]: He certainly did too to look at things and that's, I mean, you know, Maryland, you lived it more than either genre where we're more in the beneficiaries of that work that was done at that time.
27:35 --> 27:38 [SPEAKER_02]: But then we're also re-contextualized and trying to grapple with it as well.
27:38 --> 27:42 [SPEAKER_01]: I was going to say that we have our millennial movies coming up next month.
27:42 --> 27:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Let me tell you, we've changed a little bit since nearly two thousand these two.
27:46 --> 27:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank goodness.
27:47 --> 27:47 [SPEAKER_00]: No.
27:48 --> 27:56 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I experienced it, but both of you, each and your own generations, if you'd like to think of it that way, are caring it forward.
27:57 --> 27:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
27:57 --> 27:58 [SPEAKER_00]: In a lot of different ways.
27:58 --> 28:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, on the one hand, could you have been the kind of fathers that you are without what went before?
28:04 --> 28:09 [SPEAKER_00]: I hope I'd like to think so, because it's certainly in newest people, and yet,
28:10 --> 28:12 [SPEAKER_00]: those changes had to happen.
28:12 --> 28:16 [SPEAKER_00]: So, Leguin was a, was a, she went to finishing school in Paris.
28:16 --> 28:16 [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
28:18 --> 28:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
28:18 --> 28:22 [SPEAKER_00]: And then married a man directly out of finishing school.
28:23 --> 28:27 [SPEAKER_00]: But she was also trained as an anthropologist.
28:27 --> 28:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
28:27 --> 28:31 [SPEAKER_00]: And I will always maintain that this is what makes her world so coherent.
28:32 --> 28:33 [SPEAKER_00]: And so culturally based.
28:34 --> 28:40 [SPEAKER_00]: So that to my mind, the only equal to it is
28:40 --> 28:46 [SPEAKER_00]: which he created using the root of language, which is another basis of culture.
28:47 --> 28:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
28:47 --> 28:53 [SPEAKER_02]: And arguably, very powerful one because how can you have society without language?
28:54 --> 28:55 [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
28:55 --> 29:10 [SPEAKER_02]: How do people come together to communicate then to create institutions, to agree on strategies, to build monuments, or compose songs, record podcasts, even.
29:11 --> 29:31 [SPEAKER_01]: John, a tepid to lukewarm takes possibly from you or, you know, this could be recency bias, but I mean in general and I remember thinking this the first time I read it and the first time I read the Tejano is that I preferred those two novels to the first three, as well as a collected work.
29:31 --> 29:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, and the reason is not just because it's, you know, it's more modernized, but it just, I don't know that there's another author who has Like we talked about recontextualized their earlier work, right?
29:43 --> 29:57 [SPEAKER_01]: You usually you have the, you know, the author just say like, oh, I wrote that series when I was young When this year is when I'm older, I you know, maybe I'm wise or now, but like, you know, that's my earlier work You know, it's even king he's like, well, I had a lot of cocaine then.
29:57 --> 29:58 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't have any full skin
29:58 --> 30:01 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, all these different people at least different ways to divide there.
30:01 --> 30:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, Marilyn.
30:03 --> 30:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Stephen King was on like a different drug every series.
30:04 --> 30:14 [SPEAKER_01]: He wrote me But I guess he just had a hard time with a long main literature's John But my point is like I don't know even Tolkien.
30:15 --> 30:19 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think had this kind of binary ongoing
30:21 --> 30:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I guess the reason is Tolkien worked on his legendary and his entire life, that's what I'm trying to say.
30:26 --> 30:28 [SPEAKER_01]: And so you can see the change more gradually.
30:28 --> 30:33 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's so fascinating to me to see this 20-year break, and to see what happened in there.
30:34 --> 30:40 [SPEAKER_00]: And if I may Tolkien also, at the end of his life, was starting to retcon.
30:41 --> 30:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, he was.
30:42 --> 30:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Because he was afraid that he had overstepped.
30:45 --> 30:49 [SPEAKER_00]: his mandate as the creature of a creator to subcreate.
30:49 --> 30:51 [SPEAKER_00]: But that's a whole other podcast.
30:51 --> 30:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, we all know who you need a therapy, but he was a man, he was a man in the 70s.
30:56 --> 30:57 [SPEAKER_01]: He wasn't getting the therapy.
30:58 --> 31:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you know, anybody who was in the trenches in the world were one needed therapy.
31:03 --> 31:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
31:03 --> 31:04 [SPEAKER_00]: How many of them got it?
31:04 --> 31:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Very, very few.
31:05 --> 31:12 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, and also just to throw in the retconning thing too,
31:13 --> 31:19 [SPEAKER_02]: calibrations for the world that he created, specifically around can you have a inherently evil race?
31:20 --> 31:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
31:21 --> 31:29 [SPEAKER_02]: If the creator is created all of this and whether these are perversions or not, they are still part of the divine spark.
31:30 --> 31:32 [SPEAKER_02]: How can they be condemned in that way?
31:32 --> 31:35 [SPEAKER_00]: That was one big area that he was troubled by.
31:35 --> 31:41 [SPEAKER_00]: The other one was the growing scientific knowledge
31:42 --> 32:02 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, obviously he knew it was a round world, not a flat one, but just very basic things like I'm sorry the son and the moon could not be created before, you know, before the rather and how am I going to do that, you know, literally wanting to rip out by the roots, one of his core mythic images of the two trees.
32:03 --> 32:06 [SPEAKER_00]: which just breaks my heart every time I think of it.
32:06 --> 32:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, he didn't.
32:07 --> 32:08 [SPEAKER_01]: So we can move on from it.
32:08 --> 32:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, we can move on.
32:09 --> 32:09 [SPEAKER_00]: We can move on.
32:09 --> 32:11 [SPEAKER_00]: This is not a Tolkien podcast.
32:11 --> 32:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, let's let's go back to look at it.
32:12 --> 32:18 [SPEAKER_02]: But can we talk about anything that is fantasy related without considering Tolkien?
32:18 --> 32:19 [SPEAKER_02]: I think not.
32:19 --> 32:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, we shall.
32:20 --> 32:21 [SPEAKER_00]: So you're trying to search her.
32:21 --> 32:23 [SPEAKER_00]: I never said you couldn't.
32:23 --> 32:28 [SPEAKER_01]: I, I'm starting my podcast for the Cosmere tomorrow.
32:28 --> 32:31 [SPEAKER_01]: We're starting to record with a radio act of Ramling guys.
32:31 --> 32:33 [SPEAKER_01]: And maybe we should have a Tolkien jar.
32:33 --> 32:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, it's a swear jar or a play.
32:35 --> 32:36 [SPEAKER_01]: You have to put it down in the jar.
32:36 --> 32:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
32:38 --> 32:38 [SPEAKER_00]: I like that.
32:38 --> 32:40 [SPEAKER_00]: And where does the money go towards, John?
32:40 --> 32:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
32:41 --> 32:41 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
32:41 --> 32:43 [SPEAKER_01]: It goes towards advertisements or something like that.
32:43 --> 32:45 [SPEAKER_01]: We have to put it towards like a social media campaign.
32:46 --> 32:46 [SPEAKER_00]: I see.
32:49 --> 32:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Funny.
32:50 --> 32:51 [SPEAKER_01]: That was, that's going to bankrupt me if I put that role.
32:51 --> 32:53 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I probably shouldn't.
32:54 --> 33:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so I really love this book, and I love Tejano, and I think what I really love the most about it.
33:01 --> 33:09 [SPEAKER_01]: One, I think it is very brave that she does not give Get His Powers back, that Get has to live with me a different kind of hero.
33:09 --> 33:15 [SPEAKER_01]: And a weaker story would have restored him at least given him a spark.
33:16 --> 33:22 [SPEAKER_01]: I at the end and and they and she didn't she just said he and then he lived as a goat herder and that's great.
33:22 --> 33:23 [SPEAKER_01]: I love it.
33:23 --> 33:24 [SPEAKER_01]: I love get the goat herder.
33:25 --> 33:27 [SPEAKER_01]: He's even better than get the wizard in my opinion.
33:27 --> 33:28 [SPEAKER_01]: I like him better.
33:28 --> 33:29 [SPEAKER_01]: I would want to hang out with them.
33:29 --> 33:31 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I'll help mend his pictures.
33:32 --> 33:36 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll you know, I'll I'll tend to go and I'll go pick out a kid and he gives people kids.
33:37 --> 33:37 [SPEAKER_00]: It's great.
33:37 --> 33:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Not even his own.
33:38 --> 33:42 [SPEAKER_01]: He just goes around and he's he is the kid and redistribution center.
33:45 --> 33:46 [SPEAKER_00]: And who knew we even needed one?
33:46 --> 33:48 [SPEAKER_02]: It's not the quality of the kittens.
33:48 --> 33:53 [SPEAKER_02]: It's the distribution, the fair and equal distribution for kittens that's the problem.
33:53 --> 33:57 [SPEAKER_01]: I do love that Tehaneu goes to Alder.
33:57 --> 33:58 [SPEAKER_01]: One point ago, that was the best cat.
33:59 --> 34:00 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm glad that you got that cat.
34:00 --> 34:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes, yes.
34:03 --> 34:07 [SPEAKER_00]: The thing is, he's lost his magical power.
34:08 --> 34:15 [SPEAKER_00]: He's lost none of his wisdom or his experience.
34:16 --> 34:35 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's the point that she's making and that the thing that he has been learning and re-learning and re-learning, whenever something like a broken picture comes along and he just kind of ditches on himself all over again because what's upon a time I could just say a word and it would be fixed.
34:36 --> 34:46 [SPEAKER_01]: But at the same time, I am really enjoying the fact that he is not like, I'm gonna go to, I'm gonna introduce you to the king and I'm gonna be putting myself in these events.
34:47 --> 34:50 [SPEAKER_01]: He says, what is the doorkeeper say?
34:50 --> 34:51 [SPEAKER_01]: I think he says he's done with doing.
34:52 --> 34:54 [SPEAKER_00]: He is done with doing, yes, one of my favorite lines.
34:55 --> 34:58 [SPEAKER_01]: and just he's done with doing.
34:58 --> 35:00 [SPEAKER_01]: He's he's he's here to connect people.
35:00 --> 35:01 [SPEAKER_01]: He's happy to do that.
35:01 --> 35:04 [SPEAKER_01]: He's happy to perform kindnesses like giving you a kid and holding your hand all night.
35:04 --> 35:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Like he's such a kind man.
35:06 --> 35:07 [SPEAKER_01]: He has such soft power.
35:09 --> 35:12 [SPEAKER_01]: But he doesn't need to put himself at the center of the events, right?
35:12 --> 35:13 [SPEAKER_01]: He'll help you if you come to him.
35:14 --> 35:17 [SPEAKER_01]: But he does not want to be there anymore.
35:18 --> 35:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Even to the point of hurting Lebanan, his companion through this lens, because he refuses to go.
35:28 --> 35:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, an invitation.
35:30 --> 35:31 [SPEAKER_00]: He just will not do it.
35:31 --> 35:35 [SPEAKER_00]: And I can think of any number of reasons why, but you go ahead, David, because you said you've been thinking about this.
35:35 --> 35:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean, we're, um, we're ranging across the I know, we're really what we're really going pretty deep already.
35:42 --> 35:44 [SPEAKER_02]: But is that the, is that a surprise?
35:44 --> 35:47 [SPEAKER_02]: It should, or should we just follow that and just allow ourselves?
35:47 --> 35:55 [SPEAKER_02]: We could do that, uh, instead of following a strict order, you know, we're, we're deconstructing and re-contextualizing our own podcasts.
35:55 --> 35:57 [SPEAKER_02]: While we're podcasting, come on.
35:57 --> 35:59 [SPEAKER_00]: But I wrote all this lovely outline.
35:59 --> 36:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, you did.
36:00 --> 36:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, you did.
36:00 --> 36:01 [SPEAKER_02]: We do not want to know.
36:01 --> 36:04 [SPEAKER_02]: And neither do we want to, to throw that away either.
36:04 --> 36:12 [SPEAKER_01]: And so we're going to take a quick break and we will force ourselves to follow the outlines and that we don't keep jumping all over the place.
36:13 --> 36:15 [SPEAKER_00]: John, as I Prince Siggay.
36:26 --> 36:27 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, we're back.
36:27 --> 36:32 [SPEAKER_01]: We were already talking about Alder and Ged in their whole relationship here.
36:32 --> 36:35 [SPEAKER_01]: So why don't Marilyn, you want to lead us into chapter 1, the written ups is there?
36:36 --> 36:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
36:37 --> 36:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Alder, a mentor with a capital M, is sent from Oak Island to visit Ged in his home on
36:49 --> 36:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Alder cannot sleep.
36:51 --> 36:57 [SPEAKER_00]: He's troubled with dreams of people reaching to him from the other side of the wall of the dry land, which divides the living world dead.
36:59 --> 37:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Ged proposes that he tried to sleep with a kitten touching him, as it seems that the touch of animals can be grounding, even in sleep.
37:07 --> 37:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Despite his absence of magic, Ged's wisdom and experience provided temporary solution.
37:13 --> 37:19 [SPEAKER_00]: But he sends Alder on to have North, knowing that there are those at court who must hear his story.
37:22 --> 37:33 [SPEAKER_01]: I've realized who I'm pictured get as I was in Ireland once with my wife and we stayed in Blarney with this guy named Tom, who seemed like he was a former pirate.
37:34 --> 37:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
37:35 --> 37:38 [SPEAKER_01]: And we get to the door and he asked for French.
37:38 --> 37:40 [SPEAKER_01]: We say no he says good I hate the French.
37:40 --> 37:45 [SPEAKER_01]: But anyway, so we get up to the room, which is on the
37:45 --> 37:53 [SPEAKER_01]: On the top floor, it's like a loft, a little bedroom, and he goes, watch out for the paratroopers, and we're like, what?
37:54 --> 37:59 [SPEAKER_01]: And in the middle of the night, all of a sudden, cats just start falling onto the skylight.
38:02 --> 38:04 [SPEAKER_01]: And so he, he, he told us,
38:04 --> 38:32 [SPEAKER_01]: you can let him in if you want him we just like ignore him because we were like whatever I don't know what you're talking about but then we let the cat in but uh yeah so anyway get is get is this pirate unhinged man saying like I know it would solve your problem it have a cat just I don't have any magic anymore but you have some feline friend and it's interesting how alder is troubled by the fact that this man who he can still only see as the archmage
38:33 --> 38:37 [SPEAKER_00]: is living and tattered clothes, taking care of goats, and that he has a wife.
38:39 --> 38:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
38:39 --> 38:40 [SPEAKER_00]: It just didn't really bugs him.
38:42 --> 38:46 [SPEAKER_01]: And later, all there says, he really visits us and has had a few times.
38:46 --> 39:01 [SPEAKER_01]: I think in chapter five, he thinks about getting, again, and he goes, it's amazing that he still lives in such poverty, but I guess it's by choice, and perhaps it would hurt him more to have possessions when he lost his true wealth.
39:02 --> 39:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
39:03 --> 39:11 [SPEAKER_00]: which is amazing the insightful on Alder's part and yet he does also eventually lose his power.
39:12 --> 39:12 [SPEAKER_01]: He does.
39:13 --> 39:20 [SPEAKER_00]: So maybe that has given him some insight into why, yeah, it's a perfectly content to me and I don't know what his goats and his wife.
39:21 --> 39:28 [SPEAKER_01]: I was a little bit unclear on if he does fully loses power towards the end, but we can get to that later.
39:28 --> 39:29 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll get there when we get there.
39:30 --> 39:32 [SPEAKER_01]: David, you know, you said you read the first half of it.
39:32 --> 39:33 [SPEAKER_01]: So what were your thoughts on this section?
39:35 --> 39:54 [SPEAKER_02]: I thought that there were some interesting sort of points of view in here and we learn about the world in some different ways
39:54 --> 39:59 [SPEAKER_02]: And she's telling, she's already telling a different story here.
39:59 --> 40:06 [SPEAKER_02]: I really like what you said, John, how brave it was for her to leave Ged powerless instead of giving him some sort of spark.
40:07 --> 40:18 [SPEAKER_02]: And this whole idea of just seeing him as a lonely, not the right word, but living a simple life,
40:19 --> 40:31 [SPEAKER_02]: But then we learn about, or I should say, it's not, we don't learn about the world necessarily, but we can see, Laguin already laying the track for where we're going with this.
40:31 --> 40:40 [SPEAKER_02]: She's already laying out some things like questioning things about who has power, how do these, you know, so-called witches live?
40:40 --> 40:45 [SPEAKER_02]: There's a quote, I think it's on around page, well, pages don't matter if you're reading a digital grade.
40:46 --> 41:06 [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, those seldom sell a bit, which is seldom keep company more than a night or two with any man, and it was a rare thing for which to marry a man far more often, two of them lived their lives together, and that was called a witch marriage or a she-troth, which is child then had a mother or two mothers, but no father.
41:06 --> 41:11 [SPEAKER_02]: So we're learning about the world simultaneously while she's deconstructing the power or relation.
41:12 --> 41:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Or pointing us towards what she's going to do, which is to deconstruct the nature of power in this world.
41:19 --> 41:31 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's a very, you know, it is a very feminist story in sort of that era, which is not which is, but which is
41:31 --> 41:43 [SPEAKER_02]: you know, how was power re or what is the history of power among humanity in the first in our primary world here?
41:43 --> 41:43 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
41:43 --> 41:44 [SPEAKER_02]: And she's.
41:46 --> 41:50 [SPEAKER_02]: she's working that question and that problem in this world here.
41:50 --> 41:51 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
41:51 --> 42:07 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, and there's, you know, oh, you know, was there, was, was Lilith a thing and, you know, in the Bible and Adam and Eve and Lilith, you know, all this stuff and, and ancient societies and where they match a linear arm, you know, where was the power, but like there's a lot of questions we get and, and she's an anthropologist, of course.
42:08 --> 42:08 [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
42:08 --> 42:15 [SPEAKER_02]: So there's a lot of stuff around that, but she's going right in the first chapter, she's going right
42:15 --> 42:25 [SPEAKER_02]: setting this up to saying I'm going to be deconstructing this conversation or this power this world that I created and that's going to be our conversation of this story.
42:27 --> 42:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love that Alder is a mentor because throughout the course of the story
42:42 --> 42:53 [SPEAKER_00]: And the fact is, at this point, he is not lost his, his ability and, um, Ged calls it a kind of healing.
42:54 --> 42:56 [SPEAKER_00]: No small gift, no easy craft.
42:57 --> 42:59 [SPEAKER_00]: And Alder took joy in it.
43:00 --> 43:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
43:00 --> 43:08 [SPEAKER_00]: But because his dreams are haunting him now, he's having a
43:09 --> 43:10 [SPEAKER_00]: So his joy has been broken.
43:11 --> 43:11 [SPEAKER_00]: His sleep has been broken.
43:12 --> 43:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously his joy was broken when his wife died.
43:16 --> 43:18 [SPEAKER_00]: And I can't remember if she died in childbirth.
43:20 --> 43:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Or in plight at ya.
43:21 --> 43:23 [SPEAKER_00]: That seemed to be the case, yeah.
43:23 --> 43:27 [SPEAKER_00]: And she's appearing to him from across the wall.
43:28 --> 43:32 [SPEAKER_00]: And as all their tells get the story, he knows exactly what will this is.
43:33 --> 43:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
43:33 --> 43:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
43:34 --> 43:35 [SPEAKER_01]: And everybody does know, right?
43:35 --> 43:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Who's told the story?
43:36 --> 43:39 [SPEAKER_01]: All these, you know, great people were told.
43:39 --> 43:40 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
43:40 --> 43:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
43:40 --> 43:46 [SPEAKER_01]: I too love that he's a mentor because, you know, David, you brought up the witch marriage, right?
43:47 --> 43:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Mm.
43:47 --> 43:47 [SPEAKER_01]: The witch.
43:48 --> 43:48 [SPEAKER_01]: What a way.
43:49 --> 43:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Which we thought was true though.
43:53 --> 44:21 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, this is an illusion that she's making to her previous work and the suspicion that is cast upon women with power in this world and yet the solution to this problem is primarily the solution to the problems of the book is primarily the relationships between two sets of women together.
44:22 --> 44:23 [SPEAKER_00]: That's all I'll have to see.
44:23 --> 44:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
44:23 --> 44:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Pretty good out in front of me.
44:24 --> 44:25 [SPEAKER_00]: But that's what's in my mind right now.
44:25 --> 44:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
44:26 --> 44:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
44:26 --> 44:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Those two relationships are at the core of the solution here.
44:29 --> 44:35 [SPEAKER_01]: And if you want to add in, get and older, right?
44:35 --> 44:36 [SPEAKER_01]: I know that they're not women.
44:37 --> 44:47 [SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, the work of Carol Gilligan will tell you that patriarchy keeps men from having relationships with each other the same way it keeps women from having relationships with each other.
44:47 --> 44:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, and you already said that they he had soft power.
44:50 --> 44:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
44:51 --> 44:56 [SPEAKER_00]: which to some listeners might sound like feminine, feminized power.
44:56 --> 44:57 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, David.
44:57 --> 45:06 [SPEAKER_02]: Quick shout out to Starfleet Academy and there is a, um, there are two male characters in there, one who's a Klingon and one who's a high for the other one.
45:06 --> 45:09 [SPEAKER_02]: And there are several moments in several episodes.
45:09 --> 45:14 [SPEAKER_02]: I won't spoil any of it, but you should, if you're, if you're listening to this podcast, you should, and you like,
45:14 --> 45:16 [SPEAKER_02]: But what we're done, you should be on that show.
45:16 --> 45:17 [SPEAKER_02]: You should be watching this show.
45:18 --> 45:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
45:18 --> 45:26 [SPEAKER_02]: But there are these two characters and they have intimate moments that are not about romance or sex or anything like that.
45:27 --> 45:33 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's so refreshing to see two men being able to be intimate physically.
45:34 --> 46:01 [SPEAKER_02]: an emotionally close in a way that is just too human being or you can't call them you mean they're not human beings but two males two males it's it's really refreshing so be you know just shout out for that show and shout out to our friends at the captain's pod for who are covering it right now so that's right and for and for all the homophobia still present in the 90s and the 2000s a lot in the 90s and 2000s
46:01 --> 46:02 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
46:02 --> 46:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
46:03 --> 46:05 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's intimate, but it's not romantic.
46:05 --> 46:06 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not sexual.
46:06 --> 46:10 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just an intimate moment between two men who are friends.
46:10 --> 46:13 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, fast friends, clearly, because he's been there a day.
46:13 --> 46:16 [SPEAKER_01]: But you know, it's, there's this care there.
46:16 --> 46:28 [SPEAKER_01]: There's this confidence in who you are and and your desire to help even if you don't have power, like yet now has no, you know, hard power.
46:28 --> 46:30 [SPEAKER_01]: I, you know, I think it's beautiful.
46:31 --> 46:36 [SPEAKER_01]: And so this mending of relationships that Alder is doing, between him and Ged,
46:37 --> 46:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, the relationship that also is starting to mend in this is the bottom and the princess.
46:45 --> 46:48 [SPEAKER_01]: There's all these relations coming together.
46:48 --> 46:53 [SPEAKER_01]: You could even draw a parallel with the wizards of palm.
46:53 --> 46:57 [SPEAKER_01]: The sorcerers of palm coming together with the sorcerers of rope, with the wizards of rope.
46:58 --> 46:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
46:58 --> 47:00 [SPEAKER_01]: That's another forging connection.
47:00 --> 47:04 [SPEAKER_01]: And of course, the dragons of humans have to figure out how to squash their beefs here.
47:04 --> 47:07 [SPEAKER_00]: and Carg and the islands.
47:07 --> 47:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, right.
47:08 --> 47:10 [SPEAKER_00]: And the Daryl corals.
47:10 --> 47:14 [SPEAKER_02]: This is all happening under the ruin of in the ring.
47:14 --> 47:15 [SPEAKER_00]: I haven't thought of it.
47:15 --> 47:16 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I've ever thought of it.
47:16 --> 47:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
47:17 --> 47:19 [SPEAKER_00]: The ruin of peace that was broken and was mended.
47:19 --> 47:20 [SPEAKER_00]: But they're again.
47:20 --> 47:21 [SPEAKER_02]: Took a while.
47:21 --> 47:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and we ended that heroic tale of the mending.
47:26 --> 47:29 [SPEAKER_00]: again without anything about all right.
47:30 --> 47:31 [SPEAKER_00]: So what does that mean for the world?
47:31 --> 47:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Right, exactly.
47:32 --> 47:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Are you a king?
47:33 --> 47:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Great.
47:34 --> 47:35 [UNKNOWN]: Wait.
47:35 --> 47:37 [SPEAKER_02]: What do I need to know?
47:37 --> 47:56 [SPEAKER_02]: Which is very cool in the second set of books, is that we get a glimpse in an insight into, like rebuilding a kingdom in the structures and having the, you know, all of the different institutions of how power flows out and decisions are made and information comes and goes,
47:56 --> 47:59 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a lot of work, right.
47:59 --> 48:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Well Marilyn correct me from wrong, but Tolkien originally intended to follow Aragorn rebuilding Gondor in some kind of work.
48:07 --> 48:16 [SPEAKER_01]: And then he kind of was like nah, I want to leave that untouched because I just it's it's a lot and I need the story to have a solution, right?
48:17 --> 48:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, maybe you're thinking of, well, I mean, he does make some illusion to it, you know, but.
48:22 --> 48:27 [SPEAKER_01]: I know, but I mean, like, wasn't there, it didn't even add some point have like a sketch of a possible idea.
48:27 --> 48:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, okay, that's what you're thinking of.
48:29 --> 48:40 [SPEAKER_00]: It, he wanted to find out what was happening in God or a hundred years after the death of Elisad, and he said it was just too depressing because there were young,
48:41 --> 48:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Gondorian boys running around playing at works, and there was a secret cult that was worshiping Sauron, and he said of Numanor that it's one of its prime lessons was that human beings don't do very well with good times.
48:59 --> 49:05 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not sure altogether agree with him on that, but I'm also
49:06 --> 49:16 [SPEAKER_00]: And again, the couple of series that have tried to answer the question of, okay, so you've destroyed the emperor, you've taken down the structures, whatever.
49:17 --> 49:42 [SPEAKER_01]: what are you going to do going forward you know bring back Palpatine let's do it again isn't it the Mandalorian in which we actually see the sort of rehabilitation center for former members of the imperial whatever yeah and i mean that's that's also like real to the real world right like we recruit exactly scientists in the US after world war two by the way john you need to do uh i didn't hear you uh clank at coin into the token jar
49:43 --> 49:45 [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, that's for the next chapter.
49:45 --> 49:47 [SPEAKER_00]: No, he starts now, all right.
49:49 --> 49:53 [SPEAKER_02]: There's one thing I wanted to, in less somebody else had another point.
49:53 --> 50:00 [SPEAKER_02]: I wanted to before we move to the next chapter, which is the whole thing with the cat.
50:00 --> 50:11 [SPEAKER_02]: It's not just a, oh, how did we keep this guy from sleeping, right?
50:11 --> 50:29 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, get used as the cat as an entry point to think about the problem and that here it is let me see so many so maybe the difference isn't language maybe it's this animals do need or good nor evil.
50:29 --> 50:31 [SPEAKER_02]: they do as they must do.
50:31 --> 50:41 [SPEAKER_02]: We may call what they do harmful or useful, but good and evil belong to us who choose to choose what we do.
50:41 --> 50:49 [SPEAKER_02]: We must choose and choose again the animal need only be and do where yote and their free.
50:49 --> 50:55 [SPEAKER_02]: So to be with an animal is to know a little freedom.
50:55 --> 51:01 [SPEAKER_02]: And this is, you know, this is Gued's entry point into unraveling the mystery.
51:01 --> 51:16 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think it's Leguin, you know, thinking about morality, you know, animals don't have morality the way that thinking people thinking people do, you know, be they elves or, or otherwise.
51:16 --> 51:26 [SPEAKER_00]: And I like that it's part of Ged's life experience that made him think about this because back in the very first book when he was barely badly wounded.
51:26 --> 51:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
51:27 --> 51:28 [SPEAKER_00]: His little pet.
51:28 --> 51:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, Tom.
51:29 --> 51:30 [SPEAKER_00]: The O-talk.
51:31 --> 51:40 [SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to hold her and let him back to life basically yeah so he took that and moved forward into this into this new situation.
51:40 --> 51:54 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm also so glad that we get to see Auntie Moss however briefly one more time and you know she can't speak anymore but she gestures so when Ged is asking her can I borrow a kitten for a while?
51:55 --> 52:01 [SPEAKER_00]: old witch raised her hand from the kitten in a royal gesture that said clearly it is yours and welcome.
52:04 --> 52:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Master Alder here is having trouble some dreams you see and I thought maybe having an animal with him nights might help him to ease the trouble.
52:13 --> 52:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah we have a loose definition of bar away apparently on the end of the night.
52:18 --> 52:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Well where are you going to go?
52:19 --> 52:21 [SPEAKER_02]: What you're going to
52:22 --> 52:29 [SPEAKER_01]: There's another quote I wanted to bring in here, which is what the doorkeeper in Elders retelling says to him.
52:30 --> 52:36 [SPEAKER_01]: He says not many of us know who or what we are, a glimpse is all we get.
52:36 --> 52:39 [SPEAKER_01]: And I really like that being said to Ged.
52:40 --> 52:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Because Ged got so much wisdom from like doorkeeper.
52:43 --> 52:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
52:44 --> 52:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Ged has always, I think, felt safe with the doorkeeper.
52:47 --> 52:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
52:48 --> 52:55 [SPEAKER_01]: And I feel like the doorkeeper said that for all of her, but also because he knew it would be related to Ged.
52:56 --> 52:56 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
52:57 --> 52:57 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
52:57 --> 52:57 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
52:58 --> 52:59 [SPEAKER_01]: I really love that.
52:59 --> 52:59 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
52:59 --> 53:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Nice.
53:01 --> 53:09 [SPEAKER_00]: And just in this first chapter, we do get some characterizations of Dahanu through the ways that others see her.
53:09 --> 53:10 [SPEAKER_05]: Mm-hmm.
53:10 --> 53:16 [SPEAKER_00]: So a couple of the village children are making... Rrrr!
53:16 --> 53:24 [SPEAKER_00]: And noises and making grimaces and clawed hands in the air and so forth to indicate that...
53:24 --> 53:28 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, this is how they see Tahanu as a monster.
53:28 --> 53:33 [SPEAKER_00]: I had afraid the girl, I fetched their eggs lots of times for Stoney's dad to carry them market.
53:34 --> 53:36 [SPEAKER_00]: One day she gave me peaches, the old lady.
53:36 --> 53:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Stoney says I stole him, but I never, go on, she ain't there neither of them is.
53:42 --> 53:51 [SPEAKER_00]: And then, Gad reflecting on his daughter, he could boast calling this house his
53:52 --> 53:56 [SPEAKER_00]: but to Hun who did, the dragon's wings were hers to fly on.
53:58 --> 54:00 [SPEAKER_00]: But she doesn't know how to do that yet.
54:04 --> 54:07 [SPEAKER_00]: She has the capacity but not the knowledge and that's gotta be frustrating.
54:07 --> 54:16 [SPEAKER_02]: And then that's something that's interesting, I think not only in the second trilogy, which it's, I think it's more show, but it's also, it's still present in the first, I think.
54:17 --> 54:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Is this idea of becoming?
54:23 --> 54:26 [SPEAKER_02]: The Gwyn's world is not a kind of static world.
54:27 --> 54:36 [SPEAKER_02]: We actually, we talk about character arcs and does a character go through it, you know, sort of a real and psychological or spiritual journeys and whatnot.
54:38 --> 54:53 [SPEAKER_02]: But in this, you know, in her world, the world has become, you know, it has been going through things and continues to go through things and we're just catching it at these times.
54:53 --> 55:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Life is not a static thing, it's not a static thing, but something that is kind of constant that get brings in, that I wanted to quote him on to is who would it all be we're going to get some love wisdom from get.
55:17 --> 55:20 [SPEAKER_01]: I guess we might have all thought that after he married Tenar.
55:20 --> 55:24 [SPEAKER_01]: He finally, he's learned a lot in these 15 years that he's been with Tenar.
55:25 --> 55:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
55:27 --> 55:30 [SPEAKER_01]: And he says, there's no less or greater than an absolute thing.
55:31 --> 55:34 [SPEAKER_01]: All or nothing at all, the true lover says.
55:34 --> 55:37 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's the truth of it.
55:38 --> 55:40 [SPEAKER_01]: My love will never die, he says.
55:41 --> 55:45 [SPEAKER_01]: He claims eternity and rightly, how can it die when it's life itself?
55:45 --> 55:50 [SPEAKER_01]: What do we know of eternity with the glimps we get of it when we enter in that bond?
55:52 --> 55:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
55:55 --> 55:56 [SPEAKER_00]: He's still very wise.
55:56 --> 55:57 [SPEAKER_01]: He is.
55:57 --> 56:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Get knows how to drop a verse.
56:01 --> 56:07 [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, it makes me think too general what you're saying before, is it Gilligan, is the author that you say?
56:07 --> 56:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's the one I always quote, especially in Earth City, I just feel like it applies so well to the series.
56:11 --> 56:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Right, and you know, then that get, get is, you know, for even being the head of the order of wizards.
56:22 --> 56:31 [SPEAKER_02]: Right, he, he is as trapped by that power structure as being the one who, you know, perpetuated it.
56:32 --> 56:39 [SPEAKER_01]: And the power structure doesn't know what to do without him.
56:39 --> 56:41 [SPEAKER_01]: They've not selected a new arts mage.
56:41 --> 56:43 [SPEAKER_01]: It's been like two decades now, basically.
56:44 --> 56:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, it's been a decade and a half and and I wonder if we can go back to that power with versus power over.
56:53 --> 56:56 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think get ever held power over the other mages.
56:56 --> 57:04 [SPEAKER_01]: He'll power it with whereas, you know, in Dragonfly, we talked about the master Summoner Thorian, the previous master Summoner and other one on this book.
57:04 --> 57:14 [SPEAKER_01]: But he was certainly a power over type of leader and he he without even being named archmage, right?
57:14 --> 57:24 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, the minute when he's arch made, the minute he has an excuse to go on an adventure with the future king with this book's Aragorn, he really just goes right into it.
57:24 --> 57:27 [SPEAKER_01]: He's like, screw it, kids, I'm gand off now.
57:27 --> 57:28 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm the wandering wizard.
57:29 --> 57:31 [SPEAKER_01]: And I love that about Ged.
57:31 --> 57:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I, you know, I don't think he would trade that journey with Aaron with LeBanan.
57:38 --> 57:39 [SPEAKER_01]: for anything.
57:39 --> 57:40 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think he would give his power back.
57:40 --> 57:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Again, his power, like, he, I don't think he would give that experience back to get a power back.
57:46 --> 57:50 [SPEAKER_00]: No, and let's remember he's a goat herder.
57:50 --> 57:51 [SPEAKER_01]: He loves it.
57:52 --> 58:08 [SPEAKER_00]: And the wizards, we don't know the backgrounds of all of them, but I think we can assume that a lot of them came from what some might view as higher class membership,
58:08 --> 58:12 [SPEAKER_00]: just to get away from the intrigues and the power plays.
58:12 --> 58:16 [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, there's pseudo-courtiness of it all.
58:17 --> 58:37 [SPEAKER_02]: But that brings up an interesting conundrum, which is within the world of people, power that isn't claimed by some one or some institution will be claimed by another.
58:37 --> 59:01 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think part of without being too current with the politics and not speaking politically about any particular candidate or party, we can see right now in our modern American politics is that there's a lot of unused power right now and it's being claimed by
59:02 --> 59:13 [SPEAKER_02]: in ways that we don't necessarily agree, but it's just being claimed and being used in ways that it's not intended, but because it was lying there unclaimed, somebody else could pick it up.
59:15 --> 59:17 [SPEAKER_00]: And the ones who pick it up are the ones who want to be powerful.
59:18 --> 59:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
59:18 --> 59:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
59:19 --> 59:20 [SPEAKER_00]: And particularly want to have power over.
59:21 --> 59:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Power over, right?
59:22 --> 59:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
59:22 --> 59:26 [SPEAKER_00]: So speaking of quarterly behaviors, shall we move on to the court?
59:26 --> 59:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, let's do it.
59:28 --> 59:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because we may end up
59:31 --> 59:33 [SPEAKER_01]: We're not breaking this podcast against this.
59:33 --> 59:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we're pushing through to be four hours.
59:35 --> 59:36 [SPEAKER_01]: And we're doing it tonight.
59:37 --> 59:38 [SPEAKER_00]: We're getting done with it.
59:38 --> 59:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, chapter two, Alder is received at court by King LeBannon, who reads him with simple courtesy and receives the letter from Sparrowhawk, which is Geds Houston.
59:50 --> 59:57 [SPEAKER_00]: He welcomes Alder to stay in the palace with Tug the kitten, and the next day deliver a verbal message to Tahannu from her father.
59:58 --> 01:00:05 [SPEAKER_00]: The news of the possible weakening of the wall between the worlds of living and dead comes on top of two long-term political situations.
01:00:07 --> 01:00:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Of so-called barbarian king and dragons, seeking peace for relationships with the cargs, Le Benin finds himself offered a cargo-spincess and marriage to ensure the peace.
01:00:19 --> 01:00:26 [SPEAKER_00]: But he feels like a rat in a trap, which significantly tries his usually courteous and patient
01:00:27 --> 01:00:34 [SPEAKER_00]: To nod herself a woman who escaped with get from the car along a go is surprised and dismayed by Lebanon's harsh attitude.
01:00:36 --> 01:00:39 [SPEAKER_00]: The reason to nod and to Hanoo at our court is dragons.
01:00:40 --> 01:00:45 [SPEAKER_00]: The dragons have been harrying folk in the western island ruining their livelihoods in chasing them out.
01:00:46 --> 01:01:01 [SPEAKER_00]: LeBanan calls wizard on X of Rook, Tesla, the merchant king, Captain, and Tahanu, daughter of Kalesen, the eldest dragon, to come with him and a handful of trusted soldiers to parlay with the dragons that he cannot destroy.
01:01:03 --> 01:01:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Tahanu is able to speak the old speech of dragons, and arranges for Omirian, once a woman known as Dragonfly, to meet the king in the city and tell him why the dragons are revealing.
01:01:18 --> 01:01:26 [SPEAKER_01]: This, you know, it's funny that like we have a long, long chapter at first where two people are just sitting down and having a conversation for most of it.
01:01:26 --> 01:01:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:01:27 --> 01:01:33 [SPEAKER_01]: And then we have this like massive plot dump where everybody's running around, different people are doing different things.
01:01:34 --> 01:01:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, I don't know.
01:01:36 --> 01:01:37 [SPEAKER_01]: I just think it's funny.
01:01:38 --> 01:01:39 [SPEAKER_01]: The way this book is past.
01:01:41 --> 01:01:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:01:42 --> 01:01:45 [SPEAKER_01]: The barman is a complicated guy, huh?
01:01:45 --> 01:01:48 [SPEAKER_01]: I, you know, I go in there and I'm like, all right, this is Eric born, right?
01:01:48 --> 01:01:50 [SPEAKER_01]: This is this is going to be, you know, the returned king.
01:01:50 --> 01:01:52 [SPEAKER_02]: He's not, he's not.
01:01:52 --> 01:01:55 [SPEAKER_02]: He's not a little, uh, a coin dropping sound.
01:01:56 --> 01:01:57 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, all right.
01:01:57 --> 01:02:03 [SPEAKER_01]: That's me, I don't have a coin.
01:02:03 --> 01:02:11 [SPEAKER_01]: So anyway, but he's not Eric born.
01:02:11 --> 01:02:13 [SPEAKER_01]: kind of a brat about a lot of things.
01:02:14 --> 01:02:16 [SPEAKER_01]: It's interesting because he's a kid.
01:02:17 --> 01:02:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Not anymore.
01:02:17 --> 01:02:20 [SPEAKER_01]: It's still like he's still a kid.
01:02:20 --> 01:02:22 [SPEAKER_01]: It's been 15 years since he took the throne.
01:02:23 --> 01:02:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, but how old was he then?
01:02:24 --> 01:02:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, so what is he?
01:02:25 --> 01:02:26 [SPEAKER_01]: 13?
01:02:26 --> 01:02:26 [SPEAKER_01]: He's there.
01:02:26 --> 01:02:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I'm 32.
01:02:28 --> 01:02:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Are you ready to be king?
01:02:30 --> 01:02:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe if you were not, but responsibility.
01:02:32 --> 01:02:34 [SPEAKER_01]: But here's the thing.
01:02:34 --> 01:02:37 [SPEAKER_01]: is that he is ready to be king in most ways.
01:02:38 --> 01:02:39 [SPEAKER_01]: He is very fair in his rule.
01:02:40 --> 01:02:42 [SPEAKER_01]: He is beloved by his people.
01:02:42 --> 01:02:45 [SPEAKER_01]: He has their safety in mind, but he's not reactionary.
01:02:46 --> 01:02:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Amazing king.
01:02:48 --> 01:02:51 [SPEAKER_01]: What a weird person when it comes to finding a queen.
01:02:51 --> 01:03:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, because he was a prince, most of his life, a prince on endlot, and had a lot more freedom in that.
01:03:01 --> 01:03:04 [SPEAKER_00]: He would never would have had to make a political marriage.
01:03:04 --> 01:03:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
01:03:05 --> 01:03:08 [SPEAKER_00]: And I guess nobody ever really awakened him to that notion.
01:03:09 --> 01:03:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Underneath all that is this fear.
01:03:13 --> 01:03:14 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm going to read a quote here.
01:03:15 --> 01:03:28 [SPEAKER_00]: And it seems to him now that the memory of that land, the darkness of it, the dust, was always in his mind just under the bright various play and movement of the days, although we always looked away from it.
01:03:29 --> 01:03:35 [SPEAKER_00]: He looked away because he could not bear the knowledge that in the end, that was where he would come again.
01:03:37 --> 01:03:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Come alone, unshampioned, and forever.
01:03:41 --> 01:03:45 [SPEAKER_00]: To stand empty-eyed, unspeaking, in the shadows of a shadow city.
01:03:46 --> 01:03:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Never to see sunlight, or drink water, or touch, a living hand.
01:03:56 --> 01:04:01 [SPEAKER_00]: LeBan and went to the land of the dead and walked it from one end to the other.
01:04:02 --> 01:04:03 [SPEAKER_01]: That's interesting.
01:04:03 --> 01:04:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Also, I didn't even consider the path of a dead of the dead as a parallel, but that actually is perhaps the best parallel we have to the dry land, because it is men and I'm using medicine race and talking.
01:04:18 --> 01:04:22 [SPEAKER_01]: But humans being kept from
01:04:23 --> 01:04:43 [SPEAKER_01]: from the gift of death exactly by some but the differences in well i guess that the the the the oathbreakers kind of did do it to themselves right but it was intentional in earth sea it was much more intentional in earth sea it was an intention to cheat death
01:04:44 --> 01:04:54 [SPEAKER_02]: And this is what I was saying at the top in the mildly warm take section, or if you want to call it, that
01:04:55 --> 01:05:09 [SPEAKER_02]: that she's dealing with this question of mortality as Tolkien was, Jink, that, you know, Tolkien sets up this world where you're serially long-gevelled, what is it, though?
01:05:09 --> 01:05:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, if you're an elf, you're serially long-gevelled.
01:05:11 --> 01:05:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Right, whereas humans, oh, hey, guess what?
01:05:14 --> 01:05:15 [SPEAKER_02]: You get a gift.
01:05:15 --> 01:05:16 [SPEAKER_02]: You get to die.
01:05:16 --> 01:05:19 [SPEAKER_02]: and what did the people in this world do?
01:05:19 --> 01:05:25 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, well, we're going to, you know, monkey with the system so that we don't die.
01:05:25 --> 01:05:27 [SPEAKER_02]: And then where do they end up?
01:05:28 --> 01:05:32 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, the drylands really did bother me in the farthest shore.
01:05:32 --> 01:05:35 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm so glad that she came back to revise them.
01:05:35 --> 01:05:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Isn't that interesting?
01:05:37 --> 01:05:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Like she created this thing over here, and then like that was a kind of
01:05:42 --> 01:05:47 [SPEAKER_02]: hidden thing that then emerged and grew over time.
01:05:47 --> 01:05:52 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what she, sorry, I kind of got you off, Gary, I'll pick it, pick your thought back up.
01:05:53 --> 01:05:59 [SPEAKER_01]: No, it is interesting because it feels like it was planned, even though it doesn't seem to have been.
01:05:59 --> 01:05:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
01:06:00 --> 01:06:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, that's the revisioning again.
01:06:02 --> 01:06:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:06:03 --> 01:06:05 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's just right writing, right?
01:06:05 --> 01:06:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Is this, is this, why did I have, we'll be being tortured at death?
01:06:11 --> 01:06:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe I should fix that for them.
01:06:14 --> 01:06:41 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to find out the reasons for it, not just I have to fix this, but trusting in the solidity and the strength of her own storytelling, the world that she created, knowing that she could never possibly know everything there was to know about Earthsea, but picking
01:06:41 --> 01:06:42 [SPEAKER_00]: make her mad, you know.
01:06:43 --> 01:06:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, as I believe the king says, he says the world's vast and strange hara, but no vaster and no stranger than our minds are.
01:06:54 --> 01:06:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Think of that sometimes.
01:06:56 --> 01:07:16 [SPEAKER_02]: So the other week, it was our winter break for our school district here and I one day took my daughter and her friend to one of those arcade trampoline, ninjamees, you know, giant warehouse theme park things.
01:07:16 --> 01:07:22 [SPEAKER_02]: and I was reading my book, the book there, and I came across that passage.
01:07:22 --> 01:07:29 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sitting here among all the blips and bloops and lights and kids running around, you know, and jumping on on these, you know, weird contraptions.
01:07:29 --> 01:07:31 [SPEAKER_02]: I thought, yes, the world is vast and strange.
01:07:34 --> 01:07:35 [SPEAKER_00]: So, very good.
01:07:35 --> 01:07:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:07:36 --> 01:07:40 [SPEAKER_00]: So we see tonight a replaced in a court again.
01:07:41 --> 01:07:51 [SPEAKER_00]: she was in a quarterly situation from the age of six and managed to escape it with yet when she left her, the island of her birth, or the realm of her birth.
01:07:52 --> 01:08:02 [SPEAKER_00]: And recognizes the ambitions, rivalries, passions, complicities, collusions, all of the sort of stuff that simmers below the polite surface.
01:08:03 --> 01:08:04 [SPEAKER_00]: And she's homesick.
01:08:05 --> 01:08:08 [SPEAKER_00]: She just wants to get back to get into her house.
01:08:09 --> 01:08:16 [SPEAKER_00]: She came because she was called for, but also because Tahanu would not have gone without her.
01:08:16 --> 01:08:18 [SPEAKER_00]: And so this is another theme throughout the book.
01:08:18 --> 01:08:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Is this still, I mean, Tahanu is like 25 years old now.
01:08:23 --> 01:08:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and she feels so much like a little girl still.
01:08:27 --> 01:08:31 [SPEAKER_00]: She does, and she's, well, she doesn't know completely who she is.
01:08:31 --> 01:08:38 [SPEAKER_00]: She's told she's the daughter of the oldest and the most powerful of dragons, and she's clearly also human.
01:08:38 --> 01:08:39 [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
01:08:39 --> 01:08:52 [SPEAKER_00]: She look at the treatment that she receives in her own village, and know that life isn't incredibly difficult for her, and her mother and her father are the only places of safety for her.
01:08:53 --> 01:08:55 [SPEAKER_00]: and so tonight has to take care of both of them.
01:08:56 --> 01:08:58 [SPEAKER_00]: And again, Liguin describes it.
01:09:00 --> 01:09:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Two scared girls who didn't know how to take hold of their power.
01:09:07 --> 01:09:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Can I ask you to clarify this?
01:09:09 --> 01:09:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Because this is what I read from it, from the implication, but I want a Euroresident or C expert.
01:09:14 --> 01:09:17 [SPEAKER_01]: So, Erian is a,
01:09:18 --> 01:09:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Dragonborn abung humans, and Teanu is a human born among dragons.
01:09:25 --> 01:09:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Is that right?
01:09:26 --> 01:09:27 [SPEAKER_00]: She's another dragonborn abung humans.
01:09:28 --> 01:09:30 [SPEAKER_01]: I thought that they were saying they were two sides of the same coin.
01:09:31 --> 01:09:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, but there are other examples which will at the end of the book we see that there are humans who are born as dragons in the dragon realm.
01:09:47 --> 01:09:50 [SPEAKER_00]: as well as dragons born as humans in the human realm.
01:09:51 --> 01:09:55 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's why the divide, the wall, is such an obscenity.
01:09:55 --> 01:09:55 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
01:09:56 --> 01:09:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Because it imposes this.
01:09:59 --> 01:10:27 [SPEAKER_01]: either or situation this binary that shouldn't be this and yet there's a division at the end right like there is this Finality, but it's made whole it's made whole it's made whole it's made whole but also they say that there will be no more Splitting right there will be no more dragons born among humans there will be no more humans born among dragons Yeah, the tahano in the area and over the last ones they make that very clear and it seems like the dragons have left this plane of existence They have gone away on the other wind
01:10:27 --> 01:10:52 [SPEAKER_02]: And so it's made whole and yet it's divided right there is a loss, but it's it's This is sort of the paradox of of duality and monality what is the mono monism and dualism Right, you know are you or two sides of a coin right is one coin two sides kind of thing
01:10:52 --> 01:10:59 [SPEAKER_00]: I also think it's a recognition that humans when faced with power are almost inevitably going to try and take it.
01:10:59 --> 01:10:59 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
01:11:00 --> 01:11:20 [SPEAKER_00]: And that was what that was what split them in the first place was, well, two things, humans for your death, but also the desire to take the old speech, the language of the dragons, and turn it into a system of magic, which would give them power over.
01:11:21 --> 01:11:38 [SPEAKER_00]: And both of those things are just anathema to the dragon, which is very powerful that has no wish to have any kind of in-combrance, including power over, because power over ultimately is an in-combrance.
01:11:39 --> 01:11:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
01:11:41 --> 01:11:51 [SPEAKER_00]: And the bringing in of Kharg is important in the Khargish princess and to nod herself who was born
01:11:51 --> 01:11:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Remembering that she was told, only those outcasts by the earth itself, remember this.
01:11:58 --> 01:12:03 [SPEAKER_00]: The old powers, the dark sorcerers of the heartic lands were not reborn.
01:12:04 --> 01:12:08 [SPEAKER_00]: When they died, so set the cards, they did not rejoin the living world.
01:12:09 --> 01:12:14 [SPEAKER_00]: But went to a dreary place of half-being where winged but flightless, neither bird nor human.
01:12:14 --> 01:12:17 [SPEAKER_00]: They must endure without hope.
01:12:17 --> 01:12:23 [SPEAKER_00]: how the priestess Cossill had relished to telling her about the terrible fate of those boastful enemies of the God King.
01:12:24 --> 01:12:28 [SPEAKER_00]: There's souls doomed to be cast out of the world of light forever.
01:12:29 --> 01:12:36 [SPEAKER_00]: But the afterlife get had told her of where he had said his people went that changeless land of cold dust in shadow.
01:12:37 --> 01:12:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Was that any less jury, any less terrible?
01:12:40 --> 01:12:44 [SPEAKER_01]: fascinating that she flips it on its head, right?
01:12:44 --> 01:12:46 [SPEAKER_01]: She flips the tunes about to one on his head.
01:12:46 --> 01:12:49 [SPEAKER_01]: It's at the, you know, the quote unquote barbarians.
01:12:49 --> 01:12:50 [SPEAKER_01]: We're actually correct.
01:12:51 --> 01:12:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
01:12:52 --> 01:12:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
01:12:53 --> 01:12:54 [SPEAKER_00]: And here we see the introduction.
01:12:55 --> 01:12:59 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm pretty sure it part of Dallas thinking is when you die, you return.
01:12:59 --> 01:13:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:13:00 --> 01:13:27 [SPEAKER_02]: to nature, not Tolkienian at all, not at all, not at least, not in this lightest, not even a little bit, which I think is great because it means that she can be in conversation with Tolkien, we can be in conversation with both of them, and she's not just drafting
01:13:28 --> 01:13:41 [SPEAKER_02]: And the structures and the, the world building as Azimov did is Tolkin did, but is trying to explore a different question that is her journey, her life's journey, and her life's questions.
01:13:42 --> 01:13:45 [SPEAKER_01]: It feels like an Azimov Herbert relationship, right?
01:13:46 --> 01:13:50 [SPEAKER_01]: It's these two creators exploring similar themes and perhaps reaching different outcomes.
01:13:51 --> 01:13:53 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I think it is exactly John.
01:13:54 --> 01:14:05 [SPEAKER_00]: These are important human questions that will probably be asked for all of time, and different people are going to answer them differently, different religions, different philosophies, all of that.
01:14:06 --> 01:14:14 [SPEAKER_02]: And one of the things I love about the Gwyn is you can't see me doing this on the podcast, but I'm showing it at my hands.
01:14:14 --> 01:14:23 [SPEAKER_02]: The Gwyn does it in like this much of a text where Azimov and Tolkien were like, you know, are we dating?
01:14:23 --> 01:14:25 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm doing the part to write these stories.
01:14:25 --> 01:14:35 [SPEAKER_02]: She does it so eloquently and so efficiently and yet so poignantly in a third of what they do it in.
01:14:36 --> 01:14:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Her beauty of economy of language and use of words is phenomenal.
01:14:40 --> 01:14:49 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm going to bring in a third property here now because when you held your arms out, it said, ah, and I thought, ah, so-and-so it's a river.
01:14:49 --> 01:14:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Arms so-and-so-and-so-and-so-and-so-and-so-and-so-and-so-and-so-and-so.
01:14:51 --> 01:14:55 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's an archbishop, I think.
01:14:56 --> 01:15:08 [SPEAKER_02]: There was something too, you know, that when you talk about that, we'll be, you know, part of our existence is to wrestle with these questions for a long time, like, you know, when I'm going to be answering it.
01:15:09 --> 01:15:13 [SPEAKER_02]: And that may be think about this one quote where LeBanan has the stone.
01:15:13 --> 01:15:16 [SPEAKER_02]: He opened his palm, looked down at the little black stone.
01:15:16 --> 01:15:19 [SPEAKER_02]: He held the closest hand on it again.
01:15:20 --> 01:15:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:15:20 --> 01:15:29 [SPEAKER_02]: And what that made me think about is that we can't escape in our lives in our primary world lives here.
01:15:29 --> 01:15:31 [SPEAKER_02]: We can't escape pain.
01:15:31 --> 01:15:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Pain is a natural function of life.
01:15:35 --> 01:15:40 [SPEAKER_02]: As a parent, I can't stop my child from experiencing pain at some point.
01:15:40 --> 01:15:42 [SPEAKER_02]: It's just the way that we're made.
01:15:42 --> 01:15:46 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that has got to be one of the worst aspects of being a pair.
01:15:47 --> 01:15:48 [SPEAKER_02]: And you have to accept it.
01:15:48 --> 01:15:59 [SPEAKER_02]: I remember the first time my daughter had, I don't know, maybe it was a right, you know, some cold virus thing that there's whatever that particular one that kids often get early on.
01:15:59 --> 01:16:08 [SPEAKER_02]: And she, you know, she had always running a fever and she was congested and all that stuff and she's an infant and I was like, okay, like we've, you know, she's got the medicine she needs.
01:16:08 --> 01:16:09 [SPEAKER_02]: She's got the hydration she needs.
01:16:09 --> 01:16:13 [SPEAKER_02]: She has the warm safe environment she needs and she's got to do it from here on out.
01:16:13 --> 01:16:21 [SPEAKER_02]: There's not much more I can do, you know, even the hospital couldn't do much more if we want if, you know, we had to take her there.
01:16:22 --> 01:16:23 [SPEAKER_02]: Obviously we didn't.
01:16:23 --> 01:16:23 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:16:24 --> 01:16:29 [SPEAKER_02]: And it really was that moment where I was like, oh, I can only do so much as a parent.
01:16:30 --> 01:16:31 [SPEAKER_02]: And at some point it's up to her.
01:16:33 --> 01:16:33 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
01:16:33 --> 01:16:35 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, and it was a metaphor for her life, right?
01:16:35 --> 01:16:38 [SPEAKER_02]: As she grows and as it becomes a person.
01:16:38 --> 01:16:45 [SPEAKER_02]: And so, you know, that LeBan and keeps the stone in his pocket to remind himself of this journey.
01:16:46 --> 01:16:49 [SPEAKER_02]: to stay in town, which makes him a good ruler, right?
01:16:49 --> 01:16:52 [SPEAKER_00]: He knows exactly, David, exactly.
01:16:52 --> 01:17:04 [SPEAKER_00]: The stone that he picked up in the mountains of pain when he didn't get crossed the dry land of this death which is even more horrible than death in a way.
01:17:04 --> 01:17:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Because power, when you're in that power structure, you can become disassociated very easily with the effects of your power.
01:17:16 --> 01:17:16 [SPEAKER_02]: of that.
01:17:17 --> 01:17:18 [SPEAKER_00]: You know what reminds me of?
01:17:19 --> 01:17:39 [SPEAKER_00]: It reminds me of whenever the Roman generals would have a triumph and returned to the eternal city having conquered however many thousands of so-called barbarians and he's riding triumphantly and this chariot through the triumphal arch supposedly at his feet.
01:17:40 --> 01:17:44 [SPEAKER_00]: crouched down so that not my right, see it was a person whispering to him.
01:17:44 --> 01:17:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Remember, you are mortal.
01:17:46 --> 01:17:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Can we talk about Tahannu a little bit?
01:17:48 --> 01:17:52 [SPEAKER_00]: I think for the first time in this chapter, we see her using her power.
01:17:53 --> 01:17:55 [SPEAKER_00]: And everybody who watches it is absolutely astounded.
01:17:57 --> 01:17:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Medo!
01:17:59 --> 01:18:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Tahannu called and the answer came back like an echo prolonged.
01:18:02 --> 01:18:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Medo!
01:18:05 --> 01:18:08 [SPEAKER_00]: What does it mean, LeBananas bending onics?
01:18:08 --> 01:18:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Sister, brother, the wizard whispered.
01:18:12 --> 01:18:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Tahanu was offer horse had tossed her reins to Yene and walking forward down the slight slope to where the dragon hovered.
01:18:19 --> 01:18:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Its long wings beating quick and short like a hovering hawks.
01:18:23 --> 01:18:29 [SPEAKER_00]: But these wings were a 50 feet from tip to tip and as they beat they made a sound like kettle drums or rattles of brass.
01:18:30 --> 01:18:36 [SPEAKER_00]: And she came closer to it a little curl of fire escaped from the dragon's long long toothed open mouth.
01:18:38 --> 01:18:44 [SPEAKER_00]: She held up her hand, not the slender brown hand, but the burned one, the claw.
01:18:45 --> 01:18:50 [SPEAKER_00]: The scarring of her arm and shoulder kept her from fully raising it, she could barely reach as high as her head.
01:18:52 --> 01:18:58 [SPEAKER_00]: The dragon sank a little in the air, lowered its head and touched her hand with its lean, layered, scaled snout.
01:19:00 --> 01:19:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Like a dog, an animal greeting and sniffing, Levant and thought, like a falcon, steeping
01:19:07 --> 01:19:09 [SPEAKER_00]: like a king bowing to a queen.
01:19:12 --> 01:19:30 [SPEAKER_00]: So she tells them that this dragon has told her that she will tell the other dragons who have been attacking the Western mountains to hold off and that this dragon will come to the center of having her to the council to tell them why the dragons are attacked.
01:19:31 --> 01:19:37 [SPEAKER_01]: I know we've been attacking, but I'm going to fly right into your middle of your city center and it's going to be very chill.
01:19:38 --> 01:19:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, right, right.
01:19:38 --> 01:19:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
01:19:40 --> 01:19:44 [SPEAKER_00]: On access to her, my lady, Tahannu, I have never seen so brave and act.
01:19:45 --> 01:19:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Nor I, Tossless said, I was afraid Tahannu said in her voice that carried no emotion, but I called him brother and he called me sister.
01:19:58 --> 01:20:04 [SPEAKER_00]: And I wanted to bring this up because the final sentence here is her disfigurement made it seem that she had two faces.
01:20:05 --> 01:20:15 [SPEAKER_00]: And Brian A63, I did not forget your question for two years, three years ago when it was, when you asked, why was it her face?
01:20:16 --> 01:20:18 [SPEAKER_00]: So it disfigured in that way.
01:20:19 --> 01:20:25 [SPEAKER_00]: And reading this, it made me think, perhaps this is a reminder that she is a both-hand being.
01:20:26 --> 01:20:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
01:20:28 --> 01:20:29 [SPEAKER_00]: That she has these two faces.
01:20:29 --> 01:20:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:20:29 --> 01:20:30 [SPEAKER_00]: These two sides.
01:20:32 --> 01:20:36 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's signaling to us the duality here.
01:20:37 --> 01:20:40 [SPEAKER_00]: And the use of animal imagery in describing this whole thing.
01:20:42 --> 01:20:50 [SPEAKER_02]: And the idea that animals don't choose, nor do dragons necessarily choose because they're speaking is the making.
01:20:52 --> 01:20:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
01:20:52 --> 01:20:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
01:20:53 --> 01:20:53 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
01:20:53 --> 01:20:55 [SPEAKER_02]: There is no choice there.
01:20:56 --> 01:21:08 [SPEAKER_00]: And even as I'm reading this, I'm thinking the reason why Tahanu has said such a hard time in her life is because she has not been in her own milieu.
01:21:11 --> 01:21:13 [SPEAKER_00]: She's not been with her own people.
01:21:13 --> 01:21:25 [SPEAKER_00]: She's not been in a place where her incredible power can be recognized and used and not provoke fear, but instead provoke wonder.
01:21:26 --> 01:21:30 [SPEAKER_00]: at her courage and her bravely to call a dragon brother.
01:21:33 --> 01:21:49 [SPEAKER_02]: I think you can think about a lot of stories of in different communities, gay community, trans community disabled communities where the feeling powerful and being connected to community versus not.
01:21:49 --> 01:21:52 [SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of coding of that in this story here.
01:21:53 --> 01:21:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:21:54 --> 01:21:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I agree.
01:21:56 --> 01:21:56 [SPEAKER_00]: I agree.
01:21:58 --> 01:22:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, let's connect some more people on behalf of you.
01:22:01 --> 01:22:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Can I just really quick, because we started, we mentioned this before, and this is the chapter we're at at, did Ged believe that because he had lost his wizardry power, LeBanan must think less of him, must despise him.
01:22:19 --> 01:22:21 [SPEAKER_02]: So the reason why Ged was staying away, right?
01:22:21 --> 01:22:28 [SPEAKER_02]: This, you know, he doesn't want to affect or influence
01:22:28 --> 01:22:33 [SPEAKER_02]: even though he has no power, you know, he has a power of just in his being, being around.
01:22:33 --> 01:22:35 [SPEAKER_02]: So he doesn't want to be there to mess with things.
01:22:36 --> 01:22:37 [SPEAKER_02]: Which is interesting.
01:22:37 --> 01:22:44 [SPEAKER_02]: But then what's interesting is LeBanan's mind runs away with like, oh, why, why is he not here?
01:22:44 --> 01:22:44 [SPEAKER_02]: Whatever.
01:22:45 --> 01:22:50 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's our human minds when we have a void of information, we're gonna fill it.
01:22:51 --> 01:22:53 [SPEAKER_01]: and often with fears, right, and things like that.
01:22:53 --> 01:22:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
01:22:53 --> 01:22:54 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm most invariably.
01:22:54 --> 01:23:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Can I just say that like, get us just feeding his goats, and I feel like if he heard that he'd be like, why are you guys so obsessed with me?
01:23:01 --> 01:23:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Like what?
01:23:02 --> 01:23:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Why can you guys just leave me alone?
01:23:03 --> 01:23:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:23:04 --> 01:23:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we're even told that Alder has a hard time being around yet because he still sees a starch mage.
01:23:12 --> 01:23:13 [SPEAKER_00]: We should not have a wife.
01:23:14 --> 01:23:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Right, right, right.
01:23:15 --> 01:23:27 [SPEAKER_00]: And so that same kind of effect, what Cretary Project calls the heavy weight on the rubber sheet of the universe, you know, he is the elephant in the room.
01:23:28 --> 01:23:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Even though he's, he doesn't want to be, it's the last thing he wants to be, he just wants to be left alone.
01:23:35 --> 01:23:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:23:36 --> 01:23:43 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's interesting we have a tradition in American politics that when a president is no longer the president, they just go quiet.
01:23:44 --> 01:23:48 [SPEAKER_02]: and they just are sort of out there and they do maybe some humanitarian, you know, they do a little this or that.
01:23:48 --> 01:23:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Some follow that better than others.
01:23:50 --> 01:23:55 [SPEAKER_02]: But some, well, yeah, some have, yes, but that, that was the tradition, I should say.
01:23:55 --> 01:24:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Is that because you just don't, you are that heavy weight on the rubber sheet, right?
01:24:00 --> 01:24:13 [SPEAKER_02]: You will pull your, because you had power once, people will relate to, even if you don't have that power anymore, people will still relate to you having had that power, like that you had that power.
01:24:13 --> 01:24:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:24:14 --> 01:24:29 [SPEAKER_00]: And all the more painful, if you are still grieving the loss of that power, and can't, they're trying to forget it through completely different things to do in a lifestyle and all the rest of it.
01:24:29 --> 01:24:30 [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, they keep pulling your back.
01:24:31 --> 01:24:35 [SPEAKER_02]: And you have the king looking up to you, like I am the king.
01:24:35 --> 01:24:39 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not supposed to look up to anybody, but here I am, you're a worshipping you.
01:24:39 --> 01:24:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:24:41 --> 01:24:41 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
01:24:41 --> 01:24:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:24:41 --> 01:24:43 [SPEAKER_02]: All right, John, we can move on now.
01:24:43 --> 01:24:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, we could keep talking about this.
01:24:45 --> 01:24:46 [SPEAKER_01]: I just thought everybody was done.
01:24:47 --> 01:24:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it'll come up again.
01:24:49 --> 01:24:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this all bleeds together.
01:24:50 --> 01:24:52 [SPEAKER_01]: That's why I was like, oh, let's read the next recap.
01:24:53 --> 01:24:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Marilyn, hit us.
01:24:55 --> 01:25:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Tenaud recalls, Tahan is fear of going along with the king and dreams that get is trapped with a culture's head and no wings.
01:25:04 --> 01:25:12 [SPEAKER_00]: She decides to visit the Cargish princess to coax her into stepping out from behind her thick red
01:25:13 --> 01:25:32 [SPEAKER_00]: The two women speak of dragons and to not realises that Sassarraq has important cargish knowledge of dragons in their ways with humans, that once many ages ago the wizards made a bargain with the dragons, called the Vedunran, established peace between the two peoples by separating them.
01:25:33 --> 01:25:42 [SPEAKER_00]: The dragons would travel to the far west and wizards would stay in the east, and as long
01:25:42 --> 01:25:44 [SPEAKER_00]: They could learn how to do sorcery.
01:25:46 --> 01:25:50 [SPEAKER_00]: The King's Party returns and Le Ben and tells us people that a dragon will be coming to a council.
01:25:52 --> 01:25:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Autumn, Irion, formerly Dragonfly.
01:25:54 --> 01:25:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, Dragonfly!
01:25:55 --> 01:26:06 [SPEAKER_00]: A rives at the palace and tells the King's Council that Kalesen said that once dragons and humans were one people, but had made the bargain of a vettiman.
01:26:07 --> 01:26:23 [SPEAKER_00]: After Cobb had rendered some dragons speechless, Kalesen came to take them back into the farthest west to fly on the other wind, leaving the wind of Earth forever, but that some of them objected wanting to drive humans out from the islands because they had broken their bargain.
01:26:23 --> 01:26:29 [SPEAKER_00]: When the Summoner, Florian returned from the dryland, even though he was dead.
01:26:30 --> 01:26:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Thus, unmaking the balance of the world.
01:26:33 --> 01:26:41 [SPEAKER_00]: The banan decides to go to imminent growth with Eurion, Tahanu, and a few others to find a way to restore the balance and the broken trust.
01:26:43 --> 01:26:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, mending.
01:26:46 --> 01:26:48 [SPEAKER_00]: The broken trust needs to be mended.
01:26:48 --> 01:26:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:26:50 --> 01:26:55 [SPEAKER_01]: And you can't just re-institute the old deal, you've got to forge something new.
01:26:56 --> 01:27:00 [SPEAKER_01]: I like that, you know, what's that Japanese art where you men things with gold?
01:27:01 --> 01:27:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I never remember the name, John.
01:27:03 --> 01:27:07 [SPEAKER_00]: I think we all know what you're talking about, but somebody's going to google it really fast and get the name.
01:27:08 --> 01:27:10 [SPEAKER_01]: pairing pottery with gold.
01:27:10 --> 01:27:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
01:27:14 --> 01:27:16 [SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of reminds me of that, right?
01:27:17 --> 01:27:26 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's funny because Ged tries to piece back together manually the the picture beginning, right?
01:27:26 --> 01:27:27 [SPEAKER_01]: And he does a bad job.
01:27:28 --> 01:27:33 [SPEAKER_01]: He kind of tries to restore it to what it was in a manual way.
01:27:34 --> 01:27:38 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's only
01:27:39 --> 01:27:41 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know the message of this, right?
01:27:41 --> 01:27:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Because he is restoring it to its previous state perhaps not or is he creating something new out of the pieces?
01:27:47 --> 01:27:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I have something of an idea.
01:27:49 --> 01:27:57 [SPEAKER_00]: All that is using magic to restore it to a wholeness that it no longer truly has.
01:27:58 --> 01:27:58 [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
01:27:59 --> 01:28:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Instead of using the gold to mend it in a way that some people say will make it even more beautiful.
01:28:07 --> 01:28:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:28:08 --> 01:28:11 [SPEAKER_00]: and to not deny that past history of brokenness.
01:28:11 --> 01:28:12 [SPEAKER_01]: And this has to be important, right?
01:28:13 --> 01:28:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Because the name of the first chapter is mending the green picture.
01:28:16 --> 01:28:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, oh, absolutely.
01:28:18 --> 01:28:19 [SPEAKER_00]: She wants us to think about this.
01:28:22 --> 01:28:24 [SPEAKER_02]: And in this chapter, don't we get a lot.
01:28:24 --> 01:28:26 [SPEAKER_02]: And this is where I fell off.
01:28:26 --> 01:28:29 [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm just going off on my old original highlighted notes.
01:28:29 --> 01:28:36 [SPEAKER_02]: OK. From the first time I read it, isn't this the section where we get a lot of insight into LeBanens,
01:28:36 --> 01:28:47 [SPEAKER_02]: rebuilding the kingdom, and rebuilding the throne room, and the structures and institutions of politics that he puts together.
01:28:48 --> 01:28:51 [SPEAKER_02]: So here he is, he's rebuilding the structures of power.
01:28:52 --> 01:29:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Because when you have people coming together, there is going to be power sloshing around and unless you have a way to harness that, it's going to be taken by other people.
01:29:00 --> 01:29:04 [SPEAKER_02]: And so this is all about mending.
01:29:05 --> 01:29:09 [SPEAKER_00]: And he's already using the wisdom that he got from his own journey across the right land.
01:29:11 --> 01:29:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Is he she's I don't wonder if in in this she's like,
01:29:16 --> 01:29:23 [SPEAKER_02]: making some suggestions about how to structure politics, you know, because there's the whole stuff about the counselors.
01:29:24 --> 01:29:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I think.
01:29:26 --> 01:29:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, and, and I wonder if, you know, there was kind of a divide between liberal feminist and radical feminists.
01:29:34 --> 01:29:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yes.
01:29:34 --> 01:29:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
01:29:35 --> 01:29:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Feminism, especially.
01:29:36 --> 01:29:42 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the divide continues, but it was especially apparent in second-aged feminism, which she is.
01:29:42 --> 01:29:43 [SPEAKER_01]: you don't pulling from here.
01:29:44 --> 01:29:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Second wave.
01:29:45 --> 01:29:46 [SPEAKER_01]: So thank you, second age.
01:29:46 --> 01:29:49 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm talking, I'm pulling, I think we've done this.
01:29:49 --> 01:29:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Jesus Christ.
01:29:50 --> 01:29:52 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you got a sound of it.
01:29:52 --> 01:29:54 [SPEAKER_02]: A $20 bill hitting the talking.
01:29:54 --> 01:29:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Bring it back to you.
01:29:55 --> 01:29:57 [SPEAKER_01]: I know I'm having some fun before that campaign now.
01:29:59 --> 01:30:01 [SPEAKER_01]: So my point is,
01:30:03 --> 01:30:19 [SPEAKER_01]: I wonder if the two ways of mending picture are the two approaches to feminism and the two approaches to solving this problem, right, is do a patchwork job on the system you have or tear it down and create something new?
01:30:22 --> 01:30:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I ran across something recently that said,
01:30:26 --> 01:30:33 [SPEAKER_00]: instead of trying to tear down the current system, live the system that you want to bring about.
01:30:36 --> 01:30:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Because as soon as you get into a tearing down motion, you're getting into a power over motion.
01:30:40 --> 01:30:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, that's tough.
01:30:43 --> 01:30:50 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think the history, political history, would show us that tearing down doesn't always work.
01:30:50 --> 01:30:55 [SPEAKER_02]: Because whoever is there to rebuild it is now power over.
01:30:55 --> 01:31:01 [SPEAKER_01]: It is often not the best member of a revolution that end up in charge afterward.
01:31:01 --> 01:31:05 [SPEAKER_00]: And what do they know about running a nation, a planet, a world, a government, whatever?
01:31:06 --> 01:31:09 [SPEAKER_00]: If they've been rebels all their lives, they've been thinking in a very different way.
01:31:09 --> 01:31:16 [SPEAKER_00]: And it is really hard to re-tool your mind to this new ways of thinking.
01:31:16 --> 01:31:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Let me tell you about a classic tell called Star Wars.
01:31:19 --> 01:31:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
01:31:20 --> 01:31:22 [SPEAKER_00]: I was in, of course, I was thinking, start right?
01:31:22 --> 01:31:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Like we've run the wall of the Death Star, but exactly, can we make a functional new Republic?
01:31:28 --> 01:31:46 [SPEAKER_01]: And you know, it's very interesting, like you look at even American history and you look at the way that they had the articles of Confederation, which could do nothing because they were so afraid of granting
01:31:47 --> 01:31:50 [SPEAKER_01]: I just think that all these, all these are very interesting.
01:31:50 --> 01:31:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Can the revolutionaries run the country?
01:31:52 --> 01:31:53 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, run the power.
01:31:54 --> 01:32:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, and now I'm thinking, of course, of the Ken Burns American Revolution in the realization that it was a civil war.
01:32:02 --> 01:32:03 [SPEAKER_00]: It was not a rebellion.
01:32:04 --> 01:32:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
01:32:04 --> 01:32:05 [SPEAKER_00]: It was a civil war.
01:32:05 --> 01:32:06 [SPEAKER_00]: And still is.
01:32:07 --> 01:32:09 [SPEAKER_00]: And one has to learn how to do with it.
01:32:10 --> 01:32:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Or we think about candidates.
01:32:13 --> 01:32:20 [SPEAKER_02]: who make great candidates, but horrible leaders, or who make horrible candidates, but would make great leaders.
01:32:21 --> 01:32:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Once I get there, I can't get there.
01:32:23 --> 01:32:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I want to read what a marvelous king, I won't call him a politician, but he sure knows his way around politically, says to his people.
01:32:35 --> 01:32:41 [SPEAKER_00]: So I tell you, the time has come when men and dragons must meet and talk.
01:32:42 --> 01:32:46 [SPEAKER_00]: When the dragon comes, do not fear it, do not fight it, do not flee it.
01:32:47 --> 01:32:49 [SPEAKER_00]: But welcome it in the sign of peace.
01:32:50 --> 01:32:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Greed it as you would greet a great Lord come in peace from afar and have no fear.
01:32:57 --> 01:33:05 [SPEAKER_00]: For we are well protected by the sword of Errath Akbe, by the ring of Elfaren and by the name of Mourad and by my own name I promise you.
01:33:05 --> 01:33:09 [SPEAKER_00]: So long as I live, I will defend this city and this realm.
01:33:11 --> 01:33:17 [SPEAKER_00]: They listened into breathless hush, a burst of cheers and shouts followed on his words as he turned and strode into the palace.
01:33:19 --> 01:33:21 [SPEAKER_00]: I thought it best to give them some warning.
01:33:21 --> 01:33:33 [SPEAKER_00]: He said in his usual quiet voice to Tahun who, and she nodded, he spoke to her as to a comrade, and she behaved as such, to nod in the court of years in your vise saw this.
01:33:33 --> 01:33:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Hmm, right, he's making a point.
01:33:35 --> 01:33:41 [SPEAKER_01]: This is a half-dragon woman publicly known.
01:33:42 --> 01:33:47 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, there are parameters to this challenge, this problem, whatever.
01:33:47 --> 01:33:50 [SPEAKER_00]: This is a story, it has a solution, it's a button.
01:33:50 --> 01:33:50 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
01:33:50 --> 01:34:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Golly Gosh, if we could be in a situation where combatants were able to find some way to do not fear, and sit down and talk.
01:34:04 --> 01:34:10 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if I buy that he gave them one good speech and they weren't panicking when a dragon came into town.
01:34:10 --> 01:34:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no.
01:34:11 --> 01:34:11 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure they were.
01:34:12 --> 01:34:12 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure they were.
01:34:13 --> 01:34:14 [SPEAKER_00]: But at least he warned them.
01:34:14 --> 01:34:21 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm you said before, you know, when we read about, um, Tahanu greeting the dragon and so forth.
01:34:21 --> 01:34:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Somebody mentioned, oh, oh, yeah.
01:34:23 --> 01:34:26 [SPEAKER_00]: And by the way, we're not going to have a dragon coming in the middle of the city.
01:34:26 --> 01:34:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
01:34:27 --> 01:34:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
01:34:28 --> 01:34:29 [SPEAKER_00]: So I had to say something.
01:34:30 --> 01:34:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I agree with that.
01:34:32 --> 01:34:35 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if the city was the best place to have this meeting.
01:34:35 --> 01:34:36 [SPEAKER_01]: But that's all right.
01:34:38 --> 01:34:39 [SPEAKER_01]: We got we got through it.
01:34:39 --> 01:34:42 [SPEAKER_01]: And I guess he had his lords gathered there already, right?
01:34:42 --> 01:34:47 [SPEAKER_01]: He had, they could be go through the fact that he has like a three-year period or something like that for each other.
01:34:47 --> 01:34:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's for that point.
01:34:47 --> 01:34:50 [SPEAKER_02]: She's like, hey, it's interesting.
01:34:50 --> 01:34:52 [SPEAKER_01]: She does a dip in exposition dump here.
01:34:52 --> 01:34:54 [SPEAKER_01]: And there's usually not a lot of exposition dumps in her work.
01:34:56 --> 01:34:59 [SPEAKER_00]: No, but given that politics does become so important here.
01:35:00 --> 01:35:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, yeah.
01:35:02 --> 01:35:03 [SPEAKER_00]: I guess we need that assertion about it.
01:35:05 --> 01:35:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
01:35:05 --> 01:35:07 [SPEAKER_00]: We haven't talked about Sussar Rakyat.
01:35:07 --> 01:35:08 [SPEAKER_00]: No, we really need to.
01:35:08 --> 01:35:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, this is her section, right?
01:35:10 --> 01:35:12 [SPEAKER_01]: This is where we finally really meet her.
01:35:13 --> 01:35:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
01:35:14 --> 01:35:20 [SPEAKER_00]: And it turns out that she's absolutely scared to death at first, because she's gone in among barbarian wizards who can kill her with a word.
01:35:21 --> 01:35:29 [SPEAKER_00]: And she flings herself on to not someone who can finally speak something that she understands.
01:35:29 --> 01:35:31 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, they didn't think about translators in advance.
01:35:31 --> 01:35:32 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
01:35:32 --> 01:35:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:35:33 --> 01:35:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, what was your dad doing?
01:35:34 --> 01:35:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Her dad didn't send her with anybody.
01:35:36 --> 01:35:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I guess I guess in their defense, it's been a very isolationist civilization.
01:35:42 --> 01:35:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Perhaps there are no translators within his court.
01:35:44 --> 01:36:00 [SPEAKER_00]: And oh, by the way, the only contact they have with the Archipelagans after those years of war and conflict was the archmage, and all snuck into their sacred cities, stole their sacred priestess, and stole the half of the ring that was supposed to remain there as a pledge.
01:36:00 --> 01:36:04 [SPEAKER_00]: So, what do they have to recommend them to protect them?
01:36:04 --> 01:36:04 [SPEAKER_01]: That's true.
01:36:05 --> 01:36:14 [SPEAKER_01]: That's true.
01:36:15 --> 01:36:16 [SPEAKER_00]: something like that.
01:36:16 --> 01:36:18 [SPEAKER_01]: You need the authorization of the ban intact after this one.
01:36:19 --> 01:36:19 [SPEAKER_00]: There we go.
01:36:20 --> 01:36:26 [SPEAKER_00]: So after she, no, it manages to comecess directly down a little bit and they start interacting and so forth.
01:36:28 --> 01:36:37 [SPEAKER_00]: There's this scene where they're walking in the garden, gazing into the moving branches of the willows over the softly moving water, feeling sad and weary.
01:36:38 --> 01:36:42 [SPEAKER_00]: To not, said, what do you need to do then, Princess?
01:36:43 --> 01:36:45 [SPEAKER_00]: is learn how to make him like you.
01:36:46 --> 01:36:47 [SPEAKER_00]: What else can you do?
01:36:47 --> 01:36:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Susirex shrugged mournfully.
01:36:51 --> 01:36:55 [SPEAKER_00]: It would help if you understood what he said, baga-gabagaba.
01:36:56 --> 01:36:57 [SPEAKER_00]: They all sound like that.
01:36:58 --> 01:37:00 [SPEAKER_00]: And we sound like that to them.
01:37:01 --> 01:37:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Come on, princess.
01:37:02 --> 01:37:06 [SPEAKER_00]: How can he like you if all he can, you can say to him is baga-gabagaba.
01:37:08 --> 01:37:09 [SPEAKER_01]: I have mixed feelings on this.
01:37:09 --> 01:37:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Go ahead.
01:37:10 --> 01:37:11 [SPEAKER_01]: You go for it.
01:37:11 --> 01:37:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
01:37:11 --> 01:37:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, there's the Liguen afterward.
01:37:14 --> 01:37:17 [SPEAKER_00]: She says in the text, the one who surprised me was Cessara.
01:37:19 --> 01:37:21 [SPEAKER_00]: I was never sure what she was going to say or do next.
01:37:22 --> 01:37:28 [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't even know what she looked like till she burst out of her red tent and hurled herself at tonight.
01:37:28 --> 01:37:35 [SPEAKER_00]: New winds were certainly blowing an earth sea and this one blew in very fresh from the east to the king's consternation and lied to light.
01:37:36 --> 01:37:36 [SPEAKER_01]: That's pretty funny.
01:37:36 --> 01:37:37 [SPEAKER_01]: I like that.
01:37:38 --> 01:37:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and yeah, it's very clearly coded for the Middle East and yeah, yeah, you know, putting Dales around women in all the rest of it.
01:37:50 --> 01:37:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Was it was it over the top?
01:37:51 --> 01:37:52 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
01:37:52 --> 01:37:54 [SPEAKER_00]: I perhaps to some people it is.
01:37:55 --> 01:37:58 [SPEAKER_01]: She's book about this book about 2001, right?
01:37:58 --> 01:37:59 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's what you said.
01:38:00 --> 01:38:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:38:00 --> 01:38:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Isn't she not still, you know, I mean, oh, a political marriage between a man and a woman, like these are still traditional forms, even though she's challenging the idea of gender and power at the same time, they're still an element of not that.
01:38:19 --> 01:38:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
01:38:19 --> 01:38:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Real policy.
01:38:20 --> 01:38:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god, do you know when this was released September 13, 2001, and she has a thing,
01:38:27 --> 01:38:28 [SPEAKER_01]: culture.
01:38:28 --> 01:38:30 [SPEAKER_01]: That is quite the timing.
01:38:30 --> 01:38:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Oops.
01:38:32 --> 01:38:50 [SPEAKER_00]: And yet not oops because she is humanizing this mysterious woman from the mysterious eastern countries who have been deemed barbarians and all, you know, who and gets childhood, you know, stormed his village and almost killed him.
01:38:50 --> 01:38:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, right.
01:38:51 --> 01:38:53 [SPEAKER_00]: So there's plenty of history both ways.
01:38:53 --> 01:38:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Unfortunately, I don't think that many
01:38:57 --> 01:38:58 [SPEAKER_00]: No, they were not.
01:38:58 --> 01:39:02 [SPEAKER_00]: And that may be why this book didn't get quite as much notice.
01:39:03 --> 01:39:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, although it's not explicit, like you could, if you wanted to be like, you know, in the heat of the post 9-11 fever, you could, you know, be like, this is a fantasy world.
01:39:14 --> 01:39:16 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think about it like that, you know?
01:39:16 --> 01:39:16 [SPEAKER_01]: There is.
01:39:17 --> 01:39:22 [SPEAKER_01]: And that, that also is part of why I think speculative fiction especially,
01:39:22 --> 01:39:42 [SPEAKER_01]: John perfection especially is great at examining our biases and examining our world because it gives you permission to let go of your biases and to look at relationships outside of your preconceived notions.
01:39:43 --> 01:39:48 [SPEAKER_01]: LeBanan, hey, maybe you should learn some cargas so that she could feel a little bit comfortable.
01:39:48 --> 01:39:49 [SPEAKER_00]: I- Well, there is that.
01:39:49 --> 01:39:55 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, though, I- I give her a little bit of a break because LeBanan has a very busy job.
01:39:56 --> 01:39:56 [SPEAKER_01]: He does.
01:39:56 --> 01:40:01 [SPEAKER_01]: And the princess's job all day is to kind of just be in her chambers and enjoy herself.
01:40:01 --> 01:40:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, and remember, in early on in the book.
01:40:05 --> 01:40:10 [SPEAKER_00]: She's trying to reach out to him and say, yes, what are you doing?
01:40:10 --> 01:40:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, yes, she does come a lot of cutter off.
01:40:12 --> 01:40:13 [SPEAKER_01]: She gives him a lot of grief.
01:40:14 --> 01:40:15 [SPEAKER_00]: And he cuts her off entirely.
01:40:16 --> 01:40:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:40:16 --> 01:40:23 [SPEAKER_00]: And instead of being, you know, reminding her of her own son, this, he did in the, in the, in the book, Tahano.
01:40:24 --> 01:40:25 [SPEAKER_00]: She doesn't recognize him.
01:40:26 --> 01:40:30 [SPEAKER_00]: He's become a stranger and he's very courteous and very distant.
01:40:30 --> 01:40:31 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
01:40:31 --> 01:40:33 [SPEAKER_00]: And she's pretty upset by that, too.
01:40:33 --> 01:40:37 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, she was treating him like a mother treats her son.
01:40:37 --> 01:40:38 [SPEAKER_00]: And he wouldn't have him it.
01:40:38 --> 01:40:41 [SPEAKER_00]: But that's because he's still struggling with this.
01:40:41 --> 01:40:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my God, I have to marry this woman.
01:40:43 --> 01:40:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
01:40:44 --> 01:40:45 [SPEAKER_01]: He's he's avoided.
01:40:46 --> 01:40:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely, because, you know, all of his life, very few people have told him, you have to do this.
01:40:52 --> 01:40:52 [SPEAKER_00]: I suspect.
01:40:52 --> 01:40:53 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
01:40:54 --> 01:40:55 [SPEAKER_02]: But he's...
01:40:55 --> 01:40:59 [SPEAKER_02]: he's feeling politically boxed in and he doesn't like that.
01:40:59 --> 01:41:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
01:41:00 --> 01:41:02 [SPEAKER_00]: But so is Sussarak.
01:41:02 --> 01:41:03 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, absolutely.
01:41:03 --> 01:41:06 [SPEAKER_00]: They're both being used by power members.
01:41:06 --> 01:41:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
01:41:06 --> 01:41:10 [SPEAKER_00]: We have to remember that both of these are people who are caught in their systems.
01:41:10 --> 01:41:12 [SPEAKER_00]: She's scared out of her life.
01:41:12 --> 01:41:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:41:13 --> 01:41:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Because she has never buried her face to any man.
01:41:17 --> 01:41:18 [SPEAKER_00]: presumably since babyhood.
01:41:18 --> 01:41:21 [SPEAKER_02]: And all she's hearing is about going back out, I'm going to black him up.
01:41:21 --> 01:41:23 [SPEAKER_02]: And she thinks she's going to be sacrificed.
01:41:23 --> 01:41:23 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:41:23 --> 01:41:25 [SPEAKER_00]: She thinks she's going to be sacrificed.
01:41:25 --> 01:41:30 [SPEAKER_00]: All she knows about these people is that their black skin to evil wizards who steal your soul.
01:41:31 --> 01:41:33 [SPEAKER_00]: And that she's going to be sacrificed.
01:41:33 --> 01:41:40 [SPEAKER_00]: So when they get on board the ship to travel to broke Ireland and they even grow
01:41:42 --> 01:41:56 [SPEAKER_00]: And before this happens, by the way, I just wanted to mention, we're talking about mending, Sepul is the wizard who has knowledge from Paul, which is based in the older knowledge, and we actually go to a great fisher in the earth.
01:41:57 --> 01:42:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Remind anybody of tombs of atoa and there's a lot of suggestion of motherness and helps alder to be free from his dreams and his fear of doing grave harm through them by removing
01:42:13 --> 01:42:15 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll step out of here and say, think about this.
01:42:16 --> 01:42:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Is this... Mending her is this breaking?
01:42:21 --> 01:42:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, Abandon is still feeling stiff about the princess.
01:42:24 --> 01:42:28 [SPEAKER_00]: His people have no qualms about her and cheer her as she enters the ship, take color.
01:42:29 --> 01:42:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, ready, good job!
01:42:30 --> 01:42:33 [SPEAKER_00]: You walked up that plank and you didn't stumble once.
01:42:35 --> 01:42:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Irrian, who is remembered the Dragon Woman, and Susirek have a long conversation together.
01:42:42 --> 01:42:47 [SPEAKER_00]: And Lebanan slowly starts to see the princess as a woman, and a courageous one at that.
01:42:49 --> 01:42:54 [SPEAKER_00]: A storm comes up, and the women manage to avoid seasickness by staying up late and gambling.
01:42:54 --> 01:43:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Lebanan is very curious, for the first time he sees the princess without her veils.
01:43:02 --> 01:43:07 [SPEAKER_00]: The next morning he asks her to tell him what the Cargish say of dragons and of the veridunon.
01:43:08 --> 01:43:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Excuse me, that durenon,
01:43:10 --> 01:43:14 [SPEAKER_00]: He sees her for the first time as a beautiful and courageous fellow human being.
01:43:15 --> 01:43:21 [SPEAKER_01]: He goes, oh, I think God, she's hot.
01:43:21 --> 01:43:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, he stands there as if last night's lightning hits struck him at last.
01:43:26 --> 01:43:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Just another great line after their conversation together.
01:43:30 --> 01:43:34 [SPEAKER_02]: But then I, you know, what if she wasn't quote-unquote hot, right?
01:43:35 --> 01:43:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Like what if she wasn't, you know, aesthetically beautiful in that culture?
01:43:39 --> 01:43:44 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I think that it is not out of shallowness that Leboton is resisting.
01:43:45 --> 01:43:47 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think- I've been calling him shallow.
01:43:47 --> 01:43:49 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm pointing a finger at LeGwin here.
01:43:49 --> 01:43:51 [SPEAKER_02]: Because she's still using- Yeah.
01:43:51 --> 01:43:52 [SPEAKER_01]: That's true.
01:43:53 --> 01:43:53 [SPEAKER_01]: That's true.
01:43:53 --> 01:43:54 [SPEAKER_01]: I-
01:43:55 --> 01:43:55 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
01:43:56 --> 01:43:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:43:58 --> 01:44:02 [SPEAKER_00]: How often does her beauty get mentioned?
01:44:02 --> 01:44:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Not often.
01:44:03 --> 01:44:05 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it mentions much at all.
01:44:05 --> 01:44:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I think he's very tall.
01:44:06 --> 01:44:07 [SPEAKER_00]: And that comes back in.
01:44:07 --> 01:44:08 [SPEAKER_00]: That's about it, right?
01:44:08 --> 01:44:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:44:08 --> 01:44:13 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's when Tinar first sees her and when LeBanan first sees her.
01:44:13 --> 01:44:14 [SPEAKER_01]: So it will reveals.
01:44:14 --> 01:44:16 [SPEAKER_01]: That's when it's stated that she's beautiful.
01:44:16 --> 01:44:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Which is the first time.
01:44:18 --> 01:44:19 [SPEAKER_00]: And then that's it.
01:44:19 --> 01:44:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:44:20 --> 01:44:39 [SPEAKER_02]: And all of this is other, you know, about the other and how we other people and how we are other, but then also the same thing with Ged staying away, you know, and LeBanon doesn't know why he's making it, then he ends up making up reasons.
01:44:39 --> 01:44:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and then so when we don't ask questions and we don't sit with somebody and say, hey, what's up with your with you and your world?
01:44:47 --> 01:44:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Tell me about it.
01:44:48 --> 01:44:49 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm interested.
01:44:49 --> 01:45:00 [SPEAKER_02]: We are mind is going to at least our our human mammalian brains are trying to preserve
01:45:00 --> 01:45:02 [SPEAKER_02]: ourselves, right?
01:45:02 --> 01:45:07 [SPEAKER_02]: It's about safety and about not getting eaten by that sapper juice tiger, right?
01:45:07 --> 01:45:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Like so you're, you know, you're, it's better to be wary and nervous of potential threat than not.
01:45:16 --> 01:45:18 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's a very hard thing to overcome that instinct.
01:45:19 --> 01:45:20 [SPEAKER_00]: It's also about not wanting change.
01:45:20 --> 01:45:21 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:45:21 --> 01:45:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
01:45:22 --> 01:45:23 [SPEAKER_02]: And we all see, yeah, right?
01:45:23 --> 01:45:27 [SPEAKER_02]: Because we want predictability because that is a sustained survival.
01:45:27 --> 01:45:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
01:45:28 --> 01:45:35 [SPEAKER_01]: And he's just, I think part of it is he, he says multiple times right, he's like basically just gotten the kick them to start behaving itself.
01:45:35 --> 01:45:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
01:45:36 --> 01:45:38 [SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't want to shake it up now.
01:45:38 --> 01:45:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, it's been 15 years building this thing He's like, I don't know.
01:45:42 --> 01:45:43 [SPEAKER_00]: She's saying pirates.
01:45:43 --> 01:45:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Nobody want a freestyling thing All right, I queen and I don't even know and I love I love when she first marches out and all the people are like, yes Yeah, and I don't remember who says it?
01:45:56 --> 01:46:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Who says it when they're like she's gonna have to be queen now It could have been one of the wizards like it.
01:46:04 --> 01:46:07 [SPEAKER_01]: I thought it was an R, but I could be wrong
01:46:08 --> 01:46:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe she thought that.
01:46:09 --> 01:46:09 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
01:46:09 --> 01:46:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe she thought it.
01:46:10 --> 01:46:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, say that.
01:46:12 --> 01:46:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think so.
01:46:12 --> 01:46:13 [SPEAKER_00]: I think so.
01:46:13 --> 01:46:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think it was Yeah, I think you're right.
01:46:15 --> 01:46:20 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it was a thought where she's like good luck back and out of it now Right exactly.
01:46:21 --> 01:46:37 [SPEAKER_00]: So they do finally have a literal face-to-face conversation When they had gained this tiny haven this is a little cubby on the ship on worship The princess turned to him and pushed back the veil from her face He had intended to ask what he could do for her
01:46:38 --> 01:46:41 [SPEAKER_00]: But the question seemed both an adequate and irrelevant.
01:46:42 --> 01:46:43 [SPEAKER_00]: He said nothing.
01:46:44 --> 01:46:55 [SPEAKER_00]: She said, Lord King, in her at where I am, Faya got in Roke Island, I am to be King's daughter of Cargat.
01:46:56 --> 01:47:00 [SPEAKER_00]: To be this, I am not Faya got, I am bare face.
01:47:01 --> 01:47:02 [SPEAKER_00]: If it pleases you.
01:47:04 --> 01:47:07 [SPEAKER_00]: After a moment, he said,
01:47:07 --> 01:47:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, Princess, this is, this is well done.
01:47:11 --> 01:47:15 [SPEAKER_00]: It pleases you very much.
01:47:15 --> 01:47:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I thank you, Princess.
01:47:18 --> 01:47:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Barrezu, she said, a regal acceptance of his thanks.
01:47:23 --> 01:47:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Her dignity abashed him.
01:47:25 --> 01:47:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Her face had been flaming red when she first put back the veil.
01:47:29 --> 01:47:36 [SPEAKER_00]: There was no color in it now, but she stood straight and still
01:47:39 --> 01:47:42 [SPEAKER_00]: She resumed her stately attitude and spoke formally as she had at the beginning.
01:47:42 --> 01:47:44 [SPEAKER_00]: I thank you to Listen Lord King.
01:47:45 --> 01:47:53 [SPEAKER_00]: She dipped her head and shielded her eyes in a formal sign of respect and made the deep knee-bent courtesy again, speaking some formula in Cargish.
01:47:55 --> 01:47:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Please, he said, tell me what you said.
01:47:58 --> 01:48:10 [SPEAKER_00]: She paused, hesitated, thought, and replied, your small kings sons, sons, your sons, let them to be dragons and kings of dragons, huh?
01:48:12 --> 01:48:15 [SPEAKER_00]: She smiled radiantly, let the veil fall over her face.
01:48:15 --> 01:48:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Back to way four steps turned into parted, lies and sure, foot blanked down the length of the ship.
01:48:22 --> 01:48:26 [SPEAKER_00]: LeBanon stood as if last night's lightning had struck him at last.
01:48:27 --> 01:48:41 [SPEAKER_01]: your quote here brings to mind her original conversation where she's learning to speak with Tenar and I will all quote here, bear-faced, cesterock, mutton, and cargish, then in heartache thoughtfully, almost inaudibly, fearless.
01:48:42 --> 01:48:44 [SPEAKER_01]: And you know, you'll recall they were doing pairs, right?
01:48:44 --> 01:48:47 [SPEAKER_01]: They were doing great pairs in heartache and cargish.
01:48:48 --> 01:48:56 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that what we're saying here is
01:48:56 --> 01:49:00 [SPEAKER_01]: not just bear face, you know, bear face is just what she understands if you're a list.
01:49:00 --> 01:49:04 [SPEAKER_01]: They think that's that's really fascinating.
01:49:04 --> 01:49:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:49:05 --> 01:49:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:49:05 --> 01:49:07 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, she's heard of a bear face.
01:49:07 --> 01:49:07 [SPEAKER_00]: She has to be.
01:49:08 --> 01:49:15 [SPEAKER_01]: She's not quite, you know, successfully expressing it to LeBanan, but she's trying and it's expressed to us.
01:49:15 --> 01:49:16 [SPEAKER_01]: We understand what she's saying.
01:49:17 --> 01:49:18 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
01:49:18 --> 01:49:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:49:24 --> 01:49:25 [SPEAKER_01]: What else we got in this chapter?
01:49:25 --> 01:49:30 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, this is mostly set up for the next chapter.
01:49:31 --> 01:49:33 [SPEAKER_01]: but I did enjoy that conversation between the two of them.
01:49:33 --> 01:49:35 [SPEAKER_01]: That was really great.
01:49:36 --> 01:49:37 [SPEAKER_01]: There's also a quote here.
01:49:37 --> 01:49:46 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't remember the exact quote and I'm not gonna be able to find it, but they basically say like, look at us as a rag tag band going to save the world, right?
01:49:46 --> 01:49:50 [SPEAKER_01]: And I really like that because again, it makes you feel the absence of get, right?
01:49:50 --> 01:49:51 [SPEAKER_01]: The hero is gone.
01:49:52 --> 01:49:53 [SPEAKER_01]: We are what's left.
01:49:53 --> 01:49:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Interesting.
01:49:54 --> 01:49:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
01:49:56 --> 01:49:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:49:56 --> 01:50:01 [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't even reframe LeBanan or Alder as the heroes or Tahana, even.
01:50:02 --> 01:50:09 [SPEAKER_01]: It makes it like, hey, if there's going to be no hero, then all the peoples of the world are going to have to work together to solve this.
01:50:11 --> 01:50:15 [SPEAKER_00]: And share their knowledge.
01:50:15 --> 01:50:16 [SPEAKER_00]: This is a really crucial part.
01:50:17 --> 01:50:24 [SPEAKER_00]: One of the things
01:50:25 --> 01:50:29 [SPEAKER_00]: which is rather different from the wizard story.
01:50:29 --> 01:50:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Right, and the Paul story is somewhere between the two.
01:50:33 --> 01:50:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes.
01:50:34 --> 01:50:40 [SPEAKER_00]: But the wizards mostly have forgotten the story or just never kept telling it.
01:50:41 --> 01:50:54 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, as young wizards first came into Rook, that it was not part of, you know, magic 101, or whatever.
01:50:55 --> 01:50:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:50:57 --> 01:50:58 [SPEAKER_02]: Nice, nice.
01:50:58 --> 01:50:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Nobody's still in any rings here.
01:50:59 --> 01:51:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Nope.
01:51:00 --> 01:51:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Nope.
01:51:01 --> 01:51:06 [SPEAKER_00]: But they're going up to all of the rulers and telling them what's what.
01:51:09 --> 01:51:18 [SPEAKER_00]: So LeBandon is the one who tells them the story of the Verdeumun, which the wizards recognize as the same as their Verdeumun.
01:51:19 --> 01:51:25 [SPEAKER_00]: By crafting the language of true speech and to magic the wizards had broken the bargain and sought never to die.
01:51:26 --> 01:51:30 [SPEAKER_00]: But Eurion points out that those who cannot die can never be reborn.
01:51:32 --> 01:51:44 [SPEAKER_00]: By erecting the wall between their world and the dryland, the wizards broke the bargain and condemned themselves and their people to a non-life after life in the dryland, rather than rebirth into the world that the cargs remembered.
01:51:46 --> 01:51:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Eurion says,
01:51:56 --> 01:51:58 [SPEAKER_00]: it is not life that they yearn for.
01:51:59 --> 01:52:05 [SPEAKER_00]: It is death to be one with the earth again to rejoin it.
01:52:06 --> 01:52:13 [SPEAKER_02]: I was just going to say I like how she sets it up that nobody knew one single person has the answers.
01:52:13 --> 01:52:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
01:52:14 --> 01:52:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
01:52:15 --> 01:52:16 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a little bit here and there.
01:52:16 --> 01:52:29 [SPEAKER_02]: And that goes into her anthropological thing, which is, you know, this as knowledge is broken up and diffuse amongst different peoples, right?
01:52:29 --> 01:52:31 [SPEAKER_02]: That seems very real in a way.
01:52:31 --> 01:52:41 [SPEAKER_02]: History gets broken, myth gets broken, broken in a sense of the further away gets
01:52:41 --> 01:52:45 [SPEAKER_00]: and all the different pieces have to come together in a true mending.
01:52:46 --> 01:52:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Ah, yes.
01:52:47 --> 01:52:48 [SPEAKER_00]: To take it like.
01:52:48 --> 01:52:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Katsugi.
01:52:50 --> 01:52:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
01:52:50 --> 01:53:07 [SPEAKER_00]: And my favorite quote as they're waiting for the coming event when they're going to Alder is going to go to sleep and they're going to go to the dry land.
01:53:08 --> 01:53:12 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that when I die, I can breathe back the breath that made me live.
01:53:14 --> 01:53:20 [SPEAKER_00]: I can give back to the world all that I didn't do, all that I might have been and couldn't be.
01:53:20 --> 01:53:33 [SPEAKER_00]: All the choices I didn't make, all the things I lost and spent and wasted, I can give them back to the world, to the lives that haven't been lived yet.
01:53:33 --> 01:53:39 [SPEAKER_00]: That will be my gift back to the world that they get gave me the life I did live.
01:53:40 --> 01:53:43 [SPEAKER_00]: The love I loved, the breath I breathe.
01:53:46 --> 01:53:51 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'll just tell you now, I have left instructions that this is to be read at my memorial service.
01:53:51 --> 01:53:52 [SPEAKER_01]: I knew it.
01:53:53 --> 01:53:53 [SPEAKER_00]: I knew it.
01:53:54 --> 01:53:54 [SPEAKER_01]: You know why?
01:53:55 --> 01:53:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Because you mentioned that you had a quote that you had set up for your memorial service.
01:54:00 --> 01:54:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Did I?
01:54:00 --> 01:54:01 [SPEAKER_01]: I already loved the word.
01:54:01 --> 01:54:04 [SPEAKER_01]: And I read that quote and I was like, that's the quote right there.
01:54:04 --> 01:54:04 [SPEAKER_01]: That's the quote.
01:54:04 --> 01:54:05 [SPEAKER_01]: I knew it.
01:54:05 --> 01:54:09 [SPEAKER_01]: And I had highlighted it too, but then I saw it in your notes and I was like, that's quote.
01:54:09 --> 01:54:10 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's beautiful.
01:54:10 --> 01:54:12 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I, you know,
01:54:13 --> 01:54:21 [SPEAKER_01]: I've read this book twice now, I read it once in 2024 when we were originally going to cover it I read it once now and I'm in a different place in my life now.
01:54:21 --> 01:54:27 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm in a grieving sage in my life and reading that quote was honestly very healing for me.
01:54:28 --> 01:54:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh John, I'm so glad to hear that.
01:54:30 --> 01:54:42 [SPEAKER_01]: You think when you lose someone about all the memories you won't have and the experiences you won't have together and to have this idea of my gift back to you is all those experiences I never lived.
01:54:43 --> 01:54:45 [SPEAKER_00]: And that we never share.
01:54:45 --> 01:54:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Or two hours into the podcast, and now I'm going to start crying.
01:54:49 --> 01:54:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Go right ahead.
01:54:52 --> 01:55:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, and that's when I learned of it, and I've always appreciated the, Oh, instead of saying condolences, but to use the Jewish tradition, which is, you know, May their memory be a blessing.
01:55:05 --> 01:55:07 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
01:55:07 --> 01:55:12 [SPEAKER_02]: I find a lot more sit.
01:55:13 --> 01:55:20 [SPEAKER_00]: White, I have picked that up this well, hopefully it's not offensive to do that since I'm not Jewish.
01:55:20 --> 01:55:21 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's totally fine.
01:55:22 --> 01:55:23 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's a winner.
01:55:23 --> 01:55:24 [SPEAKER_02]: Wisdom is wisdom, right?
01:55:26 --> 01:55:27 [SPEAKER_00]: I certainly think so.
01:55:28 --> 01:55:36 [SPEAKER_01]: As the cargish and the hearted chair, we can borrow for each other as well.
01:55:37 --> 01:55:44 [SPEAKER_00]: So, the wizards on rope and get on gaunt, both sense that the dead draw near and the walls of stones are approaching.
01:55:45 --> 01:55:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Alder wakes on the hill and leads to honoured to the wall to unmake it at last.
01:55:51 --> 01:55:58 [SPEAKER_00]: All the wizards join in along with the dragon people, well to nod and cesserac remain behind to keep the house.
01:55:59 --> 01:56:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Cesarek also keeps watch over Lebanon, whose body lies by the house after he requested Autumn Irrian to take him with her to help undo the wall.
01:56:11 --> 01:56:15 [SPEAKER_00]: At the wall, Kalesen appears and transforms to nod into her dragon's shape.
01:56:17 --> 01:56:20 [SPEAKER_00]: She flies away with him into a sky in which the light was growing.
01:56:21 --> 01:56:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Several of the dead also transform into dragons, and fly into the wind.
01:56:27 --> 01:56:34 [SPEAKER_00]: The rest of the dead, men, women and children, begin to walk through the fallen places into the wall and the wall, and disappear.
01:56:35 --> 01:56:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Alder spots his wife, Lily, and the two of them cross into the sunlight, hand in hand.
01:56:41 --> 01:56:46 [SPEAKER_00]: The bonnet is standing and watching dawn in the east where no light has been before.
01:56:48 --> 01:56:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Kalesen comes to him and says, what was divided is divided.
01:56:58 --> 01:56:59 [SPEAKER_00]: What was built is broken.
01:57:00 --> 01:57:03 [SPEAKER_00]: What was broken is made whole.
01:57:04 --> 01:57:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Sepple calls to those living who remain saying it is not yet their time to go free, and they must leave.
01:57:12 --> 01:57:21 [SPEAKER_00]: The pattern it tells to know that Tahanu now flies golden on the other wind, whole again, and to know it'll beves.
01:57:21 --> 01:57:26 [SPEAKER_00]: The king is slow to recover, but Sussarak is determined to bring him back, and she does.
01:57:27 --> 01:57:39 [SPEAKER_00]: To nod returns to Ged and tells him that she stayed only for the betrothal of the king in the princess, which she enacted, using the ring of Elfara and that she and Ged had recovered from the tombs of Atawan.
01:57:41 --> 01:57:43 [SPEAKER_00]: There are no dragons left in the western Isles.
01:57:45 --> 01:57:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Onex said, as that shadow place and all the shadows in it rejoined the world of light, so the dragons regained their true realm.
01:57:55 --> 01:57:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Get response, we broke the world to make it whole.
01:58:02 --> 01:58:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Kid also has another really great line in there.
01:58:06 --> 01:58:10 [SPEAKER_01]: I loved when when he goes and he's waiting for everything to happen.
01:58:11 --> 01:58:12 [SPEAKER_01]: He's he's at everyone's not sleeping.
01:58:13 --> 01:58:17 [SPEAKER_01]: He grinned a little as he thought it for he had always liked that pause.
01:58:17 --> 01:58:20 [SPEAKER_01]: That fearful pause the moment before things changed.
01:58:23 --> 01:58:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that is a good one.
01:58:28 --> 01:58:49 [SPEAKER_01]: it's it's such a wonderful ending to the story, yeah, this idea of we've, we've, you know, there will still be magic in this world, but there will be an end to think down to, and that's important to, and can you, can you read your quote from the bottom, because I think that really ties it up nicely?
01:58:50 --> 01:58:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Of course, I'm beginning with the summoner speaking, I was wrong,
01:58:58 --> 01:59:01 [SPEAKER_00]: but it is not right to want to die," the Summoner said.
01:59:02 --> 01:59:04 [SPEAKER_00]: The Burr of the E Street was in his voice.
01:59:04 --> 01:59:06 [SPEAKER_00]: He spoke low, almost pleadingly.
01:59:08 --> 01:59:10 [SPEAKER_00]: For the very old, the very ill, it may be.
01:59:10 --> 01:59:12 [SPEAKER_00]: But life is given us.
01:59:13 --> 01:59:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Surely it's not wrong to hold and treasure that great gift.
01:59:18 --> 01:59:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Death is also given that, said the King.
01:59:27 --> 01:59:47 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, he was he was giving wisdom like really kingly wisdom here and I know, you know, my god, all right, my token jar is filling up, but token has this, you know, the king's healing hands, the wisdom of the kings, right, this, that he has all these other worldly bits about kings and I don't think liquid wind buys into that.
01:59:48 --> 01:59:49 [SPEAKER_01]: However,
01:59:50 --> 01:59:55 [SPEAKER_01]: He has lived a life, and he has now lived 15 years as king.
01:59:55 --> 02:00:02 [SPEAKER_01]: And he did go into slavery with Ged, as he relayed to.
02:00:02 --> 02:00:04 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it was on X that he told him, maybe with somebody else.
02:00:05 --> 02:00:12 [SPEAKER_01]: But he's learned this wisdom that it's important to have an end with it too.
02:00:12 --> 02:00:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Especially, he's the only one there who has physically been.
02:00:16 --> 02:00:17 [SPEAKER_01]: to the dry land.
02:00:18 --> 02:00:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
02:00:18 --> 02:00:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
02:00:19 --> 02:00:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
02:00:19 --> 02:00:21 [SPEAKER_01]: And so he understands.
02:00:21 --> 02:00:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I'm with God, of course.
02:00:22 --> 02:00:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I made there in this sort of one there.
02:00:24 --> 02:00:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
02:00:26 --> 02:00:29 [SPEAKER_01]: And so he understands the feet awaiting them if they don't change us.
02:00:30 --> 02:00:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Good point, John.
02:00:31 --> 02:00:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
02:00:33 --> 02:00:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
02:00:34 --> 02:00:42 [SPEAKER_00]: And I do think that this is arrogant because if you read the appendixies and Lord of the Rings, you get the story of art when an out of going.
02:00:42 --> 02:00:50 [SPEAKER_00]: And he, I'm not sure if he says precisely, you know, death is the gift given to us.
02:00:50 --> 02:00:51 [SPEAKER_00]: But that is the message.
02:00:52 --> 02:01:02 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we were given the gift that when we were ready, we could release our lives and
02:01:04 --> 02:01:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I'm not going to remember them word for word.
02:01:08 --> 02:01:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Behold, we are not bound forever to the circles of the world.
02:01:11 --> 02:01:14 [SPEAKER_00]: And beyond them is more than memory.
02:01:16 --> 02:01:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Farewell.
02:01:18 --> 02:01:22 [SPEAKER_01]: And you know, you have this idea of a new mentor in Tolkien.
02:01:23 --> 02:01:28 [SPEAKER_01]: the kings would live shorter lives because they clung to life because they could not accept death.
02:01:28 --> 02:01:34 [SPEAKER_01]: And here you have the wizards being stuck in this purgatory because they cling life.
02:01:34 --> 02:01:36 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that they that's all get in the glint agree on this.
02:01:37 --> 02:01:43 [SPEAKER_01]: They agree on clinging to life is not natural and it is not good.
02:01:44 --> 02:01:46 [SPEAKER_01]: I think they just disagree with what happens after death.
02:01:47 --> 02:01:50 [SPEAKER_00]: And yet both of them have a beautiful vision of what happens.
02:01:50 --> 02:01:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
02:01:51 --> 02:01:58 [SPEAKER_00]: I know for the one is to return to the earth and maybe you become a tree or a swallow or whatever.
02:01:58 --> 02:02:00 [SPEAKER_00]: And to the other, it is you return to the heart of love.
02:02:02 --> 02:02:17 [SPEAKER_02]: I think we can see that when those who try to use power over and are nearing the end of their runs and they exercise that power, it's a lot of destruction.
02:02:18 --> 02:02:33 [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm thinking about multiple world leaders right now who are all in the, you know, ladder stages of their lives, who are doing a lot of damage to our world because they don't know how to let go of the power.
02:02:35 --> 02:02:40 [SPEAKER_00]: And again, Aotegon says to Audwen, would you have me cling to my power until I am unman?
02:02:41 --> 02:03:01 [SPEAKER_01]: And even to make it, you know, I had not even a partisan issue, but we have so many representatives that die well-serving in Congress, think about that, like these people who, you know, they're your representatives, but they don't know how to pass the torch to the next generation.
02:03:02 --> 02:03:04 [SPEAKER_00]: And of course, some of them die before their time of theory.
02:03:04 --> 02:03:05 [SPEAKER_01]: That's true, that's true.
02:03:05 --> 02:03:16 [SPEAKER_01]: But many of them are continuing to pass their prime here and just not doing the work to see the next generation.
02:03:17 --> 02:03:17 [SPEAKER_02]: Right, right.
02:03:18 --> 02:03:27 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and creating a continuity in a bridge to the future for when they're no longer there.
02:03:27 --> 02:03:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
02:03:28 --> 02:03:29 [SPEAKER_02]: And thinking about that.
02:03:31 --> 02:03:43 [SPEAKER_00]: And I see that as a parental responsibility as much as it is a government responsibility to ensure that when you leave, you've done the work that will allow those who follow you to carry on.
02:03:43 --> 02:03:48 [SPEAKER_02]: I've always thought of my parenting in two ways.
02:03:48 --> 02:03:51 [SPEAKER_02]: One, there's my experience as a person.
02:03:51 --> 02:03:52 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a thing that I've done.
02:03:52 --> 02:03:55 [SPEAKER_02]: I've, you know, ski down a mountain.
02:03:55 --> 02:03:56 [SPEAKER_02]: I've hiked a thing.
02:03:56 --> 02:03:58 [SPEAKER_02]: I've flown into play, whatever, right?
02:03:58 --> 02:04:00 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I've checked, you know, been a parent.
02:04:01 --> 02:04:20 [SPEAKER_02]: But I also have a responsibilities that this person, this who is their own person, by the time that they're of legal age, they have enough skill and habit and practice and knowledge to be able to drive their own life.
02:04:21 --> 02:04:31 [SPEAKER_02]: There's a responsibility for me to, you know, wide parameters, but yet, you know, you've got to get some stuff learned, right?
02:04:31 --> 02:04:42 [SPEAKER_02]: That's my job is to make sure that you're getting some certain things done, so that when it's your time to run your own life, you have some basic skill in doing that.
02:04:42 --> 02:04:44 [SPEAKER_00]: including learning how to fail.
02:04:44 --> 02:04:45 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
02:04:45 --> 02:04:52 [SPEAKER_00]: So that you can learn the resilience of right accepting imperfection and getting up and maybe doing it even better next time.
02:04:52 --> 02:04:53 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
02:04:53 --> 02:04:59 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's that little pebble of stone that you have to carry in your pocket is that failure of the pain of failure.
02:05:00 --> 02:05:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Nice.
02:05:02 --> 02:05:04 [SPEAKER_02]: And no one can only you can experience that.
02:05:04 --> 02:05:06 [SPEAKER_02]: We've all experienced it.
02:05:06 --> 02:05:07 [SPEAKER_02]: But it's yours.
02:05:08 --> 02:05:09 [SPEAKER_02]: It belongs to you.
02:05:10 --> 02:05:12 [SPEAKER_00]: and you have the choice what you do in it.
02:05:12 --> 02:05:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and we can take out our stones and we can compare them.
02:05:15 --> 02:05:18 [SPEAKER_02]: But that one's yours, but your stone's back in your pants.
02:05:18 --> 02:05:23 [SPEAKER_02]: Sorry, sorry.
02:05:23 --> 02:05:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry.
02:05:23 --> 02:05:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Actually, no, I never believed in the pain Olympics.
02:05:26 --> 02:05:28 [SPEAKER_02]: No, exactly, right?
02:05:29 --> 02:05:31 [SPEAKER_02]: We can talk about our shared our pains.
02:05:31 --> 02:05:32 [SPEAKER_02]: And we all have them.
02:05:32 --> 02:05:35 [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, we can't compare the weight of them.
02:05:36 --> 02:05:37 [SPEAKER_02]: It just is.
02:05:38 --> 02:06:02 [SPEAKER_00]: And what's the horrible downtrodden thing for me might be something that somebody else would be much better, easy to do it, so how do I know and vice versa, but we have to be empathetic and an understanding of that because we have our own and we've experienced our own we need to witness and we need to accompany yeah we cannot fix right and doesn't that just.
02:06:03 --> 02:06:04 [SPEAKER_01]: bite sometimes.
02:06:05 --> 02:06:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Can we talk about, get, uh, sorry, uh, 10 hour coming home to get.
02:06:09 --> 02:06:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
02:06:11 --> 02:06:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Because what a wonderful close scene, right?
02:06:14 --> 02:06:18 [SPEAKER_00]: It's such a good good ending.
02:06:18 --> 02:06:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, go ahead.
02:06:18 --> 02:06:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Again, it's, it's by two pages, right?
02:06:20 --> 02:06:22 [SPEAKER_01]: It's, it's so simple.
02:06:23 --> 02:06:28 [SPEAKER_01]: And, uh, another story might have, um,
02:06:28 --> 02:06:30 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, might have dragged this out, right?
02:06:30 --> 02:06:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Might have had this whole, like, uh, then the King married the princess and everything was wonderful and, uh, in Gondor.
02:06:38 --> 02:06:42 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, in, uh, north.
02:06:42 --> 02:06:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but here we have Tinar deciding to skip out on the festivities and coming home and she says I don't even know how to tell you what happened.
02:06:59 --> 02:07:04 [SPEAKER_01]: And I like how he does a retrace your steps with telling a story that's kind of fun.
02:07:05 --> 02:07:11 [SPEAKER_01]: But the best part to me, I mean, it's heartbreaking that she has to tell him about Tejani, right?
02:07:11 --> 02:07:13 [SPEAKER_01]: But they're never going to see Tejani again.
02:07:14 --> 02:07:18 [SPEAKER_01]: But she could not sing, but she whispered the words, oh, my joy, be free.
02:07:20 --> 02:07:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
02:07:21 --> 02:07:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Though, get does say, if she does come back to us, it will be from this direction.
02:07:28 --> 02:07:29 [SPEAKER_00]: pointing to the window on the west.
02:07:30 --> 02:07:31 [SPEAKER_01]: And if not, she'll be there.
02:07:31 --> 02:07:32 [SPEAKER_00]: If you're at a number of times.
02:07:33 --> 02:07:34 [SPEAKER_01]: That's what he says.
02:07:34 --> 02:07:36 [SPEAKER_01]: He says, yeah, yeah.
02:07:36 --> 02:07:38 [SPEAKER_01]: And if she doesn't come, she is there.
02:07:39 --> 02:07:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, you can always remember that she's there.
02:07:41 --> 02:07:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, she's honestly, she's probably living a much better life than they are at this point.
02:07:46 --> 02:07:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, she is living life.
02:07:48 --> 02:07:48 [SPEAKER_00]: She's more into living.
02:07:48 --> 02:07:50 [SPEAKER_00]: I did from the end, at least.
02:07:50 --> 02:07:52 [SPEAKER_00]: We really don't know what drag and bias are like.
02:07:52 --> 02:07:56 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I have to think that they
02:07:56 --> 02:08:01 [SPEAKER_01]: He looked away up at the forest app, the mountain, the darkening heights.
02:08:01 --> 02:08:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Tell me, she said, tell me what you did while I was gone.
02:08:05 --> 02:08:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Kept the house.
02:08:08 --> 02:08:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Did you walk in the forest?
02:08:10 --> 02:08:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Not yet.
02:08:12 --> 02:08:14 [SPEAKER_01]: And of course, that seems to be for shadowing.
02:08:15 --> 02:08:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Get, you know, closing out his life.
02:08:19 --> 02:08:31 [SPEAKER_01]: But I also really like we bring back the kept the house because if you'll recall, that is what Tenar said do for the people who had gone into the drive, the dry land spiritually.
02:08:33 --> 02:08:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Tenar and Cessarek kept the house.
02:08:38 --> 02:08:45 [SPEAKER_00]: And yes, that the walking in the woods reminds me of the beginnings of Tahannu.
02:08:46 --> 02:08:50 [SPEAKER_00]: where Oguyan has summoned her with a thought because it is time for him to die.
02:08:51 --> 02:08:54 [SPEAKER_00]: And he has already picked out the tree in the forest that he wants to be buried under.
02:08:54 --> 02:08:59 [SPEAKER_00]: So maybe there is a sort of a subtext to that illusion.
02:08:59 --> 02:09:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Have you walked in the forest yet?
02:09:01 --> 02:09:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Have you picked where you eventually want to be linked?
02:09:03 --> 02:09:04 [SPEAKER_05]: No.
02:09:07 --> 02:09:09 [SPEAKER_00]: It helps for those who are left behind to know these things.
02:09:09 --> 02:09:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
02:09:11 --> 02:09:17 [SPEAKER_01]: It definitely does, I am glad that both of my parents left me fairly detailed instructions.
02:09:19 --> 02:09:20 [SPEAKER_00]: That's good John, I'm glad.
02:09:20 --> 02:09:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Because nobody wants to think about that when they're planning, you know, when they're feeling a lot of emotions.
02:09:27 --> 02:09:31 [SPEAKER_00]: And there's a million of one of the things that you have to do, I think about whenever.
02:09:32 --> 02:09:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the actual logistics of death, as opposed to, there's a lot of them trust me.
02:09:41 --> 02:09:50 [SPEAKER_01]: No, I talked to two lawyers today and we all say goodbye to our loved ones in our own time.
02:09:50 --> 02:09:56 [SPEAKER_01]: We hope that they leave us that gift of the lives that they lived and lives that they didn't.
02:10:01 --> 02:10:03 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's a great place to put it.
02:10:03 --> 02:10:04 [SPEAKER_01]: To leave it.
02:10:05 --> 02:10:05 [SPEAKER_00]: I agree.
02:10:05 --> 02:10:07 [SPEAKER_00]: That it's two hours and eleven minutes.
02:10:07 --> 02:10:08 [SPEAKER_01]: So we did it.
02:10:09 --> 02:10:11 [SPEAKER_01]: I told David, we weren't doing a part two.
02:10:12 --> 02:10:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for doing that.
02:10:16 --> 02:10:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for running this end timer.
02:10:18 --> 02:10:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Biggest listen, if we didn't finish it tonight, it would be 2028 before we finish it.
02:10:25 --> 02:10:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Unfortunately, given our track record, there's probably some truth to that.
02:10:31 --> 02:10:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's been such a lovely journey, and I hope that at some point we'll be able to revisit some of the tales from Earthsea.
02:10:38 --> 02:10:39 [SPEAKER_00]: I would like that too.
02:10:39 --> 02:10:40 [SPEAKER_00]: There's some really good ones there.
02:10:41 --> 02:10:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
02:10:42 --> 02:10:47 [SPEAKER_00]: There is one actually that includes, um, the guests dying.
02:10:47 --> 02:10:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
02:10:48 --> 02:10:49 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh yeah, I kind of remember that.
02:10:51 --> 02:10:51 [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
02:10:51 --> 02:10:52 [SPEAKER_02]: I've read a couple of times.
02:10:52 --> 02:10:54 [SPEAKER_02]: He sails away.
02:10:54 --> 02:10:54 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
02:10:54 --> 02:10:55 [SPEAKER_02]: Does he seal into the West?
02:10:57 --> 02:10:58 [SPEAKER_00]: You'll have to read it.
02:10:58 --> 02:11:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's a, it's a, that's a token.
02:11:00 --> 02:11:01 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I know.
02:11:01 --> 02:11:01 [SPEAKER_00]: I know.
02:11:01 --> 02:11:02 [SPEAKER_00]: I know.
02:11:02 --> 02:11:05 [SPEAKER_00]: How many, how many coins do you know that you put it in?
02:11:05 --> 02:11:10 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right.
02:11:10 --> 02:11:11 [SPEAKER_01]: How many coins do we owe?
02:11:11 --> 02:11:12 [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
02:11:12 --> 02:11:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, we finished her.
02:11:14 --> 02:11:14 [SPEAKER_01]: See everybody.
02:11:15 --> 02:11:15 [SPEAKER_01]: We did it.
02:11:15 --> 02:11:19 [SPEAKER_01]: We finally came back and we, we rounded the fairies.
02:11:19 --> 02:11:22 [SPEAKER_02]: We had 20, she had two decades between, uh, that's true.
02:11:23 --> 02:11:25 [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, we're, we're honoring her journey.
02:11:26 --> 02:11:26 [SPEAKER_00]: What's to it now?
02:11:26 --> 02:11:28 [SPEAKER_01]: She's still faster than George R. Martin.
02:11:33 --> 02:11:47 [SPEAKER_01]: So, already, if you want to hear more of us, we've plenty going on on the L'Orealns network, I will just say, because it's, you know, topically related, I am launching a Cosmere Read Along.
02:11:47 --> 02:11:52 [SPEAKER_01]: In June, so you can join me and the guys from Radioactive Ramlings, that's Richard and Aaron.
02:11:53 --> 02:11:55 [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to be walking through Brendan Sinterson's Cosmere Series.
02:11:55 --> 02:11:56 [SPEAKER_01]: It's another fantasy series.
02:11:57 --> 02:11:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Very different tone.
02:11:59 --> 02:12:02 [SPEAKER_01]: But it does touch on a lot of the same beams.
02:12:03 --> 02:12:07 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that if you like Earthsea, you will likely enjoy where that goes.
02:12:07 --> 02:12:10 [SPEAKER_01]: And we're going to be diving into a lot of those deep themes there too.
02:12:10 --> 02:12:16 [SPEAKER_01]: So check out, you know, keep to keep tabs on us, we'll have a link to that once that's starting to launch.
02:12:16 --> 02:12:19 [SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be called Cosmere Corner, so you can Google it starting June.
02:12:21 --> 02:12:23 [SPEAKER_01]: What else we got going on the Lorehounds?
02:12:23 --> 02:12:25 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, it's kind of, is it, do we need to do that?
02:12:25 --> 02:12:30 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, this is a topical, I mean, a Evergreen podcast, not necessarily a.
02:12:31 --> 02:12:31 [SPEAKER_01]: That's true.
02:12:31 --> 02:12:34 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I would just say quickly that we're doing, um,
02:12:34 --> 02:12:35 [SPEAKER_01]: the pit.
02:12:35 --> 02:12:36 [SPEAKER_01]: I know the seven kingdoms in the pit.
02:12:37 --> 02:12:37 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
02:12:37 --> 02:12:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
02:12:37 --> 02:12:38 [SPEAKER_02]: Seven kingdoms over now.
02:12:38 --> 02:12:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
02:12:39 --> 02:12:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
02:12:39 --> 02:12:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Maryland.
02:12:41 --> 02:12:48 [SPEAKER_00]: I will also say that I just realized it's March and I said I would start outlining the second season of rings of power.
02:12:48 --> 02:12:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Ah, very exciting, very exciting.
02:12:50 --> 02:12:52 [SPEAKER_00]: So, forgive me folks.
02:12:52 --> 02:13:00 [SPEAKER_00]: I had a six week battle with things that I'm coming back from and I'm feeling much better now.
02:13:00 --> 02:13:08 [SPEAKER_00]: That's going to have to be the next big project I turned my attention to, but I really wanted to finish other wins, so I feel really good that we did that.
02:13:08 --> 02:13:11 [SPEAKER_02]: We are looking forward to it, so yeah, rings and rituals.
02:13:11 --> 02:13:12 [SPEAKER_01]: That's in the show notes right now.
02:13:12 --> 02:13:13 [SPEAKER_01]: You don't even have to wait.
02:13:14 --> 02:13:15 [SPEAKER_01]: You can go check catch up on season one.
02:13:16 --> 02:13:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
02:13:16 --> 02:13:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
02:13:17 --> 02:13:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Might help you remember what's going on.
02:13:19 --> 02:13:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
02:13:21 --> 02:13:23 [SPEAKER_01]: And we have a bunch of other affiliates.
02:13:23 --> 02:13:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Never mind the music, doing music and psychology.
02:13:26 --> 02:13:26 [SPEAKER_01]: We've got
02:13:28 --> 02:13:56 [SPEAKER_01]: uh... radio active ramlings i mentioned already but they're going to be covering and been supporting the boys coming up and properly howard is doing their uh... newlywed yep season so check all that out it's going to be a lot of fun on all those feeds i feel i feel so like like i've been through an emotional journey on this podcast that's i i feel much more somber than i have been in previous altru's uh... uh... uh... let's get the air horns out though because we got to give it the
02:13:58 --> 02:14:18 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to make David do the air horn part because, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
02:14:20 --> 02:14:25 [SPEAKER_01]: and our lore master's Samarshan Michael J. Michelle E. S.C. Peter O'H.
02:14:25 --> 02:14:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Nancy M. Doves 71, Brian 863, Frederick H. Sarah L. Garth C. Andre B. Quangue, Nathan T. Sub-Zero, Aaron K. Daly V. Mothership 61.
02:14:36 --> 02:14:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Nars?
02:14:38 --> 02:14:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Kathy W. The Stu.
02:14:40 --> 02:14:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Jeffrey B. Elise U. Ben B. Scott F. Steven N. Julia F.
02:14:47 --> 02:14:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Paul K. Rackizim, Jessica A.
02:14:50 --> 02:14:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Red Zippy, the TCS dope a mini, dope a mini, catch it.
02:14:56 --> 02:15:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Ellen R. Mrs. Tenant AC Wilson, Eli W. Cassicae, Chambaruni, Katia, Joshua Loupington, PDX, Cori G, Quinsh, and Andrianne.
02:15:08 --> 02:15:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Eglario, alightate, alightate.
02:15:11 --> 02:15:12 [SPEAKER_00]: And thank you.
02:15:12 --> 02:15:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Whatever she said, thank you, thank you, everyone, for being with us on this journey and for being patient in the two years still got to do this last episode.
02:15:21 --> 02:15:21 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
02:15:21 --> 02:15:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much.
02:15:21 --> 02:15:28 [SPEAKER_01]: I hope people are still here and checking out our Earthsea episodes because I think this is one of our best book episodes.
02:15:29 --> 02:15:31 [SPEAKER_01]: I had a really great time discussing this with you both.
02:15:32 --> 02:15:37 [SPEAKER_00]: I certainly was so thrilled when you suggested it and really glad to have been on this journey with all of you.
02:15:38 --> 02:15:39 [SPEAKER_00]: So thank you for coming back, David.
02:15:39 --> 02:15:40 [SPEAKER_02]: You were missed.
02:15:40 --> 02:15:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I could not come back for the final.
02:15:42 --> 02:15:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it would be ridiculous.
02:15:44 --> 02:15:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
02:15:44 --> 02:15:47 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, we'll see you all in the next episode of something.
02:15:47 --> 02:15:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Bye.
02:15:49 --> 02:15:52 [SPEAKER_01]: The Lower Hound's podcast is produced in published by The Lower Hounds.
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02:16:04 --> 02:16:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Any opinions stated or are as personally and do not reflect the opinion of or belong to any employers or other entities.
02:16:09 --> 02:16:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for listening.