The Wheel of Time (pre-finale) - S3 through non-reader eyes!

[00:00:00] The Wheel of Time turns, and ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. In one podcast called The Lorehounds by Some, a weekly recap with tons of analysis, two Wheel of Time superfans will lead you through a world of powerful magic, tricky prophecies, and cutthroat politics. Join me, John, and my co-host Alicia for weekly coverage of Season 3 by searching your podcast app for The Lorehounds. Dov'y andi se tovas again.

[00:00:29] It's time to roll the dice. Welcome to this special extra episode of The Lorehounds coverage of The Wheel of Time Season 3.

[00:00:58] This is neither an episode, breakdown, nor a lorecast, but it's instead a different format that some of you requested. Today is all about picking the brain of a show-only fan who hasn't read the books, and what does he think about the show and the season so far. So, I'm Alicia, Fahil's spiritual stunt double, here with Jean, the world's biggest fan of The Way of the Leaf. Negative. That is not the truth. That is a misrepresentation.

[00:01:28] So, I'm clearly not actually Aes Sedai because I lied very hard. Fake news. That is fake news. So, which of the groups that we've met in the first three seasons would you most want to be a part of? Definitely not the Tuathana, I know that. It would have to be the Seafolk. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Do you like water? Are you a water person? I am. I am.

[00:01:58] I like to be near the ocean. I would love to be near the ocean. You know, like my parents are from Haiti. So, it's, you know, part of the whole shebang. You know what I mean? Right. Being on the coast, being in temperate, nice, cool weather, although I'm a native New Yorker, so I don't get that that often.

[00:02:26] But in my mind, I think I would take to the ocean coastal life quite well. Yeah. Yeah. We need more seasons so that we get more of the Seafolk story. I'm hoping that we'll get to see at least one of their islands. And I've always, you know, I went on a cruise and, you know, I was just struck by how insignificant I was on this, you know, huge ship.

[00:02:56] And when I looked out, there was nothing but blue water. It was a very humbling moment, you know, to take in. And I was just like, wow, this is an incredible feeling that, you know, for all the things that happened in life, I'm here in the middle of the ocean and really this, how small could I be at that moment? It was an incredible thing.

[00:03:25] So yeah, I would be a Seafolk for real. Okay. And so if men did not go mad from channeling, would you rather be a wave master, like in charge of the ship, a sword master or wind finder? I think I would be a wave master. Okay. I think I would like to be a wave master. Like the captain of the ship. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:03:54] I think I would like to be a wave master. I think I would like to be the captain of the ship. I think I would not want to be responsible for finding the wind and there's no wind to be found. But you create it. I know. I know. I know. I know. I'm just saying, you know, like I don't want that responsibility. Oh, you would definitely find me. I'll be your wind finder. You would find me up at the front of the ship dancing in the wind. Yeah. That's, that's cool. I could delegate that stuff. You know what I mean?

[00:04:23] I'd rather delegate those responsibilities. Okay. So Jean, you have not read the books. No. You have watched all of the seasons to date through episode seven of season three. So we're going to be talking spoilers through episode seven of season three. And I'm also allowed to bring up anything from the books that's equivalent to what we've already seen on screen. But there will be no future book spoilers in this episode, not even at the end.

[00:04:53] But Jean, what's your story with The Wheel of Time? When did you start watching? Did you start in the first season? I started the first season. That's the first time I've ever engaged with any of the story. Okay. I have not read the books. I have not been in circles of folks who have read the books. So I was completely unaware of this, you know, fantastical world that existed.

[00:05:17] When I saw that Amazon was doing this series, you know, I'm into all things, you know, sci-fi, fantasy. So I'm like, oh, okay, cool. Let me, I read the synopsis. I was like, all right, this is going to be a cool little thing to watch. Yeah. So that's the first time I've engaged with the story was that first episode in season one. And what did you think about the first two seasons as you were watching them?

[00:05:45] Um, I really enjoyed both. You know, the first episode of season one was one of my favorite episodes. Uh, to meet these characters and to get into the setting of the story of the book and in this world. Um, it drew me in like from jump. So I appreciated that. Uh, so that first episode I was already hooked.

[00:06:16] Um, the first two seasons, I think for me were, are still really, really good watching. There was, there are things that stand out, um, different episodes, different, but on the whole, like this is a captivating world.

[00:06:37] And I wanted, with each episode, with each season, I'm wanting to learn more about how this world functions. And if you're doing that, then you're telling a compelling story for me. Yeah. And I know, I mean, I know that there was one thing in the first episode that you really did not like, and you continue to beef with this character to this day. Do you want to talk about, go ahead and talk about that.

[00:07:05] I mean, yeah, the, the fridging of Perrin's wife. Right. Um, I just, it, it felt so disconnected from the story as we went along, as we go along. Um, there was really no rhyme or reason for it to happen. Um, but only to push his character forward. So that was a choice that I felt that shouldn't have been made.

[00:07:31] Um, so I did not enjoy that aspect of that part of the story. Um, Perrin continues to be the bane of my existence. Um, he's the thorn in my side. He is, you know, I'm looking for someone to pull out the thorn in my paw, like the lion does, you know, I'm just, this guy is just infuriating on so many levels that I'm sure we'll get into later on.

[00:08:01] Um, but, um, yeah, he remains the person that I am least connected to in the story. And it's crazy because I want to be connected to him. Like I want to like him. I really do. I want to like him. He's black. He has a fro. I mean, I want to like this dude. You know, he has, you know, he's a, what is he? A werewolf? What? I don't know what they actually call it. He's a wolf brother. Yeah. A wolf brother.

[00:08:29] Um, yeah, I want to like him and I don't. So, yeah. Yeah. Well, we, we were talking about it and for anyone who doesn't know, John and I can often be found talking about Marvel on the, on the Lorehounds feed. And so we were comparing it to in Marvel civil war. We both agreed that Perrin would have definitely sided with Iron Man. He would have signed on the dotted line, right? So I know you're not. Yeah.

[00:08:58] He's a very dutiful character. I like Perrin better than you for sure. A hundred percent. But, um, uh, yeah, I also, I love wolves. So yeah, I like, but I, I did, I have said before in this podcast that this is the part of the story now where he becomes like, Lord, do a pair in golden eyes and he meets Fahil and everything. This is the part of the story where he really starts to come alive for me. But yeah, we'll talk about, um, I'm hoping so.

[00:09:23] And, you know, I, I really hope that the character does develop in a way that I can, you know, identify with and, and be drawn to. Cause I know a lot of other folk really like him like you do. Um, but for me, he just, yeah, his decision making is just so questionable, um, for me. And it's just like, ah, yeah. Yeah. So who are your favorite characters?

[00:09:52] Oh man. Wow. Um, favorite character. Hmm. I think first and foremost would have to be land. Okay. Yeah. I think land is, uh, he's somebody who, who I really do want to learn more about, you know? He does duty in the way you respect. He does. And, but there's something else pulling at him.

[00:10:20] Like there's more to his story than I know right now. And I really want to dig into that story. And plus his name is Alan Mandragaron. I mean, come on. How could you not be down with a guy whose name says that? You know what I'm saying? Alan Mandragaron. Come on, let's go. Yeah. You know, I, I appreciate that. So, but yeah, I just like his character. He is, he, like you said, he's dutiful.

[00:10:50] Um, but he's not afraid to speak his mind. Uh, and he's not afraid to, you know, to speak his truth. Um, and we saw his relationship with, you know, Moraine and how it's, it's, it's a very honest one, you know, for me. And I think I appreciate that because the power imbalance is there, but even though with that

[00:11:15] power imbalance, he is still, you know, going to say what he has to say and he's going to, you know, live in a way that he finds to be true. And it's not in a way that is harmful or even, you know, at odds to with Moraine or anyone else, but he is that guy. Like I could see if Rand wasn't the guy, it would be land. Yeah. But the thing is, and this is something that they're finally doing a bit more in this season.

[00:11:45] Um, in the books, it is part of the story from the very beginning of the first book, basically, but you know, they've had to rush so much. We finally get more time with land training and not just training Rand in the sword, but also just kind of training Rand, how to be a man. And that's not any slight to Tam Althor Rand's father who we've unfortunately not seen. I hoped he would be back this season, but you know, practicalities of filming and active schedules and stuff.

[00:12:14] Um, obviously he had a great father, but Len, his father kind of maybe protected him in some ways, even though his father was also a warrior and trained him in certain things. Len is the one who comes to him and says, I'm not your father, but I am someone who understands what it is to be born into a duty. And, um, and how do you handle that? And how do you stay human? Uh, when you are being treated?

[00:12:41] I mean, I don't want to say land's treated in a God-like way, but we got to see some of that with Melinda this season, that he is a semi-mythical figure amongst the borderlanders. Right. Right. Yeah. After, after him, for me, um, a close second would be Egwene. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I just, I really love her character. Mm-hmm.

[00:13:06] I think she has like this fire inside of her that is, you know, when it's unleashed, it's going to be something, you know, to really, to really behold. Mm-hmm. The, her story arc has been the most, um, satisfying one to me so far. Okay. With everything she went through last season too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:13:34] And how she, you know, they didn't leave it to where, okay, she's free now. Mm-hmm. There are still scars there, right? Mm-hmm. Whether they're, they're being caused by an external factor or it's part of her, you know, healing. Mm-hmm. Those scars are still there. And I appreciated that they were good enough to her character to not shy away from that. Yeah. Yeah. No, I appreciate that.

[00:14:02] And that is something, you know, about, there's, there's a bit more darkness to the wheel of time than say, you know, Tolkien, but, um, I appreciate, you know, it's something that's seeing the darkness that does exist in humanity and how do we cope with this and how do we still be good people in spite of this when there's every reason to take the temptations of the dark. Right. Of the shadow. Yeah. Um, okay.

[00:14:31] So what are your thoughts on season three so far? Um, wow. Overall. It's been great. Yeah. It's been great. It really has until this last episode. Until episode seven. These first six episodes to me were really tremendous. Um, really good stuff going on with, you know, with the characters.

[00:15:00] And, and how we see Rand. Like, that's probably my favorite episode is episode four, um, of the entire series. But just to, to get that backstory that I hadn't, I didn't know about, um, to see it, you know, through Rand's eyes, um, not just through my own was really refreshing. And I really liked it. I think I wrote in one of our discords, I said, you know, this was me perhaps maybe the

[00:15:29] best, you know, story of how our hero comes to learn who they are. Mm-hmm. Right? And the steps, everything about that episode is just tremendous. But the season as a whole, I really enjoy because one, I'm introduced to the persons that I would like to be a part of, the Seafolk. So I like them a lot. Right?

[00:15:55] So, and then we get these other places like, um, Tanchico and, you know, that story. And we get, um, Aladdin, the Landrin story, her backstory, um, to see how she became who she was. So there was a lot of, um, filling in the blanks for me that I really did appreciate and am appreciating about this season. Yeah. And, um, okay.

[00:16:23] So I guess, yeah, those would be your favorite characters, plot lines, locations, um, thoughts on Tanchico thoughts on, uh, nine even Elaine. I mean, Matt. They talk too much. You know, All three of them? Yeah. All three of them. They just talk too much, man. I'm like, you know, have some awareness of, you know, maybe I shouldn't be, you know, spilling

[00:16:51] the beans in a bar. You know, I don't know who else is around, who's listening, who's watching, um, that they had no thought about that really kind of pissed me off. Or having your portrait done in a bar. Yeah. Exactly. With the horn. Like, what are we doing here? So I just felt like, um, they were too cavalier and almost not caring about what they were

[00:17:21] saying around people who they didn't know. Right. In an environment that they were not familiar with. They're immature. Yeah. They got to grow up. They got it. Yeah. Basically they got to grow up. And, you know, the thing is going through what they went through, you would think that would have sunk in already for me. Because this is not, we're fishing one day and the next day we're in Tanchico. All of this stuff has happened to them to get to this point.

[00:17:49] And they still were like, ah, you know, we're looking for a so-and-so and blah, blah, blah. And I'm just like, ah, shut up. Don't say anything. Just like, go outside, go to the back, pull them to the side. You know, don't just sit there openly asking questions. So, and the Tanchico was very, it was interesting to see like this city that obviously, you know, what happens in Tanchico stays in Tanchico.

[00:18:20] So it was weird because I didn't expect to see that sort of environment in this story for some reason. You know? Yeah. Yeah. It's maybe not the most typical for a quote unquote high fantasy. Yeah. And I kind of liked it. I thought it was cool that you have, you know, all of these different representations of what humanity can be like. You know?

[00:18:50] You have the courts, you know, the royals and all of this other stuff. But you also have, you know, where people want to let their hair down and do their thing. And I like that. And sing about boobs. Yeah. Basically, right? So, yeah. It was cool to watch, to see that. I don't know if Tanchico is, maybe it's not my favorite, but it's the one that I thought was the most captivating. Okay.

[00:19:20] Of the settings that we've had so far. Yeah. Okay. Well, that's a good overview of your general thoughts. So we're going to take a quick pause here. And after the break, we're going to dive a little deeper into each of the settings that were the major set pieces of this season and get your thoughts. So stick around for that. See you in a sec.

[00:20:03] All right. So we're going to start with another group I know you love about as much as the Tuathan, the Aes Sedai. Okay. And those who have heard you on Star Wars podcast might know that you have a suspicion of institutions that claim to be the moral law of the land. That is true. Yeah. Absolutely. I don't trust the Jedi and I don't trust the Aes Sedai.

[00:20:33] No, no. I don't trust either one of them. Get out of here. With all your robes and all of this stuff. Ah, no. I don't trust any of them. I don't trust them at all. So, yeah. But that was an awesome opening battle for the season. Yeah, it was great. It was really cool. I thought, you know, when we speak of, we watch these shows, we read these books and we talk about, you know, the power that people have that they hold.

[00:21:02] It was nice to see them not shy away from it. You know what I mean? Like I enjoyed watching, you know, these immensely powerful people just, you know, lash out. Yeah. Because on some level, that's what they're going to do. You know, when push comes to shove, they're going to use that power. They're going to use the force that they have and, you know, pun not intended.

[00:21:28] And they're just going to do what they have to do in order to come out on top. And I was really stoked watching that whole scene unfold because people were doing things and using the one power in ways that, you know, were different. Some people were, you know, hurling stones. Some people were cutting other people in half. You know, it was really, I thought it was really well done. Well done, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And exciting.

[00:21:57] And it set a tempo, you know, it set like a, it gave me the sense that, okay, wow. Okay. Now we're really getting into what everyone is really afraid of, you know, what everyone is really afraid of. Because in the prior season, when they, what do they say? They still, the men who channel. Yeah. So it's still when it's a woman and they gentle them.

[00:22:27] They gentle the men. And yes, thank you. So when they gentle men, you know, because they're afraid of what the power that they, they're using can do to watch people who have control over it, just lose control in the moment because of the heat of the battle.

[00:22:46] I understood why, you know, that could be scary and you have to do the things that I would consider to be terrible in order to prevent that outcome from happening. Right. Yeah. I mean, it's kind of like, especially the male channelers because they go mad, but a channeler, you can understand why they're kind of treated like nuclear bombs. Yeah. Yeah. You don't want that to go off.

[00:23:15] You don't want it to go off. You don't want it to go off. And, you know, again, with the backstory that we see where we're in, in this season, in episode four, I got to really kind of, I kind of understood before.

[00:23:32] But these two things to me, his going back in time and watching the progression of his ancestors and then remembering the battle from the first episode. Like, ah, okay, this is the thing that everyone is afraid of happening. This is the breaking of the world. Like, I understood it, you know, in a way that I didn't, I don't think I comprehended in the first two seasons.

[00:24:02] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think this season's been great for that. And another thing I really liked about this season is they have that balance. You were talking about establishing the pace where in that first episode, we had this big battle, but we also got these moments of just characters spending time together and the levity and the companionship. That's really, I would say at the heart of one of the main reasons why people love the book so much.

[00:24:27] And that's been something that they've, even though the group split into different locations, these moments of levity together are what also drives the series in my opinion. Yeah. Yeah. I think you and John on one of the first podcasts for this season spoke about that, how nice it is to see them laughing and talking to each other and just being around each other, right?

[00:24:55] Because we don't really get a sense of that from the first two seasons, right? They're from the same town. Like, for me, I felt like they're from the same town, but they're not really, you know, people, people like that. You know, I know a lot of people in Brooklyn, but I'm not chilling with them in that way that, you know, these obvious friends were chilling with each other in that first episode, right?

[00:25:20] So it was, I didn't get that connection that they all had this strong bond, right? I didn't feel that in the first two seasons. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's definitely something that's, the fact that they go hard in one scene and then lay back in another creates this nice balance this season. Yeah. I think that's one of the reasons why people are loving it. Yeah. What did you think of the introduction of Elaine's family? Morgays, off with their heads, Tricond.

[00:25:51] No, Morgays kick rocks. Kick rocks. Kick rocks. Yeah. Get out of here. Get out of here. You're coming into the, you're coming into the, into the, the, the Amalyn seat trying to, you know, talk your way. Like you, like he's some big hot shot, like kick rocks. You know what I'm saying? I don't know what you were doing. I mean, she is a big hot shot. She's the queen of the largest nation in the, in their world, at least. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:26:19] I hear all of that, but no, like, no. Like, I don't know what you were doing these first two seasons. I don't know what you were taking care of, but over here, they've been dealing with some real shit and you just showing up talking about, you know, where my daughter at. Well, find your daughter. You know what I'm saying? Don't come up here looking for me, looking at me talking nonsense. Like, yo, your daughter is where she's supposed to be. You know what I'm saying? Right. You sent her here. I didn't come for her. You did. Don't be mad at me. Yeah. Like, come on now. Yeah.

[00:26:49] She wants to take Elaine home, but she would be, and obviously she doesn't know this, but she would be taking Elaine home with a forsaken who wants to kill her. Right. And that was so cool to see, what is his name? Raven? Mm-hmm. It's Raven, yeah? Yeah. Yeah, Raven. And I had questions. I was like, oh, wait a minute. Because I was like, who's this prince? Who's this prince consort? Like, what is his role? What is he doing here? You know what I mean?

[00:27:17] He's just standing here, like, and then the reveal, I'm like, oh, that's dastardly. I love it. Man, just cast a spell on everybody. Like, yo. Yeah. You know me. I mean, that's an impressive show of power. It's not like, you know, the explosive bomb, but the amount of, like, control that you need to do that. To brainwash, like, an entire city at once. Yeah. That's the magic shit right there. I love it. Like, you walk into the room.

[00:27:47] I forgot who was the Aes Sedai. Leanna. Yes. So we spoke about this. The Keeper of the Chronicles. And she, you know, like, looked twice. And then all of a sudden, it was like, oh, yeah. Oh, I know who you are. Right. Like, that dude, that dude is doing some real shit. You know? It's one power. What they call it? The true power. So. Well, there's an important difference. The one power. Well, okay. So there's the one and the truth.

[00:28:17] And the truth is what the boar that opened up in episode four. That's what Lanfear was going for. The truth. Which is like this inky black power that comes straight from the dark one. Okay. And then the one power is what they. He's doing crazy stuff with it. That's all I'm saying. Yeah. Well, he has access to the dark ones. So, you know. So everything everybody else is doing is pretty straightforward. But this guy is, you know, bamboozling entire populations.

[00:28:47] That's impressive stuff. Yeah. And Elaine's brothers, Galad and Gawain. We didn't see as much of them this season as I would have thought. But we did get the princely introduction where they need to be taken down a peg. Yeah. And I love that Matt did it. You know, that's maybe my favorite Matt moment of the series, quite honestly. Because up until that point, I felt like he was just a bumbling, you know, like.

[00:29:17] Yeah. He's just like bumbling through life, through these scenarios. Right. And at this point, he's just like, nah, I got this. You know, and he really stepped into like this role of assuredness, you know, that he doesn't always express. And I was glad to see that, that he was able to step into this, you know, more serious type of situation and command it. Mm-hmm.

[00:29:45] Because he hasn't done that for me in this first, you know, season. No. And actually, that mirrors the books where he's just like, he becomes really annoying and, you know, whiny because of this whole dagger situation in the first two books. And then finally, he's cured of the dagger. Yeah, that's not his fault though, right? No, it's not. And the dagger is his fault. It's not his fault. But this whole stick fight in the books is when he really starts to come to life. Okay. Yeah.

[00:30:15] Yeah, other stuff that, there's other stuff that we're just starting to see that we're waiting to see more of. We'll see some in the finale for sure. And then we need more seasons so we see the rest of his story. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And would you think we got Shora Agdashlu joining as Elida Sadai of the Red Aja? That's a force to be reckoned with. Kick rocks. You know what I'm saying? It's very hard for me to say that to this woman, you know, who I adore every time she's on screen.

[00:30:44] But she got kick rocks. She got to get out of here. She got to get out of here. You know, all the scheming, the manipulation that she's doing, just like, and the thing is, I think it's going to work. You know? Because I'm, I just, yeah, I think it's going to work. I think she's going to be able to, you know, scheme her way into Su-An's role.

[00:31:13] Who should be first in line to kick rocks? Her or Morgays? Oh, she should. She should. She's been alive much longer from what I could gather. So yeah, she's had a longer lifespan to become this type of person. So she should kick rocks first. Yeah. So you are definitely Team Swan, I guess. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely.

[00:31:39] I wish she was a little bit more, you know, forceful. I think she can be, I find her a bit too nice, too diplomatic at times. Right? And I felt that, especially, you know, when she, you know, I think, I think it was who she did. She put someone in their place this season. Because they were talking mad reckless. They were really talking reckless to her.

[00:32:07] And she was like, wait a minute, you know who you're talking to? Cool. I forgot who it was. I forgot who it was. It wasn't Aleda herself? It might have been. It might have been. But they were, yeah. When they had that one-on-one. Yeah, they were really talking shit to each other. Yeah. I think it was when they had that one-on-one. Yeah. And she was like, if you come for me in the hall again, you best have the votes this time. Yes, yes, yes. I want to see more of that. Yeah.

[00:32:37] Okay. I want more of that from her. Yeah. Yeah. And what do you think of, she's got on her side, Varen Adelaus, who is not quite as there with it after the first episode, thanks to Naomi, but still seems to be on their side. And Liana, the Keeper of the Chronicles. What do you think of these characters? I've not spent enough time thinking about them. Okay.

[00:33:03] Quite honestly, because I don't feel like they, when she, her memories got taken from her, like, I don't know if it's just her memories, her mental faculties, everything was just severed. You know, I felt that. I was like, oh man, that's messed up. But on the whole, I don't know how important they are to the overall story yet. Okay.

[00:33:31] So I'm not really as invested in them as I am in other characters. Okay. Fair. Fair. Fair. But we see all these, these four teaming up for this Black Aja hunt. And we saw the beginning of the Wonder Girls detective agency. That's, it's kind of messed up for them to send these accepted after the Black Aja. But then also like, yeah, what you going to do? You got to use the tools that are given to you.

[00:34:01] Yeah. Yeah. And what did, did you think that Elida was going to turn out to be a dark friend? No. No. No. No. You just thought she, she's a bitch, but she's not evil. Yeah. Yeah. I just thought this was someone who wants, who wants to be the power center. The one calling the shots. I didn't think she was going to be a dark friend. No. Yeah.

[00:34:27] Were you surprised when she took out Amako and Joya, the two Black Aja captives? Yes. Yes. Yes. Definitely. Definitely. I didn't see that coming. What do you think of the whole beef within the Red Aja? So we have, Sutama was the head of the Red Aja, but then she was sent out of the tower to go look for this false dragon in Gentle Him, Azrim Taim. Mm-hmm.

[00:34:51] So that leaves behind Galena, who seems more, seems more on board with Elida and Elida herself. I mean, but. Go ahead. I was going to say, and then we also saw Elida making allies with a member of the White Aja, Alviaren. Nah, she is someone I want to know what's going on with. Okay. Yeah. I want to learn more about the White Aja. Alviaren. Mm-hmm.

[00:35:20] I want to see, because when they were talking in the hallway, I kind of felt like she was like a dark friend. Mm. Why do you say that? I don't know. It just gave me vibes. Mm-hmm. Now, you know, my vibes are not always correct. I'm just saying. You know, I just felt like, ah, there was something, and I'm like, ah, why is she coming to her with this, you know, why is she trying to get her particularly on her side?

[00:35:50] Kind of. Mm-hmm. Is she in cahoots with, you know, bringing down the White Tower? Mm-hmm. You know? Mm-hmm. So something felt off. So I need to find out more. Yeah. Yeah. so our quote unquote heroes our main characters in the white tower have most suspicion for the red aja do you think obviously landrin was a dark friend now she's been outed and gone and then we

[00:36:18] saw that do you think that there are do you think that there's a reason for them to be suspicious of the red aja we know elida now seems to definitely not be a dark friend uh do you think to suspect sutama or galena or those are really the only other reds we've met i suspect everyone

[00:36:40] okay um no one is beyond suspect at this point like if i'm suan i'm i don't trust i'm not even the closest person to me i don't trust yeah the only person i trust right now if i'm her is moray that's it okay yeah she cannot afford to trust anyone else let let them prove her wrong let

[00:37:09] them be wrong let let me be wrong that's what she should be thinking to me i'll be wrong let them prove me wrong but i don't trust anyone the only person i trust is moray that's it right okay okay and um we haven't seen him this season at all um but we know somewhere in the tower locked up is the gentled false dragon logaine who was a big character in the last two seasons uh any thoughts

[00:37:35] on him i didn't even think about him until you just i love logaine i'm not gonna lie i have not thought about that man not once not once a man locked up that's what we do sometimes you know you get locked up the people forget about you that's that's that's the most terrible thing about

[00:38:00] you know getting locked up you know everybody at home kind of like forgets about you so yeah i forgot about this man oh yeah but it's interesting that you know like these false false dragons do they just like pop up like is it something that you know was one day some dude somewhere wakes up and

[00:38:25] is burst bursting at the seams with the one power and it's like ah i'm i'm him i'm that guy i'm i'm the dragon reborn you know is it something that is being manipulated um you know like so yeah i got questions about this like i have questions yeah i think these are good questions i think these are good questions yeah but you're not gonna answer right that's what you're saying

[00:38:53] i don't know maybe it's a little of everything but i i can see why you know if you are a man who can channel and you know you're destined to go mad because of it um and i have to say there are false dragons we talked about this in the timeline episode in the lower cast but there are false dragons in the past who um didn't couldn't channel we didn't talk about those specifically in the timeline because they're not considered as important but um there's this mystique around

[00:39:20] especially if you can channel and you know this means you're going to go mad but what if you are actually the one who is destined to save or break the world i can understand why one would want to believe that about themselves saving and breaking the world is the same thing in order to save the world the world needs to be broken this is what the iel understand yeah but not the aesadai

[00:39:49] because if that's breaking the world if that's the case then let them break the world i mean but of course but that's also like do we want people to break our world no and we might not trust that people who want to break our world are doing it to quote unquote save it i mean i've heard a lot of people talking about breaking the world over the last eight years i'll tell you that much yeah you know so but what does that look like you know what is that who do we trust to

[00:40:17] save the world by breaking it or who do we just think are going to break it um okay so speaking of people who want to break the world um isham al was the original forsaken we met did you forget about him before the flashback no no no no no i didn't forget okay that was my guy i like that guy i like that guy i didn't forget about him i thought that was excited to see him back yeah i was

[00:40:42] i was because that the last battle with him and everyone that was that was dope that was yeah yeah that was dope it's season two finale season two finale sorry that that was yeah that was dope yeah and um i i like how so one thing in the book but i have a question i'm sorry i have a question yeah okay go go go is him and lanfear who's more powerful um is that is that something that's ever thought

[00:41:10] about or you know sure there yeah there's there's he is more physically powerful in the power but lanfear has other like she's better at dreamwalking which gives her certain powers whereas you know then raven on the other hand is obviously better at compulsion so um so each one of them is are they

[00:41:35] trained like the aesadai are trained or is this something that just you know they were in the age in the age of legends they were all aesadai 3 000 years ago more than 3 000 years ago they were all originally aesadai and they were um amongst the most powerful channelers of the age of legends and uh these are yeah the powerful channel the most powerful channelers that um the dark one attracted

[00:42:02] to himself for various reasons was lanfear the first um she i don't what i don't know or i don't know off the top of my head at least if we know the order and in which they joined the dark one she did she it's not we saw her obviously in that flashback and ran's flashback and um at that time she was just mir and sadai she was as far as we know and people might debate this but as far as we

[00:42:31] know she was driven by just scientific interest you know and she was trying to spin it as like oh it'll help humanity and ran's ancestors like uh do we need that help actually but right um but it wasn't like she was like oh i want to free the dark one you know not consciously at least okay okay so it's not like she was the first to join per se after that but we don't it's a bit hazy the details

[00:42:59] about what happens after she opens the board we just know she's the one who opened it okay for scientific research yeah um but yeah so what what do you think of lanfear overall um i said you know i want to trust her because of her love for ran or lose whatever we want to call

[00:43:24] them right but then it's like nah i can't really trust her i can't really trust her motivations and then i see the boar and once again i'm like maybe she's not this evil thing that i'm thinking that she is but then you see what she's doing to egwene and like that's some evil shit you know

[00:43:52] what i'm saying so i'm i'm stuck i'm torn between wanting to trust her and trusting her and understanding that she cannot be trusted under any circumstances right yeah um her character overall i think because she's making me question like this her character is great it's a great yeah yeah it's a

[00:44:15] great character because i'm questioning this about her right and i just don't yeah i just don't see how if i'm rand i can put my faith in her and then this is my own personal

[00:44:38] prediction i think almost this is let me not say it now because i'm i'm no say i'm projecting ahead to the end of the story right okay and i i think that if not everyone dies almost everyone dies but if everyone dies she's the one that stays alive she's like a cockroach she's the one yeah

[00:45:04] not the spider mogetion no no no i think if everyone dies she's the one that stays alive okay okay which is why i asked about her her you know power in relation to ishmael you know what i'm saying so ishmael yeah she's not the most powerful but she is one of the most influential for sure yeah

[00:45:32] yeah so yeah that's a question of yeah so and the thing is too i can see her siding with rand at some point to take down the ultimate evil the dark one right i can see her you know throwing her her power and helping him but then i also can cannot fathom that she would turn away from the power that she does

[00:45:59] have right now because i don't know if she was ever as powerful before becoming land fear as she is as land fear right mm-hmm she has access to another power source a purer as she put it in the flashback power source so i don't know if she's willing to give that up yeah yeah we see that she immediately assumes she's in control calling meetings and i love this about this show that they're doing that i

[00:46:26] love in the books the forsaken meetings where they just meet somewhere random and they all have their own agendas and they're all stabbing each other in the back yeah the little spider lady creep is super creepy but yeah i don't think she survived i don't think she survived i don't think i said i have here in the notes moghetti and getting her freak on wherever she feels like it mostly tanjiko this season yeah i don't think she's surviving i don't think she's gonna survive because she also we've seen i mean she has other

[00:46:55] talents that i might have uh let slip in the um talents uh lower cast but we see her that she's a master of compulsion in a different way from raven we saw her do that to uh yeah yeah that weave is yes she she had them yeah and i don't know if you notice in that uh dream where leia where land

[00:47:21] fair confronts leandrin when leandrin she finds leandrin sitting on the white tower throne on the emerald seat um there was a flash moghetti almost hiding in the shadows watching that yeah this i did peep that i didn't peep that i did peep that which yeah it's fitting she's not we don't really know where the gray men specifically come from in the books um so it's new that they say moghetti and creates them but just it fits with her persona because the gray men are also creatures that you don't see

[00:47:50] until coming right right yeah yeah all right so we've talked about ishamiel land for your moghetti and raven any thoughts about samuel is the last forsaken we've met so far last seen in a shocking get it moment in the waste yeah you had a cool ass hammer you know what that what hammer whatever you

[00:48:17] want to call it that that was cool and ran ended him i think you know it looks like to me that he's no longer part of the story so he came through for cool hammer i gotta respect it i love it you know but um yeah i'm interested to see if if ran if he is actually ended or not i'm not sure yeah i mean

[00:48:41] i said in the episode seven breakdown that um i think it takes more than that to take a forsaken out but right right we'll see yeah and just to call out for everyone a reminder that we still have three forsaken yet to meet uh we know two of them are graindal and semarag because they've been shouted out by name and there's a third one they haven't named yet so

[00:49:07] okay so let's switch over to tanchico we already talked about this a bit we talked about the sea folk uh the athan we are that uh got them there the sisters coin and joran anything more you wanted to throw out about your favorite new group no i i think they're i want to i want to see if they i don't know they're sea goers but do they port somewhere i want to know where that port is

[00:49:33] where do they you know what where do they call home or are their ships home right so these are things that i want to learn a little bit more about um yeah how far you know away from the rest of this world are they uh what's what's the group that was um here last last season the sentient shan chan

[00:49:56] yeah so the shan chan are if you think about the wheel of time map looks a little bit like our own um in where continents are located so the westlands where the story mostly takes place is kind of europe and africa and then where the north and south america is that's where the shan chan came from and the sea folk are from the sea from islands and yeah some of them definitely live on

[00:50:26] boats all the time and some of them just live on the islands okay okay so yeah i want to see more of their home um their traditions how they you know do they channel in other ways um because i thought it was cool to see you know the wind fire looked up yeah when they i forgot who whose eyes we were looking at through whose eyes we're looking at i can't remember the uh through nine even elaine yeah

[00:50:52] yes when they saw them channel they're like oh shit they channel like yeah they channel you know you're not the only ones you know and whatever yeah lies i have been feeding you yeah well it's not i mean the eyes that i i know they just don't know they're just they're just arrogant according their own truth yeah it's hubris all right so whatever they've been feeding you it's not true

[00:51:19] yeah and i love that you know that that scene where they were like oh wait a minute like yeah wait a minute y'all y'all might not be siding with some people that y'all want to be siding with you know what i'm saying question the eyes of die question the teachings you gotta question the teachings sometimes you gotta update update the

[00:51:47] the philosophy you know what i'm saying it's been how how many thousands of years yeah it's been more than well like three thousand yeah right but then they also had a uh a period that's true the eyes existed in the age of legends too yeah yeah right so sometimes you gotta update man you gotta update i said i gotta update they shit because right now i'm telling you i would not want to be down with

[00:52:14] them i'm sorry yeah i'm not saying i want to be a dark friend you know i'm not saying that but i couldn't be down with the eyes of die nah and this is this is something i want to see more in star wars 2 which is one of the reasons why i love the high republic stuff so much is because like the jedi are like well if you can you know channel the force so to speak then you are a jedi and

[00:52:38] it used to be in the high republic at least there were all different types of force users yeah yeah it's not just one way to use it you know not just one way to think about it cohen said um there's not just one way to channel just like there's not just one way to be a woman yes that was that was it's a great line yeah she had some great lines yeah it's a great line you know and when moraine sees um the

[00:53:06] who were the aiel in the ways channel when she you know put a stop to to what's his name uh kool-a-deen yeah yeah looking like a knockoff you know karl drago you know what i'm saying god i wasn't feeling that man i'm not gonna lie to you i didn't like him i didn't like him i'm like you're out here trying to be karl get out of here there's only one karl drago you know what i'm saying so yeah yeah he's no karl drago you know and just and she you know put him in his

[00:53:35] place real quick with a quick hand motion moraine was like oh shit like they can do that yeah yeah yeah you're not the only ones yeah yeah i love that in the story when they meet new channelers and they're like what yeah you know like and just because you're not the only ones doesn't mean that they're doing it wrong right just because they don't do it the same way as you and there are

[00:54:01] some advantages to the differences in the ways i would assume yeah i would assume that yeah so tenchico itself you already talked about how yeah i like um how they made the city really come to life uh we've got the whole block black aja situation there with leandrin and then may they rest in peace naomi and ispan shefar and we've still got there with leandrin jen kade and

[00:54:28] chesma emery any thoughts on the whole black aja storyline yeah they gotta you know be careful around leandrin because her stated goal is you know to become what a forsaken what will she do to do that yeah you know what won't she do to do that so anyone who's around her has to be very careful

[00:54:55] yeah but i would say i mean leandrin has to be careful around the others as well because i do think either of those two she killed would have killed her if they've given the chance well that's you know when you lie with thieves that's what happens right you don't know who you can trust who you can turn to who has your back right doesn't so that's the situation with with that

[00:55:22] crew right there um but yeah it's it's going to be interesting to see how they how they work that out if they work it out yeah because there's bound to be other black aja who just don't see things the way that she does who want to go a different route a different path and you know to get to the same ends but they just want to do it differently so how will that

[00:55:50] play out will there be a power struggle amongst them you know so yeah story to tell and then on the other hand with our other crew in tanchico i'm calling the wonder girls plus we have naive who has a powerful block and a new powerful enemy elaine the daughter heir who's letting loose the devilishly lucky matt and min who wants to do right by matt after these especially after she

[00:56:18] betrayed him last season but also after these visions she sees of him uh in a hanging rope what what do you what are your thoughts on this group and their stories this season i mean i i want more of min's story you know i want to spend more time with her um to learn more about her character about who she is and you know what she's gone through and how she's gone through these things and um

[00:56:44] yeah so i'm very interested in that i'm i aside from matt mm-hmm like i don't want her own thing yeah i don't want min matt i just want min right so i'm hoping to get more from her because i feel like i i kind of know the other characters a little bit better than i know okay yeah yeah yeah matt's one of my favorite

[00:57:13] characters but as i say why he just starts to come to life at this point um i think you're just this is the first season where you're really starting to see why but it's like he has it's it's the whole thing like with what swan said to him when he was still at the tower about how he reminds her of his uncle where he's just like he looks like he looks like a laggard and a party boy and you know all this stuff uh but he does at the end of the day um when it comes down to it he he puts himself on

[00:57:42] the line to help other people okay okay i wasn't feeling them the first two seasons so no that's fair that's fair yeah i do i was i'm one who's really happy with the matt recast i'm on record as saying that yeah it's more like my matt quote unquote in my head now right um but this is the first season where we really just saw like just the way he's you're just like oh matt shut up even also yes

[00:58:09] no i don't want to hug him i want to hug him shut up dude shut up just i mean that is very matt just like the uh he's got a mouth he's got a mouth and you're like hmm the horn blower you maybe you've heard of me yeah it's like string of bell you don't put your you don't put the the indictment on paper you know the criminal conspiracies you don't write it down bro like what are we doing here

[00:58:38] what are we doing and i have to say i mean i always i liked elaine well enough in the books but i think she's really come to life in the show and i'm so glad she got that musical moment in episode six well you know the thing is for me with her i i didn't um yeah i think i'm starting to warm to her now um this season uh because i i really wasn't

[00:59:06] you know like no not really um that's when we first when she's first introduced i'm just like whatever she felt bland to me blah you know okay and i think um in relation with her family and also in relation to how she's around the core crew um fleshed her out a little bit more for me

[00:59:32] okay okay yeah and um and nine eve how you've i mean so nine eve we saw in episode one where she just we saw you know she keeps being told she's the strongest channeler in a thousand years and we saw her let loose this like volcano of power in the first season and um we only get the merest glimpses of it so how are you feeling about we saw when mogetion um when she come you know did the compulsion

[01:00:00] on her and elaine nine eve fought back which scared mogetion a little bit you could tell okay okay i am not here to bash you know what i'm saying but all i know is

[01:00:21] i'm trying to understand this block that she has on accessing like why she's so afraid of accessing her her power of potential um i just don't get it like there's nothing that's happened in the series that feels to me that this should be happening to her

[01:00:48] i don't understand why i think coeen the um the you know the sea folk woman the wave mistress she put it best where she was like you know nine eve has a mountain woman personality where she's planting her feet too hard and she won't let herself be moved with the changes of the ocean yeah but you know what she's been moved though mm-hmm yeah she has to learn to lean from the first

[01:01:18] give herself over to it right so from where we were in episode one season one to where we are now it's not as if she hasn't changed like her situation hasn't changed like her experiences haven't changed and instead of these being things that kind of you know shape her seeing the things that she's seen

[01:01:45] hearing the things that her friends have gone through her loved ones have gone through i don't understand this i don't want to call it stubbornness it is stubbornness is it she's very stubborn yeah but stubborn to access something that can actually help people i don't get but i i think it's also

[01:02:12] just and i think maybe and this is something we didn't talk about in the episode breakdown but maybe it helps her to see that there are others other types of channelers than the aes Sedai because i think she just had such a prejudice against the aes Sedai as well and she's like i don't want to be that you know um because she also there's that whole story that they haven't picked up on again where they said that her the wisdom before her who like rescued her um went to the tower and this is a thing that's

[01:02:39] invented for the show it's not from the books but they said that she was rejected at the tower now probably book readers would say that probably means that she just wasn't that strong in the power though that wisdom who is rejected because they don't like look at swan she came from nothing and she became the emerald seat it's not right about buying your way in or anything like that but nainee from her perspective she really hated the aes Sedai and thought that they were prejudiced and awful

[01:03:05] so i can imagine part of her didn't want to become one of them so maybe not only the stuff coen said maybe also just um seeing that there are like as queen said there are other ways to be a channeler other ways to be a woman than being a nice to die maybe that helps her i hope it does because again

[01:03:23] i'm just not sold on any reasoning that she is behaving in this manner like refusing to access this power that can help the people that she loves like she's rejecting it outright because of her hatred of the eyes it doesn't make sense yeah okay that she would do such a thing

[01:03:53] yeah she's a character who a lot of people have her as their absolute favorite character in all the stories but i think these are people who readers especially who finish the books but um she's a frustrating character for a lot of people too and i have to admit that i have often fallen on the side that gets frustrated with her and i think that they've softened that for this show a bit oh my gosh oh yeah

[01:04:26] whoa i was not expecting that i wasn't expecting that wow yeah oh man yeah but i guess suffice it to say you were ready for her to break through this block yeah yeah i mean and i don't mean for her to become the most powerful person walking the earth people keep telling her that she's i know but she's yeah i don't need to see i mean she's not the dragon

[01:04:49] but you know right i don't close i'm not asking for that but i am asking for is the recognition that you know her friends at times could be facing death and she's here you know like all tense and unable to access the thing that can help them and she's supposed to be a helper

[01:05:16] right she's supposed to be that yeah she's a she was a wisdom she's a healer yeah so i i don't get it i don't understand it and purely for you know whether it's the bias against the eyes to die or being afraid of embracing a role that she never thought she would have to embrace i don't know

[01:05:42] but at this point of the story for me it feels a bit it just doesn't feel right mm-hmm not at this point okay okay okay um were you excited to see tom rejoin the group no no no no not really okay well i was okay yeah all right fair fair fair all right all right

[01:06:11] not for everyone okay let's take a quick pause here and when we come back we'll talk about the last two uh story arcs or plot yeah location arcs i guess uh one that i think is your least favorite and then

[01:06:25] ending with the one i think is your favorite just a sec okay we got to talk about what's going on in

[01:06:51] the two rivers which is you know means we're going to be talking about what you've called your least favorite episode of the season episode seven um you are not a huge fan of lord golden eyes the reluctant leader no i'm not and what i go with parent all right again i i am not asking for for folks to be

[01:07:19] you know world beaters or you know to come through like the galactus or something like that you know i'm not saying any of that but what i am saying is that watching him this episode one be this you know i just can't help but going back to what they've all experienced leading up to

[01:07:48] here to this point what they've all gone through he knows what's out there he he knows what the white cloaks do to folks he knows what the dark one is about he's experienced it he's lived it

[01:08:12] right this is what's coming for your friends the place you grew up this is what's coming for them you have to be more than what you showed leading up to the final battle you have to be more than what

[01:08:39] you showed after that battle but you don't think he should have honored his deal to turn him hell no hell no sam wilson get his sam wilson ass out of here hell no but at least he didn't turn someone else in that's what sorry captain america for spoilers but at least he didn't turn someone else no you're right you're right but no no he should not have honored that throne no he should not have

[01:09:06] absolutely not absolutely not because you're leaving this is not and and here's the thing he didn't kill what's his name dark pad and fane pad and fane he didn't kill him right where he should have period point blank he should have because me personally i feel that if he had killed them

[01:09:31] the trolecs would have been in disarray and the dark friends would have been in disarray because their leader was gone the person who they were looking for for direction and that would have turned the battle anyway for me that he let him go saying what did what did he tell him you know oh you know if you yeah if you come back i will kill you

[01:09:58] basically like he's not gonna come back like you're gonna see this guy again whether it's at two rivers or somewhere else this guy is gonna be there looking to kill you and the people you care about you don't let him go you don't let him go under any circumstance

[01:10:25] okay none yeah yeah so that's decision number one battle's over white clothes come through with like 10 people on horses you know are you gonna honor your what you said no i'm not no i'm not you know why i'm not gonna

[01:10:49] honor it because you bought a whole legion of dark friends because you were blinded by your single-minded hatred for me and you almost killed everybody that i know this is on as much as you we want to say you know we don't know you can't tell me

[01:11:14] that they didn't know what are we doing here so you're gonna say to this guy well yeah you know i'm gonna honor my my oath to you to go to to go die fuck out of here no no i killed your your daddy and you know shit happens it happened you know what i'm saying you almost killed my entire family

[01:11:43] you almost killed everybody that i that i care about how many people have go ahead do you think dame bornhold can be redeemed or do you think he's too far gone i will never say someone cannot be redeemed that's not parents to redeem it

[01:12:05] it's not parents even though parent killed his father no it's not it's not because i can make i can be sorrowful for the things that i've done right but it's up to the person whether they're going to move on and forgive or not okay i can't i can't make someone forgive and move on well but you can help

[01:12:31] i i don't i don't see it that way okay i just don't i don't see it that way because you could be remorseful you can be you can do all the right things but at the end of the day the person is going to hold on to that pain and look at you as the source of that pain forever that's on them right okay and i'm not saying that he doesn't feel pain for the death of his father but i look at these folks in these white clothes like that whole entire scene is etched in my mind it's like

[01:13:02] you know he's in these the handcuffs being led with a rope following horses it's like a a scene out of my worst nightmares these people in white cloaks on horses and you're trailing behind them with your glorious afro

[01:13:25] like no in shackles yeah in shackles to go be judged by these people you don't judge me given what i know i don't know anything except what i've seen on the show about the white cloaks given what i know they're in no position to judge anyone no i know i would not want to submit myself to their judgment no right they're in no position to judge anyone and he is being honorable by allowing

[01:13:53] them to take him to be judged fuck out of here and leaving the people who are who are screaming lord golden eyes because they're recognizing you they see something in you that they haven't seen something that gives them hope and you're willing to turn your back to go be judged by these fucks

[01:14:21] bugging out um what do you think about the demise of eman valda who threw a lot of barbecues in the last few seasons and now got in got invited to the cookout i want all white cloaks again i don't know their history i don't know what they've done but from what i've seen them do they all could kick rocks mm-hmm so who is he in line in front of a light out eman valda

[01:14:50] ooh yeah kinda yeah kind yeah i would say so i would say so yes i haven't seen her do the monstrous things that i've seen these people do no just advise more gays to kill her uh rivals yeah but he but he was cutting off hands and burning people yeah just for pleasure yeah he would say otherwise but yeah no no he would say otherwise but you know you could see it in his eyes you could see

[01:15:18] it in his eyes his face it was for pleasure right so yeah like i'm not letting these people who commit these terrible atrocities pass moral judgment on me for what i've done yeah and parent is is saying that he's going to allow them to pass moral judgment upon him for what he's done these people hell no no hell

[01:15:41] no no so what do you think of the introduction of fayil as a character and as a love interest for pair in this season he doesn't deserve her he doesn't he doesn't deserve her you know she's trying to pull something out of this this this person that you know he doesn't want to pull out

[01:16:10] well i mean maybe i mean i guess in a way um it's funny that they they really emphasize their size difference in this and they actually both actors refer to her as the pocket rocket in their relationship um but i guess that is the sense of like they're they're an odd couple in a way yes they are but in a way i find that works so i don't know it's not that you know i could see them working

[01:16:38] i could and i could see myself saying you know i like them together but i don't like them together with this parent i don't like this parent i just don't anyone who's willing to to let i don't i he's seen what these people have done to people

[01:17:04] mm-hmm he's experienced it himself yeah and he's willingly being led in chains so they can judge him i can't i can't stand by that hmm so what do you think fayil's going to do in his absence now that he's let her know the hunt for the horn is actually over um lord luke the other horn hunters there in town

[01:17:33] too um and then other than that it's you know it's the two rivers folk it's a gwayne's mom mar and all fear we've got 10 boy the grumpy man days conger oh the new wisdom rip natty carlton rip but we've got uh ban and will all seen those were the two teens that parent was mentoring who are now left without that mentorship although we have arm maybe stepping in what do you think that's that dynamic

[01:17:59] dynamic with the people left in the town is going to look like with parent off in the white coat camp i think it's very you know long term it could be very shaky but personally i think she's going to try to free him yeah yeah i don't think she's gonna you know let him be led to the gallows i don't think that's right there's she's definitely a woman with agency for sure yeah yeah i don't think that's gonna happen

[01:18:26] and and you know i think she says her father her parents are generals or something like that so she's well i don't know who i mean she could throw up the best signal you never know you never know you know she could she could call up some you know friends to come help out um after seeing what she's seen right uh so yeah i just don't think she's gonna let that stand i don't

[01:18:53] think she's gonna ride that out i think she's gonna go and try to definitely free him okay and he's gonna be the jerk that's gonna be like oh don't free me don't do it duty yeah i have to stay yeah yeah um so what do you think of we kind of got a contrast in this last episode between

[01:19:16] peron and arum uh arum who is now the fallen to atham with his grandmother i'm calling her illa the unforgiving um what do you think of arum as a character um yeah i i'm so happy for him that he's getting away from the leaf you know i i i really i know it's gonna be hard to adjust but i am so happy for

[01:19:44] that brother you know because the leaf life it's not that it's not that it's not it's not that i i don't care what anyone says um to shun him for saving a baby for doing what he had to do to save a baby that that says it all to me that says it all to me about the dogmatic approach to life that these people have they're just like the

[01:20:14] isa die update your update your philosophy it's been how many thousands of years yeah it's true they are also clinging to the old ways yeah clinging clinging to it and for me it's just like you know i can't they did make an oath once upon a time how terrible is that

[01:20:41] they made an oath many thousands of years ago millennia ago many millennia ago and you know he just saved a baby from being eaten and slaughtered and because of that oath you're like oh no you gotta go you're not family anymore you're not part of us anymore because you did that nah nah any anyone who

[01:21:07] could any any state of reasoning that sees that as reasonable kick rocks like yeah no no so i'm very happy that he's getting away from the leaf people um you know i wouldn't be upset if i never saw the leaf people again oh oh

[01:21:33] it won't i won't be mad if i never have to encounter another leaf person again like y'all go do what y'all do because y'all are problematic okay um um so what do you think about what's going on with alana and maxim this season uh they've we've got the threesome that became a

[01:22:02] twosome was struggling with it alana found two new acolytes in uh matt's sisters what are your thoughts on that i'm i'm worried about her about alana yeah in what way i'm worried that she is going to do whatever she thinks she has to do no matter the consequences to other people

[01:22:27] i think she will be willing to sacrifice folks for her and her in her eyes to get the job done so i'm very worried that she's taking a turn where she's going to just be i don't care who gets hurt in the process but the end goal is the end goal and that's what we're going to do

[01:22:53] mm-hmm so i'm worried about her okay okay and what about the last group in this part of the story was we had our our two ayul uh bane and chiad they go she goes where she goes and loyal his name sings in our ears that was i was that was a big blow for book readers that loyal went down this episode yeah

[01:23:21] i i i um it's a big big blow for me um i didn't understand why they sacrificed them i i thought it was i think it's a terrible decision because i think he gave something to the show that no one else has given um not only in appearance right amongst the peoples that we've gotten to know

[01:23:50] right but also in countenance the way that he is right so to me it's like there's this there's a hole without him in the show he brings something i i can't even explain how i want to explain it but he adds something to our characters to the story that i don't understand why that thing

[01:24:15] is going to be taken out not only isn't he human or human looking right he's a storyteller he's a channeler in a different way right he's a weaver and to take that out really upset

[01:24:38] yeah i did i saw i saw um i mean i was really upset by this too as i said in the episode breakdown but um i saw an interview with him that made me wonder if the practicality of the prosthetics played a big role in this because apparently he was spending once they got the time down a lot he was finally spending quote unquote only five hours every morning before everyone else got up to have these on

[01:25:06] and then he had to wear these heavy prosthetics around the whole time and then it still takes he hours to take that off i know um so i do wonder if that played a role in this as well that maybe i mean that's a good reason more cgi money to make it a cgi character maybe that would be more comfortable for him right i don't know i mean that's a good reason yeah not understand yeah but

[01:25:34] i hate it for yeah i do wonder if that's i mean that makes me a bit more forgiving of that decision if that plays a role yeah right but i just hate it for the show yeah i know i know i really do yeah yeah yeah yeah i agree i agree all right well let's turn our attention to what i think is probably your your favorite story arc of the season which is i'll waste um what are your thoughts overall on the

[01:26:00] threefold land and the i'll culture that you were exposed to this season um i i need to learn more about it um i i feel like this is just the tip of the iceberg right there's so much that's not being shown not being explained um but i thought that the episode i i just i'm in awe of episode four

[01:26:24] from this season like it that journey that ran took through through time to understand who he is now that again quite possibly is the most well done hero you know awakening that has been shown on screen

[01:26:51] like and i whenever i i think about the episode i just think about the steps how he's stepping and how he's fighting against you know a force and each step is harder than the last so it's just a powerful thing

[01:27:10] to watch him learning and understanding who his people are because it's not just one people right right he's born of two different cultures and he's been living for the last i don't know how long

[01:27:33] how how much time has passed in the in the series but with these expectations placed on him not understanding not knowing and now he finally gets it right he's finally having some inkling some understanding of his place in his role in this entire tapestry that's being shown to him and i thought it was just so captivating

[01:28:03] it really was yeah yeah yeah yeah and moraine's visions any thoughts about that oh what she was in the wheel of time um yeah that's the three rings yeah i'm calling them the wheels of time because there was yeah i mean we did see the turning like the wheel yeah that was so cool i shared in the discord a video where um the director of that episode talks about the cinematography behind making that happen

[01:28:30] right the camera that they use to rotate and stuff yeah just just gorgeous it was just gorgeous um um and i think moraine i've had issues with her as well um maybe it's because she's you know a isa die um yeah that i felt that she's been very dogmatic as well in her relationship with rand

[01:28:54] um and with land at certain points of of the series as well um so i've had my issues with her but i think this season has kind of um shown her to me in a in a kind of new light i'm happy to see that she doesn't know everything that she she realizes that she doesn't know everything

[01:29:22] that she doesn't have all the answers that she doesn't have all the truth um that's a welcome you know character development for me and and her going through these i don't know timelines or alternate lives alternate realities um where she always seemingly dies that's really and to come out

[01:29:47] of that with those memories with intact and understanding that what you have just gone through actually you know either can happen will happen or has happened you know um it has to force some sort of change in attitude with how she views her relationships with the people around her because

[01:30:15] she's been very aloof to me i think at some points and maybe this grounds her more with the people that she has you know in her company so i look forward to seeing if that is indeed the case yeah yeah some of my favorite scenes of the season have been her conversations with specifically rand and and lan as you

[01:30:39] called out you know just um her tenuous relationship with rand where and where she i do believe she just wants to help him she's literally that's been like what she has dedicated her life to and lan as well um but also lan has to remind her like remember you're still a human and whatever our fates are we can just be two old friends sitting around this fire drinking uskwai tonight right right um or you

[01:31:06] know with ren where she's like well maybe actually you have some things to teach me as well like how do you deal with that much power right now i think it's um again this entire season has been a welcome

[01:31:26] change in moraine for me so i'm enjoying that she's not static right so she she's not like um naive right where she what did what did they they say she's like uh the she's like the mountain woman who

[01:31:49] doesn't want to move right right yeah so you can see moraine has moved right i can tell she has moved and that is just i'm happy that they did that yeah yep yeah so um any thoughts on we've met the tardad clan with ruark the clan chief and his wives bear

[01:32:17] the wise one leon the roof mistress and versus on the other hand the other uh um clan that we met is the shaido and we met savannah though who's kind of a wise woman she calls herself that but hasn't really gone through it and kuladin who again also his brother died in the um columns so kuladin yeah also uh showing a lot of anger for someone who doesn't actually know the truth

[01:32:45] right right and and that's the thing right we we're i think we're all fed these things in life right we all have these sets of beliefs that we're given and some of us you know hold on to those beliefs to the very end and some of us are able to you know take what we learn along the way and adjust

[01:33:13] right um and he doesn't know the truth he only he only knows what he's been told you know he hasn't experienced it and you know what do you do with someone who very well could be a ass under any circumstance right under any circumstances but you know we know

[01:33:36] that he doesn't know mm-hmm does that his brother couldn't take it right right his brother called his own eyes out when he found out the truth yeah so does that make him more you know sympathetic as a character um i don't know yet i don't know yet but i i do want to learn more about these separate clans

[01:33:59] yeah and um we've also seen a lot of egwain with the wise ones bear and malaine learning about telaran riyad the dream world and dream walking wait what do you think of tar that tell it telaran riyad riyad they say um again i i'm you know the thing is i want to spend more time in these

[01:34:24] locales and these places and you know what i mean so i've not yet really i feel in some ways like i felt in the first season about some of these places not knowing right waiting to be exposed to more and i'm just hoping that it goes as well going forward as it as it has you know with this season because

[01:34:51] again i think everything that i've learned that i didn't know about feels so wonderful it's refreshing right like i'm picking up little things little tidbits about places and people that i had no idea existed and had no idea that you know this world was so expansive right and i want to learn more so

[01:35:21] i'm watching the scenes and i'm just like oh shit this is kind of cool so and then the scene's over i'm like oh what when can we go back to that you know what i mean so and i think that's a good thing when when i can say in a series um that we hopefully get a few if not many more um seasons

[01:35:42] that we i can say i can't wait to go back to that yeah yeah um are you glad about that rand and iguane seem to be finally going their separate ways yes yes yes i am yes yeah i thought it was yeah i wasn't buying them from season one and yeah okay yeah they did make sure to paint from

[01:36:07] the beginning i think the fact that there were always issues holding them back yeah yeah so i never bought them as you know gonna be together forever type shit yeah you know it's funny i was just looking at a gif and so okay so at the end of uh what was that episode six yeah um when alcera the girl dies yes and ren starts shoving the power into her out of desperation and says i can

[01:36:35] do anything you know um i noticed in the gif it cuts to a gwayne and she in like avienda's standing there stoically looking like her heart's breaking but a gwayne steps back with this look of like fear on her face yeah i remember that moment i remember that's telling you know yeah that's telling so i

[01:36:58] and let me just say that i really wanted him to lazarus the shit out of that situation i really wanted him to lazarus it out and it just broke my heart that he couldn't do it and it broke my heart that to watch him understand that he couldn't do it you know

[01:37:21] i felt so bad i felt so bad yeah yeah in the books it is a little more grotesque we talked about this a bit in the um in the discord but like he kind of she becomes like a puppet where he's you know he can put make the power make her muscles move and move you know but that doesn't make her alive

[01:37:43] right right yeah yeah that was tough that was tough yeah so uh you've watched the episode seven now and so that wrapped up the two rivers basically for the season but the finale needs to wrap up the other locations the waste we just talked about the tower and tanchico where we know we're gonna go to the panarchs palace because everyone keeps talking about the panarchs palace um what are your hopes for

[01:38:11] the finale oh i don't have hopes i don't have hopes i'm going into it with you know open eyes and mind that is a tabla rasa you know what i'm saying i just want to see and experience what they do um because if i have hopes and those things don't happen then i'll be disappointed and i i don't want

[01:38:39] this season has not caused me to be disappointed even with my dislike of the episode seven parent right okay so i i just want i just want something that makes sense to the story that we've been told for the last seven episodes uh a finale that gives me um if not closure but that gives me um

[01:39:05] reason to believe that the story has been pushed forward as much as i feel like it's been pushed forward so that's what i'm looking forward to do um i don't know if we're gonna see all these disparate places you know i don't know if they're gonna be in tanchico i don't know if they're gonna go back to the white tower um i feel the one thing that they have to do is something with rand

[01:39:33] mm-hmm following you know the death of al-sara al-sara so that's the only thing that i'm expecting like something um with that with that emotion that he has following that mm-hmm all right comes what comes next well we know that they they talked about um that they needed to bring together all of the clan

[01:40:01] chiefs and al-kair dol to because rand has to tell them he's the khar khar and show his dragon arms so yeah that's what they've that's what they've set up uh we'll see how it plays out in less than a week yeah okay i'm excited i'm excited to watch um in the meantime listeners you can catch up on this week's lore cast which is all about the history of manetherin and the two rivers as it's known today

[01:40:30] uh that is available to everyone who has a supercast or patreon subscription um if you have the full subscription you get all the wheel of time stuff plus the extra severance rings power um more second breakfast and elevensies all that stuff but there is also a season pass option for people who just want the extra wheel of time lore casts and so that is ten dollars for it so far uh it's going to be 12

[01:40:59] lore casts in total plus the show guides with all the character guides and all that uh and add free access to all the previous wheel of time episodes so you can check the link tree in the show notes and you'll find links for that as well as links to all the affiliate podcasts radioactive ramblings they just released another episode about ghibli they did poño this time um my own wool shift dust in the

[01:41:23] star wars canon timeline podcast properly howard movie reviews rings and rituals which looks at uh the rings of power through the lens of ritual which looks at the rings of power through the lens of ritual and uh never mind the music which combines music and psychology and you've already heard mark on some wheel of time podcast he's a big wheel of time fan um you'll also find of course a link in the discord

[01:41:52] where we're chatting about all the wheel of time uh we've got different channels per episode and also channels uh for all these other things we're talking about um yeah lots of good conversation going on there uh we you and i are also we're having a very lively chat about daredevil lots of feelings about

[01:42:14] this season of daredevil it's always a good thing when people have opinions yeah um yeah and uh we've also got lots of other we've got so the finale we're gonna do uh we did one and two episodes of daredevil born again together and also subscribers have an extra daredevil episode looking back in the netflix shows uh so we did one and two we did a special episode for three also looking at the legacy of um

[01:42:41] camar de los reos the actor who passed away who played the white tiger and we did four through seven with luke that was a fun episode and we'll do one more to wrap up this season after the finale next week or this week as this we know next week yeah later at the end of this week yeah yeah yeah yeah the you know uh and also there's full coverage for they just did by the way a wrap up of the white lotus um there's also we've been sneaking into full coverage for doctor who and there's full coverage

[01:43:10] coming up for the last of us and also we are doing full coverage of andor even though they're doing the release schedule from hell oh my gosh and you can expect a another mailbag episode at the end of this season of the wheel of time if you want to contribute to that and and share your thoughts about the season so far then send that to

[01:43:33] what wot at the lorehounds.com you can also you know if you want to help our podcast and you don't want to become a subscriber you just can't do that for some reason uh no problem we're just first of all so happy that you're listening uh if you would like to share this episode with anyone else who enjoys the wheel of time or leave a review wherever you're listening those are also very helpful to us particularly

[01:43:57] of course positive reviews um shall i do the reading of the names yes so this is a special thank you shout out that we do every episode to all right we're setting it to the fantasy folder enemy in in honor of this is probably going to be intense in honor of the battle episode

[01:44:22] okay fantasy enemy uh our special shout out to the people who make our discord server a cool place to hang out the discord server boosters thank you aaron k tiller the thriller dork of the ninjas doove 71 athena ajalea tina the stew nancy m ghost of hardition and radioactive richard and thank you most of all to our lorehound subscribers but even more so to our highest tier of subscribers the

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[01:45:14] narls kathy w lestu jeffrey b elisa u neil f ben b scott f steven n julia f holly s ilmariel forward slash tim and always last adrian now john instead of shouting out to kevin feige would you like to say something to showrunner rave jetkins about the wheel of time or to parent you can send a

[01:45:39] message to parent if you want yeah yeah parent man just be better be better for yourself and be better for your people we out fail we'll save him the lorehounds podcast is produced and published by the lorehounds you can send questions feedback and voicemails at the lorehounds.com contact get

[01:46:08] early and add free access to all our episodes at patreon.com slash the lorehounds any opinions stated are ours personally and do not reflect the opinion of or belong to any employers or other entities nicole did you ever notice how the sign by ace of base has really strange key changes i did not mark i'm a real person well let me tell you about it i'll let you talk about neuroscience gobbledygook yes i

[01:46:36] thought you'd never ask this is the never mind the music podcast where one psychologist and one musician deep dive into the songs you love so you don't have to and there's plenty of time to get off topic from semi-charmed life to the way you move and who could forget the crossroads is it the crossroads or the crossroads save it for the episode mark listen to never mind the music wherever you get your podcasts