The White Lotus - Season 3 Midseason Check-in

[00:00:02] Are you ready for a deep dive into one of the most intense animated series out there? Welcome to Radioactive Ramblings, where we are currently breaking down the world of Invincible. Each week, we're gonna unpack the jaw-dropping twists, the unforgettable characters, and that trademark brutal action. From Mark Grayson's journey to the darker side of heroism, to our continued love of Debbie, we've got every moment covered. Mark, I don't want to hurt you. I'm not the one who's gonna get hurt.

[00:00:30] You said you don't do threats. Yeah. Well, people change. Whether you're a long-time fan or just getting started, tune in to our exclusive takes, fan theories, and so much more. Catch new episodes of Radioactive Ramblings every week. Your go-to podcast for all things Invincible and more. The wheel of time turns, and ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend.

[00:00:59] In one podcast, called The Lorehounds by Some, a weekly recap with tons of analysis, two Wheel of Time superfans will lead you through a world of powerful magic, tricky prophecies, and cutthroat politics. Join me, John, and my co-host Alicia for weekly coverage of Season 3 by searching your podcast app for The Lorehounds. Dovyeandi se tovassegin. It's time to roll the dice.

[00:01:43] Welcome to The Lorehounds Podcast, which is a podcast that's a lot like eating a box of chocolates. I'm John. And I'm David. And this is our mid-season check-in for White Lotus Season 3 on HBO. Well, David, we didn't do much of an intro here, but we covered White Lotus Season 2 in full. Correct. We were like, we'll so be back for Season 3. And we are. But there's a lot of other stuff going on here.

[00:02:13] So we still have the White Lotus email address, whitelotus at thelorehounds.com. Or you can just go to lorehounds at thelorehounds.com if that's easier. Just get it to us. If you want to send in feedback, go over there. Or if you want to be in real-time conversation, you can head on our Discord, which you can find in our link tree in the show notes.

[00:02:29] Right. And if you are into what we do and are excited for our Wheel of Time coverage and our Last of Us coverage and our Andor coverage and all the Marvel stuff that's happening and all the other side shows that are going on that we're going to talk about, we could really use your support.

[00:02:48] So if that's something that you've been considering for a while, we would love to have you subscribe as a regular subscriber on Patreon or Supercast. Go to the link tree in the show notes and sign up because we could really use your help. Got a lot of stuff going on, which is why we're not doing weekly on White Lotus. But I didn't catch up on this until like yesterday. It's fresh in your mind. It's very fresh. I watched all the episodes in like two days. I had a long train ride and I just binged it. Perfect. Perfect.

[00:03:18] Yeah. Do you want to give your hot takes on this season so far? I am a little bit listening to some of the other podcasters out there and seeing who's covering it and all of the analysis that's going on. Obviously, we're very busy with severance right now and doing that sort of deep dive analysis. But I'm seeing everybody else having fun swimming in the pool with Mike White in Thailand. And I'm a little bit like, oh, I wish I could be doing this scene by scene.

[00:03:47] Because there's some really great stuff. I mean, it has that familiar feel. Oh, it's White Lotus. Oh, you know, we're at this beautiful resort and we're with these beautiful people who are deeply messed up. Yep. All of that stuff feels so familiar. The cringe factor for me is still there. It's still very palatable. I love it. Palpable. I know you love the cringe. You do. You absolutely do.

[00:04:18] And I kind of look at this as, you know, there's different categories of television, right? There's like severance, prestige type stuff. And then there's all the way on the far side, just like, you know, like what we do in the shadows or Atlanta or things like that. Where it's just, wow, this is just some really fun, quirky entertainment or whatever. And this is somewhere in between of that really great prestige stuff. But it's also kind of a procedural entertainment thing.

[00:04:46] You know what you're going to get. But this is a box of chocolates that when you open it, everything's labeled, you know, where it's going to go and how it's going to flow. We're never going to stop talking about the box of chocolates. But every time you, you, you know, you, you're going to be delighted by, by what you get. The visuals are great. The interstitials are great. You know, all those, you know, scenes of the monkey or the water, all of that kind of stuff. You get Jason Isaacs leaning back in a bathrobe. Absolutely. A hundred percent.

[00:05:17] So it's great. And it's great having some connectivity to the past two seasons, but it's great to have a new cast as well and sort of going on. I don't want, I wonder how many more seasons can Mike White run this out? Maybe one, maybe two more seasons before the models tapped a little bit. I'm not with you there. Okay. I think, I think Mike White every season seems to tap into something.

[00:05:46] Something new. And, and something that feels very true to the human condition. Right. The human experience. And it reminds me almost of Tolkien saying like fiction is our way to distill the truth. Mm-hmm. Yep. That's very much a true thought for the Lorehounds community overall, I think. Yeah. And, and I think Mike White is just so good at it. So good at recreating conversations that feel authentic.

[00:06:13] Like, I don't, I don't think there's a single person better at writing like current dialogue than Mike White. I, I don't disagree with you. I'm talking about like dialogue you could hear in the real world right now. Contemporary. You could go to the White Lotus and hear people interacting like that. Right. And I, I just think there's no one better at writing that kind of dialogue on TV right now. I don't, I'm not going to put up any objection to that statement.

[00:06:41] I'm going to think about it, but I don't think I can object to you with that. That's a really good assessment. Anyway, I interrupted your hot take. So. Oh, well, I was mostly done anyway. I was just sort of wondering how much more he could go. Because, you know, part of his writing style has to be informed by the fact that he knows that there's a dozen podcasts and YouTube videos and TikTokers and stuff out there picking apart every scene. Yeah. Trying to decode what, you know, the Mike White thing is.

[00:07:09] So what, what, what is that going to take in terms of creativity for, for forthcoming seasons for that to make, not only be fresh, but continue to entertain us without boring us with the same formatting. But then getting so overburdened with the fake outs and intricacies and the layering and the symbology. So, you know, I don't know. Just a couple of other minor production details. The needle drops have been great. Yeah. I feel so.

[00:07:40] Marta was our special Italian correspondent for season two. You need a tie correspondent now. What's that? Yeah. We don't have a tie. Yeah. And I miss Marta. I miss getting an email from her every week, breaking down, decoding for us. So Marta, we miss you. We hope you are well. Pop us a note to say hi or, you know, maybe some feedback for that, for, you know, for the season so far.

[00:08:04] I wonder how many people we've left stranded by not doing weekly because I saw on Reddit, I, you know, every now and then I'll look up Lorehounds to see if someone's like the Lorehounds are terrible. But this person was like, hey, I'm looking for a podcast. The Lorehounds don't do it anymore for White Lotus. And I was like, oh, I feel badly. But I did respond to them. And I said, as the Lorehounds, I said, hey, we'll be doing a midseason. So I hope you're here now. Yes. Yeah. Anyway, the needle drops have been great, but I don't have anybody to decode them for me.

[00:08:30] So, and then like little things that like attention to detail, like with the subtitles, right? You have the English and then you have this Thai shadow behind it, which offsets the subtitles at the same time is give you some sort of contextual wrapper in some weird way. I just, I think it's a really nice flourish for such an ornate and beautiful written language and an ornate sounding language as well. It adds something to it.

[00:08:58] So, yeah, it's a notably tonal language, like very tonal Thai. And I actually had a friend in high school who spoke it and gave me a book on how to speak at once. And I spent like a week with it. And I was like, I just can't wrap my head around these tonal things. Also, I also had no use case for it other than like one guy who like, yeah, we didn't have trouble communicating already. But my point is, I think it's interesting. They spend like a whole scene like lingering on like, let's get Sritala.

[00:09:28] Correct, right? Sritala. Sritala. I think you go low, but you emphasize it, you know? La. Because it's not just like, when you go into this, it's not just like high and low. It's high ascending, high descending, low ascending, low descending, and medium. I think those are the five modalities that could be wrong. Interesting. This is like 15 years ago now that I read this book. But it's just such an interesting language.

[00:09:55] And I like that we're getting to see the staff. We always do that in the White Lotus. And I think this is no exception. We get some staff going on. I took notes on my phone as I was watching because I was on a train, like I said. And I have so many things to say about this. Great. Well, should we take a little break and then get into it? It's eight minutes in. I can't take a break yet. Oh, wait. Have you given your hot takes? I guess I haven't. I guess I haven't given my hot take. All right. I love the season.

[00:10:25] I think it's great. I think we'll have to see the rest of the season before I rank them between the other seasons. But so far, I think I like this season better than last season. Interesting. Okay. I just think it might just be recency bias because I just think Mike White, like I said, taps into something current in the cultural moment of the political divides between friends, frenemies in general, this idea of toxic masculinity and what's going to happen.

[00:10:55] How are these boys initiated into being toxic men and cultural appropriation? And he does this thing where he will show the flaws in everyone. Like, it's not just that like cultural appropriation is bad. It's not like even the people who think that they're doing it for the right reasons are like kind of being weird about it too. You know, it's, it's, oh, it's so interesting. It's so interesting.

[00:11:18] And then we get this connectivity with season one and two with Greg and Melinda that I think really is starting to turn the show into a more interesting saga than I thought it would become with this anthology type of, of storytelling. Yeah. And I like the fact that there is that interconnectivity. It's not pivotal. It's not necessarily, well, we don't know if it's going to be determinative in this one,

[00:11:47] but it adds an extra layer. We still get the, oh, you know, the fantasy island sort of the different parties show up or the love boat as our two shows that for my time period were each week we would be presented with this new cast of characters and the writers would wind up the clock or wind up the clockworks. And we'd see all the little figures go about the routines. But every week we had a setting that we understood.

[00:12:16] We had hosts that we understood. So in many ways, and I think Mike White and I are close contemporary. So I think he watched or, and he grew up in the shadow of his production. Yeah, he's definitely firmly Gen X. Yeah. And he grew up in the shadow, I believe in Pasadena of this kind of production and this kind of lifestyle that was being portrayed. And, and so where you have this, this regular framework, but then each week you get these different characters.

[00:12:45] But the nice thing that carried you through was Mr. Rourke and, you know, Julie and Isaac and, you know, everybody. So you had these through lines, but every time you got to keep it refreshed. And I think you're right. He does that really well. Yeah. Well, I think let's get into more specifics. Okay. Why don't, why don't we start the recap and then we'll take a break a little bit through. Okay. And that's a question for us, I guess.

[00:13:12] We put together an outline that has the one through four synopsis. We've got some symbology, we've got some themes, we've got characters, we've got a Deadpool we've got to talk about. So are you, are you making bets yet? Um, I had a premonition today and I, I did. A tsunami premonition? Yeah. You're dreaming of tsunamis now? Yeah. So I've, I've got a box of cereal. Uh, I've got a couple of bowls of cereal that I'm going to push onto the table and put

[00:13:41] my marker down. Yeah. I buy it. I buy it. So you've, you've created this outline. So maybe why don't we talk about the different plot lines and we can sort of work in the other things as we go. Right. Yeah. I didn't know how we wanted to approach it. Cause we're, we really should just take the whole four episodes as a group. Right. Uh, and not spoilers for everything. Yes. That's aired up to now. Cause trying to catch up on four episodes of a really dense show, I think would drive us crazy. Yeah. Even though I want to talk about so many scenes and little details, a little character.

[00:14:11] I know me too. Um, so, so do you want to read your recaps? No, sure. Okay. Um, so we've got episodes one through four. We follow several guest storylines at the Thai resort of the white Lotus after the opening scene reveals a floating corpse discovered by Belinda's son Zion. So this is our sort of, uh, should you want me to keep reading through the all the gambit? I think just it will go family by family like you did. Okay. So we've got Zion.

[00:14:40] We know he's a young college kid. He's taking his tests and he's coming out to join his mom. And he has that really funny prayer where he's like, he better protect my mom. You mother effort. That was so funny, but I did rewatch that today and I did screen cap it. And I do, like I said, I, for when we get to the dead pool at the end, I do have a, I think somebody, but the reason I get that is from a later scene. So we'll talk about that when we get there.

[00:15:09] Yeah. I mean, Mike White did a really good job, both seasons of really hiding who was going to die until the very end. Yeah. And, and the same thing this season, like I could see like 10 different people dying for like various reasons or no reason at all. Yeah. And that's the thing is it's not a, uh, one plus one morality equal, you know, right. You know, it's, it's not a simple math. He's not going to be so obtuse. Well, this was the bad man. So the bad man must die.

[00:15:37] Both deaths so far have been accidents. Right. Like I know Tanya was like. Involved. Supposed to be murdered. Right. But she wasn't, she slipped off a boat. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't, I don't wonder that the gunshots are not, I don't, I don't think that the person floating in the pool was killed necessarily by a gunshot. I agree with that.

[00:16:06] Stray round or intentional shot. Yep. I think it, uh, I think it's, it's overlaying something else that happened and whether that was an accident or intentional, we don't really know yet because he's laid down a couple of other clues, which we can talk to talk about later when we get into the Deadpool. Cause there's some going theories about what could have caused the death. So I don't know that we have much more to talk about with, uh, Zion necessarily. Yeah. Nothing yet.

[00:16:36] I think next episode is going to be his episode because he's coming tomorrow. And usually these episodes are like one day, one, uh, episode. Right. So next up is the Ratliff family, not Ratcliff family. And their, uh, family's under increasing pressure as Timothy. I can't do a park your posy, uh, accent as Timothy's $10 million financial something. Money laundering. We could say he said money laundering a few times.

[00:17:05] As this investigation is progressing, uh, which leads him to confiscate his family's phones and start stealing his wife's anxiety medication. And then of course we have, um, we, well, we can't really call it Chekhov's gun. Can we have to call it guy talks gotten. Did he steal the gun though? I think that's an open question. I'm pretty sure he did. Cause they, I think they're tricking us. I think they're tricking us.

[00:17:34] Well, I did. I haven't watched all of the next up scenes, but, but well, you know, it's a, it's a good question. I think even what I saw on the next episode, it's still ambiguous. I mean, they certainly have set us up to believe that he stole the gun. But when Mike White does that, I go, he didn't steal the gun. But then where did the gun go? That's a mystery. Yeah, it is a great question.

[00:18:03] We know that we have another guy at the hotel who's literally trying to kill someone. Right. So, but he's already gone to Bangkok. He is going to Bangkok. Well, I don't know if he left by then. I think he did. All right. I think he did. All right. Maybe, maybe I'm not remembering. Anyway, let's talk about the rat lifts. I love them. I have you, have you ever lived in the South, David? I feel like that's the one place you haven't lived. I have not lived in the South. Well, I did. And I've met this family. Okay. It's just the whole like, bless your heart thing.

[00:18:32] Like this like faux niceness that's actually super mean and rude. Mm-hmm. Absolutely is a thing. I lived in North Carolina and in Georgia. Okay. So, I have lived in this region that they're like playing in the soup of. Did you realize that Timothy is Draco Malfoy's dad in the Harry Potter movies? Well, I'm not a Harry Potter person, but I certainly know Jason Isaacs. So. Okay. Okay. Yeah. He's doing a great Texan, not Texan. He's doing a great North Carolina accent. Right. Yeah.

[00:19:03] I'm enjoying his accent work because I know that's probably hard. That's one of the harder accents to pull off when you're coming from an English accent. Right. So, next up we've got Rick and Chelsea. And Rick is pursuing the resort co-owner Jim Hollinger, who he believes is responsible for his father's murder. And he's sort of doing that at the expense of his relationship with Chelsea.

[00:19:30] And then he gets really high and releases a bunch of snakes that results in her hospitalization. But they don't seem to be much worse for the wear. So, fortunately, that didn't go as bad as it could have gone. This has been, I think, the best comic relief of most of the show. Like, Chelsea is just so funny to watch. She, out of nowhere. HBO thing. Like, when she started doing astrology, amazing. The whole, I almost died today. And he's like, no, you didn't.

[00:19:58] And it's like, oh, it's so good. It's so good. And just the way she talks to him, like, I'm young and fun and you're old and boring. LBH. Is that, well, he's not, we don't even know what he does. Is he going to end up in Thailand or not? He does, you know. Does a little bit of this and that. This and that, yeah. Yeah. I did love him and Greg talking together and just being like, this and that, yeah, this and that. Yeah. All right. You guys being very cagey about their past. Right.

[00:20:29] So then we have what some people are dubbing the toxic trio, longtime friends, Jacqueline, Kate, and Lori. They are experiencing a fracture in their relationship when Lori confronts the others about their behind the back criticism or for career problems. And of course, each of them have doubled up sort of on the other. And I think we're heading towards some very uncomfortable situations between the three friends.

[00:20:56] The best comment I've seen on this, I think I saw it on a TikTok or Reddit comment thread. They said, if you're not at the table, you're on the menu. That's this trio. And I have another audio that went viral on TikTok for a while that I'd like to play that is essentially this group. Okay. I love her, but she's kind of a problem. No. And I hope that she's okay. And I felt super bad, but I'm also like, everybody's complimenting you up the ass. We're sleeping on the floor for you.

[00:21:26] You know, it's just like this, like, I love her, but. But, blam, blam, blam, blam. Right. And you empty the magazine at her. Right. Exactly. And they all do that to each other. Yeah. Circular firing squad. Of course, then we have Belinda returning from season one who recognizes Greg, which is Tanya's widower from season two. And he's using the alias Gary while he is dating. Oh, I don't have his girlfriend's name.

[00:21:54] Um, uh, you'd have that off the top. Chloe. Thank you. Yeah. Uh, always dating Chloe, a Canadian model, Canadian model. French Canadian. Yes. She'd like you to remember that. She's from Quebec. Do not confuse. We have a lot of Canadians. They're my neighbors to the north. I, I, we, I'm going to be, Hey, I don't, I want to make sure I stay on the good side of those folks. Look, Nancy does a lot of work for us and she's Canadian. So we can't insult the Canadians right now, especially right now. We're not, we're not, we're not doing too well in our international relationship.

[00:22:24] So anyway, I think she's, uh, so she's there for a cross training experience where she's going to help their skills and she's going to take some stuff away and sort of reboot her, uh, wellness, uh, program activities. And then she gets sort of a bee in her bonnet about Greg, AKA Gary, and, uh, is going to sort of begins a soft investigation of what this guy's up to.

[00:22:52] I am very concerned that she's being watched. I think the minute that Greg Gary, we'll call him G man, the minute he recognizes her, he's like, well, fuck, I got to do something about this. Yeah. I know he's a guy who likes to tie up his loose ends. Right. Right. And I don't wonder if he doesn't already recognize her. So. Well, he does. Yeah, for sure. He's like, you know, she, she goes over and he's like, Hey, no, you got a twin, huh?

[00:23:20] Like she, you, you could tell she was calling him out. Right. So then lastly, we have, uh, the resort staff, including Pam, who's a hero and Valentine. And of course, guy talk and Lisa. And, uh, I think, uh, we have our, um, and Mook Mook. Yep. That's sorry. Lisa is the actor's real name. Uh, she's from black pink, which is my daughter's current obsession right now.

[00:23:48] We've moved on from the, the, the Taylor Swift squad. And we're now into the black pink squad. We've also entered the Roblox era. That's a whole thing. Oh boy. I've heard, I, I don't get involved with that. Yeah. I don't see that one. It's coming for you. It's coming for you. Well, who knows what it'll be when, when you, yeah. That's been going on a while. Fortnite big thing always do. Yeah. Yeah. Fortunately, we're not there. We're on on that. Anyway.

[00:24:15] Uh, so Mook and guy talk, Valentine, love Pam. Uh, we also have, uh, I got to jump down to the next section here. Dr. Amrita, who is the, uh, uh, meditation, uh, uh, doctor, I guess you could say Fabian, the manager, porn chai, the, uh, guest relations specialist who's working with, uh, Belinda.

[00:24:44] And then we'd have a couple of other notables. We've got Kay he Kwan as the voice of Kenny. I didn't realize that. Yeah. Timothy's a business partner. Uh, and Chuck, who is Timothy's lawyer, who is also voiced by Scott Galloway, who is a internet person these days, a fellow podcaster with probably big podcast. Actually, Scott and Kara and Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway have a big podcast. No, I didn't realize. That's fun. Yep. Well, now he's using his voice for other talents.

[00:25:14] Absolutely. So obviously with guy talk, uh, and Mook, uh, guy talk is getting a little bit distracted with his duties, which leads to a robbery. We have Valentin and his two Russian friends who know how to make fun. And, uh, we've got, um, we'll see if Fabian sings before the end of the season. We'll see. All right, David, why don't we take our break now? And then we'll come back and we'll talk more about the characters.

[00:25:55] And we're back. Do you want to talk about, you know, some of these themes that we have in here? Sure. Um, I guess I'm just kind of curious to you since we've, you just binged four episodes. I did. And then I've been watching over the weeks, but then did like a little bit of a speed watch before, uh, before dinner tonight. And I'm curious as which storyline or which characters are standing out for you the most.

[00:26:22] Um, I, I think the most interesting stuff is happening in the Ratliff house. Uh, I think the most interesting that to that for me is sort of the battle over Lachlan's soul that is happening. But, but you see, he's like teetering on the edge of toxic masculinity, but his sister is pulling him back, but his older brother is pulling him towards it. And you could see they're kind of in a war for him.

[00:26:51] And they signal that in episode one, they're like, oh, he's going to stay in my room. No, he's going to stay in my room. Um, and I, I think that's so interesting is like, these are two older siblings sort of vying for the, what they think is the right path for their brother. Uh, it's really interesting. I see the, all these subtle digs like, oh, well you got into Duke. You're going to go to Duke. Meanwhile, guess who's, guess where the sister goes? She goes to Chapel Hill. Are you aware of this rivalry? Vaguely.

[00:27:20] I mean, it's not important to me, so I haven't really paid attention, but the big, I mean, big NCAA rivals, I would guess. Well, it's not just a sport. Not just that. It's, um, the, in Raleigh-Durham, those are two big schools. Chapel Hill is a public university. Okay. It's a North Carolina State University. And then, uh, Duke is a private university and that's known for being very rich and very, you know, private, very, very private schoolie. Right. And, uh, so they're all like, you're going to Duke.

[00:27:49] She's sitting there like, I go to Chapel Hill. And, and, uh, I just think it was kind of a dig at her. Like, oh, you didn't get into Duke. You got into Duke, you go to Duke. Right. You know? And so that's why I think like, oh, that's so interesting. Isn't it? Like, like this family is clearly like looking down at her. She's clearly out of her fucking mind. Like, I'm just going to move to a monastery. She hasn't even put in an application. Mm-hmm.

[00:28:15] Did you notice that there were three other, uh, Western students standing in the courtyard when she, after she made the appointment to see the monk? Oh, I didn't notice that. Yeah. And so, so it's like they, they're opening the pathway for this sort of like one year study abroad is sort of like, you know, live and study here kind of thing. Yeah.

[00:28:36] Uh, and it's, I think the Piper storyline is interesting because of the dig that her mother, you know, hits her with, which is you're just as judgmental as any of us. But she's right, right? Like we do sometimes in circles where we are trying to be sensitive with good intentions, we do get hull monetary. Mm-hmm.

[00:29:03] And that, that is a, a known and I think a problem that we're growing more aware of recently. And I think that's a good thing because I think no matter what your political leanings or moral leanings are, like nobody wants to sit next to you if everything they say is going to be scrutinized to the utmost degree. Uh, and that doesn't mean we can't be better and we can't improve what we say, but there, there is this level of like, it's not just that you have to speak with good intentions

[00:29:32] and use language that is inoffensive. You have to use the right phrasing that I, that I think that, that you should be using. And, and I do think that becomes a bit of judgmental, uh, judgmentalism. I think it, it keeps people from agreeing with you at a certain point. Uh, and so, yeah, I, I think they are just coming from two different sides of a judgmental spectrum. And she is very judgmental about her family and wanting to get away from her family,

[00:30:01] you know, right or wrong, whatever your, whatever her motivations are. She is very held in reserve. One of the reasons why she's so reserved is because she's just judging. Well, and I, by the way, I say all this as someone who was that way when I was her age, like I'm speaking about myself here. Right. And so I'm not, I'm not coming for anybody. This is kind of the phase that everybody goes through of like, I know better than everyone I've ever met because I've done two years of college.

[00:30:28] And when you have Saxon as this, uh, extreme example, who's, you know, smacking you over your head, over your head with your book. Right. And doing that really bully stuff. Absolutely. You're going to be judgmental and sort of be disgusted. But then you got to look at Victoria, the mom who's like, Oh, Saxton. Oh, isn't that so funny? She enables the behavior. 100%. Absolutely.

[00:30:56] And encourages that because she gives him the big laugh and like she reacts to him more positively than anybody else in the family. Absolutely. Other than maybe Timothy. Even Timothy. I think she doesn't act as, as. No, no. She's just sort of married to him. Yeah. Sort of like, oh, whatever. Yeah. You keep me in, you keep me well stocked with my medications and in a lifestyle that I've come, I've come very much to expect. As long as that's fine, you know, that keeps coming. We're married. We're fine. Yeah. It's no problem.

[00:31:24] So I, so I just want to say like both Saxon and Piper sure come from different judgmental and different, like different points of view that both can have problems. But I just want to make clear Saxon's behavior is much more damaging to other people. Right. Piper's would be. Piper, Piper might be annoying at times, but that's not actively hurting other people. Whereas Saxon is like, he's, we haven't seen it yet, but we've seen it.

[00:31:53] We've seen him definitely in proximity to and willing to hurt other people. Right. He's saddling up to, well, maybe they're not married, maybe Chloe and Greg aren't married, but he, he knows that she's with him. Yep. And so he's actively pursuing that, you know, he is. Forcing those terrible protein shakes on his brother. Absolutely. Like that's a moral outrage and bullying his little brother and bullying his sister.

[00:32:24] And yeah, he's just gross all around. I have to say though, that Patrick Schwarzenegger, the actor is doing such. Is he Arnold's son? I don't, you know, I haven't looked up the fact. I was just like, Oh wait, you got to Google that while I talk. That I just hope that he is an actor. Does he get stuck with this role? I hope he's able, like, what was the actor who played Joffrey on, and gave him a role? It's like, poor guy, you know, or, or.

[00:32:53] This is Arnold Schwarzenegger's son, by the way. Amazing. That's so funny. Nepo baby extraordinaire. Yeah. Now he's doing well. He's doing well. He's, he's fit too. He's got a, he's got a nice bod. I appreciated, I don't know if you saw this interview with Jack Quaid from the boys. He came out and he's like, yeah, I'm a Nepo baby. I had advantages getting into this industry. Now I try to earn them. You know, like, I was like, I like that, you know, like, don't, you don't have to get rid of your advantages. Just acknowledge them. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And work hard.

[00:33:22] Like everybody, you know, like, yeah, work hard for sure. So I think it's interesting too, that Piper, who is quietly judgmental and is very privileged and comes from a very, you know, she can't help that. Right. She comes from that world and that is the, you know, the context in the track, but she's sensing that there's something else. She even tells Lachlan, don't you feel it when you pray?

[00:33:51] Don't you feel the presence? I feel one. I think it's real. Right. And so she's here trying to break out of her situation. Oh, what was the son in the season one? Yeah. The teenager. I know. Yeah. Who was stuck in his video games all the time. And then once he starts to get out and to explore the world and something real, he suddenly comes alive.

[00:34:11] So, you know, Piper's trying to reach for something different and granted it's, I don't want to say, it's not naive or what is it? She's idolizing this Buddhist philosophy and she's not appropriating it in the sense of, but she's fetishizing it somewhat, I think. No, she is. She is.

[00:34:38] Look, I think even Buddhists would tell you, you know, anyone can practice. Right. Anyone could do this. Like, I don't think anyone's gatekeeping Buddhism. No, no. I think most religions would be like, hey, yeah, like, check us out. Yeah. Come be part of us. Yeah. I mean, I don't think it's a very proselytizing religion. I know that there's, I'm generalizing because Buddhism has a million sects. Yeah. And I don't want to generalize too much, but most of the Buddhists I've met have just been like, yeah, I'm Buddhist.

[00:35:07] You know, like, just not, it's not like meeting an evangelical person. I will say one of the funniest Buddhist encounters that I had was my wife and I were on our honeymoon. We went to Sri Lanka and we were in, we went to the Maldives and we went to Sri Lanka. And we were touring up in the central highlands of Sri Lanka. We were going to different monasteries and caves and all this kind of stuff.

[00:35:31] And there was this Buddhist monk who was a tourist, right? You know, you go around, you see stuff, you go see different things. And she was dressed in these dark brown robes and her head was shaved. And she was taking a selfie in front of one of these Buddhist statues. And I was like, that's interesting because I didn't, you know, I thought this was all about giving up ego, giving up sense of self. And like what more self-referential thing is there to do to take a selfie?

[00:36:01] So I thought, so that just goes to show you that like what I think of Buddhism is not somebody who practices or the, you know, thousands of years old traditions in different countries, different cultures. As with any religion, I think there's just many ways to be that religion.

[00:36:21] Anyway, you have this theme here, karma and consequence speaking of Buddhism and, you know, this cycle of justice, right? With Greg, you bring it up here. Right, right. Will he finally get the comeuppance? Yeah, and as he's spiraling down into his lorazepam-fueled nightmare. Oh, Greg, I was talking about. Oh, you're talking about Greg. Okay, sorry.

[00:36:49] I thought you were talking about Timothy with his embezzlement. That's the most straightforward story of anything, right? He's this big high-finance guy. He did a little side deal that was for a lousy $10 million. Yeah, I only got $10 million out of it. That was a great line. That was a great. That tells you, it's a perfect line, too, because it tells you the scale at which he's working. Right. Yeah, he's definitely like, at least like half a bill. Right.

[00:37:18] So, yeah, so we'll see. So that's a pretty straightforward thing. We just have to see where that pushes the rest of the family. Yeah, it's, I saw somebody theorize that like, his wife already has gotten all the money, has like set up a secret account with a bunch of money. He's been squirreling away money for years. And he's just like, I don't worry about it. Right. Um, I think he's going to be thrilled at his daughter's suggestion that they stay in Thailand. Mm, interesting.

[00:37:46] Well, you know, there's a whole class of people there that could use his skills. Yeah. You would have no problem finding employment. And they would certainly enjoy a particular lifestyle. Yeah. I, um, I did look up if Thailand does extradition. They do do extradition. Okay. Okay. So, I don't, I don't know if Thailand would be the best place to go, but it's, it's, you know, maybe there's places to hide.

[00:38:11] Well, or you just sort of know the right people and, you know, you have the right conversations with the right people and with the right kind of paperwork. Yeah. But the, the minute I heard the FBI had a warrant as his office, I was like, oh, he's done. Like, this is not just, he's not getting away with us. And he's doing this whole head in the sand thing, right? Back phone in the bag, complete, uh, avoidance. And that is not going to work out very well. Well, I think he did that at first. He didn't want to give his phone away. Right.

[00:38:40] It was, he was like a desperate thing to make his son not find out about what was happening. Yeah, exactly. And then that was an unintended consequence. And he was like, you know what? I'm just going to live with it. I'm just going to get really fucked up. I'm going to try to forget about this. And honestly, though, if you have, if, if you're that, that fuck and you have one last week of like living a rich lifestyle. Yeah. Yeah. I get it. I get it. Enjoy it. Uh, do you know anything about lorazepin? I don't have any.

[00:39:10] Uh, I believe it's a Benzo. Yeah. I believe so as well. I don't know how addictive it is. I certainly. Those are very addictive. Sure. You need to, you need to get like a, uh, like if you get a prescription like that, it has like a warning on it. Um, it's yeah. Yeah. I certainly could guess that you should not be taking that much lorazepin and drinking that much alcohol at the same time. I could, I can always promise you. No, they give you big warnings about them. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it is a Benzo by the way. Okay.

[00:39:37] Um, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's one of those emergency meds, right? Like they are not, they are not for like daily use generally. They are for like, I am having a panic attack right now. Mm-hmm. And I need to calm down right now. So it acts fast. It really like puts you to sleep basically. Okay. Uh, and he's, he's downing them in like pairs. He's doing like two at a time drop. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:40:01] And it's really, it's really impulsive behavior because his wife even says, Victoria even says, hey, who's taking my lorazepin? Like I had a full prescription and then now he's taking the whole bottle. Like. Yeah. He doesn't give a fuck anymore. Like, no, he's gone. That would be, that's going to be the last thing he gets in trouble for this week. So he's like, who cares? Who cares? Now we, we do have to talk about Lachlan really quick though, because, uh, before we switch to, to Greg and. The magician.

[00:40:29] The magician who's, who's thrown, who's shown his skills, but very early on they started coding him gay. What? You didn't pick up on that? No. In his hotel room with his brother, he's not objectifying his brother, but he's objectifying his brother's body. Oh. And he's watching him when he goes to the bathroom.

[00:40:57] He, when he wakes up in the morning, he sees Saxons naked behind and he sort of looks at it sort of longingly. So to me, that was like absolutely coding him that he's struggling with his, you know, he himself is questioning where am I? Where's my sexuality? Interesting. Yeah. I didn't pick up on that, but just talk to Alicia on our wheel of time podcast. And, um, I, I'm not great at picking up on that kind of thing. Okay. You don't have gaydar.

[00:41:26] See, we had gaydar back in, in the, in my day because we had to, right. You know, people needed to, I don't know. It was just the way it worked and now, now it doesn't matter. So now gaydar doesn't work. So it was a thing. All right. I've not, I've not, my mind is not tuned. I guess. So anyway, I'm curious to see where that goes. And I think that's also part of the tug of war because sure, Saxon may be, no, sorry.

[00:41:53] Lachlan may be a little bit shy as just a person in general, but you know, even the, the posture clinic specialist says, you know, well, you're guarding yourself. I'd be guarded too, if I were in that family. So like that setting aside is, would homosexuality be something that this family could deal with? Saxon is constantly pushing him to, you know, get, he's got to get laid and, you know, he's got to go have sexual, you know, he's got to go conquer, you know, Thailand sexually. Yeah. Saxon is out of a P90X video.

[00:42:25] You know, I, I also think that this is part of the conversation that they're starting on like siblings. Siblings, especially male siblings, like sexualizing other siblings. Like it's, it's gross. Um, look at, look at the way that Saxon talks about Piper. Right. It's like, oh, well, she's hot. Why hasn't she had sex yet? Like, that's none of your fucking business. That's the grossest fucking things you could have said.

[00:42:49] And he, he has, and his brother is like innocent and doesn't even realize how gross it is. He's like, well, my older brother who I'm supposed to look up to is saying it. So it must be okay to say. And again, this is the way I just, we just had somebody on, I believe their name was Erica wrote in and asked me for feminist or asked us for feminist book recommendations. And I just actually recommended her a book called, um, uh, oh my God. Now I have to find it.

[00:43:18] I have to find it, David, before I can't, I can't say it. It's called deep secrets, boys, friendships, and the crisis of connection. You pulled that out so that you don't have to edit out your pause. You did a good, you did a good job getting it. Exactly. Look, I, I am a fucking pro at avoiding edits now. Um, so deep secrets, boys, friendships, and the crisis of connection. This is about how young men and young boys are sort of initiated into patriarchal norms. It's really interesting.

[00:43:47] It talks about like the severing of connection as boys get older. It's a fascinating book. And I think we're seeing this in real time with Lachlan. Absolutely. We are. And we, and we see Victoria encouraging her brother, her eldest son's behavior. Yep. And she's grown up in that, right? She's grown up in that male dominated, you know, sort of patriarchal Southern society. Right. Have you gotten to the part in the Dune books with the fish speakers? Yeah, that's in God of Burr.

[00:44:17] Okay. Yeah. And the whole idea of, uh, how a, a occupy, or, you know, a military or police forces turn against their populations, uh, ultimately through just the fact that there is this separation and there is this, uh, uh, culture of kill the enemy kind of stuff or control your enemy or put people in handcuffs and whatnot. So I think it's something that Herbert does. It's an interesting question that he opens up.

[00:44:46] I don't know that he ever successfully walks through the entirety of it, but you know, those later books got weird, even though they're great. I have to be honest. I have stopped reading heretics of Dune. I, uh, I got about a quarter through it and I said, I just need a break. I just can't do it right now. Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. Cause it's dense material. It's not. I will say chapter house, chapter house is a burner as a page turner. Okay, good. It gets more into the back into sort of space battle, lasery, you know, pew pew stuff. And I don't even need that.

[00:45:15] I love the philosophical stuff. I just feel like I'm not getting that as much in heretics. Sure. I'm getting a lot of like, this is what's happening right now. It's like, it's like reciting facts so far. You know, he's not a Dune podcast. This is not a Dune podcast. Moving on. I think that's it for the rat lifts. Anything else that you, any observations that you have? I, I, I don't think so. I think those are my main ones. I mean, Timothy's totally fucked, but, uh, his lawyer is going to get a nice fee out of it.

[00:45:42] And then, uh, he's probably gonna go to prison if he goes back to the U S yeah. If at all. Yeah. I, I could very well see him staying in Thailand. Interesting. That's a very realistic point for him. I hadn't thought about that. Possibility, but I think that. Well, he also met people who know how to hide money on Greg's boat. There's a whole class of those guys, right? Yeah. He would fit right in. Yeah. Cigar smoking, you know, whiskey, bourbon drinking. Yeah. I think he's going to buy Greg's house on them on the hill.

[00:46:12] Dude, that's a dope boat though. That giant Cataran with a zooming pool and stuff. Like that's pretty sweet boat. And we know Greg loves his boats. He loves to use them for all kinds of activities. We know boats aren't necessarily great for the lifespans of some of our characters, but our floater was in a garden pool, not on the, out in the ocean. So. Yeah. Well, I don't think Chloe's in any danger. She doesn't have assets for him. She's the one taking the assets, right? Right. Right. Where should we go from here?

[00:46:42] You want to talk about Jacqueline and Kate and Lori? Okay. The, the trio. I think these are fascinating. They are such fun. You having fun with these characters? I am having so much fun. This is the one I'm having the most difficulty with. Really? Uh, if you're, what did you say? What is it? If you're on the menu, if you're not on. If you're not at the table, you're on the menu. Yeah. That, that whole dynamic is just making me cringe. I love it so much. Yes. I've met these people. And so have you. We've all met these people, right?

[00:47:11] They're, they're such frenemies. You know, the, I, I love her, but she's kind of a problem. And, uh, I, I just absolutely live for this kind of cringe. You know, we, we're not a political podcast, but the Trump scene, my God, was that like so uncomfortable, but I've like had this conversation and I, I just couldn't believe how accurate it was. And that's why I mean like Mike White is touching something in the human consciousness here.

[00:47:41] And, uh, I feel like that was terrible phrasing, but anyway. That was an awkward phrase, but you know, you will go with it. All right. But, but do you know that they filmed that like two years ago and they didn't realize it was going to be relevant again? Right. That's right. They did that. They said that in an interview. So it hit, it hits a little bit differently right now, doesn't it? Yeah, it does. It does. Right now. Yeah. And.

[00:48:07] But I, I felt for, um, Lori, the first time that Kate and Jacqueline were talking, you know, and she's up in the hotel room that's up above them and she comes down when she get her purse or whatever. Yeah. And I was just cringing going, oh, she's going to stumble in on them and hear them talking because that's what happens in these kinds of shows. And I was like, no, no, please.

[00:48:31] Because of all the, the three of them, to me, she's a little bit the most relatable in the sense that, uh, you know, there's, um, you know, maybe, well, maybe I'm, I'm responding to the single mother trope, you know, recently divorced, trying to have a, uh, uh, professional career and, and, you know, raise a, raise a child. Mm-hmm. That's hard. Like I kinda, I kinda sympathize with people who are, who are in, in any kind of situation like that. Yeah.

[00:49:01] Where they're trying to be a parent in a modern context, um, in doing it in, in a really difficult way and, and facing career choices. And so, you know, she's here to like, let, you know, let her higher down a little bit, maybe not necessarily have an energy healing fling with a Russian mobster, but I don't know. She's the most, um, I connect with her more than the other two. I, you know, I thought so at first too.

[00:49:30] And now I think that they all are just, but they're all equally the same. Crabby. Like, look, yeah, she was the first one to get made fun of. And so you feel badly for her at first, but then she does the exact same thing given the first opportunity. Absolutely. She, she's like Jacqueline, she's obsessed. She's addicted to her husband. Like, who is totally cheating on her. Right. Yeah. I mean, totally, uh, taking, taking the opportunity to, and to, uh, it's one thing not to call your

[00:49:57] spouse back, but at least text them. Hey, on set, busy or whatever, like respond, you know, I was away from my wife for like less than 24 hours in, in the last week. And I had to travel for work. I called her like three times. It's just like, if you like your partner. Yeah. You, you, and we're not newly married. We've been together 10 years. Right. Right. Uh, yeah, I don't get it.

[00:50:26] I don't get why people put up with this kind of stuff. But then they put Katie in a kind of an okay light, at least that one time when she has the interaction with Victoria and says, Oh, we were at the baby shower together, you know, years ago. And Victoria is kind of like, Oh, whatever. Go away. Yeah. That was a little awkward. So you kind of feel with her, she's just trying to be genuine and, you know, social, you know, she's a socialite. So she's being social, social. And then with Jacqueline, if her husband's cheating on her, you kind of feel bad for her in that regard.

[00:50:55] But then she really pulls a face when they're at the, uh, the other hotel. I did think that was pretty hilarious that he sent, he sent her to an old person hotel. Right. Right. Well, one that, that is obviously more of a budget friendly establishment. Oh, I don't think it was budget. Well, it's budget friendly, but it's, but it's, it's specifically geared towards geriatric guests. Well, it's because of what they can afford.

[00:51:25] Yeah. Yeah. And Thailand is to, I think Australia as the Caribbean is to the East coast of the United States. Yeah. It's Hawaii to the West coast. Fair enough. Or, or at least, uh, parts of Mexico as well. Right. You just, that's the easy place you go to. It's exotic. It's inexpensive. Uh, it's, you can have this sort of, uh, um, when I think it's a whole other interesting, um, theme is this sort of this cross cultural

[00:51:53] thing where you go somewhere and lock or, uh, Saxon even says this, you know, you go somewhere else where you don't have the social, the social pressures, the social norms. You're outside of your context. And so you can act differently. Right. And so a lot of people go to Southeast Asia, uh, with that sort of mindset. Yeah. Speaking of the, uh, you know, the cultural exchange, the resort staff are, are you, I know I'm jumping around your outline.

[00:52:19] So we can, but, uh, my outlines, can I, no, it's, it's your outline. You own any mistakes in this. Um, do I have any, you know, insurance? So, so guy talk, can I just say, there's this, there's another trend on the internet where they do like, here's POV. Your guy best friend is about to ruin your friendship. He's about to confess his love for you. Cringe factor.

[00:52:49] Oh, he's been there. I raised my hand. I was like, oh man, I feel for this guy. I fell for Mook. Mook can't get away from this guy. But Mook is falling for him now. I think, I think she's starting to. Yeah. Uh, but at first she was not interested. No, she was totally friend. She totally thought he was a genuine, lovely guy and just was happy to be friendzoning him. Right. Right. And, uh, and it's not friendzoning him. She's just being his friend, you know, like, um. Sure. Fair enough. That, that friend zone.

[00:53:19] I think it's something that's been co-opted. Right. That's been co-opted by like the male rights movement that I don't. Associate with. Fair enough. So I, I'm just gonna, just gonna call that out there. Like. I think it was when I was young, uh, in my like 20s or whatever. In 30, you know, that was a thing. Yeah. People said that all the time when I was in high school. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I get, I get that. Um, I, I think I'm trying to move past that because it's been co-opted to such a toxic. Thing. Right. It's you're doing something to me.

[00:53:49] Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. She's not doing anything. She's just like, I'm not interested. Yeah. I'm not interested. That's that. And so we can, and why can't you be friends? Yeah. Why can't you be friends with somebody of the opposite sex and just have a regular friendship where oftentimes men will be like, no, I want, I want something else out of this. We as a society devalue non-sexual and non-romantic intimacy. Bro, watch all of the old seventies television shows.

[00:54:17] That was where they all went to was male conquest of female friends inside of the sitcom model. You got to hook up ultimately for look at friends. Everybody got married to everybody else on that stupid show, right? Yeah. How am I? Your mother did the same thing. Everybody does that. Uh, that was the model. That was a model. Seinfeld, you know, everything. Uh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, what was the one, uh, Oh, I forget now with Bruce Willis and, uh, what's her name? Oh, anyway, it doesn't matter.

[00:54:46] I'm just going into nostalgia mode now. So let's, we can move on. You really got to watch, um, Kevin can F himself. It's a deconstruction of that entire genre. You were saying, and it's a, it flips the point of view back and forth and it gets on when, when you look back on it the other way, it gets into some sort of like quasi horror almost. Well, you don't have repeated scenes. It's always moving forward, but like, so she'll be with her toxic husband and, and it's supposed to be like a sitcom where it's just like the dumb husband. Uh, right.

[00:55:15] And it's a multi-camera brightly lit. And then it, it, you'll, she'll leave the room and she'll be upset about it. And it's a multi-camera drama. Sorry. It's a single camera drama. Uh, and it's, you know, closeups and dim lighting and all that. And even sometimes they'll change the costuming a little bit. So like, she'll be more injured in the drama than she was in the comedy. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. I think it's, it's a fascinating show and it's only two seasons. Okay. Okay. All right.

[00:55:43] I had it up on my board for a while and it came down, uh, cause you know, we got crazy. So I'll have to see if I put it up there again. It's so good. I think it really deconstructs that whole genre. Very cool. Um, white Lotus, white Lotus. We've, we've had two different, uh, people come for the salad bar routine, you know, experience, right? A little bit of this, a little bit of that. That's right. I don't have a lot to say about the other stuff yet. Like Fabian's just annoying. Pam is funny. Like she's great comic relief.

[00:56:12] Do you want your, do you want your phone in the bag? Hopefully you don't need that again. Um, why am I doing Southern accent for her? I don't know. She's definitely not Southern. She's Australian. Yeah. Um, and God help me if I mistake her for a, a, a, a, a, a Kiwi because do not mix those two accents up. They don't like it. They don't like it. The Kiwis don't like it. The Aussies are like, well, whatever. Porn Chai is probably going to have a fling with Belinda. I'm just at that point. What's that name? Porn Chai.

[00:56:42] I love that name. It's so good. When I was like getting the names for everybody, I was like Porn Chai, right? Porn tea, right? You know, he's, he's a hot cup of tea. He sure is. When he takes his robe off and Belinda's like, Ooh, girl. Yep. Yep. She's like, she's liking it. Where do you want me? On me? Oh no, no, no. I mean, that was so funny. And it's really interesting that like something that's really striking me in the last couple

[00:57:09] episodes, especially is like the salesmanship of spirituality and like they come over to breakfast all day and they're like selling treatments to these people. Right. They're selling them energy. You know, energy sessions and yoga and posture correction sessions. Right. And the whole wellness industry and that you can buy your way to wellness. Right. And then Dr. Amrita actually feels like really genuine with Rick.

[00:57:39] There's, there's this line that. Put a stick a pin in that, but go with your line. But let's, let's come back to the Dr. Amrita and Rick thing. Okay. There's this line that I, that I want to quote from Bo Burnham's special inside where he's doing, he has a sock puppet on his hand and, and he's the sock puppet in him are supposed to be teaching you how the world works. Sock puppet is like a leftist radical.

[00:58:10] And, uh, he says, uh, you know, I'm, the socko is a sock puppet. He goes, I'm sorry, socko. What can I do better? And he goes, why do you rich fucking white people insist on seeing every sociopolitical conflict through the myopic lens of your own self actualization? And I feel like that's the show. Right. Like it's not about, am I making the world a better place?

[00:58:37] It's like, how do I get to my level of greatness through your spirituality?

[00:59:10] Right. Because it's ends up, she's using some, uh, beauty products that have a toxic effect on her. Um, and, uh, sorry, minor spoilers for, for that. Uh, and, uh, just the, the idea that we can buy our way to wellness. I'm thinking of goop and, you know, all of these other sort of very high profile things

[00:59:34] where, uh, if we only do this workout, if we only use this product, if we only remember detoxing, everybody was detoxing their liver. Don't buy the jade egg. Don't do it. Your body already does, has a very efficient detoxing process. Like why are you drinking juice? You don't need to detox your liver. This is again, I, I've plugged this multiple times, but the podcast maintenance phase is like the best podcast I have found to like debunk health bullshit.

[01:00:03] It's not, they don't ever prescribe anything. And I appreciate that. They just say like, here's what the research is actually saying about this and why these claims that it will solve everything are fucking bullshit. And I think that's a great function for a podcast. So I've been off Instagram. I kind of broke my Instagram addiction and, uh, I've gone back a couple of times just go and I'm like, Ooh God, this is terrible stuff. But I have a whole part of my algorithm, which is the medical debunkers. Okay.

[01:00:31] Who show up in my feed, who then do, who debunk all of the other, you know, crazy stuff. So not only do we have a rise of wellness influencers, we have a rise of counter. Yes. It's like, Oh my God, what is this world? I don't know anything about Bo Burnham or this Saco thing, but I'm definitely going to check it out. You can just watch that, that song, but honestly, I would recommend the whole special to you. Sounds good. I like it. Where were we? We got, we got lost in the salad bar here.

[01:01:00] You got to do it. Medical wellness and treatment. Yeah. And just the idea that you can, you can buy your way to, to this, which is what the rat lifts. Timothy's like, Pam, I'm going to take care of you. Just F off. I'm going to go work out. You can run these guys ragged, but I'm going to go do my thing. Leave it at that. Yeah. What she goes, I have nothing for you because you want to go to the gym. You're doing great, Pam. You're killing it. That was great. That was great.

[01:01:31] Should we, well, we kind of, we were, we were talking a little bit about the toxic tree. I mean, they're there to partake in that sort of wellness culture and wellness routines doing their yoga and energy healing. Yeah. I feel like we've milked that plot line. Can we segue slightly to Valentin? Sure. Sure. Because Valentin and his friends are totally the, the, the, the jewelry robbers. Oh, really? A hundred percent. Hmm. Yeah.

[01:01:59] So Valentin is at the gate and stops to talk to Guy Talk and Guy Talk opens the gate. And then, so Valentin's using his charm to like occupy him. And then the car speeds in. Hmm. Hmm. Then the guy, it's really hard to see, but when they're escaping, one guy gets out of the driver's seat because it's on the other side. And he, he could be bald, which is the, the one guy with the big sort of, you know, the big sort of bigger, taller, balder guy. Mm-hmm.

[01:02:28] But then the snake guy, right? Who has the snake tattoo. Mm-hmm. What does he do? He grabs this piece of snake jewelry that Chelsea was looking at intentionally. Mm-hmm. Like they show us taking it. So I'm pretty sure that, and, and, and, and I think this is one of the free dominant theories that's out on the internet too right now is like that these, these are the robbers. Yeah. All right. All right. I see it now.

[01:02:58] I didn't pay attention to that probably because I had to watch on a phone screen for a lot of this. Right. And you're trying to, yeah, get it through. So, but yeah, I, I, I, I didn't pick up on it. Then I heard another podcast mention that and I was like, huh? And I went and I, you know, I was like, I went, rewatched the scenes and, you know, got into it a little bit more. And it's like, yeah, I, I'm pretty sure that that's. I like it. Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I'm going to be suspicious of him the entire time now. Yeah. Very.

[01:03:26] So they are, they know how to make fun. Those guys. You want to talk about Rick and Chelsea a bit? I think for me of our three guest storylines, the Rick and Chelsea are the most interesting. Largely because Chelsea is out of nowhere. Yeah. Who is this actor? What has she done before?

[01:03:52] What she is just so sort of her character is just so hard on sleeve and just so on. Honest and kind of this bent on new character. What is she doing with Rick? I have so many questions. Can I, can I just say her, her astrology stuff made me crack up because I had a friend when I lived in a very new agey city, let's say.

[01:04:21] And I had a friend there who, every time she would do something very annoying or problematic, she would go, sorry, I'm an Aries. And when she goes, I'm an Aries, I need everything to be on my sleeve. I was like, oh my God. So good. I just, I just saw my friend there. I wonder how much Mike White is into any of this sort of self-help psychology, astrology, tarot, any of that kind of stuff.

[01:04:49] Because we had a tarot card reader in the last episode, in the last season. Yeah. Did we have any divination stuff in season one? Trying to remember. I don't know. I don't remember any, but I, it's been a while since I watched season one. Yeah, it's been a minute. So, and oh, you know what? God. I just watched the Frank and Bill episode of The Last of Us the other day. I'm just going to, you know, doing my rewatch to get started.

[01:05:18] That is Armand. Yeah. Frank is. We talked about this during the season. Go into our podcast. It's just coming back to me. It's just coming back to me now. You'll hear yourself talking about it if you go back to our podcast. I did listen to the T-Lew episode one. I was like, I was kind of cringing, but then it got okay. We did okay. We did okay. We're always improving. We are. But I think we have good conversations all the time.

[01:05:42] I said to my wife, I said to Maya before we got on, I was like, I like podcasting with David because I have like four edits because he and I know and we're finishing up thoughts so well. When it's just the two of us, it's just so easy to just go for hours. Exactly. So, Rick, revenge tour. Yeah, it's interesting, right? I love the Inigo Montoya reference. I was wondering if you picked up on that. Is this a, you killed my father?

[01:06:11] David, I know the Princess Bride so well. I've been Wesley with Maya as Buttercup like two times. Speaking of the two sets in Pataco, when that line popped, I was like, oh. Oh, you know, mark it for John. I've been in this couple costume twice now. Nice. Yeah. Yeah. And it's just a cute little thing and it's a little wink and a nod. It's absolutely lovely. Yeah, they moved right past it, right? Which is good. Right. Yeah, no, that's all it needed was like, oh, that is like this, isn't it? Yep.

[01:06:43] Yeah, so what's up with Rick is, and I think it's interesting that they pair Rick with Dr. Amrita. Right. Because he's saying, this guy wronged me from day one, right? Like, he's taking it so personally. It's like he never knew his dad, but he's acting as wounded. He's been carrying this wound in his mind for so long.

[01:07:09] And Dr. Amrita is like, well, you know, like, let go of your past and let go of some of your expectations and like free yourself a little bit. Yeah. And I think that that's an interesting thing because she says to him, I mean, how many patients has she seen? How many people has she, you know, guided through meditation? And I don't think she's doing a valentine where he's saying, oh, your numbers are really good. You know, where she's saying, you know, you really moved me. I think she's being very honest about that. I think she is moved by Rick. I agree.

[01:07:37] At first, I thought she was just looking for a buck. And I was like, she actually, I think, is really into this. Yeah. I think she's honest. You know, I was just thinking with Rick, this idea of this like revenge tour. There's, and I recommended this book to Erica too, who asked for feminist book recommendations. Why does patriarchy persist? And this is a really interesting book where the authors talk about.

[01:08:07] So patriarchy persists as a quote. Patriarchy persists in part because it forces a betrayal of love and then renders the loss irreparable. Wait, say that again. And patriarchy persists in part because it forces a betrayal of love and then renders the loss irreparable. Okay. So it cuts off the love and then you're just screwed. You can't ever get it back. You're done. Because you're stuck in these patterns. There are different scripts that men and women get. Women are often given the script of the caretaker. Sure.

[01:08:35] And men are given the script of the angry, vengeful person. Right. Got to go out and shop wood. Damn it. Brr. Right. And so he's so obsessed with vengeance and his anger at this man that he can't enjoy a beautiful week with his beautiful girlfriend. And that he wants to. That is. I think she really loves him. I don't think this is just like a sugar baby situation. I think she's really into him.

[01:09:05] I agree. And I think he has some. He has some connection to her as well. Yeah. Yeah. And it, but it's so subsumed by. But how can they be soulmates? Their signs are incompatible. That's right. But he's so, he's so taken with his revenge tour. Right. Right. He can't, he can't be present to that. Right. Right. And yeah, I, I just, it's, it's, it's cutting him off from relationship. I, you know, I, I asked, I, I took a course with Carol Gilligan. I've talked about this.

[01:09:35] Right. And somebody asked her like, what's, what's the cure for patriarchy? Then she says relationship is. And he's, he's not allowing relationship to happen. Right. Right. And Dr. Amrita is trying to form relationship with him. Not romantic, obviously, but a relationship with him. Right. Right. In which he's really connecting. Yeah. And he's fighting it so hard because he doesn't want it. It is so much easier to feel anger than grief.

[01:10:03] We fall back on, as men, especially we fall back on anger when we want, when we need to feel grief all the time. And it prevents us from healing. We, so this bridges into the severance world, the episode seven of severance. And I had a really great conversation with Nicole, who's a psychologist and Marilyn, who is, I don't know if Marilyn will listen to this or not, but on, on camera, her, her turtle neck, whatever sweater she was wearing.

[01:10:33] And then whatever shirt she had underneath it looked like she had a clerical collar. Like she was wearing. Oh, she's, she's real preachy to you. She was, but she was so spiritual and just talking about all grief. But we, we had this great conversation about grief and psychology and, and ego death. And, uh, that's a really interesting comment. I never really thought about that, that the script that we have as men is anger over grief because grief is vulnerable. Grief is, um,

[01:11:01] Anger is a shield and it helps you in the short term, but it hurts you in the long term. And look at Rick carrying this anger and how it just dominates everything that he does. So how does he get out of it? Does he survive this? Does, is, does, is he able to figure out how to put his shield down? And can Chelsea get inside there? She challenges him on the boat. Like you got to get over this, right? You got to let me in. Right.

[01:11:29] So I think we're still like we did last season, you know, Mike White opens up a little bit and we sort of move into a couple of different spaces and we leave the white Lotus. And so I feel like we're moving towards Bangkok and that Bangkok has to be a place that we go to and that we have a, Yeah. At least for an episode, right? Yeah. For this conversation with Jim Hollinger. We went to, uh, we went on a field trip last season. Yeah. We went on a couple.

[01:11:58] With Aubrey Plaza's character. She, you know, she went and hung out to the villa. Yeah. Uh, so I think, I think that very well could happen. I don't think, actually, I don't even think we'll spend a full episode there. I think it'll be a section of it. Okay. Right. Uh, what else do we have? We have, uh, I mean, is there anything really to say about Belinda and Greg? Um, just that she recognizes them and that she's gonna, I think she's gonna obsess over this a little bit. Yeah, I think she's not gonna be able to let this go. Yeah.

[01:12:28] And, uh, obviously we have the boat, which is, uh, you know, an echo to season two with Tanya. And of course, Greg has the boat now, so that's, that's a funny, interesting thing. Mm-hmm. All right, David, let's take a quick break and then we'll go into some themes.

[01:12:57] And we're back. What themes do you have for me today, David? We have, I think, at least four easily identifiable major themes and maybe like four visual symbolic themes. You know, some of the imagery that's being used, uh, and, and, and how those connect to some, some themes. So we can just kind of run through them a little bit quickly. There's certainly something on identity and deception, right?

[01:13:24] Like we've got all these facades, people are hiding their true selves. Greg is using an alias. Um, the, the trio are, are all masking with this like overt friendliness. Like, oh my God, you're so beautiful. And I haven't seen you in so long. Right. Um, Timothy's projecting, you know, he uses that big, you know, alpha male stuff to, um, you know, and he's hiding his fears. Right. And he's like, oh, my world is crashing down around me. Right.

[01:13:53] Uh, Lachlan is hiding with his body posture. So there's a lot of, uh, Piper's hiding behind, uh, her judge, her quiet sort of judgmental. Nis hiding from her family or she just finds probably is a very brutal existence with her overbearing brother. Yeah. Yeah. So a lot of identity and a lot of deception. And I think then ultimately that is when we're not our authentic selves, that doesn't go well. Right.

[01:14:20] That's, uh, you know, and, and what Mike does with that in terms of a comic twist or two, I don't, we've got to see what's going to come. I think part of it is what is your authentic self, right? We all wear, we all do wear different masks in different situations. We have to. Yeah. Right. My John Lorhound persona is not the same persona I use with my family. Right. And that's okay. They're all different parts of me as long as I'm not, I'm not, I'm not pretending to be like a fundamentally differently valued person. Right. Right. Yeah.

[01:14:50] If your values are consistent, but like when you are at your day job, you have a certain persona that you need to present and there's a certain propriety with your coworkers. Right. There's a, a, a way that I'm going to be with my daughter that's different than one of my dad buddies, you know? And then here we can talk about all the, uh, all the different chocolates you get in the box. Absolutely. Absolutely. So another one is karma and consequence.

[01:15:20] And we've certainly got previous season actions that are going to resurface, right? Uh, uh, Belinda's a bit of a, um, uh, a living karmic response to Greg and Greg's kind of freaking out about that. Yeah. I think he's, he's like, Oh shit. Like this is the first time I didn't think anybody was going to recognize me over here. Yeah. But dude, you're hanging out at a white Lotus, you know? Why would you get one right next to the same chain?

[01:15:49] Well, at the same time, like, would you feel the same way about like a Hilton? You know what I mean? Like a lot of Hilton's around. Yeah. Yeah. And he, he, he's, he's not a guest, but he dines there regularly and he lives right up next to the property. So, you know, they're certainly glad to have his, you know, financial, you know, having these rich, fancy people. Well, I wouldn't call him fancy, but anyway, he's spending a lot of money there. Right. Cause, uh, she takes his credit card and go shopping at the, at the gift shop there.

[01:16:19] And the hotel gift shop is going to be more expensive than the local town shops. So. Right. Uh, certainly we have Timothy, uh, reaping some of his, um, uh, uh, you know, uh, trouble that he's had in the past is, is coming back to, to, um, to affect him. I, you know, it's a question is, does Belinda have any karmic sort of balances that are, you know, coming for her? I mean, her son's coming there.

[01:16:46] She's kind of, I wonder if she's a little bit sensitive too, cause she keeps jumping at noises. I mean, obviously there's lizards and monkeys and stuff that are freaking her out, but, um, she keeps hearing or sensing stuff in the rooms. I don't know. I, I, I too am an anxious person. Okay. I mean, I stayed in a hotel two nights ago and I jumped at everything too. Like I do the same thing. Uh, yeah.

[01:17:14] So look out for, for karma and consequence. Uh, then obviously we have, and we've talked about this before a little bit, but cultural exploitation, uh, and cultural appropriation. So we've got, uh, West and we talked about with the, um, with the wellness thing with wellness and then mixing it with local custom and tradition, both, you know, Buddhist, uh, culture as well as, as Thai indigenous culture.

[01:17:40] Um, uh, and obviously those things are connected, but also I think separate in some ways. Mm-hmm. And then using wellness as a commodity, uh, while at the same time sort of bypassing the deeper cultural meanings of, of these things. What are these greetings for? What are these greeting gifts for? What is this? Uh, we didn't even talk about the water gun fight, you know, running down. Oh, that was good. That was fun. Lunar New Year.

[01:18:06] I think honestly though, that was just like Mike White wanted to film a funny scene. I don't think that had any deeper meaning other than what we had. I mean, the snakes, I think was like the deeper meaning crazy scene. Right. Well, yeah. And Kate, and that's another thing, which is, uh, prison meant, you know, we're, we're prisoners of our identity. We're prisoners of, uh, of the spaces that we build.

[01:18:31] I think somewhere in one of the scenes too, there's one of the windows sort of looks like a prison window. And so, you know, people are, are both physically trapped, uh, as well as, uh, psychologically trapped by the, uh, social constructs as well as our individual personality constructs. And I think that's an interesting point that you bring up about personality.

[01:18:56] You could have different personality, but is your personality trapping you or is a per, is personality just a reflection of you? Right. Right. Right. Is it an extension or is it a limitation? Right. Right. So yeah, cultural exploitation, right. And we have all these very, very, very wealthy people, uh, living very lavish lifestyles in, in a world, in a part of the world where basic infrastructure is lacking and basic, basic healthcare might be lacking for a lot of people.

[01:19:26] Right. And that's not to say that those people can't be happy, uh, where, and as they are, but in terms of basic fundamentals of your day-to-day life, do you have clean water? Do you have access to medical care? Do you have access to reproductive care, uh, you know, healthcare and, and these kinds of things you have access to education, you know? Uh, and so those things may be lacking and yet you got Greg's boat out there cruising, you know, the day, you know?

[01:19:55] So beautiful, beautiful, uh, beautiful landscape. Yeah. Uh, and then I think we talked about this already a little bit before, which sort of wealth versus fulfillment, you know, this idea of, can you buy your happiness? Can you buy your way to spirituality? That's definitely a thing in, in every single, um, every single White Lotus, Lotus season two. Right. So some of the visual thematics, water, right? Lots of water, lots of water.

[01:20:22] And in season one, lots of water in season two, we have the, uh, tsunami dream. We have the body, the, you know, the, whoever the, uh, died in, in episode one floating in the water. Uh, we've got Greg's boat on, you know, when they're out on the water, they arrive by water, they leave by water. So, you know, you can read a lot of meaning.

[01:20:47] We could ask Piper what, uh, water means in, in terms of dreams, but, you know, impermanence or power or death, you know, a source of life. There's a lot of things that water can mean. But Mike White is reveling in it. And, uh, I do, I do like his use of camera work around water and to put us in water or put us at the surface of water. There's a part of the tsunami scene where the camera is bobbing up and down of the, at the surface of the water and the audio is cutting out.

[01:21:16] So as we submerge, the world goes quiet. And then as we pop back up onto the surface, we hear the world again. We hear the crash of the surf and waves. And, uh, so he's always got us right at those threshold levels, right? He's got Lachlan laying in a, um, pool and we're underwater with him. And then we rise up out of the water. Can I also say that if a 20 year old from North Carolina ever offers to interpret my dreams, I'm going to make a fart noise.

[01:21:46] I'm just going to do it. I can't, I can't handle that. Just, just stop yourself. Fair enough. Uh, along with the sort of identity and deception, we've got, you know, masks and disguises, uh, outward appearances and inner realities. Greg's alias. We've got a lot of security footage, right? So we're seeing things, things are being recorded. Uh, especially, did you notice that like he, Timothy's always talking about like, I'm money.

[01:22:16] I'm laundering money, like right next to guy talk. Right. Yeah. And every time he's on the phone, guy talk is there in the background and he's side-eyeing him too. It's not like he's not noticing. And then if he has, it does a security camera record audio. Like some of them don't, but some of them do. And I think that's going to help solve the question of the gun of guy talks gun. I'm going to check off. You're done. You're old. You're over. It's guy talks gun now. Yeah, that's right. That's right.

[01:22:42] Uh, if you introduce a gun in episode three, is it episode three? Episode four. Episode four. I think episode four. Yeah. Yeah. And did you, did you like that they brought in at the very end, the old white Lotus theme song? Oh, I didn't notice. Yeah. They use the old theme song because they haven't been using the old theme song. Okay. In the intros. It's a completely different melody, but then guy talk is walking down the road and you just hear. Nice. Nice. All right. I love it. Good job, Mike White.

[01:23:11] Uh, we've got masks and robbers, uh, you know, the sort of, sort of chaotic scenes versus the, the serenity of the resort. Obviously a lot of Buddhist iconography, uh, statues, meditation spaces, religious artifacts. We have, um, guests who are deeply attached to material objects and material desires while

[01:23:38] all around you have, uh, messages of transcendent, you know, or religious iconography that is pointing towards transcendence and letting go of material concerns, uh, at, at certain levels. And obviously we have a whole Buddhist temple thing that we've got. We've barely explored. I mean, Piper's been there twice when she has an appointment on Friday to go, uh, to see them. She just walks up to a guy with a laptop. Is she, she's expecting this like deep emotional experience going there.

[01:24:06] It's like, ah, you could do Tuesday, Friday at two. Friday. Yeah. Uh, oh, okay. Thanks. It was just a very like, yeah, because when you take, when you take it out of like the fantasy of it and like mystique in your preconceived notions, yeah, they're just regular people just like you. Yeah. And she's fetishizing the whole, uh, that's the word I was looking for. Thank you. Yeah. And he's just there on a laptop doing, you know, oh yeah, let me open up the calendar. Oh yeah. Yep. Yep. No problem. Do you prefer Google calendar or outlook? Uh, no, I mean, that's right.

[01:24:37] I'll send you. Yeah. Yeah. How should I send the, the calorie? Um, can you go on my Calendly? Exactly. Yeah. Here's the link. Schedule yourself. Oh, it's so bad. And then we have a lot of, um, confined space versus open water. Right. So we have this beautiful, and Mike White does this all the time, right? We have these beautiful landscapes, but then we're like in the interiors of these hotels,

[01:25:03] uh, very luxurious, but sort of also entrapping, right? Cause there's certain social conventions that are, are to be maintained in these spaces. Uh, and then obviously with the monkeys everywhere. Right. Yeah. Yeah. The, the sort of wildlife thing. So we, we've got Chekhov's monkey, Chekhov's snake and Chekhov's gun. I can't, I can't keep up with all these. Guy Talk's gun. Guy Talk's gun. Fine. Fine. But they're not, it's not his monkeys. No, they're dead. The monkeys are their own monkeys. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:25:34] Uh, should we wrap up with a little bit of a Deadpool conversation? Yeah. Who are you guessing? You get, you get one guess this time cause we only got one body. It is going to be Porn Chai. Porn Chai? Mm-hmm. Hmm. Um, I am going to go, oh, this is so tough. It's so hard, but I had, that's where I said I had a premonition today when I was watching in that episode. You know, I'll go with Timothy.

[01:26:04] Okay. Wow. Okay. I can see him going. Okay. That's very obvious. Yeah. But like, I'd be, I'd be okay with it too. He's doing a great job. I gotta say, like, I haven't seen him do anything since, since Harry Potter and he was wearing a long blonde wig. I don't know if you've seen him in full costume there. No. It's a very different look. If you look up Lucius Malfoy in Harry Potter, uh, quite a different look. And by the way, this guy, I've seen him in an interview recently. He talks about like how he like gets into character.

[01:26:35] Uh-huh. He did this whole thing where like they wanted him to have closer to his natural hair, like short hair. And he's like, oh no, no, no. This character really hates muggles. He hates non wizards. He would want to look like a wizard. He needs long blonde hair. He needs to be really exotic. He needs like silk, you know, uh, over covers on him. His, his wand should come out of a, an ornate cane. And they took all of his, his suggestions. And now he's like an iconic look. Oh, that's great. That's awesome. Yeah.

[01:27:04] He's been in a lot. I mean, he's been around for a long time. I've not been aware of him outside the Harry Potter verse. Well, I think he, he's probably in so many character roles and in so many background pieces that, uh, you know, you haven't seen him. Uh, did you ever see death of Stalin? That was really a great, oh, oh, you have to see that. That's definitely one that you got to put on you. I got to put that on a list. I've got like multiple sticky notes coming out of the conversation. Oh boy. That's got to go. I'm going to get you to watch inside.

[01:27:34] It's, it's one of my favorite specials ever. It's on Netflix. All right. Death of Stalin. Okay. Um, so you're going to go with Timothy. All right. I'm going to go with Timothy. I'll go for the obvious one. You can have the, the, yeah. Yeah. So when Belinda and, uh, Porn Chai were walking up to lay a wreath at the, one of the temples, there's nothing about that, that is out of the ordinary for the show.

[01:28:03] When Porn Chai and Belinda are walking up to put that wreath at the, at the, at the little temple shrine thing, there was just such a death, a sense of death about it. And death, maybe not being a, such a horrible thing, but you know, uh, I don't know. There was just some signaling that was going on.

[01:28:23] And then when I was watching, when I went back and, and sort of did a frame by frame of the body floating in the water, it definitely could be like the shirt, the hair, the size. There's a lot of physical characteristics that seem to match up, but I hadn't, you know, I watched the, the, the frame by frame first, but then later on, that's when it came to me. And I was just like, huh, I don't have a lot of evidence. It's more just a vibe. That's a gut feeling.

[01:28:54] But then the question is, is how are they going to die? And a couple of things that have been brought up are the pong pong fruit, right? Pam says, you know, don't eat that. That's very poisonous. That'll kill you. Also, why are you letting that grow at the resort then? Like you could definitely just like not have it go into the room. If that's in the room area. Yeah. Yeah. I suppose. I mean, if you're going to do all kinds of environmental things, you guys take some of those trees. I don't know.

[01:29:22] I'm just saying, I feel like that's just a stupid way to do business. We have monkeys, right? You know, could, could monkeys be involved in some way? Why not both? The monkey bumps or, or throws the pong pong fruit into the blender. I like that even better. So then you should change yourself, your answer to Saxton. All right. All right. I'll change it to Saxton. He's going to, he's going to have a protein shake with the blender and he's going to go for it.

[01:29:51] The gun is just so obvious, right? That it's a thing. And I think the gun battle at the beginning is a, is a diversion, you know, is a. Yeah, I agree. Is a misdirection. But, you know, is it a drowning? Is it a water related death? Because Mike White's throwing a lot of water at us. So. I'm in for Chekhov's blunder. I'm sorry. Now, now that's in my head. Now you're all over that. Or is it an accidental death or, or a suicide? So. Yet to be seen. And Mike White is really good at, at layering and obfuscating these things.

[01:30:22] Because I don't think in, in either season one or season two, you could have necessarily, there wasn't a. No, I would have never guessed Tanya in season two. I would have been like, no, she's going to be a recurring character every season. And I never would have guessed Armand in, in season one. Or if it was Armand, it was going to be a drug overdose, right? It wasn't going to be him getting accidentally stabbed. Right. Exactly. Exactly. All right. I think that's it. That's it. Yeah. We did a lot. Halfway.

[01:30:52] I am excited for the rest of it. And I guess we will be back at the end to see what our, how our predictions pan out. I think so. I think so. I think that'll be a lot of fun. Let's, let's, we'll roll the tape of the, of the predictions. We should, people should write in and tell us what their predictions are. Hmm. Now, right? Like at midway, just make a guess. White Lotus at the lorehounds.com.

[01:31:21] You get fewer points every episode that passes. Okay. If that's how that works. And we are not counting points. So it doesn't matter. We're counting bowls of cereal. Bowls of cereal. I don't need any cereal for this show. This is, this is good stuff. That's true. That's a good point. Uh, right. What do you and Alicia have cooking? Cause you guys have been in the kitchen. We've recorded three of our four white load, uh, wheel of time podcasts for the first week. Wow. Um, ready to drop.

[01:31:50] Um, yes, they are scheduled on all the podcast platforms. Um, our, our podcast, the embargoes lift 9 a.m. Eastern on each Thursday. Okay. So they will, they will go live then. Great. Uh, so we're doing two podcasts for the main recaps, one on episode one, one on episodes two and three, and then we're doing two lore casts. One of them is going to be public.

[01:32:15] The other one is going to be, uh, uh, uh, Patreon and supercast and season pass only. Right. Um, we're just doing the one lore cast is like a teaser of the season pass. So don't expect that on the public feed regularly. Um, we might do like, you know, another sample, but, uh, most of, most of the content is going to be paywalled behind the season pass, which is, you know, I think a good deal. 10 bucks. You get all the, all the information. You'll get the show guide that I'm wrapping up with, with Nancy. Nancy has done so much work on it. I feel, I feel terrible that I've, I've not done more on it.

[01:32:44] I, but I can't believe every time I log onto it, Nancy has done like five more pages. Do you, and she did so much work on the Dune show guide. Uh, she's like a lore master. Like she is a lore master. The hand of the pod. So yes, uh, regular subscribers are going to get all of that and season pass folks for our folks who just sort of dip in and out for individual shows and content. We have the non-recurring single purchase season pass, and, uh, that's going to be 10 bucks

[01:33:14] because you're going to get episodes as they drop. You're getting scheduled lore casts and you're getting a show guide. Yeah. So lots of content. And we got severance going on too. You want to talk about severance a little? We do. We're almost up to our penultimate episode, episode nine. And, uh, this is going to go till 10. And we do have a season pass for that. That's five bucks and it doesn't have a show guide and it has unscheduled and unplanned, uh, what we call supply clause. Yeah. You go, we're going to do two or three. I think there's already like nine of them.

[01:33:44] There's as many for every episode. I just been going crazy. It's such a good show. I got so inspired. And I, I'm doing a supply closet with Mark on Friday. So do you want to tease what that's about? We're going to, you know, if you want to hear me talk more about like, well, actually it's not really about feminism. It's about the book sapiens and how that relates to these discussions that we've been having on the podcast. Mostly you've been having, cause I wasn't on the last one and I heard this. And it's so funny that Mark and I both thought of the same book when, and you guys are on the discord and you're like this and that, and you guys are like, Oh, let's record a

[01:34:14] podcast. I loved reading that interaction. Why not? Um, because, because it's, it's the idea of like things that are not faith being religion, like humans sort of moving perhaps beyond traditional religions into alternative religions, like political theories and capitalism and you know what I mean? Like these science, these other, uh, yeah. And they just, these other religions that, that, uh, and, and it's really interesting,

[01:34:42] you know, I'll, I'll go into it. I'll go into it on the podcast. I don't want to go. It's going to be an interesting guy. Yeah. It's going to be a great conversation. Yep. So, yeah, we're having a lot of fun with Anthony and Steve from properly Howard. This is our first time where we've done full production with them. And, uh, Anthony and I had some fun yesterday or the other last week, I should say, in the last episode where I thought I was engineering the episode. He thought he was, we kept kicking each other out of the recording platform going back and forth. It was really great. And then he forgot to record for the first minute. Yeah. I heard that part.

[01:35:11] I was like, Oh man. So we're, but it's, it's been a really, really good. We get, it's, it's a very popular show. This is a monocultural event. Severance is happening. So, um, and then after that, we're going to have last of us. And I think we're going to just do that straight down the middle. Yeah. No, no, no, no show pass, no season guide. You and I are just going to do episode by episode sort of scene by scene ish breakdowns. I'm excited. I'm getting Brandon. He already started it. He, we're going to be covering the game at some point.

[01:35:41] Okay. Uh, the second game. Now I believe we're going to have the same game stretched out over a couple of seasons. Okay. So I don't know if, how far are you going to go? Yeah. I think we'll still talk about the whole game because it's going to be hard to divide it. Yeah. You don't know where they're going to break at the same time. There is a very clear break in the middle of the game. Anyway. All right. I'm going to discuss that with Brandon. We'll figure out the plans on that. Very cool. I've been doing my rewatch of, uh, last of us, man, what a good show. That was such a good season of television.

[01:36:07] It was a banger episode, a banger episode season of television and the games are great. Yeah. I think we will laugh and we will cry during season two. I think we will. Boy. Yeah. If they are going to punch us the way they punched us in season one, we're going to get beat up pretty, pretty bad. There are moments in the second game that are wildly darker than the first game. Well, that's saying something. I know. I know it's saying something and I mean it. Yeah. Forewarned. I am warned.

[01:36:35] Uh, and then we're going to have and or coverage full and or coverage. We're going to do a season pass for that. We're going to have a bunch of scheduled bonus episodes and we're going to do something. We're calling in the squadrons. Don't, don't, don't reveal too much of the plan yet because I got to, my next thing is I'm going to make, I'm going to make a promo for it. That's going to be real cutesy. Very cool. Well, we have a, we're not going to do like everybody else and just knuckle down and try to punch through. We're going to do episode because they're dropping three episodes.

[01:37:05] For four weeks. So it's like three episodes, one night, and then you have a week to watch them. And then another three episodes for four weeks where I think most podcasters are just going to have to knuckle down and go through it. We have a plan that's going to be pretty fun. I think. I will just say coverage for you. We will have an, we will have a podcast for every episode individually. That's right. That's all I'm going to say. Fair enough. And then hopefully we can take a little break before summer slams us again and we've get

[01:37:34] like the bear and alien earth and other stuff. Foundation. Foundation. Foundation. Yeah. Like when is that coming? So. David Goyer, come back. We want to talk to you. Yeah. Yeah. If you're listening, Mr. Goyer, we would, uh, I want to talk to him about science fiction writ large, not just foundation. So. Yeah. Yeah. Wouldn't that be nice? Do you want to, uh, give the shout outs for this evening? Let's just very quickly plug the rest of the network too. Oh, of course. Absolutely.

[01:38:01] You know, nevermind the music you you're going to hear me and Mark on Friday. Well, whenever it comes out, it'll probably come out like Saturday. Um, you know, they do, they do music and psychology together. I just listened to their barbershop episode. I know that's now not the most recent episode, but a lot of fun, a lot of fun as someone who is a veteran acapella guy. Oh, nice. I, I, uh, I really enjoyed listening to their sidetrack on acapella groups and barbershop in general. So as the day that we're recording this, they dropped a Drake episode, but this was like

[01:38:29] recorded like months, like a long time ago. Yeah. Before Kendrick murdered his career. Right. Exactly. And I think they're already playing season two and, uh, yeah, that's going to be good. I'm excited for what they've got coming up. Very exciting. Radioactive ramblings covering invincible week to week. Nice. So please go check that out. I know I, I see a lot of chatter about it in the discord. I gotta, I gotta get into the show, but I see a lot of chatter for it. And it looks like, like it's, they're, uh, they're having a great time. Good. Good.

[01:38:59] And I think that's it because Anthony and Steve are on a break, but they, uh, um, I think they're working on their next season as well. And then, uh, I know rings and rituals, Marilyn's gonna, I know they're, they're thinking about, um, how to place their coverage so that when season three comes back, they're going to feed more directly into it. So. I know at least she's doing some dune coverage soon. All right. She, I made her tell me on the last podcast I recorded with her. I was like, what are you doing? Cause every time I get to wool shift dust in the, in the show notes, I don't know what to say right now.

[01:39:29] Well, all I know is that they, that her and Luke killed it on, on wool shift dust, uh, this year. Oh yeah. Did a great job. She, she rolled out of silo onto the Oscars and full coverage of the Oscars. And now is rolling straight into a wheel of time. So no rest for the wicked. But you know what? I am so glad that we got screeners for the wheel of time. It is a huge help. Huge save it. Huge help. For real. Yeah. All right. Does that, uh, I think that covers it again, please, uh, if you have been

[01:39:58] considering it, we would love to have your subscription to help support the network. Uh, it'd be at a season pass or a regular, uh, subscription. I mean, you get 10% off on an annual. It's a pretty good deal. Uh, and, um, we have a lot of great people in our community. We've got a pretty hop in discord these days. And, uh, do you want to give a shout out to our discord server boosters? I would love to, if I can keep my eyes open. Aaron K.

[01:40:24] Tiller, the thriller, dork of the ninjas, do 71, Athena, a Tina, Lestu, Nancy M, ghost of perdition and radioactive Richard. Thank you for keeping the bits flowing on discord. And our lore masters, Samarshan, Michael G, Michelle E, Brian P, SC, Peter O.H., Bettina W, Adam S, Nancy M, Doove 71, Brian 80 63, Frederick H, Sarah L, Gareth C, Matthew M, Sarah M, DJ Miwa,

[01:40:50] Andra B, Kwong Yu, Dead Eye Jedi Bob, Nathan T, Alex V, Sub Zero, Aaron K, Deli V, Mothership 61, Narls, Kathy W, Lestu, Jeffrey B, Elisa Yu, Neil F, Ben B, Scott F, Stephen N, Julia F, Kali S, Ilmariel, and Adrian. Thank you all for your support. It really helps us keep everything rolling and keep doing bonus stuff like

[01:41:19] the White Lotus. We do too many podcasts, but we're having fun with it. So who cares? Thanks everyone. Good night. The Lorehounds podcast is produced and published by the Lorehounds. You can send questions and feedback and voicemails at thelorehounds.com slash contact. Get early and ad free access to all Lorehounds podcasts at patreon.com slash the Lorehounds. Any opinions stated are ours personally and do not reflect the opinion of

[01:41:48] or belong to any employers or other entities. Thanks for listening. Hey everyone, David here. Severance is back. The Lorehounds are partnering with Properly Howard to bring you in-depth weekly coverage of season two. Join me, John, Anthony, and Steve as we unpack every twist, theory, and revelation.

[01:42:15] We've created a dedicated feed just for our Severance coverage. Simply search for Severance Lorehounds in your podcast app or find the direct link in our link tree. Our weekly episodes dig deep into the show's mysteries, themes, and bigger questions about identity and consciousness that makes Severance so compelling. Season Pass and regular community subscribers get ad-free access to our weekly episodes,

[01:42:45] plus exclusive content like our Supply Closet bonus series, featuring fascinating conversations with experts like the team from Nevermind the Music. We've explored the neuroscience of memory and personality, decoded the hidden meanings in the show's musical themes, and there's much more to come. You'll also get Steve and Anthony's complete season one rewatch series.

[01:43:10] We believe in total transparency with our listeners, and unlike Mammalians Nurturable, we're happy to share all of our secrets. Find the link for the Severance feed in the show notes below, or search Severance Lorehounds wherever you get your podcasts. Come theorize with us about what's really happening at Lumen.

[01:43:33] Are you ready for a deep dive into one of the most intense animated series out there?

[01:44:06] Welcome to Radioactive Ramblings, where we are currently breaking down the world of Invincible. Each week, we're going to unpack the jaw-dropping twists, the unforgettable characters, and that trademark brutal action. From Mark Grayson's journey to the darker side of heroism, to our continued love of Debbie, we've got every moment covered. Mark, I don't want to hurt you. I'm not the one who's going to get hurt. You said you don't do threats. Yeah. Well, people change.

[01:44:32] Whether you're a longtime fan or just getting started, tune in to our exclusive takes, fan theories, and so much more. Catch new episodes of Radioactive Ramblings every week. Your go-to podcast for all things Invincible, and more. There's been a lot of stories chaque 역 in our we've got one. You know about the impression者 that we took a short two days ago on thebike as a man to Quantico. And so we've gone dun. We'll do the following Parker. I'll be right back. airy to my belongs here and have a great honor. I've been from today's show and in West. It'd