True Detective - S04E06 - Night Country: Part 6

[00:00:00] Welcome to the True Detective podcast where the Lourhounds year guides to the weirdness

[00:00:20] of the Long Night.

[00:00:21] I'm David.

[00:00:22] I'm John, and this is our coverage of the Season 4 been great, a lot of fun, folks been kicking around theories. So link in the show notes for the server and for emails and website and all that stuff. Check us out on annual membership. You know, your subscription isn't, it's not like this is a commercial business that John and I do, this is, well, you know, we don't wanna like lose, we're not losing money on it, but you know, your subscriptions go to creating the space

[00:03:01] for this community, for the Discord,

[00:03:05] for all our recording software, all the stuff.

[00:03:06] And so if you are kind of ready for the show to be over. I'm, there's so much that I love about the show

[00:05:41] and I'm really glad that this was our kind of lead off show

[00:05:46] for the year. And so it was the swinginess of it, right? There were times where like, wow, this is so paranormal, it's awesome. And then right now, back to Monday. And it's not that either one of those is a problem. It's just the swinginess. I didn't know how to deal with the fact that we're going from almost one extreme to another.

[00:07:01] Yeah.

[00:07:02] So, you know, when I think about a compared to Fargo,

[00:07:05] which is a tough comparison to do. That being said, I think she did a really good job, especially looking at her filmography. This is your second TV work ever, her first American TV work too. And that's really impressive that she was able to pull this together so well. I do think that the season, I don't want to talk about the season that much, but this episode in particular suffered from length.

[00:08:20] I don't think it worked as an hour 15.

[00:08:22] Right.

[00:08:23] It was an hour 15 on our trailers, this would be a conversation for the season wrap-up. But yeah, I don't wonder if there wasn't some back and forth with HBO and the length and did stuff

[00:09:40] get compressed or stretched out. It does feel, and I think. There were points where I, like episode four, I was so hot on, I was like, can't wait to rewatch this. Episode five, I was like, oh, I have to rewatch this because it was dense. And episode one was the same way. We're veering into season rep up territory. I know, I know, I know. So I'll move on from that.

[00:11:00] I wanna talk about what I liked about the episode

[00:11:01] because we've been a little critical here.

[00:11:04] I thought that the junior priors relationship stuff

[00:11:08] really worked for me. you got to figure out what to do. And that's it's a dark message, but it's an important message. And it's an important thing to highlight the way that an UPAC and other indigenous communities are taken advantage of by institutions and how governments. Assist the oppression, right? Maybe they don't do it directly, but nobody was stopping that

[00:12:20] mind without the actions of the UPAC women there.

[00:12:23] Right. And the mine had the benefit of the doubt when it came to institutional support.

[00:13:23] Blair said in a ritual kind of thing. It wasn't 100%, but I was in the right zone.

[00:13:28] So.

[00:13:29] Shoot up a Blair.

[00:13:31] Shoot up a Blair.

[00:13:32] Shoot up a Blair.

[00:13:33] Like a flare.

[00:13:35] Like a flare.

[00:13:35] Like you're successful, I don't know.

[00:13:37] Yeah, leave it in.

[00:13:38] Leave it in.

[00:13:39] All right, leave it in.

[00:13:41] I think, and of course, you know,

[00:13:42] we'll talk about this more in the season wrap up.

[00:14:45] up. But anyway, yeah, I think that's about all I have to say for the episode until we get into the scene by scene. And we got a ton of feedback. So yeah, let's let's let's

[00:14:49] get into that scene by scene because we don't want to we don't want to keep the people waiting.

[00:14:53] Not too much.

[00:14:55] All right, as always, a few combined scenes here. So it might be a little bit out of order,

[00:15:00] but mostly in order. We opened with Danvers. Navarro is Navarro the monster. No. Was Clark the monster? Clark the monster. Peter's the monster. Peter's the monster. No, I don't. Okay. Yeah, that's going to get you to take. Okay. Yeah. Sure. That's the hot one. Sure. All right. All right. So back to the matter at hand. I don't know if you noticed this.

[00:16:22] I didn't pick it up until the second watch and, you know, we used to hang out in the ice caves. We used to go exploring. And then you, of course, we had the warning, the ominous warning from, what was the name of the guy that she had in custody who died? Heist. Yeah, he's like, yeah, you can't go over there. You're going to fall through. And yeah, I'm sure. Yeah. Strodingers ice fall.

[00:18:42] they would fall through and find the secret area, right? Because if they don't fall through, they never find the lab.

[00:18:46] Right.

[00:18:46] They just wander around for a long time.

[00:18:49] So yeah, it's certainly, I mean, that's a big push of the show is, is

[00:18:54] Navarro becoming, you know, finding that inner peace and opening the hatch

[00:19:01] lid, so to speak, and connecting with people and answering people's Instagram comments and things like that. So, you know, I'm glad that she is throwing punches back as hard as people are trying to throw them at her.

[00:20:22] So good for her.

[00:20:22] Yeah, I think definitely defending unfair criticism is totally fair.

[00:20:27] Yeah.

[00:20:28] Yeah. who's Bush stuff. So Danvers discovers the murder weapon, and then they discover the latter to the lab where Twist and Shout seems to be playing again. I don't know why it was playing again. Yeah, it didn't really amount to anything at the end, did it? No, and we never got a full explanation, I don't think.

[00:21:43] No, of her son's death, you mean?

[00:21:45] Yeah, I don't think we if I'm wrong, you know, the true crime podcast people can write in and let us know. But there's like vast databases of forensics that can tell you these things. And so I don't think that that drill bit was necessarily exotic. That's something that somebody would have a specific use for, but that's not something,

[00:23:02] you know, out of the ordinary.

[00:23:04] Right.

[00:23:05] That would come in a toolbox. at all gets. The one thing I was kind of missed in this scene too was Clark did make a creepy shrine to Annie there where she was murdered but we never really get to see it and we see a lot of the lab and the robotics and the ice

[00:24:20] cores but we don't get to see the creepy stuff that Clark did is you know out of carefully so I could write the synopsis and take my notes and look up stuff. Each scene itself is fine and it's really good. It's just that when you put them all together, there's something weird happens in this big extra long episode where you're like, uh, each scene is fine except for Danvers deposition,

[00:25:40] which I thought was utter horseshit.

[00:25:42] Okay.

[00:25:43] Well, we'll talk about when we get there.

[00:25:44] Well, yeah, we'll get there, but I, I role or anything like that. It was just, she saw some freaky footprints where they clarks, where somebody else's, we don't know if they were real or not. But it didn't mean anything in the end. She still got conked on the back of the head by the, you know, with the first one. Yeah. Well, I, in my head, Clark just lapped her, right? She's just kind of silly. He did

[00:27:04] a circle because he knows this place. That's the whole point of this, right? He just knows that are layered in the show that Isalope has sets up for us, and then they pay off later. Yep. You know, so there's a lot of great scene episode to episode construction detail. Like I really love the fact that she paid attention and she made sure that we saw the lanyard, but you know, it, it, it, then it played itself out in the fight in one of the

[00:28:22] final scenes.

[00:28:23] So.

[00:28:24] That was good.

[00:28:25] I did like, I did think it was kind of's life or death. And she's, you know, I think, yeah, I give it to her. So. Right. We quickly jump scenes to Peter cleaning up at Danvers House, where Leah surprises Peter, who tries to cover up the truth.

[00:31:00] He gets her out of the house by making up an? Like she doesn't want her merits to fall apart. She just wants her husband back. And the minute he shows himself to have a little bit of vulnerability, she's like, there's my guy. She kind of, even though he's hiding something from her factually, he's being realer with her than he's been in probably months. And she recognizes the authenticity.

[00:31:03] Yeah, she was like, recognizes that.

[00:31:04] She recognizes that.

[00:31:05] And he's not bullshitting me. Yeah. And then with Kayla, and with, this is a very true detectivey thing too, the price you pay for being a guardian, the price you pay for being on the threshold of, keeping the other bad men out, you have to be a little bit of a bad man yourself.

[00:32:21] And Peter does say he was an animal raised by animals

[00:32:26] to be an animal, right? left. And he's definitely not getting paid or getting a promotion now. So yeah, I'd say he kind of was just like at the end of his rope and he's like, I'm done. Yeah. He needs to pick his last breakfast. He should have done that. He should have listened to our podcast on second breakfast.

[00:33:46] This thing though with Peter, this Yeah, right later, right I Was really surprised because I thought that this was the way he was talking to Kayla Mmm sounded like I'm gonna quit this stuff right after I finish this mmm, and I wouldn't have blamed him Although it's harder to it's harder to cover your tracks if you're not a cop, right

[00:35:04] Yeah, you can't scup, you know, yeah, we steer the investigations and stuff can't flood the evidence room

[00:36:03] the characters themselves, this is an amazing opportunity for these young actors.

[00:36:05] And I'm just so happy that they all knocked it out of the park,

[00:36:11] that every one of them did a phenomenal job.

[00:36:15] It was really an amazing set of performances by these actors.

[00:36:20] Yeah.

[00:36:21] I think especially Peter really impressed me.

[00:36:23] And part of it is just we saw the most of him compared to the others.

[00:36:26] Yeah. Yeah. With bicks. Yeah. Yeah. That was rough. Yeah. That's a good call. I didn We'll get there. All right. Fair enough. The orange thing bugged me so much. Like I literally thought like, okay, we're in the forest gum mode now. Mom always said left was like a spiral orange.

[00:39:02] So what was that?

[00:39:05] I think Lopez is was just, move on, move on. Right. And then, yeah, we get an orange peel in the opening credit sequence. And of course, yeah, Liz later. So how did the scene make it through editing? That was my question. And then there's a pile of oranges in the refrigerator as well. It's one of men. So anyway. They question Clark, of course.

[00:40:22] And they learn that Salal was pushing the mind We are conversant in the language of flashback as she's using them in the show, so that when we see the truth of the flashback and we hear the lie of the person in the present, we understand exactly what's going on here. So she did a really good job of training us in how she was going to use those.

[00:41:40] And so when we get that final scene with Clark and Annie Kay,

[00:41:44] it is just chilling. We sell all stuff with the mind because it kind of presents a little bit of a trolley problem. Yes. Should any K die to preserve this experiment that will potentially save millions of lives? Should the people of this impoverished community suffer water conditions, still birds?

[00:43:00] How many babies need to die to justify your experiment?

[00:43:03] Like there's reasons we have ethics in science and there's reasons that we go slower than Right. All right. We have to be choosing to kill the girl to save the world. Very good. We are very against that here. Yeah. And yet a certain podcaster, I know. Mm. Game. A certain give a certain character, a lot of flack for saving the girl.

[00:44:23] I got a lot of flack.

[00:44:25] I got plenty.

[00:44:26] I'm just saying you can't win in this situation. corporation that's being secretive and unethical. What's the likelihood that they're going to give this discovery to the people of the earth for free? It's gonna go the way of insulin, right? It's gonna go the way of insulin, right? Oh, how did that work out? Did that not? I don't know exactly how it turned out, but it was like when making insulin via bacteria

[00:45:43] was created, I believe that that became a whole thing

[00:45:46] of letting a shitload of money out of this. and the amount that they spend on this is insane. And so you're right, that's a serious concern too, right? Is who ends up with this cure and who gets it? And what they told us is that it is this, this total organization that's involved in all kinds of multinational shenanigans.

[00:47:02] And if they're secretly, you know,

[00:47:05] and if they're willing to go to this level, And then, as we were saying before at the top of the podcast, the institutions are going to give the mind and the and solal the benefit of the doubt over a an anupia woman who is a known activist and, you know, somebody who's an agitator and causing problems, right?

[00:48:22] She's not going to have the kind of which is the fact that all of them are liars in some way, all of them being Navarro, Danvers and Clark. Clark's not telling the truth about what happened with Annie. Navarro and to the ghost, you know, that she saw. And so she was just like, boom. Yeah. I think that's right. I think she was just like, oh, you are just accusing this guy.

[00:51:00] And I can't abide this guy

[00:51:03] going to prison mocking your death.

[00:51:05] Right, exactly.

[00:51:06] And I do like that Danvers takes a break and cuts an orange peel. I'm sorry. What's this? My mom always said, okay, I'm done. I cuts an orange peel into a spiral and then knocks an orange off the table and

[00:52:22] notices something weird where the tongue was found. So I don't have a, we don't have a resolution to it. And it's kind of like, and it's not even like there's a revolution that it's super ambiguous. It's just kind of more like a head scratcher for me anyway. Right. I don't know if that's just me. It's a meaningless mystery, right? Yeah. And that's the problem is it's not like. Does it leave me haunting?

[00:53:40] Right.

[00:53:41] Ooh, that was so spooky.

[00:53:43] Something to think about.

[00:53:44] I mean, like, I guess what's implied

[00:53:46] is that like, Sedna put it there?

[00:54:43] driving the research station. It was the research station driving the mine. I think that was kind of a cool thing that, you know,

[00:54:46] right, these supposed good guy scientists are actually, you know,

[00:54:50] they were the real bad guys in the end.

[00:54:54] So I guess my question is, are they causing these head injuries to herd Navarro to muddy the

[00:55:03] waters on? Is this supernatural or not? Or are they just having hallucinations? can't hear it. And so she's constantly being, you know, the the knock on the door is getting louder and louder to try to reach into her and only does she have that near death experience where she can actually, yeah, be more in contact with it. So Holden keeps trying to reach out to her in like the space between sleep and awake and wakefulness. Yeah. And I think that's often a theme of like that's where you're the most in

[00:56:22] touch with spiritual things. Isn't that twilight between being something crazy and spooky or was that something mundane and explainable through rational real world occurrences. So right. Right. As Peter drives out to roses, the power is knocked out by the storm. Norals? Anyway, Liz goes to get some rest and finds a necklace of a cross in her hair

[00:58:42] when she kind of looks at it. But I don't understand what its purpose was.

[00:58:47] Yeah, yeah.

[00:58:48] It was just, okay, well these people had all their stuff.

[00:58:53] Like she's sleeping in the bunk of these people

[00:58:55] who just kind of left in the middle of the night.

[00:58:57] They didn't pack anything.

[00:58:58] Yeah.

[00:58:59] You know, or was it a clue left over from the night

[00:59:02] that they were all abducted or something?

[00:59:03] I don't know, I don't know what to make of it.

[00:59:05] Yeah.

[00:59:06] As the storm gets worse, And it kind of, was it kind of the current and his spirit being set free now that he's, you know, he's out there frozen. Did his ghost sort of, is there some sort of weird like, oh, okay, I can be free now. I don't have to be trapped in this. I did read it as the ghost. Okay.

[01:00:20] I thought that that was Clark's ghost and, you know, it just keep, we just keep talking

[01:00:23] about or at least Navarro perceives it as Clark's ghost, right?

[01:00:27] Right.

[01:00:28] Right. It's the fact that they don't have Clark anymore. And it's just like all these frustrations, right? Like your case just fell apart. You have no idea who killed these people. You're trapped out of the stupid research session. You literally might die because of a lack of power, which is insane. And something that, you know,

[01:01:41] it happens in the mainland US, depending on where you live.

[01:01:45] But not as easily as it happens in a blizzard in Alaska. We again see a little bit of the car crash, but we don't see anything further. So, or was that later? I'm kind of getting confused now with all these visions and flash. But this is where the middle of this episode was really kind of hard to,

[01:03:00] if you're just watching it straight through,

[01:03:02] I just felt like, what's going on?

[01:03:03] But then again, like I said, when I parsed it up,

[01:03:07] all of this stuff was first born, I would have these horrible fantasies about just stupid things happening. We call that anxiety, David. Yes. It makes hills for that. Okay, good. Well, I was able to get through it, but it was not fun for those first couple of years. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:04:20] I think Brooklyn, I was always worried about cars jumping the curbs and stuff like that.

[01:04:24] So I'd stand way back with my stroller.

[01:04:27] It's scary.

[01:04:28] It's scary to fight for it. And so she's in the present, in alive, while we've got Danvers, who's cold and alone and in the dark

[01:05:40] and ultimately almost dies.

[01:05:43] And that these two parts of this relationship, the line that Leah said last episode about the I haven't given up on you. So I think that that feedback actually set me up to be receptive to to Leah trying to reach out to Liz in this search situation. Fair enough. Danvers can't get any rest. So she goes back out and follows the

[01:07:01] embers from the fire to discover that Navarro is out on the soldier with their head blown off. And we hear that voice that says, or I think even the soldier says, listen. So the spirit world is trying to tell her, like listen girl, we wanna communicate through you and we wanna help you do the things that you do. You just need to listen to us and understand

[01:08:23] and learn how we're speaking.

[01:08:24] And she's not, she's got series of visions. She wakes and asks Evangeline what Holden said to her and her visions. A lot of people following in the IC, a lot of people under the water here, dead and alive.

[01:09:41] Yeah, and the whole thing of, you know,

[01:09:44] you of course think of Peter with his flashback even though she's gotten as close as she could to the surface, but she just needed that extra help to get out of that situation. Liz Danvers accept help? I know, right? She had to die to be reborn. Right? Yeah, when overjoyed Liz Danvers talking in her deposition later,

[01:11:01] well, you know, Jolly, I have my staff died,

[01:11:03] but I'm here.

[01:11:06] Right.

[01:11:06] And...

[01:11:07] Oh yeah, I was just gonna say this idea that, But I think it breaks Danvers because she's like, he sees me being this miserable curmudgeon who everyone hates. Right, nobody wants to work with. Who is just being a horrible stepmother to Leah. And I think she's kind of inspired to do better from that.

[01:12:22] She's like, I have to be the mom that I was the whole in.

[01:12:26] Yeah, yeah. Deadbed flat way. It was great. Absolutely. Great actor. Absolutely. Rose then tells Peter that the worst part isn't over, but what comes after forever, that's the worst. Effin part. You say, Evan, we are rated explicit. That's the word.

[01:13:46] A title card tells us that it is now January 1st, the 15th day of the long night.

[01:14:46] of Julia, you know, Julia went into the water. But then she was cremated and her ashes were hot. But then they went back cold again and where Hank, Hank is just going into the cold, you know,

[01:14:50] he's, he doesn't get anything. He gets a plastic bag and some duct tape, you know.

[01:14:57] He does. And his body was moved, right? His murder was covered up just like he did.

[01:15:03] Just like he covered up any good point. I mean Blair of the half and sorry I'm missing with you here. I see what you're doing here. Hold the door. Yeah. Yeah. And Holden right. You know the little ghost baby guy. We have Blair of the half hand. I thought you know I was like okay. That's yeah. That was that was a good.

[01:16:21] That was that was a good that was a good way to solve the mystery.

[01:16:26] I thought.

[01:16:27] Right.

[01:17:22] Staged by Navarro and then he said

[01:17:29] You know, I'll let me let me go out and freeze and meet my my seven. She was like, okay. That's that's a fitting

[01:17:36] You know, that's justice, right? Mm-hmm. So that that's for me. What it was was that okay? That was put together by the both of them

[01:17:41] All right, I buy that I buy that now that you're you're putting it together like that sure, okay Yeah, cuz he didn't seem to have suffered when he went out there in the certain it wasn't like

[01:18:43] Culper is just going to reveal all the truths now. That's just going to happen.

[01:18:44] I was like, and sure you had Navarro sort of sweet talk our way and say, here's my Anubiac

[01:18:50] name.

[01:18:51] Oh, it was my grandmother's.

[01:18:52] Okay.

[01:18:53] Cool.

[01:18:54] You know what I mean?

[01:18:55] There was a transition.

[01:18:56] But the fact that she was spilling all the beans, that was really surprising to me until

[01:19:02] the group of Anubiac women came in one by one with their tea basically. There's a lot of responsibility there. That's true. You know, if you throw somebody into the lions then, you killed them. Right. Into the hungry lions then. I don't know if you noticed, but a lot of those women were all in other scenes of the movie, the movie show of the season.

[01:20:20] Yeah, like the hairdresser scene, right?

[01:20:22] Yeah.

[01:20:23] And the, yeah.

[01:20:24] Pre-notarium technician and the woman who gave birth and yeah. really had it come in here. Yeah. Yeah. And this was the community fighting back, right? It wasn't just about any case. Like they learned that they were poisoning the water too. And like how many stillbirths does this community, like obviously this was an illegal act, but really like. Extrajudicial. Yeah. Who can fault them for being angry

[01:21:41] that their babies are dying?

[01:21:43] Well, these people are living a fairly comfortable life.

[01:21:47] Right. And not drinking the door. Yeah, I mean, it was a really beautiful scene. This was my favorite scene. Probably the whole series was this whole thing of like, we came together as a community and

[01:23:02] we took justice into our own hands.

[01:23:05] And they really nail what they clearly knew what happened here. There was no issue as you went to prison, even if Danvers arrested the UPAC women.

[01:24:21] There was no way Kilpatrick ever goes to prison for this.

[01:24:24] Maybe Hank does.

[01:24:25] Hank's a good fall guy for that, it's somebody even commented on my comment from an earlier episode that I had forgotten already, which was, you can make a mystery, but you need me to care about the people the mystery effects. Oh yeah, there's a feedback about that. That's what I mean, yeah, somebody emailed about it. And I had forgotten I even said that, but it's true. And here I care about this community

[01:25:41] because I've learned about,

[01:25:43] Annie Kay being the only midwife in the area,

[01:25:46] and I've learned about the stillbirths happening, That's what I'm saying here. And I'm ignoring the bloat, basically. Right, got it. Okay, cool. All right, last scene here. My least favorite scene of the whole series. We jump ahead to May 12th, the first long day of the year, and Danvers is being interviewed by a pair of detectives.

[01:27:02] So this is straight up, an apparition on her. That was the dumbest thing I've ever seen. I'm sorry, but you're gonna leave Navarro as ambiguously a ghost. And she's in a deposition.

[01:28:21] You're gonna tell me that she gets to go,

[01:28:24] well, let's just say you're not gonna find her out

[01:28:26] on the ice.

[01:28:27] And they don't say, can you elaborate? Oh, but then the mother died six years ago of of mysterious illness and you should go after the girl you chased in season one. Okay, so just like if you stopped short of that, it's a great ending. But because you went that extra length, you left me with such a bad taste in my mouth.

[01:29:41] Right, right.

[01:29:42] No, I don't want to say it's that bad.

[01:29:43] It's not that bad because I still enjoy the her give her gifts to everybody and then disappear. Fine. But like, why is she on Denver's porch? Yeah. Why is she on Denver's porch? But nobody knows where she is. Yeah. Bizarre. Bizarre decision that I do not understand. And I'll be listening to wrapping up the season. Well, we're going to have a special guest with us as well. We've got a fun person to talk to. So tune in for that. Make sure you get it in the feedback to true detective at the lorehounds.com. But should we get into some feedback now? Yeah, let's do it. But first, let's take a quick break.

[01:32:21] Also, I like the show.

[01:32:22] Don't tune season one. And they showed us the killer right away with the drawing. And then season four episode one, we see a drawing of Sedna by Darwin. So, and then Melby says, dig into Sedna's story, heaps of connection. So yeah, Sedna, it's, I kind of like

[01:33:43] that they don't actually call it out in the show.

[01:33:46] And that if you wanna go dig for the mystery Just as they're showing the scene, there's a door, and the door is covered with some plastic. And on the plastic, there's some faint writing that looks like it had been worn away. And what it is is apparently it's SWDP, which is a program for, it's the acronym for a program for marginalized women and children

[01:35:00] that provides clean drinking water

[01:35:02] due to contamination in the area.

[01:35:05] So not only did Mel be spot-bat, and the ice tunnels by which, I believe to be glaciers. So a couple of things, yeah, we had the oranges and we have the orange peel, we have Danvers falling through the ice herself, so that's actually a reel, so again, all like things. And it's not the laundry line, it's that that's Wheeler's house and the van is out there, so I think that's,

[01:36:21] oh, but there is a laundry line, isn't there?

[01:36:23] That doesn't, yeah, that's a good one.

[01:36:26] I'm trying to remember now. city. There's no connectivity across it unless you're a Federale or something like that. Anyway, the polar bear staring down on the wolf with a big dipper or Ryan big bear in the sky. Damn it, Isa. I don't even know what it means, but it's something. So I think Mel is having a lot of fun taking apart this show. Yeah, the trophy case in the police station is in

[01:37:41] way too many shots to be ignored. I don't know if there's

[01:37:44] anything there.

[01:37:44] I don't know if that came to go. I'm going to fart. That's, that's going to be my response.

[01:39:04] Elle Shonlant says, tried to come up with an ancient microorganism that the scientists are studying. The microorganism has side effects in sanity haunting hallucinations. When Clark tells Lund about Annie's incident accident, they retrieve the body and take her tongue to study the microorganism, dumping the body at the edge of the village.

[01:40:21] The haunting is from proximity slash length of time

[01:40:24] around who's infected.

[01:40:26] So, Navarro found her her body was infected. Navarro's closest kin jewels get infected and slowly goes crazy and suicides after moving to Alaska. Navarro's former partner Liz has to use a white noise machine to suppress the spookies and they are starting to come back after they start working together again. That's good and late. Until episode 5, I was swooning over the brilliance of an intense final battle in the mines. Like the descent, all claustrophobic and dark, what better setting could you dream up? Just imagine all that built in palpable tension.

[01:43:00] Even as tough as Navarro is, I bet telling my wife about the show and she's like, Oh, Jody Foster is in it? Yeah. Like people light up to that. Yeah, for sure. And it's there's no there are no critical flaws in these.

[01:44:22] A lot of what we're talking about are nitpicks or a little disjointed things.

[01:44:25] But functionally, the show is not there's no there's nothing that's not taking responsibility for that. Okay, next up, our dear friend, Kim M by email. Hi, David and John. Wow, I am wholeheartedly invested in these characters at this point, especially Navarro and Danvers, phenomenal performances by Foster and Reese, actually all the performances are amazing. Agreed, Kim. I have been really just, and it seems murderer. Yeah, he kind of got pushed into... And he didn't know how to handle... I think he didn't kind of not know how to handle after he shot heist. He kind of shot him out of reflex. Right. What would he have? That's a really interesting question. Like, what was going to go down?

[01:47:01] If Peter hadn't been there, like, how would that have all worked out?

[01:47:05] He would have killed...

[01:47:06] Oh, he would have killed Dammers, for sure.

[01:47:08] Yeah. The construction styles are from the lower 48s, grafted into other places. And so, yeah, that's the way it ends up. And I think it's an absolutely spot on detail that the production team of the show created that feeling. So you really feel like you're in this kind of

[01:48:23] situation on the edge of civilization.

[01:48:25] Makes sense to me.

[01:48:27] That's why he needs a SpongeBob truth for us. And I always think about that with stuff like this. Kim wraps up. I still think it was Navarro that shot Wheeler. Bing, Bing, Bing, Bing. You win some internet points. Or did she go catat- Talonik because she saw a ghost causing Wheeler to lunch for her gun and Danvers had to shoot him. But then why would they need to cover up? We know that they're both capable of covering up a crime scene.

[01:49:42] And now, so it's prior.

[01:49:44] I'm on the edge of my seat waiting for the finale.

[01:49:46] Love the coverage, you know, we may not respond to those emails because we're constantly running

[01:51:00] to stay up to coverage.

[01:51:01] So I invite you to the Discord,

[01:51:04] come onto the Wheel of Time channel.

[01:51:05] There are people there who will love to chat with you further I heard yep, and we never talked about Navarro's Christmas tree trigger the night her sister died goes from that to the next realization that his dad broken his into his computer to steal evidence about Liz. camera work here. Yep. Saying to her good friend, a woman is dead. Which woman? Wheeler's wife? Any? Both? All the dead women? I found that moment sad and very moving. That friendship is dead. And that's what their sex scene gave us their friendship. This was

[01:55:03] it was set up for. You just reminded me of a line from the opportunity to grow. It gives them the opportunity to have agency. It gives them the opportunity to see how they. Hello, hello, Alicia. Alicia, I think is the right way. I found your podcast at the beginning of the True Detective Night Country and have really enjoyed listening to your episodes and your thoughts on your show. Well, thank you. Thanks for writing in. Thanks for taking the time. I'm currently listening

[01:57:41] to your most recent episode or recent podcast episode five with a few thoughts and info that might help may be hot right afterwards when put into the urn due to the friction it takes for the bones to become ash. Navarro got to see the after part, removing the bones, grinding them, etc., which usually doesn't happen. Family members can be present for the beginning of the cremation. Once the furnace starts, it can take up to three hours, depending on the size of the body, and the rest of the process is usually done away from family and transitions. And so to have, I was really, it was a bit of a head scratcher for me when I first saw it, but I think in the totality, it's a really beautiful scene. And I think it just adds a lot to this conversation about life and death that the whole show is dealing with.

[02:00:22] Yeah, I think so too. Oh, thanks for writing in.

[02:00:24] Mattie's gonna close us out now.

[02:00:26] Mattie says, great coverage of True Detective. Well, magic bacteria didn't go once. Well, it did factor in. In my opinion, the show is about the characters period. Totally agree. So Danvers sex scene. Here we go. Sex scene. Why is everyone I knew? I maybe I should mention a sex scene here. I hate sex scenes. Yeah, everybody write it now. Jones and monster. Yeah, I'm a monster who hates sex scenes.

[02:01:41] Well, again, I don't hate all sex scenes.

[02:01:43] I hate points.

[02:01:45] Just even just move on with the feedback.

[02:01:46] All right. All right.

[02:01:47] All right.

[02:02:50] right? It's just a schmear of that stuff. And it's one schmear and it serves to create a context for the development of our characters for them to move through these spaces and to discover things about themselves and the resolution of the

[02:02:59] mystery is the resolution for the character, right even though I've had a great time. It's a lot. It's just been a lot of work, you know Yeah, it's a it's a big effort, but it's been a fun effort and and I'm really I really hope that HBO can Figure out to you know what shows to put on in sort of January February time frame because I love starting off with a

[02:04:25] Real chunky mister 2025. I think oh, I hope so And that was a lot of fun. We talked for like 45 minutes now before we even hop down to another topic. Talk about like other shows we're watching, games we're playing, books we're reading. Take a listen to our feedback. We talk about a random movie every month, the old man movies, and then my series of movies that has no name. So it's a lot of fun. It's a lot of fun.

[02:05:40] I go through the letters of Jare Tolkien

[02:05:42] with my Shire Side chats,

[02:05:44] and we have a good community. series at some point too. So that should be fun. Yeah. We've got Star Wars movies coming up that we're going to talk about. We're talking about a new Hope next. You could already catch our coverage on the first like eight movies. That's our Star Wars film festival. We're watching them all in order. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. We're reading the Earth Sea book by K. Le Guin. The book we're going to be reading actually the,

[02:07:00] what is it, the fifth book? Yep. Yep. The other wind.

[02:07:03] So we're going to record that next week with Maryland.

[02:07:05] So that'll be out in a couple of weeks.

[02:08:03] Moving forward, so hopefully we'll have some fresh coverage on that. And then Alicia and I are working on some Oscars stuff.

[02:08:07] We've got some things in the works for that.

[02:08:10] Well, every episode we give a quick thank you to all our Patreon Loremasters.

[02:08:15] They're top tier.

[02:08:16] They get a shout out as part of their benefits.

[02:08:18] David, hit me with the list.

[02:08:20] Summarshan, Mark H, Michael G, Michelle E, David W, Brian P, Nick W, S C, Peter O H,