What If...? S3 (MCUniverse)

[00:00:24] Hello and welcome to Comics vs. A Lorehounds Podcast. I'm Alicia. And I'm Jean. And we're here to ask the question, what if? In this episode, we're specifically talking about Season 3 of the Marvel Animated Alternate Reality Show. To catch up, we definitely encourage you to go back and check out our recap episodes for Seasons 1 and 2, which are linked in the show notes.

[00:00:48] We're going to start today with some spoiler-free hot takes, which might include spoilers from the first two seasons for anyone considering whether they want to watch the final season. Then we're going to recap the episodes, talk about what we like, and what it all means for the bigger MCU picture going into the final phase of the Marvel Multiverse era. Stick around until the end to hear about our upcoming Marvel DC and other coverage.

[00:01:15] And yeah, so Jean, we have eight episodes to talk about, so let's get right into it. Spoiler-free hot takes. What did you think of this season? I enjoyed it. I enjoyed the singular episodes more than I enjoyed the overall story that they were telling. Okay. So, yeah, there were standout episodes for me that I will watch over and over again, most likely.

[00:01:45] But I felt like the story underneath all the things that they're trying to tie in for this season, I thought that it was the weakest of the three seasons. Okay. For me, yeah. Yeah, I thought this was a fun wrap-up. It did feel a little more slight to me than the first two seasons, but there was some excellent lore, and I thought it put a nice little bow around the story.

[00:02:12] I hated that they, again, like last year, did the daily drops between December 23rd and 29th. You didn't like it. I really think that it hurt the show doing that these past two seasons, because who has time to watch a new episode every day over the holidays, you know? My eight-year-old. It's for adults. It's for adults. We were up. He was like, yo, it's time. Let's go. The what? Every day. Every day he was like, let's go.

[00:02:42] It's time. Let's watch it. That's probably why they do it. Yeah, they do it. Whereas, meanwhile, I'm, you know, with my family, I can't watch really, like, it's rare. I have to really hold my animated requests for something special that I think they'll love, because we watched Doctor Who together. That was one episode. That's doable. Yeah, that's doable. But yeah, so I actually was expecting nine episodes this season.

[00:03:09] I just had it in my head that it was going to be nine episodes, like the last two seasons, until we're almost done with episode eight. And I'm like, this really feels like it's wrapping up here. I don't know what they can possibly do in the next episode. And then it ends. And I was like, oh, yeah, okay. But yeah, it was a fun season. It was a fun season. Who would you recommend this season or this series to? Anyone, actually.

[00:03:38] I don't think you need to be well-versed with Marvel lore, characters, previous stories to enjoy any of these seasons. I really don't. Yeah, some of the things might fly over one's head.

[00:03:57] But I just felt like the episodes that I really liked from this season were just so cool and fun that you wouldn't need to know much about the overall MCU in order to enjoy what you're watching on the screen. So I would definitely recommend for anyone who enjoys animation, who enjoys superhero stuff, to check it out. Because it's, yeah, it's just fun. Yeah.

[00:04:27] Yeah, I think if there are some episodes that I would say you can just watch that episode not having seen anything else. Even if it's a continuation of a previous episode, like for instance, the one with Howard the Duck this season. That was picking up on something that happened another season, but you don't need to know that. Right, exactly. Yeah. Some of them, though, like the season finale stuff of any of the seasons, that's definitely building, that's pulling together story from previous episodes.

[00:04:55] So you don't have to have watched the rest of Marvel, but to watch the season finales of the various seasons, it's probably best you've watched. Oh, yeah, yeah. You should definitely do that. But I don't think you need to, like you said, watch the other Marvel shows or movies to enjoy the episodes from What If. No, I mean, and I'm saying some of them you don't even need to have watched the other episodes of this show. Right, exactly. Yeah, that's true too. What were your favorite episodes this season?

[00:05:25] Spoiler for you. Two and three. Mm-hmm. Two and three. So two was the Agatha one. Agatha and Kingo and Bucky and Red Guardian. Is the three, yeah. Yeah. I guess minus two also, no surprise. I get that in old Hollywood. Yes, please sign me up. And I think the other one was four. Really? With like, yeah.

[00:05:49] Yeah, we got a really strong couple, surprisingly so, especially making up for a certain movie from my childhood. And we got a new character that I think is really interesting, although we saw that character more later in the season. Right, right. Yeah, Birdie, that is, for anyone who's heard of Birdie.

[00:06:10] Yeah, but I mean, overall, I think I probably, the show overall for me had somewhat diminishing returns per season, although that's not necessarily fair because some of my all-time faves were last season. And also, yeah, there were some really, those two were real standouts for me this season as well. Okay. And I always, I love Kahori, the original character. You know, I love Birdie now, the original character.

[00:06:40] I think this show has added a lot to Marvel storytelling. Yeah, it has. It has. Shout out Kahori for getting a comic. So that's just really cool stuff too. But, yeah, I think the show did a great job of highlighting different characters and showing what storytelling can be, you know, by flipping things around, which is what What If formula has always been.

[00:07:05] So, yeah, I just, I felt like, again, this season's overarching story was not the strongest of the three. But still enjoyable, less. Yeah. Yeah, and apparently people generally agreed with that because it got an 81% approval rating on Rotten Tomatoes. So, for this season, for this season it is. Right, not surprising.

[00:07:33] Well, any other spoiler free thoughts you want to throw out before we get into it? No, just some, again, lots of fun. There's some, you know, howling, laughing out loud moments that I enjoyed. And, again, my eight-year-old was up early each day saying it's time. So, take it from the mouth of a babe, you know?

[00:08:02] Just, yeah, you'll enjoy it if you give it a shot. Do you think there's a minimum age for this show for kids? Yes, I do. I think eight might be a good starting point because he hasn't watched fully the first two seasons. They came out when he was, you know, like, what, six, five, seven.

[00:08:28] So, he's watched clips of those, but he hasn't, he has yet to watch the entire, an entire episode from one of those first seasons. And this is the first time that we've actually sat down and watched the entire episodes. Okay. So, I think maybe this eight-year-old phase is a good starting jumping off point, at least for mine. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, of course. Mileage may vary depending on the day. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:08:56] I was always, I always had a permissive appearance when it came to that, but I'm glad because I love horror movies now. Yeah, there you go. Yeah. All right. Well, so that is our spoiler-free hot takes. If that's all you wanted to hear, then this is your opportunity to jump out because we're about to get into the season itself. We're going to be, we're going to talk through briefly each of the eight episodes. Um, just, uh, we're going to recap the plot and what happened.

[00:09:25] Um, we're going to be borrowing some amended recaps from Wikipedia. So, thank you. And do send Wikipedia financial support if you can. They make all of our lives richer and easier also as podcasters, but just as people's home too. Um, just to run through some of the background information. So, the head writer this season is Matthew Chauncey, who is taking over from AC Bradley. And Chauncey wrote a bunch of our favorite previous episodes, like the Star-Lord T'Challa episode from season one.

[00:09:55] Yes. Yes. And he also wrote episodes for Ms. Marvel, et cetera. Um. We love the show, so. Yes. And we love that show. And, uh, Ryan Little was also heavily involved in creating the stories, uh, for the season. He worked on a lot of Marvel stuff in various capacities. Uh, but this is his second set of writing credits after I am Groot, which has a Watcher crossover. The directors. Yeah. I am Groot, by the way, that is for like little babies. Yes. It's cute.

[00:10:25] And the directors this season is Brian Andrews, who's been the head director for most seasons. Most of the series, um, Stephen Frank did one episode last season, the Nebula and the Nova Corps episode. But this season, he did half of them. Episodes one, four, five, seven, and co-directed six. And that's because Brian Andrews was also busy, uh, directing Marvel Zombies episodes, which, uh, we're going to talk more about Marvel Zombies in our, um, MCU 2025 preview episode.

[00:10:56] Looking forward to that one. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, um, Stephen Frank though. He also worked in the art and animation departments of productions like iron giant and into the spider verse. So strong animation pedigree. The animation was done by flying bark productions and stellar creative lab. And the head of animation was Scott, right? So episode one, what if the Hulk fought the Mech Avengers?

[00:11:24] Do you want to give us our plot summary? Yeah, let's go. In an attempt to rid himself of the Hulk, Bruce Banner bombards himself with a huge amount of gamma radiation, accidentally resulting in the birth of a monstrous creature known as the Apex. A rampaging Kaju capable of creating an army of gamma monsters. The Avengers create enormous Mechas to counter the threat, but are outnumbered and killed.

[00:11:49] The surviving heroes, Sam Wilson, Captain America, Monica Rambeau, a cleaned up Bucky Barnes, Mark Spector, the Moon Knight, Red Guardian, Alexei, Milena, Vostakov, there we go. So, Shang-Chi, and Nakia from Wakanda. Eventually repel the gamma monsters for the next 10 years. When the Apex re-emerges, a reluctant Wilson seeks help from Banner, who lives in hiding on a remote island.

[00:12:18] Banner refuses to get involved, though he provides Wilson with the Mighty Avenger Protocol, which he originally created to stop the Hulk. Using the protocol, the heroes' mechs combine into one powerful mech, the Apex, but the Apex is still too much for them. Banner decides to assist the team and uses a gamma bomb to become a Godzilla-like mega-hulk. He kills the Apex and heads towards New York with his army.

[00:12:44] However, Sam Wilson reminds him of their friendship, prompting Banner to lead the remaining gamma monsters to his island, where he becomes their new ruler. New, I call him, yeah, Hulkzilla. And really quick, just for everyone out there, I live in Brooklyn, New York. It's really cold. You might hear my radiator in the background. It's the radiator, folks.

[00:13:13] I'm trying to stay warm. I'm already sick. I'm dealing with a lot of stuff here, but I don't want to deal with the cold. So you might be hearing a little hissing sounds in the background, but it's a good old New York City radiator heating of our home. Yeah, we don't want a Jean-Sickel, so. What did you think about this one? To open up the season.

[00:13:41] Yeah, I mean, I liked it more than I thought, because this isn't one, like, I'm not one of the ones that's into the, I don't know, mech battle sort of thing. Like, you know, it can be cool. It's just not, you know, necessarily my particular subgenre that I'm into. But I thought that this was a fun episode. I loved the retro style opening, like that they had that animation within the animation. Yeah. And they showed us about, like, the Avengers history in this universe in that way.

[00:14:10] I thought that was really smart and really cool. I like to see some variation in the animation. What did you think? I was pleasantly surprised that I liked it as much as I did. I didn't think it was, you know, super duper, but I thought it was cool. When they formed the Ultron, the Voltron Avengers, that was cool.

[00:14:38] Yeah, but, you know, overall, I give it a, it was solid. It was, it's what What If is really about. Yeah. If I can say it that way, you know, What If is supposed to be out there concepts, you know, things that you would never think of. And I never thought I would see, you know, a Hulkzilla. So really, really cool. I wish that they had made the Monster Hulk a little bit more Hulk than Godzilla.

[00:15:09] That's my only quibble with how they portrayed, you know, Banner's new persona. So I thought that was a little, a little misstep because it felt more like I'm watching Godzilla than I was watching the Hulk, you know? And so, but overall, I thought it was cool. Yeah, I thought that on that front that I liked the parallel, for example, with Loki, you know, that he becomes the guardian.

[00:15:37] He has to give up his life to protect everyone else. And now that's basically how we see Bruce ending this episode with his mega Hulk goes critical. I mean, that's deep. I didn't even get there. Yeah, that's, damn. Wow. That's some deep thought right there. Shit. Okay. You know what?

[00:16:01] I like what if episodes when they do start with like a definite point that we recognize and flip it and, you know, and riff from there. So here we got that famous on your left meeting where Cap meets his new bestie. But in this case, it's not Steve Rogers meeting Sam Wilson. It's Sam Wilson's Cap meeting Bruce Banner. Yeah, that was, that was fun. That was a nice little twist right there. Yeah.

[00:16:28] But I have to point out that, so Bruce starts to go to Sam's therapy, but if his therapy taught Bruce that he needs to sever his dark side, that if that's what Bruce walked away thinking, then that was some shit therapy Sam. Yeah. Sam is not the guy that you want to go talk to, man. That's not how we handle our problems. Okay. He's not the guy you want to, you know, have an emotional heart to heart with.

[00:16:54] He might not give you the best advice on how to follow through, man. Cause yeah, that was whack. That was definitely whack. But then we wouldn't have gotten the dawn of the gamma war and that's just a, that should be the title of a movie. It should be a title of a movie. That would be a great movie. Yeah. I thought it was a cool origin story for this apex and it's legions, you know, gamma removal gone wrong.

[00:17:22] And yeah, I thought it was a really cool premise and it wasn't necessarily, neither of us listed it as our favorite episode, but it was fun. No, it was fine for what it was. But again, I just wish that the Hulk was more, Hulkzilla was more Hulk thanzilla. You know? Okay. So yeah, that was my, that's my quibble. That's fair. That's fair. Any more thoughts on this episode? Nah, that's really about it. And I think even E was just like, ah, it's okay. It's not bad.

[00:17:52] Yeah. Okay. So should we move on to our favorite? Yeah, let's go. What if Agatha went to Hollywood? Um, Agatha Harkness plans to enact a magical ritual to siphon the power of Tiamat, the celestial buried in the Earth's core. In order to do so, she becomes an actress during the golden age of Hollywood in stars and films directed by Howard Stark.

[00:18:15] Harkness has Stark cast Kingo, the final eternal she needs for her spell to work, as she has already taken the other eternal's powers. Kingo reveals that he knows of Harkness' true plans, but decides to help after she pretends her desire is to save the world and agrees to release the Eternals once the ritual is complete. Witnessing Kingo's betrayal, Arishem decides to destroy the Earth, motivating Harkness and Kingo to enact the ritual upon the celestial's arrival.

[00:18:43] With help from Stark and Edwin Jarvis, Harkness takes Kingo's and Tiamat's power and becomes a celestial. After defeating Arishem, Kingo convinces Harkness to give up the celestial power in favor of joining him in the movie business for real. During the premiere of their movie, Cosmic Queen. Cosmic Queen.

[00:19:04] Kingo knows that the release Eternals are worried that Arishem's defeat has drawn the other celestial's attention, but Harkness ensures him that they can be saved for the sequel. And why did you like this episode so much? Ah, just, it was so much fun. It was so much fun. The dancing sequences, the singing sequences. I had E next to me. We were both like, oh, this is so cool. You know?

[00:19:35] The visual style, just everything about it was really cool to watch. And her transformation into this, you know, celestial fighting Arishem was just, that was spectacle. That was great. That really was great. So the back and forth she had with Kingo was a lot of fun. Howard Stark being, you know, like this Howard Hughes type of character was really cool as well.

[00:20:04] It was just well done. It was really well done. It was well voice acted. The writing was crisp. It was, you know, really in tune with the period that they were trying to portray. Yeah. And I think that, again, you know, the singing and the dancing, I didn't know I would enjoy it that much. That whole scene, you know, when they're going back and forth, that was just really great. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:20:32] The back and forth like that was definitely a Bollywood influence thing, I think. Yeah. It's like Michael Jackson's beat it. Yeah. It was very cool. Yeah. I mean, my only nitpick is that I felt like the animation of the dance sequences showed some animation shortcuts being taken, but that's just really like nitpicking. This was, I felt like this, this episode was literally made for me. We've got Agatha, we've got the Eternals, we've got old Hollywood.

[00:21:00] You know, we've got those, those references to Bogey, Gable, Cary Grant. No, Kingo. So that just also like paints. We know Kingo's been this movie star for what everyone thinks is generations. You know, they don't realize it's the same guy. Right. But this just paints like what a big deal he is, was, you know, up alongside those others. I always love to see Jarvis back. Yeah.

[00:21:28] I thought it was cool that they, you know, were combining the witchcraft with the celestials. There was a lot of, there were several times this season where they're like, let's combine these different sorts of powers together and maybe achieve something greater through that. We'll talk about that more toward the end. But I liked that. I just, yeah, the visuals, the story, just well paced. Yeah, it was really, it was really fun. And I said, beat it.

[00:21:56] I don't know about, excuse me, all the Michael fans, but I was thinking of Thriller. Oh, yeah. Yeah, fair. The song and the video. So if you have that in your, have that image in your mind, then you'll understand what I'm talking about. Yeah. With the back and forth. Yeah. So I don't know if this was intentional because I know, you know, old Hollywood, Agatha was doing a sort of like old Hollywood glam look.

[00:22:22] But the way she was dressed with the big headdress reminded me of certain depictions I've seen of the Whore of Babylon, which is a biblical reference. And I'm no Bible scholar, but basically like in the book of Revelations, they, it is said that the quote unquote whore of Babylon who, you know, sort of wants to be queen of the universe and basically symbolizes Western powers like Rome.

[00:22:51] And that's kind of like, you know, that she would be defeated basically and destroyed. And that's the destruction of Babylon. But anyway, and that's kind of, there's some parallel to what happened in this. Although Kingo, of course, helped her avert that fate at the end. So I don't know if that's intentional, but I thought I'd shout it out. But I did notice. So if Kingo got his way, like, of course, you know, we're like Agatha bad, but if Kingo got his way, he would be protecting the being that would destroy the earth in the emergence.

[00:23:20] So I'm like, I don't know who to, I don't know who to root for here. Like, I know she's going to do something wrong, but. I mean, you know, that's, that's the thing with, with the Eternals. It's from what we know in the MCU. And now that they know what they know, I'm talking about from the movie, how does that play out, you know, further?

[00:23:41] But in this what if, maybe they don't have an affinity for the planet as we learned in the movie that they clearly do have an affinity for the planet. You know what I mean? Well, Kingo must because he's still doing that whole movie star thing. But then again, we always see Kingo running away. Yeah, basically. Yeah. Yeah. That's why he's the last eternal standing. And so because of that, Arsham, who's the celestial, who like is their boss, put them, put him in charge.

[00:24:09] So he knows about Tima. Now he knows that they're actually robots, these things that only the prime eternal knows. But when he materializes in earth space, like how cool was that? Yeah. You know what I mean? That was just so, that was just awesome. That was just awesome. Yeah. And it's cool. Agatha collected the eternal's powers and said they're in storage. But then, okay.

[00:24:37] So toward the end, with Kingo's blessing, she took his power without killing him, but he didn't blast her for her to take it. So this contradicts Agatha all along rules, but I'm just, you know, probably this was written at the same time or before that. So just going to look through my fingers at that. It's a what if. It's a what if. Yeah. And there was other little things. I was like, you know, they kept filming. You know, Howard is just loving all of this actual celestial battle going on. And he just keeps filming and filming.

[00:25:06] I'm like, don't you need to change film reels? I mean, he is Howard Stark. So you don't know what kind of film he had in the camera, right? Who knows? Who knows? It's just an infinity film. It's an extraordinary. Exactly. Yeah. I thought it was cute. It was very like, you know, I'm into the awards movies and stuff, Oscar season coming up soon. Um, but so I watch a lot of movies about movies and they genuinely do.

[00:25:36] And the way this does like movies change the world by changing people. You don't have to be feared. You can be adored. Celestial Agatha is truly a star. Yes, she was. She was. Yeah. I, the cheesy ending worked for me. It was just perfect for that genre that they were going for in that episode. Yeah. That's what I mean. I think they were very true to the period that they were trying to portray. Um, and I appreciated that. I thought it was well done. Yeah, I agree. I agree.

[00:26:05] But then we got that tease. More celestials were arriving and I was disappointed that we didn't get more of this. I thought we would get more of this story later, especially since I saw a later episode was called had emergence in the title. And I was like, Oh, Oh, it's not at no more Agatha. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I thought I definitely thought that they were saving something for the end of the season. Yeah. Yeah. I think that that made the end of the season hit a little less for me just because I was anticipating this other ending to the season.

[00:26:34] And I'm like, Oh no, it's, we want a Wattu story and this wraps up other stuff, but it feels like we dropped this other really interesting shiny ball that you showed to me at the beginning of the season. Which I thought was a better story personally. Could have been a better story. Yeah. I wonder if that was going to be the ending and then they're like, well, actually you're not going to get another season after this. So you better wrap up the whole series and like, Oh, okay. Interesting. That would be unfortunate if it's that. Yeah.

[00:27:04] It does feel like they just kind of burn this off at the end. When we talk about the MCU preview, we're getting a lot of animation this year. That's been worked on for a while. And I feel like they're just kind of burning it off. Cause maybe other than X-Men 97, I don't know that the animation is doing as well as they'd hoped. Although don't release it in December over the holidays one day. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. TV is so crowded these days though. There's so much.

[00:27:34] There's so much. I took a look at the show tracker. Oh my gosh. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I stopped even making suggestions for it because I'm like, it's too full. My own private list is too full. Yeah. It's going to be quite a year. All right. Any more thoughts on episode two? No, just watch it. If you don't watch any episode, make this the one that you watch. Yeah. For me. Indeed. Yeah. And you don't really need to have watched any others with this one. Yeah.

[00:28:03] You can just watch this one as it's down alone. Yeah. This is a good place to take a quick break. And when we come back, we'll talk about Jean's other favorite episode. And then my other favorite episode. See you in a sec.

[00:28:33] Episode three. What if the Red Guardian stopped the Winter Soldier? So in 1991, Alexei Shostakov and Bucky Barnes as the Winter Soldier are sent to recover a case of super soldier serum from Howard and Maria Stark. Shostakov prevents Barnes from killing the Starks, and they only acquire one vial of the serum.

[00:28:53] With no extraction, the duo tracks an American sleeper agent called The Rook to Las Vegas for transportation while evading the authorities and Dr. Bill Foster, a.k.a. Goliath, head of the Shield Science Division. Draykov secretly orders Barnes to kill Shostakov, who has become a liability. In Las Vegas, Shostakov and Barnes discover that the Rook is Obadiah Stain, who provides the Russians with information about the serum in order to eliminate the Starks from the market.

[00:29:22] Stain attacks the duo, but is killed by Barnes. As the authorities and a task force sent by the Red Room swarm the area, Barnes buys Shostakov, who destroys the last vial of the serum, time to escape. Sometime later, Barnes is taken back to Hydra's base in Siberia, where he insists to Draykov that Shostakov is dead. Meanwhile, Foster approaches Shostakov and offers him a chance to help the United States once again. 21 years later, Shostakov is seen fighting alongside the Avengers in the Battle of New York.

[00:29:53] This was so fun. Yeah. Yeah. This was so fun. I love Red Guardian. And yeah, he's just, he should be in every movie. Right. Put David Harbour in all of them. Put him in all the movies. Put him in all the movies because he brings, you know, the Thor character, the Chris Evans, Thor character, Chris Evans. The, what's his name?

[00:30:23] Chris Hemsworth. Chris Hemsworth. His Thor character brings a levity to the movies. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I think Red Guardian brings a similar level of hilarity to the scene. Right. And I just want to see more of that. Mm-hmm. You know, I want to see more of him because I think he's great. Yeah. I'm looking forward to the Thunderbolts for that reason. Yes, for that reason.

[00:30:53] Absolutely. Um, this was a cool buddy, you know, on the road type of adventure. And I, again, this was the second of my favorite episodes. I just liked the back and forth that him and Bucky had, how they, you know, his soul, he was so, what's the word I'm looking for? Disillusion? Mm-hmm. Well, he had such a view of the world.

[00:31:22] And for it to come down the way that it came down was really, was really cool. It was really cool to see how when he bust into the, into Stane's office and he realized that Stane is not, you know, trying to overthrow the government, you know, and that his own government is, is partaking in the spoils of capitalism. He's like, what, you know, it's just like, yeah, it was great. Good stuff. It was good. Yeah.

[00:31:51] No, he's, uh, David Harbour is so brilliant at delivering such a range of personas too, but this red guardian persona is a lot of fun. And, uh, and teaming it up with someone stoic, like the winter soldier version of Bucky, especially it's a funny buddy cop duo or buddy criminal duo, I guess. Criminals. Yeah. Spy duo, whatever, however you want to call them. And it was nice to get bill Foster. Yeah. On screen, you know, anytime I get black heroes on screen, I want to see more of them.

[00:32:21] So that was, it was awesome. Um, I wonder if he'll show up in thunderbolts because he was last seen as like the guardian of, of ghost who is going to be on. Yes. Yes. So yeah, without the, but he didn't have his, we didn't see Goliath. Yeah. We didn't see him do his superpowers. Yeah. Yeah. Because he used to work with, so for anyone who doesn't know, he worked with Hank Pym. So he also has the size control technology. That's why. In the main MCU universe.

[00:32:51] Mm hmm. Yeah. For those folks out there. Right. Right. Yeah. We don't know about this universe per se, but, um, this, so this was the episode that was delayed from season two. Like, so basically they, each season had an episode that was delayed, which created a knock on effect. And, uh, I thought that's, that's why I thought we were going to get nine again, but apparently not. Yeah.

[00:33:14] And, but it does reference the fact that, uh, that the red guardian was going to be sent to be undercover as a senior, senior data input manager in Ohio. Ohio. Which is, yeah. But I, it seems like he was not, he didn't raise Natasha in this universe. We got no, not even at the end, we got no reference to her. So. No, no. So she's somewhere else in that universe. Yeah. Which is a shame because my favorite thing.

[00:33:40] And what I hope to, what I'm looking forward to seeing more of since Yelena is in Thunderbolts is that family dynamic that they created with the four of them. Yeah. That was the best part of the black widow. Oh yeah. The black widow movie. Yeah. Movie. Movie. Yeah. Um, I went from Bucky. I did think that he was a bit more conversational than I would expect given his current brainwashing, but I understand it's a cartoon. Um, but I did think it was a funny recurring thing. Funny. Ha ha. What?

[00:34:10] Uh, in a dark way, I guess that Alexi keeps trying to prevent Bucky from killing people. He's like, stop, stop trying to kill people. That's not the answer. Shooting again. But Bucky, you know, after he prevents him from killing, um, Tony's parents, he's like mission failure. I never fail.

[00:34:28] But don't you think out of anything that all the horrible things that, um, Bucky was forced to do as the winter soldier, isn't killing the Starks kind of the one that haunts him the most later in life in, in the main universe? Um, I don't know. I don't know. Because we haven't seen the depths that he's gone through. What he had to do.

[00:34:55] The only thing that we know that he did specifically was, you know, kill Tony's parents. Right. Well, we saw him, he also killed someone else he was feeling guilty about in Falcon and the Winter Soldier who's trying to make amends. But this literally started a civil war or at least perpetuated a civil war. I mean, you know, civil war was all Tony Stark's fault. That is, you know, it wasn't. I mean, you're not wrong. Yeah.

[00:35:22] So, but yeah, I think, and to your point, I think, I don't think that death in killing Tony's parents, I don't think that's what haunted them the most from what we've seen on screen. I think it is the death that you spoke about in the Falcon Winter Soldier TV show. Mm-hmm. It seemed to me that one weighed way more on his conscience than what happened with Tony's parents. Yeah.

[00:35:48] Maybe it's also because that one got the TV treatment and the other one was like jam-packed into a movie. That's exactly what I'm saying. Yeah. That's exactly what I'm saying because they gave it, you know, room to breathe. Mm-hmm. Right? So it was portrayed in a way that it had a profound effect on him in a way that I don't think I saw in Civil War. Mm-hmm. Yeah. No, that's fair. That's fair. What did you think of, it's not even mentioned in the recap, she didn't play much of a role.

[00:36:17] I was expecting more, but we got a new character from America Ferrara called Ranger Morales. Yeah. She was cool. She was fun. Yeah. I wouldn't mind seeing more of her. Mm-hmm. Yeah. If they give her some sort of backstory or they make her into something else, I think that would be a nice little thing to have. Yeah. I like the actress a lot, so I'm happy to see her show up.

[00:36:44] I also loved that Red Guardian and Bucky got that Thelma and Louise moment going off the cliff. That was cool. I love their whole bonding thing. Like when they went to Coney Island, or he helped him, Bucky, remember a Coney Island memory. And then after all of that bonding, then Dreykov's like, okay, now kill your new bestie. And it's like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I wish they had showed us how he got recaptured.

[00:37:14] That's the one thing that I wish we had seen. Yeah. Because it went from- We saw he got brainwashed again because they did the words. So he was recaptured. But even when he got brainwashed again- He still chose Alexei. Exactly. And Alexei was able to get away, but Bucky wasn't. So I would have loved to see how that happened. Yeah. Yeah. And what did you think of the dude? I mean, I'm sorry, Obadiah Stane showing up? That was unexpected.

[00:37:44] He was the Rook, the American sleeper agent. Yeah. I mean, I can't complain about the voice acting in this series. I really can't. I think everyone was just- They killed it. Mm-hmm. They killed it. You know, Stane was remarkably on point.

[00:38:12] Like, as soon as they bust into the room, I was like, oh, he has to go. You know what I mean? I was like, they got to get this guy out of here. They got to get him out. Like, immediately, just the way that he was talking and the way that he- The persona, the animation, how they portrayed him. I was like, yeah, they got to get this guy out of here. He's obviously up to no good. Yeah. So I thought the voice acting portrayed that, and it was great. Do you think this means-

[00:38:40] So in this, he was sort of inadvertently involved in the killing of Tony Stark's parents. Do you think that's also true in the 616 universe? The MCU universe, main universe? Huh. No. No? Not from what we see- I'm inclined to say yes. Yeah? Yeah. I mean, because he was always pretending to be an ally, but secretly stabbing in the back. Yeah.

[00:39:13] No, I need more evidence in the main MCU. Okay. Okay. All right. And then we get that time jump forward, and Goliath invites Red Guardian to join the Avengers, and he's with them many years later in the Battle of New York. But I need to know what happened in between, because wasn't he a target still? So I guess he stopped being a target because Dreykov was defeated? Maybe.

[00:39:42] But again, I think there's so many stories that they- Like, that whole story could be a season. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Like, and I don't think that's the story that they wanted to tell, so they cut it off. You know? Which is why I'm saying I wish we had seen how Bucky got captured and recaptured.

[00:40:07] And you're saying you wish you had seen what happened between, you know, the time that they jumped and that flash forward, you know? Yeah. And it's a function of not telling that story and choosing to tell Watu's story, I think. Yeah. Yeah, maybe, because maybe they were going to bring it together for a different season ending. That's what I'm saying. It's such a shame. Yeah. I think so.

[00:40:34] We could have kept going with this series forever. Could have. I wish they would have. I know. I wish they would have. I think giving it three seasons is, you know, it's three seasons that I'm glad that we got. Sure. But I wish we had more. Yeah. Yeah. And I do get the feeling from this final season that they didn't know until after they were well into development that this was going to be their last. Be their last. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's a shame.

[00:41:05] Ah, well, any more thoughts about episode three? No, no. All right. So now we move on to my other favorite, which is what if Howard the Duck got hitched? So during Thor's party on Earth, Howard the Duck marries Darcy Lewis and they have a baby that takes the form of an egg. One day they are randomly awarded two tickets to the Grandmaster's Grand Cruise across the stars.

[00:41:28] But once there, he takes their egg and attempts to cook it for the Grandmaster's Grandmaster's Grandmaster's Grandmaster's Grandmaster.

[00:41:59] And they're going to take the egg. And they're going to take the egg. And they're going to take the egg for Dormammu. And they're going to take the egg for safekeeping.

[00:42:39] So what did you think of this one, John? You didn't love it as much as me. I'm not a Howard the Duck guy. I'm just going to put that out there. I'm not a Howard the Duck guy. I stomach Howard the Duck. But I'm not a Howard the Duck fanatic. But it was like a caper.

[00:43:09] And I enjoyed that. I enjoyed the chase. I enjoyed Loki way more than I should enjoy Loki. I like this version of Loki a lot from this what if series. So I enjoyed Loki. I enjoyed Zeus a lot.

[00:43:32] But I have to say, I saw in E's eyes when they're talking about the egg as their baby. I saw in his eyes like, hey, man, what's going on here? And I will admit, I did not broach the topic. I did not try to explain it. Like, duck, lady, egg, baby. I kept my mouth shut.

[00:44:01] Kept my head forward on the TV and pretending like I wasn't noticing that he was noticing that something is off here. When a duck and a lady meet and they love each other very, very much. No, no, no. I didn't do any of that stuff. I stayed clear. I stayed clear of his view. And I was just like, let's get through this thing.

[00:44:30] I was just in my head. When is this going to end? Let's get through it. And, yeah, so that's where I'm at with it. All right. It was a fun caper. You know, it was a fun chase. But one, I'm not a Howard the Duck fanatic. And two, I was desperately trying to avoid explaining to E about the baby duck and the egg with the lady and the duck.

[00:45:00] So that's where I'm at with it. I mean, I get that. I mean, I'm not going to call myself a Howard the Duck fanatic. But I do have two reasons why I have a certain affection for him. The first being that admittedly terrible movie from my childhood. He was with also Leah Thompson. And I always loved Leah Thompson. She was there. But that was so awkward. And that was a duck human romance done wrong.

[00:45:30] And this was actually a really healthy couple. Like, they are hashtag couple goals. Like, I want a partner like that in life. That's a duck human romance done wrong. Yes, and this is done right. That is the implication. Obviously. Even worse. I never thought I would hear.

[00:45:58] Obviously, the other reason my other great affection for Howard the Duck is that who is he best friends with in the comics? Man thing. Go ahead. Say it. Go ahead. It's man thing. He and man thing are buddies in the comics. So, but yeah, that's basically why I've read a good amount of Howard the Duck.

[00:46:20] But you know what else I liked about this episode is like, I remember the Thor Party Prince episode thinking it was maybe the weakest of its season. It just seemed like such a throwaway episode. And it just happened. And it was, I love Darcy, by the way. She's like her. Yeah, so do I. I was glad to see her back. And I was glad to see her back in that episode.

[00:46:42] And then there was like this random background running joke about her and Howard the Duck getting, you know, all you can eat nachos and then winding up getting married in that big drunken party that lasted forever. And it was just kind of like throwaway joke in a throwaway episode, it felt like. But actually that episode keeps coming back and including this part now. I laughed all the time when they kept referring to them as the ducks.

[00:47:16] It's always good to see Phil Coulson and Nick Fury, although I'll admit even Nick Fury shine wore off a little bit in the show that cannot be named restored a little bit after that in the Marvels. Yeah. A little bit. Not a whole lot much. Mm-hmm. Yeah, but I feel a little differently after that show that cannot be named, which is not, well, I was going to say it's not his fault, but actually. It is his fault. He was the producer. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:47:43] I don't think, though, he's the one who fired the good showrunner and put in the, anyway. You can review those episodes if you want to hear more. Yeah, we're done talking about that. Topaz was back. Not the witch from the comics, who I don't know if they can introduce the witch Topaz into this universe because they've taken this other Topaz from an alternate universe from the comics, which is she's the one with the melty stick with the Grandmaster. Yes.

[00:48:11] I always like to see nowhere, that dead celestial head they use as a base. But now we find out that the collector, Benicio Del Toro's character, is trapped in the mirror dimension and Caecilius has taken his place. So what you're telling me is they couldn't get Benicio Del Toro. But. No, what they're telling you is this is a what if. I know. It's a what if. But it's extra messed up that the collector trapped the sorry that the Grandmaster trapped the collector in the mirror dimension because they're brothers.

[00:48:41] Yeah, but you know, you know how sibling rivalries are when you have cosmic power. Apparently, apparently. You have to be a brother from another mother, too. I love that line, by the way. You're you're my old lady. Wait, sir. Is it you're my brother from another mother's old lady's sister from another mister? We're practically family. And gets treated as such. Yeah.

[00:49:08] At Frost Giant, Loki, Yotam Slopes, Luxury Hotel and Casino. Yes. I just love that Loki. I love that Loki. Yeah, I love that Loki. He's living his best life. He's got the best of all worlds kind of going for him there. There was some funny Easter eggs like when they were talking about cruise options on this intergalactic cruise. You could do couples cliff diving on Vormir, which you can only appreciate that with the one you love. With the one you love. Exactly.

[00:49:38] Explain that to people who don't know. If you've watched the Avengers Endgame, then you know that in order to get the which one was it? The soul stone. The orange. Yeah, the soul stone. That a sacrifice needed to be made. So Thanos. It's got to be the one you love the most. Yeah. The one you love the most.

[00:50:00] So Thanos threw his daughter, Gamora, right off the cliff in order to collect the stone. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And we also had that with this. That's also how Natasha died ultimately too. That is also how Natasha died. Yeah. With a... She threw herself basically. But yeah. She sacrificed herself so that Hawkeye could go back to his family. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

[00:50:27] And they also mention a lava boat ride on the canals of Muspelheim, which is obviously another like lava world in the Nine Realms. But you know, we're talking Thor territory here. I love seeing Yondu, even though he got flattened. He always makes me cry at the end of Guardians of the Galaxy 2. Really? Mm-hmm. Yeah. I'm Mary Poppins, y'all. I love those movies more than you.

[00:50:57] We all know this. Anyway. We just watched Mary Poppins. Oh, yeah? Okay. Oh, I mean, you know, I love the Guardians. Oh, the Guardians. Yeah. That's how much I don't care about the Guardians that I immediately went to. We just watched Mary Poppins in the MCU podcast. Yes. I mean, fair. Yeah. We all know I'm a bigger fan of the Guardians and James Gunn in general. Yes.

[00:51:27] Oh, yeah. James Gunn. I love that Dormammu did not come to bargain with this insolvent thing. And then it was cute how they had this whole thing. Like, they set it up in the beginning, how they, the couple, the ducks, they sing, I was made for loving you terribly to their baby to, like, sort of comfort the baby egg. And so terribly that the neighbors are complaining and yelling at them.

[00:51:54] And so the way they get the egg to hatch at the end is by singing their special song. That's really cool. Your family might be weird, but you're weird in your own special way. Yeah. It's nice. It was nice. It was a nice touch. Yeah. Anyway, I love that episode. I understood while watching it. I was like, this is not going to be one that everyone loves, but this is for me, too. So any final thoughts on episode four? No. No. All right.

[00:52:24] Should we go into episode five? Yeah. What if the emergence destroyed the earth? After the earth is split apart by the emergence, Quentin Beck takes over Stark Industries, creating an army of drones called the Iron Federation to subjugate the survivors. In the present, Revy Williams is recruited by Wong, Okoye, Valkyrie, and Ying Nan to join their alliance.

[00:52:47] After defeating Beck's lieutenant, the White Vision, an act which exposes her identity, Quentin Beck, Williams uses his components to become a human-synthesoid hybrid. While the alliance holds off the Iron Federation, Williams infiltrates Beck's base to destroy the nanites, powering his illusions.

[00:53:06] However, her suit fails and she loses the ability to see through Beck's illusions and is lured into a prison cell where Beck explains that he uploaded the nanites into himself, meaning he can control illusions with his mind. The nanites are also killing him, so he intends to merge with Vision to live longer. However, Williams breaks free only to learn that her comrades are dead and everything since Vision's defeat has been an illusion.

[00:53:31] The Watcher intervenes by encouraging Williams to fight back, so she siphons the nanites off of Beck's body, killing him and destroying the Federation. William then projects the Avengers logo into the sky to give the survivors hope. Elsewhere, three other Watchers are displeased by the Watcher's continued interference. Yeah, the Watcher broke his oath again.

[00:53:58] So I just want to point out the names of the three other three super watchers that we see this season are the Eminence, the Incarnate, and the Executioner. We only ever hear the Eminence talking, but the others are the Incarnate and the Executioner. Badass names. So what did you think? Yeah, I mean, I thought that this, like I said, I was initially disappointed because I thought that this was going to be, you know, a follow-up on the Agatha episode.

[00:54:26] Because the use of the term emergence, and I thought maybe the Celestials came back. So I was like, okay, recalibrating. I think it's cool that they clearly are, they wanted to have a Riri Williams episode to get us familiar for Ironheart, which is coming out this year. So yeah, were you glad to see her? I know you're excited about Ironheart. Yeah, I'm excited for Ironheart, but I thought this was a disservice to her. Okay.

[00:54:54] Because it didn't really tell you much about Riri. Mm-hmm. You know? And I know we're doing, I know this is what if, but she's such a relatively new character that her, you know, her story hasn't really been laid down yet. But so I thought that doing this and showing her in this way might lead other people to think that this is her as a character, and it's not.

[00:55:24] You know what I mean? The way that she acts and the way that she relates to other people, other heroes, and things of that nature. I just felt like if we're going to do a Riri Williams, what if, then we should have an established Riri Williams to be able to say, okay, this is how she differs from main MCU universe Riri.

[00:55:51] And I think this one missed the mark for me in that regard. Okay. See, I thought, I'm not so familiar with the Riri Williams character. I've only become loosely familiar just in anticipation of this show that's coming up. And so I thought, for me, it did tell me a few key things about her. Like that, you know, it's only half an hour, so they didn't have much time for that.

[00:56:15] But, for example, the whole thing where she has to build this theoretical weapon in seven and a half minutes, which is like freaking impossible, but somehow she does manage to pull it off. So that tells me something about this is, she's just the complete tech whiz, maybe even more so than Shuri in Wakanda. Yeah. And I, they also said Riri Williams always thinks she can build her way out of problems. And he, and the watcher says that this is what in this universe leads to her failing over and over.

[00:56:45] And by the way, the fact that he kept emphasizing always fails, always said that over and over. I was like, well, she's clearly not going to fail this time, but I guess they were just showing his exasperation to show why he speaks up and encourages her. But just the whole thing, she can build her way out of problems and then needing to find another internal solution instead. I wonder if that is a theme that we will see come back in her show.

[00:57:09] I mean, I don't know because I don't know her character and her character in the main MCU, which is why I didn't want to see her in this what if in this way.

[00:57:23] Because invariably it's going to get compared, you know, people, folks are going to compare the two versions and see, you know, if this jives with the other. And I just don't think that for a character, again, she's really new character to, to comics even. Right. Right.

[00:57:50] It's not like she's been an established hero and established presence in Marvel comics for 20 plus years. She hasn't. So for a broader audience, especially for kids to get this as their first foray into who RiRi is, I think it was a misstep. Okay. Okay.

[00:58:13] Um, I did like the, the, what if points, I think they could have explored it a little more, but, uh, the emergence occurred earlier is basically what happened. So that's why, and the celestial, or sorry, the eternals weren't ready for it yet. Right. Um, so it exploded the earth and then there's people living on these, like these pieces of the shadow. Right. That's right. Yeah. I thought that was, that was pretty cool. Um, it was cool, but he was like, how are they breathing? Papa.

[00:58:44] There are science issue. Papa, how are they breathing? He's a smart boy. He's like, what's going on? There's no, there's no atmosphere. How can they be breathing? I'm like, there has to be atmosphere. That's why they're breathing. It's magic. It's, it's like Star Wars. There's mysterious air in space when there needs to be. So, yeah. I mean, I do, I do think about that too, because like what, Oh, throw off so many things with gravity and what would happen with like the moon.

[00:59:12] And anyway, um, I don't know how, uh, anyone could have survived an exploded earth, but. You know, comics slash cartoons and it looks cool. And also the whole thing with Quentin Beck and the nanites and the fact that like he took them in, um, to himself to improve himself. But then they were eating him from the inside out. It was very Michael Crichton prey, which is a book that I always think about a lot for some reason. Okay. Okay.

[00:59:40] Were you excited to see Sharon Carter as a smuggler? We last saw her as the power broker, uh, and they haven't picked up that thread again yet in the main MCU. Yeah. I think it's, um, um, yeah, Sharon Carter. They haven't given me a reason to really care quite honestly. Yeah. So even as the power broker, I just, you know, that felt like thrown, thrown out. You know what I mean? Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

[01:00:07] I didn't really, you know, identify with her being that. I get that. Yeah. Yeah. I liked, I liked though that whole opening. I thought that that was like a cute way to introduce Riri. And then she's, she's getting this easy bake oven and it's because it's analog. And then, uh, it gets destroyed immediately, but she's like, well, it doesn't matter. Only needed this part. And like flex it out of the air. Yeah. But don't get me wrong.

[01:00:34] You know, I don't want folks to, to get the wrong idea that, you know, this episode was, you know, subpar. No, it just wasn't your fave. It did what it did for the story. And I get it. They told a cool story. It was a cool ass story that they told, but you know, I'm just thinking meta over here. And I'm just like, yeah, it didn't make sense for me. No, no, that's fair. That's fair. For the character. Mm hmm.

[01:01:02] What did you think about their, their base was a sunken ship that was now flying through the sky? I mean. I mean, that's not how gravity works, but I love it. Gotta magic that shit away, man. You know what I mean? You know how I am. Fuck science. Gotta magic that shit. I'm cool with that. Yeah. Now, I know, I know your son is a fan of vision. But of course he, I'm sure he knows by now the difference between, you know, our Avengers vision and white vision.

[01:01:28] But what did he think about seeing vision like this as a nemesis program by Beck? Oh no, he, he was cool with it because he's seen, we actually, um, he knows that Ultron created vision to be Ultron's body. Mm hmm. So he gets that. And in some of the Avengers animated episodes that we watch, he's seen that transformation, how vision becomes an Avenger. So he gets it. Okay.

[01:01:58] That, you know, he's seen different versions of vision. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, um, I, I liked, I thought it was cool again, you know, that theme about merging technology and magic and different sorts of things. And so we have, um, Riri turns herself into a human synthesized by fusing with vision spare parts after she kills him and he uploads her face to Quentin. Um, I thought that was really cool. No, that was cool. That was cool. Yeah.

[01:02:29] Question about Ying Nan, by the way, that's actually Shang-Chi's mother in our 616 universe. Maybe not in this one. We don't know. Um, but at the end, she's the one who goes to write. Okay. And I just answered my own question in my head as I was asking it, but I'll finish it. So she takes Riri to, you know, they have to go to, uh, the far side of the planetary asteroid ring to get to the center of the illusion network. Basically they're looking for Quentin.

[01:02:55] And then when they get to the base, uh, she dissolves away with the background. I'm like, she was never real. But then of course, right after that, he takes them to see that all of her teammates are actually dead and died when they were fighting vision. Yeah. So that actually makes sense. It does. I liked her line. That's the thing about connections. They go both ways when she takes the nanites from him. Right. Right. Yeah. Um, yeah.

[01:03:24] And then this is of course the watcher can't watch her give up one more time and he just tells her to fight. Simple intervention. He's done way bigger interventions. Yeah, I know. But I guess it was just too much. Straw that broke the camel's back. It was just like, okay, this is too much. One last time. You've gone too far. Yeah. And, uh, yeah. Quentin Beck's statue's toppled and he dies. And, uh, it's kind of a happy, happily ever after for this episode.

[01:03:54] Maybe. Maybe. Yeah. Except the earth's still destroyed and you, and you know, your son's right. He can't, he can't, nobody can breathe. Uh, all right. Any, any more thoughts on episode, uh, five? Nah. All right. All right. This is a good spot to take a quick break. And when we come back, we're going to talk about actually another one of my favorite episodes. Well, we'll talk about why. 1872. See you on the other side.

[01:04:43] All right. Episode six. What if? 1872. In the 1860s, Shang-Chi's sister, Xu Xia Ling, fled to America for a better life, only to fall victim to the hood's plan to enslave Chinese migrants in order to consolidate his power. In 1872, Xu Xiang-Chi is searching for his sister alongside Kate Bishop, who wants revenge on the hood for killing her family.

[01:05:06] They find a decimated township and meet a boy, Kwai Jun-Fan, who claims the hood attacked and left on a ghost train. Xiang-Chi, Bishop, and Jun-Fan find and board the train where they discover that the missing immigrants have been brainwashed by the hood's enforcer, Sonny Birch, Sunny Birch. The watch helps Jun-Fan survive while Shang-Chi and Bishop are taken to the hood, who is revealed to be a corrupted Xia Ling, who killed the original hood and stole his powers.

[01:05:35] Birch confesses to killing Bishop's parents and attempts to brainwash her until Jun-Fan rings the bell, freeing the prisoners and allowing Bishop to knock Birch out. Shang-Chi refuses to fight Xia Ling, and Bishop kills Xia Ling, not knowing her identity and thinking she's about to kill Shang-Chi. Later, the pair observes Jun-Fan with the immigrants before they ride off into the sunset. The episode ends with the watcher being punished by the other watchers for his interference,

[01:06:01] causing shards of their observatory to spill into the multiverse. So, what were your thoughts on this episode? This is probably my third favorite. Okay, yeah, same. This is my third favorite episode. Handshaking emoji, yeah. Yeah, I really like this one. I like the Old West vibe, and I like it wasn't centered on some white cowboy.

[01:06:28] So, I really enjoyed this immigrant type of story being told that we often don't get to see. So, that was really a nice twist on the Old West Americana type of setting. So, I really enjoyed it. I thought Shang-Chi and Kate Bishop's dynamic worked for me.

[01:06:52] I would like to see them more of this world and more of them as they traverse the Old West. I think that was really cool. West Coast Avengers. So, yeah, this was fun. This was fun. Yeah, so, when I saw the title of this one before I watched the episode, I was like, you know, last season we got that 1602 episode. Yes. And I went back and I read the 1602 comics because, and I just loved it so much. I love these historical comics. So, it was like 1872.

[01:07:21] That's so specific. I bet there's a comic that I can read. So, I did. I went and read the 1872, which is, again, this is only inspired by, it doesn't take the plot. The characters are largely different. But it's this Old West setting. And, yeah, I really, I enjoyed the comic. I actually talked about it recently on Silo for overlapping reasons. But, yeah, so, I was really into this going in.

[01:07:48] And I just thought it was cool how they did, for example, like, they, I didn't look at the cast list before I started any of the episodes. So, I was always surprised by who showed up. And then they start the episode by, we're going to do 10 rings. You have to do 10 rings on the bell. I was like, oh, she's going to shut up. Right, right. And then I love how they had these, like, kung fu gunfights by merging, you know, the Eastern and Western fighting styles.

[01:08:14] The ghost train was really a hover train, which, yeah, there's more Stark tech involved. So, it was sort of like, I wouldn't call it steampunk Western because there was no steam involved, but, you know, Stark tech Western. But I have to ask, they left the poor horses in the desert and on the train? Yeah, they did. They did. They did. The horses will be fine. Okay. All right. No horses were harmed. No horses were harmed in the making of this cartoon? No. Yeah.

[01:08:42] And I think, again, that this was, they wanted to introduce the hood, who's going to be an antagonist in the Ironheart series again. This is, again, an Ironheart series set up to, but it wasn't, we're not getting, obviously, this version of the hood. We're not getting Charlene as the hood. And we saw, we saw, like, the cape fly away at the end to anoint the next hood. But we see a little bit of, like, the hood's powers.

[01:09:10] Like, the hood can disappear and has, like, mystical powers and that weird voice. So, I guess that's what we're going to see in the show. We'll see. We'll see. Because they always change things up a little bit. So, let's see what we get. Yeah. Yeah. I've been kind of a John Walker apologist since Falcon and the Winter Soldier. Like, you know, he did bad things, but, you know, they created empathy for him with me. But he was a freaking racist in this one. He's like, what do I care about a bunch of Chinese immigrants?

[01:09:38] Like, they are turning me against him for Thunderbolts. As well they should. He did. He was a fucking racist in, um... Was he? Yeah. I mean, he did things wrong, but I don't remember that side. Yeah. He was just, he was like an angry man who, yeah. Yeah. Went too far. He was angry that this black man was trying to hold the shield. Yeah. Was it about that?

[01:10:07] Or was it just like, he was like, I get to be Captain America. They made me Captain America. What? I get to be Captain America because you don't get to be Captain America. It's two different things. Okay. All right. All right. I don't know. I actually kind of want to go back and rewatch that show. I know people like talked out. I liked it. I know. Yeah. I thought it was cool. I liked it. I think that there's, it had its COVID problems, but I actually quite liked it myself also. Yeah, I did like it. Yeah. Little Easter egg.

[01:10:34] They say that they talk about being headed to Point Pegasus. And I think that this is a reference to the Joint Dark Energy Mission Facility, which is a shield facility where they're studying the Tesseract. And they, it, that was part of Project Pegasus where Pegasus is an acronym. Um, so it means, uh, projects, potential energy group, alternate sources. Pegasus. Yeah. So I'm guessing that that's what I was about.

[01:11:03] Um, there was some cool alternate reality snapshots. Uh, we saw Throg running from alligator Loki. We saw some pirates. We saw show tunes, Ultron. That was, that was funny. Yeah. All this season, all these little teases we get of the other potential universes. I'm like, man, this show could have gone on forever. It could have, and it should. I know. It deserves more seasons. Yeah, it does. It does.

[01:11:32] Uh, Sonny Birch, by the way, for, for anyone who doesn't remember, um, he was in the Ant-Man movies. He was, uh, a nemesis in the Ant-Man movies. So here he's even worse. And he tried to have that kid, Jun Fan, killed. And the Watcher intervened again there. Yeah. And Sonny, he says, like, he not only killed Kate's parents and took and used their money, but he rubs it in that, like, he really enjoyed it.

[01:11:59] Like, he was really, like, let me grow a mustache real quick so I can draw. He's a bad guy. Yeah. Yeah. He's a villain's villain. Yeah. He's a villain's villain. He has that hypnotizing watch that makes Kate sleepy and hypnotizes the laborers. So that's why, uh, Jun Fan needs to later ring the bell to disrupt the sound. Although I was, I kept thinking, I was like, plug all their ears. Plug all their ears.

[01:12:23] Um, what did you think about the reveal that Sha Ling was the hood? Yeah, I wasn't expecting it. I didn't see it. I didn't see it happening. So I was pleasantly surprised that, you know, I was surprised because I didn't see it. I didn't see it happening. And I thought the fight sequence between the two of them was really, was really well animated. It was really well done. Yeah. No, I thought it was, I mean, how devastating is that, you know?

[01:12:52] And that she's, she seems to be willing to kill her brother for stopping her. Yeah, she would have. But I find it hard to believe that she believes that she's saving people by turning them into an army to fight. But she also has this demonic hood. Right. That's true. Corrupting her thoughts. You know, corrupting her actions, her thoughts, her mind. So she probably would have killed. Yeah. But she is, she's herself again, luckily, when she dies.

[01:13:21] And she blames the hood, not Kate, for her death. Right. Yeah. Or Shang-Chi blames the hood, not Kate, for her death. I was so glad that that didn't blow up Shang-Chi and Kate. They still rode off. In the sunset together. Yeah. Yeah. And of course, they say about Jun Fen, they say that kid's got some iron fists. They just laid it on thick. Just laid it on thick. So he is an alternate iron fist in the comics other than Danny Rand.

[01:13:51] Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I thought that this was a fun episode. I really liked it. This was definitely my third favorite of the season. Any final thoughts on episode six? Okay. Episode seven, what if the Watcher disappeared? In the fifth dimension, the Watcher stands trial before the other three Watchers, the Eminence, the Incarnate, and the Executioner, while Captain Peggy Carter leads a team consisting of

[01:14:18] Kohori, a grown-up birdie, a Molinear-wielding storm, and stopping multiversal incursions. After preventing an interdimensional universe eater, the squid-like Hydra champion from season one, from attacking Xandar-625, Carter and her team notice three shards have fallen from the Watchers' observatory, which they know means trouble, and they resolve to help. But first, they have to reach his plane of existence somehow.

[01:14:46] After their first attempts to synthesize the shards fail, and cost them two of the three the group consider requesting help from Variant of Infinity Ultron, agreeing to use Time Variance Authority equipment to prune him should he go rogue. After a heart-to-heart with Storm, Carter resolves to meet with Infinity Ultron alone, only to be captured by the Eminence. Noticing Carter went missing, Kohori, Birdie, and Storm confront Ultron, who reveals that

[01:15:15] he has realized there is no peace without life, and concludes that he made a mistake in distinguishing all life in his universe. Though it is too late for redemption, he is willing to atone for his action, and absorbs the shards before agreeing to take them to rescue Carter and the Watcher. What did you think? Yeah, I mean, I loved the team-up. I was really happy to see the Nova Prime Nebula back, because I loved that episode. Yeah.

[01:15:45] But then I was disappointed. I thought she might join their team and go with them, and she didn't, and I was disappointed about that, but fine. Okay. They still gave me Storm, wielding Mjolnir. What did you think of that? Yeah, badass. I mean, that makes sense, of course. Storm should, you know, the goddess of thunder. Yeah. Yeah, badass. Completely badass. Mm-hmm. I want to point out that because they've taken Oatu into custody, you know, they've arrested him. There's a different narrator for this episode.

[01:16:15] It's the Eminence. Yes, yes, yes. He's played by Jason Isaacs. Yeah. It was a nice touch. It was a nice touch. Yeah. Yeah, I like that. And yet, we also got a quick Groot and Korg sightings, which I always love to see those two characters, too. So, happy to have a cameo from them. Did you notice that Captain Carter and Birdie, Khori, and Storm, they arrived in Kang's time chair? Yes, I did. Feels like something was cut there. Yes, I did. Exactly.

[01:16:45] There are a lot of threads, you know. Like you said, you can tell that maybe they were told late in the game that they were not getting another season. Right. In this case, though, don't you think it probably has something to do with the Jonathan Majors? Of course, yes. Yeah. Yes. Absolutely. They're like, just erase as much Kang as possible. Kang's out. We're not doing Kang. Yeah. Get rid of all Kang-ness. We're not doing Kang.

[01:17:14] All Kang-ness, yeah. Purge the universe of Kang-ness, yeah. Hmm. What did you think of Birdie? Adult Birdie. Now you don't have to explain the awkward egg. Yeah. Still no? Yeah. Hmm. She was a mix of between Howard and Darcy, of course. And Darcy, yeah. I thought they did it that well. I think, yeah, they did it well.

[01:17:42] They portrayed her as being, you know, a product of both her parents. But, yeah, she was, I didn't know why she was there. Mm-hmm. If that makes sense. She's supposed to be Save the Universe or the Multiverse. Yeah, I know, but I don't know why this team was together in the first place. I would have loved to have seen them. How did they get together? How did they come together? How did they find each other? It seemed like Storm and Peggy were close, but then I would love to have seen how they

[01:18:12] got close. Yeah, that's what I mean. So how did this team come together? It felt like, you know, these pieces that they're giving us and saying that these pieces fit. Mm-hmm. But I would have liked to see how the pieces actually do fit, because I don't think I got that watching this episode. Yeah. They did show this goofy photo at one point that also included Gamora and Natasha, who

[01:18:39] were in previous incarnations of this team in prior seasons. And I think the last person was T'Challa. So I think that was like, these characters are all gone in the MCU now. Of course, I got saddest about T'Challa because, you know, Chadwick Boseman really is gone. But- But T'Challa! But T'Challa, so tell the people there's a rumor. We're going to talk about it. We are going to do our MCU preview. Yeah, we're going to definitely get more into that.

[01:19:09] But yeah, they're all gone now. So are you a Natasha Lyonne fan in general? Yeah, I am. I think she's cool. Yeah. I thought this was a great part for her. She is a good voice for this part, I should say. You know, she is going to show up as an unknown role in the Fantastic Four film, but I'm guessing- Not Birdie. I'm guessing not Birdie. I would kind of love it, but I think people would riot. I don't think it's- Maybe she'll be Alicia.

[01:19:41] Who's Alicia? I'm not as well-versed. Oh, right. Ben Grince-Paramore. Oh, maybe. Okay, maybe. No, no, no. Maybe. Maybe. I'm just thinking of previous castings. Okay. Could be. Could be. I wouldn't hate that. I think it was a cool idea to bind their ships to the shards. I thought that this was another one where they're merging science and magic together in this episode. So, yeah, we see them like, oh, let's try magic.

[01:20:11] Okay, let's try the cosmic powers. Let's, you know. Well, you know what I say. What? Ah, fuck science. Give me all the magic. Give me all the magic. I like when you merge them together in stories. And I also thought it was interesting that the eminence ironically gave them the materials they needed to reach him, you know, by letting those shards fall. Fall. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:20:36] But it does, when they met Ultron, it drives me crazy so much when people attack without listening, even though I know that that's like how people really are. I'm like, let's not model this behavior. Let's hear the person out. Yeah, that's pretty cool. That is true. That is true. But again, you know, like I said, it was fine. But I wish I had reason to care about this team other than let's go save Watu.

[01:21:07] Hmm. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Although it's cool that we got like Ultra Shard Ultra. But then, you know, he realized that there's, he had to sit in this world that he actually achieved a destruction of and realized that like, actually that sucks. And that's not peaceful at all. Yeah. That was great. That was a great thing. And I think he, you know, even said to me much the same. He was like, oh, so he saw what he did was bad. Right, Papa? I was like, yeah.

[01:21:35] I think he realizes what he did was not such a good thing. So, you know, it was, it was a nice little moment of clarity. Going into this episode. Yeah. Yeah. And then we get a big fat to be continued. And this is when I started to suspect that maybe it wasn't nine episodes. I was like, wow, to be continued. Is the next one going to be to be continued too? Still didn't look at the episode list.

[01:22:02] Still in full delusion as I rolled into the final one. Do you have any more thoughts on seven? No. We can go to the finale. All right. Let's wrap it up. What if, what if. In a flashback, a Watcher disciple named Watu is recruited to become a full Watcher by the Eminence. In the present, the Watcher is placed on trial for his repeated interference,

[01:22:27] such as giving Doctor Strange Supreme the information he needed to recreate his destroyed universe, saving Riri Williams and Kwai Jung Fan, as well as involving Captain Carter in his affairs. The Watcher and Carter are rescued by Ultra Shard Ultron, who sacrifices himself to buy them time to escape. The Watchers give chase, attempting to erase them from existence, but the Watcher grants Carter's team the powers of a Watcher before Carter sacrifices herself to transport everyone to Strange Supreme's universe,

[01:22:56] where Strange, having become the sentient consciousness of that universe, removes the powers of the Eminence, Incarnate and Executioner. The Watcher convinces the humbled trio to learn by watching over life in this new universe. As they mourn Carter's death, the Watcher invites Cahori, Birdie, and Storm to join him in watching over the multiverse. Oh yeah, for place three for three. What are your thoughts on this one?

[01:23:23] Um, I, yeah, the fight sequences were great. Let me just say that. You know, having these OP, overpowered protagonists go at each other was really cool and fun to see. And, yeah, I just, the spectacle of it all was really cool. You know, it really was cool.

[01:23:49] Um, and I like that they went to Stephen Strange's universe in order to have a chance. You know? Mm-hmm. When, when she, when, I forgot, when he, when Guatu says, you're in his universe now and it doesn't work, you know, you're at his whims. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. I thought that was a really cool thing. And then they, they showed Stephen and the stars. That was so cool to, to see.

[01:24:20] Um, and again, another character, you know, trying to atone for past horrible behaviors. Right. Um, so that little thread, maybe they could have woven that thread throughout the entire season. Mm-hmm. Then it would have been a lot more impactful for me. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Yeah. Because as it stands, we got that in these last two episodes.

[01:24:46] And I'm like, I, I, I left thinking like the season should have been about that. Mm-hmm. Right. Instead of these two episodes being about that, the season should have been about that. Yeah. And, um, yeah. So, but it was, you know, I. Although I'm glad we got the other episodes. I just wish, give them more season. Yeah. Give them an advance warning as they're developing it, you know? Absolutely. I'm not, I'm not saying I didn't, I don't want those other episodes, you know, but I

[01:25:16] thought that the story that they were trying to tell in these last two episodes would have hit a lot better if they told that story. Those, those threads were, you know, sewn in through the entire season. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. New rule. You have to tell someone it's their last season before they start developing it. Okay. Are you listening to me? Hmm. Um, yeah. I mean, I, I like this one.

[01:25:42] I liked, uh, the flashback to, at the beginning to when Uatu became a watcher. Um, yeah, that was cool. It always strikes me how much that's when you see strands of, of our universe, it always strikes me how much it looks like, like networks of nerves or blood vessels in our own bodies. Um, I think about like our own bodies are little universes for all the little beings that live in there. Right. Um, we definitely, you know, the eminence is like holier than thou, but he's definitely

[01:26:11] got a lot of pride because he, he tells Uatu, you are a disciple of the orders of the watchers of me. Right. Right. Full of himself. Um, but then he says, yeah, you, you have to sacrifice your wills, your wants and your own names for powers. But anytime you have to sacrifice all of your individuality, I'm like, not a good thing. Not right at you. Jedi. Yeah. Well, they get to have their names at least and stuff and even get their own lightsaber colors. Hmm. Hmm.

[01:26:43] Um, but yeah, our watcher does not fear sacrifice and must observe only observe to preserve he's told, which I think this is like such a dangerous message and it's treated as a dangerous message. Obviously that's what this episode is about, but we see it in our own world where people are just like, well, let's just, let's just watch it play out. You know, shouldn't interfere. Like it's a nature documentary, but, uh, no, it's, I mean, but for them, it actually is.

[01:27:12] It's like us watching ants. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Build a, an anthill or, you know, carry a twig along and try to get across a puddle. Yeah. That's what, that's what we are to them. So, you know, it's just the same, the same thing. Like just watch the lesser beings, you know, do their thing. Why do you have to get involved, bro? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:27:40] They say to see from every point of view, a watcher must have none of their own. Uh, there is no seeing differently. And now that. But that is a point of view. Yeah. But now that. Yeah, exactly. Now that a lot to has an opinion that doesn't conform or subjugate to theirs, then now he's a heretic and they're all heretics. Right. Right. Anyone who disagrees with the eminence is a heretic. Yeah. And we don't even know what, you know, the other two think. Yeah.

[01:28:10] Yeah, that's true. They don't speak up. They just follow. The eminence is doing all the talking and all the thinking. Mm-hmm. You know, the executioner and the incarnate. They're just, you know, like, yeah, this is, these are the rules and I just follow them. They're like pencil pushers. Yeah. Yeah. Although in the eminence's defense, not all of the watchers picks of heroes that he told the secrets of the multiverse to look like the best picks on paper.

[01:28:37] Like I'm looking at you, Stephen Strange and Killmonger, especially. I could see why there might be doubt. He made some mistakes. He did. He did. I mean, it worked out the way he wanted to, which, you know. All in the end. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. He was planning. And I like the way he said, he's like, why aren't we, we want the universe to grow like a garden, you know, more bushes and branches to watch over, more like overall goodness that

[01:29:05] enhances, it all becomes more vibrant. He said. Like a tree? Like a tree held by a certain Loki. Yeah, like a tree. By the way, can you guess the moment where I squeed the most? They mentioned. He's like, you saved a bunch of people, including a version of Reed Richards, we should point out. And some girl named Madison. Madison. Who has an I and a Y.

[01:29:32] But then he didn't, he did not say, but not where you think. So I yelled at the screen. But not where you think. You have to finish the line. I wonder if we'll ever see Madison again. I think we will. Like Agatha season two, maybe? Apparently Jack Schaefer did want to include her in season one, but then she was like, I would have been shoehorning her in. But maybe a season two. I think Madison's got to come back. This is the second reference we've gotten recently. Right.

[01:30:03] People know we love her. Nobody is, even people who hate on She-Hulk, they're like, yeah, Madison is fine. Yeah, basically. Yeah, it was cool to see Ultron as an ally. You know, the Watcher was surprised because, you know, he says later, what does he say? He says, when you've spent so many eons looking down on everything, it becomes hard to imagine something you've never seen before. Right.

[01:30:27] But then it was like, we got this cool Ultron ally, sharded up, you know, infinity Ultron. And then he goes down pretty quickly. Yeah, pretty, yeah, it was just like, even E was like, wow, that guy must be really powerful. Like, E, Ultron had all the infinity stones. Yeah. He had them, but apparently it didn't work out.

[01:30:53] So that, which leads me to think, is the M&S that more powerful than the other Watchers? Because Watsu couldn't do what he did. No. No, I agree. Yeah. Watsu couldn't even destroy one non-charted up infinity Ultron. Right. So. Yeah. How powerful within their universe is, you know, the eminence. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:31:23] And their whole plan, though, we're just going to hide between the multiverses. I'm like, that's going to last for two seconds. And then it did last for like two seconds. And then it lasted for like two seconds. The ship gets burnt up. I liked. What did you think of this concept? That so strange. At the end of the last season, he sacrificed himself to restart this universe. So everyone, including his beloved Christine, could be happy in it without him.

[01:31:47] And we find out in this season that that means that his soul now permeates that universe that he created by sacrificing himself. And he has control over it. What did you think of that concept? I mean, he created the universe. So it makes complete sense to me. I thought that was beautiful. He's the creator. Yeah. He's the creator of the universe and everything is infused with him. Some part of him.

[01:32:17] He gets to see Christine live her life. Yeah. Live her life and still be a part of it because he's a part of her. Yeah. Yeah. As you said, we got some cool battle moments. We got the Watchers in their battle gear. We got the Watcher Galactus moment. What did you think about that? That was cool. That was cool.

[01:32:42] Although I do have questions about suddenly, I think it was a cool move, but I'm not sure about it on the lore front. Maybe you can tell me more. But suddenly the Watcher is able to have the other three take the Watcher oath and become Watchers themselves. Is that how it works? It's not the eminence that has to do with it? That. Yeah. No, I didn't know about that. Yeah. I didn't know about that.

[01:33:08] And that's something that I checked off on my list to look up when I have a moment. Because, yeah, I didn't know that he could imbue his powers, the power of the Watcher to other sentient life forms. But then again, this is a what if. Yeah. I'm guessing it's a show invention. Yeah. Yeah. But it was cool. I mean, do you want to see these Watchers back?

[01:33:37] Kohori, Birdie, and Storm, Mjolnir Storm? No. No? Oh. No, because, again, I don't have reason. I'm not invested in their characters. Hmm. Like, I feel like they were just thrown together. Like, Kohori, like, I watched her. Yeah, I know her, you know? Mm-hmm. So if we get a Kohori animated series or whatever, I'll be keen on that.

[01:34:07] I would like to see that. Storm is Storm. No matter if she's the goddess of thunder or she's, you know, a mega level mutant or she's the goddess on Earth. It is what it is. She's Storm, you know? Mm-hmm. Birdie is whatever Birdie. Mm-hmm. She's Birdie.

[01:34:29] But them together, I have, I don't have an affinity for because I don't, as a team. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Like, I just don't, it didn't move me to be like, I can't wait to see this team again. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I, so we get Oatu reclaiming his identity. I am not no one. I am Oatu.

[01:34:57] Do you think we are going to see this Oatu in, say, Secret Wars? No. No? No. I am hoping that we do. I see, I hope we see Jeffrey Wright in Secret Wars as Oatu. Yeah, I, we may see Jeffrey Wright, but we won't see, I don't think we'll see a watcher that does more than watch. At least initially. Hmm.

[01:35:24] And if we do see a watcher that does more than watch, it'll be in Fantastic Four. Oh, you're right. That's, that's actually a good place for him to show up. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It'll be in Fantastic Four. Yeah. I have a feeling Fantastic Four, it sounds like it's going to be setting up Doomsday. Everything. Especially, and then, yeah, Secret Wars after that. Yeah. Looks like it's going to be setting up everything. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then we get that moment. It was a cool moment. This is not what you taught me.

[01:35:54] I did not teach you everything. And then the Eminence and, and his other two cronies to go in super spin mode. Yeah. And they're like, every version of yourself will be erased from every universe. And what was cool about it was as they're like, first of all, it's kind of sad because we're seeing these other alternate universes die off. And there were some like really interesting things going on in there. Like we had like an electric Sharon Carter, or sorry, an Electra Peggy.

[01:36:21] We had like, I don't even remember what were all the, I mean, if we had more time, I'd love to do like a full Easter egg breakdown, but we don't have that kind of time on this spot. But so many cool Easter eggs in like those identities we saw peeling off and dying until through sheer force of Peggy's will. She says, I am not losing any friends today.

[01:36:44] And she sacrifices herself so that they end up in Strange's living universe where he has absolute power and can shut down the others, which I'm not really sure how the mechanics of that worked, but okay. I'm cartoon logic. He created the universe. Yeah. But how did Peggy's sacrifice get them to that universe from where they were? Magic. Okay. The magic of love. Yeah. Magic. Okay.

[01:37:14] Yeah. But I love the lesson of this. Um, while to says to the other watchers, you must do more than simply watch, you must learn to see. And, uh, Carter's shield heels. She's Captain Britain, by the way. I don't think we've mentioned that, but, um, I think I, she shouldn't probably will show up in some of these team up films later. I'm guessing. Um, but yeah, this version, not this version. Cause she's dead, but she's watching. And then we get this line.

[01:37:43] Is there a greater adventure beyond death? And that struck me because we've been talking so much about how they've been showing all of these afterlifes. Yep. So I feel like that's setting that up. That is definitely setting something up. No, definitely setting something because they've been telling this story for the last three years, two years. Mm hmm. You know, and I don't think that's a throwaway line.

[01:38:10] No, especially cause they've been teasing us with like, you know, we've talked about it in another pod. We don't have to go into it here, but you know, we've, we've seen it in moon night. We've seen it in Ms. Marvel. You could argue. We've seen it obviously black Panther, uh, Thor. Yeah. So many versions. Yeah. Well, any final thoughts on this series this season? Um, no, just that.

[01:38:36] I enjoyed all three seasons of what if, um, again, for this final season, I just thought that, you know, the, the last two episodes had a story to tell and I wish they had stitched it throughout the entire season. Yeah. We're able to do so. Mm hmm.

[01:38:58] But there are some really great episodes, um, two, three, you know, just really fun stuff. Mm hmm. Yeah. Do you think or hope that we'll see any of these characters or storylines, uh, continue anywhere else like Secret Wars or Fantastic Four Doomsday? Mm hmm.

[01:39:29] If they do like a battle world and Avengers Doomsday or Secret Wars, um, where by doom stitches together different parts of the multiverse into one, into one world. Mm hmm. Then yes, maybe we'll see some of these characters from the first three seasons, um, come on screen in live action. Right.

[01:39:58] That's the only way I could see it happen. Wow. That 1872 comic, by the way, it takes place on battle worlds, uh, in, in a section of it. Yeah. Yeah. So that's the only way I could see it. You know, happen. Yeah. I already said, I think and hope that we'll see Jeffrey Wright's Oatu show up somewhere. And I think you're right. Fantastic Four is the best place.

[01:40:23] I did hope for a continuation of movie star Agatha plotline, maybe with the popularity of Agatha all along, maybe they might give us some nods to that somewhere. Um, I want to know about these celestials that were coming. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and, and I just, yeah, the new characters that they introduced, Kohori, Birdie and Ranger Morales. Um, I don't want this to be the end of them.

[01:40:48] You know, these were new characters for this show and, uh, they, I feel like I just got teases and I need more now. Definitely. Definitely. Um, but again, you know, even if we don't get more, I'm glad that we got this. Yeah. Yeah. Cause never in a million years did I expect to get this. Yeah. Yeah. And that we actually got it. And then we're getting a Marvel zombie spinoff. Mm hmm. I mean. Yeah.

[01:41:16] And, and I can see if that does well, then maybe some of these other characters will show up in some other form of animation in the coming years. Yeah. I'm hoping that, uh, that Jennifer Kale shows up in Marvel zombies because she plays a sizable role in some of those Marvel zombies comics. Right. Um, so the panel, there were some other ideas they considered for this season. They were considering having a through line of kiss stories like the band.

[01:41:45] And one of them was going to be a galactic battle of the bands with kisses, the judges. Yeah. Thank God. I'm okay with missing that. They were thinking about a hardcore samurai episode with elements of Romeo and Juliet. No. Um, I mean, I would be into that. I would be even more into a dungeons and dragon style episode, but that's like a really vague way to put it. So I don't know what that would have looked like.

[01:42:09] Um, I, this is cool because this is, this next one is more like what I think of as the concept of what if, you know, in terms of like T'Challa star Lord, they were thinking about having an episode where Yelena Belova became the winter soldier with Sam, and Sam Wilson was Captain America. I think that would have been cool. That would have been cool. Yeah. Uh, they were thinking about having a Kung Fu episode, themed episode featuring the iron fist and Shang-Chi. That would have been cool too. Yeah.

[01:42:36] But I'm, I like the, I guess I'm guessing the 1872 episode is what we got instead. And I was happy with that. And I'm happy with that. Definitely. Yeah. And, um, apparently Andrew's also wanted to include the characters Beta Ray Bill, which I know basically nothing about. So no comments there, but also Ghost Rider. Ghost, give me Ghost Rider. Please give me Ghost Rider. Now that would have been epic. Beta Ray Bill, one of my favorite characters in all Marvel.

[01:43:05] Tell us a bit about him. What's his deal? Why is he so cool? He's the last of his, he's the protector of his race. Um, they're like horse-like creatures, sentient horses, um, horse-faced creatures. Uh, he has a cool ass, uh, ship, um, trying to find a home world for his people. Um, he's their final protector and he's a big part of Thor, um, stories.

[01:43:34] Um, he gets his own, he's gifted his own hammer by Odin. Right. Um, which imbues him with the power of Thor as well. Mm-hmm. Um, so he's a big part of some of the cosmic comics in the last 20, 25 years. Um, so he, yeah, he's a really cool, fun character.

[01:44:00] Uh, well, the good news for both of us is that the reason why they couldn't use Beta Ray Bill or Ghost Rider is because apparently they, they were off limits because they may appear in future projects. That's what's up. That's, that's great. Yeah. Like, so I hope that means that they are appearing in future projects. They gave him a tease in, um, Thor Ragnarok. Mm-hmm. When Thor was on, um, Sakaar, when they went to Sakaar, his face was etched in the, in the stone.

[01:44:30] Okay. Okay. Yeah. Cool. In the mountains. So yeah, definitely. So sooner or later. Yeah. And come on, we're overdue for at least one Ghost Rider, but I need three. You've already had two. I, I, but not in the MCU. So I want those two back in the MCU. I kid, I kid, I kid. And I want also Danny Kitch. Um. Yeah, you got the Cage version. Yeah, I'm happy. Yeah, that's, that's Johnny Blaze though. I want all three.

[01:45:00] I want three. You want all three? I want and more and more and more. Goodness gracious. I want, uh, Kishala. She's my favorite. Um, she's like, anyway. Yeah, I've talked about her in previous episodes, but give me like a brigade of Ghost Riders. Like we're getting in the DCU. We're going to get a bunch of, of Green Lanterns. Yes. I'm one of the great of Ghost Riders. Oh, but then. Oh.

[01:45:30] You introduced them one at a time, but you know, yeah. Anyway. Okay. Uh, so yeah. And, and also apparently they didn't realize until I guess they, maybe Storm was added kind of last minute because they didn't even realize that they had access to the X-Men characters. Oh wow. And then they're like, oh, well, you know, if we had known, we would have used Wolverine, but I'm, I'm happy. I, I don't. I'm happy they did Storm. Yeah. Yeah. We had enough Wolverine this year. Yeah. Basically.

[01:46:01] Hmm. Well, we, we've got a lot more to comics discussion coming up. What else do we have coming up in the near future? Um, we have the MCU 2025 preview mini sold a creature commandos one shot, um, with Superman trailer talk, Superman trailer talk. I know you're excited about that.

[01:46:25] Then, um, when the Craven digital comes out, we'll, you know, do some sort of Sony spider villain versus funeral. We're, we're pitching the dirt on then that entire endeavor. So are they. So we'll help them. Yeah. So we'll help them dig. We're grabbing a shovel. And, um, yeah, goodbye and good luck. Also.

[01:46:53] Um, I haven't even watched the Craven yet. I, but we're going to watch it before we do that. I haven't watched it. I haven't watched it. Um, there's also the similarian stories. Silmarillion stories. Yeah. Um, Nosferatu, which we're going to get into. Um, hopefully we'll be able to see that this weekend. Um, and Oscar season is on the horizon. Yes. I'm very excited to do a new, uh, Oscar series like we did last year. And you joined in for that too. I did. I did. That was a lot of fun. Yeah.

[01:47:24] Um, then we'll have the supercast Patreon, um, second breakfast plus 11 says. Yeah. So at least it's birthday month. Yeah. Yeah. So January is my birthday month. So we choose it. We choose, chose three movies, uh, from the 11 Zs. Let subscribers, uh, vote on them. Um, it's looking currently as we record, like everything everywhere all at once is winning, but there's like another week left in voting. So, um, yeah, there's still time.

[01:47:53] If you are a supercaster, Patreon subscriber, there's still time to get your vote in. If you're like, Hmm, I would rather see breakfast at Tiffany's or the last unicorn or one of the other movies. Uh, but I love everything everywhere. It's absolutely be the last unicorn. I mean, if you want to, uh, if you want to be able to vote, if you want to join supercast and Patreon and have access to episodes like that, you can find that information in the show notes.

[01:48:21] And also, you know, if you don't want to do that, we're just super glad that you're listening. Um, we also really appreciate if you enjoy this episode, if you can share it with other people you think would enjoy this episode, that's a huge help in, in helping our podcast grow so that we can continue to do this. Um, the other huge free piece of help that you can do is just leave a nice review wherever you're listening. If you think nice thoughts about us, that's enormously helpful, especially since, I don't

[01:48:49] know, as John points out when we don't ask, it's only the negative reviews that go up. So if, if, if you're liking this, then, you know, pass the word on. We really appreciate it. Yes, we do. And also do check out the separate severance feed where you can catch up on season one because season two is starting January 17th. Um, January 17th is also the season two finale for silo, which is on the separate wool shift dust feed.

[01:49:16] So, um, I'm leading that silo coverage over there wrapping up in the coming weeks. And John, you've been watching, uh, I think everyone likes episode nine a lot. No spoilers, but. Yeah, it was, it's not my favorite episode. No. Okay. So a lot of people were saying favorites, but you like my favorite episode of the season, but I liked the episode and, um, I am very interested to know what a certain word means. So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:49:46] They dropped a term at the end of the episode that I'm guessing will be explained in the finale. I'm getting, Oh, I'm so excited. I think I know what reveals coming in the finale. Very excited about this. Um, yes. Yeah. And yeah. And also in wool shift dust, you know, as we wind down this silo season, we're shifting gears into our dune coverage. So we've got the five part breakdown of the dune book and the public feed.

[01:50:10] We're going to be covering the, um, dune prequel novels in the book club feed. So yeah, you can find all that information over on the wool shift dust feed. And also if you go into the link tree in the show notes, you can find links to all these things. Plus the other podcasts in the feed, the star Wars cannon timeline podcast, radioactive ramblings, properly Howard rings and rituals, and nevermind the music pairing psychology and music.

[01:51:08] All right. And thank you to all of our listeners. Thank you to our lore hound subscribers, but thank you most of all to our lore masters, our highest tier of subscribers. Samarshan, Michael G, Michelle E, Brian P, SC, Peter O.H., Bettina W, Adam S, Nancy M, Doob 71, Brian 8063, Frederick H, Sarah L, Garrett C, Eric F, Matthew M, Sarah M, DJ Miwa,

[01:51:35] Andra B, Kwong Yu, Jedi Jedi Bob, Nathan T, Alex B, Aaron T, Sub-Zero, Aaron K, Dally V, Mothership 61, Narls, Kathy W, Lestu, Jeffrey B, Elisa Yu, Neil F, Ben B, Scott F, Stephen N, and always last, Audrion. I'm not going to lie. I think that was my favorite one. I'm not going to lie. I was feeling that joint. I think that's it. Yeah.

[01:52:05] Yeah. I should explore that folder more. Yeah. So, Jean, rumor has it that your wish has been granted. The wish you usually say. Look, look, look, Feige. Feige, Feige, Feige, Feige. Hey, listen to all the blurs. Listen to us. Recast T'Challa. And we are very happy that you finally come to your senses and have put a little rumor out there

[01:52:34] to say that indeed you are looking to recast T'Challa. It's taken too long, caused too much stress, and now I'm just happy that you've come to the realization that there is no superhero character, no superhero character that cannot be recast. We love Chadwick. Mm-hmm.

[01:53:02] T'Challa did not die with Chadwick. No. He will always be the Black Panther. Mm-hmm. Doesn't mean that my guy, Damson Idris, can't be the next T'Challa. Let's go. Recast Damson Idris as T'Challa. Fight it. The request is getting more specific. And since John has gotten his wish, I'm going to do a callback to – I've got a message for gun. Okay?

[01:53:31] I know we're MCU, but I'm going to start my DCU message for gun. Do not recast Hawkman in the DCU. The Lorehounds Podcast is produced and published by The Lorehounds. You can send questions and feedback and voicemails at thelorehounds.com slash contact. Get early and ad-free access to all Lorehounds Podcasts at patreon.com slash thelorehounds. Any opinions stated are ours personally and do not reflect the opinion of or belong to any employers or other entities.