EIII: ep 7 – The Acolyte S1-e3 – "Destiny"

[00:00:00] This summer, we enter a new era of Star Wars. You mean the dawn of the Star Wars Canon Timeline Podcast? Yeah, yeah, sure, that too. But I was obviously talking about The Acolyte. We've got to cover that on the Lorehounds.

[00:00:18] Oh, but the Star Wars Canon Timeline Podcast is exactly at that point in the timeline, the end of the High Republic 100 years before the prequel trilogy. We've got to cover it there. Why not both? OK, deal. It's the first live action Star Wars outside the Skywalker saga.

[00:00:37] Nobody can miss this. Listeners, kick off your hot lore summer weekends with seem-by-seem breakdowns of The Acolyte, found in both The Star Wars Canon Timeline Podcast and the Lorehounds' mother feed and the Lorehounds' Star Wars feed.

[00:00:51] Wherever you like to listen, a couple of days after each new episode is released. Welcome to the Star Wars Canon Timeline Podcast and the Lorehounds' Star Wars Podcast. I'm John. And I'm Alicia, and today we're exploring Destiny,

[00:01:34] the third episode of the Disney Plus Star Wars series, The Acolyte. Listeners, for this crossover podcast series, we'll be following the Star Wars Canon Timeline spoiler rules. We might mention a character who vaguely referenced a well-known event from later in the timeline for those who know those stories,

[00:01:49] but we promise not to spoil any of the big twists or story arcs to come. We'll save our trailer-based speculation about what's still to come in the series for a special section at the end, see the notes for timestamps,

[00:02:01] and then John and I will check in with subscribers after next week's mid-season episode for a discussion of how these events might play into what happens later in the timeline. Just a reminder that subscribers get ad-free access to all these episodes day before everyone else.

[00:02:16] If that sounds interesting, stick around to the end of the podcast and we'll explain those benefits. Plus, we'll give you teases of what to expect in the near future on the feed, where you're listening, and the rest of the Lorehounds network.

[00:02:27] Check the link tree in the show notes for links to all including our Discord, where the Acolyte discussion is really kicking off in a fun mystery-loving way. And for the record, this conversation was recorded on June 13th, 2024. And also, we have a silent visitor lurking.

[00:02:45] The triumvirate is complete. David just had to hop in with your hot takes. Welcome. Yes, I was lurking in the shadows. I have some things to say. So, it seems like a lot of people are enjoying the season so far.

[00:03:01] Our Discord seems to be popping off as a kid. Yeah, absolutely. As a kid, yeah. Yeah. So I think whenever a show activates response, that's a good thing. It means it's doing something, it's saying something, it's taking a swing at things.

[00:03:22] And so, yeah, I had a couple of big thoughts that I wanted to throw into the mix. Trust them our way. Yes. So the first couple of episodes were a little meh for me. I was like, oh, it's a freshman show, right? So there's new actors, new writers.

[00:03:39] I mean, Leslie Hedlund is working in a whole new IP for her. So a lot of grace for a new season. She is one of the biggest Star Wars fans in the world. Just putting it up. Right, exactly. Yeah.

[00:03:52] She knows it but still actually producing something is a huge deal. So I get it, right? It's you got to give a show a little bit of room to breathe. And in this episode there are still some clunky stuff like the script and the acting of the kids.

[00:04:07] And I don't mean to, I know that the kids are doing an amazing job of the acting, but it's still a lot. And they're still, I think, finding their feet. But I will say that at least on that score, they did capture really well a sibling relationship

[00:04:23] and the dynamics between siblings and how two kids who come from the same source, so to speak, can be very different from each other. So I felt that that was really good. The midichlorian thing I wanted to address briefly.

[00:04:42] And a shout out to a new podcast we just came across called Every Single Sci-Fi Film Ever. And they, in one of the early episodes of that podcast, there was a conversation with some sci-fi experts, some sci-fi academics.

[00:05:00] And they put their finger on exactly what bothers me about midichlorians, which is midichlorians move us from a mystical universe into a rational science-based universe. It's like, oh, we're going to talk about organic chemistry when we're reading magical realism or something.

[00:05:21] It just doesn't, I'm mixing apple pie and spaghetti. I will defend this mixture of science and magical realism and to my grave, including midichlorians, just putting that out there. But just keep going. Yeah. Isn't that what Star Wars is? It's the fusion.

[00:05:39] It's the perfect, most notable fusion of science fiction and fantasy. Right. I mean, we get spaceships operating like they're atmospheric flight crafts, right? You know, flying around. So anyway, so I really took note of when they took the blood sample. And when, is it June?

[00:05:56] I took the blood sample. And I was like, oh my God, right? We went through this. Wait, Torban? You mean? When she did, yeah. Oh, okay. Sorry. Yeah, you're right. Or Tom in if you want. Also, just to further defend midichlorians because I think they need a voice.

[00:06:13] You know, nobody who will speak for the midichlorians. The force, but yes. Being someone who grew up with them already being part of the canon, I think that makes a big difference for me.

[00:06:25] Like that was always baked into Star Wars the same way the fact that other characters can use the force to guide them into, you know, guide them in their flights. Right? Right. Like things like that where you're sort of

[00:06:42] scienceifying mysticism, I think it feels about the same to me. Like I'm fine with midichlorians. Right. Got it. Now, I liked when they were introduced because I like explanations like that if they fit and they work. And in this case, it does. But anyway.

[00:06:58] Well, I think it does something. I think it's going to be an interesting thing though. So for as much as the midichlorians might cause some fans, some agita, there, I think it's going to be interesting. And once I get into my more specific points here,

[00:07:15] so those are sort of my general thoughts. New show, okay, we're doing a lot. And this episode really grabbed me in a way that one and two didn't. And the deepening of the mystery and the deepening of the relationship between the sisters, the introduction of this coven.

[00:07:33] It's yeah, they're suddenly doing something really interesting. So I'm glad that three just feels like it's got solid footing. And I think three really starts to move us into a new territory and what we want from a show like this.

[00:07:51] When it starts to examine this question of the force, quote unquote, and I'm using quotes quite heavily here, is that there's this power that's just out there. Some people call it the force. Other people call it, what did they call it? The thread? Yeah, the thread in this.

[00:08:11] And we've also talked about other groups that talk about it in terms, in oceanic terms. And yeah. Okay. And this may be present in other canon and legend stuff in the books and whatnot, but at least on screen, we're really getting a,

[00:08:26] this is our first real representation of this. And then this idea that the Jedi are an order, right? They're just one particular group of people who have a particular dominance in this part of the galaxy that has a systematized method of training

[00:08:44] to access the force, to identify people who are sensitive and who can then be trained to access and strengthen their relationship with this thing. So I love this idea that the witches are just tapping into the same source but just having their own ways of knowing,

[00:09:07] having their own ways of training and accessing and utilizing this generic resource that exists out of there. So I think that is really unique and I was really taken aback pleasantly by like, whoa, they're really going there with this storyline. This is great.

[00:09:26] This is cool because we had the, oh wait, I have to be careful about what we're doing because we're on the timeline podcast. Yeah, you can't go to the OT or the PT. Right. Other shows. I will leave you with a dark saber sound. Perfect.

[00:09:41] Is that what that was? I was wondering how it was. It was a shout out to Bob because he's the one who pointed out how cool it sounds. Very good. So anyway, this is exciting and I think it's very cool

[00:09:53] and I think it's going to upset some people out there, people who are not fans but people who think that they are fans and I'm here for them to be annoyed by this because this is great. This is where we want our stories to go.

[00:10:14] And I think there's, go ahead. I just wanted to add that I love this line of thinking and it's a line of thinking that I was thinking of too because this episode really emphasizes the way the Jedi fit into the imperialist nature of the Republic.

[00:10:35] And the way the Jedi had this mindset of our way is the way and your way is wrong. And while the Jedi have largely been painted as, I can't talk about later but while they are painted as perhaps independent of the Republic in a lot of ways,

[00:10:58] I think they very much are in line with the imperialist tendencies of the Republic that lead to later events. Yeah, I mean Leslie Hedlin, the showrunner pointed out that this is a, that the Star Wars in general is a story about the underdog and at this point

[00:11:16] in history the Jedi are not really the underdogs. They are the dominating force. They along with their close lines but the Galactic Republic are the dominating force in the galaxy. Yeah, right.

[00:11:30] And I think this segues nicely into a couple of key lines that we heard in this episode that really crystallized a lot of these thoughts for me. The first, and apologies if the lines are not exactly verbatim,

[00:11:45] I didn't get a chance to go back and review the episode. So these are close, pretty close approximations. And the first one is deranged monks. Referring to the Jedi as deranged monks. And I'm like, is that the best line ever? That was just awesome.

[00:12:04] I absolutely laughed out loud. It was just like I almost spit my tea out. And it's a great summation of the Jedi, right? There are a bunch of monks and aesthetics who have these really weird things that they do. Not only creating all of these unnatural structures,

[00:12:31] but this very rigid internal social order. But then also taking other people's kids away from them. But Saul said they don't. What's that? Well... But Saul said that they don't. We don't steal kids. We just show them candy and ask if they want it. Exactly.

[00:12:51] We just hand them lightsabers and be like, want one? Someone compare that to handing a kid a loaded gun. I was like, yeah. Absolutely. The next one was, I believe June says this, destiny is not decided for you by an anonymous force.

[00:13:11] This idea that even though he's a Jedi and part of this order, he's also pointing to something about agency. Your destiny is not determined by us Jedi or other people, but that you as an individual have some sort of voice or say in your life.

[00:13:33] And if the force is calling you, so to speak, to use that phrase, then that's for you and the force to work out, right? You know what your ultimate destiny is. And can we get you there? Can society help you move forward?

[00:13:48] So that was a really interesting line. Relative to everything else that's going on, this one also caught me, which is you'll never feel like this again, I promise, which is typical Jedi bullshit, right? They're making promises that you just can't follow through.

[00:14:06] But isn't that like typical parents bullshit? Like isn't that something that every parent wants to tell their child? And it seems clear that Saul immediately adopted May the moment he clapped eyes on her. Which is one of the this relationship between these two and these two actors,

[00:14:25] both children, child actors and adult actors. The chemistry here is great. And I just love this bonding. And I love June's vibe. And there's a whole world of talking about parental stuff in this, particularly this episode.

[00:14:42] Anyway, the last line, which I think is the thesis of the show, and it's something that really grabbed me and would sort of lit this fire. And I had to come on and say something, which is, I believe it is, what's your name?

[00:15:01] Mother, I'm sorry, I don't have it in front of me. Mother, I'm on a say. It's Coral, okay. Oh yeah, Coral is the one who carried them. On a say is the leader.

[00:15:09] Yeah, so I believe it's on a say who says this is about power and who gets to use it. Boom, right there, right? Who are the Jedi to say that your destiny is this? Who are the Jedi to say we deny you your feelings?

[00:15:27] You're never going to feel like this again. Who are the Jedi? They're a bunch of deranged monks. And on a say is calling it out and saying this is about power and who can use it. And when we look at that in a modern context,

[00:15:42] and we look at traditional ways of knowing versus Western or scientific ways of knowing, all of these are systematized ways of, I don't want to say interrogating is not the right word,

[00:15:56] inquiring as to how the world works and where did we come from and where are we going. And then trying to package that in a way so that we can affect how we're living now.

[00:16:07] So, oh well, we know that this plant has this effect because we've been eating it for millions of years and of our evolution and we've learned something about it. We've been able to develop technologies and machines that allow us to appear to the subatomic levels and measure forces.

[00:16:28] But we can also have stories and understandings about whether or farming or whatever it may be, human beings were inquisiting, we're inquiring into the world, creating systems to hold that knowledge and then be able to use that knowledge for whatever

[00:16:45] our gains are. And when you hold power and when you hold knowledge, you're restricting and you're dampening other people's agency and you're ultimately controlling them. And so this whole dynamic between, and this is what's going on. And if you as a fan are like,

[00:17:03] oh, this is all social justice, you're blind to what the world is. Where we're billions of people with so many different understandings and cultural histories and ways of understanding the natural world

[00:17:20] and the world that we live in and our social world. And so for this show to be going there, I'm like, wow, this is a really big swing for a property that has traditionally been very

[00:17:33] conservative. I don't know that I necessarily agree that it's been conservative because it was originally conceived as, well, yeah, not to be spoilery, but the original film is a nod to events in Vietnam in the 70s. Sure, in the original films, a lot of things.

[00:17:53] John Lucas has been a social justice warrior if you want. Sure. Yeah. Well, that's why he created the Jedi here. The moment that Disney spent, what was it, $4 billion or however much it was to buy this,

[00:18:06] it has become a conservative institution because they're trying to show value for their purchase. And I mean, we look at the number of films that have been canceled, the number of actors who've come

[00:18:19] in who, oh, so and so is going to be in a film. Oh no, that film's not going to happen. And that's when you say conservative, do you mean lack of risk taking? Is that what you're

[00:18:27] trying to say or politically conservative? Because I've got no lack of risk taking within the story. Okay, that I would agree. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. In animation, they're risk averse, not conservative. There you go. I'm phrased that.

[00:18:40] Yeah, that's better. In animation, they've been able to take more risks, which is why they're, that's why some of the best storytelling is there. Yeah. All right. Yeah, it's lower stakes, right? And it had different production values attached to it and

[00:18:56] all that kind of stuff. So when you put a movie on a big screen, that's going to have a different value when Force Awakens came out. Man, everybody was enlivened and we're at the theaters. Yeah, we'll litigate the sequel trilogy much later.

[00:19:11] I too enjoyed A New Hope. Anyway, yeah, yeah, I agree with you. I think that there's been some risk averse stuff, although again, I am a last Jedi defender and I think that there were risks

[00:19:26] right now. Yeah, like yeah, overall, I'm saying overall, I'm not talking about an individual prop thing, but when this Star Wars story and the sequel movies were all announced, it was going to be like, oh, we're going to get all of these expansions on film into other

[00:19:47] parts of the universe. And we started to see some of it with the TV shows. But so many projects have been announced and then canceled. So many actors have been announced and then didn't detached and what have you. So overall, when you compare to Star Trek,

[00:20:02] which has really figured out what the different lanes are and is actually putting out a lot of product and you can say what you want about the product, they're doing stuff. Sorry just doing stuff, but on the streaming side, they've yeah, they need to get back in

[00:20:15] theaters. Yeah, but even there, they tried and whatever. Anyway, there could be more. The point is that this show, I think to me is surprising. I'm like, whoa, wow, they're taking a swing here and they're letting Leslie Hedlin do something that I don't think

[00:20:38] they would have let other directors do. And I'm here for it. I'm applauding it and I'm excited by it. And I think that if we're going to start talking about these ways of knowing and access to power and who can use power, that is an interesting question.

[00:21:00] Right? Just, oh more space wizards with laser swords. But oh no, who are these people and why are they being quote unquote persecuted or why were they exterminated? That's an interesting question. So anyway, those are my thoughts. The last thing I just want to say is hashtag

[00:21:19] Force Babies. Is that where you're going with is the immaculate, I can't say the words. Immaculate conception. Yeah. No, no, no, I was gonna say something else. Oh, you were gonna say, yeah, no, I mean, obviously this is something we're going to

[00:21:34] discuss more in our spoiler. I don't know the wider can. Yeah, obviously this is linked to a character we meet in the next era. Mm hmm. So anyway, you can tell I'm activated by the show in the best possible way.

[00:21:50] Yeah, no, absolutely. Oh great, these are cool topics. Let's go. Freshman show, we've got some things to work out still but they're going somewhere and that makes me happy as a Star Wars fan that they're striking out into new territory and saying new

[00:22:06] things. And they're making us ask new questions about people who don't like sand. No, Zaria, I'm good there. Yeah, okay. Well, thank you. I mean, I am with John and predicting that you will be back on the mic talking about this again in the very near future.

[00:22:26] As is my wanton right. He can't resist. No, I can't resist it. That's the best compliment the show can get. Exactly. I thought, oh well maybe I'll send in a little audio diary or voice mail thing or something

[00:22:42] like that. And I was like, no, no, no, I can actually say something. But you brought up some great themes and I'm curious to what you guys had to say. So I appreciate that. Yeah, what are you guys? I'm curious to see your hot takes.

[00:22:53] What was your hot take? I thought it was the best episode yet for sure. I mean, I was surprised we got a full flashback episode so early because I thought we were

[00:23:04] going to keep going down this timeline but they were like, no, this entire episode is going to be in the past and that was really great. I actually did enjoy the twins acting. I thought

[00:23:14] that they did a really good job of feeling like genuine siblings and they are genuine siblings, right? They are twins so it's easy to feel like that. But what was interesting was watching these two characters be so different from the beginning. And I was talking about this

[00:23:32] on the Discord how Mae clearly thinks that the Jedi are solely at fault for what happened and is in complete denial that there was division between her and her sister before the Jedi even got there. Right. When there clearly was, right? I mean,

[00:23:47] I mean the minute that we see them they're already arguing. Totally. And Mae is trying to push, it's interesting because Mae is trying to push Osha to adopt her way of thinking.

[00:23:59] But Osha doesn't do the same thing for Mae. She's not like, you don't want to be a witch. She accepts she's like my sister's place might be here and that's okay but my heart's calling

[00:24:09] elsewhere basically. I don't want to be on the brindock forever. That's why Mae is closer to the dark side because she's being more possessive, less Buddhist. Right. She's trying to impose her will upon others. Yeah. And that's very sad and you're conflicted, right? Because you

[00:24:27] have Mother Anasea who really just wants her children to stay home. She totally understand that as a parent. Yeah. But then she also is kind of like maybe I will let you go with the Jedi.

[00:24:40] I think she's more open to the idea of if Osha doesn't want to do that, then she doesn't have to. Right. And Mother Coral is like no, we have to do everything by the book.

[00:24:52] Which we can totally see and I can look around at other parents you might know and go, oh yeah, I could see these bottles. They really depicted a family dynamic very well. Right. Yeah. She's explicitly very thorny. You said it, Tommy. But anyway, she's an interesting character.

[00:25:12] I did really like the ritual. I thought that the whole time I'm watching, I'm like, we got to get Marilyn on this podcast at some point. Yeah. I'm sensing a clacking of a keyboard. The force is a long email is being generated.

[00:25:30] I will say I'm on Team Clone Babies. I think they are clones of Mother Anasea that were carried by Mother Coral. Okay. That's where I'm at. But other than that, I mean, you said what? Force Babies or Clone Babies. It does play into setting up later lore.

[00:25:54] Yeah. And I don't recall. Is cloning outlawed in the High Republic? Oh, not that I'm aware of. Why did you remember that from one of the books? No, no, no. I just, I'm thinking of things later in the timeline.

[00:26:09] Well, I mean, I know that because we talked about, why I guess they're not really in, we talked about a race from the Old Republic that were cloners. Although I'm, I think they're like referenced in Canon, you know, like in a reference book, but not

[00:26:21] confirmed, confirmed. Anyway, I'm on Team Clone for now because I have to be a contrarian on this. Right. Okay. But, but yeah, I mean, I thought great episode. I'm so impressed by Sol. I can't

[00:26:34] remember the name of the actor. But he's just incredible. Yeah. And the fact that he learned English for this role is just amazing to me because he's a good at emoting in English.

[00:26:46] I was like, huh, you know, I was curious because I had watched the original Squid Game and then I heard the thing that he had learned English for this and his, his ability to emote on screen is incredible. Absolutely incredible. It's palpable.

[00:27:03] Yeah. And I was really loving. I think one of my favorite moments is when he takes off his lightsaber and in Dara doesn't sense his intentions yet. She goes, don't Sol. And Sol just hands it to me and just goes, I think you would make a good Jedi.

[00:27:23] It was just so warm and fatherly and lovely. And it's the kind of feels that I want from Star Wars. It just is. I mean, watching the Jedi just flirt with attachment, right? They crave it. They crave attachments because everyone as a

[00:27:43] humanoid, I'm going to say humanoid because they're all different species in this. Everyone is a humanoid needs relationship and the Jedi order has denied that to them. Or restricted it in ways that are deranged maybe, if you will.

[00:28:03] Yeah, but I mean it denies them honest relationship, right? Like they have these parental child relationships that are framed as mentor. Like I can't say anything, but you know, like masters and apprentices are constantly like this. They take in children at such a young age.

[00:28:21] So of course they see them as children, you know, and you can't help but feel protective and especially if you don't have your own children because of your Jedi restrictions. Where do you send that? I'm so heartbroken that Yoda has like watched a million generations

[00:28:39] that I come and go. One source book said he trained 20,000 Jedi personally. That's the same, but I believe it. I believe it. There was a Yoda POV chapter in the book I

[00:28:51] was reading last night and that was excellent. Well, I think this goes into this question of again, who has agency in choosing determining your destiny? And if people want to, if people look at the Jedi

[00:29:09] order and go, that's cool, that's for me, that's one thing. But then when you cruise around and you scoop up anybody who's Force sensitive under the age of six or whatever their cutoff is

[00:29:20] and remove them from their family, that's a different thing. I mean, the line or the whole situation when they were like, oh, you've got, you know, you can't be training Force sensitive babies. They have to come with us. That was shocking. Right? That was like, whoa.

[00:29:37] Well, reminds me of we talked about in the old Republic of Review episode, the Beren d'Osages and they basically died out because the Jedi kept taking their most talented kids. Wow. I have to say, Alicia, when I was watching this, I had the Jonah Hill meme, the excited

[00:29:56] meme or when we saw the Coven and when we knew that we were going to go with the Coven and I was like, Alicia is probably just freaking out right now. I hope you enjoyed what they're

[00:30:08] doing. No, obviously, this was an episode for me, which Lore Galore. And I would say I've seen people who are upset that this episode didn't explain everything and I would say to them like, we have

[00:30:22] five episodes left. So don't worry, we're going to be seeing these events from at least one more perspective, at least mays perspective. I'm thinking the Jedi is most likely as well.

[00:30:32] And yeah, I think that the lore here does work with what we've seen so far. It doesn't take away any chosen status of anyone later in the timeline, but it may explain some things that happen later

[00:30:47] in the timeline or have proven to be the inspiration for events that happen later. So that's just adding richness to this overall tapestry of story. And I just have to call out how many quote unquote self-proclaimed true fans seem to have no idea that Star Wars has had

[00:31:03] witches since 1994. So yeah, the haters came out strong with this episode and that sort of sort of took the wind out of my sails for a second. But I just I rewatched it right before

[00:31:16] we recorded and I'm like, yes, this I love this episode. There's so much interesting detail in there. So much to pick into. I also watched a really interesting interview with with part of the acolyte cast with Daphne Keane, Manny Yusinto and Charlie Barnett. And they were talking about

[00:31:35] Headland's collaborative backstory building, which I found really interesting. So we find out that basically Daphne Keane decided that Jackie comes from a poor background. And that for her, the Jedi order was a way out. And so it's interesting because when you

[00:31:52] know that you can see that in her performance, how that informs certain character decisions. And we also found out that Yord is from Alderaan. Nice. Yeah, I am very grateful for the discord because you were saying the wind's taken out

[00:32:10] of your sail a little bit when you look at the fan reaction. Don't don't call him fan. Quote fan, quote fan. Yes, yeah. Self proclaimed. Yeah, yeah. Gatekeeper, gatekeepers here. Yeah, sure, sure. And I really am grateful to see like real conversations happening in our

[00:32:26] discord that are related to like these conversations that we're having right now. Right, exactly. Yeah. The morality of the Jedi taking children. I remembered what I was going to say before

[00:32:38] when we had to edit out me losing my train of thought, which was I have a lot of trouble accepting that it's morally okay for the Jedi to allow a child to decide to leave their family

[00:32:54] behind, which is a permanent decision. And accept this way of life at a very young age. I mean, think about modern day reality. We don't want kids. We have a lot of issues right now where people are saying, why are we letting 18 and 17 year

[00:33:09] old sign student loans? That's a big decision. That's a lot of debt for a career that might not work out. And this is what she's at eight right now. I mean, come on. And consider too old. Yeah.

[00:33:22] Right, right. And so I just don't know, especially without parental consent when the parents are actively opposing this. I don't think that's right. I don't think that they are in the right here. I think they are waving shiny toys in front of kids and saying you want one.

[00:33:40] Right. But then there's this question of how we infantilize our children as well. Our children are far more capable when they're infants, they're infants, but we socially relate to them. We infantilize them and we speak down to them. And there's a way of, I think,

[00:33:59] of relating with children to recognize that they're far more capable. Yes, they're children. I'm not saying, give them driver's licenses. But when I have conversations with my eight year old, I'm constantly astonished by her ability to articulate her feelings,

[00:34:17] her thoughts, her desires. And yeah, when there's something that's extra special on the table, like many kids are, ours is very treat motivated. So when it comes to ice cream or cake or whatever,

[00:34:36] there is an outsize and that's part of my job as a parent is to manage and moderate that. But she's still articulating something. And if I don't recognize the articulation, but even in larger things about playing sports and activities and extracurricular

[00:34:53] activities and all that kind of stuff, there's far more going on. And so it's our job, like our job as a parent is to be present to our kids and to listen to them. And so when you hear

[00:35:06] your child repeatedly going, I really like this Jedi thing. I'm really attracted to what's going on here. Listen to that and then understand that unfortunately, there's no way to go to like junior Jedi camp on the whole planet where it's a half day force training camp or something.

[00:35:22] We're just going, we're like right on the top of the ties. They sever the ties. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. We're right on the cusp of getting into summer and camps and all of this kind of stuff.

[00:35:31] And so that's where my head is at. I mean, they did they go to Jedi camp. They just never come back. They never come back. Yeah. But being present to your kids and listening to what they

[00:35:41] have to say because she's clearly articulating justice, peace, order, helping people, protecting people. That is a natural instinct that some people have. And in our modern context, that could be translated into military service, into civilian law enforcement service. It could

[00:36:00] go into medical care, there's a lot of different expressions. And if that particular child is like, wow, this Jedi order thing, I want to explore and understand what that is. That's a valid that's a child expressing something internally and we got to be present to that.

[00:36:20] So I'm really on a rant on this show. Are you on team Coral? They should not have gotten spice creams or are you on team Anasea? They should have gotten spice creams. Look, if it's a special day, we can relax and if it's,

[00:36:37] I mean, we're having an ice cream social at our house today after school. So, you know, I'm on team ice cream. David, I agree with some of what you said. I don't agree with all of it. I think absolutely we should be validating our children's opinions

[00:36:52] and whatnot. I think where I take issue with this particular situation is the permanence of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But because we don't have Jedi half day force training camp, it's like all of nothing. That's an impossible situation.

[00:37:06] Right. I went to science camp a couple of times as a kid, right? And I went to Boy Scout camp for a week every summer. But I didn't live there for the rest of my life in disowned

[00:37:15] my parents. Yeah, right. And that's where I think the Jedi go wrong is this failure to allow attachments leads to dishonesty with oneself and I would say conflict. Right. One might say internal conflict. The heart with itself maybe. Yes.

[00:37:35] So I just have to, yeah, we got to get into the episode breakdown because we got a dense episode. 37 minutes into the podcast. But I just want to call out a couple last general things. Speaking

[00:37:53] of our lively discord, Athena Agilea made a good observation about the episodes last week. She said, I think with soul and I may be misreading, but he was trying to assess her fighting style to

[00:38:06] know who trained her. Sorry, I was thinking about this more last night. I would think at this point they're thinking rogue Jedi, not a Sith. So they may be looking for common features in Jedi

[00:38:15] training. So I think that's interesting that just to know that we're at the level in Star Wars combat where indeed for a long time and evolving every character has their own style. But

[00:38:26] now we have a character who's looking at other characters to be like, what's your style? Who trained you? Which goes back into my comment that I sent in for, I forget it was an episode one

[00:38:36] about the fighting like Wushu Kung Fu fighting styles and how that was depicted in movies, pulp style movies. Yeah. As I was growing up, it was, oh, cream style, tiger style, oh, I studied under this master. That was a really important detail. And it was part of

[00:38:52] your lineage and it created a, it's a craft. Not just a random thing you do, but there's an actual social history around it. Yeah, no. And the references to movies in general have been off

[00:39:08] the chart. Leslie Headlin is definitely a movie nerd. And so we got like straight up references to the fugitive and kill Bill so far. And apparently there's alien and predator episodes coming up. So loving that aspect of the show too. You may be hearing from me again on

[00:39:27] my force vision says yes. Oh yeah, my force vision says we still got a lot to talk about. So I think we're going to take a quick break and I guess David you need to hop off and start your ice cream social planning

[00:39:43] and run with it. Yeah. Yeah, I have to feed my child force screams. And for the listeners we'll be right back after a quick break to talk about the scene by scene analysis.

[00:40:18] All right. And we are back and ready to break down episode three, Destiny. This time the writers credited were Jasmine Flournoy and Eileen Shim. Interestingly, Shim also wrote an episode of House of the Dragons season one. So there seems to be some crossover talent going between

[00:40:35] these two shows. And people are very excited about the director's Konaga, a South Korean director best known for the 2017 film Columbus and I know him for after Yang a 2021 film about artificial intelligence in the family. Okay. And he's also going to be directing episode seven of this

[00:40:55] season. Oh, okay. So we got we got some repeat contenders. Yeah, no it seems like they have a you see the writers are often credited for multiple episodes too like they're really working

[00:41:07] together it's a team for sure. So we open the episode on her home planet of Brenda can eight year old OSHA steals a private moment under the beautiful buttoxic Bunta tree where her

[00:41:19] sister may finds her playing with a jelly butterfly creature may admonishes her for sneaking out of their compound and the girls bicker about their coming ascension ceremony as they walk through the woods where they are confronted by one of their mothers. A younger Jedi master soul

[00:41:35] sneaks through the woods spying on them. So did you notice when we swept in on the planet that there were some standing stones there, which we've seen. We saw standing stones on that

[00:41:46] later in the timeline on Tython one of the Jedi origin planets. But that must be a place strong with the force. Right, right. Yeah, I didn't think about that but that's a good call.

[00:41:58] I do wonder if that means because they say the planet's unoccupied now but it seems like there must have been people living there before what happened. Right, right. And does the dark side have something to do with it? There was there was a pit and we've known that

[00:42:13] where there is a pit, there is a problem. Right. Yeah, something about it's funny because you would think like the earth is wholesome and definitely with witchcraft. I mean, it's very connected in

[00:42:25] our real world which craft is connected with the earth. And but yes, it's painted as a dark thing always to have this whole into the earth. So I have some thoughts on that later.

[00:42:35] So we have the Bunta tree here. We finally get to see the tree itself. The dried leaves looks red to me but they're yellow on the tree and they're like draped in a weeping style. Like

[00:42:44] my favorite tree is a weeping cherry. I don't know if you have a favorite tree, John. I haven't thought about it but I'll get back to you next week. I'll choose a favorite tree

[00:42:55] before the end of the season. Yeah, a lot of tree motifs in Star Wars so there's time to talk. But yeah, I agree with you. I thought that the girls, the young actresses names are

[00:43:07] Leah and Lauren Brady. I thought they did a great job like maybe sometimes a little hammy because they are young kids but I think that they nailed like the emotional moments, their facial expressions were really important for me. It worked for me. And I found it, yeah,

[00:43:24] heartbreaking to the call back at the end of the episode so when she says here, I always know to look for you under this Bunta tree. Not anymore. Yeah. Not anymore. Yeah, that was really heartbreaking. Oshie? Oshie? Isn't that what she says?

[00:43:40] Yeah, Oshie. She just wants your sister back. I feel so terrible for Mae but also she's like a terrible sister to her sister the whole time. Right. She's clinging too hard. Yeah. Well, even like she comes and she immediately screams dark side, right? Like the way she's

[00:43:57] manipulating the jelly was... But this is a question because this is from Oshie's perspective this whole episode. We noticed that at certain points. Oshie uses her force on the jelly fly too first. Like she uses it to hold it longer but then Mae,

[00:44:16] it somehow is worse but yeah. I think of how some Jedi are capable of communing with animals and sort of befriending them through the force. Right. And others try to control them through the dark side. And I think what we're seeing here is at least from this perspective,

[00:44:39] Oshie's using the light side to interact and Mae is using the dark side. Yeah. I mean, I don't know because we also see... We get this contrast here where Oshie sees the beauty in the Bunta tree and Mae sees a danger because the leaves are poisonous and she's

[00:44:57] like, well, I just won't eat the leaves. But that seems to maybe be an analogy for how they both view the Jedi because at this point actually Oshie is drawing a Jedi insignia in her journal

[00:45:12] even though she hasn't seen one yet so she might be getting some sort of force visions. But then you contrast this with later where Oshie seems a more fearful one like when they are defending themselves during the coven practice session. Oshie is hiding behind Mae.

[00:45:28] So is there some unreliability in narration here or are there inherent differences in which thing that they're afraid of but they both have fear? That's a good question and I wonder if it's because... You see, here's the thing. They're force pushing which has always been to me

[00:45:46] a pretty force neutral thing like not a light nor dark side ability. But it just seems like Oshie doesn't want to fight. Oshie just doesn't want conflict. She just wants to chill and I vibe with that. I totally understand where she's coming from with

[00:46:02] that so it's a shame that she's pushed into this whole thing. My heart breaks for Oshie this entire episode the way that she goes, I do when she's asked if she wants to accept her.

[00:46:16] It's just really... She's just pushed into this and how many people do we know in real life who are pushed into... Right, the family business or whatever. Right, the family business, the family religion, this and that and it speaks truth.

[00:46:31] This has an internal inherent truth in it. Right. I mean, I both understand and don't understand both of them because on the one hand I'm like, I want to be an awesome force witch but then on the other hand I'm definitely... Oshie is reminding me

[00:46:48] of a Gwain from the Wheel of Time where she just wants to go out and see the world and that's definitely me. So I can relate to both of them and it's sad to see how their differences pull

[00:47:04] them apart but yeah... You relate to both of them because they're the same clone? But then this is the thing, what if they are such contrasts, two different sides of the Yin and Yang, the Oshie and the Bogum? Could they have been...

[00:47:21] They couldn't have done better than Bogum, huh? This is from Legends. They just couldn't have done better, huh? I don't know who first made up that one. I'm hoping they retcon that one because they did fix... It's already in Canon.

[00:47:38] I don't like that. I don't like that because I do like some of the Canon changes. I like how they changed it from red lightsabers being synthetic kyber crystals to bled kyber crystals. That's a really cool change. Anyway, not for this podcast.

[00:47:51] Right. Yeah, so I did notice they do the whole rhyme again. They... You're with me, I'm with you. Always one but born is two. As above sits the stars and below lies a sea. I give you you and you give me me. And I noticed that again

[00:48:05] it's May still giving Oshie Oshie both times they say it, the way they repeat it back and forth. So I don't know if there's anything to that but it's interesting.

[00:48:15] And it seems like they always say it that way because that's the way that they said it in her vision, flashback vision in the previous episode. Yeah, I wonder what their true relationship is.

[00:48:30] Right, exactly. Yeah, are they a dyad or are they even clones of each other somehow or one entity split into two? But anyway, yeah, speaking of visions, I just find it interesting to note that Vernestra the one character who was chosen to be brought over from the

[00:48:46] High Republic books also gets force visions. Just feels worth mentioning. No idea if that'll play into anything going forward. Yeah, I'm looking forward to getting to her in the timeline because I'm almost done with Arrow 2 because I've been a maniac because you did something to me.

[00:49:02] But yeah, I want to see more. I want to see more Vernestra. I mean, the High Republic is kind of low-key becoming my favorite era right now just because it feels so fresh and open with possibility and there's so much

[00:49:16] like diversity and force users and what's going on in the galaxy. I mean, I haven't been as, I haven't felt this threatened by a threat in the Star Wars universe as I have with a weapon of the path.

[00:49:35] With, I mean you can talk about the what the name was, the leveler. Yeah. The leveler is honestly, I think the scariest villain in Star Wars. Yeah, absolutely. I've seen it in a while. Yeah, and then well, yeah, I won't spoil what happens, but there's more.

[00:49:52] Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure that this is not over. I'm halfway through the last adult novel for the Arrow 2 and then I have the last YA novel for Arrow 2. And if anyone doesn't know what we're talking about, you can listen to the

[00:50:06] High Republic overview when we talk about the leveler. So yeah, so this is, my notice is by far the longest section of the notes. We got to talk about that Coven Core life. You gotta.

[00:50:19] So back in the Mountain Fortress, the pair are scolded by their Zabrak mother Coral, who will find out was the one who actually carried the twins. And Mother Anasea, who we later learned somehow created the twins and Coral's womb,

[00:50:32] coddles them. The two women talk alone about the off-world Jedi moving inland. At a Coven meeting, the girls get a lesson in the thread connecting all things, their version of the Force, and how they are stronger together. Anasea promises a great show of power at that night's Ascension,

[00:50:49] but the girls aren't listening back to bickering in the background. So Anasea force pushes them down, saying the enemy won't give them warning. They need to be ready. When the mothers ask the girls to practice their self-defense, Mei holds strong while Oshua cower behind her sister, disappointing them.

[00:51:05] And then later in private with Anasea, Oshua expresses her doubts again, saying she doesn't want to become a witch. Mei, on the other hand, is eager. Anasea and Mei, poo poo Oshua's doubts reassuring nobody. So we have to first talk about we have a Zabrak in the room.

[00:51:22] And so Zabrak are like if anyone who knows Maul, Maul's a Zabrak. They're basically the horned stripy peeps. And I love that species. I think they're so cool. They are so cool. The lore is a little hazy because the Clone Wars kind of complicated

[00:51:40] things without a clear explanation by creating this distinction between so the Zabrak originally from Erdonia and then in the Clone Wars we get the Zabrak linked to the Night Sisters and the Night Brothers who are from the Deathamir,

[00:51:58] so currently the hazy explanation is that deathmere female Zabraks don't have the horns just because basically the Night Sisters don't. But to be honest, that could easily be retconned to be better explained. Yeah, I would be fine with them being from another galaxy or

[00:52:16] something like that. I know there's perhaps suggestions of that now. Well, I don't know. Yeah, maybe. Well, maybe from somewhere called Planet X. Yeah. So it looks like Coral has a Zabrak markings which it's unclear in the lore whether

[00:52:35] they're natural or tattoos. But yeah, they still need to smooth out that lore. But in any case she seems to be an Erdonian Zabrak and the interesting thing about them so they are evolved to be tough creatures in a tough world fiercely independent can be off-puttings.

[00:52:54] Some familiar to any characters who's on this episode. And Doctor Who fans, they have two hearts which makes them more physical. It helps them pump their blood better to optimize for parts. And there seems to be a slightly higher occurrence of horse sensitivity in the

[00:53:13] species because we know some that become Jedi, Sith, witches. They're generally allied with the Galactic Republic though but obviously not in this case. But the interesting thing is that there's all kinds of species in this coven

[00:53:27] which kind of shows signifies maybe they didn't come from the same place. Maybe they are unified by an ideology? What do you think? I like that. I like that a lot. I am very curious. I mean, they said since our exiles,

[00:53:44] so they seem to have been in the same place for a while. Yeah. I do wonder when they came here because my theories, they didn't build the compound they're in just like I don't think they did the Standing Stones. I think that this is from an older

[00:53:59] civilization that was there. I agree with that. I think... I'm trying to figure out how to say this without spoiling future events. I think that there are many places that have mysterious artifacts. For something that I can mention, the Jedi statue on Jetta. The

[00:54:20] mysterious Jedi statue that just appeared. I think there clearly were other force sensitive populations on these planets that no longer live there. Right. Exactly. I also have to call out the two actresses who play the two mothers. We have Margarita

[00:54:39] Lviva as Coral. I didn't know her before, but she's a really fascinating woman. Russian-born, moved to the US as a child, was a competitive rhythmic gymnast and then became worked in fashion for a while, graduated with double major in economics and

[00:54:56] psychology with minors in philosophy, sociology, and Russian history. Damn, this is an interesting woman. And Jodie Turner Smith. A lot of hats. A lot of hats. A lot of hats. A lot of hats. And Jodie Turner Smith.

[00:55:07] It's hard. Also, sorry, I'm going to make a stupid joke now. It's also hard to wear hats with all those horns. They have to wear special. So yeah, Jodie Turner Smith is also great. She seems to be in a lot of stuff these days.

[00:55:22] Are you familiar with her? No, I'm not. A lot of people saying they want her in the wheel of time after this performance. Yeah, I could see that. I'm thinking about who she could be, but my mind is so far from

[00:55:35] the wheel of time right now, it's hard. Yeah, no. We're in a different galaxy far, far away. So yeah, and then we also get introduced to this concept of the thread that we alluded to in our opening conversations seems to be the commonst name for the force.

[00:55:49] And they say it's tied to one's destiny and binding them to others. And of course, this makes us think of the fates from Greek mythology, which we already got a more direct reference to in Ahsoka,

[00:56:01] which takes place later in the timeline where we meet three mothers who are actually named after the three fates. In this case, it seems like there's more. It's not about three. It's more about two. The power of one, the power of two, the power of many.

[00:56:15] Yeah. Oh man, I love the chant. The power of many. That's great. That's great. I could do that all day. And they also, they seem to use threads like the thread here is the force itself.

[00:56:32] And of course, yeah, but they love to reference the fates because we've got that bird, the owl that follows. Well, that's associated with the light side with Ashla called the morai.

[00:56:43] This is to be clear, this is a different group from the night sisters who are do exist around this time. And this group uses and night sister magic is green and this group's magic is purple,

[00:56:58] which is interesting because I started to think, especially in my rewatch, like why are we assuming that it's all dark side because purple is actually a balance of the light and dark side. And when I

[00:57:10] look closely, there's actually more blue in it than red. There's like distinct strands of blue in their purple. So maybe slightly leaning toward the light even. But also if the night sisters use green, I think the colors are just wild cards at this

[00:57:23] point. Well, I know legends had like their whole definitions thing, but I just don't think Filoni and his minions are interested in that. And I know he's not writing this one, but I think he's kind of the guiding hand on the lore of Star Wars right now.

[00:57:40] I mean, I am wondering if, you know, if he actually is leaning into this or especially because since Leslie Hedlin wrote this and she loves legends, you know, she could have

[00:57:50] brought that in and she just, she says she got the okay to bring in a lot of stuff from legends. We've seen some of it so far. So we talked about in the Acolyte Prep at the, what the lightsabers

[00:58:02] mean quote unquote, but although it's, yeah, it's hazy and canon lore, but blue is most often associated with guardians. Green like we see with the night sisters is more on the cerebral side like the counselors and yellow like we see certain characters have is more the

[00:58:22] sentinels. So the sentinels not to be confused with guardians. That was kind of funny in that interview with Charlie Burnett. He said he requested a green lightsaber and they're like, nope, your gets yellow. So they do seem to care a bit. They're assigning meaning with these.

[00:58:37] Okay, that's interesting. All right, I'm good with that. And I also have to point out that we're going to see a light whip in this show. Sorry, spoiler. And the night sisters also use light whips during the High Republic.

[00:58:50] All right. Someone on Twitter, I have just shout out Roaring the Wookiee at Roaring Jedi on Twitter pointed out that there's a character in a phase three High Republic middle grade novel called Escape from Valo called Gavi and Gavi views the force as threads that all weave

[00:59:08] together like a spider's web and connect everything together. And when he pulls on a thread, he can bend the force to his will. So like when he pulls something to him using the force, he views it as

[00:59:18] pulling a thread. So that's very interesting to note that it's phase three, but that still set almost 100 years before this. Right, right. Yeah, that's cool. I do like different techniques of I like I like when different characters explain the force.

[00:59:34] Yeah. No, I agree. It's because yeah, we've heard it explained even in the show so far as an ocean, a fire, thread. And of course, thread, a lot of people would be upset if we didn't bring up what

[00:59:48] else it reminds us of. Yeah, I see your note there. And I agree to it. I accede to it. Yeah, it's definitely a wheel of time for those who don't know they talk about there's, you know, the

[01:00:04] basically the wheel is a spinning wheel that's spinning like the tapestry of all events. And there are threads and and when the witches in that show, the ice and I channel, there's like threads

[01:00:14] of magic, they're weaving together. But people are saying that the witches in this show remind them of the ice to die in wheel of time. But I actually think the ice to die are more Jedi like

[01:00:25] to me. What do you think? You think the ice to die are more Jedi like I think that's right. I think that's right. They feel like they have a monopoly on the power in that world.

[01:00:35] Yeah. And I will say we can say weave right now because David's not here. So he won't go off on a on a ramp weaving rich tapestry. You're listening, David. Why what's wrong with weave?

[01:00:47] I just think it's funny that like every time somebody says weave, he's like, I'm weaving a rich tapestry of it's funny. It's just funny to me. But yeah, no, I agree with you. I think

[01:00:59] as a power structure, they're very similar. Right. And it does like things they say sound like they could indeed be involved evolved from the path of the open hand and that phase two books that you're reading now. So like they she says we do not use the force.

[01:01:19] We say some call it she said some call it a force and claims to use it, but we know it's not a power you wield which sounds very path of the open hand ish but then maybe like an evolved explanation that allows them to manipulate it anyway.

[01:01:34] Yeah, that's interesting. I was I was thinking about this too, you know, the the path of the open hand, but but they're just so anti force. I can't see them evolving into this.

[01:01:44] Yeah, I mean, they are a spoiler alert for that phase of the books, but they do splinter. So OK, OK, that makes sense then. And I also noticed that the spiral on on say his head and

[01:01:57] May's head as well is actually it's a yin yang symbol. I didn't realize that at first, but there's two little dots in the middle once I got a better look at it in this episode.

[01:02:06] That's cool. I also find it for the people who are theorizing links to like the nihiline stuff, I do have to note that they use titles like well, they have elder mother and scout but then they

[01:02:17] also have an sign which is very much a Navy title. So there does seem to be some nautical ties. I don't know, it could be just like a soup of the anti Jedi groups that went through the

[01:02:31] high republic and shook out into different ways, you know. Yeah. That's interesting. I by the way, on on the splintering of the path of the open hand, please tell me that martyrs on the right side

[01:02:42] of history. I am going to bite my tongue on that. We do talk about her in the high Republic episode. OK, see, I skipped those ones because I didn't want to ruin the books.

[01:02:54] Right. No, yeah, we do. I do straight out spoil. OK, well, I'll I'll re listen to those once I finish all this. So yeah, I didn't think I was going to read all the high

[01:03:05] Republic books, but I have to say everyone they're very good and you should read them. Yeah, I know it is so cool, the world building and then and I think it's great that they got

[01:03:15] like a stable of steady writers. So, you know, it's the same people contributing to this world and they talk to each other and, you know, build a world together. Yep. Speaking of building something together, yeah, that's a power of one power of two power of many.

[01:03:30] It reminded me very much of apes together strong. Yeah. Did you get the feeling that they are not all equally blessed in the force, but then by working together, then they can counteract force users like with that

[01:03:47] demonstration that Anasea gave. Oh, as in they all are force sensitive, but not equally. Is that what you're saying? Or that some of them are not or some of them are maybe not not like naturally so, but you know, can we've seen several characters that can become cognizant

[01:04:09] not saying that they can all manipulate it or just like pick up a lightsaber that's over a feet away on the ground. I think I'm just going to say, I think that

[01:04:22] there are no rules anymore on who can be force sensitive in Star Wars and we should just accept that. We should just roll with it because let's not fight against the tide, the ocean of the force.

[01:04:33] Right. Right. I mean, I think, yeah, they do emphasize multiple times throughout this entire saga that everyone is connected to the force in some ways, just whether or not you can feel and manipulate it is the question. Right. And we hear from Anasea that the ascension is about

[01:04:51] walking through fear and sacrificing a part of yourself, the power of many instead of the power of one. So I just, I hope that they define later exactly what the ascension entails other than getting a spiral in your head. Yeah. That's a good question. Because

[01:05:09] I thought that we're going to have to like dive into that hole. Right. That's what I thought when I saw the hole, I was like, oh God, they're going to have to go down there. It's going to be

[01:05:16] some scary stuff. It's going to be some, some, like some last mission or something. But no, this was just, no, okay, you got to give a tattoo. Right. And sign me up for spice cream.

[01:05:30] Just in general, like, Brendoc seems like a really nice planet to live before the Jedi rudely interrupted, but definitely isolated. But so I didn't realize this. I have to give credit to the holophiles for calling us out. But spice creams are not new. They originated in

[01:05:46] Star Wars Legends where they were first introduced in a, in a reference book, the Gladiums Fantastic Technology, a role playing supplement. And they were introduced in Canon in a different reference book. Inside Editions, Galaxies, Edge, the official Black Spire Outpost Cookbook.

[01:06:07] So we talked in, in the Young Jedi Adventures episode especially about Galaxies, Edge and Black Spire. So I don't know if that's a cool callback. Yeah, I like that. That's funny. I love the

[01:06:21] stupid foods in Star Wars, like Mantelmix in, in a, yeah, that's not that big of a spoiler. Mantelmix in the Bad Batch, you know, like there's, there's a lot of fun little nods to things.

[01:06:33] And of course, if you watch the Star Wars holiday special, you get people getting beers poured into their heads. Like into their head holes on the top. In their head holes. For some reason.

[01:06:44] Hey, that's not Canon though. No, it's not Canon. So I could talk about it. Yeah. Yeah. I have a question though about this whole idea about like the thread being, you're interconnected

[01:06:56] and if you pull, you know, you affect everything. This is why you should be careful, I guess, with using the Force. But when they were doing the Immaculate Force Conception or the Force, or the womb cloning or whatever this was, doing something this big, definitely they implied the

[01:07:14] dark side Force was involved in this. How does that pull on the thread and affect things? Like, are they being kind of hypocritical with that? I'm sure there's hypocrisy in it, just like

[01:07:26] there's hypocrisy in the Jedi. I think that, I mean, I'm of the mind even in the real world that all humans in the real world and humanoids in this world are riddled with cognitive dissonance

[01:07:40] and it just is what it is. Like, we just live with contradictions and that's okay. Like we are built to do that. That's true. It's all right. That's true. What do you think about like the way they painted the Anasea and Coral as parents? We have Anasea

[01:07:55] as the indulgent parents but I do have to say Coral was right, the Jedi saw the girls. Everything she learned about, she was right about. Right. I think Anasea reminds me of

[01:08:07] the mother a little bit in the fact that she's like, oh just trust in the Force. Just trust in the Force and in the end that's not really what was working there. I think if we look at them staying

[01:08:19] home as the good goal then obviously Coral had the better idea. Right. Yeah. Well, everything comes fruition that night. The witches they gather around a mountain crater as two moons come into alignment for the Ascension Ceremony. As the girls get ready for the ceremony,

[01:08:38] Osha expresses a need for more individuality and privacy. She dreams of seeing more of the galaxy while Mei just wants to be with Osha and their coven on Brenda. At the ceremony itself, Mei looks eager immediately accepting the terms to carry on the memory of the coven

[01:08:53] after her mother dies. The spiral we see on her face as an adult takes form. Osha is visibly frightened but also agrees. Only then they are interrupted with the news that the Jedi have broken into the compound. Mother Anasea tells the women readying their

[01:09:08] weapons to stand down and avoid violence. The Jedi Indara comes barging in followed by her at this time Padawan Torban and Saul and Kilnaka. They demand the children who are being hidden by the coven saying it is a violation of Republic law to teach them their ways

[01:09:24] and Osha comes forward to be greeted by Saul who already looks ready to adopt her. Mei is then also called out of the crowd and Indara asks about their father. Anasea says they have none. Saul invites an eager Osha to be tested and trained as a Jedi

[01:09:40] and Anasea takes control of Torban's mind, his eyes turning black as he falls to his knees. She releases her hold only when the Jedi agree to leave but she also reluctantly agrees to allow both of her daughters to be tested the next day.

[01:09:55] First of all I have to call out a lot of people ever since we've started to see more black female characters featured in Star Wars people like where did they get their hair done

[01:10:02] which I always thought was kind of an inane question but here you go there's a scene of these women getting their hair done these girls. Right right yeah no they do with family

[01:10:12] that's great maybe they use the force at some point. Yeah I don't know I mean who does like Queen Amidala's elaborate. I would love to see some force braiding. Yeah. Let's let's do it I'm into that. You're very into like you want to open a force hair salon

[01:10:29] with your did your first client. Oh yeah that'd be great I mean he I feel like if he worked at the hair salon that would be great because he could do it shirtless and everyone would be happy. Oh yeah no extra tips for sure. What about

[01:10:43] what about did you notice Killluck has hairstyle. I didn't even look I was I was too focused on how tall that finish man is. So we we a lot of people were like joking about the bump he's got

[01:10:55] because he's got like the he's got like the front of his hair tied back on top of his head but he's also got the side of his head shaved with some sort of faint tattoos there. I don't think we've seen that hairstyle before. No certainly not from a.

[01:11:13] No so I think we might be I seem to recall some promise of an explanation of that maybe in the comic that's going to come out about him in September. Oh okay okay that would make sense. I did by the way I bought a comic compilation

[01:11:30] of some of the higher republic stuff so I'm excited for that. Yeah see that's why Marvel United is worth it for just having access also to Star Wars and other stuff too. Yeah I might

[01:11:41] subscribe for a month so I don't have to buy all the other ones because it adds up and you're just like I could read these quick. Yeah it does it does and yeah I blow through comics. I really

[01:11:52] like in this scene the exchange between the two girls when they're getting ready. Osha says we are not the same and Mae says of course we are and Osha says no it only feels that way

[01:12:01] because we're the only children here and for me that moment with that line is when it hit me how lonely Osha must feel. Right yeah something broke there too I think between them. Having your sibling reject you especially when you are the only children there I think

[01:12:19] must have hurt a lot. Right and it's your twin you know and everyone's like. Everyone's telling you how similar you are and your twin is like no we're not which I totally understand that because again she wants her individuality which by the way every time I

[01:12:34] say that word I want to say it like Erin and Dairy Girls individuality like she just does it so funny. Speaking of the twin stuff I forgot to mention that the actress who plays Coral

[01:12:46] is a twin in real life and she says like I've never had any of that twin stuff with my brother. Oh interesting that's funny. So how much did the eclipse remind you of the game that we're

[01:12:58] hopefully one day going to get that set during this era? Probably not a link right but wouldn't it be interesting if it was? What do you mean like if you would oh the fact that there is

[01:13:11] an eclipse basically is what you're saying? Well yeah well we also at one point we hear that the they say that like maybe we should attack while the moons are high so apparently

[01:13:22] they get their power from the moon so I'm wondering if there might be someone in the in the game that gets their power from the moon. But like why did they get the power from

[01:13:35] the moon right and we've never seen anybody draw from a specific planet before have we other than some like force planets? I mean the moons do have a gravitational and other

[01:13:47] effects on the planets that they orbit so I can imagine if you do get your powers for the moon it's great to be in a planet with two although that's not actually that many in our solar system

[01:13:56] but um but it is interesting that tithon you know the one of the Jedi home worlds which also would make it a sacred place to the Sith also has two moons and we also

[01:14:10] see that that like standing stone structure on tithon too so I'm not saying this is tithon but it's they're at the very least making us think about tithon with this planet. Right right good call

[01:14:23] we get the full names of the girls Verosha Anasea and May Ho Anasea so there's a cool names I want to be called yeah I would want to be called by my full name um she's Verosha

[01:14:34] Verosha Verosha uh Verosha Verosha yeah yeah I had a great scared face facial expression I do wonder like what does this ceremony practically entail May called it only a ceremony but

[01:14:50] take over when I die I don't know sounds yeah I'm I'm wondering if this is some Harry Potter unbreakable valve stuff you know like are we is this an obligation that like Mother Anasea died

[01:15:04] and May was the only successor name and so now she has to take revenge on the people who were in her head responsible for her death. Hmm oh it's interesting yeah because what is she bound

[01:15:18] to something after her mother dies by that uh you know by that spiral that appears on her head um I think it's interesting it's the first time performing the ceremony since their exile so I guess

[01:15:29] I mean it's notably there's no kids there so I guess um what made them stop being able to have children or did there used to be men in their group yeah lots of questions that I'm hoping

[01:15:42] we get as we re we're definitely going to be revisiting the events of this episode so I'm hoping we get more answers as we get more layers laid on top. Well the night sister is basically keep like a like a stable of men. Yeah exactly.

[01:15:59] To pull from I wonder if on their previous planet they had that right and then when they got exiled for some reason maybe the men revolted they were tired of living in a stable then now they're like what do we do how do we how do we reproduce?

[01:16:15] Mm-hmm yeah that's a question and then some people were wondering if if the you know unnatural conception might have been what got them exiled or if this is something they did after they got to

[01:16:28] this planet. I don't know I I think this was something they did after they got to the planet but that's just that's just my guess. Yeah it's notable that there are repeating triangle

[01:16:41] shapes associated with the coven which I associate with Sith I guess because the Sith holocrons are triangle shapes. Right right so I do wonder if like this might have been a place where Sith lived before on in this base or this planet somewhere because of the force connections.

[01:17:01] Yeah I mean at least if we're considering the old republic canon then they're definitely were like a lot more Sith planets and a lot more Sith forces so definitely I think that's very possible. And you know the fact that Khaimir I was

[01:17:17] hypothesizing that maybe he got his hands on some Sith artifacts maybe this could be the source of them if possibly. Mm-hmm I like that. Something I do know that all players of the Jedi games know

[01:17:30] is that when they talked about them slicing the platform what they mean is basically hacking into it to open it. Yeah I was watching this episode rewatching it with my wife last night

[01:17:40] I had to be like yeah slicing is hacking. Head's hacking rather. Yeah. Yeah because that's just a weird Star Wars word right? Right exactly so now you know if you hear them talking about slicing

[01:17:52] something they've like broken in basically would you call it what made us how she gets out of her room is that slicing when she kind of hot wires whatever that weird portal opening was?

[01:18:04] To me slicing is when you use a droid or a droid arm or a droid arm for some characters to actually like input yourself into the interface like go into the interface.

[01:18:22] I think that's what hacking would be right or is that a different word that I can't think of right now? Yeah I mean is it yeah is it mechanical although it is interesting by the way the fact

[01:18:33] that Osha did that we're seeing the fact that she becomes a mech necklater makes sense apparently she was mechanically minded as a child as well. But yeah I don't know I'm not sure where slice

[01:18:47] it just I know slicing opens doors when you tell your droid to do it in the game. Okay I'm in the canon Wikipedia and it's telling me that a slicer is specifically basically somebody who can hack into things so this is not just

[01:19:05] not just mechanical but computer. Okay and then Anisea calls them out not only for trespassing yeah and Dara's like sorry we thought this planet was uninhabited A first of all yeah Anisea is like basically like lie better bitch but also she was clearly talking about your

[01:19:23] trespassing on our property that you just broke into don't play dumb. Yeah and she goes you can't deny that the first of all she you in Dara's really infuriating her because in Dara says

[01:19:36] oh well Republic all states and she goes this isn't the Republic yeah we're not members of Republic. That's absolutely true like stop yeah again imperialism I brought that up earlier this is absolute imperialism and then oh can we go among your younglings we have the right

[01:19:51] they say that and I think that's where I take big issue with it they say we have the right to test Padawans. Yeah yeah no that rubbed me the wrong way too. Yeah and uh yeah so I totally

[01:20:04] disagreed with how they went about this I mean approaching them as one thing but hacking into them especially like during their religious ceremony I mean think about we consider that work rhymes today when you like attack people on their holidays

[01:20:18] yeah and this this is that right like interrupting a ritual and that's that's terrible I just I I don't like the Jedi at all here Sol is the only one who gets a pass

[01:20:30] and even him he's like he's not perfect either. I'm curious about Konaka I haven't made my up my mind about him I want to like him because of the Wookie Jediness well he

[01:20:40] hasn't said much anyway yeah and he seems like a nice guy when he declined to rip the arms off of those people who intruded on him last episode. Uh funny he just takes the uh takes the blasters

[01:20:52] that's fair did you um did you get a look at his hilt I forgot to look more closely to see whether it was what didn't look either oh yeah okay we gotta pay attention next episode

[01:21:03] but I didn't notice that the hilt are thicker and I looked it up apparently it's because the so the in universe stories like this is back in time the hilt are designed differently fine

[01:21:15] um but it's actually because they changed the way that they film with the lightsaber so they have like these glowing sticks now and they put the battery packs inside the hilt so it helps them

[01:21:26] like be more natural with the way they hold it and use it that makes sense yeah do you think that Anasea that she um messed with Torban's mind because he was the weakest yeah probably especially I think um she recognizes the parental vibe between masters and Padawan and

[01:21:46] she's like okay that one has to braid let's do it right they seem to know about Jed I really they seem to know something about their ways at least so I think they said let's let's uh

[01:21:57] attack the one that they probably feel most protective over right no I think yeah they they probably had run-ins with the jedi before right right perhaps that's part of their exile exactly although it is noticeable that Torban got the black eyes like we saw May get an Oshah's

[01:22:14] vision last week so I'm still watching out like has May been mind controlled at some point in this story right right that's interesting let's take a another quick break and then come back

[01:22:27] to talk about the end of the episode with the testing and everything that goes down after that we'll be right back this summer we enter a new era of star wars you mean the dawn of

[01:22:56] the star wars canon timeline podcast yeah yeah sure that too but I was obviously talking about the acolyte we've got to cover that on the lore hounds oh but the star wars canon timeline

[01:23:06] podcast is exactly at that point in the timeline the end of the high republic 100 years before the prequel trilogy we've got to cover it there why not both okay deal it's the first live action

[01:23:21] star war outside the skywalker saga nobody can miss this listeners kick off your hot lore summer weekends with seem by seam breakdowns of the acolyte found in both the star wars canon timeline podcast and the lore hounds mother feed and the lore hounds star wars feed

[01:23:37] wherever you like to listen a couple of days after each new episode is released as the children sleep after this ascension gone wrong um the adults discuss strategy coral wants to kill the jedi but the rest worry about reprisals from the republic and elders suggest that

[01:24:14] the girls pretend to fail and the next morning both agree to do so Oshah reluctantly may as tested first presumably following the instructions to pretend to fail and then it's Oshah's turn

[01:24:24] she's surprised by a blood test and then asked to identify images on a screen that sol can see and she cannot following instructions she gets the answers wrong intentionally and sol tells her her wrong answers are correct until she slips up starting to say but that's

[01:24:40] not right and i love that hey wait a minute that was supposed to be wrong yeah also i did zoom in on kel maca i i can't tell if i'm looking at a flashlight or a lightsaber but it is metal

[01:24:53] whatever i'm looking at oh no but it looks small so i'm like i don't know if i don't know if that's just a uh you know flashlight or something a tool because he's working on his uh speeder when

[01:25:05] there's a close-up on him well they didn't say wookie's had to have um wooden hilts just they know which is common yeah i because i i think the the line is that like the wookie's are

[01:25:20] uncommon force users like they're uncommon jedi but when they are jedi they commonly uh take a wooden lightsaber right right um but yeah i think that the jedi they obviously already knew that the girls were force sensitive so especially with the blood test it just seems really

[01:25:39] pointless for them to pretend not to be right right well but they also don't know what that's about right like i think that this force cults or force coven does not worry about the blood

[01:25:51] they just worry about the power of many so who do you think would win in a fight the jedi or these witches oh um it seems like the jedi based on the outcome if there was a fight yeah i mean

[01:26:08] yeah well we'll get to what happened there okay so back in the coven compound osha tells anisea that she wants to become a jedi and may gets upset and coral drags may out of the room um and anisea

[01:26:20] tells osha to pull the thread if that's what she wants even though it means they'll never see each other again fear should not make this decision osha she says you should and osha says

[01:26:30] she wants to be a jedi period and anisea hugs her with sad eyes and says she must discuss the situation with the rest of the coven so the the fact she got a blood test seems like no point to

[01:26:42] pretend to fail um but i do question anisea she says as you grow what you want it changes its shifts so this makes me ask would the witches give her more flexibility than the jedi or is she just

[01:26:57] you know trying to pull the threads herself to influence her daughter good question and i i think anisea would give her flexibility i don't think coral would right i i do think that

[01:27:10] there's some like i don't think that the force witches reject the light side i think they just are not afraid of the dark side yeah no i like i said purple i think that they were actually

[01:27:24] using both right so i think i think she's basically saying like if they are both twins or clones or whatever they are uh perhaps the reality is that osha is drawn to the light side and may is drawn

[01:27:39] to the dark right could be and which now i'm looking at kelnaka at a at the premiere and i'm seeing a copper okay of a copperish uh worn what's cool is that you have or could it be

[01:27:55] polished wood no it's definitely it's definitely i'm looking at it it's definitely it looks copperish in the middle like where he would hold it and then it looks gold on the other side so i think

[01:28:06] it's gold plated copper which is pretty great right oh that's cool yeah i like that tail um speaking of we got other details so we found out sol was tested at age four

[01:28:18] which is more typical for the jedi and uh we so this is all he's ever known he barely remembers his parents and we also got a osha like they show her considering whether or not to take

[01:28:31] some stuffed blue horses with her which i guess shows like she feels she's grown up by leaving them behind but a lot of people are wondering if the blue horses they're saying they look like

[01:28:42] they might be from planet x which is a planet in wild space so that's like basically off the edge of the map um we talked about that in previous episodes and that is where the

[01:28:54] leveler comes from oh you talked about earlier this episode yeah i knew i knew it came from wild space because i went on wikipedia for a minute i was i just needed to get an image of

[01:29:04] this thing right it was so like wildly described in the book called it like a cthulhu hound yeah it was bizarre so i was like i need an image for my head and and i saw wild space and i'm like oh that's cool

[01:29:16] that's a cool origin for it yeah so i wonder if this was a hint that these witches have a tie with this planet somehow which in this planet of course had you know the nigh hill

[01:29:28] did stuff there and that's all part of the hyper public books yeah so what went down this is the events that i think we're going to be coming back and visiting a couple more times um but we see it

[01:29:42] this time from osha's perspective she's alone in her room and she packs her bags to go and may comes barging in telling osha she won't let her leave she'll kill her to stop her she locks

[01:29:53] her sister into her room and setting the sketchbook where she drawn the jedi insignia on fire which lights the entrance to her room on fire but osha manages to hotwire this weird portal in her room

[01:30:05] and gets out and she's walking through some underground passages ways and here's a large explosion and then the screams of the coven and then there's an even larger explosion explosion and osha meets her sister in a bridge where in a bridge inside the compound that's been

[01:30:23] blown in half and each stands on one side blaming the other for what's happened and when they fall sol is able to rescue osha but not may and he drags osha out of the complex which is now

[01:30:35] has fire all over the place past a pile of the coven's bodies including mother anisea so yeah i i mean this is obviously we're gonna see this again but like that little door fire

[01:30:48] it doesn't seem like it could be connected with the explosions and what happened to the coven yeah it's a good question and and uh there's there's something missing here i i totally agree with all that speculation this definitely was leaning towards osha's pov and why she trusts

[01:31:09] the jedi because she didn't see them do anything sketch as the kids um but i i wonder who's pov will we will see next i i don't think mays pov will be next episode but i was wrong about this

[01:31:20] episode too i think uh i think we'll see it in a couple episodes i think we need to revisit yeah i think we'll go back to and see what's up with kelnaka in the modern timeline yeah

[01:31:32] yeah but i even wonder like we don't know did the explosion even have anything to do with the witch's deaths if they are dead because sol did not let osha stop and check and they do not seem

[01:31:44] to be burned they just seem to be dead so could they have been poisoned by the bundt and if so by whom and what they all screamed at one point so i don't know i will say even if may didn't

[01:31:59] cause the the whole fire i mean i almost wrote a song of may didn't start the fire um but i i i decided to do a different one there's a hot lore summer song coming i i uh posted about like the

[01:32:14] did the jedi start the fire on threads and then i think like six people responded with with references to that song it's great it's great uh so anyway i may may did start the fire

[01:32:27] she started a fire and with the intent to kill her sister which is pretty dark i mean it's really if i can't have you no one can right which is awful and and very very dark side my god unless

[01:32:40] she was being controlled but her eyes were not black yeah her eyes weren't black i don't think she was being controlled i really don't i think i think may just has this darkness within her

[01:32:50] so one important question though is coral was not in the pile of bodies so where is coral coral coral just i don't know i don't know maybe she joins the the death of miry which is

[01:33:08] it's also very interesting how much soul saving osha here off the edge of the bridge looks like saw saving osha we saw in episode two off the edge of that cliff and someone said that they

[01:33:21] thought they saw um osha's feet get swept out under her when she like weirdly fell off the cliff during that episode so i that seems like a stretch but i'm just pointing it out because what if

[01:33:33] this that was created then by like even indara was standing there what if she did something like that so sol would save osha so the osha would go back to trusting sol in the modern timeline

[01:33:46] yeah that's interesting i mean i don't think that soul i don't think osha did distrust sol already i think she was no i think she felt like she didn't fit in with the jedi i don't think it

[01:33:58] was that she didn't trust them because she even when she's on the prison ship she's like oh i trust the jedi i'll get justice things like that like but she did run after the crash when they were looking

[01:34:07] for her in the wreckage but i think that was not about sol that was about the others that he was with i think maybe she doesn't entrust indara i would believe that yeah yeah i i i think

[01:34:17] that that might be true doesn't really matter anymore indara's gone well yeah but not in the past indara started the fire no i was really glad to get science fiction royalty which i'll introduce her

[01:34:31] as every time uh karyan moss for another episode she was great again yeah and i think we'll get more i also have to point out that she had this time uh she had that one dot next to her eye

[01:34:41] and when we saw her later in the timeline when she died she had two dots next to her eye i don't know what that means but definitely something because why would they do that otherwise

[01:34:51] yeah but okay so the final scenes of this is osha wakes up on the jedi ship on their way to coruscant tended to by sol who informs her that she will be his padawan and when she asks after her

[01:35:03] mother in may she's told they'll be gone i don't think she asked about coral by the way but anyway and meanwhile a suit covered may very much alive shows up at the bunta tree on brandak

[01:35:12] looking for her sister so sol's really the one who solidified the version of events that adult osha has in her head like may start at the fire um everybody's dead started the right i'll resist

[01:35:30] and of course he has that that bullshit line that that david called out you will never feel like this again i promise which is yeah i mean i mean maybe a very tiny child you say that i just

[01:35:42] i don't think that's a responsible thing to say to an eight-year-old maybe maybe it is if you're a jedi and you're literally going to train her not to feel emotion well okay yeah maybe that's a negative

[01:35:50] emotions right maybe uh that maybe that is the point uh you will not feel this again because you won't feel you'll be dead inside no sorry i don't think the jedi are evil i think they're

[01:36:02] complex yeah and i i think that they they have a lot of issues with righteousness and and feeling like they have the only answer and uh that's unfortunate that's unfortunate i'm glad

[01:36:18] that we're exploring those themes finally uh i i i love sol i want him around forever i want to watch a spin-off with him in kwaigon jinn and uh that's all that's all i want to say

[01:36:32] so i have to point out in this last scene where osha wakes up on the ship in the background we see indara and torban um we do not see kalnaka so he's not in sight not seeing anything but

[01:36:44] and we also there is a wound a slash wound down torban's face so we see him scarred when we saw him later in the timeline so he has during these events that's where he got that wound yeah that's

[01:36:57] interesting i mean was there a fight then the other thing is it has to be someone who who was not part of the coven right who is the master who is osha's master because she doesn't know

[01:37:10] who it is or is it one of the coven that put on a that's maize master you mean yeah i mean yeah maize master i'm sorry but yeah it could be anyone inside the mask could be now a lot of people

[01:37:21] are saying coral which i don't know maybe i don't think coral's that vengeful i think coral would have wanted them to leave again you know try to restart i don't know coral is not in

[01:37:32] the bodies at the end so that's true coral story is not done in some way oh boy are we stannising this you don't see someone die so they're not dead hey although always my role

[01:37:44] star wars has been ridiculous with that rule right recently i mean i know even if you see them get a certain recent development and i am too but i'm a little but they said it i've been i always

[01:37:57] said that that was going to happen because they set it up in a certain book with the way they described things okay and obviously we're definitely that book is getting an entire episode to itself

[01:38:07] by the way of course it is a minor spin-off book is going to get a whole episode it's not a minor spin-off book it's an essential book do what you want yeah it's an essential book no

[01:38:20] it's a it's a lot of people's first yeah of course yeah um okay so i want to dip into just a little light trailer based speculation this is going to be a short section but i will put the timestamps in

[01:38:34] the notes for anyone who wants to skip this part um but i just have to say that there's a trailer going around where we see it looks like kelnaka attacks torban so that would explain the wound

[01:38:47] on his face which could be a lightsaber slash but why is the question indeed what did torban do or would he call not gonna do the torban tried to stop him from right exactly and did kelnaka

[01:38:59] just i did he just not go back with them after whatever happened at these events like is he has he been on cofar ever since and why did torban wait six years before he started his vow of

[01:39:13] silence thing interesting yeah yeah i mean i wonder if uh if he found out may was alive later or i don't know i don't know and yeah maybe just writing like shree wuk poetry on on this planet

[01:39:27] for all this time like what is he doing oh yeah i need the poet wookie um yeah so i wonder if yeah torban indeed found out things six years later that he might not have known at the time

[01:39:43] yeah i i think maybe he learns that may was alive or something like that and that they left her there right so i i think episode five just to just to finish that because he does say

[01:39:55] i've been waiting for you may right exactly so i'm wondering if he found out six years later that may was alive and other stuff and then that's when he you know and he something whatever

[01:40:08] it is he can't he thinks he's culpable enough that he doesn't even want to confess he just wants to end it i think may i think may or coral sent out a burn book about all the things that happen

[01:40:19] that's what so fuggly um apparently the word on the street is uh that episode five is going to be the one that everyone's going to be talking about so i'm guessing we're going to get some major reveals then probably see this scene of the crime from another perspective

[01:40:38] and one other thing i wanted to shout out is i'm really looking forward to there's been a lot of hype about a new character creature character like a cute cuddly one i guess we're probably going to

[01:40:48] fall in love with called basil or basal not sure how they're going to pronounce it made by neil scanlan who's like one of the greatest uh creature creators so i'm super looking forward

[01:40:58] to that i'm hoping he shows up next episode i think i think so because i think the people who got the first four screeners talked about him can i just say my wish for the season yes i want yaddle

[01:41:10] i want her to show up i she's not she's not going to show up this this season because um leslie headland specifically said that venestra was going to be the only big crossover and i'm pretty sure

[01:41:23] she confirms no yoda this season which yoda and yaddle they're out doing their thing but she said i'm fine with no yoda look i've gotten a lot of yoda in my life yeah we need more yaddle

[01:41:32] but she said season two there would be more crossovers i like that i mean we need season two to happen yeah and i i think it's fine to like let the new characters breathe a minute before you

[01:41:43] introduce new people but that's fine right so shall we check in with the community see what uh everyone else thought of this episode would love anyone who wants to share their thoughts

[01:41:55] for future episodes you can a couple people tagged us on the discord i don't have time to go through the whole discord and pull things out because it's just been so lively the conversation there

[01:42:08] but you can also if you definitely want your comments included please email them to you have two possible options sw timeline podcast at gmail.com or star wars at the lowerhounds.com

[01:42:21] that first email is a mouthful it's shorter than the name of the podcast yeah there you go i like to talk fast with lots of syllables so it's fun for me that's fair that's fair um

[01:42:35] so we so sato is she said that i reread soul's darth vader issues as a fact finding mission so darth vader set later in the timeline these this comic books but darth vader doesn't take

[01:42:48] a weapon to fight but he does use one he finds against the jedi the emperor tells him his sith saber must be taken not sure if this sheds any light but i figured it couldn't hurt so

[01:42:58] yeah so maybe there's some precedence to this idea about sith having to take their weapons that is interesting i i i still am sith skeptical sith siths to go all right anyway

[01:43:10] because i i just doesn't feel very sithy to me to be like attack me with all your strength and if you don't think that that line's going in the song it's going in the song

[01:43:21] it's already in the song yeah i mean it does we were told like that this is the sith we were more or less told this this is going to be about a sith perspective but

[01:43:32] i still think i'm leaning toward like this is people who found sith artifacts and are you know like some of these ideas make sense and let's see what we do with them yeah there were a lot of

[01:43:41] sith writings right like i think uh revin became kind of a legend suited bane right exactly then then things just got a little quiet for a while yeah i mean i do think that we are going

[01:43:56] to see at least i think we're going to by the end of this season at least get a nod toward plegis who's the most famous sith during this time or his master tenebrous but i don't think that that's i think that's probably not who's in the mask

[01:44:14] no i agree with that and uh i mean have you have you ever heard of the tragedy of dark druth plegis yeah no we're gonna talk about that a lot in areas to come specifically the

[01:44:26] next one yeah um do you want to give people a new voice listen to and read rocky zim sure rocky zim frequent contributor uh hello there i wanted to chime in with my thoughts on acolyte

[01:44:41] f3 i shared a bit on discord so maybe a bit repetitive i enjoyed this episode and how it addressed the issue about jedi taking children to be tested in dara telling mother she cannot deny the jedi the right to test for potential padawans and then adding with your

[01:44:59] permission of course just sounds a bit sketchy of if the jedi can come and just test a young kid with powers say they can have a lightsaber and be a ninja tell them they are special and can

[01:45:10] have a big brother sister or other being to hang out with seems having a young child make that decision or have some say in it is a bit sketchy which is like what you said gem yeah

[01:45:22] this is this is basically my perspective so far what kid wouldn't want to cool stored and be a ninja samurai but yeah yep yep uh the jedi saying we don't take kids but then saying they cannot

[01:45:36] deny the right to test them is a bit if yeah maybe not take them but you test them and give them a whole power point on how cool it is to be a jedi like the power point yeah yeah yeah that was

[01:45:49] that was a good that was a good one i am thinking uh that coral may have gotten everyone killed on brandoc yeah may start at a fire but doesn't seem that would kill every one of the witches that

[01:46:01] quickly based on how the scene went coral was pretty mad and carried osha so i can see her taking action that led to what happened in the end and i am thinking maybe coral somehow

[01:46:14] survives and finds may and trains her to get revenge on all the jedi how would anyone else know who is all there may could tell the dark lord but i am thinking it may be coral may may

[01:46:28] could tell the dark lord but i'm i'm i'm not sure i'm understanding the send and truck is him that's all right though wait but i think wait so i think that the idea is like how does the

[01:46:40] dark lord know things yeah yeah yeah oh may yeah yeah may could tell the dark lord i thought we were talking about the identity that's why i was confused soul knows i think what led to the incident

[01:46:53] but did not know all the witches died until they saw them running well saw them all running to the ship anyway i am enjoying this so far i do believe that these witches are what is left of the path

[01:47:05] and had to hide after i assume losing a battle or war to the jedi or and the republic for light and life rocky sim you could see how the mother and the jedi were working to encourage

[01:47:18] osha to join their side by saying she is special she can have powers and not be alone yeah absolutely all right thanks rocky sim i agree with pretty much all your takes although i i'm not on team

[01:47:32] coral as the sith lord no there's something i mean maybe i'm only not on that team because the fact they're pointing at that in episode three it feels like to me tells tells me that no that's not

[01:47:45] the answer because we have five more episodes yeah but i'm still i'm looking at sconce like what happened to her yeah definitely well maryland our favorite Tolkien scholar wrote in and i

[01:47:58] i think we should invite her on for like a season wrap up or something like that yeah we have to talk witches yeah yeah because maryland for those who don't know she's not only a Tolkien

[01:48:07] scholar but she does have a lot of a background in in women's history and witchcraft yeah so she asks so i would love to know what the difference is between force magic and the force is it in how

[01:48:21] you do it a different philosophy actual tangible differences between the two energies that they are all using need some clarity here from what i know of ritual magic practices i would guess

[01:48:33] the energy itself is considered to be one and the same energy and then with the differences in the details of how they approach it invoke or engage with it direct or use it and merge or not with it

[01:48:46] yeah i mean so as we talked about this a lot but just in this episode but just to summarize a bit so it sounds like well yeah basically they say it the thread is what they call the force so

[01:48:58] they're talking about the same thing by different names which also reminds me of the wheel of time again where you have different schools of magic and if you are taught to do it like like the ice

[01:49:09] that i are taught to do things with a lot of hand gestures and so if they lose their hands for any reason they can't recreate it whereas other groups of magic users don't use the hand

[01:49:20] gestures they're accessing the same power but uh the fact that they use it differently yeah just comes out looking different so the witches they're still using the force but it just the way that they access it the way they uh their philosophy about it obviously has some overlap

[01:49:38] with certain Jedi thinkings but um they just the way they use it makes it look different uh and come to different results yeah and i'd say it's also the lack of fear of the dark you know this

[01:49:52] this idea that's a big difference yeah it all it's a more holistic view of the force but then also george lucas has weird statements that like the light side is balance right and i

[01:50:04] nope ignoring that nope i don't i don't agree with that george i know you made the world but i just don't agree with that i mean it's everything that happens in star wars basically

[01:50:13] contradicts that it's about the balance between the light and the dark he just says some weird stuff sometimes he's so good at world building like i always say put him in a room and just

[01:50:21] make him sketch out worlds for like right the rest of his life like don't don't let him write a single story right well now i want that room to be him day philoni and leslie headland and actually

[01:50:33] uh gilroy can be in there too the andor write we love it we love it shall i read the last email or would you like please all right it's your podcast well we'll uh i talked a lot about

[01:50:46] lower people want to hear your voice okay eric f says hi all regarding the breeds that jedi patawans wear it's it appears that they are more a tradition than a requirement as some patawans wore them with insistence while others resisted per wookie pedia in canon patawan

[01:51:06] braids were a symbol of rank used to distinguish apprentices within the jedi order they were lengths of intricately woven hair typically worn across the right shoulder patawans belong which belonged to species that did not grow hair on their heads would wear alternatives such as silica beads

[01:51:22] as mentioned by elisha some jedi initiates begin to grow their braids before before their apprenticeship even began as was the case with youngling kelly bedouin mm-hmm that someone will meet later in the timeline mm-hmm after achieving the rank of jedi night the braids would be removed

[01:51:42] patawans who were expelled from the order would have their braids ripped off that sounds violent an example would be redacted when she was framed for redacted a character who yeah gets in trouble

[01:51:56] with the jedi for something she didn't do right uh even when she was cleared she refused the beads mm-hmm during the high republic era masters could decide whether they wanted their patawans to wear

[01:52:10] braids or not fun fact even migregor stated that the crew were looking for a military center something in the world of monks for his hairstyle in episode one migregor said that the braid is the equivalent to monks who shave their heads yeah keep up the excellent work

[01:52:27] more kind words uh and and eric you reach out whenever is good for you that's all i'll say yeah you don't apologize for taking time it's okay right we're glad to hear from you

[01:52:39] loremaster eric f yeah yeah um the yeah this is uh excellent detail about the patawam braids um but i do wonder if they will they might go even greater into lower depth at some point and say

[01:52:53] like if there are three beads here that means blah blah blah yeah yeah i want i i hope not with that because it's it might be a little too much at that point you know although i don't know i don't

[01:53:05] know there's there's always like you can have extra lore as long as it's not like necessary to the understanding of the story right that way people who are like us and like to learn all the lore

[01:53:15] can be satisfied but you have like a surface little story no that feels like something that would like show up as a detail in a book that a character's thinking about like oh now i get my

[01:53:24] third red bead or whatever right probably not red all right that concludes our feedback and um yeah we we've had a nice long chat this episode i think that that's a good sign of the show that

[01:53:38] it just inspires such deep discussion like the fact that david wanted to jump on here and like say the things he was thinking yeah i i'm loving this show i think it's it's

[01:53:48] it's my so far if this keeps up the quality i think it'll be my second favorite live action star wars show after after and or yeah maybe it gets to pass and or if it goes really well i don't know yeah

[01:54:01] yeah no i mean this is poise too this could be one of my top three shows of the year so far the other two being shogun an interview with a vampire so that's high compliment nice nice yeah

[01:54:15] uh so for listeners at home then we'll see you back here on this feed whichever one you're listening on for these weekly releases but also on the star wars canon timeline podcast there will be mailbag

[01:54:29] episodes for each of the previous eras coming so do send in your feedback for that um and next week we're going to do that mid season subscriber chat about how these events link up with later

[01:54:41] in the timeline which will be on uh the which will be for subscribers of both star wars canon timeline and for lorhound subscribers um now yeah so subscribers star wars canon timeline what does

[01:54:55] that mean i started a new canon padawan supercast you'll find that link in the show notes and subscribers there will get early ad free access uh you get the feed and release order because

[01:55:07] in the main feed i'm going to be backdating episodes to release to have them line up in the right timeline order for the in universe so uh this also means in the the subscribers will get um

[01:55:19] get to hold on to older episodes once they're replaced like the intro episode's gonna be replaced in the near future and also extra episodes like these deeper spoilers uh discussions and other

[01:55:29] planned extras to come so and also not to mention that supporting the podcast allows me to keep it going all the way to the end so the more people join the more extras i can offer um anyone who

[01:55:40] wants to consider it you'll find that link in the show notes and much appreciated for that and yes we'll shift dust members um i will be soon offering a supercast version of the book club

[01:55:52] with uh an option to combine subscriptions at a reduced price talking to supercast about that and i will make more announcements about that in the near future um speaking of we'll shift dust there will soon be an interview with glen mitzara co-showrunner of season two of beacon 23

[01:56:11] and also there will be a book club episode covering second shift the second part of the shift book in the silo series and john what else is going on on the other feeds so much

[01:56:24] too much maybe but uh we love it i know aron and uh and chase are going to be doing the boys starting this weekend i might i think i'm gonna hop on with them i'm pretty hot on the boys right now

[01:56:37] i have to watch the new episodes because they just started uh they just dropped like a few hours ago oh shoot oh man and bridgerton just dropped too i i have to like cover my eyes until this week

[01:56:47] and i'm too busy uh so yeah i'm i'm uh i'm pretty hot on the boys i think i'm going to hop on with them sometimes so if you want my opinion you'll have to go to the radioactive

[01:56:57] ramblings feed uh and rings and rituals has a new episode out episode seven chapter seven the eye they're covering the an ultimate episode of season one on rings of power which i thought

[01:57:09] was a great episode in general and uh yeah i hope i hope you'll tune into that it's marilene arpaquilla who you heard from in the feedback and dr sarah brown of signum university analyzing the rings

[01:57:20] of power through the lens of ritual uh properly howard movie review is doing uh their felonies ufeghese season and they just did a my cousin viny yeah great great movie i can't wait till

[01:57:37] that one i still haven't had a chance but yeah great stuff going on on all the feeds uh for our feed of course you know we're doing the acolyte the main lowerhounds feed uh we are doing house

[01:57:48] of the dragon starting this weekend again too busy and we are doing dr who doctor who those are our main things i'm also pre-recording a bunch of similar lean stories so that those will come out

[01:57:59] monthly and we don't have to worry about it during hotlore summer and uh yeah a lot of a lot of good stuff coming i know david's working on some new projects with the collaboration

[01:58:10] and i'm excited to hear that and uh yeah stay subscribed and get in any feedback about interview with the vampire we're going to be wrapping up the season start of july with the one

[01:58:21] shot yeah and listen to uh vampire insiders weekly breakdowns about that show thank you john again for another excellent breakdown thank you for doing the outline and and running this whole show it's a it's uh honestly it's more relaxing to podcast when i'm not like the the primary

[01:58:43] you're just showing up to hang out i know i know i just i just had you know what i'll plug this to over here i just did in uh a guest spot on the lower of the rings podcast with erin uh who's been on our

[01:58:56] summer lane stories and that was so fun to just like pop in and talk about tolkien for an hour and then leave yeah no i agree yep yeah well i'm enjoying shepherding through this process

[01:59:07] right thank you for being our guide and no problem life for light and life