Silo: S2-e3 – "Solo" no more

[00:00:26] Welcome back to Wool-Shift-Dust. Alicia and Luke here again to fill your ears with Silo recaps, observations, thoughts, theories, and two days earlier than usual no less, thanks to American Thanksgiving. Luke, are you happy we're celebrating Thanksgiving with America?

[00:00:42] Yeah, I am thankful because it means people get Silo the whole two days earlier. That's what I'm thankful for.

[00:00:49] But then they have to wait two days longer for episode four.

[00:00:52] Oh, that's true. It all evens out in the end, I suppose.

[00:00:56] Um, today we're talking about episode three of season two of Silo titled Solo, which thankfully confirms both the name Solo for Steve Zahn's character and that Solo is in Silo number 17 and that Juliet's next door.

[00:01:11] He gives some adjacent numbers, but we know that it's 18 because that's the number we saw on the hard drive and on Bernard's glowing key fob thing that we see again this episode, um, which we know unlocks the server room where Solo is in his Silo.

[00:01:26] So, yeah, I'm grateful, Luke, that I don't have to do the they said it, Comic-Con, blah, blah, blah, shale anymore.

[00:01:33] Yeah, no, it's been revealed across all platforms. If you don't know the guy's name is Solo, stop listening to the podcast right now, go back, watch the episode, and come back.

[00:01:45] Yeah.

[00:01:46] Yeah.

[00:01:46] Yeah.

[00:01:47] And we've officially gone beyond all of the Comic-Con talking points now.

[00:01:51] Yeah, and only three episodes in.

[00:01:53] Yeah, I like that. I like that.

[00:01:55] Yeah.

[00:01:57] So, Luke, can you remind people or fill in new listeners, what is our book spoiler policy or our general spoiler policy here?

[00:02:04] Okay, so Alicia has read all of the books that go to comprise the TV series Silo.

[00:02:11] I have not read any of them.

[00:02:13] And so, in order to protect my book ignorance, and indeed the book ignorance of viewers of the show who haven't read the books,

[00:02:23] Alicia will only be talking about stuff that has happened in the books if it's already happened in the show up until this point.

[00:02:30] So, if it happened in season one, or it happened in the first three episodes of season two, we can talk about it.

[00:02:36] But we won't be talking about anything that happened in the book beyond episode three, season two.

[00:02:43] Yeah, so for anyone who doesn't know, the two seasons of Silo are both equivalent together to the first book, Wool, in the series, basically, more or less.

[00:02:56] So, we are about just past halfway through the first book, Wool, in terms of storytelling.

[00:03:04] For those of you who are interested in the book spoilers side of things, though, those are saved for a special book club episode, spoiler casts.

[00:03:12] This week's topic is going to be solo story, and I'll talk more about the book club at the end.

[00:03:18] But just suffice it to say, this is probably going to be a longer spoiler cast, because they are changing a lot in the show, adding new characters, etc.

[00:03:27] We've talked about that.

[00:03:29] But yeah, I'm just as often clueless as new readers, as non-readers, and especially stuff going on with Meadows as a new character.

[00:03:38] All this, I don't know.

[00:03:41] My head's spinning.

[00:03:42] I love it when they throw a curveball at Alicia.

[00:03:45] It puts us on a nice even keel.

[00:03:46] I feel like the power dynamic shifts in the podcast.

[00:03:53] Yeah, this is another one where they're not really pulling scenes directly from the book.

[00:03:58] Like, maybe there's hints of it, you know?

[00:04:00] Like, Juliet does need to coax Solo out.

[00:04:03] It just happens differently, you know?

[00:04:04] But they're touching on a bunch of ideas in different ways that are, like, coming from even later in the books.

[00:04:11] So it's like, hmm, yeah.

[00:04:14] All right.

[00:04:15] So we get into the episode itself.

[00:04:19] Yeah, let's do it.

[00:04:21] Your regularly scheduled breakdown will begin in 3, 2, 1.

[00:04:28] So this is Silo, Season 2, Episode 3, Solo.

[00:04:33] And the episode title is obviously the confirmation of Steve Zahn's character's name.

[00:04:38] Woo-hoo!

[00:04:40] Woo.

[00:04:41] Luke, who do you think gave him this name?

[00:04:44] Do you think he gave it to himself or someone else gave it to him?

[00:04:47] Well, I like to think that Star Wars is canonical in the Silo universe.

[00:04:53] And we know he's got music.

[00:04:56] We know he's got books.

[00:04:57] I like to think he's got a DVD.

[00:05:00] A DVD of at least the Empire Strikes Back in there.

[00:05:05] Yeah.

[00:05:05] So that's my headcanon.

[00:05:07] I think Star Wars is canonical in the Silo universe.

[00:05:12] Well, we know.

[00:05:13] We've definitely heard some music from our world that has made it into Solo's world.

[00:05:21] Yep.

[00:05:21] Um, so this episode, it aired Wednesday, November 27th, 2024.

[00:05:27] Uh, it was written by Cassie Papas, who is one of the executive producers.

[00:05:32] Like she's been heavily involved with the entire series to date.

[00:05:36] And, uh, it was directed again by Michael Dinner, who also directed the first two episodes.

[00:05:41] What are your overall thoughts in the episode?

[00:05:44] I really liked this episode.

[00:05:46] I am all here for Bernard and Meadows content.

[00:05:50] Like those two are a really compelling duo.

[00:05:55] Um, like the more content, the more screen time we get with those two, um, the better.

[00:06:00] Um, I thought we had Sims in classic, genial, um, amusing Sims, which is always the point at

[00:06:08] which you should run from Sims when he's laughing, when he's smiling.

[00:06:12] That's when you know he's really dangerous.

[00:06:15] Yeah.

[00:06:16] No, that's true.

[00:06:17] You know, so we said when we did our first mailbag episode, um, I ranked episode two above this one,

[00:06:25] but going back and watching it, I think I might like this one better than episode two now.

[00:06:30] I mean, it might be, I guess it's just pushing things forward a little more and perhaps especially

[00:06:37] that's one of the, that's one of the most compelling things I'm finding judge Meadows.

[00:06:42] She's a new character.

[00:06:42] I'm finding her very compelling and I have no idea which way she's going to take things and

[00:06:49] how her presence is going to affect the story.

[00:06:52] No.

[00:06:53] Okay.

[00:06:54] Am I alone?

[00:06:55] Am I alone in thinking the Meadows and Bernard's, I'm not saying they were a couple,

[00:07:00] but I think they slept together at some point.

[00:07:03] Well, I mean, I'm getting the idea that Bernard wants to, or is he doing it in a manipulative

[00:07:09] way, but he's definitely, so by the way, in the spoiler cast, which you haven't heard yet.

[00:07:14] Um, oh yeah.

[00:07:15] Well, you won't have heard it until this show is over.

[00:07:18] Yeah.

[00:07:19] So Abby, she was saying that she said the same thing as you from, from episode two.

[00:07:24] She was like, you know, there was a vibe between them.

[00:07:27] Yeah.

[00:07:28] Definite vibe.

[00:07:29] And this one, just the way it's edited when he's measuring her and like the close camera

[00:07:34] and like, yeah.

[00:07:35] Yeah.

[00:07:36] Well, okay.

[00:07:37] We'll get there.

[00:07:38] So first checking in on your solo scaling, where would you, after this episode place the

[00:07:45] character solo on the Julie Hank to Sims Nard scale?

[00:07:49] Okay.

[00:07:49] I am going to put him, I'm going to put him at a four.

[00:07:54] If Juliet is a one and Sims Nard is a 10, I'm now moving him to a four.

[00:07:59] I'm moving him towards Juliet.

[00:08:02] Okay.

[00:08:02] Fair.

[00:08:03] Fair.

[00:08:03] And who had the better banter this episode?

[00:08:06] Juliet and Solo or Sims and Patrick Kennedy?

[00:08:09] Oh, it's got to be Sims and Patrick Kennedy.

[00:08:12] Yeah.

[00:08:12] Oh.

[00:08:13] So can you just, can you just get on, can you just get on with it?

[00:08:15] Stab me in the eye.

[00:08:20] It's like Sims going, why do they tie these things so tight?

[00:08:22] You tied that Sims.

[00:08:24] We all know that you tied that back.

[00:08:27] We, we know that I've been waiting for Patrick to show back up and we got a Danny mention

[00:08:32] too, but not like that.

[00:08:34] Not like that.

[00:08:36] But at least he did get some good last lines out there.

[00:08:39] And also we're, we're, we're sort of, we're sort of missing the elephant in the room here,

[00:08:43] which is justice for Coop.

[00:08:45] Justice for Coop.

[00:08:46] Mm-hmm.

[00:08:47] Mm-hmm.

[00:08:48] I mean, yeah.

[00:08:49] I did not, I did not see that coming.

[00:08:52] No, neither character exists in the book.

[00:08:55] So I did not know either was going to die, but it has, you know, we haven't had a death

[00:08:59] in a while.

[00:09:00] So we got a big double hitter.

[00:09:02] I was bummed about them both.

[00:09:03] If I'm going to be honest.

[00:09:04] Yeah.

[00:09:06] What do you think was the most awkward interaction?

[00:09:09] Juliet and Solo or Bernard and Mary Meadows?

[00:09:13] Oh, Bernard and Mary Meadows.

[00:09:15] Like I say, I don't think it's that Bernard wants to sleep with that.

[00:09:18] Well, I think when, when they were shadow and shadow were, if that's what you call it,

[00:09:23] I think, I'm not saying they were a couple, but I think they had like one wild night together,

[00:09:29] like somewhere in the server room, basically.

[00:09:32] Okay.

[00:09:32] Okay.

[00:09:34] All right.

[00:09:34] So we're going to dive into the episode.

[00:09:36] We're going to talk about one arc at a time.

[00:09:38] First, we're just going to go through the entire arc with Juliet and Solo, and then we'll switch

[00:09:43] over to everything going on in Silo 18.

[00:09:45] So we're going to be talking about events in a different order than the TV episode.

[00:09:50] But before we get into the Juliet and Solo thing, I just wanted to do just one, one reading

[00:09:56] this episode.

[00:09:57] And it is actually picking up right off of the tale of in our Comic-Con episode.

[00:10:03] I read the scene where Juliet and Solo first encountered, and I left it on a sinister tone

[00:10:08] because that's how it was left in the clip.

[00:10:12] They saw at Comic-Con, you know, where he's like, I'm going to kill you.

[00:10:15] And so now that we know that, you know, there's more to their relationship than that, just

[00:10:21] for comparison's sake, this is their first meeting in the book, picking up from when

[00:10:28] he's defending himself from her because he's afraid of her.

[00:10:31] So there was a scraping sound near the far wall, the sound of metal sliding on metal.

[00:10:36] Juliet ran in that direction, darting between the tall units, which are the servers, by the

[00:10:40] way, wondering who the hell this was running from her and where they planned to hide.

[00:10:45] She rounded the last row of servers to see a portion of the floor moving, a section of

[00:10:49] metal grate sliding to cover a hole.

[00:10:52] Juliet dove for the floor, her tablecloth garb wrapping up in her legs, her hands seizing

[00:10:56] the edge of the cover before it could close.

[00:10:58] Right in front of her, she saw the knuckles and fingers of a man's hand gripping the edge

[00:11:03] of the gate.

[00:11:04] There was a startled scream, a grunt of effort, and Juliet tried to yank back on the grate, but

[00:11:09] had no leverage.

[00:11:10] One of the hands disappeared, a knife took its place, snicking against the grate, hunting

[00:11:15] for her fingers.

[00:11:16] Juliet swung her feet beneath her and sat up for leverage.

[00:11:19] She yanked on the grate and felt the knife bite into her finger as she did so.

[00:11:23] She screamed.

[00:11:24] The man below her screamed.

[00:11:26] He emerged and held the knife between them, his hand shaking, the blade catching and

[00:11:30] reflecting the overhead lights.

[00:11:32] Juliet tossed the metal hatch away and clutched her hand, which was dripping blood.

[00:11:37] Easy, she said, scooting out of reach.

[00:11:39] The man ducked his head down and poked it back up.

[00:11:42] He looked past Juliet as if the others were coming up behind her.

[00:11:46] She fought the urge to check, but decided to trust the silence just in case he was trying

[00:11:50] to fool her.

[00:11:51] Who are you?

[00:11:52] She asked.

[00:11:53] She wrapped part of her garment around her hand to bandage it.

[00:11:56] She noticed the man, his beard thick and unkempt, was wearing gray coveralls.

[00:12:00] They could have been made in her silo, with just slight differences.

[00:12:05] He stared at her, his dark hair wild and hanging shaggy over his face.

[00:12:09] He grunted, coughed into his hand, seemed prepared to duck down under the floor and disappear.

[00:12:15] Stay, Juliet said.

[00:12:16] I mean you no harm.

[00:12:17] The man looked at her wounded hand and the knife.

[00:12:20] Juliet glanced down to see a thin trace of blood snaking toward her elbow.

[00:12:24] The wound ached, but she had had worse in her time as a mechanic.

[00:12:28] Sorry, the man muttered.

[00:12:30] He licked his mouth and swallowed.

[00:12:31] The knife was trembling uncontrollably.

[00:12:34] My name's Jules, she said, realizing this man was much more frightened of her than the

[00:12:39] other way around.

[00:12:40] What's yours?

[00:12:41] He glanced at the knife blade held sideways between them, almost as if checking a mirror.

[00:12:46] He shook his head.

[00:12:47] No name, he whispered, his voice a dry rasp.

[00:12:50] No need.

[00:12:51] Are you alone?

[00:12:52] She asked.

[00:12:53] He shrugged.

[00:12:53] Solo, he said.

[00:12:55] Years.

[00:12:55] He looked up at her.

[00:12:56] Where did...

[00:12:57] He licked his lips again, cleared his throat.

[00:13:00] His eyes watered and glinted in the light.

[00:13:02] You came from what level?

[00:13:05] You've been by yourself for years?

[00:13:07] Juliet said in wonder.

[00:13:09] She couldn't imagine.

[00:13:10] I didn't come from any level, she told him.

[00:13:12] I came from another silo.

[00:13:13] She enunciated this last softly and slowly, worried that this news might do to such a

[00:13:19] seemingly fragile man.

[00:13:20] But Solo nodded as if this made sense.

[00:13:23] It was not the reaction Juliet had expected.

[00:13:26] The outside.

[00:13:27] Solo looked again at the knife.

[00:13:29] He reached out of the hole and set it on the grating, slid it away from both of them.

[00:13:33] Is it safe?

[00:13:35] Juliet shook her head.

[00:13:36] No, she said.

[00:13:37] I had a suit.

[00:13:38] It wasn't a far walk.

[00:13:39] But still, I shouldn't be alive.

[00:13:42] Solo bobbed his head.

[00:13:43] He looked up at her wet tracks running from the corners of his eyes and disappearing into

[00:13:47] his beard.

[00:13:48] None of us should, he said.

[00:13:50] Not a one.

[00:13:53] So, yeah, the Solo we get in the show, first of all, rather than like, we see Bernard in

[00:14:00] this episode.

[00:14:01] He goes through the server room and goes to this bunker in the back, but it's like this

[00:14:04] big fancy door, whereas in the book, it's the bunker is just like under a hidden hole

[00:14:10] in the floor, basically, a grate in the floor.

[00:14:14] I guess.

[00:14:15] What do you think?

[00:14:15] I think that's probably to make it a bit more visual.

[00:14:19] A bit more visual, a bit more telegenic, and a bit more obvious to the viewer that it's

[00:14:26] there.

[00:14:27] Yeah.

[00:14:28] Mm-hmm.

[00:14:29] But it also meant that Solo was able to hide longer, whereas here, he's scared of her still,

[00:14:36] but she catches him, you know, out and he can't really hide from her.

[00:14:40] No.

[00:14:42] So, anyway, just an interesting comparison.

[00:14:45] In this episode of the TV show, we meet the man behind the door.

[00:14:50] We pick up right where we left off at the end of episode one with Juliet, played by Rebecca

[00:14:55] Ferguson, talking to a mysterious man hiding behind a steel door, Steve Zahn, who had mildly

[00:15:02] threatened to murder her if she tries to get in again.

[00:15:05] He seems to be glad for a chat, though, as long as she stands back.

[00:15:09] The man identifies himself as Solo because he's there alone, and he identifies his own

[00:15:13] silo as number 17 out of 50.

[00:15:17] So, yeah.

[00:15:18] As I said, so glad to have the exposition dump out of the way.

[00:15:22] I thought it was quite interesting that Solo knew that there were 50 silos.

[00:15:27] Not just that there were multiple silos, but that he knew the exact number.

[00:15:33] Do you think it might be in that...

[00:15:35] So, we know he's the same place as Bernard?

[00:15:37] Yeah, so it's probably somewhere in the order.

[00:15:40] It probably lists them, yeah.

[00:15:42] Mm-hmm.

[00:15:43] Could be.

[00:15:45] Yeah.

[00:15:46] But, yeah, that's a good question because he seems to know a few things that we'll bring up.

[00:15:52] Yeah, he does.

[00:15:54] So, yeah, he...

[00:15:56] I also...

[00:15:57] I had to laugh that...

[00:15:58] Remember the end of last season when Juliet gives Lucas the info dump and he's like, his

[00:16:02] head's about to explode?

[00:16:04] Like, now she gets to experience what that's like.

[00:16:06] Yeah.

[00:16:07] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:16:08] It's the line from Batman.

[00:16:10] So, that's what that feels like.

[00:16:12] Yeah.

[00:16:15] And he tells her the closest silos to 17 are 15, 16, and 18.

[00:16:19] So, anyone drawing a map at home, please share it with us.

[00:16:23] We learn he knows the play Romeo and Juliet.

[00:16:27] Do you think...

[00:16:27] I wonder if it's outlawed in 17 as well.

[00:16:30] I don't know.

[00:16:31] But it is interesting that the silos share some degree of culture.

[00:16:36] They're not cut off from each other.

[00:16:38] They're not separate communities.

[00:16:39] I'm telling you, they can talk to each other.

[00:16:43] But Romeo and Juliet is not a recent development.

[00:16:45] That's true.

[00:16:46] That's true.

[00:16:47] That's true.

[00:16:49] Yeah.

[00:16:49] I hadn't thought that one all the way through.

[00:16:54] But he does...

[00:16:56] Something he knows that's interesting is he asks her...

[00:16:59] He's trying to figure out which silos she came from.

[00:17:01] He asks her what the position of the sun was when she was walking.

[00:17:05] So, he's trying to, like, you know, triangulate her with that.

[00:17:08] Which she's just like, what?

[00:17:10] What?

[00:17:10] You know, I was just...

[00:17:11] No, I wasn't looking.

[00:17:14] I was looking at, you know...

[00:17:16] I was looking at all the weird silos and the dead bodies.

[00:17:19] But, no, it's an interesting skill for someone who says he spent however many years locked in a room to know about how to do that.

[00:17:30] It certainly indicates presence of Martin.

[00:17:33] Hmm.

[00:17:34] Yeah.

[00:17:35] Yeah, but how much does he even know about the sun, you know?

[00:17:38] But, anyway, that's a question for another day.

[00:17:42] He's not sure he trusts her yet.

[00:17:44] Juliet.

[00:17:45] So, he gets spooked and closes the eye slot a few times when she asks him more about himself.

[00:17:50] But she's like, we get to see Juliet coaxing him.

[00:17:54] That's, like, her big role this episode.

[00:17:58] The solo whisperer.

[00:18:00] Hmm.

[00:18:02] And he gives us some insights.

[00:18:04] Like, he says in the rebellion we saw at the beginning of episode one,

[00:18:08] he says, no one forced people out.

[00:18:10] They chose to leave.

[00:18:12] And when they did, it was a nice day.

[00:18:14] And everybody was smiling.

[00:18:15] But the dust started to blow again.

[00:18:17] And I think the poison went away for a bit.

[00:18:20] But it came back.

[00:18:21] And a lot of it.

[00:18:22] And that's when they all died.

[00:18:24] The poison went away for a bit.

[00:18:27] And then the dust started to blow again.

[00:18:30] And they all died.

[00:18:33] Hmm.

[00:18:34] We don't have answers to this.

[00:18:35] But I'm just pointing out that these are the questions they're asking us to ask.

[00:18:39] Yes.

[00:18:39] Yeah.

[00:18:40] So was there a moment when it was safe to go outside?

[00:18:46] Is that what that's implying?

[00:18:48] I should say, I guess I can say this safely here,

[00:18:51] that one of our listeners, Paul Kent, pointed out,

[00:18:54] and we talked about this in the spoiler cast,

[00:18:56] that he says he noticed that there was a sort of mist

[00:19:01] that followed the group of people out, you know,

[00:19:04] Timmy's family, when they went outside.

[00:19:09] Interesting.

[00:19:11] Hmm.

[00:19:11] Hmm.

[00:19:12] Interesting.

[00:19:13] But also, like, if he's referring to the bad air outside,

[00:19:17] how could that go away and come back?

[00:19:20] Do you want to hear, like, a really super industrial strength tinfoil hat theory

[00:19:27] that occurred to me watching this episode?

[00:19:30] Yes, very much so.

[00:19:32] I think I might have mentioned this at some point in season one as well.

[00:19:37] I'd have to go back and re-listen to the podcast.

[00:19:39] But are we absolutely sure there aren't aliens involved here?

[00:19:43] Because I'm thinking about, like, the order and this whole idea of a book that contains, like,

[00:19:51] instructions on how to run your society.

[00:19:53] Mm-hmm.

[00:19:54] Is this, could this be, like, some massive, like, alien aviary, like, alien ant farm,

[00:20:00] like, social experiment that you run over and over and over again to see what outcomes you get?

[00:20:08] I mean, I'm obviously not going to answer that, but I'll just say you're not the only one who has that theory for sure.

[00:20:12] I've heard it.

[00:20:13] Yeah.

[00:20:13] Okay.

[00:20:13] I've heard it from you before, last season.

[00:20:16] Okay.

[00:20:16] But also, I actually, someone, who is it, Maureen D was saying on Discord today,

[00:20:21] she was like, that she had a pet tinfoil hat theory that Bernard was specifically an alien.

[00:20:28] Oh, okay.

[00:20:30] No, I don't think Bernard is an alien.

[00:20:32] No.

[00:20:32] I don't think anybody knows who the aliens are.

[00:20:35] But just this whole idea of a book, a single tome that contains all the instructions you would need to run your society,

[00:20:43] seems like, seems very much like an experimental protocol.

[00:20:47] Mm-hmm.

[00:20:49] Yeah.

[00:20:49] Okay.

[00:20:50] Yeah.

[00:20:51] Okay.

[00:20:52] Yeah.

[00:20:52] And so, another thing I want to point out from this conversation is that Juliet says to Solo,

[00:20:58] when people go out to clean, they die in three minutes.

[00:21:00] So, how did they survive longer than that?

[00:21:05] Because, indeed, the people made it to the hill.

[00:21:08] And Solo asks, I don't know, how did you?

[00:21:10] And, of course, she says, well, I had a suit.

[00:21:12] And they were not wearing a suit.

[00:21:13] But more questions being raised along these lines.

[00:21:19] And then he asks her, hey, did you get sent out like Ron Tucker?

[00:21:25] He thought it was safe outside.

[00:21:27] So, this guy also refused to clean.

[00:21:30] He wrote lies with his finger on the dirt of the lens, which obviously then just stayed there on the cafeteria screens

[00:21:38] because nobody was going to clean it because he didn't do it.

[00:21:42] So, he walked around the corner.

[00:21:44] And two days later, Solo says they painted lies on the screen over where he had written that.

[00:21:49] And that's when things really kicked off.

[00:21:52] I love Juliet's reaction to that, by the way.

[00:21:55] It's like, oh, no.

[00:21:58] Oh, yeah.

[00:22:00] I didn't have anything clean.

[00:22:02] Yeah.

[00:22:03] Well, we'll get to that.

[00:22:04] Yeah.

[00:22:04] But he also says Russell was the head of IT.

[00:22:08] And Solo says that he was the shadow of Russell, the head of IT, which we saw Russell again in episode one.

[00:22:14] I think he's the one who went over the edge, but anyway, he was definitely the one leading what we called Group B.

[00:22:19] Yeah.

[00:22:20] The judicial, the raiders, the guys with the guns.

[00:22:24] Yeah.

[00:22:25] Yeah.

[00:22:26] So, he says Russell's head of IT.

[00:22:28] Solo says that he was Russell's shadow.

[00:22:30] So, and then he says that Russell said to him, don't, no matter what, never let anyone in the vault ever.

[00:22:40] And, yeah, he, and then this is when, when Solo points out to Juliet, they didn't see that, that guy, Ron Tucker, die.

[00:22:47] So, they thought maybe he was still alive.

[00:22:49] And that's where, yeah, Juliet's like, oh, shit.

[00:22:52] I didn't have to clean.

[00:22:53] Yeah.

[00:22:55] Like, the look on Rebecca Ferguson's face as the penny drops is priceless.

[00:23:00] Yeah.

[00:23:01] She's got such an expressive face.

[00:23:04] Yeah, she does.

[00:23:05] Yeah.

[00:23:06] Yeah.

[00:23:07] She should be an actress.

[00:23:09] She should.

[00:23:13] So, yeah, so Juliet is now afraid that her silo is on the verge of a rebellion that will kill them all, which is true.

[00:23:20] And she's now desperate to make a new airtight cleaning suit so that she can get back to her silo.

[00:23:26] And she's back to MacGyvering and putting a little lab together for herself to work on her cleaning suit project.

[00:23:33] And when she goes back to Solo's bunker to say hi, he's left her some food, chicken stew outside, which she greedily gobbles down.

[00:23:41] And he later tells her he was being selfish.

[00:23:43] He wanted to make sure that she was real.

[00:23:45] How sad is that?

[00:23:48] That's really sad.

[00:23:49] But also, how much chicken stew has he got in there?

[00:23:53] Like, he's got, like, years worth of supplies in that room.

[00:23:57] And that room doesn't look big enough from what we've seen of when Bernard's been in there.

[00:24:01] So is there anything behind the wall?

[00:24:04] Is there some kind of massive larder back there?

[00:24:07] Yeah, good question.

[00:24:08] I mean, it seems like there's got to be at least somewhere where they're storing that food.

[00:24:12] Yeah.

[00:24:12] And where's he?

[00:24:14] Like, there wasn't much floor space in the part that we saw.

[00:24:16] Like, where's he sleeping?

[00:24:18] Well, I don't know.

[00:24:19] They were like, they were like, like, tiered step things.

[00:24:22] But you couldn't sleep on it.

[00:24:24] They were too narrow.

[00:24:24] Yeah, probably.

[00:24:26] Probably.

[00:24:27] Were you worried at any point that he might have poisoned the food?

[00:24:32] It did occur to me, but no.

[00:24:35] Because he's been on his own for that long.

[00:24:38] I just want some company.

[00:24:40] Yeah.

[00:24:41] And like, actually, I thought the explanation that he needed to watch her eat it made a lot

[00:24:49] of sense because that would be a way of telling whether you were hallucinating or not.

[00:24:55] That's true.

[00:24:58] It was funny when he gave her the food.

[00:25:00] Yeah.

[00:25:00] He's obviously, he has a lot of food, but I guess maybe not a huge amount of variety.

[00:25:05] He tells her about the soup.

[00:25:06] It's not bad.

[00:25:07] I mean, I don't know.

[00:25:08] I can't tell anymore, but I remember liking it at first.

[00:25:11] Yeah.

[00:25:12] I did like that a lot.

[00:25:13] I think I liked it.

[00:25:15] I remember liking it.

[00:25:17] And so that's all I ate for years.

[00:25:19] Yeah.

[00:25:22] And so in the suit lab, by the way, we see some graffiti on the wall.

[00:25:26] You know, we hear Bernard talking about where he's about the graffiti.

[00:25:29] It says Ron Tucker lives and on the door of her new suit lab, we want to go out.

[00:25:35] The suit lab thing, that's definitely a big thing in the book, but she actually even sleeps

[00:25:41] in the suit lab in the book.

[00:25:42] She doesn't like go in an apartment.

[00:25:43] She just thinks it's easier and more secure if she can sleep in the suit lab.

[00:25:48] Okay.

[00:25:49] Okay.

[00:25:50] Well, this is probably a good place to take our first pause.

[00:25:52] We'll be right back in a second to talk more about what we learn from Juliet's interactions

[00:25:58] with Solo.

[00:25:59] Just a second.

[00:26:08] So Juliet tells Solo she can't find enough parts to make a suit.

[00:26:13] Solo seems to know the layout of the silo very well.

[00:26:16] He says the suits were assembled in room S, which is presumably the room we saw Juliet in.

[00:26:22] But he says the materials come from critical supply, which is currently underwater.

[00:26:29] Yeah.

[00:26:32] So Bernard, we're going to talk about this later, but Bernard says that the heads of IT have their

[00:26:38] own suits.

[00:26:39] But I guess if that is true, I guess it's not in the vault where Solo is.

[00:26:47] Clearly not.

[00:26:49] Hmm.

[00:26:50] But yeah, we'll talk about that later because that's a very interesting piece of information.

[00:26:56] Mm-hmm.

[00:26:57] Very interesting.

[00:26:59] Solo points out, yeah, everyone says they won't clean, but Juliet proves that she's the most stubborn

[00:27:04] character in stubborn character history.

[00:27:09] And she says the whole thing, like, so how gratified did you feel as a podcaster when she

[00:27:14] says the whole thing we've been saying for ages about, like, people clean because they want

[00:27:18] to let people see the greenery and flowers and the birds.

[00:27:24] And Juliet learns the word birds and they're flying in the same V over and over.

[00:27:28] Yeah, I do love the idea there are these creatures in the sky.

[00:27:33] They're called birds.

[00:27:34] They're called birds.

[00:27:36] You think about if somebody just tells you that word and you don't know it, it sounds

[00:27:39] stupid.

[00:27:40] You're like, birds.

[00:27:41] Birds.

[00:27:42] Yeah.

[00:27:43] It's like the classic one that always puzzles me is, like, who were the first people to discover

[00:27:49] you could drink milk?

[00:27:51] Mm-hmm.

[00:27:51] Who were the first people to discover you could, the mushrooms are edible?

[00:27:55] Blue cheese.

[00:27:55] Yeah, stuff like that.

[00:27:57] Mm-hmm.

[00:27:58] No.

[00:28:00] But yeah, so, and yeah, and Juliet says the lie is the lie.

[00:28:04] So they clearly listen to this podcast, just saying.

[00:28:06] They do, yeah.

[00:28:06] They clearly subscribe.

[00:28:10] And Juliet asks Solo how he survived and how long he's been there.

[00:28:14] And he says his job is just to guard the vault.

[00:28:16] But she calls him out that he's clearly opened the door because he gave her that soup.

[00:28:21] And Juliet asks about the bodies in the hall, which are fresher than the ones she's seen elsewhere

[00:28:27] in the silo.

[00:28:28] And then Solo goes into hiding again.

[00:28:29] But she's able to coax him into talking.

[00:28:31] Um, we learn that Solo's hobbies involve reading, playing music.

[00:28:36] Now, we know what kind of music he likes, but what do you think he's reading?

[00:28:40] That's an interesting question.

[00:28:42] Um, I imagine whatever he's got available to him.

[00:28:46] I mean, and maybe the Wizard of Oz.

[00:28:49] We've seen that, that we've seen that a copy of the Wizard of Oz survived in silo 18.

[00:28:54] But yeah, whatever relic, um, survived in silo 17, I imagine.

[00:28:59] Yeah.

[00:29:00] I can't imagine he's reading the pact very much.

[00:29:04] Or, or the order.

[00:29:06] Or the order, yeah.

[00:29:07] Yeah.

[00:29:08] Probably the driest, not the, yeah, most fun reading.

[00:29:13] And he has quite an eclectic taste in music as well.

[00:29:16] Hmm.

[00:29:17] Yeah.

[00:29:17] Well, that I guess I do too.

[00:29:20] Yes.

[00:29:21] Yeah.

[00:29:22] And we find out that, you know, as we alluded to, he was not sure that Juliet was real.

[00:29:27] And she's like, you imagine people, but just imagine his existence there.

[00:29:32] He's been there for who knows how long.

[00:29:35] Um, and he's by himself and we see on the door across from him, like right where he looks,

[00:29:44] when he looks outside, it says we will get in sooner or later.

[00:29:47] So that's the kind of fear he was living under.

[00:29:50] And in a, in a very small space as well.

[00:30:02] Yeah.

[00:30:04] Yeah.

[00:30:05] Once you go through the server room, then there's that bunker door with the, um, with the code on it.

[00:30:10] So the door to the server room was open.

[00:30:15] Yeah.

[00:30:15] He had already lost one layer of protection.

[00:30:18] Yeah.

[00:30:20] Yeah.

[00:30:20] So you can imagine, yeah, that's, uh, it's been a time.

[00:30:23] I mean, actually the, the miracle is not, the miracle is that Solo is as put together as he is.

[00:30:30] Right.

[00:30:30] Not that he is a little bit strange.

[00:30:33] Right.

[00:30:33] But that he hasn't like completely wigged out.

[00:30:35] Yeah.

[00:30:36] Yeah.

[00:30:37] I guess good music and whatever he's reading will do that.

[00:30:41] It's just enough to hang on to.

[00:30:43] Yeah.

[00:30:44] So speaking of music later, Juliet sleeping in a nearby apartment when she's suddenly rudely awoken by Solo blasting red rain by Peter Gabriel.

[00:30:53] And he seems to have been trying to lure her back because he, he's had a thought.

[00:30:59] She should try to use a firefighter suit to go outside.

[00:31:04] And there are three places she can get one of those engineering level 70 and next to recycling in 23.

[00:31:11] And two of those are definitely underwater.

[00:31:14] And, um, oh, so is level 23.

[00:31:20] So I tried looking and I can't see to what level the flooding is, but I'll just say that the flooding is way higher in the show than it is in the book.

[00:31:28] Yeah.

[00:31:28] I mean, if it's in level 23, that's a long way up.

[00:31:32] That's a long way up the Sightline.

[00:31:34] Yeah.

[00:31:35] Because in the books, uh, it is on level 34 because it's like trying to be positioned as far away from any deputy station as possible.

[00:31:44] Oh, crikey.

[00:31:45] So yeah, this is obviously this IT is not on level 34.

[00:31:50] It's much higher.

[00:31:51] Yeah.

[00:31:51] We also saw the entrance to the janitor's closet is on 19.

[00:31:55] So that must be somewhere around here.

[00:31:58] Presumably they're connected in some way, kind of, maybe not interior.

[00:32:02] Yeah, probably.

[00:32:03] Yeah.

[00:32:05] So where do you think Solo's getting the, all this music?

[00:32:09] Do you think it's like relics?

[00:32:11] Yeah, it would have, it would have to be.

[00:32:13] It would have to be.

[00:32:16] Um, and I think that probably explains why it's, we're probably going to hear a lot of different genres of music by a lot of different artists because it's going to be a random collection of whatever survive.

[00:32:29] Hmm.

[00:32:30] But if you are going to play Red Rain by Peter Gabriel, you do need it blasting out.

[00:32:34] It's one of those songs that benefits from being played loud.

[00:32:38] Oh yeah.

[00:32:39] Yeah.

[00:32:39] Even, even just like hearing it in the episode, I was getting into it.

[00:32:43] I might've backed up and played it again.

[00:32:45] Yeah.

[00:32:46] Yeah.

[00:32:46] Yeah.

[00:32:46] And it's only a very short snippet.

[00:32:48] Yeah.

[00:32:51] So Juliet, she wants to dive down.

[00:32:54] She decides how she's going to deal with this whole flooding situation.

[00:32:57] And she wants to dive down one level to get the suits from 23, but she needs Solo's help.

[00:33:03] So he, she needs him to operate an air pump so that she can breathe underwater.

[00:33:07] She needs a strong man on the billows.

[00:33:10] Right.

[00:33:11] Exactly.

[00:33:12] I mean, yeah, she needs someone she can trust that can make sure she keeps breathing.

[00:33:17] Do you think she can trust Solo to do that?

[00:33:19] Even if first she has to coax him out of course, but once she does.

[00:33:23] I mean, the thing is whether, whether she trusts him to do it is kind of irrelevant.

[00:33:26] He's the only one that can buy as far as Juliet knows.

[00:33:32] Right.

[00:33:33] Mm-hmm.

[00:33:33] So it's really neither here nor there.

[00:33:36] It's desperation.

[00:33:37] Yeah.

[00:33:37] It's Solo or nothing.

[00:33:39] Yeah.

[00:33:40] So she appeals to his humanity saying she needs him to help her save 10,000 people.

[00:33:45] She needs to get home so that she can tell them it's bad outside.

[00:33:50] So, but okay.

[00:33:51] Imagine she could just like teleport back to her silo and tell them what she knows now and

[00:33:58] what she's seen, you know, that it is dead outside.

[00:34:02] But there are other silos out there.

[00:34:04] Do you think that would make things better or worse in Silo 18?

[00:34:09] I'm honestly not sure.

[00:34:10] It's a good question.

[00:34:12] Yeah.

[00:34:12] Um, and I think a lot of people would just think she's gone off a rocket.

[00:34:17] Yeah.

[00:34:17] To be honest.

[00:34:18] Like that something happened to her outside.

[00:34:21] Mm-hmm.

[00:34:23] That the bad air got to her and she's just like tripping.

[00:34:26] Yeah.

[00:34:27] Yeah.

[00:34:27] I mean, they, there has to be some explanation for her surviving, but it's hard for people to

[00:34:31] believe in something they haven't seen themselves.

[00:34:34] Yeah.

[00:34:36] Yeah.

[00:34:36] So, yeah.

[00:34:36] So Juliet says, okay, Solo, you know, he says he can't do it.

[00:34:41] He can't possibly.

[00:34:42] And so, so Juliet's like, okay, fine.

[00:34:44] Then, uh, I'll figure something else out.

[00:34:46] And she walks away and then Solo, he's afraid of losing the first company that he's had in

[00:34:53] apparently more than 25 years.

[00:34:54] We'll talk about that dating later.

[00:34:56] But Bernard said that this whole thing happened before Meadows was his, um, shadow.

[00:35:02] So, and yeah, Solo leaves his bunker and you know, it's funny.

[00:35:08] 25 years is also how long Martha was hidden away in her workshop.

[00:35:14] Interesting.

[00:35:15] That's a strange coincidence.

[00:35:17] Yeah.

[00:35:17] Or is it?

[00:35:19] Or is it?

[00:35:20] Mm-hmm.

[00:35:23] So Solo leaves his bunker and he, Juliet meets him on the temporary bridge that she set up

[00:35:29] in episode one.

[00:35:30] And Solo says, this is the furthest he's been in many years, but he's ready to explore

[00:35:35] with her.

[00:35:36] Um, he wants to see what is up, but that's a story for another episode because sitting

[00:35:42] on the bridge is already big progress for Solo for now.

[00:35:45] So, it was, oh, so cute.

[00:35:48] It was.

[00:35:48] It was so sweet.

[00:35:50] Yeah.

[00:35:51] And Steve Zahn just like plays that brilliantly.

[00:35:55] Just the shock and the wonder and the, oh, it's just way too, it's way too much.

[00:36:00] We've got massive sensory overload here.

[00:36:04] He's like, do I look bad?

[00:36:06] No, no.

[00:36:07] I just thought maybe you'd look different.

[00:36:11] I mean, actually, he's been on his own for 20 years.

[00:36:14] I don't think he looks too bad at all.

[00:36:16] No.

[00:36:16] In that context.

[00:36:17] It's amazing he's combed his beard, you know?

[00:36:19] Yeah.

[00:36:21] Um, yeah.

[00:36:22] So this is the furthest he's been in many years.

[00:36:24] So does that mean he's not the one who cut a rope in episode one?

[00:36:29] But if it's not him, that means there's a third person out there or at least a third person

[00:36:35] out there.

[00:36:37] So who knows?

[00:36:39] I thought it was, I thought it was an interesting, um, counterpoint where, um, Solo is talking

[00:36:46] about how big it all is.

[00:36:48] And then there's a conversation earlier in the episode between Billings and Meadows.

[00:36:53] Mm-hmm.

[00:36:54] Um, and Meadows talks about how humans are meant to live underground and how nobody has walked

[00:37:00] more than 200 feet in a straight line.

[00:37:03] Mm-hmm.

[00:37:03] And I thought that was a, I don't know whether they deliberately set that up as a juxtaposition,

[00:37:07] but I thought it was an interesting juxtaposition of scale in terms of what you're used to and

[00:37:14] what you're not used to.

[00:37:16] Yeah.

[00:37:17] Yeah.

[00:37:17] All that perspective.

[00:37:19] Yeah.

[00:37:19] Yeah.

[00:37:21] Did you have any other thoughts about the Juliet solo storyline before we switched to the

[00:37:25] other silo?

[00:37:27] Only that I really want to know who those two guys are.

[00:37:30] The two dead bodies, the two fresher dead bodies.

[00:37:34] Yeah.

[00:37:34] There's clearly, there's clearly something else going on there that we will find out about

[00:37:39] at some point, but.

[00:37:41] Yeah.

[00:37:41] Well, apparently they were threatening.

[00:37:43] I mean, presumably they're the ones who wrote what's on the door.

[00:37:46] That's what was implied.

[00:37:47] Yes.

[00:37:47] And that, what was written on the door is very threatening.

[00:37:50] So I'm not sure.

[00:37:51] Well, who are they and why were they trying to get in there?

[00:37:54] Mm-hmm.

[00:37:54] Mm-hmm.

[00:37:55] And also what is in there that requires a guy to stay there indefinitely to make sure

[00:38:00] that nobody gets in?

[00:38:02] Yeah.

[00:38:03] Good questions.

[00:38:04] Good questions.

[00:38:05] Yeah.

[00:38:06] But also, okay.

[00:38:07] So here's a question.

[00:38:08] How old do you think solo is?

[00:38:13] Late forties, early fifties.

[00:38:17] So let's say he's 50.

[00:38:19] Okay.

[00:38:19] Even round number.

[00:38:21] So 25 years ago, he would be 25.

[00:38:24] Okay.

[00:38:24] Yeah.

[00:38:24] That's the right age to be a shadow.

[00:38:26] Okay.

[00:38:26] Yeah.

[00:38:27] Okay.

[00:38:29] So meanwhile, in silo 18, the rebellion is fomenting hard.

[00:38:35] Bernard seems to be making it his mission to push it to the brink.

[00:38:40] First, Teddy Olatunji Ayofe.

[00:38:43] That's the guy we pointed out was conspiring with Shirley, played by Remy Milner last week.

[00:38:49] Teddy is arrested for painting Juliette Liv's graffiti.

[00:38:53] And one of the raiders even punched his mom in the stomach.

[00:38:56] Did you see that?

[00:38:58] Yeah.

[00:38:58] He literally like punched her in the stomach very, very hard as well.

[00:39:04] Yeah.

[00:39:05] There were some rough punches thrown this episode.

[00:39:07] There was.

[00:39:10] By the way, Abby made an interesting point in the spoiler cast for episode two that dovetails

[00:39:16] with what you and I were talking about in the public podcast for episode two, which is

[00:39:21] you were talking about how it's not when you're the poorest that you rebel.

[00:39:26] It's when your circumstances get a little bit better that you have time to think about how

[00:39:31] bad that it is.

[00:39:33] And Abby just happened to bring up, she's like, you know, the people mechanical are not the

[00:39:37] most oppressed.

[00:39:38] The miners are the most oppressed.

[00:39:40] Yeah, that's true.

[00:39:41] And so that's why rebellion started mechanical, I suppose.

[00:39:45] Well, yeah, that and something else that we're going to talk about in a bit, I imagine.

[00:39:51] Which, wait, give me a hint.

[00:39:52] What's in the order?

[00:39:54] Oh, right.

[00:39:55] Yeah.

[00:39:56] Well, yeah.

[00:39:57] That's a show edition, by the way.

[00:39:59] Yeah.

[00:40:01] The fact, yeah, that they spell it out like that.

[00:40:04] So, okay.

[00:40:05] So Teddy's mom, who's her name's Evelyn, by the way, played by Carol Thomas.

[00:40:10] She said that he was not set up.

[00:40:12] You know, they didn't frame him for doing the graffiti.

[00:40:15] He did actually do it.

[00:40:16] And she said she was proud of him.

[00:40:17] This is our home down here.

[00:40:19] These are our walls.

[00:40:20] We can mark them up if we want.

[00:40:22] What do you think?

[00:40:23] Do you agree?

[00:40:24] Yeah.

[00:40:25] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:40:27] Absolutely.

[00:40:28] And we'll find out later on.

[00:40:31] This has actually nothing to do with the graffiti, per se.

[00:40:35] No.

[00:40:35] No.

[00:40:36] Just protocol.

[00:40:37] Yeah.

[00:40:37] Yeah.

[00:40:39] And Martha, she's still like, I feel like Martha's the only one who's keeping the powder keg from combusting.

[00:40:45] She says, we know what you're afraid of.

[00:40:48] We all know what they can do.

[00:40:50] But surely, of course, if Martha is trying to calm the fire, surely is the one who keeps throwing matches at it.

[00:40:57] She's like, they're going to want to make an example of someone from Mechanical, but we're not going to let him.

[00:41:02] And this is when we see at this point Cooper's looking around nervously.

[00:41:06] Were you worried about him at this point?

[00:41:08] Surely, surely, surely, just stop.

[00:41:10] Yeah.

[00:41:11] Just stop.

[00:41:12] You're not helping anybody.

[00:41:13] I understand you're upset.

[00:41:16] Life sucks, but just...

[00:41:19] See, this is why I still have more sympathy with Nox than you do, because like...

[00:41:27] I have more sympathy with him this episode.

[00:41:29] This episode, he's coming around.

[00:41:31] He's, you know, yeah.

[00:41:32] Yeah.

[00:41:32] Although I did laugh both times I watched him get punched in the face by her.

[00:41:37] That was so hard.

[00:41:38] I didn't think you were actually going to do that.

[00:41:42] So hard.

[00:41:43] Oh.

[00:41:44] But were you nervous at this point for Cooper when you saw him?

[00:41:48] No, no.

[00:41:49] I mean, this is the thing.

[00:41:50] What happens later on really does come as a slap in the face.

[00:41:53] Yeah.

[00:41:54] Yeah.

[00:41:54] It was sudden.

[00:41:55] It was so sudden, but that's how things happen.

[00:41:58] Yeah.

[00:41:59] So, okay.

[00:42:00] Meanwhile, up at the top, Bernard Tim Robbins opens the double doors to the server room with

[00:42:05] his key labeled 18, and he leads Mary Meadows, played by Tonya Moody, into the secret head

[00:42:11] of IT vault.

[00:42:12] They discuss what the order says about, quote unquote, preparing for war in the event of

[00:42:16] a failed cleaning, which it says, crack down on graffiti, anything that glorifies the

[00:42:22] failed cleaner.

[00:42:23] And Bernard tells her about his arrest of that he arrested Teddy and mechanical.

[00:42:28] Of course, he doesn't know his name.

[00:42:30] And he fills her in on Juliet having a red level relic, that hard drive, which Bernard destroyed

[00:42:36] before investigating what might be on it.

[00:42:38] I get the sense that Meadows would have definitely looked.

[00:42:43] Yeah.

[00:42:43] Oh, Meadows would definitely have looked.

[00:42:45] Yeah.

[00:42:47] But then we see Bernard lie to Mary about Juliet asking to go outside, and Meadows doesn't look

[00:42:55] like she believes him about that part.

[00:42:58] Well, it's like, you know, she had a red level relic.

[00:43:00] She was going out.

[00:43:01] She was going outside one way or the other.

[00:43:04] Right.

[00:43:06] Yeah.

[00:43:07] Yeah.

[00:43:08] I do know.

[00:43:08] I mean, Meadows is very shrewd.

[00:43:10] They keep showing that.

[00:43:12] Like, also what she says about, she's like, I know what your order says.

[00:43:16] It says to blame mechanical and unite the silo against them.

[00:43:20] Well, first of all, why?

[00:43:22] Why do you think the order says that?

[00:43:24] The order wants to...

[00:43:25] This is what leads me to think this might be a gigantic social experiment.

[00:43:29] Hmm.

[00:43:30] Hmm.

[00:43:30] Because it's kind of like, all right, let's create a tense situation and play it out over

[00:43:35] and over and over again and see how many different ways it could resolve.

[00:43:39] Because it doesn't really make sense to me.

[00:43:42] Because, all right, if you're trying to create enemies, maybe don't create enemies of the

[00:43:47] people that actually keep your entire ecosystem running.

[00:43:51] Mm-hmm.

[00:43:52] Like, that seems...

[00:43:53] That seems...

[00:43:54] I understand the logic of, like, creating an enemy to deflect attention.

[00:44:00] But that seems a particularly odd target, given that the entire silo is dependent on their

[00:44:08] labor.

[00:44:09] And I also wonder, like, what happens in the circumstance that you victimize mechanical,

[00:44:14] and rather than them responding violently, they do, like, non-violent, you know...

[00:44:20] Protests, yeah.

[00:44:21] ...civil disobedience.

[00:44:22] What if they go down the Gandhi, you know, Martin Luther King route with this...

[00:44:27] Then you send someone in with a firebomb to set them off one way or another.

[00:44:31] I suppose, yeah.

[00:44:32] But it seems...

[00:44:33] Yeah.

[00:44:33] That seems a very, very risky maneuver.

[00:44:36] Yeah.

[00:44:37] Yeah.

[00:44:37] But it's also...

[00:44:38] I mean, so they basically say later that the idea is to get mechanical to rebel and have

[00:44:44] everyone against them so that the head of IT can squash the rebellion.

[00:44:49] I guess that's to make him a hero, but I just don't see...

[00:44:52] I don't know.

[00:44:53] That whole twist is from...

[00:44:55] Is not from the book.

[00:44:56] Yeah.

[00:44:57] And I'm not sure that I'm on board with this change.

[00:45:00] What happens if mechanical just turn off all the power and kill the silo?

[00:45:05] Which inevitably they're going to do, right?

[00:45:07] At some point.

[00:45:08] Maybe that's, you know, the idea is that turns more people against them.

[00:45:12] Like, I get the idea that that would also harm the people in mechanical.

[00:45:18] But if you're being continuously victimized, like, at some point you're going to push that

[00:45:23] button.

[00:45:24] Mm-hmm.

[00:45:24] Particularly if you're the only person that can...

[00:45:27] If you're the only people that can then try and undo that damage.

[00:45:31] Yeah.

[00:45:31] Yeah.

[00:45:32] Yeah.

[00:45:33] But Meadows, yeah, she seems more able to think outside the box or the order, as the

[00:45:39] case may be, than Bernard is.

[00:45:40] And she says, don't arrest people from the most oppressed group.

[00:45:45] Like, I know that's what your book says, but duh, don't do that.

[00:45:48] Pick someone from the middle or upper class.

[00:45:51] But, yeah, Bernard just seems to be trying to make it worse.

[00:45:54] Yeah.

[00:45:55] Would you rather Meadows be in charge?

[00:45:57] Do you think that would be better or different than Bernard being in charge?

[00:46:01] I don't know.

[00:46:02] I need to see a couple more episodes of Meadows.

[00:46:05] Mm-hmm.

[00:46:06] Because, you know, until last week, she pretty much cut herself off from society.

[00:46:15] Yeah.

[00:46:17] I think because she's too smart to deal with all of it.

[00:46:22] Yeah.

[00:46:22] Yeah.

[00:46:23] Yeah.

[00:46:24] And I think that's ultimately why her being Bernard's shadow couldn't, isn't, isn't going

[00:46:30] to work.

[00:46:31] Because she's smarter than him.

[00:46:33] She's smart, yeah.

[00:46:34] She's smart, but she's wiser than him.

[00:46:36] Yeah.

[00:46:36] It's the classic thing.

[00:46:39] It's the classic thing of a couple where one person for their own ego has to be seen

[00:46:44] as the smartest person in that.

[00:46:46] Mm-hmm.

[00:46:46] Yeah.

[00:46:47] Yeah.

[00:46:47] In that pair.

[00:46:48] Yeah.

[00:46:49] And I think that's Bernard and he's not the smartest person.

[00:46:52] Well, I think she, she pinpoints nicely what his biggest issue here is, which maybe actually

[00:46:58] makes him like ideal for this job where he's supposed to follow this book of instructions.

[00:47:03] But she says to him, you'll need to think outside the order.

[00:47:07] I know it won't be easy.

[00:47:08] It will be like trying to think of a color you've never seen, which I'm like that you're

[00:47:14] calling him out, but it's also, yeah, yeah, exactly.

[00:47:16] Yeah.

[00:47:17] Yeah.

[00:47:18] It's such a great way to put it too.

[00:47:21] And yeah, and she just throws off like, oh, and release the man from mechanical that you

[00:47:25] arrested.

[00:47:25] Show some mercy.

[00:47:26] And she throws it out like it's a command, but, and I don't imagine that Bernard loves

[00:47:31] her bossing him around.

[00:47:33] No.

[00:47:34] And also Bernard just flat ignores her.

[00:47:37] Yeah.

[00:47:38] Doesn't even consider it.

[00:47:40] Yeah.

[00:47:40] Yeah.

[00:47:41] And then I'll come back later.

[00:47:43] So by the way, so inside this vault, you brought up those like kind of step things.

[00:47:49] They're like on the ground and they're also on the top upside down.

[00:47:52] They'd light up.

[00:47:52] Um, I noticed on my second watch that they, first of all, they seem to be numbered.

[00:47:58] Like we see two next to Meadows head that say like 103 and 104.

[00:48:04] Um, and it also looks like there are periodically handles like, so that maybe it looks like there

[00:48:10] might be drawers.

[00:48:12] Okay.

[00:48:13] And like, what's really interesting is that that display at the end, if it is a display,

[00:48:19] that kind of floaty bluish thing that's there at the end, that, that, that's obviously much

[00:48:26] more advanced technology than anything we've seen in it.

[00:48:30] Right.

[00:48:31] Or anything we've seen in the rest of the silo.

[00:48:33] Right.

[00:48:34] But we know, we know that they're trying to keep their technology more limited.

[00:48:39] Yeah.

[00:48:41] And this is the super secret bunker.

[00:48:43] It's the super, super secret bunker.

[00:48:45] Yeah.

[00:48:48] Yeah.

[00:48:48] And we also learn in the sequence that, um, Juliet warned the down deep about the cameras.

[00:48:54] So the cameras are now mostly knocked out below one 20.

[00:48:58] And I like this exchange about Juliet where they both have to give her begrudging respects

[00:49:03] where, you know, um, Meadows is like, how did she know about the cameras?

[00:49:08] And he was like, as far as I can tell, she simply figured it out.

[00:49:10] And Meadows is like, she was really something, wasn't she?

[00:49:14] Yeah.

[00:49:14] That's pretty cool.

[00:49:17] So yeah.

[00:49:18] So Bernard also says, uh, Juliet is outside my analytics entirely because he can't think

[00:49:23] of colors.

[00:49:23] He can't think of.

[00:49:24] And, um, he does say though.

[00:49:27] Yeah.

[00:49:27] It's unlikely Juliet could survive in 17.

[00:49:30] It's been dead since before Meadows time is shadows.

[00:49:33] So we've been saying 25 years, but that means at least 25 years.

[00:49:37] But I know he doesn't say before my time.

[00:49:41] No.

[00:49:42] He just says before Meadows was a shadow.

[00:49:45] So how long has Bernard been head of IT?

[00:49:47] How old is Bernard?

[00:49:49] That's a good question.

[00:49:51] That's a good question.

[00:49:52] I don't know.

[00:49:53] What do you think?

[00:49:54] How old do you think he is?

[00:49:55] 60s?

[00:49:55] 60.

[00:49:56] Yeah.

[00:49:56] Maybe 65.

[00:49:58] Yeah.

[00:49:59] Hmm.

[00:50:00] Okay.

[00:50:00] Okay.

[00:50:03] And meanwhile, in judicial.

[00:50:05] Yeah.

[00:50:05] So back in judicial, Bernard asks Sims play by common about quote unquote,

[00:50:10] the people he had him pull in the ones that may have seen what Nichols put on their computers

[00:50:15] and Sims tells him they're all being put on the medication.

[00:50:19] Uh, but the two who were helping Juliet, Patrick Kennedy, Rick Gomez and Danny Bly,

[00:50:25] who's not seen this episode have been, they have not been put on the medication yet.

[00:50:29] Those two.

[00:50:30] And they're in judicial seclusion, a fact that seems to please Bernard because he has

[00:50:35] a plan.

[00:50:36] And then we see judicial seclusion and yikes, that looks really rough.

[00:50:42] Like it does.

[00:50:43] It does.

[00:50:44] It's like proper, proper Guantanamo Bay black bag over the head job.

[00:50:48] Yeah.

[00:50:49] It's like, even there's blood, like it's splitting the corners of his mouth.

[00:50:53] Yeah.

[00:50:53] It's like the belt.

[00:50:55] He's got like a gag belt thing in his mouth.

[00:50:58] Um, and yeah, it's like common going, why do they tie these down things so tight?

[00:51:03] It's like, yeah, we know you Sims.

[00:51:06] We know you, you tied that back.

[00:51:09] Yeah.

[00:51:10] I have to say that this is much more violent than we would get in the books.

[00:51:15] We don't really see people being tortured like that.

[00:51:18] Damn though.

[00:51:19] Um, and then we get that, we alluded to the banter between them.

[00:51:22] It's like, everyone knows who you are.

[00:51:24] Sims parents threaten their kids with you.

[00:51:26] If they don't eat their broccoli, he says, kids got to eat their broccoli.

[00:51:31] Yeah.

[00:51:31] Like when, when, when Sims gets jolly, when Sims gets jovial, that's the point you've really

[00:51:36] got to run.

[00:51:37] Yeah.

[00:51:38] When Sims is quiet and forbidding.

[00:51:40] You're on safe ground there.

[00:51:42] When, when Sims is trying to be nice to you, that's when you got to be really worried.

[00:51:48] Yeah, exactly.

[00:51:49] Yeah.

[00:51:50] If he comes into your apartment and takes a beer, I will never get over what he did to

[00:51:54] Mars.

[00:51:54] No, and nor should you.

[00:51:57] Justice for deputy moms.

[00:51:59] And Patrick will never get over what happened with his wife.

[00:52:03] And he says, you already took my wife, Doris.

[00:52:06] And there ain't nothing you can take from me now.

[00:52:09] And, um, Sims says, not everyone who knows things needs to die.

[00:52:13] And Patrick, can you stop saying mysterious shit for just a second and tell me why the

[00:52:19] fuck I'm here?

[00:52:21] Oh, Patrick, I will miss you.

[00:52:24] Um, so Sims basically offers Patrick the Gloria treatment.

[00:52:27] He can have the drug that makes him forget that his wife is dead, but he's like, yeah,

[00:52:32] no, I don't want to be wandering the hall looking for my wife.

[00:52:35] Um, cause I don't remember she's dead.

[00:52:37] He's like, take me back 22 years before I even met her.

[00:52:42] Just erase it all.

[00:52:42] So, so this is an interesting question.

[00:52:45] So Patrick Kennedy is a middle aged guy, sort of mid forties, maybe a little older.

[00:52:52] So you're going to have a guy in his mid forties wandering around, imagining he's thinking he's

[00:52:57] 22.

[00:52:58] Well, I mean, I guess he would know his age, but he just would forget.

[00:53:02] I don't know.

[00:53:03] I don't know how it works in the show.

[00:53:04] No, but, but my, but my question was going to be Alicia, if there was a drug you could

[00:53:08] take for an evening that made you think you were 22, would you take, would you take that

[00:53:12] drug?

[00:53:13] Cause I was thinking about it.

[00:53:15] I might quite enjoy thinking I was 22 for an evening.

[00:53:19] I, am I going to be in public?

[00:53:22] Yeah.

[00:53:23] Let's say you're going to be in public.

[00:53:24] Like, Oh, I know.

[00:53:26] No, not if I don't get to also look 22 and my body work, the way it did when I was 22.

[00:53:34] I've got to say, I've got, I've got, I've got, I've had a cold this week, which you can

[00:53:37] probably tell listeners.

[00:53:39] I've had like issues with my shoulder this week.

[00:53:41] So yeah.

[00:53:42] The, the idea of thinking I'm 22, like had a certain bent appeal to be honest.

[00:53:48] I mean, I just want to actually have the 20, give me the 22 year old simulate simulate

[00:53:53] simulant Android body.

[00:53:54] I'll take.

[00:53:54] Oh, definitely.

[00:53:56] Absolutely.

[00:53:57] I'm there.

[00:54:00] So yeah.

[00:54:01] I mean, obviously we're going to talk about this more in a bit, but I guess at least we

[00:54:05] know what happened to Patrick and Danny.

[00:54:08] Well, we know what happened to Patrick.

[00:54:09] We don't, we know that Danny is, it's presumably somewhere.

[00:54:14] I mean, poor little Danny.

[00:54:16] He's like our Scotty stand in for the book readers.

[00:54:19] He's somewhere in a bag with a belt in his mouth like that.

[00:54:22] Like, or is it just because Patrick is mouthy and he caused trouble?

[00:54:26] No, I think if you're in judicial seclusion, you've got to back up at your head.

[00:54:30] But it, did it have to be that tight?

[00:54:34] It didn't have to be, but it probably was.

[00:54:37] I mean, would they do that to Danny?

[00:54:40] I don't know.

[00:54:40] Oh.

[00:54:41] And of course, yeah, we, I mean, the fact that they're not mentioning Lucas, it's getting

[00:54:47] personal.

[00:54:49] You're feeling quite attacked by this now.

[00:54:54] I'm just, I just need the listeners.

[00:54:56] Like, even if you're not a book reader, don't forget about Lucas.

[00:55:00] Lucas.

[00:55:01] Love Lucas, our stargazer extraordinaire.

[00:55:05] But yeah, he was, he was arrested before all these other people they're talking about

[00:55:09] being taken in.

[00:55:10] So that's, I don't think he's included in that.

[00:55:13] Those people you took who might've.

[00:55:15] Yeah.

[00:55:15] And interestingly, they don't seem to be putting him on the medicine, which seems like the

[00:55:20] kind of thing they would do.

[00:55:23] I mean, yeah, we don't know.

[00:55:25] Yeah.

[00:55:26] We don't know.

[00:55:26] They just basically.

[00:55:27] Lucas knows quite a bit.

[00:55:30] They are loudly not mentioning him for three episodes now.

[00:55:34] Three whole episodes.

[00:55:35] God damn it.

[00:55:35] Okay.

[00:55:35] To be fair, the first one only took place in the other silo.

[00:55:37] But two episodes now.

[00:55:38] Two episodes.

[00:55:42] Episode four.

[00:55:42] I think the listeners need to know that when, when we said three episodes and two episodes,

[00:55:47] Alicia like put her fingers up like she's count on count from Sesame Street.

[00:55:57] Yeah.

[00:55:57] So, okay.

[00:55:58] So the people that they did bring though in though, like they just said the people.

[00:56:02] So that's like suitably vague.

[00:56:04] Obviously we're talking about Patrick and Danny, but do they also mean the nine people who were

[00:56:10] working in the janitor's closet at the time?

[00:56:14] Yes.

[00:56:14] I thought so.

[00:56:16] Because why leave, why leave loose ends?

[00:56:19] Because it's like, yeah, yeah.

[00:56:21] Bernard did the whole silly, you know, cover your eyes and turn around thing.

[00:56:24] But I don't think anybody would have thought that was like adequate, adequate security measure.

[00:56:31] No.

[00:56:32] Yeah.

[00:56:33] I mean, rough.

[00:56:33] Like talk about, uh, you know, dangers on the job.

[00:56:36] But also like at some point you've got to be a bit careful, surely if you're judicial to

[00:56:42] have all these lobotom, all these people missing or like wandering around lobotomized or.

[00:56:48] Although, okay.

[00:56:48] So as we get this drug explained.

[00:56:51] And so I will say the drug seems to be based on a concept from the books, but so far is being

[00:56:56] implemented differently.

[00:56:57] Um, so as it's explained on the show, because that's all we know, um, they say it's, it's

[00:57:05] for, you know, they're telling people it's for anxiety.

[00:57:07] That makes sense.

[00:57:08] Actually, the drug it's based on is an anxiety drug.

[00:57:11] Um, and yeah, it's, it seems in the show, like they can erase a specific amount of time,

[00:57:21] which is kind of magic, but okay, fine.

[00:57:24] Is that what you're understanding about it?

[00:57:26] So like they could say.

[00:57:28] They seem to be able to like quite precisely give you an amount of drug that will take you

[00:57:33] back a week or two weeks or 20 years.

[00:57:36] Or do they just say that, um, because they knew that Patrick wasn't going to survive?

[00:57:44] Yeah.

[00:57:45] It's a good point.

[00:57:46] But then it just makes it.

[00:57:48] So the people in, in the janitorial closet, they only need to forget like the last, you

[00:57:53] know, day or so, however long it's been.

[00:57:56] Yeah.

[00:57:56] It's been, I've been about three or four or five days probably by this point.

[00:58:01] Maybe.

[00:58:02] Yeah.

[00:58:03] Yeah.

[00:58:03] How long has Juliet, cause Juliet just ate this.

[00:58:05] This episode.

[00:58:07] I don't know.

[00:58:08] Yeah.

[00:58:08] Yeah.

[00:58:10] Okay.

[00:58:10] Well, so Billings meanwhile is called to see Meadows in her apartment and Meadows asks him

[00:58:16] about the report that Billings is putting together about Juliet's cleaning.

[00:58:20] And Billings says he needs one more interview, but four out of the five raiders that he did

[00:58:26] speak to, um, not to mention the mayor himself.

[00:58:29] They say that Juliet did say she wanted to go out.

[00:58:32] So Meadows asks him to show her the report once it's ready before anyone else.

[00:58:37] And, um, yeah, it was funny to see Billings mystified by the Frisbee.

[00:58:43] What do you think it was?

[00:58:45] I don't know, but it's beautiful.

[00:58:48] It's beautiful.

[00:58:49] Well, I guess it's a pleasing form, but it's interesting that she doesn't know, but Bernard

[00:58:55] does know what a Pez dispenser is.

[00:58:57] So...

[00:58:58] Well, he thinks he knows what a Pez dispenser is.

[00:59:01] I don't...

[00:59:02] The way he said it, I believed him.

[00:59:03] I mean, he didn't explain it, but I...

[00:59:05] No, no, no, because this is the thing.

[00:59:07] I don't think he's lying.

[00:59:08] I think he...

[00:59:09] I think he thinks he knows what a Pez dispenser is.

[00:59:12] But is that the same thing as actually knowing what a Pez dispenser is?

[00:59:16] Yeah.

[00:59:17] I don't...

[00:59:17] I mean...

[00:59:19] I just think that Bernard still knows more than, um, Meadows.

[00:59:24] Because she was his shadow, but for how long, at what point did she back out?

[00:59:27] Yeah.

[00:59:28] And at what point do you...

[00:59:30] Is there certain information that you hold back from your shadow until the very end of

[00:59:35] the...

[00:59:36] Right.

[00:59:37] The apprenticeship, the transition process?

[00:59:39] Yeah, I would imagine that for something like this, there might even be several phases,

[00:59:44] you know?

[00:59:44] Yeah.

[00:59:45] Yeah.

[00:59:46] And then, this is also...

[00:59:48] Oh, I love Billings.

[00:59:49] He just suddenly feels the urge to confess he has a syndrome.

[00:59:52] So I feel like this is the beginning of his coming out tour.

[00:59:55] Yeah.

[00:59:57] Yeah.

[00:59:58] And I love the...

[01:00:00] I love, um, Meadows' response to it.

[01:00:04] Which is to basically say, yeah, it's surprising that more people don't have it.

[01:00:10] We're not meant to live like moles.

[01:00:13] Mm.

[01:00:13] Basically.

[01:00:14] Yeah.

[01:00:15] Which is something that has occurred to me ever since season one.

[01:00:19] That this is just a natural consequence of an unnatural environment.

[01:00:23] But like I said earlier, that whole bit about no, none of us have walked more than 200 feet

[01:00:28] in a straight line.

[01:00:29] That's a really obvious line, but quite a profound one.

[01:00:33] Mm-hmm.

[01:00:33] Like, I hadn't considered it until she said it, but of course, nobody's walked more than

[01:00:38] 200 feet in a straight line.

[01:00:40] Yeah.

[01:00:40] Yeah.

[01:00:41] Like, obviously.

[01:00:42] Yeah.

[01:00:43] Well, it's funny.

[01:00:44] It seems like, um, the writers are definitely reading reader theories because she's like,

[01:00:48] some people think it's a blood disorder or vitamin deficiency.

[01:00:51] And obviously that's what Billings thought in the first season because we see him with like

[01:00:54] the ginger and the, you know, I'm worried about if he's passing it on.

[01:00:57] Um, but she says, yeah, that it rather it's a natural human reaction to an unnatural situation,

[01:01:03] which is a very popular thing that people have been talking about online.

[01:01:07] But also just that Meadows is like when he's like, I have the syndrome.

[01:01:11] She's like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[01:01:12] You know, Sims said it's that they'd made an allowance and it's time we removed the stigma

[01:01:18] caused unnecessarily by a few discriminatory phrases in the pact.

[01:01:22] I want to know what those discriminatory phrases are.

[01:01:25] I want to know more about the pact.

[01:01:28] Yeah.

[01:01:29] I think, yeah, that's, that's like, if that, that to me is, is my personal equivalent of Lucas.

[01:01:36] Like if we don't find out more about the order and more about the pact by the end of this,

[01:01:41] this season, I'm going to be distinctly underwhelmed.

[01:01:46] What do you need to know about the order and the pact?

[01:01:49] Well, I need to know, are the order and the pact two completely distinct parallel things?

[01:01:58] Or are there ways in which they are, are there parts of the order?

[01:02:03] Are there parts of the pact that are lifted from the order?

[01:02:06] Are there parts where they intersect?

[01:02:09] The pact, basically.

[01:02:11] I mean, because whoever, so the order we know is for the heads of IT and their shadows, I guess.

[01:02:19] And the pact is for everyone else.

[01:02:22] But of course, the people who read the order have also read the pact.

[01:02:27] So what's the point in duplicating?

[01:02:28] Well, this is what I'm saying because did the people that wrote the order also write the pact?

[01:02:36] Okay.

[01:02:36] And were there things that they wanted everybody to know?

[01:02:39] Oh, but I mean.

[01:02:40] And were there things they only wanted some people to know?

[01:02:42] But I'm just saying if there are things they want everybody to know, that all goes in the pact

[01:02:47] because the people who read the order also read the pact.

[01:02:49] Yeah.

[01:02:50] But what I'm saying is that the, the, the original authors of both documents are likely to have been the same people.

[01:02:58] Are, are.

[01:03:00] Okay.

[01:03:00] Yeah.

[01:03:01] Okay.

[01:03:01] Okay.

[01:03:02] I will cease to comment.

[01:03:03] Okay.

[01:03:04] Okay.

[01:03:04] So this is actually a great moment to pause for a second.

[01:03:08] We'll be right back to talk about Sims and a raider named Reggie.

[01:03:15] Okay.

[01:03:16] So Sims goes to speak to a skilled retired raider named Reggie Smalls played by Kieran Giacinas.

[01:03:22] And he brings up a time that the man saved some kids from a madman, a name the man apparently never speaks.

[01:03:30] And Sims is calling back retired raiders to help with the situation in the silo.

[01:03:35] And Reggie supports that move.

[01:03:37] But Reggie is not thrilled when he finds out that he's being sent down to mechanical and at his age.

[01:03:42] Sims is calling in an old debt though, that apparently involved giving Reggie five minutes alone with someone named Archie Brent.

[01:03:51] So yeah, this was also, this was quite a frosty conversation.

[01:03:56] Like he's like, you can call me Rob.

[01:03:58] He's like, no, sir, I can't.

[01:04:02] But again, it's Sims, it's Sims being charming.

[01:04:05] It's Sims being buddy, buddy.

[01:04:06] And that's when you've got to worry.

[01:04:09] At least you didn't take a beer this time.

[01:04:11] Yeah.

[01:04:12] But it does.

[01:04:13] I do wonder if he's like setting him up somehow.

[01:04:15] Like, what did you think of Reggie, first of all?

[01:04:18] Um, I mean, Reggie just strikes me as like somebody that took a lot of pride and a lot of pleasure in his work.

[01:04:26] Put it that way.

[01:04:27] His professional life was also probably his hobby.

[01:04:31] Yeah.

[01:04:31] Um, and rather like Sims, he is a guy that's comfortable with the idea of righteous violence.

[01:04:39] You know, it's okay beating people up because you're beating people up in a good cause.

[01:04:44] Yeah.

[01:04:45] Um, and yeah, I like the, um, call me Rob.

[01:04:50] No, no, I won't do that because like, yeah, I don't think that's anything against Sims.

[01:04:56] It just wouldn't occur to him to do that because that's like a breach of the chain of command.

[01:05:03] Like you, you just wouldn't do that.

[01:05:06] And are we meant to take it that Archie Brett is the, is the maniac is the guy that was killing, is the guy that was killing.

[01:05:14] Yeah.

[01:05:14] But that's, yeah, that's my question.

[01:05:16] So he got five minutes alone with him.

[01:05:18] Was it five minutes to beat him up or was it five minutes because it was like a family member or a lover or who knows?

[01:05:26] No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[01:05:27] You think it was like a violent five minutes?

[01:05:29] This was five minutes.

[01:05:30] And actually he asked for five minutes.

[01:05:32] Sims gave him 10.

[01:05:34] Okay.

[01:05:34] Um, yeah.

[01:05:35] So I, no, I think this, I think that was to, I took it that that was to rearrange the guy's face.

[01:05:41] Okay.

[01:05:41] Okay.

[01:05:42] Yeah.

[01:05:42] I thought it could go either way, but yeah, you're probably right.

[01:05:45] Okay.

[01:05:46] Um, so Sims is calling it a debt, but considering it seems he has a quite frosty relationship with this man.

[01:05:53] Um, and obviously he brings up his own age.

[01:05:56] Like, why do you want me to be the one in the most dangerous part?

[01:06:00] Do you think that Sims just thinks he's the best or do you think there's some other reason that he's the one he's picking for this job?

[01:06:07] I think Sims is picking him because he has a reputation.

[01:06:11] Hmm.

[01:06:12] You know, he's the guy that caught Archie Britt or whoever.

[01:06:15] He, because he thinks he, he knows he's like trigger happy, whatever.

[01:06:18] No, I think, I think he thinks that, I think he thinks that, that he will intimidate people in the, in the, in the down deep.

[01:06:26] Okay.

[01:06:27] Just because he has the reputation of, you know, he's kind of the, you know, he's kind of the raider that gets things done.

[01:06:32] Yeah.

[01:06:33] He's the guy that caught the maniac.

[01:06:35] Okay.

[01:06:35] Okay.

[01:06:37] So meanwhile, Billings is conducting his last interview for the report about Juliet's cleaning.

[01:06:43] And it's with Jean, by Karika Sinani.

[01:06:46] This was his former students who we met last season, who had to report him for trying to get into Juliet's apartment at the end of the season.

[01:06:54] And she was also present when Juliet was arrested in the cornfield and she can't help but let her mounting doubts shine through to her former teacher.

[01:07:04] And so Billings goes to Meadows to tell her that he's doubting now too, because, you know, Nichols told him that she didn't say that she wanted to go outside when he was arresting her.

[01:07:16] And, you know, he's been thinking about that ever since.

[01:07:19] And he's like, you know, there should have been an inquiry before it was sent out.

[01:07:23] And I love how Meadows is like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[01:07:25] It's in the pact.

[01:07:26] I know.

[01:07:26] I know.

[01:07:28] Yeah.

[01:07:28] Yeah.

[01:07:29] But it's also like Billings, maybe put a bit of a rush on getting this report written.

[01:07:34] It's been several days now.

[01:07:37] Like, I can only assume that the delay is for the Raiders getting up from the, getting from the mids to the up top.

[01:07:43] Because he does say it's a long walk.

[01:07:46] But I mean, come on.

[01:07:47] You've got to put a bit of a rush on these things.

[01:07:49] It's not like, it's not like this is a, it's not like this is a regulation cleaning.

[01:07:53] This is the first cleaning in history that the person sent out didn't clean.

[01:07:59] You know, I'm hard, I'm hard put to think what your priorities are that would be more important than closing that particular case.

[01:08:07] I think it's because it is his top priority.

[01:08:10] And I would say he's someone who says if it's worth doing, it's worth doing correctly.

[01:08:16] Especially something that important.

[01:08:17] He wants to be careful and make sure he has it correct.

[01:08:20] Yeah, but I think in this particular case, part of doing it correctly is doing it promptly as well.

[01:08:25] Well, he couldn't do it before he got to talk to everyone.

[01:08:28] It's true.

[01:08:30] But also like Meadows is going, you're telling me this now?

[01:08:34] Yeah.

[01:08:35] Yeah, it's like that, that, that, that, that horse is, that horse, you're not only closing this door after the horse has bolted.

[01:08:42] The horse has literally gone over the hill.

[01:08:45] Like, it's a bit late to be racing this now, Paul.

[01:08:49] But it is, you know, I appreciate how the gene she's trying this entire time we saw last season and we see this season.

[01:08:57] She's trying to toe the line where she feels morally wrong, but she's trying not to, you know, do something that will get her in trouble.

[01:09:06] So when he interviews her, she says, they say they were just, uh, he says, yeah, that the person, they say they were just focused on their job.

[01:09:14] They say if the others heard her ask to go out, then that's what she said.

[01:09:18] And Billings knows Jean and he's like, nah, this, she's being cagey.

[01:09:23] Um, but it's just so innocuous, but not saying no, she wouldn't say no.

[01:09:30] Yeah.

[01:09:31] Yeah.

[01:09:33] Oh, did you notice by the way, in while Jean is coming in to talk to Billings for this interview, they throw a woman into a cell.

[01:09:43] And I tried to, I tried to pause.

[01:09:44] I didn't get a good look at her face, but she yells, I know what I saw.

[01:09:49] I'm not lying.

[01:09:51] It's someone new, but I couldn't see exactly who it was.

[01:09:54] Do you have any thoughts on that?

[01:09:55] I couldn't see who it was, but crucially, it's not, I don't think it's anybody from mechanical.

[01:10:01] So maybe Bernard is at least partially accepting some of Meadows advice, if not all of it.

[01:10:09] Maybe.

[01:10:09] Okay.

[01:10:10] Maybe there was someone, uh, like arresting someone from the mids or I guess they're up top there.

[01:10:16] Yeah.

[01:10:16] Yeah.

[01:10:18] Okay.

[01:10:19] Well, so Meadows says she tells Billings she'll take it from there and she retreats into her apartment to watch.

[01:10:25] A to watch home videos of families from the before times.

[01:10:28] She sees them playing on the beach or in the snow, riding a horse, celebrating a birthday above ground.

[01:10:34] Things that Mary Meadows is cursed to know exist, but has never gotten or will never get to experience herself.

[01:10:42] And a tear slides down her cheek.

[01:10:44] So if you were in that world, would you want to know about the outside?

[01:10:51] About what things were like before?

[01:10:53] Or?

[01:10:53] It's a good question.

[01:10:56] Um, no, I don't think I would.

[01:10:58] I'm very much, I'm very much of the mindset that if, if I can't do anything about it, I'd rather not know.

[01:11:05] Okay.

[01:11:06] Hmm.

[01:11:08] Yeah.

[01:11:08] I always want to know.

[01:11:09] I always want to know.

[01:11:10] Okay.

[01:11:11] Well, this is what makes the podcast.

[01:11:13] Yeah.

[01:11:14] This is what makes the podcast good.

[01:11:15] We're yin and yang.

[01:11:18] Where, where do you think that Mary got these videos?

[01:11:21] I don't know.

[01:11:22] And also that projector thing looks, it looks more modern than modern if you know what I mean.

[01:11:29] Yeah.

[01:11:30] Like it's slightly ahead of.

[01:11:30] I mean, it looks like it's something from our near future.

[01:11:34] Mm-hmm.

[01:11:35] Yeah.

[01:11:35] I agree.

[01:11:36] I agree.

[01:11:37] It looks like, yeah, something very close to what we have, but.

[01:11:40] But yeah, a little bit past it.

[01:11:42] Mm-hmm.

[01:11:43] Yeah.

[01:11:44] I think, I personally, I think Judge Meadows is the most unpredictable character on the show.

[01:11:49] Do you agree?

[01:11:50] Yes.

[01:11:50] Or do you think somebody else is?

[01:11:52] Her?

[01:11:52] No, no, no.

[01:11:53] She definitely is.

[01:11:54] Like, I wouldn't put her on the Sims Nard, the Juliet to Sims Nard scale.

[01:11:59] Yeah.

[01:11:59] Because I just think she's worked, her motives are like completely opaque at the moment.

[01:12:04] I don't know what she wants.

[01:12:06] Or where she's going with this.

[01:12:08] But yeah.

[01:12:08] Yeah.

[01:12:09] I'm not sure she actually does.

[01:12:11] Mm-hmm.

[01:12:12] Mm-hmm.

[01:12:14] Okay.

[01:12:15] Well, while all this is going on, Dr. Nichols stages his own rebellion.

[01:12:19] He's still in his very pensive era after losing his daughter in the most oddly hopeful way possible.

[01:12:25] He's strolling around a local garden late at night when he runs into a woman named Phoebe Wells,

[01:12:31] played by Caitlin Ennis Edwards.

[01:12:33] And she's also awake worrying because she's up for the birth lottery to replace the sheriff that was sent out to clean,

[01:12:40] which she only realizes at the end of their conversation is the daughter of the man she's talking to.

[01:12:45] Oops.

[01:12:46] Um, Phoebe does end up winning the lottery and the surgery to remove her birth control is assigned to Pete Nichols.

[01:12:54] But he's given the confidential code orange.

[01:12:58] The patient must not have birth control removed.

[01:13:01] Patient must believe birth control was removed.

[01:13:05] But when it comes time to do that, Pete can't do it.

[01:13:08] And he can't kill this woman's hope after talking to her about it.

[01:13:12] And he's thinking of his own daughter, then the child who would replace her.

[01:13:16] And so he actually takes her birth control out, ignoring his instructions and giving Phoebe a chance to get pregnant.

[01:13:24] So are you worried about Pete with this?

[01:13:28] I'm always worried about Daddy Dr. Nichols.

[01:13:31] Cause like, I, I didn't, I, let's be honest.

[01:13:34] I didn't think he'd make it to season two.

[01:13:37] I thought he was a goner.

[01:13:38] I don't know why you think he's going to die all the time.

[01:13:41] Why him?

[01:13:42] Well, it's like, it's like people between this and Jorah Mormont, people must just go up to him,

[01:13:50] go, I'm sorry.

[01:13:54] Are you all right?

[01:13:56] Is there anything that I can do for you?

[01:13:58] Cause yeah, he just seems to have like developed this line in playing, in playing, um, you know,

[01:14:06] misbegotten, misbegotten characters.

[01:14:09] Hmm.

[01:14:10] That conversation in the park is heartbreaking.

[01:14:13] Yeah.

[01:14:13] Like it's really well done between the two actors.

[01:14:16] It's this really stilted conversation where they're saying a lot without actually saying all that much.

[01:14:25] Yeah.

[01:14:27] Yeah.

[01:14:27] He says, um, having a baby is a venture of hope.

[01:14:31] People who planted these trees didn't live long enough to sit under them.

[01:14:35] And I just, I think about how all these people that I talk to now in our world today who don't want to have kids because of the state of the world.

[01:14:44] And that just really strikes me.

[01:14:45] Having a baby is a venture of hope.

[01:14:47] Yeah.

[01:14:49] Yeah.

[01:14:51] All right.

[01:14:52] Well, what is, how does, um, what Dr. Nichols did at the end or didn't do, how does that affect your opinion of him or your opinion of his character?

[01:15:01] Oh, he's definitely, he's definitely moved.

[01:15:03] He's definitely moved a long way on the, uh, Juliette to Simms' art scale.

[01:15:07] And he's moved in a positive direction.

[01:15:09] He's definitely like moving towards Juliette.

[01:15:11] He's like a two.

[01:15:12] He's like a two now.

[01:15:14] Um, yeah.

[01:15:16] Yeah.

[01:15:16] And I mean, the thing is he probably won't get caught because this, this birth control is, it's not foolproof anyway.

[01:15:26] So, um, unless, unless he struggles to dispose of the little birth control chip thing, whatever it is, um, he should probably be getting, he should probably get away with it.

[01:15:40] Provided he doesn't do it again.

[01:15:41] Well, but the thing is if the woman gets pregnant, then they will see that she doesn't have a thing in there.

[01:15:48] Oh, what?

[01:15:48] When the baby is delivered.

[01:15:50] Yeah.

[01:15:50] Well, I mean, yeah.

[01:15:51] When she gets pregnant, they're going to be like, what?

[01:15:53] Well, that's what I'm saying.

[01:15:54] Is the birth control like 100% effective?

[01:15:58] I mean, well, yeah, but then they would give her a sonogram if she's pregnant regardless, right?

[01:16:03] Yeah.

[01:16:04] Yeah.

[01:16:04] But that's what I'm saying.

[01:16:05] People with the birth control left in, do they sometimes get pregnant?

[01:16:11] I mean, it could fail, but then they would give her a sonogram regardless and they would see that the birth control was out.

[01:16:16] The birth control thing wasn't there anymore.

[01:16:18] Okay.

[01:16:19] Sorry.

[01:16:19] I'm being, sorry.

[01:16:20] I'm being a bit dense.

[01:16:21] That's okay.

[01:16:22] Yeah.

[01:16:23] Sorry.

[01:16:23] I get what you're saying.

[01:16:52] Okay.

[01:16:54] Teddy is being held.

[01:16:55] The Shirley led mob begins loudly demanding Teddy's release and Cooper pushes to the front of the crowd, no doubt feeling guilt and frustration that he might have helped bring this mob to this volatile moment.

[01:17:07] And at this time, Patrick reluctantly emerges from an alley and throws a firebomb, what we might call a Molotov cocktail.

[01:17:15] Basically a burning rag rigged to explode one of those beer bottles that Luke wants to see being made.

[01:17:20] Well, here's one being unmade.

[01:17:23] Cooper tries, but fails to stop him from throwing this and Reggie, the reluctantly unretired raider shoots Patrick, but also hits Cooper in the chest.

[01:17:33] And there's a stampede and Cooper bleeds out and Hank reports two casualties to Billings, an asshole nobody knew who kicked it off.

[01:17:42] I hate that Patrick, who's AKA our dear Patrick put some motherfucking respect on his name and their kind Terry Cooper, mechanical born and raised once punched shadow of Juliet Nichols.

[01:18:00] Yeah.

[01:18:00] It was nice to find out that Cooper's first name is Terry.

[01:18:04] That was interesting.

[01:18:04] We at least get a full name for him before he goes.

[01:18:07] Yeah.

[01:18:07] Yeah.

[01:18:09] So, yeah, Cooper, he deserved better, man.

[01:18:13] He deserved better.

[01:18:14] He really did.

[01:18:15] He really, really did.

[01:18:17] Yeah.

[01:18:18] And Patrick, like, I thought he only got hit in the shoulder, but then Hank really, it sounds like he's dead.

[01:18:24] I'm like, no.

[01:18:26] No, he's pretty dead.

[01:18:30] I didn't realize the raider that shot him was the guy that Sims was talking to.

[01:18:35] I have to say the AD.

[01:18:37] I watched the second time now with the audio description on.

[01:18:41] Okay.

[01:18:41] And that told me that it was Reggie.

[01:18:43] Yeah.

[01:18:43] Okay.

[01:18:43] Because he's wearing a helmet.

[01:18:44] So.

[01:18:45] Yeah.

[01:18:46] Yeah.

[01:18:47] Yeah.

[01:18:48] But I feel so bad that Patrick went out like that.

[01:18:50] Like, he did a bad thing to help shitty people for no reward.

[01:18:53] He doesn't even get a watch.

[01:18:55] Yeah.

[01:18:56] No, he doesn't get a watch.

[01:18:58] Doesn't get anything.

[01:19:00] No.

[01:19:00] No.

[01:19:02] Yeah.

[01:19:02] Yeah.

[01:19:03] I did wonder, though, if Sims sent Reggie down because he knows he's trigger happy and they wanted this to go badly.

[01:19:10] But I'm not sure, like, in that situation, is he trigger happy?

[01:19:15] I mean, throwing a firebomb in a closed space is pretty blooming dangerous.

[01:19:22] He, yeah, but the guy was then unarmed because he already threw the thing and he ended up hitting someone else as well.

[01:19:27] So, probably not the best way to have handled that.

[01:19:33] Yeah, you're probably right.

[01:19:34] Yeah.

[01:19:37] It also struck me that, like, so we talked about in the last episode about how it seemed like Judicial was having that tall skinny janitor guy watch Nurse Alice watch Dr. Nichols.

[01:19:51] Yeah.

[01:19:51] And then we kind of get Knox.

[01:19:54] I know we're defending Knox this week and we'll get to that in a minute.

[01:19:57] Yeah, it's kind of our spy on our own, spy as he searches for their spy.

[01:20:01] Why not?

[01:20:01] Exactly.

[01:20:03] It's kind of a mirror image of what's going on with Judicial.

[01:20:06] Yeah.

[01:20:07] Yeah.

[01:20:08] So, Hank, he ends this conversation by asking Billings to come to the Down Deep.

[01:20:14] This worries me a little bit because, remember, in Silo 17, we saw the sheriff was with the Down Deepers starting that rebellion.

[01:20:23] Yeah.

[01:20:25] Yeah.

[01:20:25] But, I mean, surely, like, surely things can parallel each other.

[01:20:30] But, like, if it plays out exactly the same, I mean, like, exactly the same, that's weird.

[01:20:36] Well, but if it's planned, I mean, like I said, this whole idea about them all being exactly the same and this whole rule book about goading mechanical, this is basically a show invention.

[01:20:48] But if they are, if they have this rule book where they're trying to get a specific response, then it would make more sense that it would, history would repeat itself.

[01:20:57] But I don't understand why.

[01:20:59] I don't like this change.

[01:21:00] No, I don't.

[01:21:01] I don't understand why.

[01:21:02] And to go back to the feedback episode, you know, humans are going to human.

[01:21:06] You can't, like, control a situation that precisely.

[01:21:10] Well, yeah, but that, yeah, maybe that's a flaw in the, nobody said whoever made the plans perfect.

[01:21:17] That's true, yeah.

[01:21:17] Yeah.

[01:21:19] Do you think that Cooper's death is successfully going to bring Shirley and Knox back together as allies?

[01:21:25] Yeah, I mean, I think he already kind of had by the end of the episode.

[01:21:29] Yeah.

[01:21:30] Okay, so we see Shirley and Knox meeting together in the graffiti tunnel to the Digger.

[01:21:35] And Knox says they're safe there because there's no cameras, no listeners.

[01:21:39] And he tries to confront Shirley about the, like, the short-sightedness of her recent plan making, specifically with breaking out Teddy in this case.

[01:21:49] And I have the sense that she blames herself as much as Knox for what happened to Cooper.

[01:21:54] Oh, definitely.

[01:21:55] Yeah, definitely.

[01:21:57] And she punches a stone wall and Knox is like, no, if you're going to punch anything, punch me instead.

[01:22:02] And she full-out decks him in the face.

[01:22:04] I properly, I properly lulled at that.

[01:22:06] I properly lulled.

[01:22:10] Who would you be most afraid of being punched in the face by?

[01:22:13] Shirley, Knox, or Juliet?

[01:22:14] See, Knox is definitely the physically stronger of the three.

[01:22:20] But I get the sense that if Juliet punches you, she's going to really punch you.

[01:22:27] And, like, Shirley sort of flailed a bit.

[01:22:30] It was a hard punch, but it wasn't very well-targeted.

[01:22:35] So I'm going to go with Juliet.

[01:22:37] Okay.

[01:22:38] So if I get punched by Juliet, I'm going to know I've been punched.

[01:22:42] I would go with Shirley just because I feel like she's the least likely.

[01:22:46] Like, the other two, I feel like, would pull their punch a little bit.

[01:22:49] And Shirley is just going to go for it.

[01:22:50] I think Knox would.

[01:22:51] I don't think Juliet would.

[01:22:52] If Juliet wanted to punch you, she'd punch you.

[01:22:55] Okay.

[01:22:56] Okay.

[01:22:57] So.

[01:22:58] She did pull the punch with Coop a bit.

[01:23:01] Yeah, and I think Coop.

[01:23:03] And I think she pulled her punch a little bit there.

[01:23:05] Maybe.

[01:23:06] But she was also, she was like, she was going through it in that moment.

[01:23:09] Yeah, she was.

[01:23:10] That's.

[01:23:11] Yeah.

[01:23:12] But yeah, I didn't think you were actually going to punch me.

[01:23:15] I didn't think I was either.

[01:23:19] It kind of felt good because I've been mad at Knox recently.

[01:23:22] But Knox says he's also angry and he also misses Jules.

[01:23:25] But Shirley still believes that Juliet might be out there somewhere,

[01:23:29] which of course she's right about.

[01:23:31] So I can understand to Knox.

[01:23:32] It's like, oh, you crazy conspiracy theorist.

[01:23:35] But no, she really is out there.

[01:23:36] Um, Knox says he also wants to know the truth, but they can't do it the way Shirley's been doing it.

[01:23:42] He points to the digger room where there is a wall of names.

[01:23:46] They didn't know what it meant when they found it as kids.

[01:23:49] But Knox thinks he knows now.

[01:23:51] So we don't get to find out what Knox knows this week.

[01:23:56] But do you have any thoughts or predictions on that?

[01:23:58] No, I've, I've, I, I, I, I sat and thought about this for the longest time.

[01:24:03] And I have no idea what Knox is thinking.

[01:24:06] Have you got any ideas?

[01:24:08] Because I was completely stumped.

[01:24:10] I mean, I think it's got to be something tied to the last rebellion somehow.

[01:24:15] But why would people put their names on a wall?

[01:24:18] Like it could be a memorial, but why would Knox care about,

[01:24:21] like why would Knox find that a useful thing to them right now?

[01:24:23] How is that going to be useful?

[01:24:25] Yeah.

[01:24:25] I don't know.

[01:24:27] It's another intriguing.

[01:24:28] A code?

[01:24:29] A message?

[01:24:31] Could this tie in any way?

[01:24:33] We saw him with that new character, Mark, the wheelchair user last week.

[01:24:37] Could this, and he also had some secret thing that he said to him.

[01:24:42] And then they keep cutting Knox off.

[01:24:43] We don't get to hear Knox's plans.

[01:24:45] So could they be connected to these two things?

[01:24:47] Yeah, possibly.

[01:24:48] So in episode four, can we let Knox finish a sentence?

[01:24:53] The silo season two challenge.

[01:24:55] Yeah.

[01:24:55] Can we, can we let Knox finish an entire sentence?

[01:25:01] Let's not.

[01:25:02] What?

[01:25:03] Well, it's not like him doing his Braveheart thing in the canteen as well.

[01:25:09] Yeah.

[01:25:11] Yeah.

[01:25:12] I'm sure.

[01:25:12] I want to see what Knox's master plans are.

[01:25:15] Because he's doing, he's making moves behind the scenes.

[01:25:18] He is.

[01:25:18] Like I was criticizing him last week, this week.

[01:25:21] You know, I'm going to let him cook.

[01:25:23] See.

[01:25:23] So is he Foxy?

[01:25:25] Is he Foxy or is he not Foxy?

[01:25:27] He's just Knoxy right now.

[01:25:29] Just Knoxy.

[01:25:29] He's just Knoxy.

[01:25:30] Okay.

[01:25:30] Yeah.

[01:25:31] Yeah.

[01:25:31] Well, speaking of Foxy, let's talk some sexy shadows to conclude.

[01:25:37] Uh, so Bernard meets with Meadows to share his plan for letting her go outside.

[01:25:42] He says he will put the cafeteria screens on loop and operate the airlock himself so that

[01:25:48] she can slip out unnoticed.

[01:25:50] She'll have five minutes to get over the hill.

[01:25:52] And he tells her that heads of IT have their own suits, but they both laugh at the notion

[01:25:59] of adapting his to fit her as they're differently shaped.

[01:26:02] Um, he says he'll tell the suit techs to make one for a perspective shadow, but due to the

[01:26:08] secrecy and all, he'll have to take her measurements himself.

[01:26:12] I'm going to say, it was a very, in a very awkwardly, but oddly kind of.

[01:26:21] A hot way.

[01:26:24] I'm not sure hot was the word I'd use, but charged.

[01:26:28] There was chemistry.

[01:26:29] There was chemistry.

[01:26:29] Yeah.

[01:26:30] There was, there was, there was definitely.

[01:26:31] Yeah.

[01:26:32] I'm sure.

[01:26:33] I, I'm certain they had a night of like hot passion in the server room at some point.

[01:26:38] Hmm.

[01:26:39] I don't know.

[01:26:40] It felt like maybe, I don't know.

[01:26:41] Yeah.

[01:26:42] I, I could, I could go either way that it's either something from the past or something.

[01:26:46] Would that have ended there?

[01:26:48] I don't know.

[01:26:49] Yeah.

[01:26:49] So are you allowed to sleep with your shadow?

[01:26:51] I can't think that that's allowed.

[01:26:56] To be honest.

[01:26:57] I don't know.

[01:26:58] Hmm.

[01:27:00] So yeah, you and Abby were right about the flirting thing last week.

[01:27:04] I do wonder though, like I'm always suspicious of Bernard.

[01:27:08] So maybe there is like, he's just lonely because he doesn't, he, he's the only one we haven't

[01:27:14] seen with like family or anything.

[01:27:16] Um, but it could also be his way of manipulating her or possibly.

[01:27:23] I mean, I, I don't think for one second that he's going to abide by that plan.

[01:27:29] Hmm.

[01:27:30] He's not letting her go out.

[01:27:32] I mean, did you believe any of what he said?

[01:27:35] Do you think the suits are real?

[01:27:36] Do you think, is any of that true?

[01:27:40] True.

[01:27:41] I think it probably is because as a lie, that's like, so that, that's so weird.

[01:27:49] It has to be true.

[01:27:50] Yeah.

[01:27:51] Like it doesn't work as a lie.

[01:27:53] It was noticeable that like, she's like, do you need to write down the measurements?

[01:27:57] And he's like, nah.

[01:27:58] Yeah.

[01:27:59] No, he's not making a receipt.

[01:28:02] No way.

[01:28:03] He's just taking one off in his head.

[01:28:05] Yeah.

[01:28:09] And then, so they have this exchange.

[01:28:11] She says, have I been helpful?

[01:28:13] And he says, you're the only person I can talk to.

[01:28:15] And she said, but you just need to talk.

[01:28:17] And that when they do like, she pauses there for a moment.

[01:28:21] I thought she was calling him out for wanting to get it on, but no.

[01:28:24] And then she says, my opinion's neither required nor needed.

[01:28:28] And she's basically, and he's like, no, no, I need your opinion, baby.

[01:28:32] But she's basically calling him out.

[01:28:35] She's like, I said the thing earlier about letting the guy from mechanical go and you didn't do it.

[01:28:40] And now we have two dead people and a deputy station that was on fire.

[01:28:46] And she's like, this seems like it's something straight out of the order.

[01:28:49] Get them to retaliate, which in turn stirs up anti-mechanical resentment,

[01:28:53] which allows you to crush a rebellion.

[01:28:57] Crush how?

[01:28:58] How do you think he's supposed to crush the rebellion?

[01:29:01] Yeah.

[01:29:02] Like, this is the thing I don't get about this.

[01:29:05] If you are going to pick on any group of people within the silo,

[01:29:09] the last people you should be picking on are mechanical.

[01:29:13] Because they can literally kill you by flipping a switch.

[01:29:17] Hmm.

[01:29:17] Like, they can plunge the silo into complete darkness if they want.

[01:29:22] But couldn't you say that about the real world, too?

[01:29:25] Like, isn't that basically what Marxist philosophy is all about?

[01:29:28] Like, the proletariat is realizing they outnumber?

[01:29:31] It is.

[01:29:31] But like, you know, the global proletariat is not as concentrated as it is in the silo.

[01:29:38] And it certainly doesn't, in Marxist terms, it doesn't have a stronger sense of its own identity,

[01:29:44] as mechanical clearly does.

[01:29:46] Because like, any number of speeches by Marx, you know,

[01:29:50] will demonstrate that mechanical and the people living there have a very clear sense

[01:29:54] of identity and communal pride.

[01:29:59] Yeah.

[01:30:00] Yeah.

[01:30:00] So, yeah, I don't get that part of the order.

[01:30:03] And it's what makes me think it might all be a social experiment.

[01:30:06] Because, yeah, you run the same experiment over and over again.

[01:30:11] Yeah.

[01:30:11] And see what results you get.

[01:30:13] Hmm.

[01:30:15] Well, things, Meadows knows that Bernard, I should call him Holland.

[01:30:20] We never call him by his last name.

[01:30:22] She knows he's lying to her.

[01:30:24] She knows, for one, that he lied about Juliet asking to go out.

[01:30:29] And so she tells him to go out and not to come back without her suit.

[01:30:34] Do you think, do you think they're ever going to hook up?

[01:30:37] Do you think, we already said we don't think that he's going to let her outside.

[01:30:41] What do you think is going to happen to her?

[01:30:42] Or is he going to do something?

[01:30:46] I really don't know.

[01:30:48] He's certainly not going to let her out.

[01:30:50] She very definitely wants to go out.

[01:30:54] Mm-hmm.

[01:30:55] Could Sims slip her a bit of the medication in, I don't know, a coffee or something?

[01:31:01] Like, I don't know how else this ends.

[01:31:05] Yeah.

[01:31:05] Because you can't really, like, the mayor has already been murdered.

[01:31:12] I think to have the head judge murdered as well might stretch credibility a little bit.

[01:31:22] Hmm.

[01:31:23] From Bernard's point of view.

[01:31:26] Yeah.

[01:31:26] So, yeah, I'm not sure how this plays out.

[01:31:30] And if she did go outside, what's her plan then?

[01:31:34] Like, does she want to go to 17 because it's dead?

[01:31:37] And, like, she thinks she can carve out an existence there with Juliet?

[01:31:41] No, I think she's going to, like, book it to Silo 15 or something.

[01:31:45] But then, like, she's got to know that that would cause so much trouble if suddenly someone walked over the hill from another silo that you don't know exists.

[01:31:54] Yeah.

[01:31:55] But I don't think she cares.

[01:31:57] I mean, that's why Bernard can't let her go outside.

[01:32:01] Yeah.

[01:32:02] Yeah.

[01:32:02] Oof.

[01:32:04] I don't...

[01:32:04] Meadows, I'm worried about you.

[01:32:06] I...

[01:32:06] Yeah, I think she's going to get some of the, in inverted commas, medicine in her coffee.

[01:32:11] Like, I don't see another way out of this.

[01:32:15] And also, for all we've been joking about it, she does seem to be the only person that Bernard is genuinely fond of.

[01:32:20] So I don't think he would want to kill her if...

[01:32:23] No.

[01:32:23] He could possibly avoid it.

[01:32:25] Mm-hmm.

[01:32:26] No, I agree.

[01:32:27] Which is not to say he wouldn't kill her if he didn't think he had a choice.

[01:32:31] Right.

[01:32:32] Yeah.

[01:32:33] No, I agree with you.

[01:32:35] I agree.

[01:32:36] Well, do you have any final thoughts in this episode or hopes for what might happen next?

[01:32:42] Justice for Coop.

[01:32:44] Justice for Coop.

[01:32:45] Give me Lucas.

[01:32:47] Give me...

[01:32:50] And give Luke some, uh, some packed...

[01:32:53] I want some power.

[01:32:54] I want some packed knowledge, yeah.

[01:32:56] Yeah.

[01:32:58] All right.

[01:32:59] Well, we'll be back here every week breaking down each episode.

[01:33:02] And the next one will be on the usual Friday.

[01:33:05] So you have to wait two days longer this time.

[01:33:07] If you enjoyed this listen and you feel like you got something out of it,

[01:33:10] the best ways that you can help us are to share this episode with other people you think might

[01:33:16] be interested, other Silo fans or people should be Silo fans.

[01:33:19] And also leaving us a positive review wherever you're listening is an enormous help.

[01:33:23] We want to hear your thoughts and theories about the show.

[01:33:26] Uh, we will be putting out periodic mailbag episodes.

[01:33:30] We've already started with that.

[01:33:31] Just email your feedback to woolshiftdustpodcast.gmail.com.

[01:33:36] There's that link in the show notes.

[01:33:38] You'll also find a link to Discord in the show notes where we have a dedicated forum with separate chats per episode,

[01:33:44] plus a book spoiler discussion.

[01:33:46] Um, and also, yeah, when you email, book spoilers are welcome.

[01:33:50] Uh, if it is a book spoiler, then that feedback will be discussed in the SpoilerCast episodes.

[01:33:55] So, speaking of SpoilerCast episodes, this week's SpoilerCast discussion is Solo's story.

[01:34:01] And there's going to be a laundry list of other potential book teases from this episode.

[01:34:05] Patreon and SuperCast subscribers have access to that.

[01:34:08] Uh, plus breakdowns of the silo books and short stories and the season one spoiler rewatch, extra interviews,

[01:34:15] and the ongoing weekly SpoilerCast.

[01:34:18] And I want to welcome some new silo-zins to the silo.

[01:34:22] So, welcome Rupesh K., Michael S., David B., Joseph S., and welcome back Ron A.

[01:34:29] And I want to welcome especially two new story-zins, which is, uh, story-zins or silo-zins who are also canon Padawans.

[01:34:37] So, they have the most access.

[01:34:39] So, that's Sarah LCB and Nathan T.

[01:34:42] Um, but if, like, the whole subscription thing isn't for you, you're not interested in the Dune stuff,

[01:34:47] you're not interested in our holiday stuff,

[01:34:49] there is a new season pass option where you can just get the things that you're interested in related to silo.

[01:34:56] So, you'll find all of those links in the show notes and more information.

[01:35:01] So, Luke, it could be said, you said is basically, uh, it could be said next month after we're done with all this crazy recording?

[01:35:11] Yeah, I think so.

[01:35:13] Because not, not only am I very busy, but also my co-host, my co-host Simon works in, uh, public affairs.

[01:35:20] So, like, the run-up to Christmas is always, like, you know, to, um, to quite a Baneeser Scrooge.

[01:35:26] It's harvest time for the money lenders.

[01:35:28] It's also harvest time for people in PR, apparently.

[01:35:32] Oh, yeah.

[01:35:33] Yeah.

[01:35:33] All the projects by the end of the year, for sure.

[01:35:35] Yeah, exactly.

[01:35:36] Yeah.

[01:35:36] But you can find, you can listen to older episodes with Luke.

[01:35:40] You'll find that link in the show notes.

[01:35:41] And also, you can listen to me on the Star Wars Canon Timeline podcast.

[01:35:45] And also on the Lorehounds.

[01:35:47] We're currently not only a silo going on right now, but Dune Prophecy is also on.

[01:35:53] And so David's leading weekly breakdowns I'm joining him for.

[01:35:56] Have you, did you watch your first episode?

[01:35:58] Yeah, I've got to say, I'm glad we're not doing the weekly breakdowns of that as well.

[01:36:03] Oh, my God.

[01:36:03] It's like, that is, that is heavy.

[01:36:06] That is heavy stuff, man.

[01:36:08] Yeah.

[01:36:09] That is dense.

[01:36:10] But do you, did you like the first episode?

[01:36:12] I did.

[01:36:13] I've got to say, I find Travis, is his name Travis Frimmel?

[01:36:18] Frimmel?

[01:36:18] Yeah, the actor.

[01:36:19] Yeah, I find him, I find him a deeply irritating screen presence.

[01:36:23] Hmm.

[01:36:24] Like.

[01:36:24] I mean, I guess his character is kind of supposed to be Jackass in a way.

[01:36:28] Yeah, but there's just, I never liked him in Vikings.

[01:36:32] There's just something off about the guy.

[01:36:34] Okay.

[01:36:35] So he played Ragnar in Vikings, for anyone who doesn't know that.

[01:36:38] Yeah.

[01:36:38] He's.

[01:36:39] Yeah, I, I, I mean, you've got Olivia Williams, you've got Emily Watson, you've got Mark Strong.

[01:36:45] I mean, you can't really go wrong with that.

[01:36:48] Yeah.

[01:36:49] No, I think, so people were complaining that he was playing Ragnar as, you know, this Desmond

[01:36:54] Hart character.

[01:36:55] Yeah, he kind of was a bit.

[01:36:57] But I, no, I'm, I'm really into, because I got also into the books at that part of the

[01:37:02] timeline.

[01:37:03] So I'm really into like this political, uh, with the, with the three big families, you

[01:37:08] know, the emperor's family and the Atreides and Harkonnens.

[01:37:12] But anyway, yeah.

[01:37:13] Check all that out on the Lorehounds feed, weekly breakdowns.

[01:37:16] Um, and there's lots of other stuff happening over there as always, including finally getting

[01:37:22] out the Agatha wrap up coven personality test.

[01:37:25] So if you're curious what that means, it's, it was a lot of fun to put together.

[01:37:29] Uh, that's over there.

[01:37:30] Um, also ramblers rising is a radioactive ramblings coverage of red rising plus they're doing

[01:37:36] Ghibli movies.

[01:37:37] And I think they're about to start arcane as well.

[01:37:40] And of course I'll check out nevermind the music where psychology meets music.

[01:37:46] And yeah, it just teaches you new ways to appreciate music.

[01:37:49] Some classic songs you'll know.

[01:37:52] Any final thoughts?

[01:37:54] Nope.

[01:37:54] That's it.

[01:37:55] You've drained me dry once again.

[01:37:57] I do.

[01:38:00] Um, all right.

[01:38:03] Well, we'll see you in a little over a week back on the usual Friday, as I said, for episode

[01:38:07] four and of course any mailbag episodes and spoiler casts in the meantime, but you know who we

[01:38:13] won't see?

[01:38:14] Cooper.

[01:38:15] Or Patrick.

[01:38:17] Yeah.

[01:38:18] So pour one out for the first fresh casualties of the season.

[01:38:22] Juliet's former shadow and the bitter silo painter who's been reunited with his dear darling

[01:38:27] dead Doris, but who will never ever get that watch.

[01:38:31] Ha ha ha ha!

[01:38:32] Why don't you really think the same thing in the season?

[01:38:32] Shoot chaotic lo temperature off on tap, fail.

[01:38:33] Why don't you watch now, then Patricia Perry and Robbie.

[01:38:33] Kaye M public siarren your damage forward on the antiapult…

[01:38:33] Delaware with a famous army team on tanks and theizzy from Prayer we're noteler.

[01:38:33] Janie, was very reasonable願い for you Arnold.

[01:38:33] Your name being a lawyer had been treated and mot Jasper.