Silo: S2-e4 – "The Harmonium" is upstairs

[00:00:26] Welcome back to Wool-Shift-Dust. I'm Alicia, here with Luke to walk you through all the murderous machinations of this episode of Silo. We had to wait two extra days for episode four of season two titled The Harmonium, but Luke, I guess it was worth the wait?

[00:00:43] Luke- Well, no. Correctly, Alicia, the audience had to wait an extra few days.

[00:00:47] But we've got a screened out!

[00:00:48] Don't rub it in! Don't rub it in!

[00:00:51] Also, I've got a bit of a cold, listeners, so if I sound like Barry White's non-musical English cousin, I apologize.

[00:00:59] S2-e4 A- So James Corden, no, I'm just kidding.

[00:01:02] S2-e4 A- I actually think he can sing nicely.

[00:01:06] So Luke, can you remind people before we get into the episode, what is our book spoiler policy?

[00:01:14] Luke- Okay, so Alicia has read all the books that go to comprise the series Silo.

[00:01:20] I have read none of them, so I am the fountain of all ignorance. But we will be discussing things that happen in the book if they've already happened on screen, either in season one or in the first four episodes of season two.

[00:01:36] S2-e4 A- Yes.

[00:01:37] S2-e4 A- Yes.

[00:01:37] So Luke's representing the non-readers of you out there in the audience, so we will make sure to protect you all from unnecessary book spoilers.

[00:01:46] But of course, we are about to now jump into spoilers for everything that's aired on television up to and through episode four.

[00:01:54] S2-e4 A- For those of you who do want more book spoilers, those are saved for the book club spoiler casts, which are released each week after this episode.

[00:02:04] And this week's topic will be shadowing the head of IT because that's a story point that looms large after this week's events.

[00:02:12] I'll talk about the book club more at the end.

[00:02:15] S2-e4 A- So episode four of season two, The Harmonium, this aired, we're back on Fridays.

[00:02:20] So this airs December 6th, 2024. Viewers at home had to wait two extra days because of the early episode last week.

[00:02:29] The writer of this episode was Sal Calleros. He is an EP this season known for shows like Snowfall and The Good Doctor and Sneaky Pete.

[00:02:40] And the director, this is the first season, the first episode of the season not directed by Michael Dinner.

[00:02:46] This one was directed by Arik Avellino, who's a fresher face in the industry.

[00:02:50] The title obviously refers to the instrument that Solo plays in this episode, which Juliet is about to destroy, which Juliet destroys.

[00:03:00] That instrument, by the way, it's not in the books, the harmonium, but it is a real instrument in the real world.

[00:03:06] Like it's called a pump organ also or reed organ.

[00:03:10] And basically it generates sound by pushing air over these like vibrating thin pieces of metal in a frame that are called reeds.

[00:03:19] Have you heard of this instrument before?

[00:03:21] Yeah, my uncle plays the harmonium.

[00:03:24] Oh, really?

[00:03:25] Or he used to anyway.

[00:03:28] Oh, cool.

[00:03:29] In church.

[00:03:31] Okay.

[00:03:32] Yeah, it does have that organ sound because of the air, I guess.

[00:03:35] Yeah, I suppose the chapel in the village I grew up wasn't really big enough to have a full organ.

[00:03:41] So it had a harmonium instead.

[00:03:43] Oh, that's so cool.

[00:03:46] Yeah.

[00:03:46] So were you Leo pointing me when you saw it?

[00:03:48] I was a little bit Leo pointing me when I saw it.

[00:03:53] What were your overall thoughts on this episode?

[00:03:56] Okay, this is going to take a minute.

[00:03:58] Go ahead.

[00:03:59] Go for it.

[00:03:59] Because I have complicated thoughts on this episode.

[00:04:02] Okay.

[00:04:03] Because there was stuff in here that I really, really liked.

[00:04:07] Mm-hmm.

[00:04:07] Really liked.

[00:04:08] Love the stuff with Juliet and Solo.

[00:04:10] Love the stuff with Meadows and Bernard.

[00:04:13] But there's also stuff in here that I was not so keen on.

[00:04:17] Okay.

[00:04:18] Um, the whole episode felt a little bit rushed.

[00:04:22] Like, I wanted another episode of building tension between the down deep and the up top of the silo.

[00:04:31] It felt like things are coming to a head a bit too quickly.

[00:04:35] And like, one of the things I like about Silo is that it's usually quite subtle in its storytelling.

[00:04:41] This felt very blunt.

[00:04:43] This felt very, this is the plot.

[00:04:46] I am telling you the plot in big, bold capital letters.

[00:04:52] And also, and I'm sorry, hopefully this will be the last time I bring this up.

[00:04:57] But what they are doing with Walker's agoraphobia, really-

[00:05:02] Agoraphobia.

[00:05:03] Agoraphobia is a fear of sexual assault.

[00:05:05] Okay.

[00:05:05] Agoraphobia.

[00:05:06] Agoraphobia.

[00:05:06] What they're doing with Walker's agoraphobia really pisses me off.

[00:05:11] Okay.

[00:05:11] Um, because it's, it's one of the least helpful tropes around illness, disability, mental illness,

[00:05:23] just welfare in general, that you can logic yourself out of feeling the way that you feel.

[00:05:30] That Walker could sort of decide not to be agoraphobic anymore.

[00:05:35] Mm-hmm.

[00:05:36] Um, you know, and like, I'm not agoraphobic.

[00:05:40] I don't know anybody that is, but you know, I have my own problems to deal with.

[00:05:44] And in my line of work, I have to deal with, you know, a wide variety of mental illness,

[00:05:50] you know, problems that students bring to me and trying to help them manage that.

[00:05:54] And one of the least helpful things you can do is like suggest if you tried not feeling

[00:05:59] that way.

[00:06:00] Mm-hmm.

[00:06:02] Mm-hmm.

[00:06:02] And like that, that conversation between Walker and Gloria really, really annoyed me.

[00:06:09] And it kind of spoiled the episode, particularly when you could have done it a completely different

[00:06:14] way.

[00:06:15] The way I would have done it is, um, you know, I'm still scared spitless.

[00:06:20] Mm-hmm.

[00:06:20] And like every moment I'm out here.

[00:06:22] Yeah.

[00:06:23] Is a struggle for me, but I'm going to do it because Juliet needs me and the people in

[00:06:27] the down deep need me and only I can do this.

[00:06:31] Mm-hmm.

[00:06:32] And that would have been so much more constructive than the way they did it.

[00:06:38] Mm-hmm.

[00:06:39] And I'm sorry to like keep harping on about that, but for a show that actually is very

[00:06:43] good on inclusivity and dealing with the world as it is, that was a really bad misstep and

[00:06:54] it really pissed me off.

[00:06:57] Yeah.

[00:06:58] Yeah.

[00:06:59] Yeah.

[00:06:59] No, I completely understand that.

[00:07:01] Um, for me, yeah, I expressed my frustration with that story point in the past.

[00:07:07] It's still there, but I kind of decided like, okay, um, I was frustrated with that and I

[00:07:11] moved on my biggest point of frustration right now.

[00:07:14] And I have to say, I love this episode is my favorite so far, but, um, it does rub

[00:07:19] me the wrong way.

[00:07:21] Just in the way we started to talk about this with last week's episode, um, with how they're

[00:07:27] setting up like, Oh, well the plan says always blame it on mechanical and smack down on them.

[00:07:32] But I, first of all, I don't completely understand how that is effective.

[00:07:38] And sometimes it just feels like really on the nose.

[00:07:40] Like I just, it's scarier when the leaders are killing people in like an insidious behind

[00:07:48] closed curtains way.

[00:07:49] Not when they are like, mob, here is your pitchforks attack, attack, you know?

[00:07:54] Yeah.

[00:07:55] I think, I think on the nose is the same.

[00:07:57] I think we're on the same page there.

[00:07:59] Cause that's what I meant when the store, when I said the storytelling was kind of blunt

[00:08:02] on the nose is probably a better way of putting it.

[00:08:05] Yeah.

[00:08:05] But, um, on the agoraphobia front, uh, I completely agree.

[00:08:11] That's still the case with Martha, but I do have to say they handled that much better with

[00:08:16] Solo in this episode.

[00:08:17] Yes, they do.

[00:08:18] Yes, they did give that proper attention to, and then, and basically what Solo is going

[00:08:23] through is something similar, probably worse because of his, his circumstances have been

[00:08:29] worse for the past, however many years.

[00:08:31] Um, but it's not dissimilar to what Walker should, we should have been seeing from Walker.

[00:08:38] Yeah.

[00:08:39] And that, and that, and that makes what they're doing with Walker even more confusing because

[00:08:43] they, they obviously can integrate this into the story.

[00:08:46] They're just not doing that.

[00:08:49] And there's a lot of stuff to like in this episode.

[00:08:51] I, I love the stuff with, um, Juliet and Solo.

[00:08:55] I love the stuff with, um, Bernard and Judge Meadows.

[00:09:00] I also love the stuff with, um, Billings and Down Deep Deputy Hank.

[00:09:05] Like, Down Deep Deputy Hank, you kind of see him as just this dog's body going around

[00:09:11] doing whatever judicial says.

[00:09:13] But I think actually this episode showed him being a serious police, you know, showed him

[00:09:18] being a serious police officer, showed him as being quite a, um, you know, quite a dedicated

[00:09:23] cop, which I thought was an interesting thing to do is Hank's character gave him, fleshed

[00:09:30] him out a bit.

[00:09:31] Yeah.

[00:09:31] Well, I've always thought I'm, I'm team Hank.

[00:09:34] I honestly think he deserves to be on the Juliet end of the scale even more than her.

[00:09:39] But, but yeah, I think that he has shown that he is, he's trying to do his job, but also

[00:09:46] in a way that's reasonable, you know, like he's like, I want to keep order in the down deep,

[00:09:52] but I'm not going to go reporting people for saying they want to go outside when I understand

[00:09:56] where this is coming from, you know?

[00:09:58] Yeah.

[00:09:59] And I also, I love, I love the line.

[00:10:01] They gave me that judicial look, you know, that judicial look.

[00:10:05] Yeah.

[00:10:06] Yeah.

[00:10:07] And, and yeah.

[00:10:09] Um, with, I was with Holston Jr.

[00:10:13] Billings, remember?

[00:10:14] Yeah.

[00:10:15] Because Billings was called both Holston Jr. and judicial face by Patrick Kennedy last

[00:10:19] season.

[00:10:20] Yeah.

[00:10:21] And Billings is like, oh, I know that well.

[00:10:24] I know that look.

[00:10:25] Yeah.

[00:10:25] Yeah.

[00:10:25] So speaking of Patrick, Patrick lives?

[00:10:29] We possibly Patrick lives question mark.

[00:10:32] I mean, okay.

[00:10:33] So I should have gone with my first instincts because I, I don't even know if I said it in

[00:10:38] the recording yet.

[00:10:39] Cause I've not edited it yet, but, um, he was shot in the shoulder.

[00:10:43] Yeah.

[00:10:43] You mean, you mean for our, you mean for our episode three episode, you did, you did say

[00:10:48] it.

[00:10:48] Yeah.

[00:10:49] That he was shot in the shoulder and I had doubts.

[00:10:50] Yeah.

[00:10:51] But then, you know, it was just, Hank was convinced that he was dead.

[00:10:54] So I was like, oh, well, I guess, you know, Hank must've inspected the body, but now we

[00:10:58] find out maybe not.

[00:11:00] He was just like, oh, I assumed he was dead.

[00:11:04] Um, so yeah.

[00:11:06] Interesting.

[00:11:07] So where and when do you think Patrick will turn up next?

[00:11:12] I'm not sure.

[00:11:13] You see, I'm not convinced he is alive.

[00:11:15] I'm going to need to see him on screen before I think he is alive.

[00:11:19] Okay.

[00:11:20] Cause I, I think, I think it's just as likely that judicial recovered the body to dispose

[00:11:25] of it.

[00:11:25] So.

[00:11:26] And then they took Cooper's body too.

[00:11:28] I don't understand why they took Cooper's body.

[00:11:30] I don't know what they could want that for.

[00:11:32] No, I don't understand why they took Coop's body.

[00:11:35] Yeah.

[00:11:36] All right.

[00:11:36] I guess we'll find out.

[00:11:37] We'll find out.

[00:11:37] We'll put a pin in that.

[00:11:38] I do think I know where Danny is though.

[00:11:43] Oh, go on.

[00:11:44] I feel like Danny.

[00:11:46] So yeah, obviously last episode, Bernard was glad to hear that they still had Patrick

[00:11:52] and Danny.

[00:11:54] Um, and that they hadn't been given the forgetting drug yet.

[00:11:58] And, um, so we see, we saw Sims go to Patrick, but I have a feeling at that same time, Bernard

[00:12:04] went to Danny and said, listen, you have to fix this disc for me from this.

[00:12:11] You have to see what data you can recover from this disc, from the smashed hard drive, because

[00:12:15] now Bernard desperately wants to know what's on the hard drive.

[00:12:19] Yeah.

[00:12:20] Yeah, he does.

[00:12:22] So that's where I think Danny is.

[00:12:23] I think we'll see him trying to recover because he was the better hacker between him and Patrick

[00:12:28] for sure.

[00:12:29] And like on a scale of one to 10, how pleased were you when Lucas, how hard did you squee

[00:12:34] when Lucas?

[00:12:36] Yeah.

[00:12:37] Yeah.

[00:12:37] So when people watch us live, they'll have seen a previously on, and I assume he'll pop

[00:12:41] up there and people will be excited for me.

[00:12:43] Yeah.

[00:12:44] Um, but yeah, we finally have visual confirmation of Lucas.

[00:12:48] Not only his name is set, like when they, when they first said like, Oh, and judge Meadows

[00:12:52] has a meeting with him.

[00:12:53] I'm like, yes.

[00:12:55] And we actually see him.

[00:12:56] Yeah.

[00:12:57] Um, so panicked book readers can stop worrying that he's dead for some reason.

[00:13:02] This was the latest theories in the, in the book chat around the time we're recording was

[00:13:07] that he might be dead, um, in the mind somewhere.

[00:13:10] Like you can't just kill him off.

[00:13:13] He hasn't had his story yet.

[00:13:16] Anyway.

[00:13:17] So after this episode, where are Sims and Nard on the Sims Nard scale for you?

[00:13:24] Right?

[00:13:24] Yeah.

[00:13:24] You see, this is the thing.

[00:13:25] I think we're going to have to call it the, uh, the Juliet to, uh, to Bernard scale.

[00:13:29] Cause I think there is now a different day differentiation between Sims and Bernard.

[00:13:34] Cause like Bernard is right off the end of the scale.

[00:13:37] Like he can't even see the end of the scale.

[00:13:39] The scale is a dot to him.

[00:13:41] Yeah.

[00:13:42] Yeah.

[00:13:43] I mean, that was, that was, that was properly evil.

[00:13:45] That was sociopathic.

[00:13:47] I mean, I'm, I'm not going to lie.

[00:13:49] Like I was getting really into Mary Meadows character.

[00:13:53] Um, I'm sad to see her go.

[00:13:55] And clearly, clearly she was the love of Bernard's life.

[00:13:59] I think so.

[00:14:00] Yeah.

[00:14:00] And, and he, and he of hers as well.

[00:14:04] Yeah.

[00:14:04] I mean, that was some proper silo level tragedy.

[00:14:08] Yeah.

[00:14:09] It was.

[00:14:11] So yeah, we're going to get into that of course, but, um, let me ask, uh, I keep checking

[00:14:16] in on where solo for you now on the Juliet to Bernard scale.

[00:14:20] Yeah.

[00:14:21] We see.

[00:14:22] You're even more evil than Sims now, Bernard.

[00:14:25] You're, you're right off on your own.

[00:14:27] Um, solo.

[00:14:28] I'd say if Juliet as a one and Bernard is a 10, I would say that solo is a three right

[00:14:34] now.

[00:14:34] Okay.

[00:14:35] Cause, cause he's been helpful.

[00:14:37] He's going through some stuff, you know, he's been on his own for a long time.

[00:14:43] We're not sure quite how long, but a period of decades.

[00:14:48] Mm hmm.

[00:14:49] Yeah.

[00:14:50] Well, we're going to talk through this episode one arc at a time.

[00:14:54] And we're, we are going to first start with Juliet and solo in silo 17, and then we'll

[00:14:59] switch over to everything going on in silo 18.

[00:15:01] So we're going to be talking about events in a somewhat different order than the TV episode,

[00:15:05] but it is time for your regularly scheduled breakdown.

[00:15:10] We'll begin in three, two, one.

[00:15:15] So that was a beautiful opening, right?

[00:15:17] With solo talking about his imaginary circus.

[00:15:20] Yeah.

[00:15:21] You know who solo reminded me of throughout this entire episode.

[00:15:24] I have a five, I have a five year old nephew.

[00:15:26] Mm hmm.

[00:15:27] Um, called Archie.

[00:15:29] And he really, he really reminded me of Archie.

[00:15:32] And like Steve Zahn does this really unusual performance of a guy that's kind of childlike,

[00:15:41] but also a little bit sinister, but also really knows what's going on.

[00:15:46] Like it's solo that comes up with the idea of the harmonium.

[00:15:50] Mm hmm.

[00:15:51] And it's this really, I'm saying odd, but I don't mean bad.

[00:15:55] I just mean unusual performance.

[00:15:59] Eccentric.

[00:16:00] Yeah.

[00:16:00] That Steve Zahn is giving and he absolutely sells it.

[00:16:04] Yeah.

[00:16:04] No, I have to say, I think he's nailing the character from the books pretty well,

[00:16:08] but this was like, as soon as I heard the casting, I'm like, yes.

[00:16:12] Yeah, that makes sense.

[00:16:13] Yes.

[00:16:15] So as Juliet, Rebecca Ferguson and solo Steve Zahn explore the abandoned silo 17,

[00:16:21] her searching for the materials she needs to create a suit to walk outside to her silo

[00:16:26] and or an air pump to allow her to dive into the flooded level 23 to get more material she needs.

[00:16:33] Solo regales her with stories about the world before, especially his favorites circuses

[00:16:38] with trapeze artists and elephants.

[00:16:41] I mean, I guess an elephant does sound scary if you don't know what they are.

[00:16:45] Yeah.

[00:16:46] I mean, under the wrong circumstances, a elephants can be scary.

[00:16:50] Oh, sure.

[00:16:51] Yeah.

[00:16:51] You don't want to mess with them, but yeah.

[00:16:53] Like, and also like the idea of they have teeth that are outside of that's kind of right, but

[00:16:59] not.

[00:16:59] And long noses.

[00:17:01] Yeah.

[00:17:02] Yeah.

[00:17:03] But yeah, it's interesting to note that solo likes elephants.

[00:17:07] He says, because they are smart and altruistic.

[00:17:10] So these are apparently the qualities that he values.

[00:17:13] Yeah.

[00:17:13] So it seems no wonder he's taken to Juliet.

[00:17:16] Yeah.

[00:17:17] Um, how do you think solo knows about birds and circuses and elephants and I'm assuming

[00:17:22] there's other, I'm assuming like most, if not all of the relics in silo 17, he are like

[00:17:31] stored in that vault were basically given to him when he was locked in there to try and

[00:17:38] keep him occupied and trying to stop him from like completely unspooling.

[00:17:45] Okay.

[00:17:45] Okay.

[00:17:46] Okay.

[00:17:47] Um, he also said, Oh yeah, no.

[00:17:49] So he starts to explain an ocean to Juliet and she's like, I know what an ocean is.

[00:17:54] I've seen it in a book.

[00:17:56] And this was a really telling exchange.

[00:17:58] He's like, they let you read books in 18.

[00:18:00] She's like, uh, no.

[00:18:01] He's like, Oh, oh man.

[00:18:03] Well, anyway, but yeah.

[00:18:08] So yeah.

[00:18:08] They are not allowed to read.

[00:18:10] He knows they're not allowed to read in his silo, but obviously he has.

[00:18:14] Um, do you think solo knows what a pest dispenser is?

[00:18:20] Interesting question.

[00:18:21] If Bernard knows them.

[00:18:23] If Bernard.

[00:18:23] Yeah.

[00:18:25] Maybe, maybe, maybe he has one in that room.

[00:18:29] Possibly.

[00:18:30] Yeah.

[00:18:30] Maybe they came as a set.

[00:18:32] Yeah.

[00:18:32] There's a magic set.

[00:18:34] Yeah.

[00:18:34] Of 50.

[00:18:35] Yeah.

[00:18:36] One for each silo.

[00:18:38] Um, so yeah, Juliet throughout this, she's treating him like an annoying kid brother,

[00:18:43] uh, not really taking him seriously.

[00:18:46] Um, it is interesting.

[00:18:48] A difference from the book.

[00:18:49] I just want to point out is that solo, it seems like the TV solo was more isolated

[00:18:54] before Juliet came.

[00:18:56] Whereas in the book solo, he was out a bit more, uh, before Juliet came.

[00:19:02] So he was doing his own, he called them projects, you know, and that was kind of like a,

[00:19:06] a way to, you know, give him a purpose to get, keep him sane.

[00:19:10] Do something.

[00:19:10] Oh, so he was kind of wandering around silo 17 a little bit.

[00:19:14] Yeah.

[00:19:14] Yeah.

[00:19:15] He was.

[00:19:15] So he knew where some things were not just because I don't know.

[00:19:19] It seems like the solo just has that memorized.

[00:19:21] So when, when Juliet shows up and she's like, Oh, I need help with doing similar stuff to

[00:19:26] what we see her doing in the show.

[00:19:28] He's like, Oh, project.

[00:19:29] Okay.

[00:19:29] Project.

[00:19:30] Um, but of course it's also about companionship in both cases.

[00:19:35] So Juliet's project right now is she needs a way to push air through 50 feet of tubing.

[00:19:41] So she can breathe underwater.

[00:19:42] And so I was like trying to tell her things like he's like, Oh, Hey, they used to breathe

[00:19:47] through machines in the before times.

[00:19:49] And if she had been paying attention, she might have wanted to ask, like, how do you know

[00:19:54] this?

[00:19:54] What else do you know?

[00:19:56] Where is this information?

[00:19:58] Yeah.

[00:19:58] I'm going to say, I'm going to say either Graham Yost or Hugh Howey or one of the writers,

[00:20:03] they have a real, um, soft spot for like early 20th century literature.

[00:20:08] Cause we've had, we've had the wizard of Oz.

[00:20:10] We've had 20,000 league under the sea.

[00:20:13] Yeah.

[00:20:14] Yeah.

[00:20:14] Yeah.

[00:20:14] No, that's a, that's a show addition.

[00:20:16] These, uh, specific pieces of media from our world.

[00:20:19] Okay.

[00:20:20] Other than Romeo and Juliet, of course, because that's where she got her name.

[00:20:23] Yeah.

[00:20:23] Yeah.

[00:20:24] But yeah, yeah.

[00:20:25] So he mentions 20,000 leagues under the sea by Jules Verne.

[00:20:28] So yeah, more classic lit indeed.

[00:20:30] And, um, and he says that Juliet is like Captain Nemo, which for anyone who doesn't

[00:20:36] know the story, Captain Nemo is, he's a mysterious scientific visionary speaks many languages.

[00:20:43] He's an explorer of the sea floor, of course.

[00:20:46] Um, so somewhere no one else has gone before.

[00:20:49] He's very loyal.

[00:20:50] You know, these are all these positive qualities, but he also has a hunger for vengeance and hates

[00:20:55] imperialism.

[00:20:57] So all in all, this is a compliment, but it also tells us that solo is observing Julia

[00:21:04] pretty well and might be like, you know, I'm better observer of humans than we would

[00:21:10] initially suspect.

[00:21:11] But Juliet totally too consumed in her project to actually even listen to him.

[00:21:17] Yeah.

[00:21:18] And it's like, um, you can tell solo isn't used to having a conversation cause he's not

[00:21:23] quite sure how to, to like pitch, pay attention to me.

[00:21:28] I'm trying to tell you something.

[00:21:30] Right.

[00:21:31] Yeah.

[00:21:31] If he got to the point faster than he might've got her attention.

[00:21:34] Yeah.

[00:21:35] But he's like, no, well wait, there's this instrument.

[00:21:37] She's like, okay, great.

[00:21:40] Um, but yeah, so solo, he suggests the harmonium at this point, but again, she just like not

[00:21:47] interested in listening to him and considering that he might be smarter than she's, than

[00:21:52] she thinks he is at this point.

[00:21:54] Um, and, and I, I do have to sympathize with her a little bit that of course we as viewers,

[00:21:59] we're like, oh, he clearly knows things.

[00:22:01] He's talking about things in our real world that are actually true, but she doesn't know

[00:22:06] that to her, all the things he's saying about elephants and scuba suits and submarines and

[00:22:12] all that, that sounds like nonsense.

[00:22:14] I'm sure like made up crap.

[00:22:16] Well, does it because like Juliet has seen the Georgia, um, tourist book.

[00:22:23] I mean, obviously not everything solo's referring to is in there, but she is aware that some of

[00:22:28] the stuff he's saying, you know, cause she talks to her, tells her about oceans, for

[00:22:32] example.

[00:22:33] Mm.

[00:22:34] So I think, I think she's just too distracted to pick up on the fact that he does know what

[00:22:41] he's talking about.

[00:22:42] Yeah.

[00:22:42] Yeah.

[00:22:43] That's true.

[00:22:43] The oceans part should tip her off.

[00:22:45] She was, I mean, Juliet was being, she's not a perfect person, which is why I am reluctant

[00:22:50] to put her on one end of the scale, but she is, you know, she means well, but she's so

[00:22:56] caught up in herself and, and, you know, what she's worried about at this moment that she

[00:23:00] doesn't realize that the person she's with actually could help her.

[00:23:05] And I think that's probably, as there's probably a lot of people at home, like nodding,

[00:23:10] like, oh yeah, yeah.

[00:23:11] That's the thing that people do.

[00:23:13] Yeah.

[00:23:15] Yeah, definitely.

[00:23:17] Yeah.

[00:23:18] Yeah.

[00:23:18] This moment she's like, I just need something to write on something.

[00:23:21] You know, she wants something to help her think against the backdrop of solo's incessant

[00:23:25] yapping.

[00:23:26] And she's like, I need a piece of slate or something.

[00:23:28] And he's like, oh, problem solved.

[00:23:30] There's a chalkboard in that same room as the harmonium.

[00:23:33] I keep talking about.

[00:23:34] And she's like, okay, great.

[00:23:35] Let's go to that room then.

[00:23:37] So solo solo leads her to a classroom where indeed there's a chalkboard and Juliet erases

[00:23:42] the lists of numbers written on it and begins drawing her own designs while solo looks around

[00:23:47] the classroom with a nostalgic look on his face.

[00:23:50] It's a time capsule from the day Timmy's dad led everyone outside that we saw at the beginning

[00:23:56] of episode one.

[00:23:58] Um, this was one week before their local holiday founders day and the classroom decorations are

[00:24:06] set up for that.

[00:24:07] We also see, um, colorful backpacks hanging from the wall and there's a blue backpack holding a blue

[00:24:14] sweater that reminds solo of someone named lapis who used to sit next to him in class.

[00:24:19] And he remembers specific things about her that she made him laugh.

[00:24:23] Her mom jarred peach preserves.

[00:24:25] Her name meant blue, but Juliet points out that they're in a level B classroom.

[00:24:30] So for 11 or 12 year olds.

[00:24:32] So this clearly couldn't have been the lapis who sat next to solo.

[00:24:36] If the owner of this backpack was that age at the time of the rebellion and solo clarifies,

[00:24:40] he said it just reminded him of lapis.

[00:24:43] And then Juliet asks him about his eye as one is lighter in color than the other.

[00:24:47] And he says he doesn't like to talk about it.

[00:24:50] So, okay.

[00:24:51] As a book reader, I have no idea what the eye thing is about, but I'm glad to hear there's

[00:24:55] a reason for this header header, header, hetero chromia change that they added to the

[00:25:00] character.

[00:25:00] I'm curious to find out what it is, but, um, Luke, what do you make of the stuff that's

[00:25:06] solo saying in this scene?

[00:25:07] Well, okay.

[00:25:08] I had a, I had an idea about the numbers on the chalkboard.

[00:25:11] Hmm.

[00:25:12] Were that, were they the attempts of the two guys whose bodies we see outside the vault

[00:25:19] to try and figure out the passcode for, cause solo says later in the episode, you can only

[00:25:25] tap three times or you get locked out.

[00:25:28] So I wonder whether these were the guys from the, whose corpses we see trying to work out

[00:25:35] what that code was.

[00:25:36] Cause if you look all the number, all the string of numbers, they all seem to be six digit

[00:25:41] sequences.

[00:25:43] That was my thinking.

[00:25:44] Exactly.

[00:25:45] Yeah.

[00:25:45] Yeah.

[00:25:46] And then solo says erase them.

[00:25:49] I don't think anyone will mind.

[00:25:50] And he's thinking like, first of all, if that's the case, then it's like, okay, nobody's

[00:25:55] going to mind because presumably it's implied that he killed those people.

[00:26:00] And also I imagine, you know, he's like, let's get rid of this evidence of someone trying

[00:26:05] to work out my code and all the things they eliminated.

[00:26:09] Yeah.

[00:26:10] So I'm not sure.

[00:26:11] Solo says he has no idea what it is.

[00:26:13] I'm not sure.

[00:26:13] I believe him that he has no idea what it is.

[00:26:15] I think he does.

[00:26:16] No, I thought, I thought Juliet questioning solo about his age was, was interesting.

[00:26:22] Cause yeah, obviously he wouldn't have been in, he wouldn't have been in the school.

[00:26:27] Um, when, um, when people went outside, but he seemed like uncomfortable, like answering

[00:26:35] the question, maybe that's just solo being a solo, but it seemed like, yeah, he wasn't

[00:26:41] telling the entire truth there somehow.

[00:26:44] Yeah.

[00:26:45] Well, he, so he told her just to remind people in episode three, last episode that, um, he

[00:26:53] was the shadow of the head of it and that's why he was in that bunker.

[00:26:58] Um, so if that's the case, then that implies that he was not 11 or 12 years old.

[00:27:05] But I do, I want to point out that he, he has some, like, he acts very childlike, as you

[00:27:12] say, and he, he says some cute things.

[00:27:13] Like he says during this, when he's talking about lapis, he's like, she said that her

[00:27:17] name and blue or something, but I think that she only said that because it was her

[00:27:20] favorite color.

[00:27:22] And she liked my blue eyes just the way he pronounced forever, which was not in the

[00:27:28] subtitles.

[00:27:29] Uh, Apple do better.

[00:27:34] Um, it's interesting though, the different silos have different holidays.

[00:27:39] We've founders day versus freedom day.

[00:27:41] Um, and we also see like, did you notice differences in the production design between silos 18 and

[00:27:47] 17?

[00:27:48] Yeah.

[00:27:48] They're subtle, but they are there.

[00:27:50] Yeah.

[00:27:51] Like, what do you see?

[00:27:52] Um, just like, yeah, that, that, the color, I mean, it's kind of difficult to tell because

[00:27:58] the lighting is really low, but the color palette, color palette seems different.

[00:28:03] Um, like the silo seems again, this could just be a trick of the light, but the silo seems

[00:28:09] marginally narrower.

[00:28:12] Oh, um, I mean, yeah, for me, I think, I think that the silo itself looks the same to

[00:28:19] me, but then the way they decorate their apartments or those backpacks we saw in the

[00:28:24] classroom, things like that.

[00:28:25] It looks like to me a bit more colorfully kitschy, which we saw like Gloria was a bit

[00:28:30] like that, but this is like Gloria everywhere all over silo 17.

[00:28:35] We haven't seen the school in silo 18.

[00:28:39] No, but like, just like the apartment where Juliet's staying.

[00:28:43] It's very retro kitschy.

[00:28:45] Yeah, that's true.

[00:28:46] Actually it is.

[00:28:47] Yeah.

[00:28:48] Um, and yeah, I mean, it just seems like there's more colorful, um, more busy decorations around

[00:28:58] bit, bit more, bit more seventies.

[00:29:01] Hmm.

[00:29:02] Yeah.

[00:29:02] Yeah.

[00:29:03] Bit more seventies retro going on in silo 17.

[00:29:05] Amazing.

[00:29:06] So just to shout out again, the production designer, his name's Gavin.

[00:29:10] I never understood.

[00:29:11] Is it Boquette or Bokeh?

[00:29:13] But anyway, uh, his background is an especially star Wars or Lucasfilm stuff, but, uh, yeah,

[00:29:19] doing a great job on the show.

[00:29:20] We talked a lot about more about it last season.

[00:29:22] Um, so in the classroom, solo spots, the harmonium, the reason he wanted to bring Juliet to this

[00:29:29] classroom in the first place, he plays it, uh, seeming, it seems like another boyish impulse

[00:29:34] to Juliet's though.

[00:29:36] He actually can play.

[00:29:37] Um, um, everything he does though is currently annoying Juliet.

[00:29:41] And this is no exception until he forces Juliet to come look at the instrument, showing her the

[00:29:47] reason he brought her to see it.

[00:29:49] It's operated with a bellows and one that seems to produce enough force to pump air through 50 feet of tubing.

[00:29:57] So Juliet tells solo, she will have to dismantle the instrument to use it.

[00:30:02] And she's not sure whether or not she'll be able to put it back together.

[00:30:05] So solo plays one last time.

[00:30:08] So this is my question.

[00:30:09] Do you ever like, if the rebellion happened at least 25 years ago, because, uh, Bernard told

[00:30:16] Meadows that it happened before she was his shadow.

[00:30:20] So he would have been, he says he was in that, that bunker for 25 years.

[00:30:24] Like he didn't seem 25 years rusty in the harmonium.

[00:30:28] Do you think it's possible he ever snuck up here to play it?

[00:30:32] Maybe, maybe.

[00:30:34] I mean, if, if he left the bunker on occasion, it would answer like a load of questions.

[00:30:38] Like, where is he getting this constant supply of chicken stew from?

[00:30:42] Um, you know, where is he, where is he, where is he sleep?

[00:30:47] You know, when, you know, has he bought, has he bought a bed back to the bunker?

[00:30:52] Stuff like that.

[00:30:54] So yeah, I think I, I, the, the, the room is simply not large enough to control.

[00:31:00] He would contain everything he would need.

[00:31:02] So I think just for the, for the purposes of staying alive, you would have had to have

[00:31:07] left that bunker periodically.

[00:31:10] Yeah.

[00:31:11] But do you think Juliet's going to take solo more seriously now?

[00:31:14] She should.

[00:31:16] I'm not sure that she will, but she should.

[00:31:18] Yeah.

[00:31:19] Yeah.

[00:31:20] I kind of felt like he was the one being patient this episode.

[00:31:23] Like he's trying to solve her problems for her and she just like won't fucking listen.

[00:31:27] Yeah.

[00:31:29] She's acting like he's annoying.

[00:31:30] Like, Oh, I was so frustrated on his behalf.

[00:31:34] Yeah.

[00:31:36] So Juliet makes her air pump with solo's help, but he's starting to get that feeling like

[00:31:41] he didn't lock his vault though.

[00:31:42] Juliet promises she saw him do it.

[00:31:44] He wants to go back and check, but Juliet talks him down so he can help her with her

[00:31:48] mini dive to level 23.

[00:31:51] He's just got to keep pumping as long as she's underwater.

[00:31:54] So yeah, this reminded me of like, I definitely have had that feeling before where I leave

[00:31:59] the house and I take a mental snapshot snapshot that I've locked the front door and then I'll

[00:32:04] get halfway to my destination.

[00:32:06] I'll be like, Oh my God, I did it.

[00:32:07] Right.

[00:32:07] And it just, it comes back to trauma because I did have a break in at my house.

[00:32:13] So yeah, it just makes me double worried about it.

[00:32:17] And I can only imagine with solo.

[00:32:18] He has someone writing in the walls.

[00:32:20] We will get in there.

[00:32:21] They have all these codes.

[00:32:23] They've obviously been trying every day.

[00:32:24] Like, Oh my God.

[00:32:25] Yeah.

[00:32:26] So yeah.

[00:32:27] I mean, I think we've all had that.

[00:32:30] So yeah.

[00:32:30] Have you locked the front door?

[00:32:32] The one, my personal variation of that is have I turned the charger for the chair off?

[00:32:38] Mm-hmm.

[00:32:39] Because like the, obviously I plugged the chair in at night, but there's a charger that

[00:32:42] turns it from, I don't know, one kind of electronic electric current to another kind of electric

[00:32:47] current.

[00:32:48] Mm-hmm.

[00:32:49] And I'm always slightly paranoid that I haven't turned it off at the wall because it gets,

[00:32:52] it gets, it gets quite hot.

[00:32:55] Mm-hmm.

[00:32:55] So I like had it drilled into me.

[00:32:57] I don't actually think it is a fire risk.

[00:33:00] I think this is just one of those things your parents tell you.

[00:33:03] Right.

[00:33:04] To get you to turn it off.

[00:33:06] Just in case.

[00:33:07] Yeah.

[00:33:07] Just in case.

[00:33:09] Yeah.

[00:33:09] Yeah.

[00:33:10] No, I'm sure we all can imagine that anxiety and then just, yeah, solo amped up to 11 because

[00:33:17] it's, he was confronted with it daily is presumptively for who is alone.

[00:33:23] Yeah.

[00:33:23] And like for me, at least once I've texted my neighbor to go and come into my house to

[00:33:28] check.

[00:33:29] Cause yeah, I was so certain that I hadn't turned it off.

[00:33:33] Yeah.

[00:33:34] Yeah.

[00:33:34] It can be the oven or, you know, and yeah.

[00:33:39] And here, um, solo calls Juliet captain Nemo again, because of course she's going under

[00:33:46] the water, but of course she doesn't get it.

[00:33:49] So Juliet made a big, she takes a big piece of metal that looks like the base of a pole

[00:33:55] or a column or something.

[00:33:56] And she uses it as an anchor to drag her down one level and, uh, breathing through the tube.

[00:34:02] Solo is pumping air into, she jumps down to the landing below 23.

[00:34:05] Um, but the breathing hose only reaches so far.

[00:34:09] So she takes one final breath and leaves it behind, but the rope on the anchor is also

[00:34:14] restricting her as she tries to climb up to the, to the level 23 landing where there's

[00:34:18] air.

[00:34:19] She's running out of breath.

[00:34:20] So she breaks off a scrap of rusted metal from the landing.

[00:34:24] She's trying to get onto, and she saws the rope tied to her waist off so that she can pull

[00:34:29] herself up onto 23, uh, where it, which is full of trapped air.

[00:34:34] She can breathe.

[00:34:35] And meanwhile, solo is still pumping air through the hose, not realizing she's no longer using

[00:34:40] it.

[00:34:40] And Juliet is punching, kicking and peeling back the doors and lockers to find what she's

[00:34:45] looking for.

[00:34:46] So yeah, Juliet in those lockers that looked so painful.

[00:34:50] I mean,

[00:34:51] Yeah.

[00:34:51] There had to be, there had to be a better way of doing that.

[00:34:53] That looked like it really hurt.

[00:34:56] Yeah.

[00:34:56] Like her elbows and her fists and she's way stronger than I am.

[00:35:00] Yeah.

[00:35:01] Like you can tell them to see Rebecca Ferguson, all muscle and she's all muscle and sinew.

[00:35:07] Yeah.

[00:35:07] It's really quite impressive.

[00:35:08] It's impressive and a little bit depressing to be honest, because I'm the same age as

[00:35:13] Rebecca Ferguson.

[00:35:14] Oh yeah.

[00:35:15] Well, I wouldn't do that.

[00:35:16] Why can't I?

[00:35:17] Yeah.

[00:35:19] Yeah.

[00:35:20] I don't know if I want to be that strong, but that's true.

[00:35:24] Yeah.

[00:35:25] I guess Juliet in her world, you know, that's, she's been working on, um, the, the generator

[00:35:30] for how long?

[00:35:31] Yeah.

[00:35:32] So solo is getting more and more nervous.

[00:35:34] He's worried about leaving his vault unattended.

[00:35:37] So as soon as, uh, Rebecca, sorry.

[00:35:39] As soon as Juliet pops back up from the water, he tells her he has to go and runs back to

[00:35:44] the vault in a panic and out of breath Juliet following.

[00:35:48] And the vault is still locked as Juliet said it would be.

[00:35:51] But solo wants to go back in for a while only in his panic.

[00:35:54] He enters the wrong code twice and Juliet tries to talk him down.

[00:35:58] But now he's panicked that if he answers the wrong code again, he'll be locked out.

[00:36:02] And he starts blaming Juliet for changing the code behind his back or something.

[00:36:06] Luckily third time's the charm.

[00:36:08] And he retreats inside his safe space.

[00:36:10] And Juliet says she thought they were past this.

[00:36:15] So, I mean, I, yeah, so Juliet's frustrated with him, but I, as we said before, I think

[00:36:20] this is like the more realistic reaction, especially if it is his first time out in 25 years.

[00:36:26] It is.

[00:36:27] He's been out a while in one go.

[00:36:28] I love the way that Steve's on, like he's, when he, when he puts the code in for the third

[00:36:34] time, he very briefly like does, closes his eyes and does.

[00:36:38] Yeah.

[00:36:38] Actually goes through the physical motion of these are the keys I push and this is the

[00:36:43] order in which I pushed them.

[00:36:45] Yeah.

[00:36:47] Yeah.

[00:36:47] I'm actually like miming that.

[00:36:48] I realize it's a podcast and you can't see what I'm doing.

[00:36:52] I mean, so if he has not been out of there, uh, of the vault, then he hasn't been entering

[00:37:00] the code because he wouldn't need to.

[00:37:01] And that would make sense to forget it.

[00:37:03] But if he does have the physical memory of it, that kind of implies that maybe he has

[00:37:07] been going out time to time.

[00:37:09] Like I said, I think, I think you would have to, you would just, that, that, that space is

[00:37:15] not large enough to contain everything you would need.

[00:37:17] Well, we don't know what all's in this space.

[00:37:19] It's true.

[00:37:20] And we do know that, uh, we saw when in the other version that, uh, there were, there seemed

[00:37:26] to be drawers, all those things, all those like kind of steps along the walls and stuff.

[00:37:31] Yeah, that's true.

[00:37:31] They had handles in them.

[00:37:32] So they seem to be drawers, but that doesn't solve the sleeping situation or something.

[00:37:37] So I don't know.

[00:37:37] I, yeah, I'm, I'm waiting for a better look.

[00:37:40] Um, but, but like I said, uh, unlike Walker and the whole Meadows quitting alcohol thing,

[00:37:47] we see that solo is not immediately cured the moment he has a breakthrough by leaving

[00:37:52] the bunker.

[00:37:52] So I glad for that.

[00:37:54] Um, and we get that important piece of information that the door locks.

[00:38:00] If you enter the wrong code three times, I'll just say in the book, the door locks for 24

[00:38:06] hours.

[00:38:07] If you enter the wrong code three times.

[00:38:09] So I don't know if it's the same in the show, but.

[00:38:12] Oh, it's like the, it's like that thing.

[00:38:14] It's like, I think if you, if you enter the code on your phone too quickly and you don't

[00:38:17] do it properly, it'll lock you up for like 20 minutes.

[00:38:21] You can try again.

[00:38:22] Yeah.

[00:38:23] 24 hours would be a lot for my phone.

[00:38:25] Yeah, it would.

[00:38:25] It would.

[00:38:27] Yeah.

[00:38:28] Solo did not like the suggestion.

[00:38:30] He should write the code down.

[00:38:32] I think that must come from some fear also related to this whole situation.

[00:38:39] He even blames Juliet saying that she changed the code somehow, even though she was with

[00:38:44] him the whole time.

[00:38:45] But I'm like, Juliet only just learned that keypad locks existed.

[00:38:49] Well, yeah, presumably if you write it down, somebody could find it.

[00:38:53] So, yeah.

[00:38:56] So Juliet tells Solo that while she was sent out to clean, part of her was relieved it

[00:39:01] was over.

[00:39:02] She was so tired.

[00:39:02] And when she got outside, she was scared and lonely.

[00:39:05] She thought every step would be her last, but she just kept walking.

[00:39:09] She understands how Solo feels.

[00:39:11] She says she tries to lull Solo into talking to her again, calling herself Captain Nemo,

[00:39:16] asking about the circus and the things with the long noses.

[00:39:19] And when Solo doesn't respond, she gets up to walk away.

[00:39:22] But Solo doesn't want that.

[00:39:24] So he and he needs her to know that those animals with the long noses are called elephants

[00:39:28] and lions also existed.

[00:39:31] And that's the end of their story.

[00:39:34] I do like the description of lions as just big cats, which I suppose they are, but you

[00:39:40] never really think of lions as big cats.

[00:39:43] I think of my cats as little lions.

[00:39:48] So any more thoughts on the Juliet and Solo side of the story this week?

[00:39:57] I'd like to, I'd like to, for Juliet to make some progress on her suit.

[00:40:03] Like the constant MacGyvering, I'm not saying.

[00:40:07] Like it's not getting wearing at the moment, but like, if it keeps going, if it's like, if

[00:40:13] it becomes like challenge of the week, that's going to get a little bit boring, I think.

[00:40:18] Okay.

[00:40:19] Okay.

[00:40:20] Yeah.

[00:40:21] Yeah.

[00:40:22] I want to know more about, uh, Solo's backstory, but yeah.

[00:40:27] Yeah.

[00:40:28] And I still want to know who those corpses belong to.

[00:40:31] Yeah.

[00:40:32] That's, yeah, that's going to be part of the backstory.

[00:40:34] Okay.

[00:40:35] Well, we're going to take a quick break.

[00:40:36] And when we come back, we're going to check in on the other Solo, see what's going on

[00:40:39] over there.

[00:40:40] See you in a sec.

[00:40:42] We're Teresa and Nemo.

[00:40:44] And that's why we switched to Shopify.

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[00:41:14] Okay.

[00:41:15] So we pick up on, in silo 18 with Knox Shane McRae and Shirley Remy Milner.

[00:41:21] Uh, they're standing in front of the wall of names in the digger room that Knox teased

[00:41:26] us about at the end of last week's episode.

[00:41:28] And he's figured out that the names are not just from a single rebellion, 140 years

[00:41:33] ago, the one they keep talking about, uh, the one they kept talking about last season, but

[00:41:38] the names are actually from a series of rebellions.

[00:41:41] They wrote the triggers for the rebellions down along with those names, with the presumably

[00:41:46] names they were memorializing.

[00:41:48] And it seems that a common thread through these different rebellions was that the blame was

[00:41:53] pinned on mechanical.

[00:41:56] So yeah, this wall of names is a new TV thing.

[00:41:59] Um, I do think other silos might've done similar.

[00:42:04] Yeah.

[00:42:05] And also like, I find it hard to believe that Knox is the first person who's worked this out.

[00:42:10] Like there may not be many people that have gone down there, but Knox, um, Knox was not

[00:42:16] the first.

[00:42:17] I mean, you mean in the last 140 years, because clearly before that they were using this as

[00:42:23] a system.

[00:42:24] Yeah.

[00:42:25] Yeah.

[00:42:25] Yeah.

[00:42:26] But maybe Knox is the only first one, um, to act on it.

[00:42:30] Um, is Knoxie Foxy?

[00:42:32] Because he, he, he does redeem himself a lot in this episode.

[00:42:36] Oh yeah.

[00:42:37] He's, he's, he's getting back into Foxy territory.

[00:42:39] Yeah.

[00:42:40] Well, he's running like a fox at the end, but he really is, but we'll get to that.

[00:42:44] Yeah.

[00:42:45] Um, so, but he says at this point, there's a rebellion every generation.

[00:42:49] Um, and I guess the strategy is always mechanical as a scapegoat.

[00:42:54] I mean, I've harped on this.

[00:42:55] We talked about it.

[00:42:56] I'm not convinced about this as like a strategy for that they get out of the order.

[00:43:02] Like I still don't understand how, um, pinning, pitting everyone against the people who run

[00:43:12] the silos, electricity benefits them.

[00:43:16] And then they crush them.

[00:43:17] And I don't understand.

[00:43:18] Yeah, no, I don't.

[00:43:19] The only way it makes sense to me is what we were discussing last episode.

[00:43:23] If this is some kind of massive psychological experiment done by some outside force, then

[00:43:31] it makes a certain amount of sense.

[00:43:34] But I think that's the only context I can think of where it makes sense.

[00:43:37] Hmm.

[00:43:39] Yeah.

[00:43:39] No, uh, political scientists there in the, in the writing room.

[00:43:44] Hmm.

[00:43:45] It's different in the book.

[00:43:46] I don't just don't like the book, but anyway, sorry.

[00:43:48] I will stop with that.

[00:43:50] Um, because normally I am very, I welcome book changes, you know?

[00:43:57] I write.

[00:43:57] Yeah.

[00:43:58] But it has to make sense.

[00:43:59] Mm hmm.

[00:43:59] It has to fit the overall logic of the story.

[00:44:02] Yeah.

[00:44:02] And they haven't, it's also, you know, they brought up this season where Juliet said the

[00:44:05] reason why they clean the, um, the lenses in this.

[00:44:10] And it's a different reason in the book.

[00:44:12] I've harped upon it in the past.

[00:44:13] I won't harp on it now, but it's like, well, if you're going to change it from the reason

[00:44:17] in the book, at least make it better.

[00:44:18] And I don't think you did, but yeah.

[00:44:20] Yeah.

[00:44:20] For the most part, I love the writing on this show.

[00:44:24] It's just these things.

[00:44:26] Yeah.

[00:44:26] Well, I mean, maybe there, maybe there is a twist that we haven't seen coming that makes

[00:44:31] it all, that makes it all add up.

[00:44:33] Yeah.

[00:44:34] And of course it's a, I have to like a show a certain amount to care about details.

[00:44:38] Yes, exactly.

[00:44:39] Exactly.

[00:44:39] They've created a world where I want the real it to live up to the realism, the psychological

[00:44:45] and political realism that they have painted.

[00:44:48] Yeah.

[00:44:48] Yeah.

[00:44:50] Okay.

[00:44:50] So after the death of Cooper last week, Knox is getting closer to the point where he will

[00:44:55] agree with Shirley to shut down the generator room, shut off the silo, but he wants to try

[00:45:00] one more time to do things the right way to go straight to the people in power and demand

[00:45:04] the truth to their faces.

[00:45:07] He says, he'll set up a meeting with Bernard, Tim, Tim Robbins, who's the acting mayor still,

[00:45:12] um, which he can do as head of mechanical.

[00:45:15] And he says, he'll bring along Shirley.

[00:45:17] He'll bring along Martha, Harriet Walter.

[00:45:19] And also he'll bring along Carla McLean played by Claire Perkins, uh, because she is

[00:45:24] the head of supply and they'll set up a meeting to request the right to use this quote

[00:45:29] unquote miraculous, allegedly new good tape to go outside and explore a little around the

[00:45:35] silo.

[00:45:35] Shirley agrees to this plan, but she thinks they should go to judge Meadows played by Tanya

[00:46:05] and make them see if they will honor the pact.

[00:46:07] If there is a set of rules that we're all supposed to be following, let's try and force them to

[00:46:12] follow it.

[00:46:13] And if they don't, it then reveals who actually has power and who doesn't.

[00:46:20] Um, so I, I thought that was quite cool, but I also, I like the, because like sending

[00:46:26] out explorers is like the logical consequence of what Bernard said in that speech.

[00:46:33] Like somebody was going to make that demand.

[00:46:36] If it wasn't mechanical, you know, it almost follows axiomatically that if you've got this

[00:46:40] good tape, well, why not go outside and have a bit of a look around and see.

[00:46:44] I'm fine.

[00:46:45] Yeah.

[00:46:45] Even if, even if it's only for a couple of minutes.

[00:46:47] So actually it was Bernard's speech that create the, that created that almost in almost

[00:46:54] inevitably.

[00:46:55] And this is where like automatically following the order makes no sense.

[00:47:00] Right.

[00:47:01] Because, but Bernard's speech has already created a situation that the order really does not

[00:47:08] anticipate at all.

[00:47:09] Mm hmm.

[00:47:10] Like you can't just mechanically follow what's in this book.

[00:47:14] Mm hmm.

[00:47:15] Because there are just too many contingencies.

[00:47:18] Mary Meadows understands that, but Bernard does not.

[00:47:21] Yes.

[00:47:22] Yeah.

[00:47:23] I like, I mean, like, I think, I just think it's very interesting and thought provoking what

[00:47:29] Shirley says, you know, Knox is like, we will, we won't be armed.

[00:47:33] We'll be peaceful.

[00:47:34] And Shirley says, still, every step we take will be considered an act of aggression.

[00:47:40] And we see that's true throughout just because they've been painted as the bad guys, as the scapegoats,

[00:47:47] mechanical people are going to everything that they do.

[00:47:52] They're going to interpret it as sinister.

[00:47:55] Yeah.

[00:47:55] And that's the thing.

[00:47:56] They don't, you know, they don't come up to the mids.

[00:47:58] They don't come up to the up top with very rare exceptions.

[00:48:02] There.

[00:48:03] Yeah.

[00:48:04] Like, yeah.

[00:48:04] The only people that seem to like move from one end of the silo to the other, and even

[00:48:10] they don't do often are sheriffs and judicial and like the mayor, mayor Johns in season

[00:48:16] one was doing like the silo equivalent of a Royal progress through the silo.

[00:48:21] And that was, that was a big event.

[00:48:23] So people don't as a rule, you know, move more than a few levels in either direction.

[00:48:29] Right.

[00:48:30] Right.

[00:48:30] Exactly.

[00:48:31] Yeah.

[00:48:32] No elevators.

[00:48:34] Illegal in the fact.

[00:48:36] Um, so one other thing I just want to point out is that we got, I don't, I think

[00:48:40] this might be the first time we officially get Carla's last name, but it is McLean.

[00:48:45] He says here, and, um, I thought, yeah, Carla might be McLean.

[00:48:50] Who is a character who becomes an important character in the second half of wool, which

[00:48:54] is the part of the book that is, you know, um, that is analogous with this season of television.

[00:49:01] So it's just, you know, McLean is the head of supply in the book.

[00:49:04] It makes sense.

[00:49:06] Yes.

[00:49:06] Carla is officially McLean, the head of supply in the, uh, like in the book.

[00:49:11] Um, and so in the book though, Walker, well, first of all, Walker doesn't just suddenly

[00:49:17] start like running all over the silo as soon as he walks out the door the first time.

[00:49:22] Sorry.

[00:49:23] We are, we don't mean to harp on this, but it's just, it's just, but one thing I do like

[00:49:29] that they, that they added this past romantic relationship between Walker and McLean.

[00:49:34] This is not in the book.

[00:49:36] Those two characters did not have a past romantic relationship that's talked about at least.

[00:49:41] Um, so the two actors sell it really well.

[00:49:44] Yeah.

[00:49:45] They really do sell it really well.

[00:49:48] So, but as my one book excerpt for this episode, I wanted to, um, just read about the first

[00:49:54] time Knox meets or McLean.

[00:49:58] Well, it's not the first time they've ever met, but it's when they are, uh, going up the

[00:50:02] silo for, uh, not the same reasons, but I similar enough reasons to what we see in this

[00:50:07] episode.

[00:50:08] And yeah, Walker's not with them because Walker doesn't just walk up the silo, but so Knox

[00:50:12] goes up to supply, which is on one 20, which is, so it's like 20 or so levels above, uh,

[00:50:17] where mechanical and all that.

[00:50:20] And I'm sorry, it's on one 10.

[00:50:23] They were greeted on the landing of one 10 by frowns.

[00:50:27] McLean, the elder woman and head of supply stood with her arms crossed over her yellow

[00:50:31] coveralls, her affect screaming unwelcome.

[00:50:35] What's this nonsense you're after?

[00:50:37] Knox glanced up and down the stairwell, shrugged his heavy load higher up his shoulder.

[00:50:42] Mind if we step in and talk about it?

[00:50:44] I don't want any trouble here.

[00:50:46] She said, her eyes blazing beneath her lowered brow.

[00:50:49] Let's go inside.

[00:50:50] Knox said, we haven't stopped once on the way up unless you want us collapsing out here.

[00:50:55] McLean seemed to consider this.

[00:50:57] Her arms loosened across her chest.

[00:50:59] She turned to three of her workers who formed an imposing wall behind her and nodded while

[00:51:05] they pulled open the gleaming doors of supply.

[00:51:07] She turned and grabbed Knox's arm.

[00:51:09] Don't get comfortable, she told him.

[00:51:11] Inside the front room of supply, Knox found a small army of men and women in their yellow

[00:51:16] coveralls waiting.

[00:51:17] Most of them stood behind the low, long counter where the people of the silo normally waited

[00:51:23] for whatever parts they needed, whether newly fabricated or recently repaired.

[00:51:27] The parallel and deep aisles of shelves beyond ran into the gloomy distance, boxes and bins bulging off of them.

[00:51:35] The room was noticeably quiet.

[00:51:37] Usually, the mechanical thrumming and clanking sounds of fabrication could be heard warming their way through the space,

[00:51:43] or one might hear workers chatting unseen back in the stacks while they sorted newly fashioned bolts and nuts into hungry bins.

[00:51:50] Now it was just silence and distrustful glares.

[00:51:53] Knox stood with his people, their sacks and loads slumping exhaustively to the floor, sweat on their brows while the men and women of supply watched, unmoving.

[00:52:01] He had expected a more amicable welcome.

[00:52:04] The mechanical and supply had a long history together.

[00:52:07] They jointly ran the small mine beneath the lowest levels of mechanical that supplemented the silo stockpile of oars.

[00:52:13] But now, as McLean followed her boys back inside, she graced Knox with a look of scorn he hadn't seen since his mother passed away.

[00:52:22] What in the hell is the meaning of this?

[00:52:24] She hissed at Knox.

[00:52:25] He was taken aback by the language, especially in front of his people.

[00:52:29] He thought of himself and McLean as equals, but now he was being snapped at as if by one of supply's dogs.

[00:52:36] So yeah, we haven't actually seen inside supply on the show or met anyone else from it.

[00:52:42] So I wonder with them now expressly saying Carla's title, if that's about to change.

[00:52:50] Yeah, maybe.

[00:52:51] And I wonder if, I wonder if like in the show, supply's sort of been split in half.

[00:52:57] I wonder whether the guy in the wheelchair, whether his, because that sounds like kind of what was going on in the background of that scene as well, where they're fabricating stuff out of metal.

[00:53:07] Yeah.

[00:53:07] Yeah, maybe.

[00:53:09] Yeah, because they don't say, they don't describe like they have like a metal workshop in here, but they are fabricating something.

[00:53:16] Yeah.

[00:53:17] Yeah.

[00:53:19] Yeah.

[00:53:20] Supply plays a huge role in the book.

[00:53:22] So I'm, I hope we see more of them, but it is interesting also that so in this, we, they are talking about how supply wears yellow coveralls.

[00:53:31] Um, they expressly say in this episode that miners wear yellow, yellow coveralls.

[00:53:36] So that's a change.

[00:53:37] Yep.

[00:53:38] And also the minds in the show sound like they're a much bigger operation than the books because I, you know, I was even wondering it with the show later Meadows says to Lucas, like we need this metal.

[00:53:50] Um, so that's why we need miners to get this metal.

[00:53:53] But I'm like, aren't you metals?

[00:53:55] Like the most easy thing to recycle.

[00:53:57] Like, why do you keep needing new metal?

[00:54:01] Well, I mean, I suppose over time you are going to need stuff because there's going to be, you're right.

[00:54:06] It is the easiest thing to recycle, but there is going to be an amount of it that you can't recycle.

[00:54:12] Sure.

[00:54:12] I guess like particularly over like hundreds of years, might have existed.

[00:54:17] Yeah.

[00:54:18] Well, we know at least 140, right?

[00:54:19] Cause that's what it was.

[00:54:20] Yeah.

[00:54:21] And it seems like there's, but was more rebellions before that.

[00:54:24] Yeah.

[00:54:25] I don't know.

[00:54:25] It just seems like they're making, they're definitely making the minds a bigger thing on the show and this whole idea of them being a punishment.

[00:54:31] So I guess that's, but I, that did strike me later when she's like, we need this metal.

[00:54:36] I'm like, you have so much metal, just melt the metal down and make new things with it again.

[00:54:40] Like this is the thing.

[00:54:41] This is the thing.

[00:54:42] If and when we do see the Marines, if they are anything less than hellacious, if they are

[00:54:47] anything less than like the grimmest possible gulag that you can think of, it's going to

[00:54:54] say, Oh, well that's not so bad.

[00:54:56] Cause they made, they made such a huge thing of the mind.

[00:55:00] To have them singing a sad song and say, uh, work in unison.

[00:55:05] Yeah.

[00:55:06] Yeah.

[00:55:07] Well, we did want the barbershop quartet and it seems like the three players are still alive and I'm still hoping we get this character called Rafe from the books, but he's one of those characters.

[00:55:18] It's small enough.

[00:55:18] There's a good chance.

[00:55:19] We won't get him.

[00:55:21] Okay.

[00:55:22] Okay.

[00:55:23] So Sims common.

[00:55:24] He accosts Bernard in the halls of it with a barrage of questions.

[00:55:28] Is it true?

[00:55:29] A gang from mechanical is going to meet with judge metals.

[00:55:33] Sims wants to use his Raiders to stop them, but Bernard says they have to let them air their grievances.

[00:55:38] Maybe it will bring down the temperature.

[00:55:41] Rob is worried.

[00:55:42] They might try for the airlock, which Bernard scoffs at calling Martha and Carla quote unquote old ladies.

[00:55:48] But Sims, uh, but tell Sims he can station Raiders above judicial.

[00:55:52] That makes him feel better.

[00:55:55] Bernard doesn't want to be seen as the oppressor.

[00:55:59] I mean, I think, do you think that's, that's Meadows?

[00:56:02] Um, yeah, I think that's, I think that's, I think that's, that's Bernard actually listening to Meadows.

[00:56:08] Yeah.

[00:56:09] Um, for a change on the temperature.

[00:56:10] Yeah.

[00:56:11] But by the way, I, I, I am, I'm, I, you know, it hasn't happened yet, but I think my prediction that I'm going to be a good idea.

[00:56:17] I think that's what I made in the Comic-Con episode, the preview episode that we did, that one of Sims and Bernard was going to kill the other.

[00:56:25] Hmm.

[00:56:25] I'm feeling, I'm feeling more confident about that prediction after this episode.

[00:56:30] There is, there is a lot, there's a lot of tension there.

[00:56:32] Yeah.

[00:56:33] They're definitely not getting closer.

[00:56:35] Yeah.

[00:56:35] And like, we'll, we'll, we'll get to it in a bit, but Sims is actively trying to work to undermine Bernard now.

[00:56:42] Right.

[00:56:43] Well, at the very least he's got his own agenda.

[00:56:46] Right.

[00:56:47] I mean, well, first of all, Sims is, he obviously has a jealousy of Meadows.

[00:56:53] That's what a lot of this is about.

[00:56:55] Um, but also he's like just more reactionary, which is why he will never be Bernard's shadow.

[00:57:01] Like, come on.

[00:57:03] Yeah.

[00:57:03] Yeah.

[00:57:04] Sims.

[00:57:05] You're good at what you do.

[00:57:07] You are a blunt instrument.

[00:57:08] You are a blunt instrument.

[00:57:10] Mate.

[00:57:10] But Bernard's not handing you all the secrets of the silo.

[00:57:13] Yeah.

[00:57:14] Yeah.

[00:57:14] No, you are, you are an enforcer.

[00:57:16] That is what you are.

[00:57:17] That is what you do.

[00:57:18] But it's also just like the way he uses, he knows that he can use Bernard as like a weapon to fire up the silo.

[00:57:25] Just the way the, I'm sorry that he can use Sims as a weapon to fire up the silo.

[00:57:29] Just the way Sims uses words.

[00:57:30] Like he's a gang from mechanical.

[00:57:32] Like it's four people.

[00:57:33] It's four people.

[00:57:35] Including as you know, Bernard points out to, to, you know, middle and two middle, two middle aged women.

[00:57:41] They're not going to make a dash for the.

[00:57:43] Yeah.

[00:57:44] Um, it just reminds me of, yeah, you, you hear the same thing on news in our world.

[00:57:48] Like, oh, it's a caravan of people and like all this, like everybody calm down and let's just.

[00:57:54] Yeah.

[00:57:55] Yeah.

[00:57:55] Yeah.

[00:57:55] Yeah.

[00:57:56] Take a beat here.

[00:57:57] Now the perceptions of groups is often about the adjectives that leaders choose to describe them.

[00:58:03] So, but then, yeah, the conversation in the hallway pivots and we find out Sims is also worried that Meadows agreed to hear an appeal on the sentencing of one stargazing.

[00:58:13] It boy named Lucas Kyle played by Avinash.

[00:58:17] So, yeah.

[00:58:18] Yeah.

[00:58:19] Yeah.

[00:58:20] Yeah.

[00:58:20] Yeah.

[00:58:22] But also, oh, Lucas.

[00:58:24] Oh, Lucas.

[00:58:26] He is still arrested.

[00:58:27] Damn it.

[00:58:28] Yeah.

[00:58:30] Yeah.

[00:58:30] So, I mean, I think the real reason that Sims is quote unquote concerned about Meadows is that he's concerned that she's sliding into the job that he wants.

[00:58:40] Yeah.

[00:58:41] Yeah.

[00:58:42] Yeah.

[00:58:43] But, but, but also I think, I think that from Sims point of view, you know, she's a, she's a liberal squish.

[00:58:49] Um, you know, she's too forgiving of all these people in mechanical.

[00:58:53] She's too.

[00:58:54] Yeah.

[00:58:55] Like you say, like you say, Sims is a reaction, you know, Sims is a reaction.

[00:58:59] Right.

[00:59:00] Um, you know, I think that's a reaction.

[00:59:00] How do you think he would handle that job?

[00:59:02] You know, being this, the shadow finding out stuff.

[00:59:06] That's an interesting question.

[00:59:08] Yeah.

[00:59:11] Yeah.

[00:59:11] It might just sort of like completely blow his mind.

[00:59:14] It might sort of completely change his view of the world.

[00:59:17] Um, but yeah, like Sims is not like temper, Bernard's absolutely right.

[00:59:24] Like temperamentally Sims is not the person you want to be head of it.

[00:59:28] Yeah.

[00:59:29] Yeah.

[00:59:29] Yeah.

[00:59:30] Um, this week's spoiler cast is going to be about how different characters in the books

[00:59:35] did handle this job, what the job really entails.

[00:59:39] And yeah, it's kind of you, I mean, you already know, even if you're just watching the TV show,

[00:59:45] you do not want the wrong person in this position, especially considering they will one day take over as acting head of the silo secret head of the silo.

[00:59:53] Yeah.

[00:59:54] But this is the thing.

[00:59:55] I think Bernard is the wrong person in this position because that's quite possible too.

[00:59:59] Yeah.

[01:00:00] Yeah.

[01:00:00] But Sims is especially, you don't want someone who's that short tempered.

[01:00:05] Yeah.

[01:00:05] Yeah.

[01:00:06] Um, Rob, he calls Bernard out for getting closer to Mary and asks Bernard to speak to her.

[01:00:14] And yeah, when Bernard turns and looks at him and says, you've been tracking that.

[01:00:19] I was like, Oh shit.

[01:00:21] Oh, you got caught.

[01:00:22] Oh shit.

[01:00:24] This is not going well for you.

[01:00:26] And yeah, like I say, I, I, I would be very surprised if we get to the end of season two without one of them,

[01:00:32] at least attempting to kill the other one.

[01:00:34] Yeah.

[01:00:35] Like this is where this is going.

[01:00:36] I think if Sims wife Camille, if she saw the, these interactions for herself, then she would not be pushing him.

[01:00:45] She would, I think she would be able to tell how dangerous it was getting.

[01:00:50] And Sims doesn't seem to realize.

[01:00:52] Yeah.

[01:00:52] Cause this is, this is the whole point of their marriage.

[01:00:55] He's the one with the power, but she's the one who's actually more intelligent.

[01:00:59] She's actually clever.

[01:01:00] And he is certainly more political than he is.

[01:01:03] Mm hmm.

[01:01:05] Yeah.

[01:01:06] Yeah.

[01:01:06] It's a shame that she's not the one in that position.

[01:01:08] She would be a much better shadow.

[01:01:09] She would.

[01:01:10] Yeah.

[01:01:11] Yeah.

[01:01:12] Uh, but yeah, Bernard is more upset about these meetings that, uh, that, that Meadows is having than he lets on to Sims.

[01:01:20] Uh, but Mary says it sends a better message to let citizens of the silo speak to their judge.

[01:01:25] Bernard disagrees.

[01:01:27] Um, she, I don't know.

[01:01:29] I feel like she wants to have these meetings mostly out of curiosity though, because she knows Bernard is lying.

[01:01:33] What do you think?

[01:01:35] Yeah.

[01:01:35] And also I think we find out as well, would she wants to have the meeting with Lucas cause she wants to share some scientific knowledge.

[01:01:42] Hmm.

[01:01:43] You know, she wants to, she wants to know exactly how much he knows.

[01:01:47] Right.

[01:01:47] Exactly.

[01:01:48] Yeah.

[01:01:48] I think she also just wants to be able to talk to someone.

[01:01:50] Yeah.

[01:01:51] Yeah.

[01:01:51] When, when Bernard's like, she's like, well, why don't you want me to meet with Lucas Kyle?

[01:01:56] And he's like, he's dangerous.

[01:01:57] And she's like, he's dangerous.

[01:01:58] Well now I really want to meet him.

[01:02:00] What?

[01:02:01] Yeah.

[01:02:02] I mean, yeah.

[01:02:03] Meadows is a girl left in my own heart.

[01:02:05] I would say too.

[01:02:07] Um, Meadows says, yeah, that if Meadows like shuts him down at this point, says if he wants her to take him seriously, he better bring that fricking cleaning suit.

[01:02:17] Do you think this is the conversation where he decided she had to die?

[01:02:21] Or do you think it was not until the impeachment thing started?

[01:02:24] I think it was not until the impeachment thing started.

[01:02:28] Okay.

[01:02:28] I mean, I, I, I can see, I can see an argument both.

[01:02:32] Like I can see it going both ways, but I think it's the impeachment thing.

[01:02:36] Yeah.

[01:02:37] The problem.

[01:02:37] He's probably got the idea at this point, but I don't think he's made his mind up.

[01:02:41] No.

[01:02:42] Yeah.

[01:02:42] He's probably, he's getting worried for sure.

[01:02:44] I think.

[01:02:45] Yeah.

[01:02:45] Yeah.

[01:02:46] Or maybe he, I mean, he clearly never intended to make that suit for her or to allow her to go out.

[01:02:53] So how long could he have kept that charade up?

[01:02:57] I don't know.

[01:02:57] It's not like the suits, how it's to be.

[01:03:00] It depends how difficult the suits are to manufacture.

[01:03:02] I mean.

[01:03:03] Yeah.

[01:03:04] I mean, I guess he wouldn't want to tell people to do that because I don't, I don't,

[01:03:09] do we even know if the suits actually exist?

[01:03:11] Because if so, Solo doesn't seem to know about it because that would be exactly what

[01:03:15] Juliet's looking for right now.

[01:03:17] Yeah.

[01:03:17] What?

[01:03:17] You mean the emergency head of IT suit?

[01:03:19] Mm hmm.

[01:03:20] Um, yeah.

[01:03:21] Cause it doesn't make sense.

[01:03:22] Why would the head of IT have their own suit?

[01:03:24] That doesn't make sense.

[01:03:26] Hmm.

[01:03:27] Yeah.

[01:03:28] Yeah.

[01:03:29] Well, okay.

[01:03:30] So Rob, he's talking to his wife, Camille, Alexandria Riley in their apartment.

[01:03:35] And Camille says that while she worked in judicial, people used to talk about how brilliant Judge

[01:03:40] Meadows was, but then something happened and she started drinking instead of thinking.

[01:03:44] And Rob has an idea to get Meadows out of the way.

[01:03:48] Um, he, they just need to get her impeached.

[01:03:51] There are three possible grounds for impeaching a judge, proven misbehavior, incapacity to act,

[01:03:57] or endangering the silo.

[01:03:59] And even Camille's worrying that the impeachment could be destabilizing for the silo as a whole.

[01:04:05] But Rob says it could also unite the upper half.

[01:04:08] And he's going to ask other levels of, and heads of departments to align with him to make this happen,

[01:04:15] uh, to stop the mechanical meeting if possible.

[01:04:18] Camille points out that even just the threat of impeachment will send a message to Bernard.

[01:04:23] And she hopes that it will push Bernard to sideline Meadows and turn back to her husband for counsel instead.

[01:04:30] So yeah, uniting the upper half, part of this whole flawed idea that if the top is strong, they can crush the bottom.

[01:04:39] Still don't like that twist.

[01:04:40] But I mean, I guess in the real world, there are people who think that, aren't there?

[01:04:45] Who think like, as long as, as long as all the people above a certain level are, um, you know, lock elbows, they can keep the proletariat down.

[01:04:56] Yeah, but I mean, this is the thing. The silo is not the real world.

[01:04:59] Like, everybody's roles are much more clearly defined.

[01:05:03] And it's a much more closed, much more, um, controlled environment.

[01:05:08] In the sense of, you know, it has to be sort of environmentally controlled in order for people to live.

[01:05:13] So I don't think there's actually like much, I don't, there's only so far you can compare the silo to the real world because it's a totally different environment.

[01:05:24] Mm hmm.

[01:05:25] Um, see, this is where I, this is where I think this episode was a little bit rushed, because I am a sucker for a bit of courtroom drama.

[01:05:33] Mm hmm.

[01:05:34] And I would have loved to have seen what the impeachment process was, what it looked like.

[01:05:40] Because like, what Sims is implying is there is some sort of quasi parliamentary body with all the heads of department and all the heads of the different levels sort of coming together as a court.

[01:05:53] Mm hmm.

[01:05:54] And I would, I would, I would just, I would just have loved to have seen that. Like I said, I'm a sucker for a bit of courtroom drama.

[01:05:59] Yeah.

[01:06:00] I mean, yeah, no, I'm, I'm not surprised they didn't do that. And people already complained that this show is slow. Like some people do.

[01:06:06] That if people complain, that's what they complain about. So I can see why they didn't do that. And also from, you know, this is a book reader perspective thing. But you know, one of the reasons why book readers have been freaking out is because we have this powerful character Meadows who's emerging at the center of stuff and she's not from the books or like, well, how does that affect everything else?

[01:06:25] So I can imagine from that perspective, they're like, okay, we threw this curve ball at you, but now we get her out of the way so we can get back on track with the book story.

[01:06:36] Yeah, but she's really good.

[01:06:39] Yeah, I know. I know. I really liked her. I'm sad to see her go, even though I'm like, okay, well, that yeah.

[01:06:45] Yeah, I had to happen in a way. It was like, as soon as as soon as Bernard told her she was going to get the suit, it was like, she's not surviving this season.

[01:06:53] And also like, I want to see I want to see the silo law firm.

[01:06:58] Oh, no, whatever it is that there is a pact, therefore there must be there is a pact.

[01:07:04] There must be lawyers to represent rules, therefore there must be lawyers. I want to see. I want to see. Yeah.

[01:07:09] Yeah. Well, this is only season two. There's still time for it. Yeah.

[01:07:15] Yeah, I think though, just the fact that Sims thinks at this point that there is any chance he might get that job shows exactly how ill suited for the job he is.

[01:07:25] Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

[01:07:27] It's like Rob read between the lines, right?

[01:07:31] It's not even read between the lines. It's read the text.

[01:07:37] I mean, so I just said, I think Camille would be better than Rob at the job and I agree. But would she also be too smart like Meadows? For Bernard anyway?

[01:07:48] Possibly.

[01:07:48] No.

[01:07:49] I mean, I think probably the ideal candidate is Billings. But Billings has too much, I think Billings has too much of a moral core to do that job.

[01:07:58] Right.

[01:07:59] Well, I think Bernard's probably starting to realize that too. Yeah.

[01:08:03] Yeah.

[01:08:04] Yeah.

[01:08:07] Oh yeah. So Billings confessed his syndrome to Meadows and then now she's gone. He trusted someone. He trusted Juliet and then she's gone. He trusted Meadows and then she's gone.

[01:08:17] Yeah.

[01:08:17] Yeah.

[01:08:18] Hmm.

[01:08:19] So speaking of Billings, meanwhile, while Team Mechanical Supply plans their trip up, Paul Billings, Chinaza Uche, departs for his trip down to the deep, responding to Hank's request for his presence after the lethal firebombing slash shooting incident last week.

[01:08:36] His wife, played by Caitlin Zaz, is worried. She says there's a mob from Mechanical on their way up and Paul offers to have a deputy stay with her, but she just wants Paul to stay. But duty calls. He thinks he can make a difference.

[01:08:52] So it's interesting how alike she and Sims sound when they talk about that mob. You know, she's, she calls it a mob. He calls it a gang. Um, I think she is the type of person who listens to people like Sims. And that's maybe why I've never really liked her as a character. I mean, I think she's a well-drawn character. I just don't like her.

[01:09:13] And also, there's something really like nicely domestic about it when she's going, have you got enough ginger? Yeah. It's just like, she's walking around with the baby as well. And there's just, it's just something really touchingly domestic about the whole thing.

[01:09:27] Yeah. She has something to fear for losing, you know?

[01:09:31] Yeah. But yeah, I mean, I think, I think you're right. I mean, she's not. Yeah, she's, she's just happy living her life, doing her thing, not really questioning authority kind of thing.

[01:09:44] Right. And if Sims says something, it's, if Sims says people are bad, then those people must be bad.

[01:09:52] Paul is the voice of reason in their relationship, clearly. He's like, it's just a few people. The judge agreed and I trust the judge.

[01:09:59] Um, and then he says, he'll ask somebody to stop by and we'll come back as soon as I can.

[01:10:04] But now, as soon as he said, I will come back as soon as I can, I'm like, oh no, what's going to happen? That's going to prevent him from coming back.

[01:10:12] It's like, yeah, don't say that. That's like saying it's going to be the best Christmas ever. Like, you're going to retire in two weeks.

[01:10:19] Yeah, exactly.

[01:10:21] Hmm. So once Billings reaches the down deep deputy station, Hank Billy Posslethwaite walks him through the whole incident with a firebomb.

[01:10:32] The shooter was Reggie Smalls, a retired raider we met last week, who says he was just doing as he was trained.

[01:10:39] Cooper lost his life trying to stop the fire bomber, a guy no one recognized.

[01:10:44] So yeah, doing as trained reminds me a lot about especially the police, uh, you know, situations and especially the U.S. with shootings, but also about training videos for the police that have made the rounds that emphasize aggression.

[01:11:02] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[01:11:05] And I said, I wondered if Sims picked him because he knew he would be aggressive.

[01:11:10] But I don't think he's like, I mean, I think that's, I think that's an institutional aspect of the raiders.

[01:11:17] Like, I don't get the sense he is any more trigger happy than any of the other raiders.

[01:11:25] Well, I don't, I mean, he had, he had, um, awards hanging on his wall.

[01:11:30] For marks and shit.

[01:11:31] Yeah.

[01:11:31] But that doesn't necessarily mean he's trigger happy, but also that whole thing about him being left alone with someone for five minutes, maybe to beat him up.

[01:11:42] It's, yeah.

[01:11:44] Suggests a certain extra aggressiveness.

[01:11:47] And the question is, is he still in the down date?

[01:11:50] Are we gonna, yeah, is he still there?

[01:11:52] Reggie Smalls.

[01:11:53] I imagine he probably went back up.

[01:11:55] Yeah.

[01:11:56] Yeah.

[01:11:57] And yeah, so that's when we get that exchange that you brought up earlier.

[01:12:01] Like, uh, did they give a reason?

[01:12:03] No.

[01:12:04] When I asked this, they just gave me that look, you know, that judicial look.

[01:12:08] I used to be in judicial.

[01:12:10] Sorry.

[01:12:10] No, I know what you look, you mean.

[01:12:12] Yeah.

[01:12:12] They've got resting judicial face.

[01:12:14] Yeah, exactly.

[01:12:16] Um, and so Hank then takes Paul to go see Cooper's body, but judicial took the body.

[01:12:22] They said they wanted a body.

[01:12:24] And that was the only body there since the other body just disappeared in the middle of the night.

[01:12:29] And when Billings hears the description of the other body that disappeared, a guy about age 40 with a medium build, long hair and a beard.

[01:12:37] He begins to wonder if it might be that same guy that Juliet arrested to save his life last season.

[01:12:45] So again, Billings is like the super detective, like almost supernatural ability.

[01:12:49] Like that is the most average description of someone you could give.

[01:12:53] He's like medium build.

[01:12:54] He's got like hair.

[01:12:57] Yeah.

[01:12:58] He must be really well.

[01:12:59] What was that?

[01:13:00] What was that game?

[01:13:01] You used to play as a kid.

[01:13:02] It was like a board game and you had a load of faces.

[01:13:05] Oh, is it guess who?

[01:13:06] Guess who?

[01:13:07] Yeah.

[01:13:07] Billings must be absolutely brilliant at guess who.

[01:13:10] He's like beard.

[01:13:12] Oh, yeah.

[01:13:14] Hmm.

[01:13:16] Yeah.

[01:13:16] So I still want to know what they did with Cooper's body.

[01:13:20] This is a lingering question.

[01:13:22] Well, yeah, that's kind of one of those things.

[01:13:24] I might want to know about what happened to Cooper's body.

[01:13:26] I might not.

[01:13:27] It depends on what actually happened.

[01:13:29] Like I don't like the thought of Cooper being like, you know, dismembered or something.

[01:13:36] Yeah.

[01:13:37] Why would they want to do that?

[01:13:38] I don't understand.

[01:13:39] I don't know.

[01:13:40] It's that's got to come back.

[01:13:44] Well, you know, maybe, maybe the medical department, you know, voluntary organ donor, maybe.

[01:13:51] Maybe.

[01:13:52] Maybe.

[01:13:53] Hmm.

[01:13:53] Okay.

[01:13:55] So what they normally do is they bury the bodies in the fields to fertilize.

[01:13:59] So.

[01:13:59] Yeah.

[01:14:00] Yeah.

[01:14:00] Because we saw that last season.

[01:14:02] Mm hmm.

[01:14:02] I mean, I guess they could remove the organs first, but.

[01:14:05] Yeah.

[01:14:06] Okay.

[01:14:07] Speaking of involuntary fertilizer, we're going to take a quick break.

[01:14:11] And when we come back, we're going to talk about Mary Meadows last day.

[01:14:18] So in Mary Meadows office, Lucas's appeal is not going well.

[01:14:23] Meadows points out that he's just saying yes, but to all the accusations that he had his hands

[01:14:28] on the red level relic that he slunk away when there was a raid on Juliet's apartment.

[01:14:32] She knows he doesn't think that his sentence 10 years in the mines is fair, but it's an

[01:14:38] important job.

[01:14:39] She says Lucas asks why he was even granted the request for a review if she already had

[01:14:45] her mind made up.

[01:14:46] And she sends the two agents that are guarding him out of the room and asks him why he thinks

[01:14:52] she took the meeting.

[01:14:54] He says he assumes it was to see if he knew what was on the hard drive, but she says no,

[01:14:58] because we learn later.

[01:15:00] She presumably already knows.

[01:15:02] And she starts to ask him what he knows about the lights in the sky he's so fond of staring

[01:15:06] at.

[01:15:07] He's figured out that the earth is a rotating globe, and that's why the lights in the sky

[01:15:12] appear to move.

[01:15:13] And also why there is night and day.

[01:15:16] Meadows tells him the lights in the sky are called stars, and they are massive burning

[01:15:20] spheres of radiative gas.

[01:15:22] But he's right about the rotating earth.

[01:15:24] It also revolves around the sun, which is also one of those stars, and there are billions

[01:15:29] of others.

[01:15:30] And Lucas is enthralled with this story.

[01:15:33] His face lights up.

[01:15:34] But as he starts to ask if there are other worlds out there like theirs, she calls the

[01:15:38] agents back in, and she tells him with them as witnesses that for his cooperation, his

[01:15:44] sentence has been cut in half to five years in the mines.

[01:15:47] When Bernard later questions her about what he sees as leniency, she says someone like him

[01:15:53] wouldn't survive a year anyway.

[01:15:57] So clearly, yeah, she knows things about the nature of the universe.

[01:16:02] You know, the people who know things always have access to that one room.

[01:16:06] We've seen it with Solo.

[01:16:07] We've seen it with Bernard.

[01:16:08] We've seen it with her now.

[01:16:10] I get the sense, though, that she called him in because she was just looking for someone

[01:16:14] else smart to talk to.

[01:16:16] Like, she knows all this stuff she can't talk about.

[01:16:18] Yeah, exactly.

[01:16:19] Exactly.

[01:16:20] And it's like, it's such a nice thing because it's like Lucas, Renaissance man.

[01:16:25] You know, you can imagine like Copernicus and Da Vinci having the same conversation.

[01:16:32] It's, yeah.

[01:16:33] And also, I think like Judge Meadows knew she had to send him to the mines, but wanted

[01:16:40] him to know that he was right.

[01:16:42] You know, wanted him to have that, the comfort of that.

[01:16:45] Right.

[01:16:46] Yeah.

[01:16:47] So, yeah, keep using your mind.

[01:16:49] Yeah.

[01:16:50] But it felt kind of like he failed some test from her.

[01:16:53] Did you get that sense?

[01:16:55] Yeah, a little bit.

[01:16:56] But I'm not sure what the test was.

[01:16:59] Yeah.

[01:17:00] So she cut his time in half.

[01:17:02] Do you think she really, she told Bernard she expects him to die.

[01:17:05] Do you think she really meant that or that was just something to get Bernard off her

[01:17:09] bed?

[01:17:09] No, I think, I think unfortunately she really meant it.

[01:17:12] I mean, Lucas is not, you know, Lucas is not a fine physical specimen.

[01:17:19] He is kind of.

[01:17:20] I mean, not in that way.

[01:17:21] Not in the finding way.

[01:17:22] Not in the kind of, yeah, not in the kind of way you want to be hacking or out of rock

[01:17:26] kind of way.

[01:17:27] So I think, I think she's probably right.

[01:17:31] And I mean, and mentally for him too, like he is someone who likes to sit at the top and

[01:17:36] stare beyond and wonder what's there.

[01:17:38] And then shoving him down in the deepest pit of the earth where he, his curiosity is just

[01:17:44] has nothing.

[01:17:45] There's nothing he can do.

[01:17:46] Yeah.

[01:17:48] There's nothing for him to sort of grasp on to.

[01:17:51] Yeah.

[01:17:52] I wonder if the miners have access to the digger room.

[01:17:56] I wonder if they know about it.

[01:17:57] We haven't seen them in there.

[01:17:59] No, we don't.

[01:17:59] We don't know anything about the miners.

[01:18:02] Um, so one thing I noticed a motif throughout the episode is we see Meadows during the scene.

[01:18:09] She's rolling these worry balls in her hand.

[01:18:11] And then we see Sims tossing balls with his wife in their apartments.

[01:18:16] And then at another point, we see that Carla is using red and green balls to, to communicate

[01:18:23] with the down deep.

[01:18:24] It's just interesting.

[01:18:25] There's a lot of like these same shaped balls.

[01:18:28] Yeah.

[01:18:29] And we have the, we have the apple falling in the credit sequence as well.

[01:18:34] Yeah.

[01:18:35] Yeah.

[01:18:36] It just was especially this episode.

[01:18:38] Um, yeah.

[01:18:39] So we talked about the, the metal comes from the mines they needed it.

[01:18:42] No one wants to work down there.

[01:18:43] So it's a punishment.

[01:18:45] Um, I do think they should be recycling more, but okay.

[01:18:49] Miners.

[01:18:50] Yeah.

[01:18:50] Apparently in yellow coveralls and in the book, like in the excerpt that I read above, uh,

[01:18:56] yellow was supplies color.

[01:18:58] So I'm just curious.

[01:19:00] I guess it doesn't really matter that they changed that.

[01:19:02] Just curious.

[01:19:03] Um, it wasn't it also Juliet.

[01:19:07] She put on yellow coveralls in the other silo.

[01:19:10] Yeah, she did.

[01:19:10] But we don't know whether the color coding is the same.

[01:19:13] No, it must not be because that was rather high up in the silo.

[01:19:16] That wouldn't be minors.

[01:19:17] Yeah.

[01:19:18] No, it wouldn't.

[01:19:47] Yeah.

[01:19:50] So yeah, that, that those banners were like a really big F you in her face.

[01:19:57] Yeah, they really were.

[01:19:58] And also they were put together very quickly.

[01:20:01] Yeah.

[01:20:01] Yeah.

[01:20:02] Well, I guess, yeah, I guess that's easily enough done, but, um, yeah.

[01:20:12] Yeah.

[01:20:21] Yeah.

[01:20:23] No one would even notice four people walking up the stairs.

[01:20:26] Yeah.

[01:20:27] Yeah.

[01:20:29] Yeah.

[01:20:29] All they want is to build better suits and to send a few people to explore outside meadows.

[01:20:34] She points out to Bernard and it sounds a lot like what Mary wanted for herself.

[01:20:40] You know, she's like, I just want to put on a suit and explore outside.

[01:20:43] That's all I want.

[01:20:44] Yeah.

[01:20:45] Yeah.

[01:20:46] So I'm wondering if Bernard was afraid she might say yes to them.

[01:20:50] Although she says she merely says that she was going to form a committee to explore the idea,

[01:20:55] which, you know, Bernard points out is killing it with bureaucracy.

[01:20:58] And I do think she would have done that, but I wonder if part of him is like, oh,

[01:21:02] that's what she wants for herself.

[01:21:03] What if she encourages it?

[01:21:05] Maybe.

[01:21:06] But I was also like, I was also a bit disappointed in Bernard at this point, because like,

[01:21:11] that is the inevitable consequence of the speech you made.

[01:21:14] Like, of course, people are going to demand that if you've got this new whiz bang tape.

[01:21:19] That you're going to use it.

[01:21:21] Like, what did you think was going to happen?

[01:21:23] This is, if it hadn't come from mechanical, it would surely have come from somewhere else.

[01:21:29] Yeah.

[01:21:30] Like, it's just, it's just the logical consequence of what you've already, you've created this

[01:21:35] situation, Bernard, and he seems like oblivious to that fact.

[01:21:38] Mm-hmm.

[01:21:39] Mm-hmm.

[01:21:40] Yeah.

[01:21:41] Yeah.

[01:21:42] I mean, I think Bernard's, he's smart with like hacking and numbers and, you know, logic

[01:21:47] and things like that.

[01:21:48] But Meadows has more wisdom when it comes to how the mind works, how people work.

[01:21:54] Yeah.

[01:21:55] Like he's blinkered.

[01:21:56] Mm-hmm.

[01:21:56] He's got a path that he has to follow.

[01:21:58] Yeah.

[01:21:59] Yeah, absolutely.

[01:22:00] Yeah.

[01:22:01] But Bernard, he apologizes to her for the impeachment stuff going on.

[01:22:04] Um, Mary says she doesn't care though.

[01:22:06] She plans to be long gone on her secret little walk before that happens.

[01:22:09] So Bernard invites her over for dinner.

[01:22:12] There's a goofy vibe between them.

[01:22:15] Like, like, oh, we might hook up that night.

[01:22:17] Um, so I think that's what they were setting up for the audience to think, but he promises

[01:22:22] her that her suit will be there as well.

[01:22:24] He says, come for dinner at seven and the suit will be brought up at nine.

[01:22:28] And then, uh, and then she, yeah, she walks out and Bernard takes out his key fob and stares

[01:22:35] at it.

[01:22:35] So we now know that the key on there unlocks the server room, but he's staring at like

[01:22:40] the key chain part of it that we've seen before light up and buzz.

[01:22:44] Yeah.

[01:22:45] Um, what do you think he was waiting for or make it, it was making him think about something?

[01:22:50] I'm not sure.

[01:22:51] I'm not sure.

[01:22:52] I hope we find out in future episodes.

[01:22:54] Yeah.

[01:22:55] They pointedly showed that.

[01:22:56] Yeah.

[01:22:57] Yeah.

[01:22:57] They seem to go out of their way to show him doing that.

[01:23:00] So it's clearly got some significance.

[01:23:02] Yeah.

[01:23:03] Definitely.

[01:23:05] Um, so the dinner itself.

[01:23:08] Okay.

[01:23:08] We're going to talk, I'm going to, um, recap the entire series of events through the tragedy

[01:23:14] and then we're going to talk about it.

[01:23:15] Okay.

[01:23:16] So, uh, Bernard has prepared chicken and mushrooms for dinner while he plays the music

[01:23:20] of late 19th, early 20th century French composer, Eric Satie, which he knows is a favorite of

[01:23:27] Mary's.

[01:23:27] He teases her about a race she ran once long ago.

[01:23:31] And the conversation about the good old days is warm and pleasant until Mary asks about the

[01:23:36] suit.

[01:23:36] He promised her and she realizes it isn't coming.

[01:23:40] She starts to realize that he's actually poisoned her.

[01:23:44] He didn't put it in the wine because he wasn't sure she would drink it having recently, allegedly

[01:23:48] given up alcohol and all.

[01:23:49] So it was in the mushrooms.

[01:23:52] He tells her she has minutes rather than hours left to live, but her death will reunite the

[01:23:58] silo against mechanical.

[01:23:59] Of course, she asks about the hard drive Julia Tad, which, uh, Bernard reiterates that he

[01:24:06] destroyed asking what was on it.

[01:24:08] She says that even if he knew he couldn't do anything about it, but she tells him it had

[01:24:14] something to do with someone called Salvador Quinn, who was head of it 140 years ago during

[01:24:21] the rebellion.

[01:24:21] He wrote a letter.

[01:24:23] Then part of it was in code and Mary seems to have deciphered that code, but she says

[01:24:28] she can't tell Bernard what was in it.

[01:24:30] This has to do with why Mary stepped down as Bernard shadow 25 years ago after vanishing

[01:24:36] for four days.

[01:24:37] She told him then she didn't want to be tethered to him for the rest of her life, but she says now

[01:24:42] that that was not true.

[01:24:43] It seems there was at least some emotional connection between them the whole time, but

[01:24:48] she knew he could never give himself fully to her because of his job.

[01:24:53] She asks if she can go to the cafeteria one last time to see the outside, but Bernard can't

[01:24:58] let that happen.

[01:24:59] There might not be enough time.

[01:25:01] She could be a loose cannon and he doesn't want her to die in public, of course, but he

[01:25:06] has something even better.

[01:25:07] He brings out a VR headset video from Costa Rica's Monteverde cloud forest taken in 2018.

[01:25:16] And Bernard clearly knows the program well.

[01:25:18] And he tells her where to look for the best animal spottings as it runs after it's over.

[01:25:23] Meadows asks, what did they do?

[01:25:26] Bernard, how did they lose this world?

[01:25:28] And she slumps into his arms.

[01:25:31] So Luke, reactions?

[01:25:35] Okay.

[01:25:35] The first thing I thought about watching the scene is, did you watch the show Hannibal?

[01:25:40] No, I need to.

[01:25:43] Okay.

[01:25:43] Okay.

[01:25:44] Like whoever was doing, like the director clearly liked the show Hannibal because when

[01:25:49] you do the little, like obviously it's Hannibal Lecter, so cooking and food are a big part

[01:25:54] of the show and the whole thing with like Tim Robbins throwing the chicken and mushrooms

[01:25:59] with the classical music playing in the background.

[01:26:01] And he's even got his little copper Faitou saucepan going, you know, so Bernard is a bit

[01:26:07] of a foodie.

[01:26:09] And it really put me in mind of the show Hannibal.

[01:26:12] You know what that reminded me of?

[01:26:15] It reminded me of Solomon from Beacon 23.

[01:26:18] Yes.

[01:26:19] Yeah, it did.

[01:26:20] But like for Hannibal, all that was missing was the Goldberg variations.

[01:26:25] Like they chose a different piece of music, but all that was missing was their Goldberg

[01:26:30] variations.

[01:26:32] I love the little back and forth about the race between Meadows and Bernard.

[01:26:38] Hmm.

[01:26:39] Hmm.

[01:26:39] Because that is like the, that is the conversation you get of two people who have known each

[01:26:42] other and have been fond of each other for a very long time.

[01:26:45] And then you get this, this wonderful throwaway line.

[01:26:48] Well, thank you for not, for not entirely terrible evening.

[01:26:51] Hmm.

[01:26:52] Hmm.

[01:26:53] Hmm.

[01:26:53] Hmm.

[01:26:54] And it's like, oh, but also like when, when Meadows figures out she's been poisoned, like

[01:27:01] her reaction is kind of telling because her first instinct is not to lunge, you know,

[01:27:06] after Bernard with a knife.

[01:27:07] If it's to, it's to ask him why it's to try and figure out what's going on.

[01:27:13] Small point.

[01:27:14] But when he says it's in the mushrooms, did he mean he poisoned the mushrooms or did he

[01:27:19] mean he'd given a poisonous variety of mushrooms?

[01:27:23] Oh, good, good question.

[01:27:25] Good question.

[01:27:26] I'm not sure.

[01:27:26] Actually, I had assumed that he had just like cooked something into the mushrooms, but

[01:27:30] it might've been that the mushrooms themselves were poisonous, but why would those exist

[01:27:35] in the silo?

[01:27:36] I don't know.

[01:27:37] Maybe for this purpose?

[01:27:38] Well, anyway, it's not, it's not a big deal, but.

[01:27:40] Yeah.

[01:27:42] Um, I thought it was really interesting when he was doing the description of the VR headset,

[01:27:47] Bernard not only knew what all the animals were, but he knew their, you know, he knew

[01:27:51] their names, he knew, he knew how you could tell male from female, um, for the birds.

[01:27:58] So the depth and breadth of Bernard's knowledge is wider and deeper.

[01:28:03] But I think, thought it probably was.

[01:28:06] I think that's one thing that the scene illustrates.

[01:28:10] Um, I mean, this obviously, this hurt Bernard, right?

[01:28:13] Like.

[01:28:14] Oh yeah.

[01:28:14] Like, like deeply.

[01:28:15] And like the look, like Tim Robbins is sort of, he does a really good job of showing that

[01:28:21] this hurts Bernard deeply, but also that that's not going to stop him from doing what he feels

[01:28:25] he needs to do.

[01:28:26] Oh yeah.

[01:28:27] Definitely.

[01:28:28] Like, like he is sad about this, but his conscience is okay with it in the end.

[01:28:34] Yeah.

[01:28:35] Um, yeah, but yeah, it really, it really, it really hurt him.

[01:28:40] And like what we were saying in, what I was saying in episode three about maybe they had

[01:28:44] a one night stand.

[01:28:45] No, no, no.

[01:28:45] This, this, this was a serious relationship.

[01:28:49] You know, they were, you know, like, I think because we've said before, we don't really

[01:28:54] know anything about Bernard.

[01:28:56] Well, we know this now.

[01:28:58] We know that we know that we know that he loved Mary Meadows and that she loved him back.

[01:29:03] Yeah.

[01:29:03] We don't know if they went for it actually, but there was obviously feelings there.

[01:29:08] Yeah.

[01:29:08] Yeah.

[01:29:09] And I mean, that's really important for a character like Bernard because it makes him three dimensional.

[01:29:14] Mm hmm.

[01:29:15] But then he still killed her.

[01:29:16] But then he still killed her.

[01:29:18] Yeah.

[01:29:18] Because his first duties to the silo and he thought.

[01:29:21] Well, his first duties to the order actually.

[01:29:23] Well.

[01:29:24] Yeah.

[01:29:25] To the silo via the order.

[01:29:27] Um, so yeah, I thought it was, it was such a shame, especially because it was after this

[01:29:33] like lovely dinner.

[01:29:35] Uh, so we know they don't let the plebs read books like the Wizard of Oz because, you

[01:29:40] know, Juliet and Solo had that conversation about books.

[01:29:42] I'm guessing this music that we've been hearing from our world is also forbidden.

[01:29:47] Like, what do you think other people listen to while they have dinner in their apartments?

[01:29:52] Well, we know from like, um, Freedom Day in season one that there's a lot of, you know,

[01:29:57] like homemade music and homemade instruments.

[01:30:00] So I'm not necessarily sure they listen to anything because I'm not sure they have the technology

[01:30:05] to actually record.

[01:30:06] Right.

[01:30:07] That's true.

[01:30:08] To actually record music.

[01:30:09] Yeah.

[01:30:10] Um, but yeah, there's clearly a lot of homemade music in the silo.

[01:30:14] A lot of sort of quasi skiffle.

[01:30:17] Skiffle.

[01:30:17] Yeah.

[01:30:18] Yeah.

[01:30:19] Which is, yeah, it's sort of country music sort of made with homemade sort of instruments.

[01:30:23] Okay.

[01:30:24] All right.

[01:30:25] So who would you let the, pick the, pick the music for your silo seclusion solo or Holland

[01:30:31] and Meadows?

[01:30:35] That's a difficult choice.

[01:30:37] For me, it's an easy one.

[01:30:40] I think I might go with Bernard Meadows.

[01:30:43] Hmm.

[01:30:43] I refuse to use Bernard's surname because nobody else ever does.

[01:30:48] I know.

[01:30:49] They gave him one.

[01:30:50] He doesn't have one in the books actually.

[01:30:52] Okay.

[01:30:52] He's got Bernard the whole time.

[01:30:54] Um, okay.

[01:30:56] Yeah.

[01:30:56] I mean, I would, I would definitely go with solo's picks so far.

[01:30:59] He's two for two with me.

[01:31:00] Okay.

[01:31:02] But it does seem, it seems like Meadows did have something to do with that hard drive

[01:31:08] being out and about in the world.

[01:31:11] But if Bernard doesn't know what's on it, where did it come from?

[01:31:15] How is it that there's a hard drive that she knows its contents and Bernard does not?

[01:31:20] Well, maybe that, maybe that goes back to the fact that she is fundamentally intellectually

[01:31:25] curious and Bernard isn't.

[01:31:28] Right.

[01:31:28] If Bernard, if the order tells Bernard he's not meant to know something, then he doesn't

[01:31:32] want to know it.

[01:31:33] Yeah.

[01:31:34] Um, whereas I, I think one of the whole, one of the purposes of the whole scene with Lucas

[01:31:40] is to flag that, that she, that if there is a mystery, she will try and solve it.

[01:31:46] Right.

[01:31:46] If there's something she doesn't understand, she will try and understand it.

[01:31:49] And that's, it's not even a, it's not even a choice.

[01:31:53] It's a, it's, it's a fundamental character trait.

[01:31:56] It's a, it's, it's who she is.

[01:31:58] Do you think that that applies to Lucas as well?

[01:32:01] Given their concept?

[01:32:02] Yeah, I think it, I think it probably does.

[01:32:03] Even though he's, he tells, he told Bernard last season when he got arrested, he's like,

[01:32:08] I'm not curious.

[01:32:08] I'm just, well, what did he say?

[01:32:10] I don't know.

[01:32:12] I forget.

[01:32:13] Um, but he's, he's trying to, Lucas knows he needs to play down his curiosity.

[01:32:18] Yeah.

[01:32:18] Protect himself.

[01:32:20] Whereas I'm not, I'm not sure Meadows could, even if she wanted to.

[01:32:25] I mean, she was bossing Bernard around.

[01:32:27] I'm like, that's not going to go well.

[01:32:29] Yeah.

[01:32:29] I mean, it makes more sense given they have a, obviously a history, but, um, yeah.

[01:32:34] Yeah.

[01:32:35] Yeah.

[01:32:36] But again, like the hard drive, he destroyed Meadows without getting all the information

[01:32:40] first.

[01:32:40] So we still don't know what happened 25 years ago that made her quit.

[01:32:45] Uh, we now know she vanished for four days, but we don't know where she went or what she

[01:32:48] did there.

[01:32:50] Um, and we don't know why she can't tell Bernard what was in Salvador Quinn's letter.

[01:32:56] The whole, so yeah.

[01:33:00] So Salvador Quinn, not in the book.

[01:33:03] Um, there was the head of it in the book during that previous rebellion, which is 135 years,

[01:33:09] uh, before the head of it was a man named Mr.

[01:33:12] Wick and Mr.

[01:33:13] Wick.

[01:33:14] Uh, his name rhymes with Dick for a reason because he actually does, uh, intentionally

[01:33:20] try to start a mini war in the hopes of preventing a bigger one, but he sets it up to blame the

[01:33:26] porters, um, which ends up almost getting a character that Abby and I both love killed

[01:33:32] on his birthday after insulting him and his mom, like Mr. Wick, which is awful, but Mr.

[01:33:38] Wick sucked hard.

[01:33:39] But, um, yeah, so they've changed that.

[01:33:42] So presumably they're changing.

[01:33:44] They're, they've added a whole new story with a Salvador Quinn and the letter.

[01:33:48] And so I don't know what any of that stuff is.

[01:33:50] I'm just imagining Keanu Reeves now.

[01:33:54] As Mr.

[01:33:56] Wick.

[01:33:57] Why would Keanu Reeves?

[01:33:59] Keanu Reeves is so nice.

[01:34:00] Why would he be Mr.

[01:34:01] Wick the dick?

[01:34:02] John Wick.

[01:34:03] Oh, got it.

[01:34:04] Got it.

[01:34:05] Okay.

[01:34:05] But this one, maybe it's even Wyke.

[01:34:07] It's W-Y-C-K.

[01:34:09] Oh yeah.

[01:34:10] Y-K-E.

[01:34:11] Wyke.

[01:34:12] Yeah.

[01:34:13] Yeah.

[01:34:14] Mr. Wyke.

[01:34:15] Yeah.

[01:34:15] But it's the other one rhymes.

[01:34:17] So it's better.

[01:34:18] Um, yeah, I'm, I'm, by the way, I'm doubling down on my prediction that Danny is currently

[01:34:23] busy trying to get stuff off, off of that hard drive disc.

[01:34:26] Well, if, if he wasn't, he's probably going to be.

[01:34:29] Mm-hmm.

[01:34:31] Um, well, I mean, I presume when, you know, Sims went to Patrick and said like, we want

[01:34:36] you to do this firebomb thing that Bernard went to Danny and said, uh, you gotta do this

[01:34:41] disc thing.

[01:34:42] Yeah.

[01:34:44] Um, I, so I actually, I was in the Monteverdi cloud forest in 2019.

[01:34:49] So a year after this VR video was taken.

[01:34:52] And I have to say, this is an unbelievable collection of animals to be captured at one

[01:34:56] time.

[01:34:56] Like, okay.

[01:34:58] You don't, you don't see that many animals.

[01:35:00] I mean, you see, I mean, obviously, you know, they, they hide from people.

[01:35:04] So maybe if you go at the right time of day, there'll be more outs, but they're not just

[01:35:09] all gathered in one spot where you just look around like that Quetzal bird.

[01:35:13] Um, he mentions, yeah, there were people when I was in Costa Rica, people were like searching

[01:35:18] long and hard to see one Quetzal bird.

[01:35:21] And that's considered an achievement if you see one and he's like, look up, there's a flock

[01:35:25] of them.

[01:35:26] Like, okay.

[01:35:26] No, there were two.

[01:35:27] There wasn't a whole flock.

[01:35:28] There were just two.

[01:35:30] He said a flock.

[01:35:31] Oh, did he?

[01:35:32] Okay.

[01:35:32] Yeah.

[01:35:33] Uh, he said that the males had a two.

[01:35:37] He said, look, those two are males.

[01:35:38] Oh, sorry.

[01:35:40] Yeah.

[01:35:42] Another thing I wanted to point out here is the Bernard asks Meadows if she ever tried

[01:35:47] out the VR headset when she quote unquote sat with the legacy.

[01:35:51] And so this legacy it's with a capital L in the subtitles and it's a new word for the TV

[01:35:58] show.

[01:35:59] Do you have any thoughts on what it might mean?

[01:36:01] Um, no, to be honest, I was too caught up in the drama of Meadows dying to pay too much

[01:36:08] attention to that.

[01:36:09] But yeah, that's, that's interesting.

[01:36:11] So just saying, pay attention to that word legacy.

[01:36:15] Um, we did talk about it in the spoiler cast a couple of weeks ago for those who want those

[01:36:20] spoilers, though they are handling it differently in the show.

[01:36:23] It seems like everything else.

[01:36:25] So, and then after this is all done, Sim shows up with a knife and a body bag and Bernard

[01:36:32] tells him to do exactly as he instructs.

[01:36:37] And, um, Bernard puts back on his suit jacket, by the way, to let Sims in.

[01:36:42] So I think that that that's like a signal that he, Bernard was letting himself, you know,

[01:36:48] be more himself with Meadows.

[01:36:50] And now that Sims is back, he's like, oh, back to business.

[01:36:53] Yeah.

[01:36:53] The armor is, but the armor is back on.

[01:36:55] Yeah.

[01:36:55] Mm hmm.

[01:36:56] What do you think Sims thinks seeing what Bernard is willing to do to an alleged ally and potential

[01:37:03] shadow?

[01:37:04] Well, yeah.

[01:37:05] I mean, again, like, I just can't see either.

[01:37:08] Like I said, I wouldn't want to put money on which way it goes, but I can't see Sims and

[01:37:13] Bernard making it through this.

[01:37:15] This season.

[01:37:16] Because Sims has seemed somewhat oblivious to this point where he doesn't realize that

[01:37:20] he's making things worse, but you think he's starting to realize that his life could

[01:37:24] be in danger as well?

[01:37:26] I think he's getting there.

[01:37:27] Yeah.

[01:37:28] Yeah.

[01:37:28] And if, and if, if he doesn't get there, then, um, then, you know, the family Sims will

[01:37:34] sort of collectively, uh, realize that I think.

[01:37:38] Hmm.

[01:37:39] All right.

[01:37:40] Well, we'll get back in a minute to what exactly Bernard instructed Sims to do, but

[01:37:45] let's first set up people walking into this trap.

[01:37:49] So while all this is playing out elsewhere, unbeknownst to them, of course, um, Knox,

[01:37:54] Shirley, Carla, and Martha are on their journey up to see the judge.

[01:37:58] And Carla has brought green and red colored balls so they can throw them down through the

[01:38:03] center of the stairwell to communicate quickly with the down deep red means turn the power

[01:38:07] off green means you can turn it back on.

[01:38:11] And Teddy Oletunji Ofe, the graffiti artist who got arrested last week and has a busted

[01:38:16] up face now to show for it.

[01:38:18] He was left behind over his protestations to be the one who waits for the balls to drop

[01:38:23] and pass on that Intel.

[01:38:25] Um, Carla volunteered to be the one to stay behind.

[01:38:28] So Teddy could go, but ultimately Carla couldn't let Martha do this without her.

[01:38:33] Um, so to point out, I like that they, they've mentioned now, like when they,

[01:38:37] when Martha went to see Carla last season, we heard dogs in the barking in the background.

[01:38:41] Now Carla mentions that her dogs were mad that she took their balls.

[01:38:46] Um, so yeah, dogs are very linked to supply in the books because they are the guard dogs.

[01:38:52] Okay.

[01:38:53] So I like those dog references.

[01:38:55] Um, okay.

[01:38:57] So on the way up, team mechanical pauses to catch their breath in a park.

[01:39:01] And Martha and Carla have a heart to heart.

[01:39:04] Martha says she realizes she's wasted too much of her life and she can't remember any good

[01:39:09] reason for them not to be together.

[01:39:10] So you think we're going to get a flashback to what happened between them 25 years ago,

[01:39:16] AKA the same time Mary stopped being Bernard's shadow?

[01:39:18] I would hope so.

[01:39:20] Yeah, I would hope so.

[01:39:21] Are you getting worried that this whole conversation kind of echoed Marne's and John's

[01:39:26] walk down the side?

[01:39:27] It does.

[01:39:28] Yeah.

[01:39:29] Like couples don't do well in this show.

[01:39:31] Hmm.

[01:39:32] Um, yeah.

[01:39:34] And like, obvious, obviously if somebody is going to die, it's going to be Carla.

[01:39:38] Like, I think, um, I think Martha has got pretty good, um, plot armor at this point.

[01:39:44] Hmm.

[01:39:45] I do like that.

[01:39:47] You know, we've been bitching a lot about the disappearing agoraphobia, but I do like

[01:39:52] that.

[01:39:53] Carla calls her out.

[01:39:53] She's like, you didn't come out of your hole for 25 years.

[01:39:56] Now you're out all the time.

[01:39:57] Yeah.

[01:39:57] But we, we, we've talked about that.

[01:40:00] I don't feel the need to.

[01:40:01] Yeah.

[01:40:01] I just like that.

[01:40:02] She calls her out on it.

[01:40:03] Um, so the writers are at least somewhat aware.

[01:40:06] So, and then meanwhile, while they're having this talk, Knox and Shirley are chatting on

[01:40:10] another bench and Knox asks Shirley if she would volunteer to be one of the people to

[01:40:15] go outside and look around if judge Meadows agrees to this request.

[01:40:19] And she says in a heartbeat and Knox says he would too.

[01:40:22] He wants to look for Juliet.

[01:40:24] The not knowing is killing him.

[01:40:26] Juliet might've annoyed him, but she was someone he could count on.

[01:40:30] So Luke, would you want to be one of the explorers if you were in their position?

[01:40:35] Yeah, definitely.

[01:40:36] And I also think Knox says something, you know, what would you, what would you want to

[01:40:39] see at the distance?

[01:40:41] Yeah.

[01:40:41] Which again, I think is a, it's one of those nice sort of reminders that this is a group

[01:40:46] of people living in a deeply unnatural environment.

[01:40:49] Like the, the conversation between Meadows and Billings, uh, last episode.

[01:40:54] And like the way, the way, um, the way Knox says it, there's like real longing in his voice.

[01:41:01] Um, so I thought that, I thought that was really well done.

[01:41:04] I love these parks, by the way.

[01:41:06] I just, I want to go and hang out in one of these parks.

[01:41:09] They look really inviting.

[01:41:11] Yeah.

[01:41:11] Except for the lack of sunlight.

[01:41:13] Yeah.

[01:41:14] Yeah.

[01:41:15] So then while they're on the, in this park though, two faces we know from last season show

[01:41:20] up, Molly Carnes, uh, Angela Yeo and Sandy Cheebo Chung.

[01:41:25] They said they were there to help escort them up to safety as requested by Sheriff Billings

[01:41:29] because the upper people might be throwing shit, like literally throwing shit.

[01:41:34] But Molly and Sandy will leave them a couple of levels below judicial so that people don't

[01:41:39] think they've chosen sides.

[01:41:41] After all, Sandy points out she, she is a civilian.

[01:41:45] So yeah.

[01:41:46] So we saw deputy Carnes last season in several operations, like the one in which Juliet planted

[01:41:51] the PEZ dispenser and she was, uh, Caren's was also the one forced to throw appliances

[01:41:57] at Juliet when she was in the recycling shaft at the end of the season.

[01:42:00] Um, but I'm not sure which deputy station is her home because she was kind of all over

[01:42:05] the place last season.

[01:42:07] Yeah.

[01:42:08] No, I think, I think she's based wherever the plot needs her to be.

[01:42:12] Um, yeah, that's right.

[01:42:13] And I, I did like Walker's thing.

[01:42:15] Oh, so you're going to leave us alone then?

[01:42:17] Just, just when it gets dangerous.

[01:42:19] And they're like, yes.

[01:42:21] And yeah, Sandy, Sandy still has the snark.

[01:42:24] She was the former up top Sheriff's assistant who butted heads with Juliet before making amends

[01:42:29] and moving down to 105 to be closer to her family.

[01:42:32] So we haven't seen her since episode five of the first season, but she's the one that

[01:42:36] Juliet tells like, oh yeah, down deep we eat babies in each other.

[01:42:40] Um, we know, so we know she is stationed in 105, which is like the lower mids, almost the

[01:42:45] down deep.

[01:42:46] That's probably around where they have stopped.

[01:42:49] Do you think that these two are eventually going to be forced to choose sides?

[01:42:54] Everybody is eventually.

[01:42:55] I think.

[01:42:56] Which side do you think these two will choose?

[01:42:58] Do you think they'll choose the same side?

[01:43:01] No, not necessarily.

[01:43:03] Also, I'd, I'd like to, I'd like to have seen in this scene, like all four of the down

[01:43:07] deepers, like take a minute to just look at the greenery.

[01:43:11] Cause like they don't see plants.

[01:43:14] Gardens like that.

[01:43:15] Various gardens very often.

[01:43:17] Hmm.

[01:43:17] Like this should have, this should have been a bigger moment.

[01:43:19] I think.

[01:43:20] Hmm.

[01:43:21] That's fair.

[01:43:22] That's fair.

[01:43:24] Okay.

[01:43:25] So that brings us to the final act, which, um, first we get Billings radioing deputy

[01:43:32] Molly Karens.

[01:43:32] I guess she's, she's already peeled off from her escort duty and Billings asks her

[01:43:38] about the men she arrested who were helping Juliet in the season one finale.

[01:43:41] And she says, yes, they were Danny Bly and Patrick Kennedy.

[01:43:44] And why?

[01:43:45] Yes.

[01:43:46] As billing suspected Patrick Kennedy does match the description of the missing body of

[01:43:50] the fire bomber.

[01:43:51] And Billings and Hank are realizing together that Patrick Kennedy, who was shot in the

[01:43:56] shoulder rather than the chest might not be as dead as they thought he was.

[01:44:01] So I, she says judicial took them hard, gagged him and bagged him.

[01:44:05] Like, Oh, we saw that.

[01:44:06] That looked.

[01:44:07] Yeah.

[01:44:07] That looked painful.

[01:44:08] That looked, that looked deeply unpleasant.

[01:44:10] Yeah.

[01:44:12] Well, I mean, obviously we're sad to lose Mary this episode, but are we glad to get Patrick

[01:44:17] back?

[01:44:17] Well, like I said earlier, I'm not sure that we have got Patrick back.

[01:44:21] So until we see him on screen, I'm, I'm still saying dead.

[01:44:25] I need one more joke for him.

[01:44:27] I need him to maybe get that watch, even though he's not the one who has the watch in the books,

[01:44:34] but presumably he's going to be medicated out of his gourd.

[01:44:37] So.

[01:44:38] Hmm.

[01:44:39] Yeah.

[01:44:39] Yeah.

[01:44:39] Maybe that's what we'll see him like in the room next to Gloria in that long-term care

[01:44:43] center or something.

[01:44:44] Yeah.

[01:44:45] Hmm.

[01:44:47] So Knox, Shirley, Martha and Carla, they have reached level 15 where raiders are holding back

[01:44:54] a mob of protesters armed with pipes and other loose objects and blocking the way to judicial

[01:45:00] threatening our team from the down deep.

[01:45:03] So Carla throws a red ball over the railing of the stairs and it falls to the bottom where

[01:45:09] Teddy sees it and tells the team down there to turn off the power.

[01:45:12] So first of all, those balls could have killed someone down there.

[01:45:16] The way it was ricocheting.

[01:45:17] I'm going to say like to Teddy's got great.

[01:45:19] It's a good job.

[01:45:20] Teddy has like really good reflexes because he could have been completely brained by that

[01:45:25] ball or somebody else could have.

[01:45:26] I mean, it went ricocheting around.

[01:45:28] Yeah.

[01:45:29] Yeah.

[01:45:30] Um, and Knox said, he said before in a previous episode, they could only pull this turning

[01:45:35] off the power thing once, but this is not the shot that we saw in the trailer of the

[01:45:41] rolling blackout of the silo.

[01:45:42] No, it isn't.

[01:45:43] No, it isn't.

[01:45:44] And they're not properly like shutting down the generator.

[01:45:47] They're just flipping a switch.

[01:45:50] Is there a difference?

[01:45:51] I don't know.

[01:45:52] Well, there is, there is a difference in the sense that they can, they can obviously

[01:45:56] easily turn it back, back on, off and then back on again.

[01:46:01] Whereas if they, they really wanted to shut the silo down, they'd have to shut generator

[01:46:05] down.

[01:46:06] And I think that's what, that's what Knox is referring to when he says they can only do

[01:46:10] it once.

[01:46:11] Didn't they say something last season about like, they could only shut it down for so

[01:46:15] long because that, the hot water that's spurting up.

[01:46:19] Yeah.

[01:46:19] Something like that.

[01:46:20] So I'm like, how long could they actually keep the power out?

[01:46:24] Not just for that, but also presumably there's like air filtration systems or something running

[01:46:29] in the silo and they might all die of carbon.

[01:46:33] Monoxide poisoning.

[01:46:34] Mm-hmm.

[01:46:36] Yeah.

[01:46:36] I just, I just want somebody in mechanical to do that thing where you flip the switch really

[01:46:40] quickly to turn the lights on and off to get somebody's attention.

[01:46:43] To get somebody's attention.

[01:46:45] And then the entire silo goes.

[01:46:48] Yeah.

[01:46:51] Yeah.

[01:46:51] Yeah.

[01:46:51] I have questions, but okay.

[01:46:53] So Bernard comes out with the lights off and tells and says that judge Meadows isn't

[01:46:59] feeling well understatement, but he'll get them in to see her if they turn the lights

[01:47:03] back on.

[01:47:04] So Carla throws down a green ball and the lights go back on and Knox and Shirley are escorted

[01:47:09] through the crowd into the judge's office.

[01:47:12] But Martha and Carla are told to stay behind inside the judge's office.

[01:47:16] They find Sims standing over Meadows body, which is slumped in her chair with a knife through

[01:47:21] her chest.

[01:47:22] They realize that this was a setup and that the murder is going to be pinned on them.

[01:47:27] They know it looks bad, but they have no choice but to run.

[01:47:30] And Bernard encourages them to do it.

[01:47:33] Bernard tells Sims not to involve his raiders because the people of the silo have to take

[01:47:37] care of this themselves.

[01:47:39] He's going to set the mob on Knox and Shirley, but he hasn't yet.

[01:47:42] And Knox points out that they have to keep their cool until they get through the crowd

[01:47:46] as the crowd does not yet know about the death.

[01:47:49] Once they get back to Walker McClane, though, they fucking run.

[01:47:53] Bernard gives him a couple minutes to get out, then send Sims out to tell the crowd their

[01:47:57] mechanical murdered Meadows story and metaphorically light the mob's torches and hand them pitchforks.

[01:48:04] So, Bernard telling Martha and Carla to stay behind, do you think he was protecting them in a way

[01:48:11] so that they didn't get the murder accusations too?

[01:48:14] No, because when the mob catches up with them, I don't think the mob are going to be too particular

[01:48:17] about separating them.

[01:48:21] Why tell those two to stay behind?

[01:48:24] Yeah, I'm not sure.

[01:48:25] I'm not sure.

[01:48:26] Maybe Martha is, you know, maybe they are more useful with Martha's engineering skills

[01:48:34] and Carla's knowledge of supply.

[01:48:37] Maybe it's a soft spot for old ladies.

[01:48:39] Yeah, and I think also Knox and Shirley just make more plausible murderers.

[01:48:45] Yeah.

[01:48:45] Sure, yeah, because Martha and Carla are more even-tempered.

[01:48:49] Yeah.

[01:48:50] Um, it's, I noticed as they were walking in, and actually the, um, AD, the audio description

[01:48:57] points us out, as Knox and Shirley are walking through the halls in, like, judicial,

[01:49:02] and Knox seems impressed by the overhead fluorescent lighting.

[01:49:06] So I guess you don't see that office lighting down in the down deep?

[01:49:08] No.

[01:49:10] No.

[01:49:11] And I did think, like, Knox has, like, great presence of mind in the moment.

[01:49:15] You don't run.

[01:49:17] Mm-hmm.

[01:49:17] No, walk.

[01:49:18] I thought that was, that was, that was pretty, that was pretty sharp on them.

[01:49:23] But first, you know, I would have expected Shirley to be the one to want to punch, um,

[01:49:28] Sims in the face, but she actually holds Knox back from doing it, which I agree.

[01:49:31] It would have only made it worse.

[01:49:32] There's nothing that would have done.

[01:49:34] Yeah.

[01:49:35] It would, then Sims could be like, see, they punched me in the face too.

[01:49:39] Although Sims really does, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,

[01:49:42] really, really, really does need to be punched in the face.

[01:49:44] Yes, yes.

[01:49:45] When we say Bernard is the end of the morality scale, that doesn't mean that Sims is far off.

[01:49:51] No, no.

[01:49:52] Yeah.

[01:49:54] And, um, I mean, yeah, Sims has killed people too, just not, like, it would be, Bernard killing

[01:50:01] Mary is more akin to, like, Sims killing his own wife, which is never going to happen.

[01:50:05] Never going to happen.

[01:50:06] Yeah.

[01:50:07] Yeah.

[01:50:08] Bernard tells Sims that the move to impeach Meadows was unexpected and forced his hand,

[01:50:12] and he says, I believe good will come of it still.

[01:50:16] I know you were behind it, Rob.

[01:50:18] So, and then he dismisses him.

[01:50:20] And I feel like Sims is realizing at this point, like, uh-oh, I'm in trouble.

[01:50:23] But he's like, don't let them get too much of a head start.

[01:50:26] You wouldn't want to lose them, which also sounded like a threat to me.

[01:50:30] I think Sims should be fearing for his life now.

[01:50:33] Yeah, definitely.

[01:50:34] Which is not to say that I think that Sims is doomed.

[01:50:38] I could easily see a situation where Sims gets his revenge in first, to put it that way.

[01:50:45] No, I mean, yeah, I'm not saying anything to that effect.

[01:50:48] Just that, like, Sims maybe is finally starting to realize that he's been handling things the wrong way with Bernard,

[01:50:56] and he's getting on his bad side instead of back in, you know, the position he hopes for.

[01:51:03] Yeah.

[01:51:04] So, um, outside on the landing, Sims tells the crowd he knows they didn't like Meadows agreeing to meet with the Down Deepers,

[01:51:11] but she believed every citizen deserved a hearing.

[01:51:14] But, he says, those animals from Mechanical betrayed that goodwill with murder,

[01:51:19] killing her when she refused to let them open the airlock that protects the people of the silo from the wasteland outside.

[01:51:26] He says it is now the duty of every citizen to find those murderers and bring them to justice.

[01:51:32] And the crowd chases the crew from Mechanical as they chant,

[01:51:36] Justice! Justice! Justice!

[01:51:38] Which is a little on the nose, but that's fine.

[01:51:41] But also, somebody has to do a, um, somebody has to do, like, a YouTube video of that scene

[01:51:47] with the music from the Benny Hill show playing over the top of it.

[01:51:50] Yeah.

[01:51:52] Yeah.

[01:51:53] Um, yeah, I mean, I do, I prefer when we see, like, the behind-the-scenes more subtle machinations,

[01:52:02] like Bernard killing Meadows and stuff.

[01:52:04] And I wish, like, they're just making Sims, like, just to have someone from Authority doing that stuff,

[01:52:12] that's, that's what's bugging me a little bit about the movie.

[01:52:15] Yeah, it felt, it felt, it felt a little bit on the nose.

[01:52:17] And, like, I realized, and the show's done a good job of setting this up,

[01:52:21] I realized there was a lot of latent prejudice towards Mechanical.

[01:52:26] Mm-hmm.

[01:52:26] Um, but it seemed like, it seemed like the jump from prejudice to violence happened too quickly.

[01:52:36] Mm-hmm.

[01:52:37] And also, like, it, nobody has brought up the fact that in, that in this, in silo time, in showtime,

[01:52:47] like, the mayor and the judge have died under mysterious circumstances, you know, very closely together,

[01:52:55] a matter of months apart.

[01:52:57] Mm-hmm.

[01:52:57] Nobody seems to be asking that question.

[01:53:00] Well, maybe they distracted them sufficiently with everything else that's happened since.

[01:53:04] Yeah, but it seems, it seems, it seems like, like, somebody should be saying, like,

[01:53:09] all the people in authority in this silo seem to be dying all of a sudden.

[01:53:13] But you know what?

[01:53:15] Like, I am often shocked in real life when, you know, things are very clearly happening,

[01:53:21] like, oh, everyone who questions this one person is immediately fired and nobody's asking questions

[01:53:27] about this, but no, they just elect that person again.

[01:53:31] Just not to name any specific examples, but, but that's, yeah, I, people shock me in real life

[01:53:38] with how deeply they will bury their head in the sand if they think that they have an easier answer,

[01:53:44] an easier target to place the blame on.

[01:53:47] Yeah, but it is actually, it is actually still quite difficult to get people to take that next step from,

[01:53:55] I don't like you, to I'm going to be violent towards you.

[01:54:00] That actually takes some time.

[01:54:02] I used to, I used to think that more, but these days I see so many examples of where that,

[01:54:10] that is happening all over the world right now.

[01:54:13] So I don't, I think it's incredibly depressingly easy to get people to take that step.

[01:54:19] Yeah.

[01:54:20] Wow.

[01:54:20] But also, what do we think is going to happen?

[01:54:23] Because there's no way, there's no way the four from mechanical make it all the way down to,

[01:54:28] back to mechanical before the mob catches them.

[01:54:31] Well, they'll have to pull a Juliet and, and find a way to hide and move secretly.

[01:54:37] Yeah.

[01:54:37] Or unless there's like a bunch of people from mechanical coming up, meeting them halfway.

[01:54:46] Yeah.

[01:54:46] I don't know.

[01:54:47] And then what the fight starts there, they start, they have to do a barricade or something.

[01:54:51] I don't know.

[01:54:52] I was going to say though, that, yeah, I do think that the way they've mixed in the truth

[01:54:57] with the lies and what Sims says does, that does tend to make the lies more powerful.

[01:55:02] It does.

[01:55:02] For instance.

[01:55:03] It does.

[01:55:03] Meadows did say the bit about everyone deserving a hearing.

[01:55:07] That is something she said before she died.

[01:55:09] And technically the four of them did want to open the airlock.

[01:55:13] They wanted to do it to conduct experiments.

[01:55:15] But even if they got the chance to explain that, the nuance would be completely lost in the

[01:55:21] fearful mob.

[01:55:22] They're like, not to kill you, but to investigate.

[01:55:25] And they were like, no, kill me.

[01:55:26] But I mean, you're absolutely right.

[01:55:28] It would.

[01:55:29] But I don't, I think it bears repeating that Bernard set this up.

[01:55:34] No.

[01:55:34] Yeah.

[01:55:34] If you've got the good tape, why wouldn't you use it?

[01:55:38] Hmm.

[01:55:39] Because, yeah, they don't want them to explore beyond the bowl.

[01:55:42] What if they wander over to another silo that's not dead?

[01:55:45] Yeah.

[01:55:47] We're collecting martyrs now.

[01:55:49] We've not, you know, you mentioned the ones from last season, but now we've got Juliet.

[01:55:54] Meadows is a martyr for the silo.

[01:55:57] Do we think?

[01:55:59] Yeah, I worry about Knox and Shirley especially making it back down.

[01:56:03] Maybe Martha and Carla get a pass because they didn't go in there.

[01:56:08] Oh, well, I think we haven't seen this yet, but there is a, there is a shot in the trailer

[01:56:14] of like Knox and Shirley marching through IT like weapons in hand that must come from

[01:56:24] somewhere later on in the season.

[01:56:26] So I'm not saying they survived the season, but I think they'll get through the next few

[01:56:30] episodes.

[01:56:31] Okay.

[01:56:31] Yeah.

[01:56:32] Yeah.

[01:56:32] I do love how when they, when they came out, Shirley says, uh, quick, don't look scared.

[01:56:39] And Carla's like, I wasn't until you said that.

[01:56:43] Weird.

[01:56:44] They had no idea what happened.

[01:56:45] They're like, what?

[01:56:46] Things aren't normal.

[01:56:47] Why are people chasing us?

[01:56:48] Oh.

[01:56:49] All right.

[01:56:50] Any final thoughts on the episode or hopes for what comes next?

[01:56:54] I think, I think this, this episode of silo is the first time I've watched an episode of

[01:57:02] silo in season one or season two and come away with such mixed feelings.

[01:57:06] Hmm.

[01:57:07] Like there is stuff in it.

[01:57:09] I really like there's stuff.

[01:57:11] I, but I did feel, I did feel like we're getting to the, the whole plot with mechanical

[01:57:17] is being a little bit rushed.

[01:57:20] Hmm.

[01:57:21] Um, and I, I'd, I'd have liked to have seen a bit more of a slow burn of this kind of

[01:57:26] tension between the up top and the down deep.

[01:57:30] Um, you know what?

[01:57:31] It kind of reminds, you kind of reminded me of, and this is odd comparison, kind of reminded

[01:57:36] me of why I'm not a big fan of revenge of the Sith.

[01:57:39] Okay.

[01:57:40] Because the whole, my problem with revenge of the Sith is like the turn Anakin takes to

[01:57:46] the dark side happens too quickly and too completely.

[01:57:52] And like the interesting part of that movie is when he's hanging on the edge of, when it's

[01:57:57] hanging on the edge of violence.

[01:57:59] And I feel like there is, there is, there's more story that you could tell.

[01:58:04] Well, they have, it's called the clone.

[01:58:06] Clone Wars.

[01:58:06] Yeah.

[01:58:07] Yeah.

[01:58:07] Well, no, I'm talking about silent.

[01:58:09] There's more story that you could tell about this tension between the down deep and the

[01:58:13] up top before it has to turn violent.

[01:58:16] It felt, it felt like a, a sort of fork in the road that we got to too early.

[01:58:23] Hmm.

[01:58:25] Okay.

[01:58:26] Um, yeah, it's not, it's not to say I didn't like the episode.

[01:58:29] There were things in there that I really did like, but I came away with quite mixed feelings

[01:58:32] overall.

[01:58:33] Um, okay.

[01:58:34] Um, I mean, I would say for me, I think this is my favorite episode so far, but it is also

[01:58:40] at the same time, the episode I have the most frustrations with, which I've outlined in detail.

[01:58:44] I won't go back into them, which are similar to your own.

[01:58:47] Um, but I still think that this storytelling wise, this is the best episode.

[01:58:53] I just, I'm not some, yeah, some of the logic of, of the way, but it's like, you know what?

[01:59:01] I just have to say, okay.

[01:59:03] So the order says in this version of the story, the order says that you always blame it on

[01:59:09] mechanical.

[01:59:10] And of course, Bernard is going to be someone who follows the order.

[01:59:13] So that's that.

[01:59:14] And I'm just like Martha and her agoraphobia.

[01:59:17] I'm just going to let it go for now.

[01:59:19] I think we'll see how I feel next episode.

[01:59:21] You're a, you're a better person.

[01:59:23] You're a better person than me.

[01:59:24] Cause I, I, I, I'm not going to go through it again, but I think I genuinely did put me

[01:59:29] in quite a sort of negative frame of mind for the rest of the episode, I think.

[01:59:34] Okay.

[01:59:34] Okay.

[01:59:34] Well, I mean, yeah, for me, the rest of the episode was so good that, um, that's yeah,

[01:59:41] it overrides my objection to that side of things.

[01:59:44] And I'm just choosing to turn my brain off about trying to make out because you know what?

[01:59:50] It may be, it's not necessarily supposed to make sense logically.

[01:59:53] Cause we keep pointing out people are not logical.

[01:59:56] Yeah.

[01:59:56] And I mean, also, also there may be, there is more information out there that may make

[02:00:01] this make more sense.

[02:00:04] All right.

[02:00:05] So we're going to put a pin in that discussion.

[02:00:07] Um, but yeah, Bernard clearly back to square one with this whole shadow business.

[02:00:12] So we're going to be talking about that more in this week's spoiler cast, as I said, about

[02:00:16] what it means to be in that role as the shadow of the head of it and where we think that story

[02:00:22] of Bernard seeking his shadow will go from here.

[02:00:24] Now that he seems to be down to options.

[02:00:27] Um, any final thoughts?

[02:00:30] No, I think that's everything I wanted to say.

[02:00:33] Well, we'll be back here every Friday through January 17th, breaking down each episode with

[02:00:39] more mailbags in between.

[02:00:40] And we also want to hear your thoughts on the show and your theories for what's happening.

[02:00:45] Um, we will discuss these, post them to the rest of the community in separate mailbag episodes

[02:00:50] this season, which we'll be doing every episode or two, uh, depending on how we can schedule

[02:00:56] it. So send your emails to woolshiftdustpodcast at gmail.com.

[02:01:01] You'll find that link in the show notes as well as a link to the Lorehounds discord,

[02:01:05] which has a dedicated forum with separate chats per episode and a book spoiler chat.

[02:01:11] And by the way, book spoilers are welcome in your feedback.

[02:01:14] Just make sure you send them to me, not Luke, uh, or the Woolshift Dust podcast.

[02:01:19] That's fine.

[02:01:19] Uh, but then yeah, any book spoiler feedback will of course be discussed in the spoiler

[02:01:24] cast rather than the public episodes.

[02:01:26] The spoiler cast episodes are available to supercast and Patreon subscribers.

[02:01:31] And you will also find their, uh, breakdowns of the silo books and short stories and a season

[02:01:37] one spoilery rewatch episodes, extra interviews with Hugh Howey with full book spoilers.

[02:01:42] And of course these ongoing weekly spoiler casts.

[02:01:45] And I would like to welcome new silos in through Pesh K, Michael S, David B and welcome back

[02:01:52] Ron a.

[02:01:53] And I'd also especially like to welcome new stories in Sarah LCB and Nathan T.

[02:01:58] So stories in silos in are, um, that's the Patreon level that you get to new.

[02:02:03] There's also a silos in level and supercast, which is the one of the two that I recommend

[02:02:07] by the way, especially since Patreon's doing some weird pricing stuff at the moment.

[02:02:11] Um, but stories in are silos in who are also Canon Padawan subscribers.

[02:02:17] So the Canon Padawan feed is for my, the Star Wars Canon timeline podcast feed.

[02:02:22] That's where you get extras for that.

[02:02:24] Uh, you can find a link in the show notes where you can see what all the, all, all the

[02:02:29] options are, including new season pass options, which allow you to just get the silo episodes.

[02:02:36] Um, either just the book episodes or just the spoiler casts are both together in a discounted

[02:02:42] combo.

[02:02:42] So again, explore, uh, the links in the show notes.

[02:02:45] If you are curious about that, um, subscribers of course, get all the season pass stuff.

[02:02:52] Plus the additional episodes like, uh, additional, uh, Hugh Howey book and story breakdowns.

[02:02:58] Dune book breakdowns are coming after silo and, uh, Luke and I are working on our holiday

[02:03:04] special and there's some more from previous years in there as well.

[02:03:07] Yes.

[02:03:08] Previous holidays in there as well.

[02:03:10] Um, if you enjoyed this episode though, and you want to help us out, you don't need to

[02:03:15] be a subscriber if you don't want this extra stuff.

[02:03:18] Um, just word of mouth, passing this on to anyone else you think might be interested, leaving

[02:03:23] a positive review, wherever you're listening.

[02:03:25] These are small things that help us enormously.

[02:03:27] And just thank you for listening in general, whether or not you subscribe or whether or not

[02:03:32] you do any extra steps to help us.

[02:03:34] We just appreciate you being along on this journey with us.

[02:03:37] Yes, we did.

[02:03:39] So in the meantime, uh, now we're recording this a couple of weeks ahead of time.

[02:03:43] So I'll keep this brief because who knows we'll be in a couple of weeks, but David's definitely

[02:03:47] breaking down on the lore hounds with, with me, um, Dune prophecy, the weekly episodes as

[02:03:54] they release, uh, lots of other stuff happening on the lore hounds feed as well.

[02:03:58] Um, there should be a wicked one shot coming out probably shortly after this, along with

[02:04:03] some comics versus content in the works.

[02:04:06] Um, this will drop the day after the creature commandos new animated DCU series starts.

[02:04:11] So check that out.

[02:04:13] I mentioned the star Wars canon timeline podcast also properly.

[02:04:17] Howard on the network has started a new season called a few good films where they did a draft

[02:04:22] where they're going to watch one film for each of the, um, a few good men stars.

[02:04:29] So it's a film festival of other films made by the stars from a few good, uh, men, uh,

[02:04:35] ramblers rising is the current radioactive ramblings coverage of red rising.

[02:04:40] Plus they're doing, um, uh, Ghibli plus arcane.

[02:04:45] And, um, of course, check out nevermind the music for psychology meets music.

[02:04:51] You'll listen to music in new ways.

[02:04:53] I promise.

[02:04:55] Um, and it could be said on hiatus, but full of content that you can explore, right?

[02:04:59] Luke.

[02:05:00] Yeah.

[02:05:00] I mean, we are on, we're on hiatus for a bit because between recording all of these

[02:05:04] podcasts with Alicia and marking a load of essays and also my co-host Simon works in public affairs

[02:05:12] and Christmas is like his busiest time of the year.

[02:05:15] So we will be back between Christmas and new year to do our review of the year.

[02:05:19] I think that's the next episode we've got scheduled.

[02:05:23] Okay, cool.

[02:05:24] Well, in the meantime, we will see you all next Friday for episode five.

[02:05:29] And of course, any mailbag or spoiler cast episodes in the meantime.

[02:05:34] Until then, don't eat any mushrooms, Bernard feeds you.

[02:05:39] We're going to see you.