Oscars 2025 – Animated Features & Shorts + Inside Oscar campaigning

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[00:02:23] Welcome to the Lorehounds 2025 Oscar Prep Series. I'm your host, Alicia, and this episode is dedicated to the two animation categories at the Oscars, animated feature and animated short. This is the first full episode of the 2025 Oscar Prep Series. Check out the intro mini episode released a few days ago for an overview of what the format of this series will be. And if you're going to see what's going on, then you'll see what's going on next.

[00:02:46] And what all we're going to be covering. You'll find that linked in the show notes as well as episodes we've already done diving into various Oscar nominated films this year, plus links to our Oscar coverage from last year, if you haven't heard that yet. I'm going to be joined in a little bit by a special guest, Benoit Berthe-Seward of Animation Showcase, who is involved in six of the 10 animation Oscar campaigns we're going to be talking about today.

[00:03:10] But first, with a little help from some members from the community and beyond, let's talk about those other four movies that Benoit's not allowed to comment on for ethical reasons. So starting with the animated feature category, first up, and this is the one that you're most likely to have heard of, Inside Out 2 from Pixar, available on Disney Plus.

[00:03:31] It made $1.7 billion at the box office on a budget of $200 million, making it the biggest animation financial success of the year and one of the biggest financial successes of the year at the movies overall. Since there's a good chance you've already seen this one, we're going to spend the least amount of time on it. But if you haven't, it's of course a sequel to the beloved Pixar movie by the same name from 2015.

[00:03:55] The first Inside Out won the Oscar for animated feature in 2016 and was also nominated for original screenplay, which ended up going to the newsroom film Spotlight. My opinion on Inside Out 2 is that it was a solid sequel to a game-changing film. It does move the character of Riley forward, tackling puberty, and the character of Anxiety was especially important and relatable as an addition to the story. And I love the Maya Hawke casting.

[00:04:25] But the plot within Riley's head didn't have the same punch and cohesiveness as the first film. However, if you're a fan of the first film, you should absolutely catch up on this one as well. It's only an hour and 36 minutes long. There's of course always a chance that the film with the most name recognition wins the Oscar, but I'm predicting that that will not be the case this year because there are a number of other films on this list that people have more affection for.

[00:04:50] So the second animated feature nominee is also a film from an existing IP, Wallace and Gromit from the British Aardman studio. Wallace and Gromit, Vengeance Most Foul. It's a direct sequel to one of their beloved shorts from the 90s, the 1993 29-minute long short, The Wrong Trousers. The new feature length film, which is about three times as long at an hour and 19 minutes long.

[00:05:19] It brings back the penguin villain Feathers McGraw for new capers. And this is where I have to be honest that I'm just not a big Wallace and Gromit fan myself. The bumbling and insensitive types like Wallace, who's the main speaking character, just they just really don't do it for me. And I'm not really a fan of slapstick. So this is one of my bah humbug takes that I know is like right up there with the fact I don't enjoy the Muppets. Muppet babies aside. So really don't listen to me on this one.

[00:05:48] And here's one of the many glowing reviews on Letterboxd about this film. So this review is from August Keller, who gave it four stars. And he says, despite minor drama, Wallace and Gromit, Vengeance Most Foul has wit, a tight story and meta themes. It critiques technological dependency while advocating for mindful living. The complementary protagonists create a role reversal, odd couple relationship. Though it could be considered derivative, the straightforward plot feels more timeless.

[00:06:16] Plus, everything is elevated by the consistent humor, which is effortlessly yet cleverly constructed. Its variety of jokes, puns, sight gags, and parodies make a classic vaudevillian style. Although not vulnerable nor layered, the acting adds personality and timing. Consequently, Vengeance Most Foul bakes substance into lighthearted fun. Technically, Vengeance Most Foul is expressive. Through theatrical craft, its direction calibrates a playful tone.

[00:06:46] The active cinematography utilizes movement, lighting, angles, framing, and depth. Its editing is energized by sharp pacing plus a concise runtime. Cartoonish emphasis, stings, genre elements, and smash cuts enrich the soundscape. Its cast may not have much fame, but their fit is superb. Reinforcing the amusing mood, the music uses upbeat scoring, melodramatics, and a sing-along song.

[00:07:14] Its production design provides recognizable iconography. The tangible stop-motion animation remains fluid and detailed. Altogether, Vengeance Most Foul is a jolly good time. So, I obviously don't agree with all of that, but this is, I think that I am in the minority and that more people agree with August's take that I just read for you.

[00:07:37] However, there are also a number of classic Wallace and Gromit fans who find the new film a bit more soulless, I guess is maybe the word. So, Mark from the Academy of Death Racers, whom I know is charmed by animal characters in general because he's leading our animal branch there. Mark is English, as you'll hear for yourself in a moment. So, he grew up on Wallace and Gromit, but he thinks some of the charm has been sucked out of the new film for specific technical reasons. So, let's listen to what he has to say.

[00:08:07] Hi, Alicia. Thanks for having me on. Mark here from the Academy of Death Racers and from Rambling Cinema, if you're in Nottingham. I just wanted to talk a little bit about Wallace and Gromit, knowing that you have a different perspective on this, because that original trilogy of shorts has a lot of nostalgia tied up in it for me from how much I watched it when I was a kid. But when you come back and watch it as an adult, the breadth of animation within a 100% stop-motion framework is incredible. It really feels like Nick Park flexing his abilities as a filmmaker. In A Grand Day Out, you have him stop-motion animating liquids and flames.

[00:08:36] In The Wrong Trousers, he's stop-motion animating sparks when Gromit is trying to fix the trousers and the wardrobe. But then on top of that, you have these judicious use of camera movements, when often the stop-motion animation at the time would have been just locked down shots and edited into single shots. Here you have rack focuses, zooms and pans, and really key moments. And it really reminds me of Roger Rabbit, where the animation is blended seamlessly into how Zemeckis otherwise would have shot this film,

[00:09:02] as opposed to the animated elements appearing to be a completely separate entity to the film, as they do in cheaper knockoffs. Those shorts are really Nick Park proving what stop-motion can do and doing it entirely within the framework of stop-motion. It's authentic. You can see the thumbprints on Wallace's nose and the clay through a couple of shots. But it doesn't feel like digital trickery is being deployed to enhance low-budget filmmaking or low-tech filmmaking. In Vengeance Most Foul, that's exactly what I see.

[00:09:32] I see digital tricks trying to improve upon something which does not need improving, and in the process, it destroys the magic. You have those digital butterflies flitting around the garden, you have the Terminator vision of Norbert, steam rising off a cuppa and an explosion at the end. It's all extra digital elements, as if that would improve upon this incredible, loved, low-budget filmmaking. And then it happens in the camera work too.

[00:09:57] Now you have this incredibly mobile camera swooping and panning throughout these shots, but it's inauthentic. It's done digitally. It's not actual stop-motion moving the camera one frame at a time. And it accidentally speaks to the core plot of the film, probably not intentionally, where Gromit wants to make his garden with simple, organic, practical, physical work. But then Wallace comes in with digital corner cutting, and in the process, he destroys something unique and turns it into a cookie-cutter, soulless thing.

[00:10:26] Thank you, Mark, for sharing those insights. And by the way, when he refers to me having a different take, that's because I actually praised the visual side of it when I reviewed it, and I called it a marked improvement over the short from 30-plus years ago. But as he just laid it out, Mark makes an excellent point about it perhaps being too polished and taking away from what made it unique. And listeners, this is definitely something to keep in mind when Benoit and I talk about the final nominee in this category in a bit.

[00:10:56] By the way, Mark will be back as a guest later in this series to talk about the writing and international categories. So looking forward to talking to him more then. As for Wallace and Gromit, Vengeance Most Foul, do I think it'll win? No. I think if anyone is taking this category for IP-related nostalgia reasons, it would definitely be the more American, more financially successful Inside Out 2. But not that Wallace and Gromit got a full theatrical release to compare numbers anyway.

[00:11:24] If you want to see it for yourself, you can find it on Netflix. So the rest of this list is original stories, starting with animated feature nominee number three, the third of the three big studio projects. My bad. I just realized that this actually is based on a book, the 2016 book by the same name by Peter Brown.

[00:11:48] And the filmmaker, Chris Saunders, he actually discovered this through his daughter, who was a fan of this book. So a little correction there. It is interesting then that all three of the big studio films are the three ones that are based on pre-existing IP. Anyway, just leaving that there. Back to the discussion. This one, Wild Robot, is from DreamWorks.

[00:12:13] And it's the story of a personal assistant robot who is accidentally dropped on an island with no people, only animals. And ends up looking after a babely duckling that was left behind by his flock for being a runt. And together, they get to know each other. They get to know the other diverse animal species that call a silent home. And Lupita Nyong'o plays the titular robot.

[00:12:35] And the voice cast also includes Pedro Pascal, Kit Connor, Catherine O'Hara, Bill Nighy, Stephanie Hsu, Mark Hamill, Matt Berry, Ving Rhames. It's just an absolutely insane cast list. And it's really beautifully made. It's got stunning 3D animated details. It's lovely to look at. It did really well at the box office, too. It made $330 million on an $80 million budget. But the love for this movie is not quite universal.

[00:13:04] The two reactions seem to be either that was heartwarming and beautiful and I adore it. Or that was competently made, but it feels a bit by the numbers. And I regret to say that I fall into the latter camp with this one. So I wanted to make sure that you heard from someone who falls into the loves it side of things. So, Gnarls, the name we've been requested to always pronounce as a question, which will be a familiar one to regular listeners. Gnarls falls on the loves it side.

[00:13:32] So let's hear what he has to say about this film. Hello, Gnarls. Here to talk about the wild robot. Gnarls, an awesome movie that I very much enjoyed. So, I saw this movie with my 5-year-old niece, and nothing makes a children's movie slap harder than seeing it with a child, especially one who loves it.

[00:13:56] This combined with a jarring resemblance to a movie I loved as a kid, The Iron Giant, enters it into a very special place for me. In my opinion, the animation is very, very good. Like, really good. One of the best-looking animated movies I have ever seen. I also very much enjoy the design of the robot.

[00:14:20] I love the stretchy arms and the way Roz can mimic all the animals on the island. The wild robot also approaches mature topics in a way that kids can understand while maintaining a genuineness and trueness that keeps an adult mind entertained and engaged.

[00:14:40] There are several tropes that are executed well in this film, such as found family, stranger in a strange land, the law of the jungle versus the coldness of technology, and, of course, becoming true to yourself. A film essentially devoid of humanity outside of, I believe, like one scene does such a good job of portraying the human condition.

[00:15:06] I truly enjoy the character archetypes in this film as well. The corporate robot product, its internal programming in conflict with itself. A trickster fox too keen to the reality of nature to trust love anyone until he does.

[00:15:25] And the runt of a goose whose weirdness by being raised by an outsider makes him an outcast from his own flock until his uniqueness becomes an essential asset. The wild robot should win this award because it's the only one I've seen that's nominated in this category, which obviously, objectively, makes it the best one and therefore deserving of the award. Beep, beep, boop, boop.

[00:15:54] Gotta go process more Oscar movies now. Bye. Bye. I love a scatter shooting from Narls. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts. So the wild robot, it's an hour and 42 minutes long. It's currently streaming on Peacock and video on demand, but it's soon going to move to Netflix for 10 months before being moved back to Peacock. And this is also going to vary based on where you live. So definitely double check if you're outside the US.

[00:16:21] As far as winning this category, this one actually has a really solid chance. Popular Awards prediction site Gold Derby gives it the best odds. It's got that combination of a broad appeal, big marketing push, a big name voice cast. But if I'm reading the tea leaves correctly, my prediction is currently leaning toward Gold Derby's second in the odds rankings and the fourth nominee we're discussing today. And that is Flow. Flow.

[00:16:50] It's an indie animated film from Latvia. But don't worry about subtitles because this film, which features a group of realistic animals with a black cat as the main character, it has no spoken words. And the cat, which, by the way, looks exactly like a cat that I'm staring at right now. And so everyone who has a black cat at home will have an extra connection with this. And it now has its own statue in Riga, the largest city in Latvia.

[00:17:19] So in the movie, this cat ends up joining forces with a ragtag group of animals. And the capybara is the other animal that especially steals the show. And they are on a boat navigating a flooded city and continual dangers. It's just it's a very visually captivating watch. It's a tidy one hour and 25 minute runtime. And it's really it's especially captivating because the hyper realistic animal animations and interactions.

[00:17:48] So they really expertly mimicked real life animals and they use real animal sounds throughout, except for the capybara who apparently capybaras have they have high pitched sounds that are kind of an unpleasantly annoying in real life. So they used baby camel sounds for that animal in this film instead. If you're an animal lover, it's it's a hard one not to love. But its biggest fans also love it because it just it feels fresh and different than what we usually get.

[00:18:18] And one of those biggest fans is Adrienne, a member of the Lorehounds community. And after seeing her rave about this movie on the Lorehounds discord, I asked if she would record a voicemail to share her thoughts with the rest of you. Hello, everyone. It's Adrienne from Southern California. I had been waiting for Flo, Gaint's Zidabalulis latest animation masterpiece for two years now. And friends, it did not disappoint.

[00:18:46] The film, made without dialogue, is an animated survival adventure set in a possible post-apocalyptic world that somehow reminded me of Indonesia, even though I've never been there. A cat, with the help of a friendly capybara, a dog, a lemur, and a secretary bird, try to survive together in a little boat while navigating a flooded environment. What is not to love?

[00:19:16] There are beautiful scenes and some incredible music that live rent-free even now in my head. One scene in particular took on a spiritual aspect that caught my breath. Even my 17-year-old son finally admitted that he got a bit choked up at the scene. And as I was watching the film for a second there, I forgot that this was animated water.

[00:19:41] I recommend this movie for ages 7 and above due to a bit of peril and one grouchy minor character that ruins someone's day. Hey, everyone out there. Go and see this film. ASAP. Thank you, Adrienne. And I agree 100%. About it reminding her of Indonesia. I have been to Indonesia, but only to two of the islands, and they're all different.

[00:20:07] But this film had me thinking about Cambodia, which is a place that I've never been but always wanted to go. And then there are also these rock formations that look more like photos I've seen of China. And maybe that's the point. It's kind of an ambiguously Asian setting, very lush. Floating and moments of danger aside, it looks like a place you would want to travel to, which makes spending time there with the animals pleasant.

[00:20:34] Flo made a modest $15 million at the box office on a reported budget of €3.5 million. And the director, now I'm not going to say it as well as Adrian, Gience, Zilbelotis. He, with a script written by him and Matisse Karsha, they used the free open source Blender animation software to make this movie on a low budget.

[00:21:02] And they made it over five and a half years. And full disclosure, Blender Animation Studios is based in Amsterdam, and I used to work there. You can hear their director of animation, Hjalfi Hjalmarsson, in last year's animation coverage and occasionally popping up in episodes on the Star Wars Canon timeline feed. But basically, yeah, it's an indie film, low budget. And for an indie film like this to get this far, to get the Oscar nomination, that says a lot.

[00:21:30] That means it's managed to gather up recognition the old-fashioned way, winning a lot of awards along the way. Not to mention that no Latvian film has ever before been nominated for an Oscar. And now this film was nominated for two. So for animated feature and for international feature. So we'll be talking about this one again when we get to that category. I just think, you know, Oscars voters love a good narrative, and this is a great one.

[00:21:56] And they can feel like they're able to reward an indie filmmaker in a year where there's been a lot of strife with the big studios. And knowing what a big deal this is to the country of Latvia. Yeah, I think that that's a compelling narrative. And on top of that, it's just a really likable film. Flow is still playing in theaters in a lot of places, which is a great way to see it, the visuals. And it's also available to rent on Video On Demand in the U.S.

[00:22:24] And I just happened to be editing this part of this episode right now, when I saw a message pop up from Adrian saying that the date has just been announced for when Flow will be hitting HBO Max on February 14th. So just under a week from when this episode is released. Hopefully that will give a lot more people a chance to watch it and may there be a lot of momentum going into Oscar Day.

[00:22:53] And apparently there's now a cooperative board game version of the film that was released in January, which I'm dying to play. If anyone's played it, please let me know how it is. But if I'm being completely honest, Flow is actually my second favorite film in this lot. And my first favorite in this category is Memoir of a Snail, the final film to complete this category of five. But this is one of those movies that Benoit from Animation Showcase has extra insight into.

[00:23:21] So let's take a quick break and then bring him into the conversation. See you in a sec. Okay, and I'm here with Benoit Berth-Siewart, the founder and curator of the Animation Showcase. Thank you, Benoit, so much for being here with us.

[00:23:51] Thank you so much for having me. It's insanely busy for you right now. So really appreciate you taking this time. Sure, absolutely. My pleasure. Can you introduce people who aren't familiar a little bit? What do you do at the Animation Showcase? So the Animation Showcase is an initiative that was before not a company to highlight the animation, the best animation work in the world, the films, but also the talents.

[00:24:19] We started to screen animation in creative groups, in creative clubs, private clubs. We started actually with Soho House, for those who know these private clubs, to highlight the quality, the craft and all the talents that are existing in the animation industry. I started as an animator and I fell in love with my friends' and colleagues' work. And that's why I wanted to help them to promote their work.

[00:24:48] And so that's what we do at the Animation Showcase. But the Animation Showcase very slowly moved into something a bit more professional when we started to help independent filmmakers to go to the Oscars, like advising them, bringing the films to the US, showing the film to the members of the Academy. And another part of the Animation Showcase that is very specific to our company is that because of COVID, we created a streaming platform that is totally free as well

[00:25:15] for the industry folks in animation and in cinema. So that's what we are doing. And now we are very specialized in the award season. That's the biggest part of our work. And to sum up, it's a bit like a presidential campaign. You always have people campaigning, putting argument on why this person or this program is good or should be voted for. But that's a little bit the same thing.

[00:25:44] But for films, for the award season, since at the Oscars, you have 10,000 people voting. So it needs a little bit of this aspect of the work to highlight the films. Right. And so you are representing six of the 10 animation nominees this year in Oscar campaigns. What exactly does that mean to do an Oscar campaign, to be representing them?

[00:26:11] I know that you said that there's also a difference between the work you do for features versus shorts. Yes. So representing a film means that we will guide them through the process of the Oscars, knowing that the process of the Oscars is a bit complicated for the independent, the new talents. Usually the short filmmakers are very new to Hollywood, you know.

[00:26:34] So representing the film means explaining, guiding the talents and bringing the films in places where it's important for the films to be. It also means being in charge of the strategy behind the campaign, behind the marketing element, creating making ofs, all that aspect of the work. And so, as you said, you have like five feature films and five shorts in animation categories. The two animation categories, the short and the features.

[00:27:02] On the feature films, it's always very difficult to bring independent movies because you have the big studios, you know, DreamWorks, Pixar, Netflix, and they have a lot of money. They have a lot of network, lots of power to reach easily, you know, the members, but also with their platform. Netflix, for example, or Disney Plus, they are very easily in the homes of millions and millions of people.

[00:27:25] So this year, I worked on Memoir of a Snail, which is one of the most indie films next to Flo as well nominated. So we are repping this film and working with the U.S. distributor IFC Films. And on the animation side, there were no big contenders in the big studios. And this year, we have a full panel of independents. And it was a big year for us because we did the campaign on all the films that got nominated.

[00:27:55] So five shorts and one feature film this year. Yeah. And listeners will have just heard me talk about the other four features and also say that it just so happens that Memoir of a Snail and Flo were my two favorites of the year, which is interesting. I didn't even think about the fact that they are the two indie films of the year. So it just goes to show you that, yeah, we definitely need to be nurturing this less studio dominated corner of the creative sphere,

[00:28:24] because that's where some of the most interesting stuff comes from. Absolutely. I mean, don't get me wrong. I love the big studios, the big budgets, the very beautiful film that you can do with a big studio. But sometimes, you know, having a smaller budget, smaller resources, smaller teams forces you to do choices. And that's exactly what happened in both Flo and Memoir of a Snail. They had to make choices.

[00:28:48] And that also forces the system to rethink the way we can do films, because as many people said, like Guillermo del Toro, but many others, animation is not a genre. It's a medium. You can do child entertainment with animation, but you can do also very adult-themed film. You can do serious sci-fi or horror or drama with animation.

[00:29:13] And this creativity and this freedom sometimes, strangely, can be found more in the indie side than the big studio side. Yeah. Yeah. So let's talk a little bit more about Memoir of a Snail. It was made in Australia. The writer and director is Adam Elliott. It's feature length, but it's still a tidy 94 minutes.

[00:29:35] And listeners should refer back to last year when I talked with the director of animation at Blender about why animated films tend to be on the shorter side. But this one is interestingly R-rated. So that goes to show you it's not – this is not just a kid's medium, as I think a lot of people who aren't already animation fans may still think of it. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the beauty as well of the work of Adam Elliott.

[00:30:03] And for those who know a little bit about animation, his last feature film was 15 years ago with Marion Max, which also was a film that was very much not too much for the young kids. Right. Because they were like very strong themes and stuff. But again, you know, like he makes one feature films apparently every 15 years. So when you're indie, you have a lot of, you know, not a lot of time, let's say, but you have very small resources.

[00:30:32] So you have to do more things. You also have more control. And you have probably – if your previous work were famous, he won – Adam Elliott won an Oscar for Javi Krampett a long time ago.

[00:31:11] Mm-hmm. Without any judgment. And that shows a very humanistic aspect of his work. And even if it's sometimes very dark, there is a part of truth and there is a part of rawness that will, I hope, speak to people and create emotions that you rarely see in big studio films, you know, like Hollywood films.

[00:31:35] Right. So to set it up for people who don't know, just a log line, the film's plot, which is loosely inspired by Elliot's own life, follows the trials and tribulations in the life of lonely misfit Grace Puddle from childhood to adulthood. And, you know, in terms of this buying trust thing, you can see that the cast is an absolute murder's row of Australian talent. The two main characters are Sarah Snook, who people will know from The Succession, and Cody Smith-McPhee.

[00:32:06] And now I'm not thinking of any of these projects at the moment, but like when you see his face, you're like, oh, I know that guy. Power of the Dog? Power of the Dog, right? Yeah, for example. And, you know, the cast is just like Jackie Weaver, Eric Bana, Nick Cave. It's just an insane cast just distributed by Mad Men Entertainment in Australia and IFC in the US. Yeah.

[00:32:29] And I think for the Australian cast, there is a few different explanations from, you know, the few discussions I had about that with Adam is that because it's a very indie film, he gets also most of his funding in Australia, from Australia. So he has to work with the Australian talent. And I think part of the voices were recorded as well during COVID time, etc. So it was very important for him to also rely on the Australian talent.

[00:32:57] There are many Australian actors and etc. But also I know that he spent and spent a lot of time in general working, but also while working, listening to TV series without images, just listening to the voices. That might explain as well why the dialogues are so sharp and so low in his film. He has a very sensitivity, I feel, into the dialogue. But he also liked to listen to the test feature, the tone of the voices.

[00:33:24] And so he really knew very early on which talent he wanted to use on this film. So the fact that he had to use also talent from Australia forced him as well to take Australian animators in stop motion because it's a film in stop motion. Like, you know, Aardman films or Leica films. But there is no Aardman and Leica in Australia. So there are very few stop motion artists living in Australia.

[00:33:52] So most of the crew was actually part of the crew, a big part of the crew was out of school and he had to teach people while doing the film to make the film. So that's why as well you have such a very strong, different look, different vibe and different dynamism in the film. Right. Right. And I have to say, unlike and I know you definitely can't comment on any of the other films in this category, but I can. And one thing I'm not a huge Wallace and Gromit fan.

[00:34:21] People have just heard me say that. So I was a little bit reluctant about the art style at first, but I felt more of that rawness that people enjoyed so much from previous Wallace and Gromit in this. And, you know, I did get to see the making of on Animation Showcase, which is really great to just see how everything is handmade in this film. All of the characters and, you know, how it's handmade. But for me, it's always going to come down to the story.

[00:34:50] So the reason why this is my favorite one is I do tend to like darker humor stories, but this is full of heart. You've got that roller coaster of emotions going with all the twists and turns of the story. So, yeah, it was I just was really I went in kind of reluctantly, I have to admit. And then by the end, I was like, oh, well, that's my favorite.

[00:35:12] You have to get in his world because he he he really put the character through a lot of mess and dark stuff. But and there is something he says, I'm not sure I will be able to quote him properly, but he's he often says, if you are not if you don't end up finish my film being a wreck, emotional wreck. I felt as a director and it's kind of what you can feel in all these films.

[00:35:38] But in there is not only darkness for for gratitude. It's not free. It has a reason and there is rewards, you know, also in the film. So it's it's it's very touching. The thing I like also, like when we say we said earlier, animation is not the genre. It's a medium only looking at stop motion films.

[00:36:01] If we compare, for example, Leica or the work of Shadow Machine with the Pinocchio or the work of Hardman with the Wallace and Bromick and the Chicken Run and the work of Adam Elliott. You can see a huge spectrum of different style just in stop motion. Like the Leica look that is so sharp, so polished that almost it would look like CG so much is polished. And you have a full range of difference until, you know, Adam Elliott, which is at the other side, not being bad.

[00:36:31] You know, it doesn't mean it's bad that it's so simplified or, you know, because it would put more space to the story. And also because he had a very, very small budget, he often tells that he had to make choices. For example, animation costs a lot of money because you have to do 24 images per second or 12 images per second.

[00:36:53] And one animator every day or week can only do, you know, one, two or three seconds of animation. That's why it takes so long to make a stop motion film. And because walking is so expensive and he had such a small budget, he had to cut the legs of the character. And that's why most of the characters don't have legs and they just move like muppets and stuff like that. I didn't even notice.

[00:37:18] Yeah, because it works, because the story drives you, because he has to put the full focus on the story. And those limitations actually open doors on many other possibilities. And that's what also I like in animation, you know, those questions of creativity and possibilities are very different in live action. And that's what makes animation so special to me. Right. Yeah.

[00:37:43] And I have to say, as someone who watches a lot of 3D animation, as most modern animation fans do, I really noticed the difference with this being stop motion is just that the depth of field felt so real. You know, it felt genuinely like these were actual characters inhabiting our world because they are, you know, they're being moved around by people. But yeah. Absolutely.

[00:38:07] Another thing that Adam Elliot says often is that, you know, by making animation, basically his work is to manipulate you. He has to make sure as a magic trick to make you believe that those clay characters have a soul. And the fact that you can see the actual material that he used, the clay or the different material. The wire hair. Exactly. Makes it more real because it's not a drawing or it's not CG.

[00:38:37] And his big work is to make sure the emotion feels real, the story feels real. And so he doesn't hesitate in Q&A to say that, yes, he tricks you. Yes, he manipulates you because that's his job. And if he makes it well, then the story passes through you. And that's the best reward for him. Right. And if people want to watch Memoir of a Snail, I think it's on video on demand now in the US at least.

[00:39:06] I am not sure of everything. I think it depends on your country. Exactly. There are different deals depending on the countries. But I think I heard recently that they were going to put it back to the cinema with a special bonus. I don't know if I'm even allowed to talk about that. But it will go back because of the Oscar nomination in cinemas as well.

[00:39:27] And I think in the UK, because I'm based in the UK, it's actually been also in cinemas with the distribution company Modern Films. It's a bit around the world in France as well. It has been released a few weeks ago. So, yeah, it's actually been screened in cinemas and other places. Right. Right. It was in the cinemas here in Amsterdam. But I think I don't I'm not sure if it still is. But, yeah, Google is your friend. So, yeah, it'll be it is widely available to watch.

[00:39:57] Just depends where you are. OK, let's take another quick break here. And when we get back, we're going to talk about the animated shorts category and what exactly is involved, what you need to know about campaigning at the Oscars. See you in a sec.

[00:40:26] OK, so turning our attention to the shorts. So I told you that I ended up putting this in an order where it's from my least favorite to my most favorite. This is very personal. Everyone that I've spoken to about this shorts category has given me a completely different ranking. And I've heard every single one of these shorts ranked as first. So it's just really a matter of personal taste. And, yeah, I mean, they're all obviously that's a good sign that they are all worthy of a nomination.

[00:40:56] That there's just depends on where you're coming from. So we're going to start with yuck or in French, berk, which I love, by the way. Yes. It sounds like exactly what it means. Yeah, berk. The kids are saying berk. And, yeah, in Dutch, you might say like vachlek. And it's also I think that's. Vachlek. I love it. But so this one's 13 minutes long and it was written and directed by Loic Espouche. Maybe you could say that better.

[00:41:28] And so this is obviously, you know, I'll ask if any of these are available, but it's very different. Right. The distribution between a feature film like Memoir of a Snail, which is going to theaters and these short films, which are kind of more dependent on festivals around the world. Yes. Yes. So there is a huge, you know, business model around the feature film because people are going to cinemas.

[00:41:50] They are paying tickets, which then allow the cinemas to leave with the distributors and obviously also the authors and the producers of the film. For short films, because, you know, cinemas are not putting together shorts often in cinemas or sometimes they put it before feature film. Very rarely in big cities and other cinema. The business model is very different. And and sometimes even we can say there is no business model. There is no real money to be made.

[00:42:19] Those films are sometimes not profitable. They are here to test things, to show skills, to perhaps move to feature films. But in the case of a film that has been doing a lot of festivals like Yuck, I don't remember the number of selection they had and the number of awards. But they can be sometimes also screened in TVs, bought by TVs. So that can create a little bit of a revenue.

[00:42:44] And in the case of Oscar nominated films, they are also distributed in different ways, a little bit like feature films. So every year you can see in cinema this Oscar nominated compilation when different company, you know, different cinemas can together. Traditionally, it was a shorts international putting that together.

[00:43:05] And it actually makes a really good box office like the previous one when at 3.5 or 4 million dollars. So they are being looked at. And also those films sometimes are on Vimeo on demand or VOD platforms. So you can also find them in Vimeo on demand.

[00:43:26] And the three films, Yuck, Beautiful Men and Wonder to Wonder, so Yuck, Beautiful Men and Wonder to Wonder, are on the Vimeo on demand of the French distributor Mieux Distribution for a few pounds or a few dollars. So it's easy to watch them. Right, right. So again, Google is your friend with all these shorts. And I know, so they do the theatrical program in the U.S. Do they do it in the U.K.?

[00:43:52] So the compilation of the Oscar nominated is trying to expand to Europe. The biggest market is North America for sure. Right. But there is new initiatives every year to try to spread a bit wider. It really depends on the culture of the country and how it's easy to export them. Also, the difficulty is like the nomination is announced quite late and even more this year because of the disastrous wildfires.

[00:44:20] So the time between the nomination announcement until the ceremony is very short. And most of the people would want to see the films before the Oscars to do the predictions. And so the time to organize each other, to sign the contract, to send the DCPs and the files to the cinemas is very, very short. It's a big race. So the biggest focus is in North America. But I know that there is attempt to spread in other countries. So it really depends your countries.

[00:44:49] You just have to go again on Google on some websites with Oscar nominated short compilation, theatrical release. They will put all the cinemas in your city so you can easily find if you have a cinema. Those films are, except if you have a home cinema at home, but even, you know, even if you have a home cinema at home, they are great to see on the big screen because they are made for the big screen as well. Even if they are short films, but they are really enjoyable.

[00:45:15] Some of them like Wanderer to Wanderer who have exquisite quality and details. And, you know, even all of them should be watched on the big screen. Right. And for those who don't have that available, I know like Shorts TV has in the past done, you can buy a subscription just for the various Oscar shorts categories. But yeah, I do love going to, you know, like a shorts night at a festival or something where it's like a sampler platter of all these different flavors. Absolutely.

[00:45:45] So, yuck, it's just to summarize it while vacationing at a camper complex with his family, Leo giggles with his friends at all the gross kissing they see the adults doing around them. While Leo tries to ignore his own real feelings on the subject. So I found this one adorably realistic. It was interesting to see the behind the scenes because they cast real kids and kind of let them improv a bit. Yeah, it made it so real when you hear the voices even. I don't know.

[00:46:14] I mean, I am French and the film is French. The voices are French. So for me, immediately it's like it was sweating realism. You know what I mean? It was so real. It brought me back to my younger years when I was in camping and, you know, your kids becoming teenagers, things changes and you have emotions. And it starts to, you know, trigger you, make you think. And this realism in the dialogue changes everything.

[00:46:45] There is a feature film as well who uses this technique of, you know, basing the animation on the kids, making the kids free. More than just like animating everything and asking kids to dub a voice. It's chicken for Linda and the same as a feature film. And you can feel the realism. And it's so, so real and impactful. But in Yuck, you know, what I really like is it may look like an adorable film for kids.

[00:47:12] But as an adult, you do get caught by the funny aspect of it, the deep aspect of it, because it's only it also question, you know, emotions and mockery. And, you know, having your secret god and, you know, all those themes of around the becoming a teenager and having the birth of emotion are really well packed in the film that feels so obvious.

[00:47:42] At the end of the film, you know, everything feels well done and obvious. And that's what I like when I choose a film to work on. I need to feel this obviousness. I don't know if it's an English word. It needs to feel, you know, all together, well put together. And I thought this one was very, very clever and touched me also personally, aside of the technicity. I did.

[00:48:08] I loved how they were all obsessed by what they claimed to be disgusted by, which I think is definitely something that some adults can take on board too. And I liked, there was like this touch of magical realism in it that, which kind of made me feel that childhood vibe because it's not all about magical realism. But basically when people wanted to kiss, their lips start glowing. And I just couldn't help but imagine what if it were like that in the real world? Like that would sometimes be useful, mostly very awkward. Absolutely.

[00:48:38] Absolutely. And that again is the magic of animation because how can you talk, how can you show on screen emotions and the desire of kissing someone or the desire, the personal desire in an animated film that needs to be watched for all audience? It's so complicated. So obviously this magic creativity decision of the director to make the slips glow and become almost phosphorescent is so clever.

[00:49:06] It's also very funny to watch, to be honest. Yeah. Yeah. So that's a very charming one. Definitely. That one's kid-friendly. The next one, not so much kid-friendly, is Beautiful Men. And this is a Belgian-French-Dutch production. The languages are Flemish and Turkish. So it is mostly the creator, Nicolas Kepens. He is Belgian, you know, from the Flemish-Dutch speaking part of Belgium. This one's 19 minutes long.

[00:49:35] And it's about three balding Belgian brothers who travel to Turkey to get hair transplants, but it doesn't go as planned, putting their befuddled brotherly bonds to the test. And yeah, this one is a much more mature story in comparison. It does leave some questions open at the end with dark implications. Like I was wondering if someone got pushed down the stairs. Pushed down the stairs? I don't think so. I think there is a...

[00:50:05] I don't know, actually. But it's just like this absurd, you know, films. Only reading this synopsis, you know, without even watching the film, I really wanted to watch this one. This is not a synopsis you would see again in like the Hollywood Studios film, you know, like. And hair transplant, we get sometimes bombarded on ads on the internet, I mean, for men or whatever.

[00:50:28] And that's so clever, again, to use this theme and reality of many people who are, you know, questioning their own masculinity with becoming bold or older and putting it in a stop motion film. That is so clever and so different from anything I've watched. And also what I love in that film is the scenography, the intelligence of direction, the framing. Everything is so well thought from the beginning to the end.

[00:50:56] It's a little bit like I was blown away with Parasites, the way the scenography was in that film. In Beautiful Men, you feel watching an A24 film in stop motion with a weird story. And that's also another example of how animation can be so creative, you know, by exploring very serious theme with a lot of quirkiness and humor, but also kind of absurd, dark point of view.

[00:51:24] And this one is very special to me as well. So, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's a, I'm pretty sure that this director will do other things like bigger formats with this very specific style. Right. Well, I really liked about it that, you know, you see it's using this unusual circumstance, you know, getting hair transplants in Turkey as it's like both a brotherly bonding trip, but also what brings the tensions in their relationships to a head.

[00:51:54] You know, they all want the same thing. And what happens if they can't all have the same thing? And what is it? Why do they want the same thing? You know, they want it for different reasons. And I, and I do also believe in this director, especially because the making ofs were so delightful and just the silly, entertaining insanity of these making ofs where he has one of the actors wearing like a paper mache or something head. And that's what he does.

[00:52:21] And that's what he plays, just going on adventures, little adventures together. It just shows a certain level of taste that means that's why he can create something unique. I think what I love working with Nicolas is that he, he's so creative and he thinks very differently from traditional, traditional ways.

[00:52:44] So when, when we do a campaign at the Oscars, we do ask our filmmakers to share more with the industry because it's the industry voting for the Oscars. So the industry members of the Academy wants to know how did they do the film? What's the behind the scene? What was the challenges? Technical things like the bonuses we had on DVDs, you know, when we're buying DVDs on Pixar and stuff.

[00:53:10] And some of the filmmakers will do show the craft and go deep, deep down in the technicity, you know, dissecting everything and talking about technical choices and talking about their story. Nicolas, it doesn't do that. He stay in his characters. He stay within the story and it shows his passion to, to continue, to continue the delirium of his story until the end.

[00:53:36] And that's very, it's very touching. It's very funny and it's contagious. You can, you can, you totally dive in his world without him explaining, explaining anything by just meeting him, being silly with his character and continuing his story and his world. And that was, that really, really impressed me. I was, when I, when, when he showed me his first making of, he was a bit like, can I do that?

[00:54:05] And I was like, I don't know, but I love it. You just did it. Yeah. Let's put it live and let's continue. And same, you know, like when they had the news of, of, because the first making of was in phase one. The phase one is when you get qualified to the Oscars, you're between 100 films and you're trained to go to the phase two, which is the shortlist where you have 15 out of the 100 selected by the Academy.

[00:54:31] So the phase one is just like him and his character continuing their story and their friendship. And that's just the continuing of the story in a live action with this big puppet head in a real size, human size. But when they got the news, they got shortlisted.

[00:54:50] There is this old delirium about Hollywood, which makes it even more funnier because you would not expect those three bold brothers who had hair transplant in Turkey to think of going to Hollywood. So the clash between the two is so funny. And they push. They go to a Hollywood video rental store. It's absurd. I love it. With a karaoke and they hired a limo, like this big limousine to have a party.

[00:55:20] You're just like, what am I watching? You know, what am I watching right now? But it's so funny. And now that they are nominated, I have no idea what they will do. But I think they will do something else, probably in Hollywood. I don't know. I hope they will do something. And I can't wait for them to put it online because it will be super funny. And I think it put a smile on everyone because the people who are used to doing the campaign, they are used to seeing those elements. We publish the making of, etc.

[00:55:48] And this one is just so different and so refreshing that I think it just put a smile on everyone's faces. Can people find the making of on YouTube? Yes. So we had a special collaboration this year with Annecy Festival, which is kind of the Cannes Festival of Animation, the biggest animation film festival in the world. And any film that got selected to Annecy can publish their making of, their special making of on the Annecy YouTube channel.

[00:56:17] So you can find most of them there. At least, you know, the Beautiful Men and Wonder to Wonder and Yuck making of, if I am not wrong, are on the Annecy channel. But also if you follow their Instagram accounts of those films from the directors or the producers and they do publish those making of in there. Okay. Okay. And yeah, content warning.

[00:56:44] This is Beautiful Men is one of two of the animated films, both with Dutch collaborators that have full frontal male nudity, which has a lot of jokes going on the Academy of Death Racers. But, you know, for people who grew up with a certain 90s Dutch cartoon, Pernodoperno, this is nothing, which maybe explains why Dutch people are like, eh, nudity, whatever. Absolutely. And there is a year, I remember, the year of The Flying Sailor and my year of Dix.

[00:57:13] I had those films in my showcase. Oh, right. And there were a lot of also penises, to be honest, shown in those films, which is not what probably animation people are used to doing. You know, I expect, or even like general audience watching animation, they are not expecting to see Willys, you know. So, and I remember after the end of, because I go to Pixar and DreamWorks every year to show the collection of films that I rep.

[00:57:40] And one of the animators left the room telling me, wow, a lot of penises this year, Benoit. A lot of penises, which made me laugh. Well, that's also what animation can do as well, you know. Why not? Yeah, yeah, exactly. As you say, it's a medium, not a genre. Exactly. But the next one is back to kid-friendly again, a Japanese animated short called Magic Candies, 21 minutes long.

[00:58:06] And it's directed by Daisuke Nishio and written by Baeke Hina. And it's inspired by a Korean picture book called Magic Candies. And this one was produced by Ptui Animation, which some people are already nodding. If you don't know that name, you probably know the names One Piece, Sailor Moon, Dragon Ball. So it's a huge Japanese animation studio. And just to set it up, Lunar Kid, Dong Dong buys a bag.

[00:58:34] He at first thinks his marbles, but discovers their magic candies that allow him to talk to objects and beings he's not otherwise able to talk to. I think this one I discovered in the late part of my research. And I was very surprised as well. This is, I would say, in anime style, but in CG, but that looks like stop motion. And so it's very different from what we are used to seeing from this studio.

[00:59:01] And Daisuke Nishio is actually a director who directed a lot of the Dragon Ball original and Dragon Ball Z. So he's known for other things. And this one has really touched me because you can feel this culture, you can feel this anime style and this way of thinking animation that is so different from the Western Europe or America. But also with so much differences.

[00:59:28] And what is also touching in this behind the scenes story is that it's a huge collaboration with South Korea and Japan, which are two countries that have history and things like that. And listen to our Pachinko coverage for more on that. Yeah. Yeah. And that's that story with a moral at the end and everything. Again, it felt like a full package that was obvious and really touched me when I saw this one.

[00:59:58] Yes. I think this one, I love it for the charm and the heart. It's really, you know, I don't want to spoil it because I definitely recommend watching it. But, you know, I think the key in this summary that I wrote is that it allows him to talk to objects and beings he's not otherwise able to talk to. So it's just every candy kind of reinvents how that works in new and touching ways. It just, yeah. But also it's not going to leave you sad at the end. Absolutely.

[01:00:28] Beautiful moral. Yeah. And the next one is on the more, I would say it's kid friendly, but it's on the more mature side and thematically. And that is the Iranian movie In the Shadow of the Cypress, or I'm going to attempt it in Farsi Dar Say Sar, something like that. And that's 20 minutes long. And this one is directed by Hussain Mollayemi and Shirin Sohani. And it was produced by Barak Animation Studio.

[01:00:56] And the summary is, a daughter lives with her father who suffers from PTSD. When a whale beaches near their coastal home, the tensions in their relationship come to a head, resulting in an epic gesture of love. Yeah, this one has made a big impact, I think, in Annecy. And also when the film was touring with another collection of film from Animayo, a festival in Spain, Canary Islands.

[01:01:21] And a lot of people, a lot of legends of animation from Disney really, really connected with this film. You can feel the old 2D craft and all in a good way, like the traditional 2D pushed in a certain extent. And with so much subtility and the designs and the themes and everything is very sensitive.

[01:01:46] And the themes, you know, the PTSD theme is very, very strong, very impactful in this film. And what I like as well in this film is the people behind the film. It's like two Iranian, we know that Iranian industry of animation is very, very small. They have very, very limited resources. They spend more than six years, very few people in their small studio to work on this film.

[01:02:14] And it shows as well that you can do things, you know, if you're motivated and you know your craft. Last year, there were another Iranian film, Our Uniform, by a director called Yegan, who did all her film for probably 100 or 200 euros, you know, just buying fabrics and doing things. And she got nominated to the Oscars. So Iranian animation in the very, very indie part of it seems to be growing.

[01:02:43] So very touching film and the theme as well, very touching people behind the film. And it's why it's important that it's nominated for an Oscar, too, because that just gets more attention. And as you say, it builds when people get these recognitions, whether or not they win, it builds a sort of trust that people are willing to invest in them making more. Absolutely. Totally.

[01:03:05] I mean, the Oscars at the end of the day is a platform, you know, is a platform to highlight and celebrate craft and to highlight profiles and to show new stories. So getting nominated is already winning. Right, right. Yeah. And this one, this so I have this in my second ranking for this category. And I actually at first I thought it was going to be slow. It starts at like a slow pace, but then it actually gets quite harrowing by the end.

[01:03:32] And I didn't realize until someone pointed it out to me afterward, but there are no words spoken the entire time. Yeah. I mean, again, the back to the medium of animation, there are so many things that you can communicate with body language and all this tradition of the minds, you know, all the cartoons as well are very expressive with the exaggeration of the bodies. That's what the style of animation in this film.

[01:04:02] But it shows how movement and scenography can communicate things. Yeah. Yeah. That's something that is very also specific to this film. All the emotion and the messages that could be communicated with the animation, the colors, the scenes. Right. Right.

[01:04:50] Yeah. And I think that's, you know, I think that's a lot of things to think because basically you are kind of God and you have to create everything and being God in your own world. You can, if you're not focused, you can do too many things and take a useless decision. And the films that are, I think, working well are people who, even if they can do everything in their world in this empty space, they know exactly what they want to do.

[01:05:20] They know exactly or more or less the color of the things, the design of this character. And they would take the decision that would make this story communicated to the audience. But yeah, this is extremely long to make an animated film. Right. Yeah. I love the art style of this one. It is quite simple, but it has an elegant simplicity to it. Yeah. It's very subtle and elegant. I totally agree. Yeah.

[01:05:46] And just because I had to look this up afterwards, it's In the Shadow of the Cypress. I'm like, there is not a tree in this film. So I'm obviously, I only know the barest things about Persian culture, but apparently for Iranians, the Cypress is the tree of life symbol. It's a symbol of immortality and beauty. So I think by in the shadow of the Cypress, they just mean in the shadow of this sort of Persian ideal. Is that what you take away from it? Well, actually, you know what? I think I'm learning that from you.

[01:06:14] So this afternoon, I will call them and I will ask definitely because it's a, I never, I never wonder. I never asked myself this question, but I'm curious to know now. So I will, I'll ask them, I will tell you. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. All right. And I'll let listeners know as well. And so that brings us to the last in the category, my personal favorites. And if listeners are wondering, is it dark and weird? Then congratulations, you know, my taste.

[01:06:40] Um, so wander to wonder is it's a Dutch, British, French, Belgian production in this case, emphasis on the Dutch. And yeah, so there are a few of these where, you know, I'm listing all of these nationalities together. That's common in this category. That's common in like international films category. And, um, you might notice that French aside, it's often smaller countries that are pulling their resources kind of. Yeah.

[01:07:09] And, uh, the, the, the number of country co-producing also shows that you, you need so many people, so much people involved as well. So the co-production can help you finding different talents. Uh, the film, you know, has, uh, English voices. I think Nina lives in England, but she's Dutch and there are like, um, the distributor is French. And I mean, there are many different, you know, culture and countries also collaborated,

[01:07:35] but also because in different countries you can find, uh, institution and national funding system. In France, we have a lot of them. So if the film is partly made in France, you would have French government funding system that would help finance such film. Such film costs a lot of money, even if they are short to make. Yeah. I know from, um, working at blender that, you know, they're often trying to get help from the Dutch film funds and there's all these rules, you know, you brought it up before with the Australian funding.

[01:08:04] You need to represent local ideas, uh, employ local people, things like that. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and so the, the writer and director, yeah, it's Nina Gantz. She is Dutch, uh, as you said, lives in the UK. She's a daughter of a Dutch actress called Luce Luca, who, if you don't live in the Netherlands, you probably won't know who that is, but some Dutch people are like, Oh, um, the language it's 14 minutes long. And the language of this one is in English. And this is actually her followup on her.

[01:08:33] She had a short film called Edmund, which won the best animated short film award at Sundance. And BAFTA in 2016. So if people like this, they might want to look up that one as well. But the summary for wander to wonder is set in the world of an eighties children's TV show called wander to wonder Mary Billy bud and Fumbleton find themselves stranded in the studio after the show's creator passes away with no one to guide them and food becoming scarce.

[01:09:00] They press on creating increasingly bizarre episodes to keep their audience entertained. And I should say that these three characters are like miniature, you know, pixie size. We're living in a real size world. That's what also makes the film so special. They are like those Timmy stop motion, uh, character living in a real size world, which also makes the film special because most of the time when you work in stop motion, you miniaturize everything.

[01:09:29] You make everything, everything smaller. So it takes less space, you know, but in her case, she had to create those, um, small size character, but still shoot in real size, uh, worlds, which made it much more complicated, you know, to handle. But, um, this film also is nominated for the BAFTA for this year's BAFTA and really, really blowed me away technically, visually.

[01:09:55] And in the tone, I was like totally blown away with what I was watching. Um, totally worth watching in cinemas as well. I've had the chance to watch it in different, uh, size screen by going to pixel dreamworks and, and makes a big difference as well. Yeah. Huge achievement with this film. Yeah. I mean, um, this one, by the way, content warning, this is the other one with the animated penis, uh, but, and there's also some animated gore too.

[01:10:24] Um, but I mean, and it's just, it's, it's dark, but it's, um, you see these three different characters who have three different personalities and how they're all dealing with what is for them an apocalyptic situation. Just, yeah. And you see them like degrading over time and it's just really well done. And they're recording over the old tapes of the prior show. So you see the juxtaposition of, you know, when they used to be happy and putting out a

[01:10:50] broadcast in this desperate attempt to continue their lives after their major. Yeah. The input of the old cameras or the old videos is very clever. You know, uh, it creates a rhythm in the film and, uh, yeah. It's, it's, um, uh, it's a film as well. That, uh, is interesting to watch multiple times. Some of them you, you can easily do that because you would discover new details, new things.

[01:11:19] Every time you watch the film, you would go deeper. And for those who have access to those making of all the, um, the animation showcase for those who are on the animation showcase, there is a video that Nina against the director recorded the one minute video, uh, a cold message from the director where she explains why she made this film and why she had this tone that is so weird because, uh, she explained in this video that she was taking care of the person in palliative care.

[01:11:48] And, um, after a few, few weeks, few months, this, this person passed away and it was, she was herself dealing with her own emotion while writing the film. And she discovered that all the other people around, you know, this person that passed away when we're dealing in a different way with emotions. And you can really feel that in the, in her film, you know, like the way people behave,

[01:12:13] uh, in her, in her film is, is very different, but also even if it's tackling like a very dark subject, there is this kind of silly and funny aspect of a film that will just give you a smile and make you smile. And, um, again, that's a very refreshing film. Um, I think it's very strong. Yeah. Yeah. I, I, yeah, I am rooting for it. We've got a few strong Dutch contenders

[01:12:38] in the shorts categories. So that's true. And also in the live action, I think with I'm not a robot and they are very strong, um, Dutch, you know, short, uh, talents this year, the Oscar. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so I think a lot of people would be surprised now there's always been some sort of a short animated category. It used to be called cartoons, uh, for a long time,

[01:13:02] but I think a lot of people, we realized that the feature Oscar, uh, award for animation didn't, wasn't implemented until the 2002 Oscars. So are you seeing a change, uh, like a growing respect for animation in the award season overall? It's a very complicated, uh, subject. And I think, um, the Academy, um, you know, had to,

[01:13:29] to, to, to make space for animation for a different reason, probably before not enough animated feature were produced per year to create a full category, but with the arrival of the big studios, uh, I think the very first film that won, what wasn't it Shrek or something like that? I think it was Shrek. So it, uh, to, to give a space of idea of how they started to do this category

[01:13:53] before the films had to compete against the live action. And it's quasi impossible when the Academy is mostly, uh, uh, populated by members that are working mainly in live action, obviously to win or to get nominated next to so many live action being produced. So it was important, I think, to celebrate as well, the animation craft, even if animation is not a genre, it's, it's, it's a medium,

[01:14:19] but also there is so much specificity to those animation and some diversity that I really appreciate the fact that there's this, uh, feature category. The feature category changed a few years ago again, because before, uh, the Academy was only allowing, um, animation, the animation branch to vote for the nominated film in that category, the animated feature, which kind of gave, for many people,

[01:14:48] it gave space to more indie films. You know, a lot of Jacky's movie, the distributor of Miyazaki, uh, had all the other independent films, uh, distributed in the U S had more space, uh, before, uh, the change of the role a few years ago, the Academy decided to open the vote, uh, in the first phase. So from the qualified film to the five nominees to the entire Academy, which for many, uh, gave more power

[01:15:15] to the big studios because the big studios are more in touch with the live action people, the actors doing the voices and they have more money for the marketing. So the, after this change of role, we had a lot of big studio films, uh, nominated and less indie, but over the last few years, you know, I did the campaign on muscle, the shell, I did the campaign on flea. I helped a little bit for our dreams. We can see the indies coming back, uh, for sure. And it's, it's nice to see. Um, so yeah, it's a very,

[01:15:43] very special category for sure at the Oscars. Yeah. And I'm noticing also, um, particularly on the shortlist, but it used to be, you know, only Disney gets the, or Pixar, you know, the later evolution, another Disney junior, um, they get the best picture nominations, but now we're seeing more and more that, uh, a wider variety of films from a wider variety of countries are getting also recognition outside the animated category, especially on the shortlist. We're seeing more in international

[01:16:12] and docs and writing categories. And of course, music's always been strong for them, but yeah, it does feel like there's more respect for, I think the Academy is evolving, uh, seeing Parasite again, winning best picture, which is not an English, English, uh, speaking movie where the, what was a huge, you know, impact and change. And I also, I was in the room, uh, when Parasite

[01:16:38] won and I remember as well that because the, the director was not speaking English at his speech and the Academy was starting to be, the ceremony was a bit too long. They put the mic down to tell him the speech is finished, but it was the speech for the best picture. Usually the Academy doesn't stop the, the, the speech. I mean, the producers, not the Academy, it's a producer put the mic down and you saw all the room standing up and said the mic, the mic, because they wanted

[01:17:04] to hear what Bon Joong-ho, the director had to say. And, and this change of mentality is, is really nice to, um, uh, experiment and to witness at the Academy. And I hope this change of spirit will also come slowly to, to the animated categories and the smaller categories to bring more diversity, uh, again, and more visibility to other, other types of films. Right. Right. Um, and so do you think you, you know, as we talked about at the beginning,

[01:17:34] you're working on the Oscar campaigns for these six films we just talked about. Do you think that it's different for animation versus live action or documentaries? Yes, there is a real difference in the sense that, um, in animation, we have, uh, uh, communities, very strong communities, you know, festival focusing on, on animation, uh, fans and geeks of animation, but we also have

[01:18:01] studios. So for example, when we campaign, we are trying to touch members of the Academy and VIP and important people in this industry, but in the live action, they are all spread. You know, they are not gathered in one studio. They are shooting in different places, et cetera. Whereas when you go to Pixar, there are probably between 70 to 80 members of the Academy. So when you screen the film in Pixar, you have this hub of people working on, even if they're working on different films in this space, those people who talks the same language, you know, as you, because I am an

[01:18:30] animator and who have the same passion and love. And that makes the campaign very specific and very different. Uh, I, I believe, uh, also it's very driven by, um, the craft more than the famousness, you know, like in live action, the talents, the actors, you know, Timothée Chalamet, Mark Robbie, or other people would probably lead as well, the campaign with their own persona in animation,

[01:18:57] except if you have like famous voices, but we, we, we rely more on the craft and the beauty and the story. And that makes the, the angle of the campaign as well, quite different sometimes, but there are things that are the same as well between the two, let's be honest. And, uh, yeah. And, um, are there differences between when you're, uh, running campaigns for features and shorts, other than of course, the distribution that we talked about? The money. The money, right?

[01:19:25] The shorts, they don't have much money. So it's very, it's very different. We also know that for members of the Academy, uh, um, it's difficult to watch all the categories and all the film they have to watch in the first phase, you know, because in the first phase you will have all the film that's submitted to the Academy to watch. So you would obviously focus on people that, you know, have been nominated in the past or working in shorts because they would be probably more motivated

[01:19:55] to watch, uh, shorts. And, uh, I am extremely careful with the filmmakers that I accompany to, to be reasonable, to make sure that our actions are making an impact and not for them to spend like thousands of dollars to pay a $10,000 full page in variety ads. You know, uh, this is totally different and we are really trying in the short to be, uh, efficient, concise, but also to be very

[01:20:20] genuine, you know, this, again, these shorts have probably more freedom because they are not under financial pressure of big studio that would require you to do this film about this or this film about that. So we lean back into the genuine voice of the author and, and those making a formula are very, very important because it allows you to know a little bit more about the story. It allows you to know a bit more about how they make technically the film, but also it makes you,

[01:20:48] it makes you meet the talent behind those films in animation faces of people who work on the, on the film are not famous. And the academies is not only rewarding film. They are rewarding people and their crafts, you know, best costume designer, best production design, best actor, actress. Uh, so because in animation, we don't know the face of the people working on that. It's important to present the talent to the members of the industry, to the voting members and making

[01:21:17] off and Q and A's allows that. Right. And that is, I do think curated spaces like, uh, animation showcase, which unfortunately the screening room is only, um, for people who have a connection to the industry. But, uh, when I see something pops up in the animation showcase screening room, then I'm like, Oh, well I'm being told by Benoit that this is worth paying attention to. So I watch all of those things. And otherwise it's just the sheer volume out there. Who knows where to begin?

[01:21:46] Yeah. It's very important for me and for the team working with me at the animation showcase to create well, not only because we believe those films are worthy of awards or they, they might be, it's not, it's not my prediction to the Oscars. Some of them we do put in the animation showcase, knowing they will struggle probably to get nominated. But if we put them in the animation showcase, it's because we believe they should be watched and we believe it has something special to be seen.

[01:22:14] And, um, I'm being very careful not to, with the animation showcase platform, not to create, um, this endless feed scroll, even in the animation showcase at the moment has more content than usual, uh, with the year after year content accumulating, but we are trying to create really curated things to make sure that it's watchable. You know, you can watch the entire, uh, if you really like, what we do, you can watch the entire category in one year. It's doable. You know, it's not,

[01:22:43] you're not bombarded with thousands of content. Um, yeah, that to, to us, it's very important. Yeah. And are there any other animated films that did not get nominated or films in other categories that you want to shout out this year as favorites? Yeah. I think one of them, I slightly talked about it earlier in this podcast was Chicken for Linda, which was so different from everything that I've seen over the last, you know, few years in animation

[01:23:13] space. Uh, the style is so distinct and so different from everything I've seen, but most importantly, the tone, the dialogue and the story so, so, so different, so refreshing to watch. Again, it's a film that exactly as you said earlier, like Memoir of a Snail, you need to, to hold on for a few minutes to really dig in that world because it's not usual to see this kind of design and, and dialogue.

[01:23:41] But if you do the effort for the first few minutes and really dig into the world, you would be surprised from, from what you see. And it's really a good hope for the future of animation. Another one that is probably more big studio that I really liked, uh, was piece by piece. Um, uh, this, uh, uh, documentary biography of our Williams biopic, which was kind of looking like big studio

[01:24:10] because it was made out of Lego, but what was talked in, in, in the film and discussed, you know, they discussed about synesthesia. I don't know if you know that, but you know, this, uh, this capacity of linking, uh, sound with colors and form like you see in Ratatouille or in Fantasia, uh, this, uh, creative genius of Faroulians, but not translated, um, in a very blunt way. It has a lot of sophistication.

[01:24:36] It talks to adult and to young audience, and it's very approachable, very watchable. It's not a complicated, uh, author, um, documentary animated doc, like Flea, which I love. Right. It's not accessible to everyone. I believe because there are very strong things, uh, in piece by piece. It's very grand public as we say, all audience. And I think it is pushing the boundaries of what doc can do, but also

[01:25:02] pushing the boundaries of what animation can do by going into more doc approachable style of film. And I was also very impressed by piece by piece. Yes. Yeah. It's great to see more animation in the documentary categories too, because I am, I have to admit that documentary is often like the last category that I'm watching the films in. Um, but the fact that we're seeing more inventiveness in the way things are presented, uh, in animation and other ways as well, just is really making that a more

[01:25:30] exciting category. Absolutely. And, and since you said it a few times, I'm just gonna tell people when you say flea it's F L E E as in run away. And this was a big contender in animation and documentary and international. Yeah. You had the history called three, uh, nomination first time in the Oscar, um, a few years ago. Yeah. Yeah. Like two, two, three years ago, I think. Yeah. Three, three years ago.

[01:25:57] Definitely worth checking up if you're interested, uh, checking out if you're interested in like what the possibilities of animation are beyond what you normally think of with, you know, say Pixar or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for giving me an hour of your time during what I know is an insanely busy time for you. So, uh, thank you for all the insights that you've given us into the entire Oscar process and these films in particular and, uh, best of luck with the campaigns.

[01:26:25] Thank you so much. And, um, I'll keep listening to your podcast that I'm discovering and, and, uh, and see, uh, and connect with the community at, uh, AODR and everyone there. Right. Yes. And we also have a, we invite you to join the Lorehounds discord too. Absolutely. Yeah. I would love that.

[01:26:43] All right. Thank you, Benoit. Thank you. Bye-bye. Thank you again, Benoit for all those insights. Uh, you'll notice for the shorts category, by the way, that I didn't really predict winners and that's because this is, uh, it's notoriously unpredictable in the shorts category, but with the BAFTA nomination next to this nomination, I feel comfortable calling Wander to wonder the front

[01:27:12] runner. Although gold Derby, which I mentioned at the beginning of the episode has beautiful men in first place. Um, if voters get squeamish about the cartoon penises, then yuck could be the one to take it according to predictions, but really honestly in shorts, it's anybody's game. Um, I did want to call out a few of my other favorite animated films of the year. I will keep bringing it

[01:27:36] up until y'all listen Mars express. Uh, you guys, I mean, if you are interested in science fiction, it is, I keep calling it, you know, blade runner meets scavengers rain. It just has the philosophy. It has the action. It has like the interesting future concepts. It just has something for everyone.

[01:27:59] Mars express, uh, French animated film, uh, Ultraman rising on Netflix is also, it was one of the ones that people thought might get a nomination and I think it would have been well worthy. Um, I'm not an Ultraman fan myself. Like I think this is my first Ultraman experience because I don't know, it's, I was always aware of it. It just wasn't like, didn't call my name, but I heard so many good things and this does feel like a really fresh take on this kind of story in general. Um,

[01:28:29] I also really liked the Japanese film, the imaginary, which is about imaginary friends and, uh, whether they can or should exist beyond, you know, the confines of a child's childhood. Um, and I also really liked, you know, speaking of these animated documentaries, Pelican Blue is a Hungarian documentary about a group of people in the nineties who made counterfeit tickets so that

[01:28:58] people could travel from Hungary once it opened up, uh, throughout Europe. And it's just one of those documentaries. It's actually a pleasant watch. It's not so harrowing as many are. Um, it's not that widely available yet. So do look out for when it will be available near you. I'm hoping it's going to get a wider streaming release or something soon. So it's more available. But anyway, those are some of my recommendations. Mars Express, Ultraman Rising on Netflix,

[01:29:26] the imaginary, which, Ooh, yeah, the imaginary is also on Netflix and Pelican Blue. Um, do you have any thoughts on any of these films or other Oscar nominated films, then please send them to Oscars at the lorehounds.com. Uh, voicemails are especially welcome. As you heard in this episode, it's just really fun to sprinkle them in. So you become a part of our coverage next up in this Oscars 2025 prep

[01:29:52] series is going to be an episode all about the Amelia Perez controversy. What exactly has been going on with some insight from the communities most affected by it. And also watch out for a Silmarillion stories coming this week on the lorehounds feed. And of course the season two, episode five severance breakdown, which is posted in the separate lorehounds severance feed. Um, you can explore the link tree

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[01:30:46] their a few good film series and nevermind the music is talking psychology and music. Most recently with some episodes about, uh, maybe we have been too hard on auto tune. Now, as always, with the help this time of the sunshine song from the children's music pack, um, we'd like to call out our discord server boosters who make our discord a more fun and functional place. Thank you so much

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[01:32:28] Collie S, Ilmariel, and always last, Adrian. Thank you all for listening. See you next on the French side of Mexico. The Lorehounds Podcast is produced and published by The Lorehounds. You can send questions and feedback and voicemails at thelorehounds.com contact. Get early and ad free access to all Lorehounds Podcasts at patreon.com slash the Lorehounds. Any opinions stated are ours personally

[01:32:55] and do not reflect the opinion of or belong to any employers or other entities. Thanks for listening. Hey, everyone. David here. Severance is back. The Lorehounds are partnering with Properly Howard, to bring you in-depth weekly coverage of Season 2. Join me, John, Anthony, and Steve as we unpack every

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