Oscars 2025 – International + Adapted & Original Screenplays

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[00:02:05] Hey, quick note from future editor Alicia before we get into this episode. The Independent Spirit Awards aired last night as this episode is being released, so stick around until the end after the outro music for an update on the highlights of one of the most important and one of the last two major Oscar precursors, and what that might mean for the race overall. Okay, let's get into the episode.

[00:03:15] And then, let's get into the episode.

[00:03:58] We'll see you next time. We'll see you next time. We'll see you next time.

[00:04:19] And then, let's get into the episode. The episode is full of song clips and sound analysis. And there's a special spotlight coverage of Conclave, which could be the dark horse for winning this year, as well as an episode dedicated to the documentaries, which this may be a case if I watch them so that you don't have to.

[00:04:49] And also, a live action short episode, which was a lot of fun. We use an emotion mixer to evaluate the stories. I really love the live action short category. But now, let's talk global cinema and writing with Mark from Brambling Cinema. So welcome, Mark from the Academy of Death Racers. And listeners who listened to the animation episode will recognize your voice from your Wallace and Gromit feedback.

[00:05:19] Thank you for joining today. Thanks for having me. And you're based in Nottingham. And do you want to tell us a bit about, in addition to being a Death Racer, which is, of course, how we know each other, do you want to tell us a bit about Rambling Cinema? Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So I've set up Rambling Cinema in Nottingham as a venue for as diverse a pattern of foreign language films as I can manage to exhibit to try to diversify the kind of exhibition that gets shown in Nottingham.

[00:05:45] So aiming currently on a monthly basis to show in different venues across the city, often in a place called Carousel, but then moving around to some other places as well, showing, yeah, as many different countries worth of foreign language films as I can. And at the minute, it's just me running it, but I've managed to link up with a couple of different communities to do so along the way. We have Joyland coming up in March with a South Asian trans activist coming to talk about her experiences. And then later... I love that film. I really like that film. Absolutely.

[00:06:15] It'd be really interesting to hear someone talk about it with some real lived life experience, rather than me trying to suggest that I can represent anything that's happening in Joyland. And so, yeah, it's going quite well. And then we all have a... In a couple of months' time, we have an academic who's just written a book on The Vanishing from the 80s coming to talk about that. So that'll be fantastic. Okay, cool. And I'll put a link in the show notes to where people can find out more about that for anyone who's interested.

[00:06:42] I know, by the way, my co-host for the Wool Shift Dust podcast is from Nottingham. He lives in St. Andrews, but he's from Nottingham. Oh, yeah. If people think the accent sounds familiar. Nice. Yeah, next time he's down there. Yeah, so how's your death race going? My death race is going terribly. I am so far behind the curve on all of this stuff. I think I've seen a total of 11, maybe 12 of the 50. Of the 50.

[00:07:11] Yeah, of the 50 so far. None of which are shorts. So I haven't even been able to catch any of them yet. So it's going very badly. I'm hoping that next year is going to be my return to death racing in full power. Okay. Well, yeah. No, I understand. I'm a bit behind, although I did finish my Oscars death race, at least. Oh, congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. And thank you for prioritizing some of the films we're going to be talking about today.

[00:07:37] So we're going to be talking today about the international film category and then the two writing categories, original and adapted screenplay, although actually in the reverse order of that. And our spoiler policy overall, as I was saying, you know, it's the same for every episode. We're not we don't want to spoil the films. I assume a lot of people listening have not listened to these films.

[00:08:02] And really, I want to give you more just context for if figuring out whether or not you might want to watch these films. But we do also want to be able to talk about certain plot points that are related to any points that we want to make. So we'll navigate that together and figure it out. But we're starting with international film, formerly known as best foreign language film from 1956 until 2020.

[00:08:30] And this one, I don't know, this is one that people think might eventually phase out because we're seeing more and more international films in other categories. What do you think? I'd hope not to see it gone because you could say that for other aspects as well. You could also say that animation is no longer quite so restricted to animation alone. So, yeah, no, I wouldn't want to see it gone. I'd certainly like to see more international films popping up in other areas that it's less segregated.

[00:09:00] I do like that they're lessening language requirements. Like I was I did a deep dive into the Dutch submissions for this award. It's just out of curiosity. And I noticed that one was disqualified because they spoke too much French in the film and it was supposed to be a Dutch film. And I think that would not happen today. It would not be disqualified for that. Obviously, Amelia Perez is in here. Yeah.

[00:09:23] Yeah. Certainly not on the language requirements of the Oscars in general, as opposed to the language requirements of the voting body of the Dutch alone. It was interesting to see the I believe it was the Kazakh nominee from last year that passed requirements, passed language requirements, etc. to come in, but they hadn't had a proper adjudication process that was Oscars compliant in the previous year. And so it's nominated this not nominated. Sorry, it is selected this year after having been rejected last year. Okay.

[00:09:52] So that's interesting. Yeah. So it is this is an interesting category in terms of the way things are nominated. So basically, there is a body within each country that is the selection committee. And they have to go through, as you say, this official selection process to pick their submission from their country. And then from that, there's a short list like in other categories. And then from the short list come the five nominees.

[00:10:20] And then the Oscars awarded to the nation rather than the filmmakers. And this gets tricky because, you know, first of all, we have the one submission per category often leaves out great films. And then we don't always agree with the selection that the country has made. One that people are complaining about this year, which I actually kind of disagree with, is people are upset that India chose La Pata Ladies instead of All We Imagine Is Light.

[00:10:50] Have you seen either of those? I've seen La Pata Ladies. I've not seen All We Imagine Is Light. I understand the sort of the so I currently run a bit of a community group cinema, which has a large amount of older Indian people in the audience. It's not not rambling cinema is part of a different thing. And they often are looking for films with a particular tone.

[00:11:15] And of course, Bollywood films being as disinterested in a singular tone as they are. And I'm liking to bounce around quite so wildly between dance numbers and action scenes and sort of broad comedy and sudden violence. It can be hard to find something which is hitting a very particular beat. But La Pata Ladies feels exactly, it feels on the nose perfectly what it is that that audience is looking for.

[00:11:38] So I could see how that is reflective of the kind of voting body that they're looking for, that La Pata Ladies could well have snuck through on that kind of basis. Yeah, well, I understand why people want All We Imagine Is Light because it is more raw. It is more what you would think of as awards beaty and feels more, you know, like someone took a camera on the street and filmed real life. Whereas La Pata Ladies is more of a commercial production.

[00:12:03] Although I have to say it was surprisingly feminist and surprisingly critical of government corruption. From what I expected going in, given it was the official Indian selection. I mean, it could well be either film you're talking about. There is my understanding. OK, OK. Well, I mean, All We Imagine Is Light even more so because I can understand why Andy was squeamish about that when there's like sex scenes and, you know. But my hot take is I actually like La Pata Ladies better.

[00:12:33] Really? I know that this is not what most people will say. Yeah, I know that All We Imagine Is Light has had a lot of love over this season. But it just feels All We Imagine Is Light. There's a rawness to it, which is great, but it doesn't feel as fully realized to me personally. Interesting. But I understand. Yeah, I understand. That's a very hot take. And I'm also I'm upset with more upset with the Dutch selection committee, which chose it's called an English memory lane in Dutch.

[00:13:02] It's called the trip back. And they chose that over what, in my opinion, is like the a million times better film Hardcore Never Dies. So memory lane is about a couple who takes a road trip as the woman develops Alzheimer's. And then Hardcore Never Dies is about two brothers in the 90s during in Rotterdam. During the time when this hover music that's like hard dance music is really popular.

[00:13:32] And it's just kind of about their relationship. And it's just a million times a better film. So just putting it out there. If you're going to watch a Dutch film this year, watch Hardcore Never Dies. I'll look it up. But this brings us to our first film, which. OK, so the problem with the films nominating, you know, the countries nominating their own films. Is that some films are going to be suppressed.

[00:14:01] And Iran is particularly notorious for this. Their official submission this year was In the Arms of the Tree. I don't know anyone who's seen it. I can't comment on that film at all. But what they definitely did not select is the Seed of the Sacred Fig. So that's the German submission instead. I'm going to try to say the name in Persian. Danie Angire Mabet. Sorry, I apologize to any Farsi speakers.

[00:14:32] This is a two hour and 48 minute long. There's chonky films in this category. And this is the second chonkiest overall after The Brutalist. Because of the difference in tone that you get over the course of it. I know that you've talked about your spoiler policy, so I shan't go into detail. But there's a shift in the tone of this film towards the back end, which makes the length feel all the more noticeable. Hmm. Okay. I see. I didn't find that.

[00:15:01] But also, I had the interesting experience of, I was watching this. Okay. And so just to set it up, Iman, an investigating judge on the revolutionary court in Tehran, grapples with paranoia as nationwide political protests due to the death of a young woman intensify. And his gun mysteriously disappears, making him distrust his wife and daughters. And as I started to watch this, I was struck.

[00:15:27] I was like, oh, this is reminding me so much of this film from 2020 that just has been stuck in my head ever since called There Is No Evil. I was like, it's grappling with a lot of the same themes and stuff. And so I looked it up. I'm like, oh, it's the same filmmaker. Duh. So it's Mohamed Rasulov. And There Is No Evil is an anthology film. So that's, yeah, it's different shorts together.

[00:15:52] And because of that, I wasn't surprised about the tone shifting because within that, you know, the tone did shift a lot. And he's also before, you know, his other most famous film is The White Meadows from 2009. And that's more of an allegorical film because he used to try to talk about what he's upset about in Iran through allegory. And The White Meadows was the last time he tried to do that because he got arrested anyway. So then he was like, all right, fine. Gloves off.

[00:16:21] And he started to be more and more open about this. And then when The Seed of the Sacred Fig came out, it was selected for the main competition at Cannes this past year. And once that announcement was made, he was sentenced to eight years in prison, whipping and a fine. And so this is when he took his, you know, unedited film and escaped to Germany and completed the film there.

[00:16:49] And that's why Germany is representing him. So, yeah, it's quite the story. And it is great that it was within the rules for Germany to step in and do that because otherwise this film would not be here. Absolutely. Yeah. So that someone can have a platform for this. Yeah. So this list, by the way, it's not ranked as I've often ranked others, this international list. But this is one of my favorites.

[00:17:18] It was it didn't win the Palme d'Or, but it did take home five other awards at Cannes. And the fictional narrative, it's combined with real images from the protests in Iran over, you know, the headscarves. And I'm sure you've heard all about that over the past couple of years. What are your thoughts on this film? I know it's been a while since you've seen it. It has been a while since I watched this one. But it's the use of actual footage that makes it really interesting when it does take that narrative shift in the latter stages.

[00:17:48] Because the use of documentary footage, of real footage, brings such an immediacy to the violence which is happening and to the political dissidence which is so bravely being expressed. Compared to what I would say is quite a different tone in the later stages where things become somewhat less real and somewhat more, I guess, a bit more allegorical in the way that you would say one of his previous films was.

[00:18:17] Right, right. That's true. There are some literal pitfalls. Well done. Yeah, I like his films because I think that they capture the nuance of the characters very well. And that's always what I'm most looking for. And for instance, like the mother to her daughters, she seems like this, this real hard ass, always telling them no about things. But then you see when her daughters aren't around, she's constantly advocating for them to their father, to other people.

[00:18:47] Behind their backs, sort of. And yeah, it creates this sort of complex family interdynamics where she's acting as the shield between the father and the daughters. And that ends up hitting her from both sides.

[00:19:29] Definitely. I think that's a good quote about this, the fig and how the life cycle of the fig. Yeah, exactly. Well, this one is available on video on demand if you want to watch it for yourself. And it did also get a BAFTA nomination in the international category. I'm going to call out the BAFTA nominations. Now, the BAFTA ceremony is going to air between when this is recorded and when this is released.

[00:19:52] So I will come back at the end and talk about whether any of these films we've talked about so far have taken home BAFTA awards. Because that does, I mean, I would say the BAFTAs don't directly influence the Oscars, but definitely it's in the whole soup of precursor awards that people are looking at. Maybe not an influencer, but a signifier of where this is going. Right, exactly. Yeah, because voting closes in a couple days as we're recording.

[00:20:23] And then, okay, so this brings us to the next one. Amelia Perez from, submitted by France, two hours and 12 minutes long. It's about a trans cartel boss who disappears for a sex change operation and then comes back to try to make amends, pretending to be someone else with the help of Lawyer, played by Zoe Saldana, and a lot less cooperation from ex-wife Selena Gomez. And I already did a whole separate episode about the controversy around this film.

[00:20:52] It's the most nominated this year. It was formerly the favorite to win this category. It's now ranked second most likely to win. It also got 11 BAFTA nominations, also talked about the music in the music episodes, and definitely going to be talking about this film more in other categories, including later this episode for writing. But what are your thoughts on Amelia Perez and all of that? All of the discourse, shall we say.

[00:21:22] The thing that was fascinating to me, I only come to this recently. So I've only seen Amelia Perez in the last couple of days, having, of course, been aware of the many controversies over the last couple of months as its profile has grown and issues with the star and such have arisen. Not to mention what's actually in the text.

[00:21:42] So the thing that was amazing to me when watching it is that you don't even really need to talk about the controversies to talk about how much this film just isn't very good. And I can't believe that. That's what's crazy to me is that you take all that aside, which I don't think that you should. But if you were to remove all of the controversies and not consider them, then it's just quite a boring, tropey film filled with two dimensional kind of stereotyped characters.

[00:22:12] Terrible songs. I'm sure that you talked about that in some depth during the music. I bet that you did. With every single character existing solely as they relate to Amelia Perez, rather than as people as their own right, filled with these narrative dead ends that aren't going anywhere. It's just it's just not an especially good film, not to mention the way that it's shot.

[00:22:33] And I can't believe that there has been this huge swell of support for it within critical circles, clearly with the number of nominations that are open. But the recent controversies with with tweets, etc.

[00:22:49] are kind of a shame to me because I would have been interested to see if it had stood on its own two feet as it stands without any controversies sort of weighing it down, whether or not it would have done well or whether or not it would have ultimately not done that well in the in the winds. Of course, Netflix has a long history of doing fantastically well in nominations and actually not sticking the landing when it comes to the big awards, certainly for best picture.

[00:23:14] And I would have been interested to see if this if Amelia Perez could have managed that without all of these controversies. As it stands now, it seems a lot less like. Mm hmm. Yeah, that was something that was brought up in the controversy episode by Dina and Halvery, who, you know, they they're Mexican and they are coming in from it from the perspective of like, well, wait, let's ignore the tweets and let's get back to the real problem here. You know, so if we don't talk about this and how do we avoid repeating this?

[00:23:43] But again, yeah, the whole episode about that, I'll refer you back to that. But my question for you, Mark, is do you think if France had instead selected, say, the Count of Monte Cristo, just to put any old random film that they should have selected out there? Do you think that Amelia Perez would have gotten nearly as many nominations? Yeah, that's a good question.

[00:24:07] I guess other it's also doing well in other awards shows which aren't contingent upon the French selection for the best international film category. As you mentioned, it's done very well in BAFTA nominations, which isn't contingent upon French selection for best international film. The French, I guess, have a checkered history when it comes to selecting sensible films for this category. Famously, Portrait of a Lady on Fire is an omission.

[00:24:35] I wasn't happy with last year's selection either, but I know I'm in the minority there. They seem to miss more often than they don't, it appears, the French selection process. But I don't think it would. I think it would have ended up with this huge number of nominations either way. The support behind it seems to long predate whether or not the French committee was on board. Yeah, well, at least it wouldn't be in this category.

[00:25:04] And I think the Count of Monte Cristo would have been selected for this category if it had been put forward. I don't know if there are any other French films that you think should have gotten their attention instead. Not that I can think of from this year, to be honest. As I mentioned when talking about my racing credentials this year, I am far behind. Okay, fair, fair. Yeah, I really like the Count of Monte Cristo.

[00:25:28] I am partial to the story in general, but this is a really great adaptation of it in terms of just, yeah, the filming. It's just, it's incredible to me that the filmmakers on that haven't worked on a production of that size before. Because it's so epic in terms of locations and costumes. And the acting is just all on point. It's a very well done film.

[00:25:53] And since we're talking about French films, neither of these had any shot in hell of being selected. But my other two favorite French films of the year are the animated sci-fi film, Mars Express, and the horror with a puppet vampire, The Vorderlock. So I recommend looking up those if you're into sci-fi and or horror. I recommended Mars Express.

[00:26:19] Anytime it comes up, I call it Blade Runner meets Scavenger's Reign. And The Vorderlock, I recommended it to anyone who likes Nosferatu. Excellent. I'm all over The Vorderlock. Yeah, it's one of my favorites. It's silly, but also deep. And it got me to go and read the novella that it's based on in English and then in French and then watch the other adaptations of that novella.

[00:26:49] And it's my favorite out of all of those. Awesome. But okay, so Amelia Perez, its chances of winning this award seem to be sinking, which is raising the chances of a film that a lot more people would like to see win the awards. I know you haven't gotten a chance to watch this one yet. It's still only in theaters. There's I'm Still Here, or in Portuguese, Allende Stau aqui. And that's the Brazilian submission, two hours and 18 minutes long.

[00:27:17] And it's in 1971, while Brazil is in the throes of a military dictatorship, Eunice Paiva begins a lonely battle to learn the truth behind the disappearance of her husband, former Congressman Rubens, while trying to keep her family together. And this one was directed by Walter Salas from a screenplay by Murilo Hauser and Heiter Lorega.

[00:27:45] And it's based on a memoir written by Marcelo Rubens, who is one of the characters in the film. He's the son of this family. And so it is based on a true story. Now, I know there's some minor controversies around it in terms of the fact that Salas is one of the richest filmmakers in the world. And sometimes there's controversy around him for that.

[00:28:10] Also, Marcelo, he, the real person, had an accident that left him paraplegic. And they did they hired an able-bodied actor. And there's some controversy around that. But overall, I would say huge groundswell of support. We talked about this in the Amelia Perez episode. Do not mess with the Brazilians when they throw their weight behind something. Do not underestimate them.

[00:28:38] It's probably going to come out on demand in early April. I know people are hoping for earlier because it's not available everywhere right now in the theaters, including not here, although I did get to see it. And I know you don't have much to say about this because you haven't been able to see it yet. But first impressions, thoughts? I mean, the thing that comes to mind immediately is that it's coming out in the UK next week.

[00:29:01] So for anyone, any UK listeners, I think I saw that being advertised at my local cool person cinema earlier that it's coming out next week. It's a shame that this is the one that I've not seen because it sounds like just for my personal taste, this is probably going to be the one that I like most out of five. Which is also the case probably for original screenplay later on, as we'll discuss. Yeah, really looking forward to this one.

[00:29:31] The Brazilians seem to have had a really good run for me over the last couple of years. Anytime that they have a film nominated, selected in this category. So they tend to be some ones I really like. Shout out to Edge of Democracy from way back. So yeah, looking forward to this one. Yeah, we're going to be talking about this one again for acting and Best Picture, those upcoming episodes. It did also get a BAFTA nomination in this category, by the way.

[00:29:55] But yeah, if you have thoughts about this that you want to send in another voicemail to talk about when we get to Best Picture, then we'll love to hear it. We'll do. Yeah. As far as me, I quite like this one and I'm happy for this one to, I think this will win this category. I'm quite happy for it too. The other one I guess I would be rooting for is the seed of the sacred fig in this category. Yeah, it's harrowing.

[00:30:22] It's supposed to be harrowing, but it's engrossing, very well acted. The cast is great in the way they work together as a family because it's very much about the family. They really play well off of each other. And from your perspective, where it stands in getting foreign language nominations in other major categories, as we were talking about before, is this one where you think it is an outlier for it to have these individual nominations?

[00:30:51] Or do you see this as a trend going forward where more are getting nominated? I think this will be a trend going forward. We'll see more crossover nominations. I think we've been seeing that and I think that's only growing. And we're seeing, you know, I talked about in the introductory episode that we're seeing in general just more open-mindedness. Like this is, we'll talk about the substance later in this episode, but this has been a great year for horror,

[00:31:18] which is not something I never thought that I would see two horror films with a combined nine nominations. So, and Heretic was also seriously in contention for actor, I would say. Could have been, yeah. So I think that in general, there is, part of it comes from the fact that now there's a more international contingent within the Academy.

[00:31:42] I think that plays a role with a wider variety of tastes, but also, I suppose, bringing in younger filmmakers too affects that. So I think we're getting a lot more interesting nominations. I think personally, I think this is a mostly, obviously it's not spotless, but I think this is mostly a great year for nominations. It's interesting that the diversifying of the Academy's voter base appears to be with an effort to aim towards younger viewers.

[00:32:12] And the taste of younger viewers skews more towards international films. The existence of, I don't know, K-dramas, for example, being quite as popular as they are among young people is an example of where this is going long term. And maybe there's a generational gap in subtitles. Like I know that it's now common for, I watch everything with subtitles, but I also had some hearing damage last year. But I know more and more people who watch everything with subtitles regardless.

[00:32:38] And, you know, my parents are almost allergic to it, but they know now when I come, they're like, okay, we'll put subtitles on. But they're not, whenever I suggest a foreign language film, they're like, is it dubbed? Well, even taking the prevalence of subtitles being used on entirely English language films aside, you're now seeing more and more blockbusters which are contingent upon subtitles. Do you need subtitles?

[00:33:04] Black Panther 2, any of the Planet of the Apes films, they all are very contingent upon subtitles in a way that you weren't really seeing this time 15, 20 years ago. I mean, I guess I suppose science fiction has more often been that way, like Star Wars, you know, there's, because I remember being at a going to a Star Wars movie and being like, oh, it's going to be an original language and not dubbed good because I was some I was abroad.

[00:33:29] I was in Switzerland, luckily, because I forgot about the fact that they do, you know, have a lot of other non English, which they call basic within Star Wars languages. And then thankfully, yeah, there are French subtitles. I can read those. So this is this shows how outside of the loop I am on Star Wars. We're getting so off topic here. I'm just interested. Now that's typical. Is that is that typical of more modern Star Wars stuff where there will be alien languages?

[00:33:57] Oh, I mean, it depends on the filmmaker. But yeah, actually, overall, I would say, yes, this is the case that there's pretty much always there are always characters who don't speak basic, which is English. And yeah, I mean, going back to but maybe with like Chewie, they didn't put subtitles. And now maybe they're more likely with like Jabba the Hutt, for instance. Or yes, original characters, too. I stand corrected.

[00:34:26] You don't want to open the Star Wars. I will go all the way off based on that. Okay. So this one, I know you hate the next film and it's going to make it kind of fun to talk about. I don't hate it. Excellent. Well, you set it up well then. And then I'll be able to. And then you'll tear it down. So this is The Girl with the Needle. It's from Denmark. So in Danish, it's it's Pien med Njolen. And it's an hour and 55 minutes long.

[00:34:55] And it's available on MUBI or Video On Demand. And it's directed by Magnus von Horn from a screenplay written by him and Lina Langebeck. And it's basically so Magnus von Horn. He's lived in several different places. At one point, he studied in Poland. And a few months after he arrived in Poland, he was brutally robbed, apparently, which resulted in him becoming interested in violent people. So just keep that in mind as we talk about the film itself.

[00:35:25] It also premiered at Cannes in competition. And it is filmed in a stark black and white, which I think you probably I doubt you have any problem with this with the photography, right? No, not at all. I thought visually it looked really fantastic. Yeah. It's set in 1919, where a young woman begins working as a wet nurse at a secretive adoption agency for disadvantaged mothers, but grows suspicious of the woman who runs the operation.

[00:35:53] And this is kind of a spoiler, but it's part of the premise. It's very loosely based on the true story of a Danish serial killer named Dagmar Overby. And yeah, it's so bleak. It's so intensely bleak. And I just have to give you every sort of content warning. Like we talk about we talk about the Paquilla scale in the Lorehounds podcast. And the Paquilla scale is kind of measuring the level of violence, both physical and emotional.

[00:36:23] And this is off the charts, off the charts. Marilyn, do not ever watch this movie. You will hate it as much or even more than Mark, maybe. But go ahead. Why avoiding the later plot points in the film? Absolutely. What is your issue with this film? Shockingly, not the violence, emotional and physical as it is. Shockingly, that isn't something which I find to be a particularly difficult thing to watch within a film like this, which is aiming at being bleak.

[00:36:51] It's achieving that goal with a plot. Yeah. The problem that I found with it was a protagonist who I just could not get past the level of cruelty that she displays at different moments, which are not related to the violence. That's what's kind of interesting to me. So that was something that I wouldn't consider to be a spoiler because it's within the first. Yeah, you can talk about the husband. Yeah, absolutely. With the husband. So her husband has disappeared.

[00:37:18] And in fairness to her, her husband's disappearance causes her a huge amount of hardship where she is ejected from her home and is very much struggling to survive and forms a relationship with another person. The husband comes back and she is rejecting her husband for this new relationship that she's formed with a much richer man. And I'm not against the notion of her having difficulty now essentially having two relationships at the same time when she didn't think that her husband was still alive anymore.

[00:37:48] Right. And he also came back with a horrific injury too. He has these horrific... Yes, absolutely. He has these... They treat it like the Phantom of the Opera when he first comes through. It really is aiming at the horror of the injuries that he's suffered during World War I.

[00:38:01] But her complete disregard for his physical well-being, his mental well-being, what's going to happen to him when she moves on, and the aggression with which she tries to force him and successfully forces him out of the house so that she can continue her relationship with this new person. And it's just so...

[00:38:23] They really, really lean on her being as monstrously cruel as she possibly can to someone who presumably she had a very good relationship with up until the point that he received these injuries. He was her husband. There's no suggestion that he was a bad husband before that moment. He seems like a nice person. He seems like a lovely person. He seems like the only nice person maybe in the whole film. Well. Well, depending on where things go. And that happens a couple of times throughout.

[00:38:49] With other moments that I won't go into spoiling, where the film doesn't just say that her actions are questionable and that her morality is questionable. It leans on the manner in which she is carrying out those questionable actions, being as cruel and heartless and thoughtless to her partner, her ex-husband, I guess, as we go on, as possible. And I feel like at some point I was supposed to have forgotten that.

[00:39:16] I feel like at some point I was supposed to start sympathizing with her through the difficulties that she goes through, when I never really did. I was never able to get past that because of how horrifically they portrayed her. Yeah, I mean, I guess I also found it quite, it was obviously very, very bleak. It was not an easy watch.

[00:39:37] But I didn't dislike it as much as you, I suppose, because I accepted that she, that the fact that she was, I mean, imperfect sounds like too soft of a word, given what you've said. But the fact that she's not necessarily a good person, I found part of the story. And it still becomes this question of, because we still see as the story unfolds, she is someone who's willing to go so far. And then the question becomes, where is the line that she will not cross?

[00:40:08] It definitely pushes that character right up until the edge. And like you say, pushes her into a position of asking some very, very difficult moral questions. But as I say, the morality of what she's doing is not necessarily what was throwing me away from her. No. Because a film with that kind of a question is something which is reflected in a lot of the other nominees this year or selections in this category.

[00:40:35] I know that you mentioned before, The Devil's Bath, which has a lot of fanatic overlap with this and also involves characters making some extreme moral questions. But there's so much more empathy in The Devil's Bath for why they would do this and who they are as people in a way that the girl with the needle doesn't fully engage with. Right. So The Devil's Bath is, it was the Austrian submission. It's an Austrian-German production, but obviously Germany submitted The Seed of the Sacred Fig. So The Devil's Bath, it was Austrian.

[00:41:04] It was not selected, but because they announced their submission rather early, a bunch of us watched The Devil's Bath early in the season. And it is another one that's kind of relentlessly bleak. And I guess we can say it opens with a woman throwing a baby over a waterfall and then kind of becomes about understanding that story a bit better. Yeah. The interesting thing, I guess, in that opening is not necessarily just that she throws a baby over a waterfall, but then that she immediately hands herself in for execution.

[00:41:33] Right. And the question of why would you do this? What's the purpose in doing this? And then sort of framing the entire film around trying to understand why you would do this. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so I think that they are addressing a lot of the same questions and themes. And, but I see, I think in retrospect, as I think back on them both, like The Devil's Bath is one when I first finished it, I was like, no, that was awful. I mean, awful in terms of being so bleak and difficult to watch.

[00:42:04] But I've been thinking about it a lot ever since. And I don't know, The Girl with the Needle. I'm not sure that it taught me something fundamental or gave me this sort of fundamental thing to think about in the same way. It was just sort of an interesting movie, but probably one I'll forget more quickly. I think so.

[00:42:24] When it seems to be more almost misery porn, just putting you in as aggressive situations as they can possibly come up with, then it won't stick with you. It doesn't have that same level of humanity. Yeah, yeah. Okay, well, so that brings us to a much, much, much lighter final film in this category is Flow or Straum in Latvian.

[00:42:51] So it's the Latvia, Latvian submission, an hour and 25 minutes long. We also talked about this in the animation episode. This is Latvia's first Oscar nomination, and they got two for this film. I do think it's much more likely to win in animation than here. I'm predicting it as the animation winner, even though The Wild Robot is the big prediction for a lot of people. I think Flow might take it in animation. What do you think? I'd love to see this taking it in animation.

[00:43:21] When I first saw this film, it was introduced by somebody from, I think, Curzon, who was talking about it, who said that the director's first film was just him alone on his laptop in his bedroom, making it up with no input from anybody else. And this is the first time he's worked with a team. It is silent, as you say, and yet they didn't storyboard any of the scenes as they were making them. They put them between the different members of the team and had them work together on creating it,

[00:43:49] absent of a storyboard. So how they were able to end up with something which is as natural and visually expressive as they do, is really quite impressive. Yeah. So the director is Gaines Zilbelodis, and it was written by him and Matisse Kasha. And this was also got two BAFTA nominations. It's about an animated fantasy adventure film about a cat, a dog, a capybara, and a ring-tailed lemur

[00:44:16] trying to survive a flood in a world oddly empty of humans. And it's a wordless film, but uses real animation sounds, except for the capybara, which they used a baby camel. And I have written in here, the capybara is Mark's favorite. Wonderful capybara. Loved him. You're the head of our animal branch in the Academy of Death Racers, and your current name is for your consideration, capybara. I would hope, yeah, capybara for best animal performance.

[00:44:45] Any voters out there, I can only hope to persuade you to the wonderful capybara way of the world. Although there's a lot of performances in this that I would have loved to see. I found that whale to be a fantastic character. And the secretary bird was also lovely. So there are some really lovely visual performances in this, where they just allow the characters to evolve through action rather than anything else. Yeah, we talked about this more in the animation episode,

[00:45:12] but they studied the real animals to do all the animations. And as I just said, they used most of the real sound. So there's a level of realism with the animals that makes them captivating. And who doesn't like to see, you know, weird animal friendships? We've got the cat, dog, capybara, ring-tailed lemur, and then, yeah, the secretary bird. It's definitely a film not to watch if you are, if you maybe have recently lost an animal, or you're especially protective of animals,

[00:45:41] because there is a whole lot of peril for these wonderful, cute little friends to be thrown into. And I found it to be a stressful experience watching that poor cat. I was worried about it because I have a cat that looks just like that cat. But I actually, I found it kind of meditative. I don't know, soothing in a way, even though I guess I was never genuinely worried about the animals. That's understandable. Absolutely. I'll say this is the most kid-friendly film out of all the ones we're talking about today, by far.

[00:46:13] This one, it won lots of awards. I mean, obviously, all of these films have mostly won a lot of awards before they get to this point. But this one, especially we should call out, it took four awards at the Annecy International Film Festival, which Benoit, my guest on the animation episode, was pointing out is like the Oscars of animation, more or less. And the Annie Awards is the other biggest animation award. It got two. And it was also the first Latvian film to win a Golden Globe.

[00:46:40] So congratulations to Latvia in general. It's in theaters in a lot of places. It's still, it's doing well because of the nomination, but it's also on Macs in the U.S. and probably other countries as well. My biggest question about the international category, the film that I would have been rooting for. Why is Kneecap not on this list?

[00:47:07] Because the Oscars were too scared for them to smoke a blunt on the red carpet. Oh, that would just, that would be good for ratings, I think, honestly. That's true. So Kneecap was the Irish submission. It is, it got six BAFTA nominations, which again, Irish, not that surprising then. But it is about this group called Kneecap, this Irish hip hop group. And they are just very outspoken.

[00:47:33] And yeah, they, there's a lot of lyrics about drugs and stuff with the film. Did you get to watch that one yet? I did get to watch that one. Yeah. It's one that I found quite interesting from a British perspective. For example, yeah, you're talking about them rapping a lot about drugs. A large part of the film revolves around their censorship over the radio or their perceived censorship over the radio. And part of me was just going, no one's allowed to rap about drugs on the radio. That's not censorship.

[00:48:03] Eminem's not allowed to rap about drugs on the radio. He also has to make censored versions of his songs to get out there. That's not an anti-Irish language thing. That is a old people listen to the radio thing. Right, right. Yeah, but it is, there is also the complication of the fact that the Irish language was suppressed for the longest time. Definitely. Yeah.

[00:48:25] And the, and basing an entire extremely accessible film around the preservation of native language rights is fantastic. And should receive as much, as much love as it can. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So any other international films you wish would have been nominated? Oh, that's a question. I love the internationals list. The one that I would love to see on there is How to Make Millions Before Grandma Dies.

[00:48:55] I'm sure I'm far from the only person who loved that film. Yeah, that was great. Yeah, such a, such a lovely. That was from Thailand. Yeah. That's a Thai film. That's a Thai film about a, a young man trying to secure his inheritance from his grandma before she passes away. Which is at once both very wholesome and, and loving.

[00:49:18] But then also this really biting critique of how inherited wealth within a system where we're forced to compete for that wealth drives a wedge between family units. It's a really thoughtful film. And they, they go all in at one point about somebody getting ill. That was, it was kind of dark and harrowing at one point. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. I think that's the, that's the one from the list that I most would have wanted to see nominated. Okay. All right.

[00:49:47] Well, let's, let's switch gears into the writing side of things. So we're going to talk about adapted screenplay. And I know that this is the one you've been able to watch the least from, but we're going to be talking about most of these or have already talked about most of these in other categories. So it is, it is the case that the writing categories most often tend to go to the most nominated films in general. So. That's true. Starting with again. Hello, Amelia Perez.

[00:50:16] Oh God, the writing in this film. I'm sure that you've spoken about it before in other categories, but there are certain moments within it from a screenplay structure standpoint that just don't make any sense to me at all. I'm not sure how much you want me to avoid a spoiler here. So you let me know if this is too. No, go for it. Yeah. Well, there's a beat towards the end where a character, I won't say who, says, what have we done?

[00:50:41] Um, as this big sort of faux Shakespearean tragedy that, oh, if only they'd known the full scope of things, it would have changed their behavior. And it lands with such an awkward, dull fud because no, you wouldn't. It wouldn't have changed your behavior at all. You behaved in a very sensible way, to be honest, albeit maybe a bit extreme. Uh, and the knowing who the person is, um, that was, whose identity was hidden from you in this kind of, uh, trans, uh, case of mistaken identity.

[00:51:09] If anything would have exacerbated your actions, it wouldn't have lessened them. It's a complete mess of a, of a line within a complete mess of a screenplay. Yeah. Yeah. So the screenplay is by Jacques Odiard, the director in collaboration with, uh, Thomas Birguet, uh, Lea Micius and Nicolas Livechi.

[00:51:29] And, um, I was surprised actually to see this under adapted screenplay, but then the explanation is, uh, so there is a novel by Boris Razun called Ecoute or Listen. And apparently a chapter of this novel inspired Odiard, the director to, um, he planned out a four part opera libretto and then decided maybe that was not the right format.

[00:51:57] So then, you know, came up with this, this musical that as we have it now. Uh, so this is why people think of it as being completely original, but it is more or less at some point inspired by a chapter from this book. Ecoute, I tried to, I looked up the, um, summary of the book Ecoute and it's indeed, it's about this whole other story. So it's hard to say how much this actually takes from that. But then again, last year, Barbie was under adapted just for using a doll that exists. So.

[00:52:27] Yeah. The, the, the lines between adapted and original are getting about as blurry as the lines between comedy, musical and drama in the golden globes these days. It's very unclear why one falls into one category and not the other. Yeah. I mean, as far as Amelia Perez, um, we are going to be, we already talked about this one a bunch and we're going to talk about it some more in upcoming episodes. So I won't dwell on it too long, but I will say that on paper, the idea is interesting.

[00:52:54] It's just, it all just feels a bit too clumsily realized. And, and again, the real issue with it that people take is that, uh, you know, the writer director was, was basically like, well, I'm just writing a fantasy. I don't need to actually understand these identities that I'm writing about. Uh, I just can make up my own version and yeah, that remains a problem. Definitely.

[00:53:18] And there's a lot of both trans critics and Mexican critics who are much more eloquent than me to explain exactly how far he misses the mark on that. But it is the thing that surprises me most that even ignoring that it's just still a little bit rubbish for me anyway. Right. Right. And if you want to hear from the Mexican critics and trans critics, then do check out that controversy episode where, um, they speak for themselves. So. Absolutely.

[00:53:46] Uh, the next one conclave two hours long. This is also one that we've talked about. We had a previous deep dive episode into this. Uh, you'll find that linked in the show notes as well as our deep dives into the other Oscar nominated films this year. And, uh, this it's about the election of a new Pope. Uh, we also talked about the score and music, and we're going to be talking about it more in the tech and acting and best picture categories. Uh, but this is screenplay. So it was written by Peter Strahan.

[00:54:14] Um, and based on the novel of the same name conclave by Robert Harris. And I, I looked up, I read the summary of the novel and it seems like it, it's, it's quite faithful. They, I know they changed for instance, the name of the main character. I think he's Italian in the book and they, they were like, Oh, well we have Ray fine. So let's make him British and call him Lawrence, which fair. Um, and this is currently the favorite to win in this category. I know you haven't gotten a chance to see this one yet, but, uh, thoughts in general.

[00:54:44] Uh, yeah, because I haven't seen it. I don't have many. Uh, I'm, uh, it took from the outside in. And I say that as you're sort of fully aware that I've not seen it yet. It looks like the kind of film that would have been the absolute front runner back in the 2010 kind of an Oscars days. Do you know what I mean? Like it's, it's got a very kind of the King's speech kind of a vibe to it.

[00:55:07] Uh, in a way where something like, I guess, Amelia Perez is the, uh, is the black swan of that analogy. Yeah. Black sheep out there. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah. So this one also got 12 BAFTA nominations. It's available to watch on Peacock or video on demand. Um, and it's, it's a really solid film. Uh, I think it could do well.

[00:55:30] It's one of those ones that could just miss all the awards or it could wind up doing well with all the awards because it's, I don't know anyone who dislikes this film, but it's also doesn't seem to be the favorite of many people. Is, are the writing categories voted in an STV or are they still on a single vote? I think a single vote. Yeah. It's a single vote. So I don't think it'll win this category, but people do think, oh, actually, sorry.

[00:55:59] It is predicted to be the winner in this category, which I guess, uh, it's not necessarily my favorite, but maybe it's my second favorite in this category. What's your favorite? I think the last one we're going to talk about is my favorite Sing Sing. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay. Moving on to, like I said, we'll, we've talked about Conclave before. Please see the deep dive episode. We'll be back to talk about Conclave some more.

[00:56:23] Uh, but moving on to another, uh, big nominee this year, a complete unknown two hours and 21 minutes long. And this is the other one that is the favorite could be winner of this category. And it's about the start of Bob Dylan's career, about his friends and influences, his love life and the evolution of his sound. And so it's a James Mangold film. And James Mangold is someone for me who is mostly hits sometimes misses.

[00:56:52] I don't know how you feel about it. Like he did my favorite two Wolverine movies, Logan and the Wolverine. But then at the same time he did Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny. Um, uh, he did a lot of like great films like Girl Interrupted. Um, but then, and Walk the Line, which is another music biopic in this category. But then I'm, I can't even remember Ford versus Ferrari anymore, to be honest. Ford versus Ferrari is one of those films.

[00:57:19] There's a couple of them every year, which are just so right down the middle, exactly what you thought they were going to be. Uh, and I, yeah, like you say very much, I think I've forgotten what happened in Ford versus Ferrari the moment. Exactly. Yeah. When I think about it, I keep thinking about the Adam Driver one from last year. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. That's a different one. Um, but this, okay. So complete unknown. It's based on the book. Dylan goes electric, Newport Seeger, Dylan, and the night that split the sixties by Elijah Walt.

[00:57:49] And, um, cooks who wrote the screenplay. He's someone who works with Scorsese a lot, uh, like on the age of innocence, gangs of New York, et cetera. And I haven't read the book, but Nancy, who listeners will know as hand of the pod, two kids, two dogs on discord. She has not only read this book. She did a whole deep dive into Bob Dylan. So she sent in a voicemail with her thoughts about this as an adaptation.

[00:58:17] So let's hear what she has to say. Hi, Alicia. It's Nancy. Thanks for asking me to comment on a complete unknowns Oscar nomination for best adapted screenplay. My husband considers Bob Dylan a musical god. I couldn't understand it. How could he think that way about someone who, in my opinion, can't sing very well? But being a hound for lore, I did a deep dive. I picked up a whole bunch of books about Dylan and I learned some of his songs on the piano. What I found is why Bob Dylan matters.

[00:58:47] My eyes were opened to his poetry dressed as song lyrics. His impact, whether he wanted to acknowledge it or not, on the social movements of the early 1960s. His inspiration on fellow musicians who, for the last 60 years, have covered his songs. I learned that while success came quickly for him, he felt musically trapped by that fame and the folk music genre. His early songs became anthems for the youth movement of the 1960s,

[00:59:13] but Dylan regularly denied his songs expressed anything but his own experience and feelings. This past December, I went to see A Complete Unknown. It was only after seeing the movie that I found out the screenplay was based on a book by Elijah Wald called Dylan Goes Electric, Newport, Seeger, Dylan, and the Night That Split the 60s. Dylan Goes Electric covers the rise of folk music in the 1940s, 50s, and early 60s,

[00:59:39] as championed by Woody Guthrie, Pete Seeger, and many more. But at its core, it is a historical account of a day in 1965 that marked the peak and subsequent demise of folk music and the rise of rock music. To the dismay of the 1965 Newport Folk Festival organizers, Bob Dylan left his acoustic guitar behind and plugged in his Stratocaster electric guitar. Pete Seeger may or may not have threatened to cut the power chords with an axe.

[01:00:09] And according to the book, Dylan electrified one half of his audience and electrocuted the other. Reports varied. Folks in the audience may have only been a few fans booing or most of the fans were booing. Dylan Goes Electric provides a whole host of reasons that this section of the festival turned into a shit show, but history remembers it as when Dylan went electric. Elijah Wald's book is a fascinating look into this period of music history.

[01:00:35] It's not surprising that the director, James Mangold, along with Jay Cox, adapted it for the screen. Mangold has already proved his interest in music biography with his film Walk the Line about Johnny Cash and June Carter. The other nominees for this award are all worthy of the nomination. Three of them, Conclave, Amelia Perez, and Nickel Boys, are all based on novels. Novels that provide in-depth plot and characterization to follow. Sing Sing was inspired by an Esquire article.

[01:01:04] Some of the former inmates who participated in the actual rehabilitation programs have roles in the film and were thus able to contribute to the storytelling itself. However, I think that a complete unknown deserves and should win Best Adapted Screenplay. It should win because of the challenge these two men must have had transforming what is essentially a history book into a compelling cinematic story. They brought to life a story made up of interviews, statistics, newspaper reports, and author conjecture.

[01:01:33] It should also win because they gave Timothee Chalamet a script that allowed him to show the audience how a teenager can arrive in New York seeking fame, achieve it, and then become perplexed by it, causing him to be more withdrawn, introspective, and even more insistent on following his own direction, even if it means picking up an electric guitar. Take care.

[01:01:56] Yeah, so Nancy brings up, actually she brings up some points about why I favor Sing Sing, which we'll get to in a little bit, but she brings up some excellent points about the challenge of adapting this. I am a bit less bullish on the film overall. Like, I liked it. I liked it. But it's one of those ones where, you know, we were just saying that sometimes Mangold is a bit middle of the road, and this film felt a bit middle of the road for me. It felt a bit sanitized in some ways.

[01:02:26] I said, you know, to paraphrase the movie, that was pretty, maybe too pretty. He says that at one point to Joan Baez. Yeah, it was, I would have liked more insight into Bob Dylan, and this sort of left him the mysterious troubadour that his girlfriends accuse him of being. So for me, this one was a mixed bag.

[01:02:54] But overall, I think it's, you know, it's a pleasant watch. It's really interesting. I didn't actually know about his history with Pete Seegers, and that was really cool to see. So, yeah. Well, if you're interested in more about Bob Dylan and you care about the archiving of art, there is a documentary on the BBC called Dylan in the Madhouse about a time before he achieved the fame that he did,

[01:03:20] when he was an unknown guy with a guitar who showed up to do a quick recording on a BBC radio play, during which time he sang probably the first recorded version of Blown in the Wind, and the BBC immediately burnt all the tapes, and it's lost forever because they didn't care. So like this amazing piece of musical history that the BBC had, and then promptly destroyed. So do check that out if you're interested.

[01:03:49] It's funny, there's a running theme in the movie where, you know, Blowing in the Wind, Wind, I guess it's his first famous song, and then later in his career, he's like, I don't want to play that song anymore. And it's not my personal favourite Bob Dylan song. There's other songs in the film that I'm much more into, but I think they played it over the credits. So I went home and had Blowing in the Wind stuck in my head for days. I was like, no! Exactly what he would have wanted. I'm like, actually, I would rather have his electric guitar songs in my head.

[01:04:21] But yeah, this is a film, as I said, it's nominated a lot. So we're going to be talking about it more in the Tech Awards and acting and directing and in the Best Picture episode. It's currently in theatres, but it is coming to paid video on demand on February 25th. And it has six BAFTA nominations as well. So that brings us to Nickel Boys, two hours, 20 minutes long, directed by Ramel Ross, who wrote it with Josh Barnes.

[01:04:51] And it's based on the novel of the same name by Colson Whitehead. And probably most people are familiar with the name Colson Whitehead, if not this novel. But it's about Elwood Curtis's college dreams are shattered when he's sentenced to Nickel Academy, a brutal reformatory in Jim Crow South.

[01:05:17] And the big thing that people will talk about this film first is that it's done with first-person cinematography, switching back and forth between these two. I mean, I don't want to call them boys. They're like young men, I suppose. Yeah. And that cinematography serves a story because it's a story about identity. But the fact that it's first-person definitely leads to some very divided opinions.

[01:05:44] For me, the first-person aspect did – I thought it was very interesting. And I like in a way that they did that. But it left me kind of more emotionally cold because I realized that I personally depend on seeing the facial expressions of a character to empathize with them. I realize that's a thing for me. But for other people, they feel more put in their shoes. I don't know. I know you haven't been able to watch this one. But what have you heard? Very little. That's actually the first time that I'd heard that about it. Oh, okay. I'm out on this one.

[01:06:13] That sounds like Peep Show. And that's always why I never watched Peep Show is the exact same reason. So that's interesting. Interesting. Interesting. It sounds like as far as the adaptation aspect of it, I haven't read the novel. But it seems like it's pretty faithful. I know one difference is that the grandmother character plays a bigger role in the film. And that's definitely a plus for the film. Played by Anjanu Ellis Taylor.

[01:06:39] And she has been a delight during the awards season, during interviews and stuff. But she gives – because she's a character who you actually see the camera pointed at. So I can feed off of her empathy to help place me more in the story. So I was really glad for that. But also there's another character, Mr. Earl, who he beats the students. And he's the right-hand man of the superintendent of Nickel Academy. In the novel, apparently he's white. But he's black in the film.

[01:07:08] And that adds an interesting wrinkle showing just more complexity in terms of – you would think that he should not be siding with the white superintendent. But yet, in reality, such things do happen. And there's also something else from the book where that character is accidentally poisoned. And he ends up leaving the school after that. And then they end up getting someone even worse in.

[01:07:38] So it just goes to show you get rid of one. Maybe things get worse. These are – I understand they need to pare back. But it seems like it's a quite good adaptation. But as Nancy points out, they had a lot to work with. If you're interested in watching this one, it's on video on demand now. And it's going to be on MGM Plus starting February 28th. And this was also a surprise Best Picture nomination. So we'll talk about it more then. It got a BAFTA nom too. Were you surprised about the Best Picture nomination?

[01:08:08] I am mostly surprised, just looking through that now, about the existence of MGM Plus. What the hell is MGM Plus? They can't – It's an American, yeah. Oh, is it an American thing? Oh, is it? Okay. Well, you know what? I actually have – I'm a subscriber to MGM Plus. But it's because I subscribe to Lionsgate and then they change the name to MGM Plus. But I don't get the American MGM Plus content. So I'm like, what are we doing here? Lionsgate has its own streaming service too? Here it did.

[01:08:36] But now it's called MGM Plus. But it doesn't have any of the same content as the American MGM Plus. So I don't know what's going on over there. Wow. But it's on video on demand for all the people who don't have it. But if you get MGM Plus, you can watch From and you can watch Beacon 23. And listen to my podcast coverage. I mean, I'm on board with the content. It's the variety of streaming services that are out there. It's been said to death. Yeah. So there's no way that you can keep up with all of these services. No, it's true.

[01:09:04] But it's just one more that I can't keep up with. No, it's true. And that's how most people feel about it, to be honest, about MGM Plus. Because it's – yeah. It's not like in the top five even in the U.S. So – hmm. All right. And that brings us to the last in the category. As I said, this is my personal favorite. Sing Sing, hour and 45 minutes long. Screenplay by – and as Nancy was saying, it's a collaboration of people. We've got Clint Bentley and Greg Cuedar, who is the director.

[01:09:34] But the story is by both of them, plus Clarence Macklin, who's one of the actors in the film, and John Devine G. Whitfield. And it's considered an adaptation. It's based on the real-life rehabilitation through the arts program at Sing Sing Maximum Security Prison. And it centers on a group of incarcerated men who are involved in the creation of theatrical stage shows through the program.

[01:10:00] And as Nancy mentioned, there is an Esquire article from 2005 called The Sing Sing Follies by John H. Richardson that tells this story. And they're kind of pulling from that and also directly from – there was a 2005 play called Breaking the Mummy's Code by Brent Buell, which is featured – the play is featured within the film. That's a play that they're putting on within the film. So it stars professional actors. Like we have Coleman Domingo.

[01:10:30] He's nominated this year for Best Actor for this, and he was nominated last year for Best Actor for Rustin. And there's also other professional actors, Sean San Jose, Paul Racy. And then there's also – they're mixed in with a cast with formerly incarcerated men who were actually in this program. So it's kind of blurring the lines of reality.

[01:10:53] The standout of that group is definitely, as I said, Clarence Macklin, who he is – a lot of people wanted him to be nominated for Best Supporting Actor. And I, yeah, I think that that would have been a good shout if he had been. Insanely simple low-budget, filmed in 19 days, premiered at the Toronto International Film Festival. Took forever for this film to come out. Like it was more than a year, year and a half, right? From its premiere to when it was actually released.

[01:11:23] Oh, it wasn't a word of that. Yeah. I did talk about it a bit in the music episode. It's actually my favorite of the original songs, Don't Tell the Diane Warren Crew. And we'll talk about it again in the acting episode as well. So I do think it should have gotten the Best Picture nomination, but I'm obviously just apparently partial to this film. It got three BAFTA nominations and it's on video on demand.

[01:11:51] It will be on max starting March 21st if you want to see it for yourself. Interesting that Sean Baker gets so much love for his casting of non-professional actors. And yet here is something where not only are they casting non-professional actors, but they're casting people who are directly related to the project. And yet I'm not hearing quite as much conversation surrounding those people. Yeah. I mean, I have heard, you know, people saying, I heard through the buzz about that before I read that anywhere.

[01:12:21] So people are talking about it, but I just think in general, this film flew under the radar a lot. I think I remember when the first trailer came out, like this time last year, and I was salty about Coleman Domingo not winning Best Actor last year. And I was like, he's going to be nominated next year. I'm calling it now. And sure enough, he was. But a lot of people didn't think that this film would get any recognition.

[01:12:51] So I guess, and then it got to the point where people expected it to get one of the Best Picture nominations. And then it kind of fell in between. So I guess just considering how small it is, I suppose that speaks to the quality that it wasn't completely forgotten. Yeah. Okay. Shifting gears. The last category we're going to talk about today, original screenplay. And unlike the last two categories, the market I talked about this time, I am going to be ranking the category.

[01:13:18] So we're going to be talking about these films in the order from my personal least favorite to my personal most favorite. And Mark, please shout out as we go to what extent you agree or disagree with my personal favorites. I will be ranking them on the fly, looking through your list. The one that I have not seen is the Brutalist. Once again, much like I'm still here, probably the one I'm going to enjoy the most, I should imagine, is the one that I've not seen, sadly. However, yes, I will let you know as we go. Okay.

[01:13:47] We're going to start with September 5th, an hour and 34 minutes long, by Moritz Binder and Tim Feldbaum, who is the director. And it was co-written by Alex David. And this film chronicles the Munich Massacre of 1972 from the perspective of the ABC sports crew and their coverage of the events. And it was billed as a potential award season sleeper after its premiere at the Venice Film Festival. But then it wound up only getting this nomination.

[01:14:17] I'll be honest. I was hoping it wouldn't. But what do you think first about this film? I immediately agree that this is my least favourite of the four, or least favourite of the five. You'll see a lot of this sort of category of people trying to do what it is that Aaron Sorkin does so effortlessly, when he's able to make a procedural, be it based in a video production house like this,

[01:14:45] or so often the courtroom in his case, which can really get into the nitty gritty, get into the weeds and be something granular and interesting and mature, while also giving every one of the major cast an arc in a way that doesn't feel tacked on or slightly awkward. It just naturally flows into the themes of the film. It's something that he's fantastic at doing that no one else can really come close to.

[01:15:11] And then you'll often end up getting things like September 5, where both the technical complexity of what was occurring is diminished to primary colours, and the personal drama and character arcs are all but non-existent. Yeah. Yeah, I felt like the events were, they felt superficial and sensationalised the way that they were portrayed. And I understand that we're looking at these events through the eyes of the newsroom, and they're going to spin in a certain way.

[01:15:40] But I do have to ask the question of why this film at this moment? And it does just seem to, it seems to demonise the, I mean, you know, I'm not speaking out in favour of the terrorists in the film, but it doesn't, there's like a throwaway line at one point, like, oh, they're protesting, they want 200 female prisoners released. And then I'm like, well, wait, wait, wait, go back to that line, tell me more. Like, why do they want 200 female prisoners released?

[01:16:09] It's such, it's a much more, what Aaron Sorkin would never do is not have that represented. And just, you know, yeah, to just have them as this cartoonishly evil entity, when there's obviously a lot of complexities that lead into the situation. And I, you know, I was just saying in the documentary episode, I'm often interested in the people who perpetrate violent acts.

[01:16:34] I want to know what drove them to that point, because how else are we supposed to prevent that in the future? If we just say, oh, evil moving on, you know, I don't know. At the end of the day, it was like, this felt so much slighter than I expected. It's easy for it to feel slight when they're making an effort at staying apolitical, when they're making such an effort as a film to not deal with the Palestinian-Israeli conflict,

[01:17:03] and just to focus on it from the newscaster's perspective. But then it made it more political. 100%. 100%. That's a political act in and of itself. Diluting it to that simplicity, and then showing the Israeli characters, casting actors to play the Israeli characters, and having them on screen as victims, constantly in the background with the photos and with the news footage. Whereas the Palestinian characters are never shown, their faces are never shown even slightly.

[01:17:34] That in itself is a hugely political statement, whether they intend it or not. There's one character who at one point says, hey, I'm Arab. Not all Arabs are bad. And then that's the extent to which they address that. They do take a lot more, well, I don't want to say nuance. There's a female character, Marianne, who is my favorite character. I think she's the most interesting character. You know, shout out to, it's a great cast overall, but shout out especially to Leonie Binesh.

[01:18:02] She, it's her role to like deal with sexism with a smile and still kick ass and be awesome, which is kind of a trope. But that's really the only kind of nuance that's brought in any political way, saying like sexism isn't cool. Which again, is that a particularly complex statement to be making? No. It's pretty basic. No, I would say if you want to know more about the events that this film is about,

[01:18:32] watch the Steven Spielberg 2005 film Munich. If you want a newsroom drama, watch Spotlight from 2015, which is about the pre-scandal. And apparently the Czech submission this year, Waves, is also a newsroom drama. It's going to be coming out in 2025. And apparently that's better too. I can't speak to that. But, and I would say if you want a movie about the Jewish experience, do not expect that from this film. This is not at all what this film is about.

[01:19:00] And I would suggest watching A Real Pain instead. And we're going to talk about A Real Pain in a minute. The existence of Munich is really interesting to me. It's maybe the most interesting thing about this film is that the film Munich exists and is extremely well respected by film fans. So why would you do this again if you don't have anything coherent to say on the topic? Why would you do something where you're drawing such immediate comparisons

[01:19:29] to a really well respected film by Steven Spielberg if you don't have anything to say? Yeah, I would say this adds nothing to the conversation and then watch all those other films instead, unless you're a death racer. And then, you know, sorry. Well. But it's not like the production and all that, you know, it's not technically it's interesting. And I see why people are like, oh, it's a tense thriller. But I think even the people who like it will forget about it within a year. For sure.

[01:20:00] Yeah. If you do want to watch it, though, it's on video on demand. So that brings us to, as you said, you haven't watched The Brutalist. It's three and a half hours, three hours and 35 minutes long. Also got nine BAFTA nominations. It is expected to hit video on demand on February 18th. So around the same time that this episode dropped. So I definitely don't blame anyone who would rather watch it at home. I have to say I got a little squirmy in the theater, even though there is an intermission in the middle of it.

[01:20:30] Um, this was written by Bradley Corbet, who's a director and his partner, Mona Fastfold. And they last worked together on Vox Lux in 2018, which is a completely different kind of film. Uh, Corbet is also an actor, by the way. Um, but it's about Adrian Brody plays a Hungarian Jewish Holocaust survivor named Laszlo Toth, who immigrates to the United States where he struggles to achieve the American dream until a wealthy client changes his life.

[01:20:58] And I did actually get into the plot of this one a bit more in the music episode, because surprisingly, this was my favorite of the scores. Um, because listening to the score and actually analyzing the score helped me like the film better, the, the plot of the film, the writing of the film. Um, most people, you said you expected to be one of your favorites. It is, it seems like most people do quite like this one. I thought it was a mess.

[01:21:27] Um, I thought that the dialogue was mostly clunky and that the story sets up threads and characters and then drops them unsatisfyingly. I think that it should have been an hour shorter. It was a bit self-indulgent in that way, but there is also a lot of very good, interesting things going on. So it's one I've softened on my negative opinion of it in the time since I watched it. And, and like I said, the score helped a lot. Uh, but overall it's, it's, it's not my favorite.

[01:21:57] Um, if someone really loves the brutalist, I genuinely really, really want to hear from you. Love if you can make a voicemail to, uh, to talk about why you love it, because, um, obviously my opinion is the outlier here. If you look at the reviews on letterbox and such, but you will be hearing from more people about it too, because we're going to be talking about it in the tech episode and in the acting and directing episode and the best picture episode. So, uh, this is one of the most nominated films this year. Fair warning.

[01:22:26] There are many content warnings for this one, not as bad as the girl with the needle, but still, you know, there's heroin use and sexual assault and, uh, this one won't be for everyone. Why is it that you think that this is going to be a favorite of yours? I honestly, simply the, um, the overwhelming critical response that I've heard towards it.

[01:22:49] This is definitely one of those films where the, the response to it was so positive right out of festivals that I immediately stopped listening to, uh, any other, uh, any detailed, um, information about the film because I wanted to go in as blind as it was possible for me to do. Uh, so I, I've, I've stayed so far away from the specifics of plot. I deliberately looked away and kind of zoned out when you started talking about details there because I'm trying to avoid.

[01:23:15] Um, and, and so, so I, I honestly don't have anything to say about this film other than I cannot believe the guy who directed Vox Lux is, uh, is, uh, having a positive response quite this extreme, um, to his follow-up film because wow, Vox Lux was not it. But hey, good for him. Um, I mean, yeah, this is so wildly different from Vox Lux. I, it's hard to believe it's the same writer director pair, you know, but, uh, here we are. Okay. All right.

[01:23:42] Well, we'll, we'll talk about this more in other categories, as I said, but moving on to the substance, which you have seen two hours and 21 minutes long written and directed by Coralie Farge. And this one is really, you can tell that it's, it's a themes that she's been grappling with.

[01:24:00] So it's a body horror film following a fading celebrity, Elizabeth sparkle played by Demi Moore, who after being fired by her producer played by Dennis Quaid due to her age, she uses a black market drug that creates a younger version of herself. Margaret Quaid, um, you can see that she was grappling with these same concepts for years because there's also this short called reality. Plus I'll put a link in the show notes to that. You can watch it on YouTube.

[01:24:29] Uh, but it's, it's grappling with a lot of the same questions with far less gore. This is a very gory hyper-sexualized satire. Uh, sometimes the hyper-sexualized parts was a little over the top for me, but overall this is, you know, in my top 20 films of the year. And I say that as someone who's literally watched like a hundred, 135 films from 2024. So far, I think I saw. Oh, very good.

[01:24:56] Um, and yeah, and the fact that this is ranking third in this category for me is showing the strength of the category overall. But what, what are your feelings about it, Mark? Uh, I do have issues with the substance. It's, I don't have the unalloyed good time with the substance, which I think I wish that I did. Uh, but with that having been said, the issues that I do have generally speaking aren't related to the screenplay.

[01:25:19] The screenplay side of this is about as close to perfect for my personal taste as this is going to ever get, uh, in a category like this, where it is such, uh, just a scream of anger. It's just a punk rock kicking the balls of a film. Yeah. Uh, it's so awesome. And the, uh, the, the profound mean spirited streak to this film is something that I just loved.

[01:25:45] It gives it so much, uh, uh, so much personality for it to be so angry about the topics that it's angry about and so willing to paint everybody as ridiculous straw men. The Dennis Quaid character, for example, no effort is made at all to make him a realistic character. He is an asshole. And that is all that you need to know because this film hates him and everything he represents. And that's fantastic. It's not trying to be a particularly, um, nuanced take on this topic.

[01:26:11] It's trying to be, uh, what genre can, can do, what, what, what a genre film like this or, or like a sci-fi film can do, which is to satirize in a, uh, in as entertaining of a way as possible. Yeah. A very extreme way. I would say extreme is a word that applies a lot to this film. Uh, what are your issues? I really didn't enjoy the amount that the film lent on, on, um, reminders and flashbacks for elements of it.

[01:26:39] You would think from some of those flashbacks and reminders that it did a poor job of setting up elements like how the substance works and what the rules are and what characters had said at particular moments to her, which isn't true at all. I think it, it, it, it strikes me as a, um, a lack of faith in the audience to have been keeping up with all of these things that it feels the need to remind you in so such on the nose manners.

[01:27:03] Maybe that was an effort in, in sort of reflecting its, um, sort of punk rock sentiment elsewhere, uh, for it to be so blunt in reminding you about things. But I just didn't think it was required, um, and, uh, and made it a bit of a frustrating experience in that regard. And then also surprisingly, given that the effects work is so fantastic and the amount of effort put into it is, is, is, is on display.

[01:27:31] Other elements of the film did kind of look cheap to me. Parts of it. When you get, when you build up towards the end, no spoilers for what it is, you build up to this big show at the end and you're looking at it going, is this the big show? Is this all that it is? It, it, it, it, it looks like a kind of a back lot thing that you would see in one of the, um, straight to streaming Blumhouse, uh, films that they pump out where it's just the cheapest possible way to get this shot.

[01:27:59] Um, and so there were elements like that, which, which didn't fully work for me, but like I say, those, they're minor elements compared to how much fun I have with that film.

[01:28:34] Yeah. Remember the flashbacks you talk about? So probably that means they could have been taken out and this film could have been slightly shorter. It didn't necessarily need to be two and a half hours. But it doesn't feel like two and a half hours, does it? No, no, it doesn't. No, it is. It flies by. Yeah. Um, and so this one is available on movie and video on demand. It is the second favorite to win this category.

[01:29:00] And we're going to be talking about it more in the tech categories, all this makeup and everything, uh, acting, uh, where it is a favorite for Demi Moore and best picture. And it also got five BAFTA nominations. For the record, this would be my number one of the, uh, of the, of the five or of the four. Oh, really? Okay. Uh, faults aside, this would be your number one. Oh yeah. Yeah. From the screenplay standpoint, there's almost no fault in it for me personally. It's a, yeah, the screenplay I think is fantastic.

[01:29:29] Okay. Okay. Um, so that brings us to my second favorite, which actually, I mean, this one. And, uh, so there's two left. It's a real pain and a Nora and both of them are, I said, I watched, I think like 135, 2024 films so far. And only eight of them got five stars and two of the eight that got five stars are a real pain and a Nora. Wow.

[01:29:55] So a real pain is written by Jesse Eisenberg who also directed it and is also, also stars in it. And it's about mismatched cousins, David and Benji who tour Poland to honor their grandmother. Their, their adventure becomes complicated as old tensions resurface while exploring their family history. And I should say their family history is, uh, they're, they're Jewish, they're Jewish Polish, um, backgrounds. And so, you know, they go on a Jewish heritage tour of Poland.

[01:30:22] And, uh, in a way it's kind of a nice, much lighter companion piece to last year's the zone of interest. Like not to spoil the zone of interest, but there's one point where you look inside the concentration camp and here there's a similar scene, but from a different perspective, rather than the people who lived it, the people who are looking back on it. So many years later. Yeah. I, the Holocaust trip though, overall, they're using that more as a framing device.

[01:30:51] And it's really about how like the stress of this travel, the fact of their grandmother's passing, um, how this is pushing these characters and the relationship between them. And I just find it incredibly nuanced and rich. I identified they're both completely different characters, but I, I'm pretty sure that I'm somehow both of them. So it really hit all the right notes for me. Um, yeah. What did, what did you think of this one?

[01:31:20] I think in the moments in which it had that incredible nuance to it, those are the parts that I really, really liked about the film where you have that, there's an overall theme to it really. Of, of, uh, comparative grief and the fallacy of, of, of comparing your grief to other people's and using other people's pain to, as a benchmark to judge your own. Um, it seems that there's a line in it.

[01:31:44] I can't remember the exact line where, uh, Jesse Eisenberg's character says something like my pain is, uh, is unexceptional. Uh, and the, the idea that he is, he is putting his pain against the existence of the Holocaust or against the existence of other forms of horrendous pain. Like there's a character who's a survivor of the Rwandan genocide. So yes. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And so he's comparing his, his, uh, his struggle against that and, and finding himself falling short.

[01:32:12] And the way in which that's expressed through the film as a general rule, like really, really like there were elements in it where I found that it became a little bit more didactic. Again, I won't go into detail, but there's a dinner conversation that Eisenberg has where he has a bit of a monologue with the, with the rest of the tour, um, which became slightly more handholding in a way that I didn't love. I liked the monologue.

[01:32:37] I liked how it zoomed in on him while the, while he was giving this monologue because he says, uh, yeah, minor spoiler, but he says like, so he's the more neurotic type who has his life together. And his cousin, who's played by Kieran Culkin, who's nominated has, and is a favorite actually in his category. He has the more Kieran Culkin personality. Like, you know, if you know him from succession, you know, Kieran Culkin plays himself to varying degrees.

[01:33:01] And, um, so he's the more like engaging one, but maybe less reliable and more, you know, unpredictable and can be frustrating. And Jesse Eisenberg's character is saying to the rest of the table after, uh, Kieran Culkin's character goes off. He's like, you know, at the end of this trip, you are all going to love him and think he's such a great guy, but you need to know he also makes my life miserable a lot of the time. And, uh, yeah. And the honesty and realism of that. And he was completely right. You know?

[01:33:31] Definitely. Definitely. And I guess as a similar theme in the film, then you have basically all the words you were using to describe Kieran Culkin's character just then feels like 50% perfectly describes him and 50% doesn't because he's more complex than using any individual word. If you were to, if you were to call him, uh, unpredictable, you'd say that's kind of true. And then other times you go, well, no, that's exactly what he was always, he becomes predictable through his, uh, through his fixations. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:34:00] And he could call him charming and you can say, well, sometimes very much so. And sometimes not at all. He's insulting. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it's, yeah, there's a complexity to his character, which is, which is really well written. Yeah. And I find that for both of them and the, in the way that those two play off of each other. And the fact that I see aspects of both of them in myself says, you know, I don't think that these are mutually incompatible personalities.

[01:34:26] I just, it's just the way that their lives have played out and the, oh, and the stuff with their grandmother. Yeah. I don't want to get too much into spoilers of the details, but I, I just really love the writing of this film. Um, this is another one where Jesse Eisenberg has been kind of working through this story for a while. He has a short story called Mongolia, which, uh, that one was about two college friends, uh, who have this sort of personality split and they travel to East Asia together.

[01:34:56] Um, and then end up in this like yurt on an, in an eco tourism center. And, um, he also took these two characters from plays that he starred in. And so the revisionist and the spoils. And so, yeah, this is obviously something he's been mulling over in his head for many years now. And that shows, I think in the attention to detail and the depth of the script.

[01:35:21] And for me, uh, from a personality perspective in his character, less so than from a plot perspective, you can go further back than that, where I think there's a lot of the end of the tour in this film. Uh, specifically for Jesse Eisenberg's character, um, a very, a very similar character that he plays in the end of the tour there in terms of how he doesn't, uh, view his own damages worthy of being fixed and, uh, mistakenly worships other damaged people in the process. Hmm. Yeah.

[01:35:47] And it's interesting that, so Jesse Eisenberg is, he's Jewish, but he's not, you know, a religious person. Uh, so he got the help. He has a friend who converted to Judaism and became very strongly religious. And so he had that friend consult as well, because a lot of it is also about, uh, identity and faith and how did they intermingle and yeah.

[01:36:10] And how someone who like the Rwandan, um, the Rwandan survivor, he converts to Judaism because he found a solace in it after his experiences. And how sometimes that can pull you more closely to something than if you just grew up with it casually. Hmm. I do think it's interesting. There's a Chopin soundtrack used throughout. And I think, uh, the classical music, I do want to say it's a funny film. It doesn't sound like it the way we're talking about it, but it is actually frequently funny.

[01:36:41] Definitely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Especially with, um, Kieran Culkin's performance. Yeah. Yeah. And, and there's, uh, so the Chopin soundtrack in the background is obviously this light classical music that it complements the classes, the classic nature of this sort of story. Um, but I think also the intricacies of the details within it, but it's interesting. Chopin is Polish, but apparently he was anti-Semitic. So it's kind of ironic that that's a soundtrack.

[01:37:09] Well, there's a, there are some reflections to an extent of Kieran Culkin's character within Chopin's, um, public persona where he was known for being, uh, virtuosic in the extreme, uh, the rock star of his day, where he would, uh, be extremely abrasive towards anyone who was running the concerts that he was in. But then absolutely bring the house down and be this fantastically, uh, charismatic performer. Um, so a bit of an enfant to read in that way. Yeah. Yeah. No, that makes sense. Yeah.

[01:37:38] Enfant Terrible is a good way to, um, to describe Kieran Culkin's character. Well, uh, we will obviously be talking about this again when it comes to acting. As I said, uh, I do think that Eisenberg deserved a nod there and he deserved a directing nod. And I think this should be a best picture nomination, but it only got the two, this and acting. If you want to watch it for yourself, it's on Hulu or video on demand. And, and it also got two BAFTA nominations. And that brings us to the finale.

[01:38:07] We're ending on a high note. If it's just to be believed, um, Anora is now it's two hours and 19 minutes long, by the way, by Sean Baker. Uh, we'll get back to him in a sec. This is now not only considered the front runner in this category, but after the Amelia Perez implosion, this is kind of, this is considered as of this week, the front runner for the best picture as well. How are you feeling about this film overall? This might be where I risk a controversial opinion.

[01:38:37] Okay. Of all of the Sean Baker films that I've seen so far, I would say this is, uh, this is my least favorite and I have some issues with the way that it's structured, but we'll talk about it in a sec. Okay. Okay. Well, so to set it up for anyone who doesn't know Sean Baker, he's, his previous films are, let's see, Tangerine, uh, The Florida Project, Red Rocket.

[01:39:00] Um, he has a lot of fascination with the lives of sex workers and, but in a very respectful way. So his goal is he immerses himself in the communities because he wants to, um, he wants to highlight these people to sort of remove stigmas. And so it's kind of in a way, the anti-Emilia Perez in that regard, like he really shows a great respect.

[01:39:27] I saw him talking in an interview before Enora came out about, uh, wanting to de-stigmatize sex work, which got me thinking about the last film of his that I'd seen, Red Rocket, uh, in which the sex worker is the worst man you ever met in your entire life who spends the entire film grooming a child. That is my least favorite Sean Baker film, Red Rocket. Fair enough. Fair enough. I quite enjoy Red Rocket. So we're on the opposite ends of this. That's, that's good. Okay. Okay. It makes interesting conversation.

[01:39:55] Um, well, so this, this film was inspired by a story from a friend about a Russian American newlywed who was kidnapped for collateral. That's not quite what happens here in this one. Enora is a young sex worker from Brooklyn. She gets her chance at a Cinderella story when she meets and impulsively marries the son of an, of a Russian oligarch. And once the news reaches Russia though, her fairy tale is threatened as the parents set out for New York to get the marriage annulled.

[01:40:20] And, um, yeah, this one, like I said, five stars for me, it's in my top five, probably top three of the year, which is wild, fun, heartfelt runs the gamut of emotions. And I do have to credit, by the way, he had as a creative consultant, um, Andrea Warehoun, who's a Canadian writer and actress who has a 2018 memoir, Modern Whore about her prior time as a sex worker. So he's really doing the work to set this up.

[01:40:47] Um, but what, what is your issue with the structure? Right. So structurally, um, from the off, the way in which Annie's work is shot, uh, is extremely mundane and seems to be going, uh, very much in Sean Baker's, uh, wheelhouse of making a sex worker's work statement based on the way that that is shot, where equal weight within

[01:41:15] the framing is given to her, um, going on a cigarette break or gossiping with coworkers as, as is her, um, flirting with clients or lap dancing with people. There's the, it's the, it's the same thing. It's just work. It's nothing, um, particularly sexy or they're not, you know, it's setting up that sex work is work. That's fine. That's absolutely great. That's a good position from which to start. Absolutely. I definitely like that.

[01:41:42] But the problem is the film, as many people have mentioned, uh, turns on an absolute dime about an hour in and becomes a complete farce, uh, where, uh, suddenly everything is a joke, whether or not it is the actual jokey stuff or it's Annie's actual emotions within this situation. It's none of it's treated seriously anymore. Or that was how I, that's how it came across to me and structuring it in that way.

[01:42:09] I wouldn't blame you for saying that the message of that structure is, do you think sex work is work? Nope. It's a joke. This whole thing is a, this whole thing is a farce and any relationships they have with clients are worthy of derision. Trying to take them seriously is, is, is, is ridiculous, which puts Sean Baker's perspective. If that is the message he's trying to say, I don't know if it is the message he's trying to say. I don't think so. No, I don't think so. It probably, it probably isn't. I say it's just, it's the way that it came across to me while I was watching it that

[01:42:37] to, to, to so suddenly, um, reject the work that had been going into the front half of the film and, and turn it all into a joke. It seems to be him putting himself in the perspective of the Russian parents within this who also view the relationship as a joke. It, that, that seems to be, that puts him in lockstep there to, to, to be ultimately both him and, um, uh, Vanya's parents are saying, yeah, this, this isn't a real relationship. This doesn't count.

[01:43:06] This is, this, this relationship is, is farcical. Um, and, and so we're going to treat the rest of the film as if the whole thing is farcical, even though really I'm more on board with Annie taking this somewhat seriously. There's more overlap again with the girl with the needle where the need for stability within precarious employment and poverty is, is driving people into making relationships out of comfort. But that's a completely valid choice.

[01:43:35] That's a completely understandable choice from my perspective. And I'm not sure that the film agrees. Um, yeah, I completely disagree with that take personally, because what I really like about this film is how grounded it is and her perspective throughout. And yes, like things get wild, but you still feel for her. And for me, again, like I said, with, um, nickel boys, where I was lacking the, uh, ability to

[01:44:01] see the actor's faces for here and this with, and we should say Mikey Madison is, um, if Demi Moore loses to anyone for best actress, it better be to Mikey Madison. Um, her micro expressions. Yeah. Yeah. She's a lot of fun and she does all that well. And she, she learned Russian for this film. She learned pole dancing for this film. She, you know, she, um, yeah, she really threw her all into this and, and does a phenomenal job.

[01:44:27] But for me, what's especially stands out is the small moments when something happens and she can't, she's not the type of person who's just going to be like, here are my feelings. And, you know, she's kind of, uh, she's used to being kicked in life. And so she kind of kicks first, even there's another character who's constantly trying to help her. And she's, she literally kicks him a lot. Um, but when the camera zooms in on her face and these, and she realizes the moment she realizes

[01:44:56] that, wow, yeah, I don't want to, I don't want to spoil anything, but she comes to certain realizations throughout, like that this was all a farce with the whole relationship. And I don't think that that means that I don't think he's siding with the parents at all. I think he's saying, look how shallow and awful the parents are, but actually maybe the son's kind of worse than them. But she is always to me, the one who she's the emotional center of the movie.

[01:45:25] And, and she's the person who I'm constantly pulling for. And you get to the point and you're like, how could this possibly end well for her in any way? And then I don't know if it did, but here's a question without spoiling it. What do you think of the ending of the final ending? So much. And the tone changes again. The tone does change again. Yeah, I absolutely know what you mean in the last, in the last few moments of the film.

[01:45:50] Um, um, we certainly move away from treating this all as a joke all of a sudden. Uh, and I'm not sure that enough work had then been put into taking the character seriously when the last hour of the film preceding that had been treating her situation. Um, so farcically there's, there's, there's films in which that kind of a term really works,

[01:46:14] but in general, it's not like consistent, um, uh, joking behavior beforehand. And the film that comes to mind is Four Lions, where there's also large amounts of Four Lions, which is a complete joke. And, and yet it has a serious beat towards the end, but that serious beats not in isolation. There've been actually quite a few serious beats spread throughout, um, this ridiculous situation that ever, that these characters have been in.

[01:46:39] And, uh, Riz Ahmed's relationship with his family was always taken seriously. Whereas once you hit that turn, once you hit the turn in Anora, nothing's taken seriously again, up until the very, up until the dying moments. And so ultimately that, that serious beat towards the end felt a bit more shallow to me. Yeah. I can see why, if that's how you felt about the middle part, I can see why you would feel that way about the end.

[01:47:06] But for me, it was laced with these serious beats throughout. Like it has this levity and this comedy and this, you know, high action element. Um, but it kept for me coming back to Annie, um, and to how she is processing this and how this is not even just about this relationship for her. This is about like her hopes being dashed and about what does she want from her life?

[01:47:34] And, you know, uh, just the mirror, it holds up to herself and, and also just her, her stubbornness, how she digs in. Um, and she really advocates for herself as well. So for me, it was, it had that backbone of seriousness, but then with the fun thrown on top through most of the middle. Yeah. So I guess overall your, you know, your experience of this film is going to be on whether you

[01:48:04] connect with those small moments that, that I saw that you felt were missing. So, um, but I guess, which is your favorite then of, of his, of Sean Baker's films? Um, I guess the Florida project is, is pretty fantastic. I think that strikes a great balance between the humor of, uh, Red Rocket or even the latter half of this, and then also the humanity, uh, of so many of his films and the amount of,

[01:48:33] uh, that he gives towards. Florida project is another, his other most popular one. If anyone wants to see more Sean Baker. Yeah. So, um, Onora also premiered at Cannes in competition, but this is the film that actually won the Palm door. And it's, as I said, the current favorite, not only in this care category, but for best picture overall. And, uh, my favorite film of the year is Dune part two. It's not going to win in that category. It probably gets some tech stuff.

[01:49:02] So I couldn't be happier to see this as the front runner, uh, in that case. Um, you can watch it on video on demand and also got seven BAFTA nominations and it's been sweeping a lot of awards recently, like the director's award, producers guild award. Yeah. It's been doing quite well recently. Do you have any other favorite films of this year that you want to shout out whether or not they're nominated? Uh, that is a good question.

[01:49:30] I mean, to be honest, the one that I would have loved to see nominated was, um, devil's bath that we talked about earlier. I thought that was a really interesting, um, deconstruction of that phenomenon within its timeframe and gave real humanity to the kinds of stories, uh, of women that are overlooked by history. Um, uh, well, what other ones would I really have loved to have seen come through? Um, I did enjoy the heretic for what it was. It's just as a pretty, um, pretty good, uh, fun time.

[01:50:01] Um, and honestly, the one that I am really excited to see nominated as much as it is, is the substance. It's great to see a film that goes that hard, uh, but is that potentially divisive, uh, have as much fun as it does and end up as an award season darling. Yeah. Now I'm glad to see more, yeah, more, more genre films in general getting, I think, deserved

[01:50:28] attention because I think that, I mean, obviously I am a genre film fan in particular, you know, science fiction, um, fantasy horror are my favorite genres. And I think the reason why is because they just, they give you, uh, a way to explore our own world in this sort of hyper-colored reality where you can tease out more, yeah, the satire in this case with the substance or, you know, can tease out other possibilities.

[01:50:58] Uh, so yeah. I must say I'm very excited for Mickey 17 come out and for everybody who enjoyed Parasite as their first Bong Joon-ho film to learn what the tone of a normal Bong Joon-ho film is. How crazy that's going to be. Yeah. I'm excited about that. That one's coming pretty soon too. That's going to be, that's another one that people like thought might be a big awards contender, but now it's coming out rather early in the year.

[01:51:24] So I'm curious to see if it does play into awards, um, prospects at all as the year goes on. Do you know what? We have been so conditioned by previous runs on award season for every award season film to come out within a two month period of time at the back end of the year. And I think one of the things that is most interesting about the difficult times that theatrical releases are having at the moment and the ways that that's shaking up a normal release calendar,

[01:51:53] uh, is that suddenly people are being really surprised to see stuff like Challengers or even Mickey 17 coming out at what doesn't feel like the right moment. Um, but potentially for it to, I know that Challengers didn't get any nominations in the end, potentially for that reason. Um, but hopefully this is something which will shake up that concept and allow for films outside of, you know, October onwards to get some nominations. Yeah.

[01:52:19] I mean, we saw obviously everything everywhere all at once came out rather early in the year and that did much better than people expected because of that. But then this year we have Dune part two, which came out rather early in the year. And I think that it's really suffered for that. I guess last year was Bob and Haimu. And that was such a specific phenomenon that I wasn't too much emphasis on the time period in which it came out being, uh, a factor. Yeah.

[01:52:45] I mean, I would just in general like to see awards contenders come through from throughout the year because I'm sick of scrambling in January to get to see the Oscar nominated films. 100%. Well, thank you again so much, Mark, for, for this conversation. And, uh, yeah, I am very curious about what you think about the other films you hadn't yet gotten a chance to see, particularly The Brutalist. I'll, uh, I'll send some voice notes in if I get around to seeing them.

[01:53:15] Okay. All right. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Thank you again, Mark. And if you're around or will be around the Nottingham region, check the show notes for a link to his Rambling Cinema series, which combines the best of film with deeper discussions. And I just want to add that, uh, since Mark and I recorded this, I've been doing a deep dive into the making of the substance and in particular, the script.

[01:53:44] And I have to say that is now probably my favorite to win this category, even on paper. It's an absolute work of art. So I'll add a link in the show notes to a behind the scenes doc. Just, it's just, it's less than 10 minutes. Um, it's directed by Coralie Farge herself, the director, and it shows you what the script looks like and how one scene in particular was translated from page to screen. And it's, it's really incredible.

[01:54:10] So yeah, I guess I'm going to throw my, uh, original screenplay vote that direction. Now also checking in with the BAFTA update on these categories. Um, I regret to say that the international prize, the BAFTA for a film, not in the English language went to Amelia Perez. The adapted screenplay prize went to Conclave confirming the love for that film out there, which also took home the top prize at BAFTA is actually the top two in original screenplay.

[01:54:39] A real pain beat out Honora, the substance, the brutalist and BAFTA only, but very worthy nominee. I keep talking about kneecap to take home best original screenplay. Um, I'm obviously, yeah, I'm happy for the, a real pain win. I am a fan of that film. You just heard me talking about how much I love it, uh, especially in screenplay and directing though all three of these categories that we talked about in this episode still feel up in the air for the Oscars.

[01:55:06] Also keep an eye out for the independent spirit awards and SAG awards results. Um, the spirit awards are going to begin shortly after I'm recording this very message right now. So you can catch up with the spirit awards on YouTube and the SAG awards are airing on Sunday on Netflix. And, um, I mean, I usually SAG kind of is a better indicator for the Oscars. It's where the screen actors guild. So it's the actors branch voting. And that's one of the biggest parts of the Academy.

[01:55:35] Uh, but there's actually a lot of best picture nominees that are up for independent spirit awards this year. Often, you know, there's a budget cap for the spirit awards and often Oscar films don't qualify. But this year, Anora, Nickel Boys, The Brutalist, The Substance all up for awards there. Although Anora is expected to continue to do well at both those awards. If it doesn't though, hmm, then that may change predictions for the final ceremony.

[01:56:03] Anyway, if you're interested in all this, then come chat with us all about it on Discord, where there's a special award season channel, undercurrent shows, as well as channels for everything else that we talk about. We definitely also want to hear your thoughts on this year's Oscar crop and what your other top movies of the year were, especially if you can record a voice message about what exactly you loved and why. And then email that to Oscars at the lorehounds.com so that we can include you in the conversation in the finale.

[01:56:29] And if you enjoyed this episode, please do share it with someone else you think might like some Oscars insights to give them the edge in their office Oscar pool or cocktail party. Next up, we're going to be entering the final stretch of Oscars prep. See you all to talk about the so-called tech awards, which I like to call the blockbuster awards because they're the films you're most likely to have seen yourself and listen to us talking about on this channel in particular.

[01:56:54] And then we wrap up with the final two episodes talking about the acting and directing prizes and finally the 10 best picture nominees finale with David. In the meantime, check the show notes for links to all the episodes in this series so far, plus last year's series, not to mention this year's Oscar nominated movies that we've done deep dives into. And also watch his feed for a new Silmarillion stories episode, a Mindjohn's reaction to Captain

[01:57:22] America, which is coming right after this one and a Lorehounds play about the new Indiana Jones game. And if you're a Severance fan, of course, uh, you should already be subscribed to the separate Severance Lorehounds feed. Supercast and Patreon subscribers, of course, getting the extra Severance topic deep dives, which are also available through a discounted season pass and, uh, subscribers will also

[01:57:46] have the daredevil prep episode coming from John and I, a second breakfast episode this month's 11 sees, which is a David Lynch's racer head, et cetera, et cetera. You can explore the link tree in the show notes to find all this stuff and also explore the affiliates. We'll shift dust, which is starting Dune stuff. Now the Star Wars Canon timeline podcast, radioactive ramblings covering Invincible at the moment, nevermind the music. And of course, no true Lorehounds episode is ever over until we shout out the people who

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[01:59:34] See you soon to talk about the Visual and Editing Awards and gush some more about our favorite films of the year on this podcast. Wait, what is that? The first in a string of opportunities to talk about Dune Part 2, you say? Listen out, Gaib! The Lorehounds Podcast is produced and published by The Lorehounds. You can send questions and feedback and voicemails at thelorehounds.com slash contact. Get early and add free access to all Lorehounds

[02:00:02] podcasts at patreon.com slash the Lorehounds. Any opinions stated are ours personally and do not reflect the opinion of or belong to any employers or other entities. Thanks for listening. Hey, still here? Since I recorded that outro, the Spirit Awards have aired, so here are the most relevant highlights for those who are interested. On the TV side, first of all, the competition is brutal for the acting categories. Ten people of any gender from any TV show or made-for-TV film

[02:00:29] up against each other. Lots of love for the Agatha cast in the chat, and Patti LuPone, Joe Locke, and Katherine Hahn were all presenters, but Baby Reindeer took home basically all the acting prizes on the TV side. Shogun also did well winning Best New Fiction Series, the only one to beat Baby Reindeer in any category, though members of the cast did lose to Baby Reindeer in the acting.

[02:00:55] On the film side, A Real Pain won screenplay, but it was not up against The Substance or Anora. And Flo won the international award, but it wasn't up against I'm Still Here or Amelia Perrette. So for those two, that's a great sign for them. Hard to say how much it means when it's competing with those other films that are considered more direct competitors. No Other Land, the documentary about

[02:01:23] the Palestinian West Bank won the documentary category, which is a good sign for the film that it's the favorite to win for the Oscar. Meanwhile, another one that was considered the favorite, Sugarcane, lost in the truer than fiction category to a lesser known film called A Photographic Memory. So that's not really a good sign for Sugarcane, which, yeah, again, was once considered one of the

[02:01:46] front runners. I Saw the TV Glow is a surreal horror film about a retro TV show that may be more real than it seems. And if you listen to the Amelia Perez controversy episode, Aki recommended that one, and I called it one of my faves of the year as well. That one won the Producers Award that, yeah, got some love. There's also getting lots of love in the chat, I have to say.

[02:02:11] And Kieran Culkin continues his winning streak, taking home best supporting performance for A Real Pain, proving he's almost a lock at the Oscars in that category. And hopefully he will show up to the Oscars because he's been missing at all these other ceremonies, apparently because he's in New York prepping for Glengarry Glen Ross on Broadway. The big story, though, is that Anora continues its winning streak, leading lead performance,

[02:02:39] director, and best feature. And yeah, Anora's front runner status at the Oscars and at least lead actress and best picture feel secure. And also just a shout out to the bittersweet time twisty coming of age movie, My Old Ass with Aubrey Plaza, which won a very competitive best breakthrough performance category for young lead actress Maisie Stella. That one's available to watch on Prime Video in the Netherlands,

[02:03:04] at least. As this episode is released, the Screen Actors Guild Awards will air on Netflix tonight and be available to watch there after that as well. So listen until the end of the Acting Awards episode coming in a couple days for updates from the last major Oscar precursor. All right, that's it for now. See you for the Blockbuster Awards.

[02:03:33] Hey everyone, David here. Severance is back. The Lorehounds are partnering with Properly Howard to bring you in-depth weekly coverage of Season 2. Join me, John, Anthony, and Steve as we unpack every twist, theory, and revelation. We've created a dedicated feed just for our Severance coverage.

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[02:04:53] we're happy to share all of our secrets. Find the link for the Severance feed in the show notes below, or search Severance Lorehounds wherever you get your podcasts. Come theorize with us about what's really happening at Lumen.