Oscars 2025 – The 10 Best Picture Nominees

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[00:01:38] with us about what's really happening at Lumen. Welcome to the Lorehounds Oscars 2025 prep series

[00:02:26] grand finale. I'm Alicia, and I have here with me today to wrap up this huge blitz of Oscars content. David, thank you for joining today to talk about the Best Picture nominees and just kind of recap this whole thing. That's right. How are you doing? Thanks for having me back, and how was your death race? Did you survive? You're alive, so you survived. Right. Well, I mean, yeah, the Oscars part of the

[00:02:53] death race, that's always the simpler side. It's 50 films, but I've been watching them the entire year, and I always get a jumpstart on the shorts and things like that. So I finished that a few weeks ago. I got the last stragglers. Yeah, I saw you. I'm still here and death by numbers. Nice. Yeah. So now it's been, you know, we had this idea this year to split it up into different content, to different, you know, the different categories rather than trying to...

[00:03:21] Yeah. Yeah. Of course, this coincided with the year of the fires when it was really short. So it's been a complete deep dive into the creation of the Oscars content. And I know it's coming hard and fast for people. So hoping to get... This is the last episode that we're recording before the Oscars. So hoping to get this out a few days before the Oscars and then, you know, just give people time

[00:03:48] to catch up on, I'm sure this is going to be the most listened to, and then whatever other episodes catch their interest. Nice. Nice. Yeah. And how did you feel the formatting change went this year? Did you like it? It has its pros and cons. I think... I did like starting with the Best Picture nominees last year, just because I think it gives a lot of people a framework of how to approach this whole thing. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

[00:04:14] And now we've kind of... We've reversed that for a few reasons. And also, yeah, like I said, the splitting things into different categories, I think, would have worked better if, you know, we hadn't had... If we hadn't lost a couple of weeks... Right. ...with between, you know, in our timeline. So I think it is a huge blitz of content. I hope people have been enjoying it. We'd love to hear more. We have heard some good things. We've heard some

[00:04:42] good feedback about this version of the content. Okay. I know you've listened to at least some of the previous episodes. I did. I haven't listened to everything, I will admit. It's been, as you said, you know, even with the Oscars itself, just in life in general, it's been a very topsy-turvy month. We've had multiple snow days, and we had our winter break, not to mention what's going on with the current political administration. I don't want to get into that, but we're

[00:05:10] feeling second-order effects in my family. And things are starting to... We're starting to get very nervous about a few things. So it's just been a really jumbled up sort of few months. That said, so all of that aside, I did... And severance. Yes, and severance as well. And that's been going really well. I'm very happy with that. We're down our rhythm there, so that's really nice. But I did listen to a few of them. I listened to

[00:05:38] Nevermind the Oscar music. I really enjoyed that conversation with Mark. That was awesome. And I listened to the Emilia Perez. And I listened to... Did I wish... I didn't listen to the Wicked. Obviously, I was on Conclave. Right. And Dune. I listened to the intro for Nosferatu. And then, of course, I was involved with Romulus

[00:06:03] and Planet of the Apes. But all of the other ones for animated and documentary and all that kind of stuff, those are all saved in my queue. So I'm sort of slow parsing them out. Because I really want to hear some of the interviews that you had. It sounds like you had a great lineup of guests this year. Yeah. And I would say to people, even if you don't get to some of the episodes until after the Oscars, well, yeah, maybe that doesn't help you in your prediction contest, but it still

[00:06:30] helps you to understand what was nominated, why these films were nominated, and help you pick out which ones you might want to listen to yourself. Yeah. And I'm really curious, too, because you've got... I mean, watch. Watch yourself. Watch. Yeah. Yeah. And I want to see, based on maybe what won, here are some of the background mechanics for what got nominated. And I'm very curious about the animated features and shorts, because

[00:06:56] you had the gentleman on who actually works on Oscar campaigns. That sounds really fascinating. Yeah. He did six of the campaigns this year. Yeah. Amazing. Well, yeah. To catch up on, for anyone who hasn't been able to get through all the episodes, which I'm sure is most people listening, we started with, it was an intro episode with you and I, just about 30 minutes. We did a quick look at the quirks of the season and the ceremony that's coming up this Sunday. And we'll talk some more about the ceremony at the

[00:07:23] end. There was, as you just mentioned, the animated features and shorts episode where I interviewed Benoit from Animation Showcase, who, yeah, indeed, he was working on six out of the 10 nominated films feature campaigns this year. Was he just doing the PR? Or he wasn't advocating for... He was just doing a bunch of background work or something. What do you mean?

[00:07:49] Oh, I'm just thinking if he had... Because if I'm a filmmaker and we hire this PR film to run our campaign, then that we're, we're, we have a vested interest in winning. So if he's working on six... Right. Well, I mean, so... Maybe he explains that in the interview. He's working on one of the features and I have to, I have to shout out, thank you so much to members of the community who have, you know, been calling in, have been sending

[00:08:16] us voicemails and sending us other feedback with their thoughts on the various films and categories. And we're going to hear more from members of the community later this episode. But yeah, so he, he did one of the feature animated films, my personal favorite memoir of a snail. And he did all five of the shorts and it's just, and he does talk about this more and we've talked about this more in prior coverage of shorts, but it's a different

[00:08:44] process with the shorts because they're not, they don't get, they get the shorts packages in the U S theaters, which were kind of also rushed this year because of the fires and everything. Uh, so, but they have to make their name through festivals. They have to have a platform where they're exposed. He provides that platform where people who work in the industry can watch all of these things. It's, uh, where I watch them because of my background at Blender.

[00:09:11] Thank you. Um, and yeah, it's, uh, it's a slightly different thing. So the major thing with the shorts is getting them the exposure. Okay. Right. So just getting them out there. Right. So people can actually evaluate them. Right. Exactly. Cool. Exactly. Um, yeah, I, I really enjoyed original scores and songs with, with Mark from nevermind the music. Um, that was a really good one. Yeah. Yeah. I think I probably put

[00:09:37] the most physical work into putting that episode together because I put together all those clips packages, but I really, yeah, yeah. Good job. Yeah. I like your listener. It is, it's fun. We love what we do, but that kind of stuff of getting clips packages together, it takes a lot of precise work and you've got to be really present with the material that you're working and then getting it integrated. So it lays in and go in, in, it comes in and out in the proper way. So yeah,

[00:10:05] really, really nicely done. But it was looking at the music with that sort of closeness actually changed which, um, music I was rooting for and also changed how I feel about one of the films. So we'll talk more about that, but I did talk about that, that in that episode as well. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah. Documentary features and shorts, uh, which also included a BAFTA's update at the end, cause that's the one that came out right after that. Um, that was a really like documentaries are

[00:10:33] always kind of, um, more difficult topic for me to talk about, to talk about in general, but especially in a time now where, as you say, there are so many worries in the world and, um, therefore the nominated crop is quite serious. Right. Especially in the feature side. Um, so it was really great to get Rebecca June Lane, who is herself a documentary editor in to, uh, to talk about, first of all, just, you know, the, the job of editing documentaries,

[00:11:03] which is she points out is kind of in a lot of ways, writing the documentaries in that sense. Um, and also to get, yeah, her input on, on what makes like, what should we be looking for in these documentaries to say, is this award worthy or not? Uh, right. Right. So that was, it was a great conversation and it was, yeah, it was good to just be able to, um, talk about the films and. I, you know, have some, have some laughs in the dark moments. That's kind of been a theme of this year in

[00:11:32] general. Right. Right. Um, and yeah, the live action shorts episode is, that's one of my favorite categories. Always live action shorts. Um, this year was an especially good year. So I did a shorter episode with my friend Catherine October Matthews, who invented this tool called the emotion mixer. So it's like a color wheel. Cool. Yeah, actually. Yeah. I'm wearing it's behind me on the shelf,

[00:11:55] but it's like a, um, but it helps you frame, you know, how emotions interact. Like for instance, one thing we were talking about serenity and, um, triumph and depression come together to create serenity and yeah, just all these really interesting conversations about emotion theory. So that was a fun episode. Is that a, like online somewhere or something? What's it called? The emotion mixer.

[00:12:22] Yeah. I mean, it's a, it's a physical tool I did in the show notes. I linked, uh, to where you can see it online. I think it's just like emotion mixer.com. Um, but yeah, yeah, it's, it's a really cool tool that just helps the ideas to help creatives, you know, think about how they're storytelling basically in their projects, whether it's visual arts or written arts or things like that. So, uh, cause Catherine

[00:12:45] is both types of artists. Um, yeah, um, international and adapted and original screenplays. This is where we're getting into, you know, the quote unquote bigger awards, uh, for, for these last episodes, I had members of the Academy of death racers come in to help me talk through these categories. So, um, great conversation with Mark from the Academy of death racers about international and adapted and

[00:13:10] original screenplays. Um, great talk with Logan who did the kingdom of the planet of the apes coverage with me about, uh, the tech awards. I like to call them the blockbuster awards because it's better branding, but basically these are the films that you're most likely to have seen as a listener at home. You know, this is, uh, obviously Dune did very well in these and kingdom of the planet,

[00:13:34] the apes and alien Romulus. Um, yeah. And then that also includes the independent spirit awards update, uh, acting and directing awards, uh, with Paulo from the Academy of death racers includes the SAG awards update, which was the last major precursor. And actually we're going to talk a bit about the SAG awards as we go through here because it has shaken up some of the races. Interesting. Yeah. I saw some headlines, uh, peeking through my newsfeed the other day.

[00:14:03] Yeah. I mean, maybe not shaken up as much as like told us that, um, things are not locked in a few key categories. Uh, big and because the actors screen actors guild, like the actors branch is the largest voting branch at the Academy. So what they vote for holds a lot of weight with the final awards. Interesting. And then, yeah, here we are for the best picture nominees this episode. Great. Yeah. I also want to point out in the show notes, you'll find links to all those episodes,

[00:14:32] but also you'll find links into our deep dives into white. Sorry. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven of, um, this year's 50 nominees. So we did an episode just dedicated to the Amelia Perez controversy, which you've probably heard a lot about by now. Um, but we just cover the whole evolution of it from the perspective of, um, you know, the Mexican critics and, and trans critics who

[00:14:57] have been complaining about it and also what happened after all that, um, wicked was yeah, a delightful episode with Marilyn, Nicole and I, where we also compared with the book and the play, uh, David, it was you, me, Marilyn and Anthony for conclave. And also podcast. Yeah. Yeah. And going back to early in the year, we also covered doom part two together. And then, um, these next three are not

[00:15:24] best picture nominees, but nose for all to, uh, got four nominations. I did that one with John and John, uh, alien Romulus. There was actually two episodes dedicated to alien Romulus, but you'll find the main one in the show notes. That's right. We did a whole thing. Cause we, it would also coincided with the, uh, 45th anniversary of the 1979 alien movie. And so they released episodes, including that. Yeah, exactly. It was a packed thing. It was fun. That was a fun

[00:15:50] thing to produce. Yeah. Yeah. And that one got a VFX nom and kingdom of the planet of the apes. Um, yeah, you and I, and then Logan came in to talk about the new film. That one also got a VFX nom. Yeah. Cool. A lot of work, a lot of work to track all that stuff. I like having the list in the show notes of, uh, yeah, for sure. But you've been busy with your own, uh, best picture death

[00:16:15] race. How's that going? It went okay. I didn't get a hundred percent completion by the end, uh, by the time of this recording, I was watching, um, I was trying to squeeze in a couple and I haven't finished a couple. Um, and like I said earlier, um, yeah, it's just been a topsy turvy year, but I'm, I did better than I thought I would. And especially over, I don't know what we can talk about when we get

[00:16:42] into it, but a couple of the titles were, it took a little effort to watch them in different ways. Right. You know, good, good and bad. So, um, but there's a couple that I'm really glad that, um, I got to see and, uh, enjoy it. It's a very, this is obviously the first time I've done this. And so reflecting on my experience from last year versus this year, the crop of movies is very different tonally. I mean, there's a couple of things that you could kind of parallel,

[00:17:12] but in other ways, like, wow, it's just a, there's a different vibe this year. And I don't know if you picked up on that, but, uh, uh, as somebody new to this, you know, uh, Oscars, uh, death race game, I'm like, huh, that's a, that's an interesting experience that I had. Yeah. I mean, I would say that there's more, um, there's more variation, more, you know, diversity in the types of, the types of films and where they come from and the tone of

[00:17:38] the films and yeah, I liked it in the genres. Yeah. Go horror, go. Um, yeah, but we're going to be talking through the 10 best picture nominees today. We'll remind you what other awards each was nominated for. So of course, all of these were nominated for awards we've talked about in previous episodes. So they've all been talked about before. If you want to hear more about a movie, then revisit the episodes where there are other awards for. Yeah. We're going to hear, as I said,

[00:18:07] from some members of the community, including some live voices. And we also even got feedback from both of our moms today. It's funny. That's funny. So, um, we're going to be talking through the 10 best picture nominees and reminder, by the way, that this is, um, rank choice voting for those who, for those, you know, in the Academy. So we'll,

[00:18:32] we'll talk about that, especially with one film and how that may factor into who wins the overall best picture. Interesting. But we're going to be talking about them in descending order of the number of nominations that they got. So that means we're starting with Amelia Perez, which, um, it's about a trans woman who contacts a lawyer to help her go through the, um, the whole operation physically

[00:18:58] and, and, uh, changed her life. And then, and we, we should say the trans woman was also a, uh, cartel boss in Mexico. What's our spoiler policy going into this? So spoilers I've been doing overall is to like not spoil the, the endings of films, but we can set it up. Or specific surprises. Yeah. I mean, we don't want to do the big spoilers, but we definitely can bring up plot points as they're relevant to

[00:19:23] the discussion. Okay. But so, uh, yeah, she, she goes to Europe to have this, um, to transition and then comes back pretending to be someone else to try to reclaim her family. And yeah. Um, this one got 13 nominations, best picture, best international feature France, where it's the second favorite now to win. It was previously the first favorite before all the controversy, um, nominated for best director

[00:19:50] for Jacques Godillard, best actress for Carla Sophia Gascon, best supporting actress for Zoe Saldana. That's it's seems almost like a lock that Zoe Saldana will win that one. Okay. Best adapted screenplay, best film editing, best sound, best cinematography, best makeup and hairstyling, best original score, and two best song nominations, El Mal, which is currently still the favorite to win and Mi Camino.

[00:20:19] So David, what were your thoughts on this film? I, um, was mildly aware of some, I want to say controversy isn't the right word, but feedback from, you know, what people were, had concerns about the way the movie was produced and what we saw on screen. And I went into it with

[00:20:44] very little knowledge of, of the details or the issues of that. And I watched the film and then I listened to your episode about it. And then I was like, Oh, I was like, okay, I get it. And I feel like I w I was sort of in that, um, camp of people who are, you know, progressive leaning liberal values, that kind of stuff. Oh, this is great. This is about a, you know, uh, trans issues and disappeared

[00:21:13] people in Mexico and, Oh, it's doing, you know, and it's, it's really bringing these issues to light in this fun, entertaining way. And I don't, not to make entertainment out of those things, but to, to, you know, hit us in our, in our hearts and in our heads and in a different way. To make it accessible. Yeah. Yeah. And then realizing like, Oh, this, um, yeah, it's filled with kinds of things that

[00:21:39] are not appropriate or not respectful or didn't actually sit down and think and talk with people. It's fine for a French male director to direct this film. I don't have a problem with that at all, but yeah, but the fact that he then later said, Oh, I didn't do any research. Yeah. I'm like, okay, these are complex issues that affect real people's lives.

[00:22:03] You're depicting a whole bunch of people who are under threat right now. Um, and, uh, and, and you're depicting a whole population in a country that is struggling with this systemic violence. Uh, and, and, and so many people who've been, whose, whose lives have been cut short and then just disappeared. I mean, that was kind of hitting me as I, uh, when I was watching, uh, I'm still here. Right. And then to do it in a way that's a little bit cavalier and not to sit down with people.

[00:22:34] I fully support, uh, uh, an artist creating and, and using their instinct and then picking the right actor, you know, the actors that, that, that they want to voice and fulfill that kind of thing, but to be so disconnected from the issues. And, and I didn't, I was clearly somebody who was not,

[00:22:55] um, uh, attuned to those issues that were getting, um, that weren't balanced appropriately from the artistic vision versus the reality on the ground. And that's when I was listening to your podcast with your guests talking about some of these issues, I was like, Oh, what if I was, uh, uh, you know, somebody who lived in Mexico and I was more connected to these issues. Uh, you know, what if I had more

[00:23:23] trans people in my life who've gone through, uh, sex change operations and stuff like that, the, the way that things are being depicted or the, the, the way that, um, accents are not being, uh, appreciated. Like, like there's just a whole bunch of things that it's just like, it's like claw. It's clumsy. It's, it's clumsy. I think is the, is the way. Yeah. And so after that, so I was trying to, you know, separate my appreciation of the movie just as an fan entertainment. Okay. Just watching

[00:23:52] this movie and then learning about it after the fact and how that, that changed my perspective coming out of the movie before I really was aware of, of what other shortcomings this film has. I was kind of like, eh, you know, I was like, eh, it didn't, I get why people might be really enthusiastic about this film. I love Zoe Saldana. She is a hardworking actor, man. She is all over

[00:24:18] the place in so many things. And so to see her in, in, in this different role was really great. The, the, the way that they produced it was really cool. The, the, the kind of what, what I want to say about the musical, right. It's, it's following a musical, a tradition of musicals, right. Both stage and film. And I really like how they used it in this filmed way. There was a way

[00:24:44] that they just would rather than, okay, we're having this moment and now we break out in song, sing, you know, it was like, suddenly you were, you're talking and things are happening. And then you just would slip into a song and then you would slip out of it rather than having these big set pieces, you know, like now is the time we sing on the musical. And I really liked that. I thought that was really cool. The lighting was great. The choreography was great. The, the songs,

[00:25:11] the singing stuff was seemed like entertaining. It got me. So yeah. But at the end of the day, I'm kind of like, Hmm, you know, I think I overall the story. And then if, then when I start to think about all of the other shortcomings, it's a little disappointing given the amount of time and effort and money and everything that went into this movie, it could have been something. And I hate to be the, you know, Oh, it should have been, or it could have been kind of, but it could have been something

[00:25:38] different if, if, if, if, if the director had, um, uh, changed his framework a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. No, I agree. Um, I mean, obviously I've spent a lot of time talking about this through all the previous episodes, so I won't, uh, repeat too much stuff, but I'll just say about the three awards where it is, uh, you know, favorite or second favorite to win. Um, you know, you brought up how I'm still here, the, which is also a nominee we'll talk about, uh, at the end of this episode,

[00:26:09] but, um, it's also up against, uh, Amelia Perez in international feature. And, you know, as Dina pointed out, as you pointed out, that's the movie you watched really understand about living in a society where people can just disappear like that. So obviously I really want, I'm still here to beat this one. It's, it's actually, I'm still here as my second favorite

[00:26:35] one in that category. I really like to see the sacred fig fig. Um, but yeah, I really don't want this one to win best international feature over. I'm still here. Best supporting actress, Zoe Saldana is great. I, I, she's, she's danced. She kind of sang she, you know, um, share her acting was definitely not the problem. However, I do object to her being in supporting category because she has the most screen time. And I would say that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:27:05] Carla Sophia, um, Gascon, her character, Amelia Perez, a titular Amelia Perez, but she's more the subject of the film rather than the entire film is through Zoe Saldana's character's eyes, the lawyer's eyes. So I'm like, okay, fine. But I think. Right. And she's our, our protagonist throughout the whole thing. She's the one who's, who goes through the most, um, um, psychological changes, I guess, in some way, because she's under pressure. I don't want to spoil too much,

[00:27:34] but like the, her relationship to the, you know, the cartel boss and ultimately her client, there's an element of danger there. There's a, there's things. And so she goes through some, some other things that we follow her, like you said, we follow her more. And so they really put her more center than, so it's strange. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, and as far as best original song, El Mal, I just don't like that song. I think the lyrics are stupid. I don't like it musically.

[00:28:03] I just, um, so I would want one of the other ones to win, but I guess, you know, I guess the reason why it's the favorite is because it's something different. Uh, maybe people find it fresh. Uh, but in that case, I think they should have, they should have nominated the kneecap song. You're going to hear more about kneecap later from other people other than me and the feedback, but I keep championing this Irish, uh, hip hop film that's on Netflix and it's just such a fun,

[00:28:28] brilliant watch. And yeah, that song should have gotten in, um, or it should be the favorite if you want something different in my opinion, but that's just me. So I asked David, uh, for if, if you would rank this, I'm not going to surprise anyone by saying that in terms of the, my personal picks for best picture winner, this is in 10th place for me. No surprise, I think to anyone, but

[00:28:51] right. What about you? Do you have a, uh, well, um, I have not completed a ranking. I know you messaged me the other day. I literally have pieces of paper right now as we're talking, I'm doing my sorting. And I think, I think this year, like I was saying before about my experience from last year, I felt really clear about where films would, were falling into their place relative to each other.

[00:29:20] Where this year for whatever variety of reasons, it's less clear to me. So I'm kind of using our conversation right now to do my ranking. And so what I did to start with is, as I like, okay, okay. This film, is it above the line of five or is it below the line of five? Okay. Does that make sense? And so then I can sort of, uh, uh, pick my tops and my bottoms. And of

[00:29:46] course now my cat wants to eat my pencil and, and, uh, and snuggle with me while I'm trying to do this. So it makes it a little bit hard. I'm sorry, Kitty. Flow is not in today's. Yeah. No, flow is not, uh, not available for you. Uh, wintertime, you know, they, they want the laps all the time. Um, so yeah, so, so this is below the five line. Okay. So should we check in at the end then and see? Yeah. And I'll give you indications as for each one, as we go, I'll tell you if it's above or below.

[00:30:15] And while we're working these out, I'm, I'm actually doing real time pen and pencil paperwork. Okay. Okay. Um, so the next film is one of the two films with 10 nominations. We're going to talk about the brutalist first. And the brutalist is about, um, it's about a, uh, Hungarian architect who survives the world war II concentration camps. And he comes to the U S or goes to the U S I'm not

[00:30:45] there. Um, and it's about him trying to start a life there and, and his, his wife and his, uh, patron who supports him. And yeah, the brutalist title refers to a style of architecture. I should say that architects are really mad at this film because there's actually a special podcast that they, um, uh, three architects, three prominent American architects got together to create a one-off

[00:31:13] podcast just to complain about this film. But, uh, and I should also say this is the longest one by far. It's three and a half hours with an intermission. Okay. So part of my, um, dealing with, uh, the process of my own personal best picture death race was the length of some of these films. It took me three sittings to go through this and three, uh, two sittings to go through nickel boys,

[00:31:42] three sittings for the substance and three sittings for the brutalist. Yeah. And it's just like, ah, like, come on with these long films, you know, like, you know, a couple hours. Okay. I get it. Right. But you know, Oh boy. Yeah. I watched it in the theater and you know, yeah. So it's three and a half hours plus 15 minute intermission plus getting there and back. That was, you know, I did it in the evening. That was my entire evening. Right. Exactly. Exactly. I had the luxury of watching

[00:32:09] it from home. And, uh, even then it was, uh, I really had to plan my time for it. So yeah. Yeah. Um, but this one, it got 10 nominations, uh, best picture, which it was once considered a front runner for best picture. It's now in third place, but there's two other films that have firmly taken the top two spots we'll talk about. Um, it is still one of the potential favorites for best director for

[00:32:33] Brady, Brady Corbet. Um, it is the favorite for best actor for Adrian Brody, but Timothy Chalamet threw a wrench in that by winning at SAG. Um, it is, it's in second place for best supporting actor for Guy Pearce, but it is in such a distant second place after Kieran Culkin, uh, that it's, yeah, it's not going to happen. Um, it was nominated for best supporting actress for Felicity Jones,

[00:32:59] best original screenplay, um, best original score by Daniel Blumberg is it's has it's actually the favorite to win. And it's actually surprisingly my favorite to win. I got into it on the music episode about how listening to this score closely and examining it helped me like the film better. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, it's also one of the top two, uh, potential favorites to win for best

[00:33:25] cinematography done by Lowell Crawley. Um, it's nominated for best editing and it is, uh, one of the favorites, potential favorites to win for best production design. Okay. So yeah. All of that makes sense. Yeah. Uh, so you, here we are. I mean, yeah, I, I've, I've talked through already

[00:33:52] that it's not what I'll just say now that it's, it's my ninth place rank. And for me that has to do, especially with the directing. I really don't like the directing. I talk about that more in that episode, but just basically, I don't think he brought the best out of the actor. I don't like the decisions that are made that, um, shape the rest of it. Um, best actor, Adrian Brody. Sure. Yeah. Why not? No complaints. Yeah. Um, best score. Yeah. I already said that's actually my favorite best

[00:34:21] cinematography. No, we'll talk to others, but I mean, I think the cinematography is one of the best parts of the film, but well, no, actually, sorry. I take that back. I think the production design is one of the best part of the films, but it's a very, so production design is the look of what you are shooting and cinematography is how you shoot it. Right. Right. So I like the production

[00:34:45] design, but it's up against some hugely heavy hitters. Um, so I wouldn't go for that cinematography. Again, I talked about that in the acting and directing episode. Um, I just, I like the directing just do not agree with a lot of the decisions made and they didn't feel purposeful, um, in, in the way that others that should have been nominated for cinematography, like better man and,

[00:35:12] uh, the substance, those both had very purposeful, very innovative cinematography. And I don't think it's fair that this one is here for a lot of, uh, low angle shots for seemingly no reason, but anyway, but you had something you wanted to chime in because you used to live in Budapest. Yeah. So, uh, on a couple of things, I have my opinions about the movie, but I know that there was

[00:35:38] some conversation around the issue of, um, using some technology to aid with the pronunciations. Now I don't profess to know all of the ins and outs and what the specific criticisms are. I think there's a tendency right now to just, you know, throw AI, the word AI around at anything and everything kind of

[00:36:03] without it's, it's, there are all kinds of digital manipulations that don't involve AI there. You know, there's machine learning, there's large language models, there's generative AI, right? So there's a lot of different, you know, nuances. These are all AI, but I, yeah, the question is, is it problematic AI or is it just genuinely helpful AI that's not stealing from people or trying to replace? Exactly. And I don't know what they did with it. Right. And that's what I'm saying about,

[00:36:30] you know, the generative like large language models versus, uh, image generators or video generators. And yeah, there's, uh, uh, in the world of Adobe, like say with photography, there's machine learning where they've taken licensed photos and just trained, uh, algorithms on, uh, what is a properly toned or balanced photo. Right. And that's perfectly legitimate. We call it machine learning actually in that world. Um, and so that's why when you can click

[00:36:58] auto develop, you know, boom, uh, you know, the picture looks eight times out of 10, it doesn't look bad. Right. So all of that aside, wait, we're like, so what, what was actually applied here? Did somebody's work get stolen or not? I don't, I don't know. But on the other side of it, I will say that having lived in Hungary, I have a funny story about that. We were coming home from a trip one day, we were in the taxi from the train station and we

[00:37:26] used to live on Veseleni Utsa, Veseleni street. And we get in the taxi and we say, oh yeah, you know, uh, we live on, you know, Veseleni Utsa. And the driver just sort of looks at us quizzically and we're like, Veseleni Utsa, Veseleni Utsa, Veseleni Utsa, Veseleni Utsa. Like we just tried every blender combination. We finally had to write it down and he was like,

[00:37:53] oh, that's, you know, whatever the correct pronunciation is. Hungarian language is super precise in its tonalities. And, uh, I've had, uh, you know, friends that live there, both Hungarians and expats when they would explain things to me, like just how incredibly ornate and specific and all the kinds of different combinations of, of meaning and emotion that

[00:38:20] you can impart with all of this kind of stuff. So it's a, it's incredibly rich language with incredibly precise pronunciations. And if they used some kind of technological tool to help Brody and Felicity Jones and any other characters to achieve a more accurate pronunciation, I don't have a specific problem with that as long as whomever was involved is,

[00:38:47] was fairly compensated and what have you. Right. That's always, that's always the key with AI. And we should have asked Abby to, um, weigh in on Hungarian pronunciation. So yeah. Abby, send us your thoughts. Yeah. Uh, so when we look back then at Amelia Perez, where like they're, wait, okay, this is in Mexico city. This has a particular accent. It's like, okay, you know, there's some allowances that we make, right? You know, a certain actor or whatever, that's fine. And I, I'm not saying that you have to go to the nth degree with using some sort of, uh,

[00:39:16] technological solution for Amelia Perez, but at least in the, in the brutalist, they tried, you know, they tried to do the, uh, they tried to do justice to a very beautiful and ornate and complex language. Right. And Amelia Perez actually did use, um, AI was also a quote unquote controversy, but I'm also fine with this version where they used it to blend Carla Sophia Gascon singing voice with, I think with Camille who is, um, Camille is a singer, a French singer. She's on the soundtrack.

[00:39:46] She is the wife of the, um, composer for that film. So, um, yeah. And obviously she granted her permission, you know, she's, uh, one of the major creative forces behind that film. So, um, yeah, it's funny. They did use AI for that, but definitely not for the Mexican accent. Right. But otherwise with the, the brutal, brutalist in general, the, I am so, uh, for, for my frustration

[00:40:15] with the movie is, and I know a lot of people and I'm not trying to yuck anybody's yum, but this is just my experience of it. It started out, I was clear. I understood what the story was. It's an immigrant story. It's a story of surviving the Holocaust. It's a story of lost family, you know, separated families. It's a story of, um, uh, uh, immigrants coming to another country and,

[00:40:37] and being able to flourish or find some pathway. There's the whole like, uh, you know, rich benefactor and, you know, uh, sort of story. Like there's a lot of standard, you know, or, or things that are, are not unknown. And then the movie sort of gets into its middle and I kind of got lost. I wasn't sure what the point was anymore or what, what was you were trying to tell me. And then we get the end

[00:41:03] with the, with the little 15 minute, um, epilogue and I get some of that, but then it just punches me in the gut in a good way where the niece on explains to us this whole other dimension to the architecture. And I was just like, Oh my God, that's so beautiful. Like why did you make me wait for so long to get this thing? And I get the, I get ramping up dramatic tension,

[00:41:33] but I just felt like a lot of my time was wasted on a lot of middle stuff that didn't really, uh, bring me. So, you know, fine. He has this tragic fall and then, and then they do a thing where, Oh, but he was very successful in the end. And then like, here's the real deeper meaning of this particular piece of work. Yeah. Why, why did you make me sit for three hours? I don't understand it because there's a really good story in there. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, that's my, I mean, you

[00:42:00] know, aside from the directing and cinematography, my, my biggest, I guess, gripe with it is just the, um, this fact that there are, they're trying to do too many things at once. So it winds up that they don't do most of them particularly well. And it ends up like there are characters that are introduced that just disappear. I'm like, well, wait, how does that story resolve? Okay. Um,

[00:42:25] exactly. So yeah, it just didn't feel like it was, it felt like an earlier draft, you know, where it needed a few more passes, where it got more focused. Like they definitely could have cut an hour out of this easily. And it, and I would have been, I think I, I would have felt like I would have connected with the ups and downs and the drama of, um, this passionate visionary's life.

[00:42:51] Yeah. And, um, you know, and, and if that's what you're trying to drive, and then this question of architecture and how architecture affects us psychologically and spiritually. And I, and I, I, I, I, I accept that argument that design has an effect on the design aesthetic and building

[00:43:14] aesthetics affect us in ways in the environments that we live in an exploration of that, you know, uh, uh, the, I think the, the exploration of the, uh, of a Jewish immigrant story, uh, especially from Hungary, which is not an area that we talked about. There's so much richness there and so many important topics in there, but then we got lost in the, in the marble mines of Italy.

[00:43:42] And I'm like, what is going on? And, you know, um, was this on the architecture side? I will put a link in the show notes for anyone who wants to hear what the architects have to say about the, the architecture, their critiques on that. Um, which they also, they also go on, they critique the film overall, but they have some obviously much better insights on the actual architecture than I can give. Um, but the marble parts is actually, uh, there's a scene in the

[00:44:08] second half where they go to the marble mines. Um, and that is a cited by a lot of people as their favorite scene in the movie. And, and certainly it contributed to, um, to the production design and cinematography nominations. Very. Yeah. There's some very interesting things. And then there's some stuff happens with the characters and whatever, but you know, again, it was a, this, this good,

[00:44:34] again, core cool ideas, things that were interesting to explore visually. Cause the mines were just gorgeous to look at on camera and then having the, you know, the, uh, the party or the celebration that they had in there and all that kind of stuff. And then, I don't know. And then it's like, what does this have to, how does this connect with the other stuff? It just, right. Again, a really cool idea, beautifully visual. I understand that you're, what you're trying, trying to do with the characters, but then it just gets right.

[00:45:01] It's just way too long. And, and we're also, we're trying not to spoil anything, but I should just say general content warning. It might not sound like it from the way we're talking about it, but there is a lot about, I mean, a lot of these have a lot about drugs, uh, a lot about, uh, pornography or talk about that in the music episode. And also there is a sexual assault. So right. Right. Just a heads up there. So this is below the five line for me. It's, um, it'll be, well, I won't give you my final rankings,

[00:45:28] but I I'm writing down some things here. I've got an idea of where it's going to fit in. Okay. Okay. And I should say, by the way, if you want to watch, it's going to be below my five line. Okay. I should say, if you want to watch Amelia Perez, um, that is on Netflix and the brutalist just recently came out on, uh, home on video on demand. So you can watch that one at home now. Um, okay. This is a good place to take our first quick pause. And when we come back, we're going to keep talking about the other eight nominees, starting with wicked. See you in a sec.

[00:46:12] Okay. So we are back to talk about the other film with 10 nominations and that is wicked. And wicked is a, it's an adaptation of a stage play, which is a loose adaptation of one of my favorite novels of all time. So do listen to our deep dive linked in the show notes, uh, for more information about all of that. Uh, but basically it's an alternate telling of, uh, the wizard of

[00:46:39] Oz from the perspective of the wicked witch of the West. And, um, it's been nominated for best picture for best actress for Cynthia Erivo for best supporting actress for Ariana Grande. And it's one of the two favorites there for best costume design on, um, Paul Tazewell. He is the favorite to win and it would make him the first black costume design, uh, male costume design, not a winner in that category. So,

[00:47:10] um, best makeup and hairstyling is another one where it's a favorite to win. It's also nominated in best film editing, uh, best production design. It's a favorite to win best original score. It's nominated. It is a favorite to win in best sound and it's also nominated for best visual effects. And yeah, this is, I have this ranked fourth this year and the fact that, you know, I absolutely love

[00:47:37] everything about this IP. I think that this film completely nailed it, but the fact I still have it ranked fourth just shows that I personally find this a strong year, but also, yeah, there's a lot of genre films this year and we all know I like genre films. Um, I know I, I'm, I should say by the way that we also, um, we have feedback at the end where wicked's definitely going to get some more love, but I know that David, this wasn't necessarily that it didn't appeal to you. Uh, yeah. And I want to be

[00:48:06] very clear. I have nothing against this film. I'd have nothing for this film. It's just kind of a, this one's a neutral for me. I started to watch it. Um, I personally think this is me. I am just sort of over the Academy, you know, a kid goes, kids go away to the Academy kind of storylines. Um, Oh, what was the, um, Oh, what was the one with the Adams family spinoff with the child? Uh,

[00:48:34] Wednesday, Wednesday. Oh my God. This is a million times better than Wednesday. I'm not comparing. I'm just saying the genre, right? You know, obviously, uh, um, uh, Harry Potter. But I should say you didn't finish the film because it's not all about that. Yeah. Okay. Well, that that's fair. Yeah. And, um, I enjoy a musical and, but I just, I, there was, I was also feeling

[00:49:01] the time pressure of, of trying to get as many movies in and it just, I didn't feel motivated to, to watch it. Um, and, and that's just me. Like there's just, you know, it's just a taste thing. It's just not the kind of genre that I, that I enjoy. And I was like, Oh, do I want to spend my time with this or, or something else? And then, you know, you would be a joke. You're like, okay, watch, watch, watch dessert. Maybe I will go back to it. We're trying to get our daughter,

[00:49:29] uh, to be interested in it. I, I, there was a lot to love about this movie in terms of the costumes and the production design and the cinematography. So, um, maybe if I'm not pressured, I'll, I'll, you know, go back and give it some more time. So I'm not ranking this one. I'm so I'm just going to leave it aside. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, for the ones where it is a favorite to win, um, one of them

[00:49:56] is best supporting actress for Ariana Grande. And, um, it's my personal pick for best supporting actress, uh, as always, Haldana is probably going to win, but if anyone upsets that it'll be Ariana Grande. And I, there is also people who say like, well, she's also a lead and wicked. I'm like, well, at least she is the second lead in this case, rather than the first with Amelia Perez, but a fair point taken point taken. Um, it is a big role, but she just Glinda is so particular, especially the

[00:50:25] way she's, I mean, it comes from the original books through the 1939 movie through, um, this re-imagining by Gregory Maguire and the wicked novel, uh, through this stage play, which completely flips the tone of that novel and to hear. And Ariana Grande manages to capture that entire through line of this character. So whichever version of Glinda you love, you will recognize her in this,

[00:50:51] but there's also people underestimate the comedic timing and just like the way she pulls off the mannerisms. Like there's a joke in it about hair flips and just the fact that she can just nail that just her physicality is so on point. Um, and also just to point out, you know, we, we talk about this more in, in the deep dive, uh, into wicked, but they sang everything live and everything.

[00:51:17] Really? Yeah. While they're like flipping in the air and dancing around the room and yeah, it's just incredibly, uh, it's, it's a fantastic technical feat of a film in addition to everything else. So that's why it is the other ones where it's a favorite to win best costume design could not take my eyes off the costumes the entire time. Just my eyes were just sunk into them. Um, best makeup and hair styling. It'll probably lose to the substance, which is fair. Uh, but you know,

[00:51:44] we've talked in that, uh, in the tech episode of the blockbusters episode about how hard it is to paint the color green on skin. Um, but just everything, you know, it's all about how fully realized the vision of this world is. Um, and the production design. Yeah. We talked about that more of course, but just, uh, which one small thing that I highlighted is that that opening in munchkin land where they're running through the fields. Um, those are all real tulips. And so

[00:52:14] they had to time the planting of the tulips. So they would all bloom like that at the same time. And it's just like these incredible epic lengths that they went to for the production design for this film definitely, um, where it makes it worthy and sound. Yeah. You know, I feel like a musical has a benefit in sound because it does require a lot of that. Just the fact with the fact that they

[00:52:37] were, uh, singing live and you know what, I'll put a, I'll put, um, a video in the show notes, a link to a video in the show notes as well, where they talk about how they pulled off singing live. And it's just the technology that they had to use to do that and make it sound normal. And, you know, uh, it's just incredible. Well, now that you're talking about all these details,

[00:52:59] I think I, I really owe it to myself to check out the film with a different perspective. I think my perspective was, Oh, I got to try to get as many of these films in and this one just isn't vibing with me personally. But then now that you're talking about it, I'm like, Oh, okay. Like I didn't, I don't realize the level of detail that's going on here or the level of artistry that's required to perform these things. So, uh, it's a good recommendation.

[00:53:28] I think you have to make it to gravity. I heard, uh, an interview with Ariana Grande on, I think it was an NPR, uh, show or something and how she was talking about her personal relationship to the property and into the role and all that kind of stuff. So it sounds like she really worked on it. And I think the other thing is that wizard of Oz is not beloved by me in the same ways maybe. And so I'm, I'm not connected to the storyline in the same way. So, yeah, but I'm,

[00:53:57] I'm really glad to hear that they did what they did because we've got another one of them coming, right? There's a second movie in the pipeline. Um, yeah, yes, there it's coming out this November already. They filmed back to back. Okay. Well, that was smart. Yeah, that was smart. Okay. Yeah. Um, and this one, I think is, so I should say, by the way, if you are going and expecting it to be like the wizard of Oz, this is think of this first part, especially as sort of a prequel. And like I

[00:54:26] said, it's from the wicked, which at the West is perspective, her, her name, she's given the name Elphaba, um, because L Frank bomb Elphaba. Okay. Um, but yeah, so it just don't expect it to be about Dorothy basically. Right. Exactly. Um, and if you want to watch it for yourself, uh, it's on video on demand, but I think it just is finally added to Peacock in the U S. Uh, so if you're outside the

[00:54:54] U S then check where it might be for you locally. And that brings us to eight times nominated a complete unknown, which is about, um, Bob Dylan's, uh, early career basically, and, and how he sort of got his start in the business and his, uh, change from the folk sound to the more electric sounds and some of his romances along the way. And, um, the eight nominations are for best picture,

[00:55:22] best director for James Mangold, best actor for Timothy Chalamet, who by the way, Timothy Chalamet would be the new youngest. He's 29 and Adrian Brody, who is also, you know, it's basically best actor this year. It's between Adrian Brody and Timothy Chalamet. Adrian Brody was the youngest best actor winner when he won for the pianist at age 29. Um, if Timothy Chalamet wins,

[00:55:48] he's also 29, but he'll be a few months younger. So he'd be the new youngest. Okay. Yeah. Uh, also nominated for best supporting actor for Edward Norton, who plays Pete Segers, uh, best supporting actress for Monica Barbaro, who plays Joanne Baez, best adapted screenplay. It's one of the favorites to win in best adapted, uh, best adapted screenplay. Um, it's nominated also for best sound and best costume design, which I'm kind of like, okay, but yeah, the costume design I'm like, really?

[00:56:20] Um, this one for me, it's, it's in eighth place, not because I think it's, it's a good solid film. I just don't find it as transcendental as others on the list. You know, it didn't, it taught me some things, but it didn't make reshape the way I think about things and the way some other films did. Right. Right. What did you, uh, you, uh, just got to peek at it. I think.

[00:56:45] Uh, I haven't even got to peek at it yet. Um, I think it comes out officially on, um, on PIVOD today, I think the day that we're recording and, uh, I, I missed it in the theaters. And so this is the one, another one where I can't rate it because I didn't see it. I have a feeling from what I've heard from you and from other people. This is like a nice middle of the road

[00:57:11] film. It's, uh, it, it, it is what it is. Like it meets expectations. You know, you see the cover, you get it. Um, so I, I plan on seeing it and I'll, I'll just have to wait to see how fastly I can see it, but unfortunately I'm not going to be able to rate it. Hmm. Um, I should say, you know, there are obviously there are a lot of people who love this and I love James Mangold in general as a director. Um, and if you are a fan or if you want to know more about this film, I definitely recommend

[00:57:38] listening to the international and screenplay episodes where we got a great voicemail from Nancy hand of the pod who has read a whole bunch of Bob Dylan books, including the one that this is based on. And so she gave us a whole lore bomb about, uh, yeah. Yeah. Like I, I'm sure this film does it. It seems like it's from what I'm gathering, it does a credible job of what it sets out to do.

[00:58:01] So kudos for that. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, future editor, Alicia here to interject. Uh, so later on this episode, you will hear a voicemail from Marilyn Arpikila, our favorite Tolkien scholar who is, uh, she'll talk about her, you know, what she thinks of the best picture nominees and how she would rank them. Um, at the time she sent that in, she had not yet watched a complete unknown

[00:58:27] and she since has watched a complete unknown and she really, really loved it. So since I was a bit poo poo about this, I thought this was a good place to, uh, insert that second voicemail that she sent, which is dedicated to a complete unknown, her thoughts about it and why she thinks it is a great film. So let's take a listen to that. Hi, Alicia. Hello listeners. This is Marilyn. And wow, am I ever sorry that I didn't see a complete unknown before I turned in my recording

[00:58:56] about my top three and I'm going to have to make it top four now because Dune is now fourth place. Wicked is third and a complete unknown is second. Wow. What an incredible accomplishment. It's really extraordinary, not just Dylan's voice, but the voice of Joan Baez and the voice of Pete Seeger and the amount of training that all of them went through to accomplish that. I knew New York in

[00:59:25] the 1960s and it was just so amazing to see it again, recreated the way they did the, the sets of the, the cinematography. There was one incredible shot taken over Dylan's shoulder facing a wall with a round mirror in it that was filled with Joan Baez's face. It just so many things. The reason why I'm putting it in the back of the show is that second, I think it went on a little bit too long. I think they wanted to

[00:59:54] incorporate all the big hits that they possibly could in telling his story up to the point where they stopped. And I think they could have done without one or two of them, but it did a superb job of recreating the 60s in New York City. And while I can't say I knew very much firsthand about that whole scene, it was an amazing

[01:00:16] show and I'll be pondering the character of Dylan for quite some time after this. So there it is, number two on my list now, but Conclave still remains in first place for me. Much more enjoyable story, much more well-knit together. Equally superb acting, but in a more subtle way. And again, visuals and cinematography

[01:00:42] and costumes and everything just really, really great. I'm just glad that I'm not officially needing to make any of the choices myself. Thanks. Thank you so much, Marilyn, for sending in that update. And so listeners, when you listen to Marilyn's original voicemail later talking about the other films, just replace in your head that ranking, she says there with this one here, A Complete Unknown is her second favorite film. So really glad to hear

[01:01:09] from the people who really loved this film to represent that perspective. Okay, let's get back to my conversation with David and the next film. The next one I know you have definitely seen, it's Conclave. Also got eight nominations. Yes. And so Conclave, it's basically, it's about the election of a new pope, which has gained surprising

[01:01:33] relevancy now that the current pope is ailing. So best wishes to him. I'm not a Catholic, but I have been glad to see some of the things that he's spoken out about. So right. And this one, we also, as we said, we did a deep dive into Conclave. So do listen to that linked in the show notes. The eight nominations are for Best Picture. It's actually, it's become one of the favorites

[01:02:01] to win. It is now neck and neck between Anora and Conclave for Best Picture. Okay. Interesting. And the fact that it's ranked choice voting for this category might help Conclave because there might be more people who have Anora at number one, but then there are people, like there seems to be an Anora brutalist divide. A lot of cases where, you know, someone will rank Anora at the top and brew list at the bottom or vice versa, but everyone is ranking Conclave

[01:02:26] consistently in like three or four, you know, so that could give it the win. And it did just get the SAG win. So that is a big deal. Okay. Okay. And it also won at the BAFTAs, I should say. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah. Yeah. I was just going to say, you could hear my complete thoughts on the podcast that we recorded. So I won't spend too much time regurgitating that. Other to say then, there's

[01:02:55] like, it has three parts to me. One is a sort of documentary aspect of how conclaves work and all these cardinals. There's this sort of political drama thriller aspect of it, of trying to uncover some sort of mystery. And then there's this beautiful recitation of faith and philosophy and

[01:03:21] what, how important religion can be in one's life. And on two parts, that film really worked for me. And then on the third part, it was fine, right? It was just okay. On the political drama thriller thing, it was good. It was nice. Yeah. But the other two parts really make it special for me. Yeah. So in addition to the best picture, the other nominations are best actor for Ray Fiennes, who is shockingly, this is his third nomination. He's never won an Oscar and he's unlikely to this time too. Oh, okay. He did a great job.

[01:03:50] Yeah, he did a great job. Best supporting actress for Isabella Rossellini with eight minutes of screen time, but boy, does she make use of them. Yeah. Um, it's a favorite to win best, best adapted screenplay, uh, by Peter Straughan. So, uh, it is a, one of the favorites to win best original score, if not the brutalist and conclave and, uh, the composers vocal Bertelman who won a couple of years ago for, uh, all quiet on the Western front.

[01:04:18] And it is also one of the favorites to win film editing up there with a Nora. Um, it was also nominated for best production design and best custom design worthy nominations for both, but those are absolutely stacked categories. So. Okay. Yeah. So it's got a lot of tough competition, but for best picture, it sounds like it's a strong contender. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I have this ranked fifth on my best picture. Okay. I have this in my above five category and it's probably going to be near the top.

[01:04:48] Yeah. That's fair. It'll be on the top side of that grouping. Yeah. Um, we also got two pieces of feedback about this and one is from your mom, David. Do you want to read that one? Sure. Uh, so email from my mom says, hi, David. I just finished listening to the Lorehounds discussion of conclave. It was superb in its sophistication and its sensitivity to the context of the setting. Oh God. Yeah. That's a high praise indeed. Uh, but the setting of the Catholic church,

[01:05:16] theological background, et cetera, your highlighting of the homily was compelling. And in my view, right on the trope of both and was also illuminating. Not that my mom's biased or anything like that. Uh, since I'm not a student of cinema, I learned so much about how the various elements contributed to the whole experience. I recommend to, uh, to my sister, uh, her daughter, my sister, uh, that she listened to it because we watched the movie together. Uh, didn't listen

[01:05:44] to the other discussions cause they're not in my wheelhouse though. I will listen to talk about silo when I've watched it all. Uh, love you. Very proud of the thoughtful person you are. Oh, thanks mom. It's always nice to get feedback from your mom. Yeah. No. And it's a very on point. Yes. I wanted to have her write in a little bit more, but I don't think she, she did, but, uh, cause I didn't want it to be just about like, Oh, you know, good job, son. I, you know,

[01:06:12] I was curious to, uh, hear some more of her thoughts about the homily, but I can talk to her at, uh, at the holidays. I think that those were, yeah, you bringing up the Holland homily and Marilyn bringing up both. And our two highlights of, uh, the discussion in the conclave episode, for sure. It was an enjoyable podcast. I will say that. Yes. And, um, we, we got another piece of feedback based on that podcast and just a warning. There's a, I'm going to be vague about

[01:06:39] what the spoiler is, but there is a somewhat of a spoiler in here. So if you don't want to hear it, then skip forward twice to hear us talk about a Nora. Um, but this was some feedback from Emily B who said, hello, quick fact check on the conclave episode. The one to 2% that was referenced is not for hermaphroditism within the general population. That's within the transgender community. According

[01:07:02] to a few studies, since that population is still relatively unstudied hermaphroditism or disorders of sex development, DDS, uh, DSDs are around one in 4,500 to 5,500 births. Just wanted to clarify great movie and good podcast. Thank you, Emily B. And, um, I did, um, so I checked back with her about her source and I also touched base with Anthony and then I did a little poking around myself. So

[01:07:30] what we found from that, she said her source is, it's something that she, a number she had in her head. She checked chat GBT. So we can't accept chat GBT as a source, but of course it's drawing from somewhere. So we dug a little deeper. Anthony said, Oh, very interesting. Of course, uh, happy to be corrected. He's the one who dropped that stat, but it seems that hermaphroditism in, um, quotes is only one way that might classify a person as intersex. I'm definitely not an expert here,

[01:07:59] but I don't think this is the right estimate either, but send my appreciation. So I dug into this and according to, uh, so the, the figure that Anthony got, I think this is the one according to interact. It's a major organization for intersex rights in the U S. Um, they have this figure that's based on a study by Anne Fausto Sterling. This 1.7% of people have some variation of sexual

[01:08:24] development. Uh, 0.5% have atypical genitalia and 0.05% have mixed slash ambiguous genitalia. So this might be these, these further classifications, um, it's more, yeah, that might be where this smaller number is coming from. There are critics of that study that says 1.7% that say, uh, that's,

[01:08:46] that it's really about 0.18%. Um, but those studies, they, they are expressly not including, you know, they're saying, well, that, that 1.7% shouldn't, uh, shouldn't include Klinefelter syndrome, Turner syndrome, late and said late onset adrenal hyperplasia. Um, so I, I'm going to go with

[01:09:13] the 1.7%, especially in terms of the discussion we were having, because if you take that smaller definition, then you are leaving out the very character that we were talking about. So, uh, in terms of people who fall into, you know, the category of the care, I'm trying to be vague and not spoilery, but in terms of people who fall into that category, that would be the 1.7%. So I think

[01:09:41] I personally say with it and what Anthony says holds, but here that's a bit more information about the background. I guess my only reflection on this is that we as biological entities are, our biology is complex and there is, um, a lot going on. And regardless of whatever's going on

[01:10:06] chromosomally or physiologically, a human being is still a human being. Yeah. And we need to represent and respect those people as people with whatever they bring forward, you know, or whatever they want to share. And I think that's part of the movie too, is dealing with some of that, that veil of, well, you may present in a particular way, but there's more going on. So don't make

[01:10:34] assumptions. And I think that goes to the heart of the film, which I also don't want to say because there's a word that finds uses in his homily that really, I think sets up the whole thing. And I think it applies in this case to our real world, which is let's be, um, what is, what does he say? Let's be subservient to each other. I think is that was the right. So let's be in service of

[01:11:00] each other rather than trying to, we need to study, we need data, we need all this analytics, but at the same time, there's still a human being over there. So be present to that human being beyond statistics. Right. Yeah. I guess is what I'm trying to say. Yeah. I mean, and I would say statistics are important and there's still a human beings here that we're talking about. Well, so I would say, yeah, that that smaller statistic is about cases where

[01:11:27] it's very like physically visibly obvious that this is the case and, and, you know, something that you would have been able to see hundreds of years ago as, as well as today, which is what's interesting about the film is we're talking about cases where it's, uh, not obvious where only medical technology could even tell you this much. Exactly. Right. Yeah. And we had that, I think with the Olympics and with the Turkish boxer, right, there were some things, uh, there as well. And obviously there's a big

[01:11:53] conversation that's happening in our, uh, in the, in the America, in, in the United States of America about this as well. And I, uh, yeah, I'm just going back to that thing of like people, you know, trans rights are human rights, right? There's no difference there. Right. Right. A human being is a human being. Right. And I'd say if you haven't seen the film and you're not quite sure what we're referring to, watch the film because there's like a 50% chance it's going to be the best picture

[01:12:21] this year. So just watch the film. And it's, um, I think that one, it's still on video on demand, but it's actually, it looks like it's quite well-priced. So like it's, I'm seeing only like $5 or five euros. So. Right. Yeah. Okay. All right. Okay. So that was a, that was a complex conversation to navigate both topically and spoiler wise. So, uh, I hope we, we, I hope we adequately

[01:12:47] expressed our feelings about the topics. Yeah. Yeah. So we're, we're going to pivot to the other most likely, uh, best picture winner, which is a Nora and a Nora is about, um, she is an exotic dancer and sex worker who she kind of gets a, she, she does the whole Julia Roberts, pretty woman treatment. Yeah. I mean, a more realistic version thereof. Right, right, right. Uh, with, with the

[01:13:17] son of a Russian oligarch and yeah, a minor spoiler here, they wind up, um, getting married in Vegas and then his parents find out. And then that's, uh, where the muse, the movie really twists on its head and polarity ensues. We used to might say about things like this. We come with several different things. Um, and then, yeah, there's this, we're obviously not going to spoil the ending, but then there's a tone shift back at the end too, which leaves a lot of

[01:13:43] people like sitting there reeling and thinking. Yeah. And so for these reasons, it only got six nominations, but it is the favorite in most of these categories now. So interesting best picture, like I said, 50, 50 chance with conclave at this point, I think best director, Sean Baker, now the favorite to win. If, uh, if he loses it to anyone, it's would probably be Brady Corbet from the brutalist, uh, best actress, Mikey Madison. It is very head to head with her and Demi Moore,

[01:14:11] especially since Demi Moore, Mikey Madison has been winning a lot of the awards, but, uh, any awards she hasn't, Demi Moore has won, including the SAG award. So, um, best supporting actor, uh, for Yura Borisov and he's not likely to win, but he's just happy to be here. I'm sure. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the nom is a big deal. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, it is one of the favorites to win best

[01:14:35] original screenplay, uh, which was written by Sean Baker, the director himself. And it is probably the favorite to win best film editing. And I should note that Sean Baker, the filmmaker, he does the film editing himself, which is fairly unusual for narrative features like this. True. And, um, him, it seems like that's the part of the filmmaking he would last give up because you know, it's the film is made in the editing room and you know, he, he really believes that.

[01:15:04] And he has this particular process he does where he goes through one scene at a time, completely editing and perfecting an entire scene before moving on to the next, which is interesting process. Okay. So I think people would be wanting to reward that. Um, yeah, this is one of my favorite films. Uh, it's my second favorite in the best picture category. What are your thoughts,

[01:15:29] David? I was not expecting this film. I will say if anybody is listening to this and you haven't seen this movie yet, do not judge it by the first third of the movie, I guess you would say. And hold on because it's kind of a rollercoaster ride emotionally and visually. And it is, I love it's, it's a, it's our dark horse, I think for the year and in some ways, right? This is the

[01:15:58] one that, uh, you know, did anybody see this one coming? I'd only got six nominations and now it's like the favorite to win. Yeah. Yeah. And I think one of the reasons why is, is it's dark horse sort of nature. I don't know how many other movies, other features Sean Baker has, um, as I'll talk about that. Yeah. Okay. Uh, you know, I don't know the, the, the film history for the director

[01:16:21] and especially that, that he, he directed it and wrote it and edited it. So huge amount of talent here. And then a lot of actors that we don't have experienced or would not have seen in feature before. And this movie just comes at you like a freight train in the best way. And then it does, it totally takes that a pretty woman trope and sort of shakes it up like a snow. It doesn't just flip

[01:16:49] it. It like shakes it like a snow globe. And then what you're left with is just sublime. There, there's just a, just an, it's just an incredible journey of chaotic, energetic, eye popping and sort of terms of its scope of, you know, going from, uh, uh, uh, middle class, you know, just

[01:17:14] sort of struggling, you know, to get by to, you know, rich oligarchs. And so there's this huge breadth of, of socioeconomic stuff that you get a view into that you wouldn't normally. And it does it with heart. It does it with passion and it really, it doesn't pull its punches. It goes for it and bravo. Like, yeah, it's so if you can't already tell this is above my five line

[01:17:42] and probably in the, you know, in the top three easily. Yeah. No question. Yeah. This is in my top three films of the entire year. So, uh, I, I am a big fan and, you know, I, I have been watching Sean Baker's filmography for a while now. There's, this is like, I think the fourth of his major films that, that everybody, you know, film fans tend to know. Um, he, he has been getting on the indie side, like the, at the Indie spirit awards, he's been a darling

[01:18:11] there since the beginning. Um, but he really started to break through and get more attention with a film called Tangerine, uh, followed by the Florida project was everybody's favorite Sean Baker film before this. Um, and red rocket is the most recent one. And, and now we have a Nora and I have to say, having watched at least those four films, his, this is just such a step up in so many, I mean, those are great films. Those are all good films. There's a reason why people are

[01:18:39] paying attention to him, but this is a step up in a lot of ways. Um, this is not his first film to deal, to look at, uh, the world of sex work. It's, it's a world where, and I should say I, so I live in Amsterdam. I used to be a tour guide in Amsterdam. Um, I used to work for Amsterdam marketing and yeah, just to be very involved in writing about Amsterdam. I used to be the editor of the vice amongst other sections at timeout Amsterdam. So I've gotten to know women in,

[01:19:08] and men who are sex workers here. And, um, I, I think this is one reason why I like Sean Baker's work, um, in this subject. Not all of his films are about the subject, but a lot are, uh, because he just wants to show that these are real people and deserve the dignity and, you know, um, but also he just makes it light and funny somehow at the same time, even though it's dealing with some

[01:19:38] scary situations in some moments. It could have, yeah, it could have been much worse in some regards, right? Yeah. And he didn't, and I really liked that he chose not to go there. Mm-hmm. He, he, he kept a, he kept a gate around how far this thing could have sprawled out. And I think that makes for a better film ultimately, because he did sort of set a couple of lines in the script. I guess, I don't know the plot, I don't know how we describe this line and saying,

[01:20:04] I don't know, whatever, but he constrained certain parts of the way that the plot unfolded. And I thought that was not only smart, but it actually lent the film a little bit more realism. Right. Where in some films would have chosen to go further with the action adventure portion of the movie, I guess you could say. Um, whereas this actually constrained itself to a much more realistic perspective. And I think that that

[01:20:34] served the film and kept the film grounded. Right. And I, and I think like you were saying in terms of, of people who are engaged in sex work and in, in, in, uh, exotic dancing and all this kind of, um, those that, that economic activity, as well as what that does in, you know, how that looks in a real person's real life. It's very grounded. Yeah. And I think that grounding makes it more compelling

[01:21:03] ultimately. Right. Right. Oh, by the way, I should say conclave is apparently streaming on peacock now, but anyway, and on video on demand. Um, but yeah, it's just, uh, Nora is, you can see it's technically a step forward for him. He's maturing as a director and it's not that he's, I think he's, you know, he's like my age. Um, he's, it's not that he's so young or anything, but you can just see that everything's becoming more polished. And also there is a difference in his

[01:21:30] past films. He often uses people who are not actors at all in the films. And this one actually uses, used the most professional actors, not maybe necessarily people you immediately recognize, but, um, I've seen prior films personally with Mikey Madison, the lead actress and you're a Borisov, the supporting actor. So, okay. So yeah, everyone on screen was new for me. So, and that was, that's gonna be a case with a lot of people. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that lends to,

[01:22:00] to the credibility of this movie, I guess, in a way, and God, I'm using credibility in the sense that not of its truthfulness, uh, from an objective sort of fact, you know, the sky is blue kind of thing, but I, um, there's a, there's a ethos in the movie. There's a, a central truth to the movie. And I think if you had had a Julia Roberts or something like that, that would have taken away

[01:22:26] from the truthfulness of this life of, of the experiences that these characters are going through. So it makes it more real. It made it more real for me rather than having a big movie star do this. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. And she, um, Mikey Madison, she learned to speak Russian for this. Oh my goodness. She learned to pole dance for this. Like, wow. She, there's a funny story about,

[01:22:52] she was on Graham Norton recently and she was talking about how she, um, she got a pole installed in our house so that she could practice, you know, she, she said, dad, this thing's coming for, uh, for me. I need you to install it. And he's like, okay, honey, whatever you need. And then afterwards he's like, uh, this is for a part, right? That's funny. All right. Well, this is a good spot to take

[01:23:19] another pause. And when we get back, I'm going to talk about my favorite film of the year. See you in a sec. All right. That brings us to my number one Dune part two, which is about, well,

[01:23:46] I mean, obviously it's a continuation of Dune part one based on the, the hit book. It seems weird to call it a hit book. One of the bestselling books of all time from 1960 by Frank Herbert. If you're a regular listener of this podcast, you may be aware that David and I are fans of this IP. And we've converted John recently as well. Yes. Yes. Aha. One of us. I wonder what he thinks about the latter books. Now we have to get them on, on,

[01:24:15] we have to, we have to have a, maybe a subscriber bonus episode or something like that where we can talk to him about his, his true thoughts. Well, so what's wild is that he's now like in the, towards the end of, of, you know, the original Frank Herbert books and he still hasn't watched this movie. It's fair. I don't mind that because it would color his, um, internal imagination as to visualizing the movie because once. But he saw the first one. So. Right. But then that was,

[01:24:44] uh, yeah, I, I, I still, I don't, I don't begrudge him his, his purity in there. So. No, whatever order you want to do things in. Um, but yeah, so there is obviously there's a deep dive linked in the show notes. Uh, we've definitely talked about this film once or twice before. Um, but the five, yeah, it was released early in the year and I do genuinely think it is the best film

[01:25:06] of the year in terms of cinematic achievement, you know, just in terms of, uh, the way it pushes film forward, you know, and the fact that it only got five nominations, I would say there's two factors at play there. One is just how early in the year it was released. And, uh, the second is the fact that everyone knows there's a third film coming. And we saw the same thing kind of happen a little bit with like two towers for Lord of the Rings. You know, people are like, let's wait for the third

[01:25:36] and throw all the awards at that one. Right. Uh, but what it was nominated for is best picture. Um, it was nominated for best cinematography, uh, Greg Fraser did that and it's not one of the favorites to win, but if there's an upset, it would be Dune, uh, same with production design. It's not one of the top two favorites to win, but if there's a production design upset, it would be from Dune. It is, uh, the favorite I believe to win sound, which makes sense. It's

[01:26:06] between this and wicked. Um, there's just some really cool sound mixing going on. Yeah. Especially with the Sardau car and every, yeah, just, and of course it is the favorite to win best visual effects. So, which obviously seems fair and it is absolute bullshit. I'm going to call it out again that Villeneuve was not nominated for director. He absolutely deserved to be on the director list. Yeah. At least a nomination for sure. Yeah. So I guess this is in your top half.

[01:26:36] It is in my top half, but it is not, I don't think it's going to end in my top three and maybe we can talk about when we get to the bottom, when we get down with everything, we can kind of maybe sum it up a little bit. Okay. Interesting. Uh, yeah, the, I have, I absolutely respect Villeneuve's

[01:26:57] creative, um, endeavor. I, I love the fact that there is somebody who is, um, uh, who is stewarding this property has such passion. I've heard some snippets and some short interviews with him about his approach and his love for the work. So I respect a lot of that, what it knocks down for me

[01:27:21] a little bit. And this is solely because I am a book reader. I don't agree with a couple of, uh, decisions that he's made about character development and how he's placed certain characters in certain roles. And that is for me from a storyline, because I am so intimate, that's just, that's just part of the game, right? Like this is my subjective, uh, view. And there's some other

[01:27:48] things that have a little bit more energy. All of that said, you know, the top three are, you know, the, the, of the top five. And when we get into top three, it's a tough competition, right? You know, or the top four, it's a tough, tough competition. Um, I will, I think I, I recounted this on our podcast when we saw this, there was a moment at the beginning of the film where some Sado

[01:28:13] car troops are like floating up the side of a cliff thing. And it was like that, I don't know, Simpsons like thing where like my eyes suddenly got big and I kind of went into a trance and I was like, Oh yeah, I remember this feeling. This is the magic of cinema. When a director can visually and and auditorily like offer, you know, what you're hearing and what you're thinking completely

[01:28:38] transport you out of your body and into this other world. He did that in a way that I haven't had in a long time. And so I absolutely do love the fact that this is getting big screen treatment. I love a lot of how he's visualized it. The ornithopters are great. Still suits feel, you know, like they're real, you know, there's like writing on the back of a worm is like a freight train. Like, yeah, I get it. Like I love a lot of that stuff. And then there's a couple of things

[01:29:08] with the characters that just, just knock it down for me on a subjective level. So, okay. Yeah. Yeah. It would be my, and that's not criticism, right? That's just like, Hey, we got it. If we're going to rank, right. How is this going to work? Sure. Of course. I mean, it is criticism, but that's fair. That's what we're here to do. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's not negativity. It's, it's critique. Yeah. Uh, I mean, this would be my pick for production design just because of the, uh, just all of those things that you were describing

[01:29:36] and Gaty prime that I talked about in the tech episode and just, yeah. Um, but I actually, I sat down and had a very short, just a few minutes long conversation with my mom about this film because she is the one who got me into Dune in the first place. That's right. That's right. Awesome. So this is what, uh, she has to say. And I am here with my mom or Debbie is people who are not her kids call her. Hi mom. Thank you for, uh, just for agreeing to talk

[01:30:04] about Dune with me. Well, you're welcome. And thank you for inviting me. One of my favorite subjects. Uh, yeah, you are the one who got me into Dune as a child, but you were into it before I was even born. Yes. I, I've been, I read the books in the late seventies when I was a baby and, uh, um, loved the first movie, the original movie that came out and, uh, can't wait to,

[01:30:33] I hear there's going to be a third one. So I'm looking forward to that. Um, the first one was not one of my favorites. Yeah. The first Ville Nouve. Yeah. Yeah. It was, in fact, I started it and I didn't even finish it. It wasn't until the second one came out and I was visiting you that we watched them both together. Right. Yeah. And I remember, I mean, regular listeners know that I also like, I think the first one's good, but I have some quibbles with it. And I was

[01:31:01] telling you as we were watching the first one, I'm like, just, we're, we're going to watch this. And then I promise the second one is going to be, it's going to be everything that you were hoping that this one was going to be. Yes. And you were right. It was, it was much better and I really enjoyed it. Yeah. So we watched them two nights in a row. And, um, the second one, you were even shushing me while watching, which my sister and I will say is not usual behavior.

[01:31:32] Well, you tend to, you want to pay attention, you know, I mean, so, so much action is going on and, and you just want to not miss anything. So I didn't want to talk. No, that's how I knew that you were completely engrossed. Yeah. And you were also, you're an Austin Butler fan and you were bums that he lost to Brendan Fraser a few years ago. Uh, so you were glad to see him back, but I know you wanted more. I did. I did. He got 23 minutes of screen time in that long movie. That was just

[01:32:00] wasn't enough. He did a great job in 23 minutes, but, um, yeah, I personally, I found him one of the most memorable parts of my favorite movie of the year. And I was rooting for him to get a, um, a best act supporting actor nomination. Isabella Rossellini, who's nominated for best supporting actress for conclave. She had just over eight minutes of screen time. So he had more than enough

[01:32:25] for a nomination and I think he should have gotten one. Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Just, it, it's just a symptom of, um, how Dune did not quite get its due. And I think because a, it was released early in the year. And so people were kind of forgot about it a little bit and be, um, everyone's waiting for this third movie. Right. Which I guess will be the final.

[01:32:50] Um, that's his plan, which is a little disappointing because I read every single book. I even went to his Frank Herbert son's books. They were all so good. Um, but yeah. Yeah. Then we'll have to sit and watch all three of them together. Yes. Yeah. I mean, I'm, I'm glad that he's going to do the third book. I guess, you know, once we get to, we always talk about God Emperor Dune is where things

[01:33:14] get, I would love to see a director try to tackle, uh, Duke Leto the second and the God Emperor Dune. Yeah, that would be great. Yeah. Any, any moments or favorite aspects of Dune part two that you want to shout out? I thought that the visual effects were amazing. Um, the details were more, I mean,

[01:33:40] the one thing I don't like about too many visual effects is that it makes the movie longer and you don't get to really feel, I mean, if the actor does a really good job, you'll feel a more, but it's not like when you read the book, you can see things in your mind and you know how they're feeling. For example, when he first rode the worm, um, you had that buildup inside his head of what he was going through and thinking and anticipating. And you don't see that as much, but I thought they did a

[01:34:08] really good job in the second film, a better job, I should say in the second film than the first film and having you really feel the moments inside and get inside the actor's heads and know, um, the storyline, feel, feel the storyline. Right, the emotional element. Yeah. Yes. Yes. So I like that. Um, I'm trying to think, uh, I think what I would have liked too is a little bit more of the love

[01:34:37] story. I think the, when you were reading the books and watching the original, you really felt the love story that eventually leads to children. And with this, it was more of a power play, um, more of a war story or, right. And I think that, uh, although it was exciting and well portrayed, um, I would have liked to have had a little more of a love story in it. I did get giddy when they kissed on the dune though.

[01:35:06] That's true. That's true. I forgot about that. Yeah. I'm looking forward to Messiah is all about the love triangle. Yes. Yeah. I guess I, they're just saving the, my love story for that, but no, I thought it was really good. I, um, loved watching it and I'm glad that you made me watch the first one first again, complete it. Um, but yeah, it's a great story. I mean, I just loved this,

[01:35:35] the books and the whole history of it and where it's going. I'm looking forward to the next one. Yes, me too. All right. Excellent note to end on. Thank you, mom for talking dune with me. You're welcome. That's sweet. A little circle closure there, right? Bringing it back around. Good. Well, I'm glad you, uh, you had her, uh, you shepherded her back

[01:36:01] through the first two and, and yeah, I agree about a, uh, uh, uh, a future movie where we see the, what happens? I can't say anymore. I'm like, I'm biting my tongue. I'm being very obtuse. Sorry, dear listeners. It gets weird, but awesome. It gets weird. Yes, it does. Cool. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, speaking about weird, but I think it's awesome. I don't think you agree. The next one up on the list

[01:36:28] is the substance, which got five nominations. Um, and the plot line of this one, this is the one with, uh, Demi Moore, Margaret Qualley, where Demi Moore is, uh, she is turning 50. She's like a workout guru. She looks like Demi Moore. So she's, it looks incredible, but she is fired by Dennis Quaid, um, who's her producer from her job because she's reached the age of 50. Um, right. Yeah.

[01:36:55] Yeah. Which by the way, Demi Moore, I think she's closer to 60, but she, I agree. You, you don't, you cannot believe that there's no, it's not feasible. And I should say that Coralie Farchier, the, uh, director writer, she was thinking she's in her late forties herself and was thinking about approaching 50 when she wrote it. So, um, but she finds out about something called the substance, which is this black market substance where you inject it into yourself and it sort of forms in

[01:37:23] a very graphic way. It is very visually graphic film. Um, you kind of give birth out of the back to a younger version of yourself and then you can alternate week by week between the older and younger versions. And of course, uh, that you, you're supposed to strictly follow instructions, but things happen. Yeah. So this one had five nominations, best picture, best director for

[01:37:48] Coralie Farchier. And she's like in the third place of most likely to win. Um, I, I should just point out the best director category. They never nominate more than one woman. Um, this is one of the closest to potentially winning. So do better in that category. But, uh, Demi Moore is one of the two favorites. It's between her and Mikey Madison for best actress. Um, it's also in third place for

[01:38:13] best original screenplay. And I I'll put the link again in this show notes that I, that I put in this screenplay episode, but, um, the screenplay is itself an absolute work of arts. Like just looking at it, uh, there's, there's a little less than 10 minute behind the scenes diving into what the screenplay looks like. It's just like a view inside Coralie Farchier's mind and also how they inter, how they

[01:38:38] translated that to the screen. Um, and the other award where it is most likely to win is best makeup and hairstyling. So what are your thoughts on this one, David? I struggled with this one. Uh, not going to lie. Um, yeah, I think it took me, what did I say? Two, two sittings to get through. Um, this falls in the category for me of films that are too long. Okay. They could have cut half an

[01:39:06] hour out of this and I think it would have at least at minimum, if not a little bit more. And I think it would have been a tighter edit. I really liked the initial approach of what it was saying about ageism and the beauty myth and what women go through to have successful entertainment careers. Uh, Dennis Quaid's character is, you know, campy and over the top and all of that.

[01:39:30] That's lovely. Uh, I'm really, I mean, I've known Demi Moore most of my life from, you know, on screen. She's been a constant presence. So it was cool to see something different from her. It was cool to see a horror film in the best picture nominations, but ultimately where this movie falls apart for me is at the end when it's all sort of wrapping up. And I just, I got into that

[01:39:56] game. You know, we, we have the, there's this phenomena where when we as individuals, at least I do this. And I think we've talked about this amongst our, our lore hounds, uh, co-hosts is when you start to check out from a film, you start to notice the seams and the construction. So I started going to spot the trope, you know, the game of spot the trope. And I was like, Oh, Oh, the fly. Oh, Carrie. Oh, you know, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. And, and so it, it took me out

[01:40:23] because I was just like, okay, two and a half hours, the hyper realism, the pace of the editing, it really started to take a toll on me. And again, where it started, I was like, okay, I'm interested. There's the movies saying something that's going to do this hyper realism thing and really shove some stuff in my face and make me think about and challenge me. I like that. And I think if we could have done that in two hours or an hour 45 or something, you know, maybe I would have a different opinion of it, but I just, the whole half,

[01:40:53] that last half an hour, I was struggling really. I actually, I actually played it at, at a like, uh, like 1.5 or like 1.75 to, to get through it. So that's, that's my personal experience. Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I liked where it was going and then it just ended up kind of not wowing me in the end. Yeah. I mean, I'll say this is my third favorite on the list, but I went in, uh, inclined to like it. I know a lot of people are feel like, yeah,

[01:41:22] it should be like 20, 30 minutes shorter. And I get that and it would be for sure. And maybe that's part of the cost of her having the vision so fully realized on the page. Mm-hmm. Um, I, I will say there's a lot that I, again, there's a lot that I like about it. Visually the writing, what she's trying to say. Yeah. I read a little bit about the, the, the writer and did she direct or who directed it? Uh, Coralie Fragé wrote and directed it. Right. Yeah. That's what I thought. I just wanted to be accurate about that. So I appreciate the

[01:41:52] fact that, you know, uh, I read a little bit on the Wikipedia page about the origin of the story and how she came to it. I, all of that, I really appreciate. Right. You know, right. I just wish it had been edited tighter down a little bit. Right. Right. Yeah. And I mentioned in the screenplay episode, I mentioned that there is a, uh, short that you, where you can see it's called reality. Plus you can watch it on YouTube and you can see her grappling with the same ideas. Um, I just, this is a film that made me go and watch. She has a small filmography, so it was easy to do,

[01:42:22] but, uh, I especially love her two short films. There's another one called the telegram. Uh, which is very different, but it's also great. Um, and this one I liked in our screenplay episode, Mark from the Academy of death racers, he called it sort of like a punk rock kick to the nuts or something like that. A punk rock scream. And yeah, it is, it is, um, one of the narratives

[01:42:47] and one of the reasons why, I mean, to me, more obviously does a great job. There's, you know, she just, she deserves to be nominated full stop. But one of the things that's especially, you know, as you say, you've been aware of her on screen, most of your film watching life, and that's the case for most people. But, uh, a lot of people are just realizing now that she has never gotten her awards due. Right. And she especially gave this great, uh, she won the golden globes, which is one of the earliest precursors. Uh, so it was at the start of the

[01:43:17] season before a lot of this other voting. Um, and she gave this great speech about just how she was told, you know, when she was younger, she was told that she was a certain kind of actress and she would get lots of work, but she would not, she was not a serious actress, you know, and she was not going to be taken seriously because that's not who she was. And, um, so that just that whole story resonated with a lot of people who are like, well, holy shit, it's to me more like that's,

[01:43:43] you know, she deserves her due. And she absolutely, she went all the way there. Like this is. She did. She committed to the bit as they say. Yeah. Yeah. She went all the way, you know, she, this is a film about, you have to have an actress in the lead role who's just stunningly gorgeous because that's the film doesn't work otherwise, but she was not afraid to get ugly also. Yeah. And I think that's one of the things

[01:44:06] that I appreciated about the film was that the writer and director had a point of view that she, she was trying to explore with us and that the lead actress, the lead actor, uh, Demi Moore went there. She really, really went there physically, emotionally, and what she gave us on screen for that quote unquote kind of actor, that pretty girl kind of actor to do what she does.

[01:44:36] In this movie was extraordinary. It really does. So I guess maybe my, I can see how my last, my, my feelings about the last half hour of the film have covered over the fact that, yeah, in fact, there was something really vital and important about this film and the actor sold it and took it there as it deserved to be taken there. Yeah. Yeah. Margaret Qualley should have also gotten a supporting actress nomination, perhaps. I mean,

[01:45:05] it was that, that, that is a particularly crowded field, that one. Um, and I also, this is one of the two where I am spitting mad. This and better man should have gotten cinematography nominations. Uh, I think that they just did especially interesting things with the camera. And, um, there's also, you know, I mentioned, I'll put in the show notes, these, the screenplay, um, video behind the scenes, which was directed by Coralie Farge also, but Coralie Farge also did a half an hour. You

[01:45:34] can also find this on YouTube. Um, just general behind the scenes about the movie, which shows a lot about the camera work, the VFX, how they had to plan things. It's crazy. Like the, it should have gotten a VFX nom actually too, for the practical VFX. I can see that. Yeah. There's a lot of practicality. Yeah. That's kind of being honored through this makeup, uh, award. It's most likely going to win, but it was incredible the stuff they did. So I really recommend looking up that behind

[01:46:04] the scenes. Uh, there's, there's movies. Yeah. Mini docs to get the full appreciation for this film, but I'm guessing this is in your bottom half. Yes, it is. Okay. But for editing reasons, I guess, and I will give it, uh, I believe it does deserve respect in, in a lot of other aspects of its filmmaking. So I don't want to just cause it's got a low ranking. Does it mean that it's not, I mean, it's an best picture nomination, like, you know, so yeah. Yeah. And again,

[01:46:32] it's my third place. So, you know, yeah, a lot of people really love this film, but it is, yeah, it's, it's, it's a, it's a body horror film and it goes fully there. I'm not normally into body horror, but this one is just so well done. And that's, what's interesting about it is that the scream, the squeamish factor of it, and then how it transports you over that into the other absurdist side, because it becomes absurdist at some point. And, uh, uh, so, you know, I, I had to

[01:46:59] kind of look away a few times, but then towards the end, I was like, Hmm. And then I think that's part of the central message of the film is how we're, how sensorially we're overwhelmed by media, and how we're, how that changes our perceptions of what we think is beautiful or what we do to ourselves to be beautiful. Like there's a lot going on in this film. Actually, when you, when you

[01:47:28] actually start to unpack it, there's a lot underneath here. It's not just a horror film, quote unquote. Yeah. Yeah. I keep thinking of one scene in particular, which I never hear anyone talk about, but it's what sticks in my head. It's not even just one scene. It's a sequence of scenes around kind of the mid turning point where, you know, there's a constant, there are consequences to, if you overstay, you know, and obviously there's a temptation for the younger version of herself to keeping the younger version of herself. She's the one building a new career and

[01:47:56] blah, blah, blah. And so, uh, she kind of steals life from the older version of herself. And the first thing where it pops up is you just see a finger that gets like really gnarled and, uh, you know, older, you know, ancient looking. And, um, and the rest of her still looks like to me more, but she has this one gnarly finger. And I just identify with that so much where, you know, she's, and she's supposed to go out on a date and she wears gloves and stuff, but then she's still,

[01:48:25] that just freaks her out and, and makes her pull back from her life. And I'm like, yeah, it's so it's one finger. It means nothing, but I would be exactly the same. And it keeps, yeah, it sticks in my head. Right. Right. No. Um, okay. So that, that brings us to a much more serious film that we've already, we've already alluded to before, which is I'm still here. It's from Brazil in Portuguese. It's

[01:48:50] Ainda Estoua Key. Uh, it is about a family who, um, deals with this, this, this, the husband basically disappears into the legal system and it's about them dealing with that. Um, it got three nominations for best picture, best actress for Fernando Torres. And if anyone wins who is not, uh, to me more, Mikey Madison, Fernando Torres is third in line. She's got a lot of love. She won

[01:49:19] one of the golden, the golden globes they give for two best actress awards. And the winners there were, uh, to me more and Fernando Torres, which was a surprise. Um, and a better win, and best international feature, but we've already gone through that. Uh, before I ask your opinion, I actually got a voicemail from, from Pedro who listeners to last year's coverage would recognize

[01:49:43] him from, um, I talked documentaries with him. He is a film critic. So, uh, let's hear what he has to say. He, he gives some context for how the, what this film means to Brazil in terms of Brazilian history and also in terms of, you know, the sociological phenomenon that it's talking about. So let's hear what he has to say. Hey everyone. My name is Pedro Lima. I'm a Brazilian film critic and I'm here to talk

[01:50:11] a bit about, uh, the phenomenon that is, I'm still here or I'm still here, which is a Brazilian film directed by Walter Salis and led by Fernando Torres. Um, so the film is nominated to three Academy Awards this year for best picture, best international feature in best actress for Fernando Torres. And she won the

[01:50:39] Golden Globes for best, uh, uh, actress in a motion picture drama. So basically it's important to, to say that this is the first nomination of Brazil in best international feature, uh, since 1999 with, uh, or for the East September, which is another Brazilian film about, uh,

[01:51:06] uh, the dictatorship, uh, for those who doesn't know about, I'm still here. I'm still here is a film about, uh, the Paiva family, which is a very famous Brazilian family, which the father, which was, uh, Rubens Paiva. He was, uh, kidnapped, murdered, and the body wasn't found by the Brazilian dictatorship

[01:51:34] in 1971. And he, the family just got his certificate of death in the nineties. And it's still, it's a case that it is still open and people haven't found his body because the military would take the

[01:51:59] people body, people they would kill and throw from helicopters in, in the sea or in the mountains. So it was something that it was like very common that they would do. And so basically the film is, uh, it's an adaptation of a book by Rubens Paiva's son, Marcelo Paiva, which is, which is a memoir book

[01:52:26] about his family, especially his mother. His mother is Eunice Paiva, which raised five children, uh, as a widow. And she became a lawyer very, very late in her life. She was in her forties when she became a lawyer. So basically this story is a story that speaks to the Brazilians as a whole, because of

[01:52:53] dictatorship, a lot of people were murdered. A lot of people are still, uh, disappeared until now. We don't know where their bodies are, if they are killed, uh, what happened. So it's a story about, about the dictatorship. And also because in recent years, as the fascism is coming back

[01:53:18] to the whole world, it is also coming back to Brazil. A lot of people deny the dictatorship. A lot of people ask for the dictatorship to return. And I think this book is a very important reminder of why we can't let it happen. Because a lot of innocent people was murdered. A lot of families lost their fathers, their mothers, their sons, daughters. So it's a very emotional film. It has a

[01:53:48] wonderful performance by Fernando Torres, which is, uh, Fernando Torres is the daughter of Fernando Montenegro. Fernando Montenegro was the first Latina nominated for Best Actress at the Oscars in 1998 for Central Station or Central Brazil. And Fernando Torres is now the second Brazilian to be nominated in Best

[01:54:10] Actress after her mother. And it's very interesting because Fernando Torres is a very important, uh, actress here in Brazil. She's, uh, a genius in comedies, but she also has this versatility in dramas. She does a lot of theater as her mother and she's in like poetry and she's also a writer. So she's like one of the most brilliant actors that we have. And we also have a cast that has like

[01:54:40] Fernando Montenegro, Salto Mello, which is, is also a wonderful Brazilian actor and Walter Salis, which made, uh, Central Station in 1998. It was nominated. And now, uh, it is his comeback movie after uh, 10 years. He made a documentary about Gia Janky, the Chinese director, and he spent like 10 years

[01:55:07] doing other things. And now he's back, he's back with his one. It was a major hit in Brazil. Five million people watched it. Uh, a lot of people watched in the United States and France, Portugal, Italy, Mexico. It is the building in other markets now. So yeah, the film is extremely important for

[01:55:29] dictatorship, but also for the Brazil has, has had a difficult, uh, past with Jerry Bolsonaro, who's a far right, uh, president that cut the, the money for cinema and for arts in general in, in 2019. And we spent four years like without money. And now we are returning to get funding with the

[01:55:53] new president. And yeah, this film is very special because it's echoes dictatorship and it has like a universal message about the dangers of theism and why we should, uh, talk about it and never let it happen again. So yeah, that's, that's it. That's, uh, I'm still here. It's a wonderful film.

[01:56:18] And if it is debuting on your country in time soon, please watch it. Uh, it's a, it's a great film. So thank you so much. And bye. I had, uh, no idea about her mother being that, you know, she's only, she's a second Brazilian actress nominee after her own mother. That's, that's wild. Oh, wow. That's interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I, yeah. And I think, you know, to back up with Peter just saying, you know,

[01:56:46] he's talking about how people in Brazil need to pay attention to this and, and be reminded, uh, certainly people in other countries need to pay attention and be reminded of, of what can happen as well. So I do hope people watch it. What did you think of this one overall? I haven't been able to finish it. So just a caveat that, uh, I didn't have a lot of expectations going

[01:57:12] into this movie. I think it is extremely timely. I think it, I was really taken back to, oh, uh, help my memory. What was the one about Auschwitz last year with the sound, uh, the family that lived next to. Yeah. Um, the zone of interest. So it, to me, it, it's sits next to the zone of interest,

[01:57:41] which, uh, both of these movies deal with sort of, um, these questions of the banality of evil and people just following orders and how this horrible and horrible, this horribleness comes about. And I love the way that the film contrasts this beautiful family. I just want to hang out with this family. Like they're having a great time, you know, and it's the seventies and it's this,

[01:58:09] this, you, you know, you have that sort of teenager, uh, uh, uh, I don't want to say naivete, but you know, they're just out living life. Yeah. And then they starting to encounter these things and then things just take this really weird, horrible, dark turn. And, um, it does that so deftly. And, uh, the way that they use the screen time of the family at the beginning really sets up for,

[01:58:35] for the emotional investment for later. So yeah, without having completed it, it's definitely in my above five line. It's, it's pretty high up there and I don't know how to, you know, it's got to land itself, the plane, so to speak. I want to finish it, but it also made me think about, uh, there was another great move, uh, television series on this last, uh, this year in 2025.

[01:59:02] No, no, no. It was 2024. I'm sorry. Uh, say nothing about the troubles in Ireland. And, um, so I think these are all really relevant and timely films and I would highly encourage people to see this if you can and let it, um, let it speak to you and let it help, help you think through some thoughts because I think there's some really important messages. Yeah. Yeah. Um, this one it's,

[01:59:31] it's sixth in my rankings, but then this is to say nothing against this one that just shows you the strength of, of the candidates this year. And also, you know, I, I clearly have a bias toward, this is very realistic and I clearly have a bit of a bias toward hyper realism. Correct. Um, yeah, beautifully shot, beautifully acted, um, the, his, the historicity of the film,

[01:59:55] you really feel like you are in the seventies. And, uh, I thought all of that was really great. Uh, yeah, yeah. It's a real, a true piece of cinema. I will. Yeah. And, and yeah, the cast is so great. As you say, they really feel like such a natural family together that it really gets you invested in their story. And I have a, a Brazilian acquaintance, uh, actually one of my, uh, um,

[02:00:18] fitness instructors at our local studio and just the, the warmth and, and bubbly need, I don't know, bubbly is the wrong way to say it, but I I'm just so attracted to Brazilian people. They just have a confidence and a joie de vivre, you know, uh, this, this just love of life and a love of being together, being with other people. And I really got that from this film in a new way. And so I,

[02:00:42] I appreciated it from that sort of cross-cultural standpoint standpoint as well, because I know very little about Brazil, uh, overall, um, both social and politically, as well as culturally. And so this made me feel a little bit closer to the Brazilian culture. Yeah, no, I, I do. It is said, I know this is the part about the Brazilian call. And also, you know, he brought up the recent, um, the recent Bolsonaro, uh, time and, and just also as

[02:01:12] interesting to hear, um, because we're going through similar things here where not just arts are being defunded, but just a lot of defunding going around and to hear that Brazil got through this period where arts are, um, were defunded and now, um, they are in a new era where there's, there's hope and there's more artistic expression again. And now here we have, uh, their film being one of the most top talked about films of the year at the Academy Awards and overall. So.

[02:01:41] I think that's, what's interesting too. This year's crop of films is, um, well, I mean, we had a lot of good international, uh, representation, I think last year as well. So, but yeah, I like that we have a horror film and we have a really strong international component. Like it's, I, I, yeah, there's a lot to appreciate with this, this crop, uh, this year's crop of best picture nominations. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I should say, I didn't say that, uh, if you want to watch Dune, you can

[02:02:06] watch it on max, uh, substance is on movie and also video on demand. And, uh, this one is still in theaters. Actually I'm still here in most cases it is coming out on video on demand. I think in early April, it's not even opening the theater here until, uh, right after the Oscars. So this has been one of the frustrating ones to watch, but I am fortunate. I was able to see a

[02:02:30] screener. So, um, and that brings us to the final film in the best picture nominees and this one, uh, nickel boys, it is about a young man who is, has a promising life ahead of him. He is black and that ends up, he gets mired in racism and also he's in the wrong place at the wrong time basically.

[02:02:55] And he ends winds up at this reform school, a heavy air quotes for that. It's basically a children, uh, children's prison or prison for teenagers where heavily segregated, uh, where there's very different experiences between the whites and the black inmates. Um, and that's nickel Academy. So that's why it's a nickel boys. And there he meets another young man and the film ends up going back and forth between both their perspectives and by from their perspectives,

[02:03:25] I mean, quite literally one of the most remarkable noteworthy things about this film. One of the things people talk about is that it is a films in the first person perspective from one of those two characters at a time. Um, it's nominated for best picture. Uh, it's nominated for best adapted screenplay. It's kind of in third place for a best adapted screenplay. Uh, so it's not likely to take home anything. There are a lot of people who are upset about that. It did not get nominated

[02:03:53] for best cinematography, especially with that whole first person perspective thing. But I don't know. I have to ask you, how did that work for you? The first person perspective aspect? I struggled with it. Um, I struggled with it until maybe the, the last third of the film where I started to get it. Yeah. And I think part of why I got to get it was that it started

[02:04:18] rooting itself more in a contemporary timeframe. And then, so I, then I was like, Oh, okay, okay, okay, okay. And then like it started to make, it started to reverse unwind itself a little bit for me. But I will say that, um, I, like I said at the beginning of the podcast, there were like three films that I struggled with, The Brutalist, The Substance, and Nickel Boys, all for different

[02:04:44] reasons. Like it, like it took something of me to, to watch this movie. Yeah. And, and I think the two things for this movie that were, were obviously the, the extremely disturbing subject matter and the, the, all the content warnings. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The horror of it, the brutality of it, just, just the, the inhumanity of it, the, just how unacceptable that. Right. That was and, and,

[02:05:13] and is, and the, and then the, the real world legacy that we're dealing with because of it. But then at the same time, and so then on the flip side, it's difficult because yeah, the, the way that the film was shot and the story is told is discombobulating. But then at the end, I get it. I, and I don't know how else you would have told this story that it's not just some, something, some other, you know, other film that, that deals with difficult topics.

[02:05:41] And so this breaks the framework out a little bit so that it could hit you. And I just, I wasn't, maybe I wasn't prepared for it. Maybe if I'd been better prepared in some ways to understand this, but again, it just, I just had a hard time. I did, you know, the, the narrative structure, was diffuse enough for me that I was really having to do some work to get through it.

[02:06:06] And I guess there's some balance there of if, if it had, if the through line was a little bit brighter for me to hold on, because I think all of us are probably dealing with the horror of this film, the quiet horror of this film, I guess. And we need something a little bit more, a little bit more of a bright line rope to be able to pull ourselves through the, the difficulty of this film. So we got his, his grandmother. So this is based on a Colson Whitehead novel and they expanded

[02:06:34] the role of his grandmother. And I think that was the right decision, but I do wonder. Yeah. Yeah. I do wonder if readers, I have not read the novel. Um, I wonder though, if those who have, if that does prepare you a little bit more also for the cinematography choice, because as you say, it becomes clear by the end why they did that. And, uh, that's something I think book readers would have been more prepared for. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, I was curious too, about that. How is, does this,

[02:07:00] um, film, does this adaptation mirror in some way what the book was doing tonally or, or on the, you know, because we could obviously do a whole different thing with words on paper. Does that, is there a, is there a match here or did they, in, in terms of the etherealness that the, the movie was trying to lead us to, is that present in the book or is this purely a, a artistic interpretation to,

[02:07:26] to disconnect us? Cause we have to be disconnected in some way to be able to watch this film. Yeah. Because if we actually confront the horror of it, you know, the same for I'm still here. If you actually confront the horror of this, you, how do you, how do you, how do you deal with that? That's, it's very hard. Yeah. So there has to be some kind of level of emotional disconnect.

[02:07:52] Yeah. Yeah. And so I have to say, I ranked this one seventh, um, just mostly for those reasons, but I, um, it was a surprise. This was one of the surprises to wind up on the best picture nominations list. Um, I mean, it was, it was kind of, it was in the conversation, but more people expected, for example, sing, sing. It's another film that's about a difficult topic. It's about, um,

[02:08:17] men in prison, but it's, they, it has more of that bright through line where they're, it's, they're all taking part in a theater program and, you know, it deals with the tough moments, but also gives you a lot more moments of respite. Um, and maybe there's something to be said for the fact that the Academy in, in this year of all years went for like, no, we're going for the tougher film. Right. And I think that's fair. I don't, I don't, I don't begrudge that at all.

[02:08:47] Yeah. Right. There's, and, and I think again, looking back to last year and looking at this year, there are some tough topics and I think art is doing it's, that's the purpose that's art does a lot of things for us. There's a lot of purposes. And one of the purposes is for us to take a hard look at difficult topics. Yeah. Yeah. And I think having these movies that do that is important

[02:09:14] and to have them recognized as a best picture nomination, again, important. Right. Right. Yeah. And I should say this one, it is, uh, on video on demand, but it's also going to be streaming on MGM plus starting February 28th. So, um, okay. So that brings us to the end of the 10 best picture nominees. Uh, how are your rankings doing? I have a ranking. Okay. All right.

[02:09:43] I have a, and there's obviously a couple of caveats here. Uh, I'll, I'll start from the bottom up. Obviously wicked and complete unknown are, are unranked. I think they would fit into the middle of the pack. They'd be around the sort of five ish, uh, zone. Um, so from the bottom up substance at number eight on my list, uh, Perez. And it's just because the last half hour just kind of blew

[02:10:08] the film for me. Right. Um, Perez or is Perez now I'm questioning myself. Anyway, those are two, my, my two bottom Perez and the substance. Then the brutalist at number six nickel boys at five Dune two at four conclave at three. And I haven't finished. I'm still here. So is I'm still here. Number one, or is a Nora number one right now? It's really, really tight. I'm, I'm, I'm thinking

[02:10:37] about my response to all of the things that I've watched so far. And if I'm just looking at the residual impact of the movies, those two movies are the ones that are staying with me, uh, as they, they're, they, they, you know, when you ding the glass or something like that, they're like, they're still sort of, there's still something going on in my head, uh, for these movies. So.

[02:11:04] Okay. Yeah. So there you go. There's the sausage getting made. Okay. I, um, I'm going to recommend three other movies for you and for listeners at home. If you can add them to your extended, your, uh, extended death race plus, um, two of them, especially I'm, I just feel really confidently that you would like them and two. And they also were both like, it was a shock that other films got on instead of one. I just mentioned was Sing Sing.

[02:11:34] Okay. Um, and, and that one is nominated for screenplay for song and for Coleman Domingo for best actor. He's my pick for best actor, but as we said, it's going to be between Adrian Brody and Timothee Chalamet. Love missing Coleman Domingo. Yeah, I love. Yeah, exactly. And, and that one is another one where they actually, it's about this prison program, as I said, but, um, they actually have, uh, they have, you know, professional actors like Coleman Domingo and mixed with people

[02:12:02] who actually went through that program. It's in, it's including someone who should have been on the best supporting actor list. But again, that was super competitive this year. Clarence Macklin. He, uh, is, was also one of the writers of this and, um, just did a phenomenal job. And he's someone who actually went through that theater program. So we talk about that more in the adapted, uh, in this screenplay episode. So if you want to learn more about that, the other one, we also talk

[02:12:28] about in the screenplay episode because screenplay is kind of like the consolation prize for, uh, for movies. It should have gotten, you should have gotten the best picture nomination, but didn't. Um, the other one is, is a real pain is the other one that falls into that. And that is the one with it's written directed and starring Jesse Eisenberg. And this one is the one, um, it has a very strong chance of winning best original screenplay. And I know nothing about this. Like I completely missed

[02:12:58] off my radar. It's almost certainly going to win a best supporting actor for Kieran Culkin. Mm-hmm. And it is about two cousins whose grandmother has died and they're just two completely different personalities. But I said in the screenplay episode, I see my, I see both of them in me. Um, but they, they, their grandmother has died and they were both close to their grandmother. And so they go on this Jewish heritage tour of Poland. So it also has an interesting, um, it's an interesting

[02:13:26] companion piece to, you know, you were just talking about the zone of interest. Uh, yeah, you also, it's like that, but from a much, I mean, it looks at that, but from the perspective of history and from a much lighter perspective where there's, it's very serious discussion coming up about, uh, suicidal ideation about religion, about, uh, there's one character who lived through the Rwandan genocide. Um, but it's also just like Kieran Culkin being

[02:13:56] really funny and like just the awkwardness of the situations of these two cousins who make things awkward in different ways and, and just some deep, deep conversations about a variety of topics. Okay. So definitely recommend. And then the third one, this is the one, um, it's, I'm only less sure that you'd be into it because it's a musical, but I think musical, I think just cause I've knocked a couple doesn't mean that I don't appreciate the form.

[02:14:24] It's, it's a lot less sugar sweet than wicked. This one is definitely has an R rating. Um, it's, it's better man. And it is about Robbie Williams and. Oh, is this the one with the monkey or yes. And the reason why it didn't get more do it is nominated for best, uh, VFX. And honestly, I would vote for it for best VFX even over Dune. And so go back to the tech episode. I included

[02:14:48] some links that with the, it's from Weta the, you know, how so is made to create, uh, the Lord of the Rings movies. Um, but it's just incredible things done with VFX, but it's also, and I said, you know, it should be seen a cinematography, just incredible, inventive, emotionally meaningful cinematography. Um, it bombed because nobody in the U S knows who Robbie Williams is. It did much better here in Europe, but you don't need to know who Robbie Williams is. You'll hear his songs.

[02:15:16] You'll hear, you'll know him by the end of the movie. I certainly, I was never like a Robbie Williams fan. And after this, cause he's kind of has an obnoxious public persona, but in this film, he is completely fearless in burying the worst sides of himself and taking a critical look at it and how he got to these moments where he said or did something or, you know, uh, and it's, and it just

[02:15:44] perfectly weaves in the songs. Um, like there's, there's one, there's this sequence in the middle that a lot of people talk about called rock DJ and they, it's this whole like dance number with this, what seems like a 20 minute uncut shot or something like that, but, um, some visual trickery going on. Uh, but my favorite moments were actually some of the, the, the quieter, more emotional songs.

[02:16:12] Like there's a song that, uh, he, he and his ex it's about their relationship and they just kind of sum up the key most important points in this beautiful dance on a ship that's intercut with other things. And it's just everything this film is doing. It's doing on top form, better man. Everybody should watch it. It is now resounding. That is a clear cut. Unambiguous. Unambiguous. Um, and, and about the monkey thing. So he says at the very beginning, he's,

[02:16:41] he says, um, I just want people to see me the way I see myself. And then, you know, we see him as monkey, but I swear to God, you will forget that it is a monkey in this role. It just makes sense. And it also makes him more likable in a way. And it also adds some extra context to things like, first of all, to the way he's acted, like perform like a dancing monkey, um, to moments where

[02:17:04] he's clumsy or, uh, gives into rage or, you know, it, it all just works better because of that. And I see it, uh, it's on video on demand now. I think, um, I, yeah. Yeah. I think at this point it's still on video on demand, probably after the Oscars, it will go to regular streaming, but better man, a real pain and sing, sing. Everyone should add those to their best picture

[02:17:32] death race. I've got them on my list. All right. Awesome. Awesome. Okay. This is getting to be a long episode. What did we expect, but let's just take one more quick commercial break. And when we get back, we're going to check in with members of our community who have sent in their overall thoughts about the best picture nominees and the races in general. And, uh, yeah, I'm just going to

[02:17:53] wrap it all up. See you in a sec. Okay. And we are back and, and let's check in with some members of the community who have, they're sharing their thoughts about the best pictures, but also just overall films of the year and, and, uh, what they think should have been nominated and what they want

[02:18:23] to win. So first let's listen to Lisa Red Zippy. She's been contributing throughout the coverage. So here is her wrap up thoughts about the best picture nominees. Hey there, this is Lisa, AKA Red Zippy 330 with my thoughts on the best pictures for the Oscars. Uh, as of this taping, which is February 18th, uh, we still have the Screen Actors Guild Awards,

[02:18:51] uh, coming up this Sunday. And, uh, the, one of them of course is the motion picture cast. And I'm wondering if that winner won't be the favorite to win the Oscar. Um, I would love to see Wicked or Conclave win at SAG, but who knows? If Anora wins at SAG, it's going to win best picture at the Oscars. Um, I still have not seen Nickel Boys nor I'm Still Here, but I can comment on the

[02:19:20] others in the list and some of my favorites that didn't make the list. My favorite films each year turn out to be the ones that I buy so I can watch them over and over and over. And a film that I want to watch over and over means I catch different things and different layers than the time before. And for me, that's really a statement for, um, outstanding storytelling and execution.

[02:19:45] The, the ones I just can't get out of my head. Um, so for 2024 films, I bought Dune 2, Challengers, Civil War, Wicked, and I'll buy Nosferatu. And only Wicked made the best film list. And Dune 2. With the preferential ballot, movies such as Conclave, Anora, and Wicked are likely to win since

[02:20:09] everyone liked those films. But all the precursors point to Anora winning. And as I'm talking about this, I think that's going to be another film I'm going to add to my collection. I really did enjoy Anora. Um, I haven't seen Sing Sing yet. And so many of my peers loved this film and hoped that it would be on the list. So those are my thoughts. Uh, pretty good list this year, but a lot of my

[02:20:37] favorites didn't make the best picture list. So alas, c'est la vie. That's all for now. Thanks for all your coverage. Bye. Yeah. So just to point out, Dune 2 was also nominated. Um, but yeah, she brought up about if Anora wins at SAG, it's all over, it's all Anora. SAG went to Conclave, as I said. So very much up in the air. Right. Very much up in the air. Uh, I'm always glad to hear from, uh, Red Zippy. She's one of our,

[02:21:07] cornerstone film people in the community. So it's great to hear. And it, and what she was, the way she was talking about the stuff and it kind of made, it kind of triggered a thought about like, Oh, should we do some kind of, you know, uh, fantasy football like thing or some kind of draft thing in the future? I mean, God, like, like we need more projects and more, more administrative work. I mean, I would love to theoretically. Yeah. Yeah. If we could work something out, that would be kind of fun. What are they, the betting pool kind of thing, right? Where are you?

[02:21:37] Right. Yeah. I mean, there is, there's red carpet rosters, which is sort of that. Okay. People want to look into that for next year. It's too late to join now, but yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's not like this isn't an original thought in that regard. So, you know, what could we do? That would be like a low barrier, but fun. And, and again, to build into a little bit more of the community, that sort of, uh, uh, just a fun bragging rights, internet points kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. What is it? Red carpet what? Rosters. Okay. I'll take a look at that real quick.

[02:22:07] And we do have a prediction contest going on the ESPN sites. So if you are interested in that, what all that's at stake is all the internet points. Um, but there's a link in the show notes and a password there. If you want to join the Lorehounds pool and we'll see who gets the most right predictions, uh, come Oscar night. Okay. Um, yeah. And let's check in with Marilyn also sent in her voicemail about her favorite films of the year.

[02:22:35] Hi, Alicia. Hi, Oscar fans. This is Marilyn and Alisa very kindly asked me to record a little bit on my thoughts on the best picture nominations that I've seen, which ones I like the best, hopeful wind, which I still want to see, et cetera. I will give you my top three in reverse order.

[02:22:57] In third place for me is Dune 2. I really liked the whole conception of Villeneuve, the visuals and the music. I don't know the Dune story all that well. I read all of the first book and half of the second book. So I don't have any contention of, you know, how accurate is it to the original stories, but I like very much the story that they're telling in this. And I think the acting is great.

[02:23:24] My second place is Wicked. What an amazing feast for the eye and the ear. I never saw the Broadway production and I never read the book. And the fact that they are adapting a Broadway production, I think, helped them to get off to a good start. But I do know they've made some changes and the actors are superb. The costuming, the set design is almost overwhelming.

[02:23:48] They really did a good conception of it. And I can't wait for part two. My number one best picture nomination is Conclave. It deals with a lot of things that are really important to me. Again, visually stunning, superb actors. The music supports it well. If you haven't listened to our one shot on Conclave, do listen to it because it was a really wonderful discussion. And Anthony and David,

[02:24:17] as well as all of us, of course, but the two of them in particular had good things to add. And David raised some points that I had not seen or heard before. And it just opened it up for me in no ways. It's that kind of film. There's just always more to discover and think about and talk about. As far as ones that I didn't see but I'm interested in, I really want to see a complete unknown.

[02:24:43] After all, how often is one actor in two nominated best pictures in the same year? Not to mention him being nominated or voted as best actor in the Screen Actors Guild. I really like Timothee Chalamet. I know that not a lot of people do. But I first saw him in Little Women and really enjoyed what he did. So I enjoy seeing him in other pictures.

[02:25:13] So that's about it for me. Thanks. And I hope that everybody is satisfied with the outcomes when they finally happen and can get a lot of sleep. I feel like the get a lot of sleep is directed at me because I've been doing some late nights with the, because the award ceremonies, like BAFTAs are great. They air almost in my time zone. But the other award ceremonies, I do some late nights to stay up and watch them.

[02:25:42] And I think, as she said, I know a lot of people don't like Timothee Chalamet. I'm wondering, is that John? Is she talking about John? I don't know. I think a lot of people like him. Yeah, I think he's fine. He's fine. Any other thoughts? Nope. Okay. All right. Well, let's check in with our third voicemail. This is the last voicemail, and then we have a written piece of feedback. This voicemail is from Danny.

[02:26:07] Hi, Alicia. Thanks for taking my voicemail and for all your hard work on the Oscar podcasts. I'm now two for two on completing the Oscar death race since I've known it was a thing, and have to say it's been a blast once again. And it's been really fun talking with people on the Discord along the way. It was a pretty good year for me for Best Picture noms. I really loved six of the movies. Didn't really hate any of them. And Nora, Wicked, and Dune are all in my top five

[02:26:36] movies of the year, along with Kneecap and Nosferatu. My pick for the winner for Best Picture would have to be Dune. Managed to stay on the top of my best movie list all year long, despite the stiff competition. It's too bad it's probably lost a lot of momentum and any chance of winning any major awards because it's been out so long, but here's hoping. Don't really have too much else to say about

[02:27:05] it since, I mean, we've been talking about Dune for a year now. Other than I would have really liked to see Denis Villeneuve get a directing nom as well. But a couple other quick notes, I guess. Some of my favorite categories this year were international films and both the animated and live action shorts. For international films, if I could replace Emilia Perez with Kneecap,

[02:27:30] it would be absolute fire from top to bottom. Here, here. Since there is no Kneecap, I'm definitely cheering for I'm Still Here. It was a great movie. Well worth the Best Picture nom as well. Yeah, I just, I don't often get so invested in the characters so quickly, but something about the way this one was filmed, it just got me right away. Just right from the beginning, going to the beach,

[02:27:57] to their home and seeing the interactions between the family and their friends. It was just instantly part of that family hanging out in 1970 Brazil. And it's always good when you get a movie about real life events that you don't know about, but it also doesn't feel like you're watching a documentary or you're just there to learn something. So yeah, I really enjoyed that one. I hope it wins

[02:28:19] international. Both the live action and animated shorts were really good categories that I don't think they had a weak entry. For the first time this year, I went to the theater to see both of them. And I strongly recommend anybody do that if they live somewhere where they have a chance to do that. Even if they're not trying to do the death race or whatever, it's just a great way to go out and

[02:28:46] see something or do something that you normally wouldn't. I don't think I'd ever sit around and for the documentary shorts all at one time. That'd be kind of harsh, but plan on doing these two categories regularly for sure going forward. I guess that's all I have to say. I hope everyone has fun watching this ceremony and can't wait for next year. Thanks. That's funny. A lot of people went to the documentary shorts package this year because

[02:29:15] one of the hardest films to find was Death by Numbers, a documentary short nominee. So I think a lot of people did sit through it, but it is a heavy package together, especially this year. And Kneecap, yes, if it had been nominated in the international category, it would have been my favorite too. So more love for Kneecap. Interesting. I don't know about that one either.

[02:29:41] So yeah, it's on Netflix. It is, uh, it was the Irish submission. It's about an Irish hip hop group. And I didn't even realize until the end that they're actually playing themselves, but I just thought it was professional actors. Cause like Michael Fassbender's in it too and stuff. Uh, interesting. And they do a really good job. It's just also the way it's edited and, um, it's just really well done. And it is, you know, there's, there's a lot of cursing and drugs in there,

[02:30:03] so it's not for kids, but, um, it is just really fun. Cool. All right. But also about the serious topic of, of language preservation and cultural preservation. Interesting. Okay. Well, I'm going to throw that onto a list of my, the list that I got there as well. Do you want to read, uh, we got the one written feedback from Davey Mack. Do you want to read it? Sure. I can do that. Uh, Davey Mack says, Hey, Laura Hounds, I'd swore I'd do better this year and try to get more caught up in Oscars films. Uh,

[02:30:32] scheduling has been hard and access is been a limiting factor. Agreed on both of those counts. Had a free Saturday a couple of weeks back, sat down to determine to tick one off this year's best picture. Instead, somehow I ended up watching the green night, which Hey, great movie. So I could at least mark down an acclaimed Oscar nominated film that I missed. All right. Uh, I'm just sort of skimming through. Was it? I don't think it was nominated. Was it? Uh,

[02:30:59] uh, I'm not sure. I don't, I don't recall. Anyway. Okay. Uh, but that's a Dev Patel one from the Arthurian legend anyway. Correct. Yep. Yep. Uh, as to this year's crop, I've only seen one of the nominees doing too. I do have a couple of shout outs to a few films. I did actually manage to see that are not on the list. I enjoyed challengers quite a bit and had a great time with Furiosa. One film that took me completely by surprise was the first Omen, a prequel to the

[02:31:25] franchise. I don't care about it. Had some buzz. So I put it on during spooky season. It hooked me immediately. I found it just so striking and compelling. It's so much better than it has any right to be in the wake of how things like Roe versus Wade being overturned and the direction in which States are moving. It felt like an important film for our current moment. Okay. That's interesting. I had not heard any of that, uh, critique before. I have, I have, uh, it's high on my rankings.

[02:31:56] The first Omen as you know, I, I'm, I love horror films, so it's not, and I do, you know, I've watched all the Omen films. Um, and I think it is one of the best Omen films. Yeah. Okay, cool. We had kicked around, uh, Omen being, um, a spooktober, uh, titled category. So, but most of the Omen films are not good. Well, we had some dogs in Poltergeist. So, you know, we had fun with it. Yeah.

[02:32:23] Anyway, the date continuing David Mack, the category I really wanted to chime in on is animation. Apologies for not getting it, uh, this in ahead of that episode. I've seen three of the five and have some thoughts inside out to as a sequel. I never wanted to my surprise. However, I thoroughly enjoyed it. Not only because they did a great job tackling something as complex as anxiety and move

[02:32:47] the characters forward in interesting ways, but it was exceedingly an exceedingly rare chance for my kids to get to the theater, uh, a theater outing with my mom. And despite having never seen the first one, she really latched onto it, both the film and the experience of watching with her grandkids. Also reflecting on it a bit, all of all the family films that get sequels, I actually think inside

[02:33:11] out is the one that warrants it. Similar to link letters before trilogy. I would have actually loved if we had checked in on Riley every now and again, as she gets older. Oh, that's an interesting take about that. Uh, this movie so impacted our fellow host, John, that he was all abuzz and wanted to like start a whole family podcast network thing. And, uh, you know, cause it's so, and I've, I've heard this from a lot of people that inside out too, is just really impactful. So, uh, it was,

[02:33:41] yeah, it was solid. I mean, I don't think it, you know, it's hard to do a sequel that lives up to the original and I don't think it quite got there, but it was a very solid sequel and I definitely recommend everyone watch it. I don't want it to win, but I recommend everyone watch it. Got it. Continuing the wild robot opened here in Japan a couple of weeks ago, and it was my kid's first trip to an IMAX theater. So it'll always be special for that reason. And what a stunning experience in that format. I really got caught up in the breathtaking visual,

[02:34:08] visuals and soundscape. I must say as a parent, a couple of sequences got me really choked up as well. But then I think the film sort of loses steam in the last arc and I find it overly talky in trying to get its point across, which somewhat a lessons, its impact still when it hits, it hits. And that's the favorite to win in an animated feature. Okay. Wallace and Gromit. I was hyped for this one being a fan of the duo's previous outings. I am a

[02:34:37] OG Aardman Films fan as well. So I'm curious as to what he's got to say here. And I do love calling back to the wrong trousers. Great villain, but for whatever reason, the magic wasn't quite there for me with this one. Still, it got my kids interested in going back and watching the old shorts as well as the superior curse of the were rabbit. So that's a win in my book. And don't get me wrong. I did enjoy it quite a bit, just not as much. I was hoping. Okay. That's good to

[02:35:07] know. Yeah. So Mark from the Academy of Death Racers, who I, with whom I talked about the international and writing categories, he did, he sent in a voicemail about Wallace and Gromit for the animated feature, which I wonder, um, I wonder Davey Mac if that, uh, hits on your quibbles with it at all. What he has to say about how it doesn't have the same personal touch to him. So yeah. Yeah. Cool.

[02:35:33] All right. Continuing flow opens here in March and we'll absolutely be heading to the theaters for that one. Memoir of a snail wasn't even on my radar. I loved Mary and Max back in 2009 though. So I'm hyped for this whenever I get access to it. And, uh, I have to say about those two are my two favorites. Flow is the other one that could win. And I really hope that flow wins because well, it's,

[02:35:58] it means a lot for Latvia, but also it's just a cool, unique animated take. And the cat looks like my cat. I have the flow cat at home. Don't be jealous. A memoir of a, yeah, memoir, memoir of a snail though is my favorite for storytelling reasons that I talked about in the animated episode, but sorry, what were you saying? Oh, I was going to say that the point of view for a lot of flow looks interesting. I've seen a couple of clips or a couple of still poster images and it's like, oh, that's an interesting camera angle that they can do, you know, with animation. So that looks

[02:36:28] interesting. Uh, continuing a couple others I'd like to mention that don't get nominated. Orion in the dark, a Charlie Kaufman family feature worth a watch for that reason alone. I admired it more than loved it, but I think that there's some really interesting ideas in there. This is an interesting phrasing here, Davey Mack. I admired it more than loved it. I think I'm going to adopt that phrasing because there's sometimes that I really want to appreciate a film for its

[02:36:56] existence, for the work that went into it. But then also again, it did, you know, it doesn't hit. And I think that that's a nice little formulation, uh, there of, of saying admiration without the love. Right. And, um, Charlie Kaufman, you know, it's just interesting that he makes a children's film because he is known better for films like the one we, we did on 11 Z's not too long ago. Um,

[02:37:22] uh, eternal sunshine of the spotless mind. Like that's, you know, some very adult films. So it's interesting to have him do one for kids. Right. And I, yeah, I, I agree. I feel the same. It's, it's in the middle of my overall year rankings. I thought it was good, but yeah. All right. Uh, I love the next one that he says. Okay. Look back. I don't love it as much as a lot of people, but it has a couple of extraordinary sequences that will stick with me. All right.

[02:37:49] But you love it. So I love it. It's shorts. It's on prime and it's from the same, um, people who did the manga for, uh, chainsaw man. So, but it's very different, very different, not violent. Well, uh, yeah. Continuing, uh, that Christmas, just a solid Christmas film. Yep. Thelma, the unicorn, some really goofy, fun musical sequences in this one. Haven't seen it. And now back to David Lowery being overlooked again. I was really impressed by

[02:38:15] the short and almost Christmas story. That was a perfect way to end Christmas Eve. Uh, these are all, I recognize these words of being English language, but I don't understand the meaning. So I don't know if you want to interpret any of it. Um, yeah. So that Christmas also on Netflix is a very solid Christmas film. The very, like I wasn't going to watch it cause I thought it would be too kiddy, but then I'm glad that I did. Uh, and I definitely recommend it too. It's a great one to watch with

[02:38:43] the family. It's a great one to watch on your own. Um, I haven't watched Thelma and the unicorn can't speak to that one. An almost Christmas story was almost got the nom. Like it was predicted. It could have been one that got the, one of the nominations, but, um, I'm personally feel more strongly about the five that did so. All right. Wrapping up anyway, those are some of my rambling thoughts and I feel like I've gone on long enough. So I'll leave it there. Thanks so much, Alicia,

[02:39:09] David, and others in the community for all the thoughtful Oscar award season coverage. It's been a great way for me to keep up with what's going on, despite not having seen most of the nominees. Hopefully I'll have more time next for next year's crop. By the time that rolls around all the best looking forward to it, David M AKA Davey Mac on the discord. Thank you, Davey Mac for writing in and thank you for being such a long time subscriber and supporter of the

[02:39:34] community. We can't do it without the help of people like you. So we're glad to, uh, oblige. And the time to begin next year's death race is now because films are already coming out. We maybe need to do some, uh, mid season, uh, Oscar check-ins like to clue people in a little bit, like get this one on your radar, get that one on your radar. Mm-hmm. That's a good idea. That's a good idea. Yeah. So the ceremony, it is this weekend,

[02:40:01] Sunday, March 2nd. It's, uh, begins at 7 PM Eastern time, U S Eastern time, of course. And it's airing on ABC in the U S but I saw something about, it might be streaming also in Hulu and or Disney plus this year. Um, there and in other countries, I know it's, it's in different places in other countries in some places like Brazil. I know it's on HBO max. So I'll put a link in the

[02:40:26] show notes where you can check, uh, where it is airing in your country. Um, the host is going to be Conan O'Brien, which I think is great. Okay. Did, did you see anything about the music lineup? Um, we talked about that in our intro episode, but now they've revealed some of the names. No, no, I haven't been paying attention to that news. So. So, uh, unsurprisingly the, um, Ariana Grande and Cynthia Erivo are going to do something from

[02:40:54] wicked. That's to be expected. I was kind of hoping Timothy Chalamet would do some Bob Dylan. They haven't said anything about that, but I'm still crossing my fingers for, um, for, you know, a surprise in that front. Okay. It's so, yeah, they decided not to do the nominated songs because I guess, um, I begin to see why when I see the other people chosen who are, it's very pop focused. So we, we have Lisa of Blackpink, we have Doja Cat. Oh my God, my daughter, our daughter is

[02:41:22] so into Blackpink right now. And Lisa. Oh, well, there you go. She's watching, she keeps watching this, uh, documentary about Blackpink that I saw on Netflix or something like that. Like she's just been, she's watching it like the last three nights in a row. So. Okay. And I didn't realize actually this is, um, she's in this season. Lisa is in this season of the white Lotus. Oh, really? Oh, no. I got to go look that up now. Okay. Anyway, carry on. And, uh, yeah. Queen Latifah and I

[02:41:49] don't, Ray, I don't even know who Ray is. I'm sorry, but it's, I, I, I have to say from my perspective, I'm like, okay, I understand you want to broaden the appeal, but they better keep the musical performance. Oh, she's Mook in White Lotus. She's the, uh, she's the hotel attendant that's having. Oh, right. Oh, her hair's lighter in this picture. So I didn't recognize her at first, but good call. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Um. Anyway, sorry. Yeah. Carry on. But yeah,

[02:42:15] no, I just, uh, I, I just hope that the, that they still keep the performances bound to movies because yes, I understand you want to broaden your appeal and bring in younger viewers, but, um, this is about movies. So these songs from random people who are not nominated better be related to the movies. So I, I, I withhold judgment on this change to the music format this year.

[02:42:40] Okay. Fair enough. Yeah. And also, yeah, we talked a bit about the panel presenters, uh, in our intro episode, but we've since learned they are definitely not going to be doing the acting categories again, because they did that last year, they're going to do directing and they're going to do some other craft categories. They haven't said which ones, but that's basically where they have past winners there to, um, to announce the, the new nominees and sort of, you know, talk them up and talk the category up.

[02:43:05] And yeah. Right. So it'll be interesting. Um, we've decided we did the live chat on discord last year. So we'll open that up again so we can live chat as Oscars are airing on the discord. We won't be screening it for legal reasons, but we will be chatting there. So we'd love if you want to join us, uh, that discord links as always in the link tree in the show notes. Yeah. And, and I don't know, David, are we going to do maybe a like half hour reaction up afterwards?

[02:43:33] Oh, it could maybe a subscriber, um, thing or something. Yeah. Could be. Okay. Yeah. Well, we, we want to hear your thoughts about, uh, all of the coverage. We want to hear what you think about this year's format versus last year's format. We want to hear what you, uh, think about all the films and what you think of the ceremony. So please email all of that to Oscars at the lorehounds.com. And of course the rest of the network's very busy severance going strong on the separate feed for anyone who doesn't know, but I think based on the numbers,

[02:44:01] people have found that feed. Yes, it worked and, uh, it's been going well. And, uh, yeah, we're coming up at the time of this recording for episode seven. So it's hard to believe that we're almost, uh, almost done with it. Uh, so hopefully it's going to start to pick up some speed here and we're going to see some eight or 10. It's 10, right? Or we're at, yeah, it's 10. It's 10 episodes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But, uh, yeah, it's been really fun to podcast with Anthony and Steve and,

[02:44:27] and all that's going well. So, yeah. And we've got some cool bonus conversations. We've had Mark and Nicole and Anthony's talk, uh, with a philosopher and ethicist, Jason, who you might've heard on the alien podcast. I'm going to be talking to Aisha from every single sci-fi film ever, as well as Ian from the captain's pod. I want to get their sort of points of view on, um, severance as a genre,

[02:44:51] a piece of the, you know, uh, literature of, uh, the sci-fi genre. So we're going to be doing that. That's so that'll be another one of our bonus episodes. So if you're interested in a non-subscription ad-free plus bonus episodes feed for five bucks, you can do that. There's a, in the show notes, there's a link for that. Right. And in the link tree, in the link tree. And we should say that

[02:45:16] we've already, because it's been requested, we've already started to set up, uh, we're going to have the full season pass for the wheel of time. And that's already been set up because it's already being requested. So there's an episode in there. There is the beginning of the show guide in there, but we are going to do yeah. Full coverage with lower casts with, um, with the weekly show guides. So, uh, watch out for the wheel of time. Uh, subscribers though, you don't need to get these

[02:45:42] season passes because you already get access to all of these severance, extra severance episodes, extra wheel of time content. Plus a second breakfast. We just recorded second breakfast. I got a little emotional personal there. Um, that's what second breakfast is about though, right? It's, uh, it's our, our real lives. That's how the sausage is made podcast. Yeah. Um, and we're recording this week, our 11 Z's it was a Lynch theme and we ended up, uh, they vote went to a racer head Lynch's first film.

[02:46:11] John just posted a screenshot from the movie in our private, uh, chat and he's like, what the hell is going on here? I'm going to watch it tomorrow. So it's fresh when we record. Yeah. I've got it scheduled for tonight actually. Okay. I have a documentary to a razor head stories. I'm going to watch with it. Oh, cool. Good. That'll help. That'll be really helpful. Yeah. Um, and also coming up soon for subscribers only is, uh, well, we talked about the, the feedback from

[02:46:38] the response to the Oscars, but also John and I are doing a daredevil prep episode where we look back on the Netflix defenders first series. And basically we're going to remind you what happened and, uh, just what you need to keep in mind for the new show, but public feed still very busy. Uh, you know, obviously I'm going to stop flooding you with Oscar content. Now this is the end,

[02:47:05] but there's still some really in stories. There's a Lord hounds play Indiana Jones episode coming up. Uh, you did the recent, uh, Saturday night live 50th episode. That was a crossover. It was, there's two different episodes in both. Just go to, just go to nevermind the music's feed and listen to it there. Yeah. Okay. We did it. We, we sort of had a front teaser on ours to get traffic over to nevermind the music, but just go, we'll listen to the whole episode over there. Mark and Nicole and I, uh, talk about

[02:47:31] the music, uh, aspect. So SNL put out a documentary about the musical history of Saturday night live. And that we talk about that episode and we have a lot of fun and we, we break down a whole bunch of, uh, different aspects of it. So, um, it was a really, that was a cool podcast to produce, but it was also just a really fascinating look into the impact of the music of Saturday night live.

[02:47:56] So even if you're not a Saturday night live watcher, a lot of our cultural conversation is sourced out of Saturday night live, uh, especially around the music. So. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, you'll find the links to nevermind the music, which in general is about where psychology meets music. Um, you'll find that in the link tree as well as the other affiliates like radioactive ramblings is currently covering, uh, invincible, uh, my own will shift dust. And now that, now that I've finished the

[02:48:24] Oscar stuff, we are kicking off our Dune adaptation series coverage, star Wars Canon timeline podcast, of course. And, um, yeah, coming up on, on the public lore hounds feed, we've got daredevil coverage coming the wheel of time coverage coming white Lotus, daredevil and white Lotus. We're not going to be able to do every episode because we are human and also we we've got the, um, the last of us and we're figuring out how to handle now that we just found out that Andor

[02:48:53] is dropping three episodes a week, four weeks in a row. We've got a, uh, John proposed an innovative solution. So. Yeah. We're working on the details. We will, uh, let you guys know, but it should be fun. We're going to get some guerrilla tactics going on this one. Makes all Guerrero proud of us. We also have a doctor who dropping at the same time. So we're still figuring out what to do about that. Again, working on an idea. So yeah, working on an idea. Yeah. So all that in the link tree,

[02:49:20] including the discord where there's forums and chats for all of the above and, uh, look under current shows for right now, there's an award season chat and, uh, we will add this weekend. We will bump up the live chat, uh, to the current shows there as well so that you can join us to talk Oscars. Yeah. Um, I have some music queued up. Do you want to read out some thank yous? Sure. We better get out of here really quick too, because we're approaching the three hour mark.

[02:49:50] I know this was supposed to make this go faster, but all right. We cannot break that three hour. We got to, we're going to stay inside it. All right, here we go. From, from the synth wave, uh, folder. This is projection seven. Nice in the flow. Discord server boosters, Aaron K, Tiller the Thriller, Dork of the Ninjas,

[02:50:14] Doove71, Athena Adjalea, Tina, LaStu, Nancy M, Ghost of Perdition, and Radioactive Richard all donate their discord nitro bits to us to make a more fun and interactive community, uh, server for our, uh, our community on there. So thank you all so much for doing that. Thanks for looking out after, after your community. To our lore masters, our top tier subscribers who without your support,

[02:50:40] we couldn't get it done. So Samarshan, Michael G, Michelle E, Brian P, SC, Peter OH, Bettina W, Adam S, Nancy M, Doove71, Brian8063, Oozol, Frederick H, Sarah L, Gareth C, Matthew M, Sarah M, Andra B, Kwong Yu, Dead Eye Jedi Bob, Nathan T, Alex V, Sub-Zero, Aaron K, Dally V,

[02:51:10] Mothership61, Narls, Kathy W, LaStu, Jeffrey B, Elisa Yu, Neil F, Ben B, Scott F, Stephen N, Julia F, Kali S, Ilmaril, and Forever Last, and much missed, Adrian. Thank you all so very much. Thanks to everyone who subscribes, no matter whether you're season pass only or you're whatever tier

[02:51:36] of subscription, we really couldn't do it without you. And it means a lot for us to have your ongoing and continued support. So thank you each and everyone. And the Oscar goes to you guys all for listening. Pleased to share this episode with anyone else you think won. Saw the inside intel into the Best Picture nominees at the Oscar and the rest of the series, of course. And if you can leave a review wherever you're listening, if you enjoyed this and mention our Oscars coverage,

[02:52:04] that would be a huge help as well. Hope to see you on the Discord to chat Oscars live this Sunday. Thank you.

[02:52:34] Thanks for listening. Hey everyone, David here. Severance is back. The Lorehounds are partnering with Properly Howard to bring you in-depth weekly coverage of Season 2. Join me, John, Anthony, and Steve as we unpack every

[02:52:58] twist, theory, and revelation. We've created a dedicated feed just for our Severance coverage. Simply search for Severance Lorehounds in your podcast app, or find the direct link in our link tree. Our weekly episodes dig deep into the show's mysteries, themes, and bigger questions about identity and consciousness

[02:53:21] that make Severance so compelling. Season Pass and regular community subscribers get ad-free access to our weekly episodes, plus exclusive content like our Supply Closet bonus series, featuring fascinating conversations with experts like the team from Nevermind the Music. We've explored the neuroscience of memory and personality, decoded the hidden meanings in the show's musical themes, and there's much more to come.

[02:53:49] You'll also get Steve and Anthony's complete Season 1 rewatch series. We believe in total transparency with our listeners, and unlike Mammalians Nurturable, we're happy to share all of our secrets. Find the link for the Severance feed in the show notes below, or search Severance Lorehounds wherever you get your podcasts. Come theorize with us about what's really happening at Lumen.